Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Fatpanda on October 26, 2009, 08:59:41 AM
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just read an interesting study done on myostatin levels while on testosterone. Basically the levels of myostatin increased around week 8, then returned to normal around week 20.
now this poses the questions:
a) should we stop cycles at week 8 or earlier.
b) should we continue with maintenence dosages from week 8 untill week 20 then increase again.
the study is called:
Measurement of myostatin concentrations in human serum:
Circulating concentrations in young and older men and effects
of testosterone administration.
thoughts ?
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i like 10 - 12 weeks cycles..;)
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i like 10 - 12 weeks cycles..;)
yes but didn't the mass gains slow around week 8 ? ;)
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Good find, can any vets chime in?
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Myostatin isn't going to immediately, 100% halt all gains and make training on gear absolutely worthless. We're not dealing with polar extremities. Sure, it's very limiting... but what about the newly acquired mass? Come off all androgens and lose most of it, if not all of it?
Some important factors are the doses, compounds, goals for that particular cycle, cycle history, etc... I think it's good to do small, heavier cycles or blast and cruise for a longer period of time. They both have their pros and cons.
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Something to keep in mind, a lot of guys confuse the initial gain in the beginning of a cycle with "real" gains when it's in fact a bunch of fluff.
When he posted here Trab used to talk about the old "set-point" theory and there's a lot to be said about that. The short cycles can produce some gains but it is very hard to reset your set-point with those kinds of cycles. Your body has to get used to the new muscle if it's going to keep it, it has to get used to its new metabolic function if it is going to keep it...homeostasis is not a bunch of made up garbage.
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Something to keep in mind, a lot of guys confuse the initial gain in the beginning of a cycle with "real" gains when it's in fact a bunch of fluff.
When he posted here Trab used to talk about the old "set-point" theory and there's a lot to be said about that. The short cycles can produce some gains but it is very hard to reset your set-point with those kinds of cycles. Your body has to get used to the new muscle if it's going to keep it, it has to get used to its new metabolic function if it is going to keep it...homeostasis is not a bunch of made up garbage.
Agreed. That's why I'm subscribing to the blasting and cruising theory. I've been cutting hardcore for almost 6 months, blasting and cruising with my training. And now with my drug supplementation. After cutting on gear for a while, I've taken small breaks so I can blast through plateaus. And same thing with gaining mass. It's hard for it to "stick" to my skinny lady boy frame, but if I gain modest amounts and hold my weight it stays on better.
I just got really sick for a few weeks. Extreme lethargy, dizziness, puking... don't know what it was. Maybe I had swine flu because everyone at work had it. In any event, I only lost a lb or two of water weight when I would have lost 20lbs in the past. My body's finally getting used to being bigger. I also didn't lose much conditioning either. Just a film of water under the skin. A day or two with a clean diet and a few workouts and the edema was gone, and my muscles were holding a few pounds of glycogen (I presume - maybe it was a few pounds of newly acquired SHIT in my bowels LOL).
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Sounds like your doing well Dustin. I completely agree with what Trab used to talk about here. I also agree with what AJ said above. I have been on pretty heavy doses since February, and am now cruising on 150mg Test E, and 150mg Nandrolone Decanoate. It has been the absolute best cycle yet. I went through some pretty trying times in my personal life at the beginning of the cycle and actually lost weight due to lack of calories, but have since gotten back on track. Our bodies really need to get used to carrying the newly acquired muscle. If we bulk then cut to soon we will lose more than just fat. The body really needs to acclimate to the new weight so it can learn to hold it. Also shutting down the HTPA and restarting it over and over again is asking for more problems down the road. Especially for the younger ones looking to have children some day. I would imagine one would only get away with it so many times before something actually breaks. My $$ is on blasting and cruising, and using HCG through out the B&C to keep the leydig alive and healthy.
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so what are the blast and cruising lengths you are all using ? do you all find the lower dosages help maintain all/most/some of the mass acquired during the blast?
8 weeks blast 20 weeks cruise ?
clearly you can't blast forever as its obvious the gains stop/slow down at some point. This study helps explain at least partially 1 reason for this slowdown/stop.
the cruise would help you maintain and as a few have mentioned, allow your body to adapt/get used to the new size.
the other option i did not mention is to perhaps to increase the dosage at week 8 to keep ahead of the curve.
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powerlifting with low volume training is the best way to keep the gains off-cycle
right now I am doing 10 weeks on 10 weeks off cycle, I'll keep you guys updated but I didn't lose a pound while comming off for the last 12 weeks.
I gained maybe 5 lbs of fat, and lost maybe 5 lbs of muscle but the bodyweight stayed the same.
I gained some fat, but I prefer getting fat and not loosing too much muscle than restricting calories and lose 15 lbs in the first month :-X
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Something to keep in mind, a lot of guys confuse the initial gain in the beginning of a cycle with "real" gains when it's in fact a bunch of fluff.
When he posted here Trab used to talk about the old "set-point" theory and there's a lot to be said about that. The short cycles can produce some gains but it is very hard to reset your set-point with those kinds of cycles. Your body has to get used to the new muscle if it's going to keep it, it has to get used to its new metabolic function if it is going to keep it...homeostasis is not a bunch of made up garbage.
Very true takes time to solidify gains and make real changes in your physique, I'm talking years of steady training, eating, gearing up. I'm not talking some beach body but a true BB type body that is balanced, thick and proportionate through out. Any tool can jump on some gear and get bigger arms and chest for a while but complete physiques are rare in most gyms. comming off will reduce your progress its that simple, its your call if you wanna do it. know what you are doing and be confident in your knowledge.
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Very true takes time to solidify gains and make real changes in your physique, I'm talking years of steady training, eating, gearing up. I'm not talking some beach body but a true BB type body that is balanced, thick and proportionate through out. Any tool can jump on some gear and get bigger arms and chest for a while but complete physiques are rare in most gyms. comming off will reduce your progress its that simple, its your call if you wanna do it. know what you are doing and be confident in your knowledge.
Very true. Good post!
I've become slow to bash guys here or bust their balls for certain statements...no point on raining on someones parade just to hear myself talk. However, I can't count how many post on here I've read and how many guys I've talked with in real life who go on cycle, gain 20 or even 30lbs and talk about how they've been transformed...then more guys than that talk about how they've made these "solid muscle gains" the first month of their cycle but can't figure out what's going wrong with the rest of it...after all, they gained 20lbs the first month, shouldn't they gain 20lbs every month after that, lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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My training partner has been 'blasting' 3g per week for 12 weeks and is still gaining...
E...
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My training partner has been 'blasting' 3g per week for 12 weeks and is still gaining...
E...
perhaps i'm coming across wrong here.
i'm not saying you should stop at 8 weeks, nor am i saying you should stay on forever, i'm simply posting an interesting study thas help explain the reason gains slow around week 8-10. i know i've experienced this.
i'm sure we all know guys that have been gaining longer too, but we can't gain forever.
take the study for what its worth - an interesting read about another part of the muscle building puzzle.
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My training partner has been 'blasting' 3g per week for 12 weeks and is still gaining...
E...
isn't blasting like 5 - 10 g a week? 1 - 5 g is sometimes what guys use a regular dosage. I don't agree, 8 weeks then cruise??? No way stay at high dosage and just leave it at that, when gains slow down after like 30 weeks or something, change it up.
jt
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blasting and cruising is better than going on and off completely, but even better yet is to maintain a moderate doseage year round. you can alternate steroids but keep doseage the same.
for example=
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
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blasting and cruising is better than going on and off completely, but even better yet is to maintain a moderate doseage year round. you can alternate steroids but keep doseage the same.
for example=
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
Agree on your recommendations here. Stay on if you want max muscle, a moderate dose is the best bet for long term use and with the right food and training you should be able to hammer out a good physique
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Agree on your recommendations here. Stay on if you want max muscle, a moderate dose is the best bet for long term use and with the right food and training you should be able to hammer out a good physique
x2
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Up the dose, lift the most. 8)
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blasting and cruising is better than going on and off completely, but even better yet is to maintain a moderate doseage year round. you can alternate steroids but keep doseage the same.
for example=
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
8 weeks 500 test 500 tren
8 weeks 500 test 500 equipoise
8 weeks 500 test 500 deca
8 weeks 500 test 500 primo
In general I agree with what you're saying but when I look at the purposed cycle you laid out above there are things I'd do differently. I do understand that maybe you just laid it out like you did as a way to get your overall point across...if so cool, if not I'd like to know but I don't want to make any specific comments until I know for sure...no need to put my foot in my mouth...I do plenty of that on a regular basis here at home, lol!
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on a side note: i love primo 8)
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isn't blasting like 5 - 10 g a week? 1 - 5 g is sometimes what guys use a regular dosage. I don't agree, 8 weeks then cruise??? No way stay at high dosage and just leave it at that, when gains slow down after like 30 weeks or something, change it up.
jt
Blasting is using a high does for your physique.....totally individual IMO, there is no set value that amounts to 'blasting'. Anything above 5g per week is really going to lay you up in terms of sides, even if only for a short period. I have friends who have run 1g PD for 30-50days and whilst the gains were nothing short of awesome, the sides were not pretty.
Recently I have been running a Test E base continually. Then for 4-8 weeks add in prop, fina, bold, etc. When I come off the extras, I return to the base and maybe use a few dbol/var/peps here and there for 4 weeks. Then repeat the cycle.
E...
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Blasting is using a high does for your physique.....totally individual IMO, there is no set value that amounts to 'blasting'. Anything above 5g per week is really going to lay you up in terms of sides, even if only for a short period. I have friends who have run 1g PD for 30-50days and whilst the gains were nothing short of awesome, the sides were not pretty.
Recently I have been running a Test E base continually. Then for 4-8 weeks add in prop, fina, bold, etc. When I come off the extras, I return to the base and maybe use a few dbol/var/peps here and there for 4 weeks. Then repeat the cycle.
E...
1g a day ::)
i believe you are lying through your teeth.
any pics of this monster ::)
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1g a day ::)
i believe you are lying through your teeth.
any pics of this monster ::)
It's not unheard of, my friend. A buddy of mine was running obscene doses like that too and while he grew like fucking nuts, he said he felt like death.
At one point almost everyone's curiosity peaks. Today I'm drawn between pinning a small dose of sustanon or a full dose. Still not sure if I'm going to keep blasting or just cruise. We'll see what my decision is tonight. It'll be 900mg a week of sust if I go all out, most I've ever done by a long shot. Either that or cruise on just a few hundred mg EW :)
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It's not unheard of, my friend. A buddy of mine was running obscene doses like that too and while he grew like fucking nuts, he said he felt like death.
At one point almost everyone's curiosity peaks. Today I'm drawn between pinning a small dose of sustanon or a full dose. Still not sure if I'm going to keep blasting or just cruise. We'll see what my decision is tonight. It'll be 900mg a week of sust if I go all out, most I've ever done by a long shot. Either that or cruise on just a few hundred mg EW :)
well for 50 days of a gram each day it would have to be from powder to be affordable, and even then just how high would the purity of it be :o
i also don't think there would be any benefit at all to go over 3-4g a week, but with some powder being dodgy perhaps the guy was only really taking 3-4g.
dustin how must test do you normally use ?
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well for 50 days of a gram each day it would have to be from powder to be affordable, and even then just how high would the purity of it be :o
i also don't think there would be any benefit at all to go over 3-4g a week, but with some powder being dodgy perhaps the guy was only really taking 3-4g.
dustin how must test do you normally use ?
Oh yeah no doubt, there's certainly a point where the returns on higher doses diminish greatly. I'm sure you can megadose for a bit, but for a long time, yikes...
I normally use a minimal dose because of estrogenic concerns. Actually, prolactin. Finally got caber and my pseudo gyno is 100% eliminated so I wanna run big test doses. Never ran over 500mgs.
Last cycle was Ultradex (test prop, tren ace and masteron all at 50mgs each per ml), ran that for 8 weeks and finished last week. Running Pentadex now which is Sustanon but 300mg per ml. Banged a ml three days ago, wondering if I should bang half a ml and pin thrice a week or a full ml... fucking decisions!!!
Still cutting right now but I'm so fucking full and hard. Everyone at work is telling me to flex my shit and lift up my shirt. It's going to my head lol. If I run 900mg EW I'll probably do that and put on a few pounds, then cut a little more. I have deca, primo and EQ coming in because I was so indecisive. Gonna cruise for a couple weeks before going on deca then I'm gonna blast for 8-12 weeks and go balls to the fucking wall.
I've been off for over a year so I've been super eager to get back on. Too much engagement and family stuff going on that I couldn't train hard enough to justify juicing. It was the hardest thing ever!
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Oh yeah no doubt, there's certainly a point where the returns on higher doses diminish greatly. I'm sure you can megadose for a bit, but for a long time, yikes...
I normally use a minimal dose because of estrogenic concerns. Actually, prolactin. Finally got caber and my pseudo gyno is 100% eliminated so I wanna run big test doses. Never ran over 500mgs.
Last cycle was Ultradex (test prop, tren ace and masteron all at 50mgs each per ml), ran that for 8 weeks and finished last week. Running Pentadex now which is Sustanon but 300mg per ml. Banged a ml three days ago, wondering if I should bang half a ml and pin thrice a week or a full ml... fucking decisions!!!
Still cutting right now but I'm so fucking full and hard. Everyone at work is telling me to flex my shit and lift up my shirt. It's going to my head lol. If I run 900mg EW I'll probably do that and put on a few pounds, then cut a little more. I have deca, primo and EQ coming in because I was so indecisive. Gonna cruise for a couple weeks before going on deca then I'm gonna blast for 8-12 weeks and go balls to the fucking wall.
I've been off for over a year so I've been super eager to get back on. Too much engagement and family stuff going on that I couldn't train hard enough to justify juicing. It was the hardest thing ever!
8)
how did you like the ultradex ?
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8)
how did you like the ultradex ?
I fucking loved it. Thought there wasn't enough test so I pinned sust at the beginning but stopped. I blew up fast enough and my libido was rock solid throughout. Didn't start the caber till the last week or so. All around good combo, I've seen other UGLs produce this too so I'm a new fan of this mixture.
BTW, pinned a full ml of Pentadex (300mg sust) tonight. Gonna try 900mg until my definition washes out then I'll continue cutting. Blood work showed low cortisol and my ephedrine withdrawal headaches are gone. Should be able to cut hardcore again in a few weeks, for a few weeks. Then blasting again with deca. Fuck I missed juicing. I just want to load a whole syringe and jam it in my jugular vein lol :D