Author Topic: Oh God: Now Obama to Apologize to Germans for Dresden  (Read 639 times)

headhuntersix

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Oh God: Now Obama to Apologize to Germans for Dresden
« on: May 08, 2009, 03:26:49 PM »
Barry's headed to kraut land this summer. He's going to Buchenwald and the to Dresden to apologize for Churchill's bombing of Dresden. Because the friggen German's were victims right.  ::)


He will be aware of the sensibilities of his German hosts before the D-Day commemoration and by traveling to Dresden — a city destroyed by ferocious Allied bombing in February 1945 — Mr Obama will also acknowledge how Germany suffered during the Second World War.
L

Dos Equis

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Re: Oh God: Now Obama to Apologize to Germans for Dresden
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2009, 03:30:36 PM »
Appeaser in Chief at it again. 


headhuntersix

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Re: Oh God: Now Obama to Apologize to Germans for Dresden
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2009, 03:36:11 PM »
Sorry for such a long paste...BLUF/Reagan visited an SS/German soldier graveyard as was roasted. I'm sure nobody will have any problems with Barry. One of my cousins' was a B-17 pilot and shot down and killed over Germany, another was crew member and sat out the war in a Luft Stalag. Thats just two that fought in WW2. Fuck Barry.

Reagan visit controversy
 This article may be too long to comfortably read and navigate. Please consider splitting content into sub-articles and using this article for a summary of the key points of the subject. (March 2009)

The proposed visit began as part of a plan to observe the 40th anniversary of V-E Day. As U.S. President Ronald Reagan was scheduled to attend a G7 economic summit in Bonn that week in 1985, West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl saw an opportunity to demonstrate the strength of the friendship that existed between Germany and its former foe. During a November 1984 visit to the White House, Kohl appealed to Reagan to join him in symbolizing the reconciliation of their two countries at a German military cemetery. It was suggested that the Kolmeshöhe Cemetery near Bitburg was both suitably close and relevant, as 11,000 Americans attached to a nearby airbase lived in harmony with the same number of Germans. Reagan agreed, and later told an aide he felt he owed Kohl, who despite considerable public and political opposition had stood steadfast with Reagan on the deployment of Pershing II missiles in West Germany, when Reagan had been determined to respond to the placement of Soviet missiles that threatened Europe.


[edit] Planning
In February 1985, then White House deputy chief of staff Michael Deaver made an advance-planning visit to Bitburg. The 32 rows of headstones were covered with snow. Deaver was usually very skillful in carrying out his role as public relations maestro for Reagan, but this time he and his team failed to discover that 49 members of the Waffen-SS were buried at Kolmeshöhe. A decision was made by the Reagan team not to include a visit to a concentration camp, as had been previously suggested by Kohl. The president said he didn't want to risk "reawakening the passions of the time" or offend his hosts by visiting a concentration camp.


[edit] Announcement
On 11 April 1985, then White House press secretary Larry Speakes informed the media of the planned visit to Bitburg. When asked who was buried at Kolmeshöhe, Speakes said he thought both American and German soldiers were there. Reporters soon discovered that no American servicemen were in the cemetery (in fact, the remains of all U.S. soldiers had long since been removed from German soil), and the distinctly close location of the Waffen-SS graves to the proposed ceremony. When questioned, Bitburg Mayor Theo Hallet pointed out, all German military cemeteries were likely to contain at least a few SS graves. Such distinctions, though, failed to placate those who were opposed to Reagan's visit on moral and political grounds. Decorations and memorials on the Waffen-SS graves were removed just prior to Reagan's visit, and replaced right after [1].


[edit] Controversy
This planned visit caused a great deal of anger outside of Germany. Many prominent government officials, U.S. Army officers, and celebrities, protested the planned visit. Concentration camp survivor and author Elie Wiesel spoke out on the topic at an unrelated White House ceremony, saying, "I... implore you to do something else, to find another way, another site. That place, Mr. President, is not your place." 53 senators (including 11 Republicans), signed a letter asking the president to cancel, and 257 representatives (including 84 Republicans) signed a letter urging Chancellor Kohl to withdraw the invitation. Former Army S/Sgt. Jim Hively mailed his World War II decorations, including a silver star and a bronze star, to Reagan in protest. The Ramones recorded the song "My Brain Is Hanging Upside Down (Bonzo Goes to Bitburg)," which alludes to Bedtime for Bonzo and Bonzo Goes to College, two movies from Reagan's film career that co-starred a chimpanzee, and Frank Zappa recorded "Reagan At Bitburg". Robyn Hitchcock's song The President from his album Element of Light also makes reference to the incident.[2]

Chancellor Kohl responded in an interview with the New York Times: "I will not give up the idea. If we don't go to Bitburg, if we don't do what we jointly planned, we will deeply offend the feelings of [my] people." A poll revealed that 72% of West Germans thought the visit should go forward as planned. Kohl admitted that rarely had German-American relations been so strained, and in the days leading up to the visit, the White House and the Chancellery were pitted against each other in the blame game. The White House claimed the Germans had given assurances that nothing in the Bitburg visit would be an "embarrassment" for the president: "As clumsily as we handled it, Kohl &. Co. have surpassed us in spades." A German official said: "The Americans also have a responsibility toward the president. They must also check on the history that is beneath the ground. It was not very intelligent." Reagan defended himself by saying:

"These [SS troops] were the villains, as we know, that conducted the persecutions and all. But there are 2,000 graves there, and most of those, the average age is about 18. I think that there's nothing wrong with visiting that cemetery where those young men are victims of Nazism also, even though they were fighting in the German uniform, drafted into service to carry out the hateful wishes of the Nazis. They were victims, just as surely as the victims in the concentration camps" [3]

Reagan was criticized for this statement by opponents of the visit. Equating Nazi soldiers with Holocaust victims, responded Rabbi Alexander M. Schindler, president of the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, was "a callous offense for the Jewish people." Many questioned Reagan's claim that most of the SS soldiers at Kolmeshöhe had been teenagers drafted against their will into serving, but later research indicated that most of the 49 SS dead were between the ages of 17 and 20[citation needed]. Some critics claimed that Communications Director Patrick Buchanan wrote those remarks, which he denies [3]. Kohl confirmed earlier press comment that in the last days of the war he was able to avoid service in the SS because he was only 15, "but they hanged a boy from a tree who was perhaps only two years older with a sign saying TRAITOR because he had tried to run away rather than serve."

Kohl made a call to the White House days before Reagan's visit to make sure the president wasn't wavering in the face of criticism, not to mention pressure from wife Nancy. The Chancellor's aide, Horst Teltschik later said: "Once we knew about the SS dead at Bitburg - knowing that these SS people were seventeen to eighteen years of age, and knowing that some Germans were forced to become members of the SS, having no alternative - the question was, Should this be a reason to cancel?" Reagan aide Robert McFarlane later said: "Once Reagan learned that Kohl would really be badly damaged by a withdrawal, he said 'We can't do that; I owe him.'" Prior to sending Deaver back to West Germany for the third time, just two days before the scheduled visit, Reagan told his deputy chief of staff: "I know you and Nancy don't want me to go through with this, but I don't want you to change anything when you get over there, because history will prove I'm right. If we can't reconcile after forty years, we are never going to be able to do it."

There was one announced change: an added visit to the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp to itinerary.
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SAMSON123

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Re: Oh God: Now Obama to Apologize to Germans for Dresden
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2009, 05:20:58 PM »
Barry's headed to kraut land this summer. He's going to Buchenwald and the to Dresden to apologize for Churchill's bombing of Dresden. Because the friggen German's were victims right.  ::)


He will be aware of the sensibilities of his German hosts before the D-Day commemoration and by traveling to Dresden — a city destroyed by ferocious Allied bombing in February 1945 — Mr Obama will also acknowledge how Germany suffered during the Second World War.


Well that maneuver oughta get those Israelis goat.....

Is this the precursor to an american attack on Israhell???...hmmmm we will see...
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Al Doggity

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Re: Oh God: Now Obama to Apologize to Germans for Dresden
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2009, 05:30:54 PM »
I didn't read your second post, but where did you get the info from the first post?


There was a story about this on the NYTimes site a few days ago and they reported that the visit won't even be an official state visit. He's going to explore familial roots.

Why would an American president apologize for the actions of the British army?