Safe number of weeks to be on?

[theworm]

I'm going to get bashed for this, but I really don't think steroids should be an all or nothing.  Is either get on them forever or don't use them at all.  But for me, when I come off I retain a good bit etc, but what's everyone's opinion on the max weeks to be on in a year if safety/health is a major concern (but still wanna use )
Dan Duchaine mentioned that a solid 8 week cycle a year would "produce no negative health concerns and might even be healthier for the body for the rest of the year"
I was thinking 2, 8 weekers?   I know it's a generalization, just seeing what others think...

[Mad-scientist]

It depends on the individual and how their blood work comes back. You have to look at your blood work and see what numbers your conformable with. One guy could run a 8 week cycle and have horrible blood work and another guy could be on for a year straight and have normal bloodwork come back. Every one is different so the question your asking there really is no answer to except check your bloodwork.

[theworm]

It depends on the individual and how their blood work comes back. You have to look at your blood work and see what numbers your conformable with. One guy could run a 8 week cycle and have horrible blood work and another guy could be on for a year straight and have normal bloodwork come back. Every one is different so the question your asking there really is no answer to except check your bloodwork.

My blood work is ok, my test levels are around 300 off a few months but that's cause I run deca a lot.  I'm going to stick with test and var and recheck after, and I bet it will be higher...

[Weedlejuice]

I'm going to get bashed for this, but I really don't think steroids should be an all or nothing.  Is either get on them forever or don't use them at all.  But for me, when I come off I retain a good bit etc, but what's everyone's opinion on the max weeks to be on in a year if safety/health is a major concern (but still wanna use )
Dan Duchaine mentioned that a solid 8 week cycle a year would "produce no negative health concerns and might even be healthier for the body for the rest of the year"
I was thinking 2, 8 weekers?   I know it's a generalization, just seeing what others think...

0, seriously though, you post way to many questions about healthy this, minimal dose of that.

The real question is how long can i have less than optimal blood work before i hit the shitter and when should i pack it in completely.

If you haven't come to terms with the fact your potentially shaving years off for a completely arbitrary goal you should get off period.

[pestosterone]

I'm usually on 52 weeks out of the year give or take leap year and things

[theworm]

0, seriously though, you post way to many questions about healthy this, minimal dose of that.

The real question is how long can i have less than optimal blood work before i hit the shitter and when should i pack it in completely.

If you haven't come to terms with the fact your potentially shaving years off for a completely arbitrary goal you should get off period.

I really think there is a sweet spot, like do an 8 week cycle,  aggressive Pct, then 16 weeks off and repeat.  Just seeing others experiences?

[lilhawk1]

As long as your bloodwork is good, then there is absolutely no need to ever come off.  You're doing your body more harm by having fluctuations in hormone levels by coming off. 

[spiro]

Blast for 8 weeks when you feel like it and then cruise on test what's wrong with that? I feel like you bring this topic up once a week.

[balzac]

im doing 6 months on /6 months off 

[theworm]

Blast for 8 weeks when you feel like it and then cruise on test what's wrong with that? I feel like you bring this topic up once a week.

Because I'm starting to believe bill Roberts.  I know many of you think he doesn't know shit but his theories are pretty convincing. 
For those who don't know, his claim is that if you keep the cycle to 2 weeks, you don't shut down the pituitary or hypothalamus, only the testes get shut down. Then after one week, the HPTA is fully functional and you continue making gains.  Wait 4 weeks then repeat and keep building off the small cycles.
I am not saying this is true, but pretty convincing.  He had a test subject he followed, did blood work on and has excellent results.
I'd love to stay on but my damn HDL drops like a rock, and that can't be good long term...

[Mad-scientist]

You could always try your different theories and find out what works best for your health by examining your blood work.

[Weedlejuice]

Because I'm starting to believe bill Roberts.  I know many of you think he doesn't know shit but his theories are pretty convincing. 
For those who don't know, his claim is that if you keep the cycle to 2 weeks, you don't shut down the pituitary or hypothalamus, only the testes get shut down. Then after one week, the HPTA is fully functional and you continue making gains.  Wait 4 weeks then repeat and keep building off the small cycles.
I am not saying this is true, but pretty convincing.  He had a test subject he followed, did blood work on and has excellent results.
I'd love to stay on but my damn HDL drops like a rock, and that can't be good long term...

Well one ml of deca is gonna shut you down for months so by that logic your only gonna be able to run fast esters, orals and no progesterones at doses that arent going to do much eitherway.

Hefty conistent doses that get the job done, no crazy weight fluctuations because you cant keep your diet in check, have a break at the end of the year even if it's just placebo, realise everybody dies and the world is a pretty horrible place anyway, fuck it, repeat

[Bulgarian_enforcer]

I have been doing time on=time off with constant gh intake.

With experience I seem to prefer longer cycles to avoid frequent fluctuation in hormone levels. Last year i did 6 months on 6 off. This year i will try 8 months on 4 weeks off. Also I am very tempted to cruise on 200 mg of test, but dont want to sacrifice my balls yet..

I dont run anything major trt test cyp, 600 mg primo EW, var here and there for around 4 weeks.

I am more into MMA and that is why the small dosages.

[pestosterone]

I really think there is a sweet spot, like do an 8 week cycle,  aggressive Pct, then 16 weeks off and repeat.  Just seeing others experiences?

8 weeks on 16 weeks off doesn't work for most people u just fucking start over after u reach a certain level it's a waste of time just stay off. If the goal is forward progress meaning most muscle mass least amount of body fat, then the 8 week on 16 off shit don't fly

[Mad-scientist]

My blood work is ok, my test levels are around 300 off a few months but that's cause I run deca a lot.  I'm going to stick with test and var and recheck after, and I bet it will be higher...

If your levels are only 300ng/dl I would highly consider stopping all anabolics for around 6 months and trying a hpta restart with clomid and nolva. 300ng/dl is like 30ng/dl away from low testosterone by medical standards. I would say your a couple cycles away from ending up on trt if you don't give your body some time off. I would stop taking any 19 nor steroids and go with steroids that are less suppressive in the future.

[theworm]

If your levels are only 300ng/dl I would highly consider stopping all anabolics for around 6 months and trying a hpta restart with clomid and nolva. 300ng/dl is like 30ng/dl away from low testosterone by medical standards. I would say your a couple cycles away from ending up on trt if you don't give your body some time off. I would stop taking any 19 nor steroids and go with steroids that are less suppressive in the future.

That is exactly what I'm going to do.  Also it's jizmo advice to stay away from deca for me,,, I just have a ton left .  Maybe ramp it up to 600 X 10 more weeks so I can just be done with it and stick with test anavar

[equipoise]

if you're scared why not go on proper TRT (100mg test e a week or less) and blast as and when you feel like it? Test levels in the physiological range shouldn't mess up your blood work

[Mad-scientist]

I'm on TRT and I would highly advise staying away from it as long as possible. Honestly trt is a big fucking hastle and if you can avoid it you really should try to. I recommend crushing your deca vials and throwing them away or you will end up using them. The best advice I can give you worm is to take a 6 month break any gains you lose can easily be gained back and do a hpta restart with clomid and nolva. Trt will just make your lipids worse most likely especially if you need an AI.

[theworm]

I'm on TRT and I would highly advise staying away from it as long as possible. Honestly trt is a big fucking hastle and if you can avoid it you really should try to. I recommend crushing your deca vials and throwing them away or you will end up using them. The best advice I can give you worm is to take a 6 month break any gains you lose can easily be gained back and do a hpta restart with clomid and nolva. Trt will just make your lipids worse most likely especially if you need an AI.

This is so damn true!!  Lol
Stupid question, but u think I can recover from deca while using hcg on cycle and aggressive PCT after?  

Also, there is a study on hrt doses of test, even 100 mg a week lowers HDL.  I agree with you, I'm trying to stay away from HRt for at least another 5-10 years.  

Instead of throwing the deca away, so I just use all of it and then be done with it?   Cause I'd hate to do another cycke with deca in a few months and inhibit my natural test even more...

[Jizmo]

This is so damn true!!  Lol
Stupid question, but u think I can recover from deca while using hcg on cycle and aggressive PCT after?  

Also, there is a study on hrt doses of test, even 100 mg a week lowers HDL. I agree with you, I'm trying to stay away from HRt for at least another 5-10 years.  

Instead of throwing the deca away, so I just use all of it and then be done with it?   Cause I'd hate to do another cycke with deca in a few months and inhibit my natural test even more...

show me that study... i call bullshit

[theworm]

show me that study... i call bullshit

125 mg a week, decreased HDL by 4 points after 16 weeks.

Who knows, may continue to decrease it with time:


http://m.ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172/T7.expansion.html

[Jizmo]

125 mg a week, decreased HDL by 4 points after 16 weeks.

Who knows, may continue to decrease it with time:


http://m.ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172/T7.expansion.html

well, there were 12 subjects in that group... total of 61 subjects
1. thats not representative at all
2. most interesting point: the 125mg test group achieved average test levles of 542 ng/dl, which is actually LOWER than average
3. HDL dropped in every single group except the 25mg one
4. the HDL levels at the end of the study are still rather high and far from "dangerous" (not even in the 600mg group)
5. no information on LDL levels, if they dropped too then this is actually a positive change.

[theworm]

well, there were 12 subjects in that group... total of 61 subjects
1. thats not representative at all
2. most interesting point: the 125mg test group achieved average test levles of 542 ng/dl, which is actually LOWER than average
3. HDL dropped in every single group except the 25mg one
4. the HDL levels at the end of the study are still rather high and far from "dangerous" (not even in the 600mg group)
5. no information on LDL levels, if they dropped too then this is actually a positive change.

Nevertheless, 125 mg decreased HDL....   Also increased hemoglobin
Not the healthiest shifts, especially since it wasn't a long term study...
Through in HCG, arimidex etc and those numbers would be even different

[Mayday]

I'm on HRT and it saved my life. My natural test levels were kaput and I suffered mentally as a result. Its a blessing for me.

The problem with 'is it bad' is you are asking to ignore all of the other bad shit you do to your body and looking to blame it all solely on HRT. That's never a good question and those studies suffer from that exact.problem as none of it is controlled 100% over a decade plus.

Look around at all the morbidly obese people still alive at 75.....is anyone going to say with a straight face that living a fit, lean life on hrt is worse? Let's get real here. Steroids are demonised to the point even looking at them is bad for you.

[equipoise]

I'm on HRT and it saved my life. My natural test levels were kaput and I suffered mentally as a result. Its a blessing for me.

The problem with 'is it bad' is you are asking to ignore all of the other bad shit you do to your body and looking to blame it all solely on HRT. That's never a good question and those studies suffer from that exact.problem as none of it is controlled 100% over a decade plus.

Look around at all the morbidly obese people still alive at 75.....is anyone going to say with a straight face that living a fit, lean life on hrt is worse? Let's get real here. Steroids are demonised to the point even looking at them is bad for you.

yeah, i was really moody and slightly depressed for about 6 years before hopping on test, now I have no more moodiness and greater drive and motivation to do things. At this point I don't care so much about the muscle (although its nice) but the mental wellbeing effects of test are profound.