Author Topic: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!  (Read 3178 times)

240 is Back

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Shit, this makes all our forces look bad.

I dunno what to think here.



Iraq massacre: US Marines 'will point the finger of blame at senior officers'

Andrew Gumbel
London Independent
Sunday, December 24, 2006

Lawyers for eight Marines charged with involvement in the massacre of Iraqi civilians in Haditha 13 months ago have warned that they will point the finger much further up the chain of command if it means preventing their clients from being scapegoated.

"We're going to drag every single, two-star and full-bird colonel and general into this thing," said Kevin McDermott, a California-based lawyer representing Captain Lucas McConnell, the commander of Kilo Company, which carried out the Haditha killings. The defence lawyers say their clients were following official policy on the rules of engagement.

In all, 24 Iraqis, including six children, several women and an old man in a wheelchair, were killed in Haditha as the Marines responded to the death of a colleague in a roadside bombing in November 2005. Only five of the dead Iraqis have been identified as militants, while the rest appear to have been innocent civilians.

Four Marines were charged with unpremeditated murder last week, and face life imprisonment if convicted. The man who led a series of deadly house-to-house raids that day, Staff Sgt Frank Wuterich, is personally accused of murdering 12 people. Four others, including Capt McConnell, face an array of lesser charges, including failure to report the incident properly, failure to conduct an appropriate investigation and general dereliction of duty.

Many critics have argued that the Haditha incident might have been written off as business as usual, were it not for graphic Iraqi documentation of the massacre that made its way into Time magazine last spring. The military initially claimed, erroneously, that the roadside bomb killed 15 of the Iraqis, and nominated Staff Sgt Wuterich for a medal for bravery.

Responding to the charges against his client, Mr McDermott said the top brass was well aware of what had happened, but condemned it only after it became glaringly public. "A lot of lieutenant colonels and colonels and generals knew what happened that day, and nobody said, 'let's do a thorough investigation of what happened'," he said. "By the end of the day, [my client's] superiors recognised the situation was so significant that they brought in air support.

"There were Harriers dropping 500lb bombs on buildings. If they're dropping 500lb bombs without knocking on the door first, how can you argue the troops on the ground did anything wrong?"

The Haditha case could not come at a worse time for US morale, as the White House pushes for a "surge" of extra troops to secure Baghdad and Sunni-controlled Anbar province against the better judgment of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and all but 12 per cent of the US public. President George Bush's administration has even talked about expanding the overall size of the US military.

Haditha was front-page news across America on Friday, forcing officials sharply on to the defensive. Condoleezza Rice, the Secretary of State, said the cost in US lives and money in Iraq had been "worth it". President Bush, she insisted, would never ask for further sacrifices "if he didn't believe, and in fact I believe as well, that we can in fact succeed".

The new Defence Secretary, Robert Gates, gave a similarly positive - if unconvincing - assessment as he made his first trip to Iraq in his new job. "I believe, based on what I have heard and seen both from American commanders and the Iraqis, that things are moving in a positive direction."


sandycoosworth

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2006, 12:34:19 AM »
"There were Harriers dropping 500lb bombs on buildings. If they're dropping 500lb bombs without knocking on the door first, how can you argue the troops on the ground did anything wrong?"

brilliant

insane

evil

gtbro1

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2006, 12:43:03 AM »
   Yeah where is Intensone....According to him this is all worth it. After all, when those Marines murdered those little kids,they were in fact Protecting America. ::)

  This is terrible.I know it was 13 months ago but I had not heard about this.I bet the average person would faint if they knew all the horrible things that happen in a war.I am sure there is way more unneccesary murder than we ever hear about.I also have little doubt that the soldiers were following orders.You can bet that the low men on the pole(the soldiers who pulled the trigger) will take all the wrap for this.The sad thing is if they refuse to obey orders they will be thrown in prison just the same.

Tre

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2006, 02:21:26 AM »

There is no reason to believe that every soldier is a good soldier or even a good person, because they are not. 

We do nothing in this country to prepare men and women for the psychological horrors of war.  Even if we had the ability to, it's not likely that we would.

This illegal war has put people in the position to commit criminal acts that they never would've committed had they been at home working a 9-5 job and going to trade school in the evenings like their friends. 

I bet some of those folks sure would love to be home with their families right now.

gtbro1

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2006, 03:26:37 AM »
OH NOOOO!! They are too busy DEFENDING AMERICA.  ::)  The funny thing is,all of the biggest supporters of this "war on terror" are at home this morning with their families.

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2006, 11:25:07 AM »
its WAR folks...


you cant ask thousands and thousands of solders to get ready to kill without without expecting un warrented aggression...
carpe` vaginum!

headhuntersix

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2006, 09:50:15 PM »
Not sure if Toxie is serious but he's right.  Hey TRE every soldier knows whats right and wrong as far as the rules of ingagement so ur wrong. The initial investigation into this cleared these guys because the insurgents were amongst the civi's. It was only becasue of some BS piece by Time and the human rights organization that listened to people who will get smoked if they don't do what the insurgents tell them, that this all came out. At this point the Brass will hang these kids out to dry.
L

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2006, 10:28:45 PM »
Not sure if Toxie is serious but he's right.  Hey TRE every soldier knows whats right and wrong as far as the rules of ingagement so ur wrong. The initial investigation into this cleared these guys because the insurgents were amongst the civi's. It was only becasue of some BS piece by Time and the human rights organization that listened to people who will get smoked if they don't do what the insurgents tell them, that this all came out. At this point the Brass will hang these kids out to dry.

I'M FUCKING SERIOUS AND I'M FUCKING RIGHT....

you pluck 19 and 18 (19 and 18 ya sons of bitches..NOt old ENOUGH TO FUCKING DRINK)yr old kiddies out of their lives..you feed em "we r at war with these animals" stuff...

and then ...this is  SOOOO FUCKING WRONG IT BOILS MY BLOOD..

THEN...AFTER YOU HAVE BRAIN WASHED THESE INNOCENT KIDDIES ...AND TURNED EM INTO KILLING MACHINES (WHICH BTW IS THE RIGHT THING TO BE IN A WAR) YOU FUCKING DARE...I MEAN YOU FUCKING DARE TO CALL THEM CRIMINALS...


f**k YOU BUSH...AND f**k YOU DO GOODERS N THE HIGH HORSES YALL RODE IN ON

off with your fucking heads ..is what i say...


these kids are heros... THEY WENT IN KNOWING VERY WELL THEY MIGHT DIE..AND THEY DID WHAT WS ASKED..NO QUESTIONS ASKED..

ITS NOT..NOT NOT NOT NOT THEIR FUCKING FAULTS
carpe` vaginum!

headhuntersix

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2006, 10:49:39 PM »
Your arguing on high minded moral grounds and thats fine but..I don't think they did what they're being accused of in the first place. Besides Toxie ur using common sense. The brass will hang them out to dry to save their asses and that will be that.
L

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2006, 10:52:32 PM »
Your arguing on high minded moral grounds


i have lived my life on those grounds bro...


despite losing $...pussy..and love...and my fucking dignity..

anyhow..who'll give a flying fuck in the big scheme of things right..
carpe` vaginum!

Tre

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2006, 02:38:30 PM »
Not sure if Toxie is serious but he's right.  Hey TRE every soldier knows whats right and wrong as far as the rules of ingagement so ur wrong. The initial investigation into this cleared these guys because the insurgents were amongst the civi's. It was only becasue of some BS piece by Time and the human rights organization that listened to people who will get smoked if they don't do what the insurgents tell them, that this all came out. At this point the Brass will hang these kids out to dry.

Of course the 'Brass' will hang them out to dry - that's what enlisted men are there for. 

Knowing the rules of engagement and obeying them are completely separate deals altogether. 

It's not so nearly as honorable an institution as their PR people would have you to believe.  The military is filled with thieves, rapists, and thugs and the only thing keeping many of them out of trouble is the fear of base restriction.


gtbro1

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2006, 06:51:58 PM »
I'M FUCKING SERIOUS AND I'M FUCKING RIGHT....

you pluck 19 and 18 (19 and 18 ya sons of bitches..NOt old ENOUGH TO FUCKING DRINK)yr old kiddies out of their lives..you feed em "we r at war with these animals" stuff...

and then ...this is  SOOOO FUCKING WRONG IT BOILS MY BLOOD..

THEN...AFTER YOU HAVE BRAIN WASHED THESE INNOCENT KIDDIES ...AND TURNED EM INTO KILLING MACHINES (WHICH BTW IS THE RIGHT THING TO BE IN A WAR) YOU FUCKING DARE...I MEAN YOU FUCKING DARE TO CALL THEM CRIMINALS...


f**k YOU BUSH...AND f**k YOU DO GOODERS N THE HIGH HORSES YALL RODE IN ON

off with your fucking heads ..is what i say...


these kids are heros... THEY WENT IN KNOWING VERY WELL THEY MIGHT DIE..AND THEY DID WHAT WS ASKED..NO QUESTIONS ASKED..

ITS NOT..NOT NOT NOT NOT THEIR FUCKING FAULTS

   excellent post.

sandycoosworth

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2006, 02:04:00 PM »
I'M FUCKING SERIOUS AND I'M FUCKING RIGHT....

you pluck 19 and 18 (19 and 18 ya sons of bitches..NOt old ENOUGH TO FUCKING DRINK)yr old kiddies out of their lives..you feed em "we r at war with these animals" stuff...

and then ...this is  SOOOO FUCKING WRONG IT BOILS MY BLOOD..

THEN...AFTER YOU HAVE BRAIN WASHED THESE INNOCENT KIDDIES ...AND TURNED EM INTO KILLING MACHINES (WHICH BTW IS THE RIGHT THING TO BE IN A WAR) YOU FUCKING DARE...I MEAN YOU FUCKING DARE TO CALL THEM CRIMINALS...


f**k YOU BUSH...AND f**k YOU DO GOODERS N THE HIGH HORSES YALL RODE IN ON

off with your fucking heads ..is what i say...


these kids are heros... THEY WENT IN KNOWING VERY WELL THEY MIGHT DIE..AND THEY DID WHAT WS ASKED..NO QUESTIONS ASKED..

ITS NOT..NOT NOT NOT NOT THEIR FUCKING FAULTS


um

lets not forget these pricks greased a bunch of woman and children, they are pieces of shit and do deserve to die, being "brainwashed" is not a reasonable excuse


now to be fair, the other side of the coin is what they did is common place and they happen to be the unlucky bastards who got the spotlight and will suffer for it.... this is why i feel no pity for the amreekan pricks who get killed or maimed in the war, in fact it makes me feel kinda good to see them getting a small taste :)

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2006, 02:05:58 PM »

um

lets not forget these pricks greased a bunch of woman and children, they are pieces of shit and do deserve to die, being "brainwashed" is not a reasonable excuse


now to be fair, the other side of the coin is what they did is common place and they happen to be the unlucky bastards who got the spotlight and will suffer for it.... this is why i feel no pity for the amreekan pricks who get killed or maimed in the war, in fact it makes me feel kinda good to see them getting a small taste :)

i see your side..

but how many 18 and 19 yr olds ya know that are not easily influenced?
carpe` vaginum!

sandycoosworth

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2006, 02:08:29 PM »
its a very mallable age, but how many 18/19 y/olds do not know that killing unarmed women and children is wrong

this is the me lai (sp?) incident all over again ... they were pissed and took their anger out on the first brownies they saw, unfortunately for them the iraqi's documented the scene pretty well and the rest is entertainment history

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Woah! Charged US Marines will place blame up to Gen level, naming names!
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2006, 02:12:08 PM »
its a very mallable age, but how many 18/19 y/olds do not know that killing unarmed women and children is wrong

this is the me lai (sp?) incident all over again ... they were pissed and took their anger out on the first brownies they saw, unfortunately for them the iraqi's documented the scene pretty well and the rest is entertainment history

dont get me wrong..its wrong what they did..BUT..you HAVE to take the situation into consideration..

for the media..these kids will be made examples of..
carpe` vaginum!