Splits removed from Fitness Mandatories

[Julie Lohre]

I have to say how dissapointed I am to hear that the center splits will be removed as a mandatory requirement for the 45 second pro fitness routines.  Why was this done?  To my knowledge the fitness competitors were not asked (at least I and my close friends were not).  It is  a difficult move, but so are 1 arm pushups...    Why take out center splits vs. one of the other skills???  You can learn to do them just as you can learn to do a straddle hold - each requires a distinct set of skills that make for a well rounded athlete.  Bottom line - the 45sec routine is a big part of what makes fitness a unique catagory and this round should be the most clear cut, straight forward round to judge.  To remove mandatory skills altogether would be a travisty to sport and really eliminate the need for the round.  Why have 2 fitness rounds if they are not really different??? 

Personally, I have always excelled in strength and flexibility and love to perform the routines.  I did very well in Pro Figure while recovering from an injury, but came back to fitness as soon as I could because of the routines!  Why remove a fundamental part of what it takes to be a fitness athlete? 

Many of the current athletes cannot complete the center split to the floor...but is that really a reason to remove it from the routines?  Or should they work more at that skill?  If I could not do the one-arm-pushups I would work more on my strength.  Sorry if I come off harsh, but this is very upsetting!!!!

And, yes, I know I need to talk to Jen H about it. 

My 2cents

Julie Lohre   

[onlyme]

You're sad.  Think about her.  She's hoping they don't make handstands mandatory.   

[Rick Lohre]

That wasn't really supposed to be funny was it? 

This is actually quite upsetting to a lot of the fitness women. 

I for one am amazed that they are removing the full front splits....I am also curious what was originally discussed to be removed from the routines that didn't get adopted. 

The constituency amendment would have been nice to have had in place before changing the routine moves though.  I heard rumblings of the Fitness routine changes at the West Palm Beach show and lots of the women were definitely NOT in favor of the change.  I thought it was a joke honestly.

Wondering which women Jen talked to about bringing this to the table.  Very surprising based on the fact that it seems to be the first step in watering down the routines....  One would have thought a change such as this might have been run by all the athletes competing.

Rick Lohre

PS - This is not the NPC we're talking about, this is the IFBB 45 second mandatory routine.  What I am amazed at is that now the NPC women will have a move in their routines that is mandatory that the IFBB women do not??

[Tre]

One would have thought a change such as this might have been run by all the athletes competing.

You've exposed the second main flaw in the system.  If a majority of fitness competitors are opposed to it (and such opposition is deemed 'reasonable', as it most certainly is in this case), then there's no way that such a proposal should've passed.

[dacof]

I think it is a shame that changes are made without the girls having a say...however, this particular change may not be so bad.
90% of the girls do not do an actual center split. They mask it well, but they can not do the split.
Since I did not see the girls that COULD do the center split scoring any higher then those that could NOT, perhaps taking the center split out is not such a dramatic change.

Again, I think it is rotten that changes are made without discussing with the girls...

[Ron]

At the IFBB Annual meeting - this was discussed.  This is where the change came from? Did Jen Henderschott propose this???



http://www.getbig.com/news/2006-04/061012ifbb.htm

13. The Pro Committee discussed a proposal by Jen Hendershott to amend Article 20.5 of the IFBB Professional Rules by changing the mandatory movements in Fitness. This was rejected with caveat. The caveat is that the Committee did decide to eliminate 20.5.2.f., the full front split.

[Hedgehog]

Seems like a good idea to remove that part.

IMO, they should remove the whole routine round and instead have a dip and chin contest.

Too few athletes are suited to compete in fitness due to the routine being about gymnastics.

Have one two-suit round and one chins and dips round, with the two-suit round points being counted twice.

It would also dramatically lower the costs for the athletes, make it a sport more available and attractive for more athletes coming up.

YIP
Zack

[Lift Studios]

Too few athletes are suited to compete in fitness due to the routine being about gymnastics.

That's not true. Adela doesn't have a gymnastics background and is the Fitness International and Olympia Champ. The routines are the most exciting thing about a show. Try sitting through a dozen or more shows without fitness and then see if you want to eliminate the routines.

[Hedgehog]

That's not true. Adela doesn't have a gymnastics background and is the Fitness International and Olympia Champ. The routines are the most exciting thing about a show. Try sitting through a dozen or more shows without fitness and then see if you want to eliminate the routines.

Laddy, re-read my post.

 I want to exchange it for a physical skills round, chins and dips. Those kinds of contests always pulls big crowds at the Arnold.

And look at the size of Adela. She's the size of a gymnast, very short.

Normal sized girls are at a huge disadvantage. Shorties will still be at an advantage with chins and dips, but it won't be as severe - the normal sized athletes are still in with a chance.

Also, I want to have only one physique round, the two piece.

This would make competing in fitness much less expensive as well.

Why do you think the Fitness Figure has in a few years become much bigger than "regular" Fitness, despite Fitness having longer traditions?

Make a change.


Besides, if I want to see gymnastics, I ain't gonna watch the routines of Fitness competitors. They're not even in the same ballpark as the elite gymnasts of the world.

Those girls do double back flips off the floor.

YIP
Zack

[Lift Studios]

I want to exchange it for a physical skills round, chins and dips. Those kinds of contests always pulls big crowds at the Arnold.

So you want to turn it into a schmoe fest? Where do you see those kinds of things at the Arnold... Someone's booth?

Who is a "normal" sized girl? Tracey Greenwood isn't a shorty and has a sic routine. Amy Haddad has a great routine and is much taller then most of the other competitors. I agree the shorter women tend to have an advantage for some moves and gymnastics.

Only having the two piece - no disagreement there.

You can't compare the two. The fitness competitors are usually doing routines off shitty auditorium floors not large size mats like the gymnasts you speak of. You gotta give the fitness competitors props for the moves and routines they are able to bring to the stage.

[Debbie Czempinski]

I have to agree with Julie, it would have been nice for all fitness competitors to have their say. I also knew nothing about this proposal/amendment until I read it on Getbig.

But I have to say I am not at all up set with the change!!! I unfortunately have never been able to get completely flat in the front split. This has nothing to do with not working hard at my front split (if anything I have worked harder on this than any other stretch), genetically my body will not allow my hips or pelvis to get into this position. Even at the height of my career as an international gymnast, no matter how hard my coaches stretched me, I could never reach flat front splits.

If a competitor can perform a front split well, there is no reason why they can't add this move to either of their routines as a flexability move. But you definitely won't see one from me

Julie, I look forward to meeting you next year.

Debbie.C.

[Tre]

So you want to turn it into a schmoe fest? Where do you see those kinds of things at the Arnold... Someone's booth?

Bitch, please.

[Lift Studios]

Bitch, please.

HAHAH. I knew the King would come out for that. HAHAHA

 

[Lorie Kimes]

I agree with Julie!
I was never asked about the change???
Keeping the middle splits in makes it balanced in having 3 strength moves & 3 flexability moves.
Just my 2 cents!!!!

Lorie

[jenhenfit]

Hey ladies,

Thanks for your concerns with the splits and mandatories.  I want to ask that you investigate the entire situation before assuming or pushing blame. 

First of all, I am still waiting for a list of emails from the IFBB for all fitness competitors.  It is very difficult for me to know all emails when I don't have them or have not spoken to most girls online.  When I contact girls I ask them to pass this on to other fitness competitors but this is not really a reliable way of doing it but its my only way right now.  The IFBB is working hard to get this information to me so things can be more successful.  This will help in the future, I am sure you agree.

Second, I actually tried to get all the mandatories switched for fitness but it was voted against.  Adela and I and some of the girls were ready for a change, it seems like we have been doing the mandatories forever.  So why not throw it out there to see if we can make this change and make it more challenging or less challenging for some. We need to create more interest for fitness since figure came about.  It was worth a try, thats how the action was settled was with the center split taken out. I can see however if we can make it "ANY split", that way girls have the option.  Thats fine with me!   

Third,  I have watched many, many routines and 85% of fitness professionals and amateurs can NOT do a center split.  I have had girls email me and contact me crying and stressing over the fact that they can NOT do this ONE move.  We need fitness athletes and if taking out a simple move saves competitors to stay in fitness and cause them less stress then its a start in the right direction.   

Fourth,  I am always willing to hear ideas, opinions, suggestions etc.... but I never hear anything till its to late.  Bob Chic, Jenny Lynn, Betty P, and I had scheduled meetings for all athletes at the Arnold and the Olympia this year and unfortunately NO one showed up from fitness but 1 girl! 

Fifth, I will be proposing items at the 07 Arnold meeting and your suggestions are willing to be heard.  Feel free to email me at jenhenfit2000@aol.com. 

Thanks and hope you are all doing great.  JEN 

[kszep]

I agree completelty with Debbie's post.  I could never do a center split in all of my years as a competitive gymnast with coaches standing on my legs:o.  I am a strength and conditioning coach and have studied numerous ways to increase flexibility and none of them have worked for me.  I practice just as much as any fitness pro so I am quite sure it is not for lack of trying.  If anything, my center split got worse.  It is a genetic difference.  Just as I am able to drop into a side split without a warmup and others can't.  As mentioned above, if center splits were possible with hard work, why would SO MANY fitness athletes be unable to do them?  I doubt we are all not trying hard enough.

Anyway, thanks Jen for explaining the situation.  I would love to become more involved in the changes that take place in fitness and hope that the IFBB helps you to facilitate this.  What mandatories were you looking to introduce?  Sounds interesting....

-Katie Szep

[Julie Lohre]

Jen - I appreciate you taking us through each of the points and I do understand that it would be very difficult to contact each and every fitness competitor in the IFBB.  There are many of us though that have been very active this year and it would have been nice to maybe contact at least the women that are currently competing.  However, I know this is a big job and am glad that athlete's reps will be getting an updated list.  By the way - I want to thank you for doing this job in the first place as I am sure it is unpaid and requires a good deal of your time.  I did investigate the whole situation in the only manner that I am aware of - I read the meeting notes once posted on the IFBB site. 

I really don't care if the skill removed was a center split or a high kick - it is just upsetting for the rules to be changed on our behalf when we had no say.  I would have been much more upset if the all the mandatory skills were removed!  Just leave the routine open like the current 2 min?  Some people may want a change, but just to take out skills with no direction for the routine itself would leave the purpose of that round in limbo.  As it is currently, that round seems to be the most clear cut to judge and I appreciate the direction of head judges recently letting us know that is round is about the skills themselves, not the transitions between them (be it dance or tumbling).  We have been directed to focus on cleanly performing the skills.

I am concerned if 85% of the current pros cannot do the center split since it has been a requirement at National NPC shows for some time.  They must have been able to do the skill at some point in order to turn pro.  If it is a real problem and is costing us fitness competitors, then by all means, let's come up with a plan to still demonstrate flexibility and strength while removing the physique (like the current catsuit which most of us tolerate for the purpose it serves but don't love  )

You bring up a great point about an athletes meeting too.  I was not invited to the Arnold this year, nor was I qualified for the O yet so I was not at either event (not enough funds because I would have loved to come see them!).  I did not know about the meetings.  Now, as an athlete I have the responsibility to do some research and do not expect to have information spoon-fed to me.  The nature of our sport has most of us separated by many miles and almost never in the same location.  This situation clear demonstrates the need for some centralized location for information and discussion.   While GetBig does a great job of this, it is still probably missing a few competitors 

I do not want this to come off as personally attacking Jen - I have the up most respect for you Jen and have always admired your incredible skill and your oh-my-God amazing body    It is important to make our sport as appealing as possible for new & current athletes.  At the same time, I don't think we should 'water down' the portion of our competitions that makes me feel like a true fitness athlete.

I would be happy to work with any one or any group that wants to explore future options for the mandatory 45 sec rounds if there is a strong desire to change this round (I personally like it, but am open to new ways of doing things).  Heck, I would be pretty happy with the no 1 piece round idea…

Thanks for listening,
A wordy – Julie Lohre   

[Chick]

Someone alerted me as to this thread, as I usually don't frequent the fitness board...


Let me start by saying that each and every athlete has a say on what gets presented by your representatives on your behalf...

Unfortunately, 98% of those athletes choose NOT to attend the athlete memeting that have been scheduled for the last year and a half.

Last years Olympia, Arnold, this years Olympia...all sparsely attended at best.

I posted all the info right here on this board, for all those interested...this same board that people are complaining on..yet, none of thee people complaining attended the meeting. I also e-mailed as many athletes as I have addresses for, and emailed each representative to forward it along to anyone they had updated info on....

If athletes want to start taking an interest in what happens in THEIR sport, maybe they can take an hour out of their busy schedule TWICE a year, to voice their opinions and have a vested interest in what the general consensus is among the group....

The next ATHLETES MEETING will be on THURSDAY evening at the Arnold Classic 2007...let's see how many show up THIS time.



Bob Cicherillo
IFBB Athletes Rep
IFBB Pro

[Hedgehog]

Just a suggestion:

How about a mailing list for the fitness competitors?

Through it, you could also easily collect and put out phone #, contact info et al for everyone on the list.

Why not?

Three questions for Lohre:

There is a decline in fitness competitors, many picking Figure instead.

1. What do you think is the reason for fitness losing competitors to Figure?

2. What could be done to get athletes to pick Fitness as their sport?

3. What changes are you prepared to back to get competitors back to Fitness?



YIP
Zack

[Hedgehog]

Someone alerted me as to this thread, as I usually don't frequent the fitness board...


Let me start by saying that each and every athlete has a say on what gets presented by your representatives on your behalf...

Unfortunately, 98% of those athletes choose NOT to attend the athlete memeting that have been scheduled for the last year and a half.

Last years Olympia, Arnold, this years Olympia...all sparsely attended at best.

I posted all the info right here on this board, for all those interested...this same board that people are complaining on..yet, none of thee people complaining attended the meeting. I also e-mailed as many athletes as I have addresses for, and emailed each representative to forward it along to anyone they had updated info on....

If athletes want to start taking an interest in what happens in THEIR sport, maybe they can take an hour out of their busy schedule TWICE a year, to voice their opinions and have a vested interest in what the general consensus is among the group....

The next ATHLETES MEETING will be on THURSDAY evening at the Arnold Classic 2007...let's see how many show up THIS time.



Bob Cicherillo
IFBB Athletes Rep
IFBB Pro

Seems like the Athlete Rep did what he could to get people involved in the discussion.

If he's right, and I have no reason to believe he's not, seems like Lohre has no ground for moaning and complaining.


Serious question for Lohre:

Why didn't you show up at the meeting?

YIP
Zack

[Lift Studios]

Let me start by saying that each and every athlete has a say on what gets presented by your representatives on your behalf...

Unfortunately, 98% of those athletes choose NOT to attend the athlete memeting that have been scheduled for the last year and a half.

This may be a dumb question but are the things being presented discussed before the meeting or at the meeting? I.E. An issue such as removing the front splits... Does this get discussed with the fitness athletes whether they support the change or does it get brought up to discuss at the meeting only?

Jen/Bob - Email me as I have a number of the pro's email addresses from when Kelly Ryan was the rep and I was attempting to help her with her efforts via her web site. Obviously, she won't be needing those emails any time soon. isaac@liftstudios.com

Isaac

[Julie Lohre]

I do not feel like I was moaning &/or complaining, just posting my concerns in the only place that many of us know to go.  As I stated in my last post, I was not at the meetings, because I did not have the money to attend events in which I was not competing.  It is hard enough with no sponsor to make it to the shows I am in.  I cannot justify the time & money to go if I am not actually in the show.  Not that I would not LOVE to attend, I just have to be practical.

Bob, thank you for posting here.  I would have to say though, if the meetings are not currently being attended, would it be better to explore other options for bringing the athletes together? (maybe physically is not the best answer)  Seems like more athletes visit various boards than any one competition.  Any chance of have a centralized info area maybe co-ordinated with the IFBB site?  Just one idea, I am sure there are tons of other options.

Julie

[Chick]

This may be a dumb question but are the things being presented discussed before the meeting or at the meeting? I.E. An issue such as removing the front splits... Does this get discussed with the fitness athletes whether they support the change or does it get brought up to discuss at the meeting only?

Jen - Email me as I have a number of the pro's email addresses from when Kelly Ryan was the rep and I was attempting to help her with her efforts via her web site. Obviously, she won't be needing those emails any time soon. isaac@liftstudios.com

Isaac

The meetings (athlete meetings) are put on for the sole purpose of discussing issues, presenting ideas, and getting a general consensus of what we (collectively) thin k needs to be addressed and whats in the best interest of the IFBB athletes as a whole....

If no one is interested in attending...then I (and the other reps) will do what WE feel is in the best interest of the athletes...simple as that.

That being said, I would like to see athletes taking a better interest in their own sport, not just sitting on the sidelines bitching about everything, or having ideas to contribute, yet unwilling to take a lousy hour out of their time to attend.

I've passed athletes hanging out in the lobby and the hotel bar, 100 ft. from the meeting room...yet don't have the interest to go...sad.

TO ALL IFBB ATHLETES: IF YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

[Chick]

I do not feel like I was moaning &/or complaining, just posting my concerns in the only place that many of us know to go.  As I stated in my last post, I was not at the meetings, because I did not have the money to attend events in which I was not competing.  It is hard enough with no sponsor to make it to the shows I am in.  I cannot justify the time & money to go if I am not actually in the show.  Not that I would not LOVE to attend, I just have to be practical.

Bob, thank you for posting here.  I would have to say though, if the meetings are not currently being attended, would it be better to explore other options for bringing the athletes together? (maybe physically is not the best answer)  Seems like more athletes visit various boards than any one competition.  Any chance of have a centralized info area maybe co-ordinated with the IFBB site?  Just one idea, I am sure there are tons of other options.

Julie

Yes, I've already secured a domain name, and will be putting together  "IFBBPROLEAGUE.COM" to have a place for alll athletes to go and participate in discussion, without fear of being on a public message board, or having anyone other than fellow athletes view their opinions....

[Chick]

BTW...here is the SECOND posting of the particulars, on this very board...as you can all see, it was met with limited enthusiasm...

Chick
The Pros
Getbig IV

Posts: 2554

sometimes you get the elevator, somtimes the shaft


   
   
2006 ATHLETES MEETING/ OLYMPIA WEEKEND
« on: September 07, 2006, 11:23:31 AM »
   Quote Modify Remove
 2006 IFBB ATHLETES MEETING/ OLYMPIA WEEKEND 9/28/06

A meeting for ALL IFBB athletes will be held in the “Showroom” immediately following the press conference (same room)

This is an ATHLETES ONLY meeting…no IFBB officials/ judges will be in attendance…spouses, etc. are welcome

9/28/06
3:00 pm
Showroom




The following program is scheduled:


* Old business

* New business/ 2006 proposals
∑ Results from B.O.G. meeting held 9/27/06

* Group Health care/ benefit program
∑

* IFBB athlete reps individual platforms

∑ Open forum





Any questions, concerns, comments, can be directed to my e-mail address:

IFBBPROREP@AOL.COM

Bob Cicherillo
IFBB Pro
IFBB Athlete Rep
   Report to moderator   24.130.119.222
Chick
The Pros
Getbig IV

Posts: 2554

sometimes you get the elevator, somtimes the shaft


   
   
Re: 2006 ATHLETES MEETING/ OLYMPIA WEEKEND
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2006, 11:24:37 AM »
   Quote Modify Remove
2006 proposals                                               
8/23/06
 
                                                                                               
Bob Cicherillo
IFBB Athletes representative



ITEM 1

AMENDMENT OF SECT 1.7

Amendment of section 1.7   of the IFBB Pro League rules. Athletes WILL be allowed to make appearances on behalf of companies they represent and/ or as individuals to: (including but not limited to) non –sanctioned events, expo’s, guest posing, appearances, seminars, openings, etc. As IFBB athletes are listed as “independent contractors” by our own IFBB by laws and therefore cannot be limited in their ability to make a living from being a professional.

Athlete would be required to be a IFBB athlete in good standing, and any and all promotional items, advertisements, etc linked to said event(s) would require that athlete be billed and represented as an IFBB athlete.

ITEM 2

IFBB TO MAKE ATHLETES EMPLOYEES

Upon denial of ITEM 1, IFBB to make athletes direct members of the IFBB (as opposed to the “Pro division”). Pro athletes would be paid a monthly salary from IFBB and subsequently, would be required by state law to fill out a 10-99-tax form for their individual tax purposes. 10-99 would be required from IFBB (employer) to IFBB pro athletes (employees).




ITEM 3

MANDATORY AMOUNT OF ROUNDS

Judging to reflect a minimum amount of comparisons per round to justify placing. Ex.) Competitor currently being considered for 3rd place MUST be compared to the 1,2,4,5 competitors being considered. Callouts would reflect comparisons with no less than 2 placings on either side of competitor. This would insure that a competitor placing 6th, by example, would have been compared to the competitor placing 5th, etc.[



ITEM 4

ROUND 2 (article 19.5) OF PREJUDGING PROPOSED CHANGE

Current round 1-2 ( 8 mandatory poses called out in succession by chief judge) to be replaced with 2 minute free posing round consisting of all 8 mandatory poses performed in any order, plus any additional poses athlete feels best displays his physique. Ambient music only in background. No individual music will be allowed. Mandatory and additional poses can be mixed and performed in any order athlete chooses.



ITEM 5

ABOLISH “DECLARATION” RULE
Women athletes to be allowed to compete in any of the 3 women’s divisions (crossover) at any point in the year, thus eliminating the need to “declare” a division upon renewal of pro card.


ITEM 6

INCREASE IN OLYMPIA PER DIEM

Article 3.2 of the pro rules to be amended to reflect an increase from $50/ day to $100/ day for per diem.




   
   
Re: 2006 ATHLETES MEETING/ OLYMPIA WEEKEND
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2006, 11:42:02 AM »
   Quote Modify
Good Luck Bob!!   

Some nice positive changes again.
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Just Bad Bad Blood!
Malibu Barbie
Getbig I

Posts: 42

Getbig!


   
   
Re: 2006 ATHLETES MEETING/ OLYMPIA WEEKEND
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2006, 05:25:54 PM »
   Quote Modify
A heads up to all Figure people!!!!! Your prejudging is Friday and your show is on Saturday night (not Friday night). I don't know why that is, but I do know it is the way it is. I sure hope they are not going to have you do anything dumb like hold the door for the men, escort them, or fan them. Well, many escorting them wouldn't be so bad.