Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: luvvsuNOT on September 09, 2011, 01:59:45 PM
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This guy claims he can get back in the same shape evne better than he was when he won Mr Canada 40 yrs ago? Is he just stirring up shit to get attention or is he serious. He calls hmself scientific but doesn't believe in reading books. Didnt he say you only need 25 grams of protein a day?
Instead making all these claims why don't you just prove it? Get off your fat ass and train for around 6 months and prove of us wrong.
"Do you believe that you could at this point in your life equal or surpass your 1970 Mr. Canada condition?"
Absolutely! Without any doubt whatever. I met a radiographer several years ago and she commented that my body hasn't
aged much compared to other men my age. She works in a large Sydney hospital and does X-Rays on thousands of people.
I wondered if it was my decades of hypertrophy training that has helped or if it is purely heredity.
Some people are doomed not to grow much from training. In Pellius' case it is his lifestyle where he competes in martial arts
and keeps his bodyweight down to stay in lighter classes. In addition, our ageing hero probably likes to stay lean because
he gets compliments for his condition. All that activity and staying lighter goes against building large muscles. If he were less
active he would have a better chance of growing bigger. All the steroids and gh in the world won't make you bigger unless
you eat heaps of extra food. It is as if he sabotaged any hope of ever getting bigger. That is the explanation for his failure
to get bigger. His need for hormone replacement might be because of poor advice from doctors who know almost zero about
hypertrophy. I have no need for any HRT and hope I never need such treatment. To hell with pills and injections that so many
rely on. What kind of mentality is that? No thanks. gh15 is the prophet of doom here on Getbig. What he recommends is insane and I fear
too many already subscribe to that nonsense. The inmates have overrun this asylum while logical and scientific blokes like
me are ridiculed.
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Get off your fat ass and train for around 6 months and prove of us wrong.
Don't talk to him like that.
(http://www.estateplanandassetprotection.com/Portals/31603/images/Learning%20to%20Speak%20Alzheimers.jpeg)
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Vince Basille is the real deal and really ws the winner of the IFBB Mr Canada back in the 70's.
He has sound souns basic advice on training and diet.
Having said that, as an over 50 guy myself, it is tough to get back in great shape as we get a lot older for a variety of reasons.
It can be done, BUT the buring desire has to be there and I am not sure if Vince has that mindset these days.
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Vince Basille is the real deal and really ws the winner of the IFBB Mr Canada back in the 70's.
He has sound souns basic advice on training and diet.
Having said that, as an over 50 guy myself, it is tough to get back in great shape as we get a lot older for a variety of reasons.
It can be done, BUT the buring desire has to be there and I am not sure if Vince has that mindset these days.
You can get in great shape. I'm not disputing that. but 40 ain't 25 and I think he's pushing close to 70 yo. At 50 you don't think you have lost anything physically then when you were 20. But that Imean the ability and potential. If you today and you at 25 were to follow the exact same training program nutrition and life style, after a year would the results be the same?
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You can get in great shape. I'm not disputing that. but 40 ain't 25 and I think he's pushing close to 70 yo. At 50 you don't think you have lost anything physically then when you were 20. But that Imean the ability and potential. If you today and you at 25 were to follow the exact same training program nutrition and life style, after a year would the results be the same?
being a typical meathead I did a lot of dumb, silly training and diet stuff back in the day.
When I did the intense 4 day a week Mentzer Heavy Duty routine I made really good gains.
The best thing any guy an do is get the Dorian Yates DVD called " Blood and Guts" and watch the Yates 4 days a week, routine.
He hits a body part one day a week and works up to one all out set of 8-10 reps.
Most guys today OVERtrain and fail to lift with really good form or intensity . They think drugs are magic potions and don't max out on the basic stuff like hard,intense training and a quality diet.
Sure drugs help, no question, but you need a foundation to build the rest of the house or it falls down.
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The old codger has mastered the art of trolling.
I first encountered him 8-10 years back. Always the same thing- "strength athletes and body builders are wrong, I will unleash a revolutionary theory of hypertrophy that will allow the young, old, and natural to experience unprecedented growth". Then folks afford him some measure of respect, even though lots of his stuff reads like bitter old man horseshit, because he knew Mentzer and Arnold, and was Mr. Yukon Territories 1907 or whatever the fuck.
People finally stop caring, and Vince decides that they are Flotsom and Jetsom unworthy of being blessed with his knowledge.
Same thing always, just different boards.
He's a fun troll though:).
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being a typical meathead I did a lot of dumb, silly training and diet stuff back in the day.
When I did the intense 4 day a week Mentzer Heavy Duty routine I made really good gains.
The best thing any guy an do is get the Dorian Yates DVD called " Blood and Guts" and watch the Yates 4 days a week, routine.
He hits a body part one day a week and works up to one all out set of 8-10 reps.
Most guys today OVERtrain and fail to lift with really good form or intensity . They think drugs are magic potions and don't max out on the basic stuff like hard,intense training and a quality diet.
Sure drugs help, no question, but you need a foundation to build the rest of the house or it falls down.
But you didnt answer the question. Do yo think at 50 you would respond the same way to training and diet as you did when you were 25? Im just not sure if Basile really belives this or is just stirring things up.
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Very entertaining poster,
Gives a fuck about BB.
Does not seem to give a fuck what anyone here thinks.
Knew Arnold.
Was a pro when it was more of a sport.
Is into the power of natural training.
Owns gym
Compassionate human too boot.
Vince is cool for sure. Deal with it.
Not sure about getting into 1970 shape in 2011 but good for him if he wants to have a go.
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Don't leave out teenage boy toucher when you're listing Basile accolades.
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That's fucked :-\
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The old codger has mastered the art of trolling.
I first encountered him 8-10 years back. Always the same thing- "strength athletes and body builders are wrong, I will unleash a revolutionary theory of hypertrophy that will allow the young, old, and natural to experience unprecedented growth". Then folks afford him some measure of respect, even though lots of his stuff reads like bitter old man horseshit, because he knew Mentzer and Arnold, and was Mr. Yukon Territories 1907 or whatever the fuck.
People finally stop caring, and Vince decides that they are Flotsom and Jetsom unworthy of being blessed with his knowledge.
Same thing always, just different boards.
He's a fun troll though:).
I actually like Basile because he is unique and follows no one. But that line about Mr. Yukon Territories 1907 is one of the funniest I've seen on this board.
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basile is a sex offender
and should be ignored
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LOL. Praise and blame fall away from me like rain from an umbrella. When posters have to resort to accusations of being a pedo that proves they are unable to dismiss my theories with anything intelligent or scientific. I know what I do for a number of reasons. I started training in 1958. I attended several universities so adopted the methods there for obtaining knowledge. I didn't follow what the magazines said about the protein requirement. Pellius still is unable to understand basic human nutrition. Mike Mentzer was probably the last highly intelligent bodybuilder and what a pity he is no longer with us.
The other factor that led me to discover important factors about hypertrophy was my laziness. I was a PE teacher for 10 years and also worked at my gym 6 days a week. I didn't have much time for training so had to be efficient and effective in what I did. However, I was influenced by the super-intelligent Arthur Jones and reduced the number of sets I was doing. Well, I had completely missed the most important factor in hypertrophy. Arthur knew about intensity and that is a necessary factor but not a sufficient one. You can make gains using his methods but only for a short period. Then you will plateau like just about everyone else in gyms around the world. Why is it that so few are still growing when they are busting their collective guts in the gym? No one knew. Mike thought it was overtraining. Lee Priest didn't believe there was any such thing and he was right. Mike and Arthur have misguided millions of bodybuilders. Howard subscribes to that method but it is truly limited.
How did my laziness lead to a discovery about hypertrophy? Well, most bodybuilders subscribe to the notion that you must train all bodyparts every week if you want to retain your size. That is simply false. You can do a couple of body parts and keep your size. I did exactly that when I tried to build my arms up in 1998. In one month I put over an inch on my arms and calves doing 10 workouts....every 3rd day. The key to hypertrophy is doing multiple sets with your maximum resistance. To obtain a big pump you have to keep the reps up. This also is beneficial because you don't cheat as much. So I advocate doing 15 reps for arms because by the time you reach your 3rd maximum set you will be down to about 10 reps. You can keep the reps up if you rest longer between sets. I also superset bis with tris. Exercise selection is absolutely crucial for hypertrophy. More in another post.
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I thought we had already hashed this over...
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Here come the ignorant Flotsam. I have better things to do than post for a bunch of assholes here.
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Here come the ignorant Flotsam. I have better things to do than post for a bunch of assholes here.
But....
you just replied anyway... and with a picture. Is that a contradiction, or do you have a way to rationalize this irony?
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IRL I wouldn't respond to anyone calling themselves dyslexic. I am a known bb champion and should be treated with more respect than some of you assholes give me.
I posted here as a response to those who would like to hear my theory on hypertrophy. If history has taught me anything then I completely overestimate the intelligence of the
average person here because they require to be spoonfed and I have no time for that. A properly explained theory should suffice for anyone capable of completing a degree
at university. Once you comprehend the theory it should be a simple matter to apply it via the technology available. Some people are simply incapable of doing any such thing. I
guess that partly explains why so few actually get really big. They simply don't have the right method or they don't apply it properly. Drugs can't do everything. That is a myth.
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I think if you explain the theory more that you will get some positive feedback. You'll also get some jokers, but just ignore them and don't engage them, simple as that.
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Vince, just shut up and post some nude pics of the fat whores you love so much!
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Vince, can you please expand on this. Perhaps with a sample workout plan?
Well, most bodybuilders subscribe to the notion that you must train all bodyparts every week if you want to retain your size. That is simply false. You can do a couple of body parts and keep your size. I did exactly that
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IRL I wouldn't respond to anyone calling themselves dyslexic. I am a known bb champion and should be treated with more respect than some of you assholes give me.
I posted here as a response to those who would like to hear my theory on hypertrophy. If history has taught me anything then I completely overestimate the intelligence of the
average person here because they require to be spoonfed and I have no time for that. A properly explained theory should suffice for anyone capable of completing a degree
at university. Once you comprehend the theory it should be a simple matter to apply it via the technology available. Some people are simply incapable of doing any such thing. I
guess that partly explains why so few actually get really big. They simply don't have the right method or they don't apply it properly. Drugs can't do everything. That is a myth.
sick pedo meltdown
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I am the epitome of sane and rational. Most of the dudes here can't be helped so think by putting down others they are some sort of internet heroes.
I behave the same whether it is online or in real life. I can't say that for the Flotsam.
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vince i seriously would like to discuss this training
if you would break it down what a week would look like
i am short on time also and am considering changing up my routine
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so you advocate HIT workouts with more frequency?
i am limited on the days that i can go to the gym also
i am thinking of a 4 day a week routine with legs getting a day to themselves
i wanted to go done to 3 day a week routine but felt that there would be no way that i could get everything in
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I am the epitome of sane and rational. Most of the dudes here can't be helped so think by putting down others they are some sort of internet heroes.
I behave the same whether it is online or in real life. I can't say that for the Flotsam.
Yet you put down Melvince no problem ? ???
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I am the epitome of sane and rational. Most of the dudes here can't be helped so think by putting down others they are some sort of internet heroes.
I behave the same whether it is online or in real life. I can't say that for the Flotsam.
of course not. that goes for 99% of the guys on here. do you think they go out in public and insult people like they do on here? come on. everyone is tough behind the key board. anyway vince answer my questions about training ;D
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Yet you put down Melvince no problem ? ???
in all fairness he really doesn't count does he? everybody on here does that
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All this bullshit and you still didn't adress any of my arguments from past thread. Can you please stop mumbling about your haters, science and other shit and start some solid discussion based on science?
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in all fairness he really doesn't count does he? everybody on here does that
HAHA This is true - but it still show's how much of a hypocrite Basil is
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vince basile is an expert
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When you say "multiple sets" how many sets are you talking about exactly? It sounds to me like your theroy is a HIT/Volume hybrid with a high frequency of training (every 72 hrs).
According to Mentzer/Jones volume is a negative while intensity is a postive (basically keep the intensity as high as possible while keeeping the volume to an absolute minimum).
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vince basile is an expert
I would dare say he has also has a few "issues..."
His response about the "big arms if I wanted to" still blows me away.
He condescends just as I do, but he states that he is "the same" in everyday life. That's kind of fucked up. Oh well, I wonder how many champions he has actually trained.
Many of us has achieved competition status, but I don't believe that we need to constantly pound that information in peoples faces to somehow justify our credibility on "theories" about bodybuilding and nutrition.
Oh well. Maybe I should change the color of my font?
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He doesn't even train anymore and never had much muscle anyway. Training gets boring over time but doesn't take long. Depends if you are committed to talking or acting.
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Vince is a man that should be respected. He posts as himself and hides from no one. The guy was a champion bodybuilder for fuck sakes. More than 99.9% of the pathetic fucks on this site. The man should be respected for his dedication, knowledge and longetivity.
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Here come the ignorant Flotsam. I have better things to do than post for a bunch of assholes here.
But yet you still do.
What are these so called "better things" you must do?
Get back to your Mr Canada condition??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
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Vince is a man that should be respected. He posts as himself and hides from no one. The guy was a champion bodybuilder for fuck sakes. More than 99.9% of the pathetic fucks on this site. The man should be respected for his dedication, knowledge and longetivity.
haha, says the in the closet homosexual, who posts rejected rejected gay penthouse forums fantasies. Post your real name and picture and back up what you post.
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I attended several universities...
Uncle Pervy, did you graduate from any of them? ::)
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Uncle Pervy, did you graduate from any of them? ::)
Yes...let's see your edumacation Vincey.
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IRL I wouldn't respond to anyone calling themselves dyslexic. I am a known bb champion and should be treated with more respect than some of you assholes give me.
haha holy shit, that's pathetic. You re hitting a new low with that post. What a loser, an old tired, out of shape has been who never was whoring for attention on an internet messageboard. That's what you actually are in the eyes of everyone browsing this board.
Look at yourself in the fucking mirror, you look like just any random 60 y/o guy who didnt lift a weight in his life.
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I came 2nd at a local level show. You motherfuckers should treat me with respect too.
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The key to hypertrophy is doing multiple sets with your maximum resistance. To obtain a big pump you have to keep the reps up. This also is beneficial because you don't cheat as much. So I advocate doing 15 reps for arms because by the time you reach your 3rd maximum set you will be down to about 10 reps. You can keep the reps up if you rest longer between sets.
you really think this is some revolutionary idea?
this is your issue, at the core. you think you are special, you have old man arrogance thinking you were greater than you were, and smarter/wiser than you really are now.
because no one agrees with you, we all must be stupid, crazy, or just disrespectfull 'youngins'
there is no 'theory of hypertrophy'. just the delusional ramblings of a bitter old man.
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you really think this is some revolutionary idea?
this is your issue, at the core. you think you are special, you have old man arrogance thinking you were greater than you were, and smarter/wiser than you really are now.
because no one agrees with you, we all must be stupid, crazy, or just disrespectfull 'youngins'
there is no 'theory of hypertrophy'. just the delusional ramblings of a bitter old man.
Probably has saggy, wrinkled, "old man" balls too.
Jus' sayin'. ;D
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Almost all training methods have been tried by someone long ago. That is probably true. However, there still is a lot of confusion re volume vs intensity when there should be no such thing. In addition, all the talk about 'it is all drugs' has stopped most serious hypertrophy training discussions.
There are physiological facts about hypertrophy and how a muscle grows. Every correct theory has to be consistent with these facts. There is probably only one correct theory so Mike Mentzer was right about this. It remains of interest how such a bright guy kept saying it was intensity that was the biggest factor in hypertrophy. Mike also believed recovery was paramount for success and claimed success with his students when he had them train less frequently. I believe Mike and many others are mistaken about needing more time. In fact you have to avoid recovery because then you encounter the repeated bout effect. The RBE is well documented in various studies using intense protocols.
Dr Jose Antonio had astonishing results in his experiments with fowl. 300% growth in one month! He obtained the best results and guess what the frequency was for adding resistance? Every 3rd day. That is also what I concluded from my training on the pinch grip. If I trained more frequently or less frequently I didn't improve. So I adopted that frequency to my hypertrophy training and grew 1/10 of an inch per training day over 1 month. I believe it might be possible to grow more rapidly than this but it might require longer training sessions. It would still be interesting to do this experiment. Someone with 2 free months where they could do nothing but train would be the ideal subjects for this experiment.
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Almost all training methods have been tried by someone long ago. That is probably true. However, there still is a lot of confusion re volume vs intensity when there should be no such thing. In addition, all the talk about 'it is all drugs' has stopped most serious hypertrophy training discussions.
There are physiological facts about hypertrophy and how a muscle grows. Every correct theory has to be consistent with these facts. There is probably only one correct theory so Mike Mentzer was right about this. It remains of interest how such a bright guy kept saying it was intensity that was the biggest factor in hypertrophy. Mike also believed recovery was paramount for success and claimed success with his students when he had them train less frequently. I believe Mike and many others are mistaken about needing more time. In fact you have to avoid recovery because then you encounter the repeated bout effect. The RBE is well documented in various studies using intense protocols.
Dr Jose Antonio had astonishing results in his experiments with fowl. 300% growth in one month! He obtained the best results and guess what the frequency was for adding resistance? Every 3rd day. That is also what I concluded from my training on the pinch grip. If I trained more frequently or less frequently I didn't improve. So I adopted that frequency to my hypertrophy training and grew 1/10 of an inch per training day over 1 month. I believe it might be possible to grow more rapidly than this but it might require longer training sessions. It would still be interesting to do this experiment. Someone with 2 free months where they could do nothing but train would be the ideal subjects for this experiment.
Are you agreeing with Mentzer ? Remember he was a guy loaded on so many drugs and not just AAS :-\
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I see Basile as a very clever, extremely passive aggressive sociopath who only dates and fucks fat chicks because of some unresolved childhood insecurities about his own body. He once had a decent physique but didn't have the discipline to stay on any type of real diet. So instead of buckling down and getting himself in shape, he just hangs around severely overweight women who make him feel good about the "bodybuilder" he once was. :-\
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The ideal situation would be to include what Mike found into the Field Theory of Hypertrophy. People have been asking if Ray and Mike trained briefly or did they do more volume. I didn't actually train
with Ray but he had a good routine where he trained body parts twice per week. Once directly and once indirectly. He was already huge when he stayed at our place so I guess his brief workouts were sufficient
to keep that size. Intensity is an interesting subject and hasn't been understood by everyone. Basically if refers to the % of a 1 rep maximum that can lifted. Anyone who has competed in power lifting contests
knows that extreme soreness can result from those maximum lifts. So intensity is an important factor. What is missing is the volume. Why? Well, look at how big Arnold's arms were. I measured them in 1968 at 21
1/2 inches. I also measured his height in 1969 and he was 6 1 1/2in at night at Mitz Gym in Honolulu. Well, could he throw the shot put really far with those huge arms? No, not really. So what the heck are those
huge arms good for? Answer: intense muscular endurance. Not the kind of endurance for marathons but the kind where you move a reasonably heavy resistance many times. Thus training should be exactly like
this. The key is doing multiple sets with the maximum resistance. I advocate at least 5 maximum sets and perhaps more. How do you know if you have done enough? You must be sore the days following training.
That is essential for rapid growth.
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I see Basile as a very clever, extremely passive aggressive sociopath who only dates and fucks fat chicks because of some unresolved childhood insecurities about his own body. He once had a decent physique but didn't have the discipline to stay on any type of real diet. So instead of buckling down and getting himself in shape, he just hangs around severely overweight women who make him feel good about the "bodybuilder" he once was. :-\
LOL. I like the part of being a sociopath. Even people who know me don't understand my lifestyle. Your theory isn't right but nice try.
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LOL. I like the part of being a sociopath. Even people who know me don't understand my lifestyle. Your theory isn't right but nice try.
Just playing Basile. You know that... ;)
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To the students of hypertrophy out there. Here is a simple experiment you can do to test my theory. If you don't grow rapidly....and are eating sufficient food....then my theory is false and must be
discarded. Okay, here is what you do. Select whatever exercise you want for biceps. Train in any fashion you want using reasonably heavy resistance but you must generate severe soreness in your biceps that
lasts several days. Retrain on the 3rd day even if still sore. After a few sets things will be fine. Keep the muscle sore. That is the key to rapid hypertrophy. Once you get to your maximum resistance then stay
there for many sets. If you can't generate soreness then choose another exercise or do more maximum sets or both. If you cannot generate soreness you will NOT grow rapidly.
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Ok I quit, you are an idiot. You just WILL NOT debate about testosterone and its influence on muscle and then about testosterone decrease with age. Please just stop thinking you're intelligent. You are not. All you can do is write your meaningless bunk.
You would not solve any math problem or any real problem at all. Keep writing and fooling yourself you're smartass here.
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I swear this forum would be infinitely better if they banned all males under 5-7!
I am telling you that I don't have any perceptible decrease of testosterone because I generate hypertrophy easier now than when I was young.
I haven't been tested for hormone levels but my muscles haven't shrunk significantly over the years. My calves are the biggest they have ever been.
It is my opinion that stimulating hypertrophy will have the body increase hormone levels to assist growth.
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Flotsam. Lee Priest. Hypertrophy. Size acceptance.
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so whats your proposed bicep workout then? Also biceps can be a fairly hard muscle to generate sorness in at least for myself I would guess some sort of very slow negative may be best for this. if someone just did say there bis or bis and tris they would still have to structure the workout to match the indirect work the muscles receive. I could see it actually working good for biceps mabey tricpes but it would kick your ass doing the whole body in this manner. It may be tolerable if you used machines
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Are you agreeing with Mentzer ?
hey, anyone who drinks his own piss is alright in basils eyes
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To reply to chess. I picked biceps because it is a muscle that intermediate and advanced trainees seldom get sore no matter what they do. That is the point. Get them sore and you will grow.
You could come to my gym and use my biceps-supinator invention. It is the only one in the world. You would need some instructions about how to use it properly and effectively. It puts tension on the flexing function and the twisting or supinating function of the biceps. This can be a brutal workout if done properly.
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Looks like a time machine.
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I am quite proud of the machine because even the great Arthur Jones of Nautilus never built one. He was the person who alerted me to the different functions of the biceps and how important supination was.
I believe it is the most complicated conventional machine for the upper body ever installed in a gym. It has 21 pulleys and 9 different adjustments. It is probably the only original biceps machine built in the last
30 years.
Btw, my comment about what big muscles are good at needs clarifying. Big muscles are good at doing set after set after set after set after set with a big resistance. So that is how you train. Each set taken to the point where you can't do any more reps. Don't get people to help you because then you will always need them. Simply do more sets. Exercise selection will be crucial as you get bigger. Some exercises that were effective may not be so as you grow bigger. You don't need heaps of different exercises, just one effective one repeated many times. Warm up with light sets but go to your limit on each and every set.
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To the students of hypertrophy out there. Here is a simple experiment you can do to test my theory. If you don't grow rapidly....and are eating sufficient food....then my theory is false and must be
discarded. Okay, here is what you do. Select whatever exercise you want for biceps. Train in any fashion you want using reasonably heavy resistance but you must generate severe soreness in your biceps that
lasts several days. Retrain on the 3rd day even if still sore. After a few sets things will be fine. Keep the muscle sore. That is the key to rapid hypertrophy. Once you get to your maximum resistance then stay
there for many sets. If you can't generate soreness then choose another exercise or do more maximum sets or both. If you cannot generate soreness you will NOT grow rapidly.
So you're suggesting one exercise with multiple sets for every body part? Train the entire body this way hitting each body part every third day? How long should you keep this type of routine up?
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To reply to chess. I picked biceps because it is a muscle that intermediate and advanced trainees seldom get sore no matter what they do. That is the point. Get them sore and you will grow.
You could come to my gym and use my biceps-supinator invention. It is the only one in the world. You would need some instructions about how to use it properly and effectively. It puts tension on the flexing function and the twisting or supinating function of the biceps. This can be a brutal workout if done properly.
Looks like something out of the movie Terminator.
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I am quite proud of the machine because even the great Arthur Jones of Nautilus never built one. He was the person who alerted me to the different functions of the biceps and how important supination was.
I believe it is the most complicated conventional machine for the upper body ever installed in a gym. It has 21 pulleys and 9 different adjustments. It is probably the only original biceps machine built in the last
30 years.
Btw, my comment about what big muscles are good at needs clarifying. Big muscles are good at doing set after set after set after set after set with a big resistance. So that is how you train. Each set taken to the point where you can't do any more reps. Don't get people to help you because then you will always need them. Simply do more sets. Exercise selection will be crucial as you get bigger. Some exercises that were effective may not be so as you grow bigger. You don't need heaps of different exercises, just one effective one repeated many times. Warm up with light sets but go to your limit on each and every set.
Looks like a great machine Vince & is a tremendous accomplishment to go thru the design, R&D + manufacture of such a piece.
Bet everyone on here would like to give it a go.
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So you're suggesting one exercise with multiple sets for every body part? Train the entire body this way hitting each body part every third day? How long should you keep this type of routine up?
Did I say that? Not at all. Just train your arms for a month every third day. Your upper body won't shrink and might even get bigger. This is one idea most won't accept. Throw out your ideas if
you want to embrace my methods. If you did arms on M Th Su W.... then you could do Thighs on Tu F M Th etc. That would be the limit. Don't try to get the whole body sore! That would be
very unpleasant and might tax your systems. Arms and calves are a good combo. Triceps and Lats supersetted is another good combo.
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Looks like a great machine Vince & is a tremendous accomplishment to go thru the design, R&D + manufacture of such a piece.
Bet everyone on here would like to give it a go.
My son, Zorba who is a qualified exercise scientist, and I both value this machine. So do some of our members. The bodybuilders not so much. However, when Zorba
shows them how to use it properly they are impressed. As you know most bodybuilders are experts when their arms are over 16 1/2 inches
so they believe free weights are best. It is like knocking on wood.
The machine has gone through several modifications and one major modification. It took years to have enough confidence to build it. I built every part of it except the bigger pulleys.
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Did I say that? Not at all. Just train your arms for a month every third day. Your upper body won't shrink and might even get bigger. This is one idea most won't accept. Throw out your ideas if
you want to embrace my methods. If you did arms on M Th Su W.... then you could do Thighs on Tu F M Th etc. That would be the limit. Don't try to get the whole body sore! That would be
very unpleasant and might tax your systems. Arms and calves are a good combo. Triceps and Lats supersetted is another good combo.
So your method could be used to bring up a lagging body part? Once you brought up that body part, each month you could pick one other muscle group and use your method to increase muscular size one part at a time while continuing to train using a traditional bodybuilding routine?
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My son, Zorba who is a qualified exercise scientist, and I both value this machine. So do some of our members. The bodybuilders not so much. However, when Zorba
shows them how to use it properly they are impressed. As you know most bodybuilders are experts when their arms are over 16 1/2 inches
so they believe free weights are best. It is like knocking on wood.
The machine has gone through several modifications and one major modification. It took years to have enough confidence to build it. I built every part of it except the bigger pulleys.
Zorba The Greek
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So your method could be used to bring up a lagging body part? Once you brought up that body part, each month you could pick one other muscle group and use your method to increase muscular size one part at a time while continuing to train using a traditional bodybuilding routine?
This is an interesting point. I am lazy so why train a bodypart if it isn't going to be bigger? That doesn't seem smart. If you trained arms like I suggest for a month see if the rest of your upper body has shrunk. I doubt it will. If not then you can target particular muscles and know that the others will remain about the same. Of course, I don't know how long this process can last where you gain rapidly. Perhaps a couple of months before diminishing returns present. No one knows this because it hasn't been tried yet. Finally, we have an alternative to drugs. Yes, of course those who use drugs will probably gain even more muscle if they train like this. That isn't why I am posting this information.
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This is an interesting point. I am lazy so why train a bodypart if it isn't going to be bigger? That doesn't seem smart. If you trained arms like I suggest for a month see if the rest of your upper body has shrunk. I doubt it will. If not then you can target particular muscles and know that the others will remain about the same. Of course, I don't know how long this process can last where you gain rapidly. Perhaps a couple of months before diminishing returns present. No one knows this because it hasn't been tried yet. Finally, we have an alternative to drugs. Yes, of course those who use drugs will probably gain even more muscle if they train like this. That isn't why I am posting this information.
I am going to give a lot of consideration to undertaking what I wrote in my last post. After training consistently for sixteen years, and a total of twenty, without the best genetics, I need to try something besides traditional bodybuliding. At this point I measure my gains in years and it would be much more motivating to measure my gains in months. Thanks.
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Basile ?
(http://imgur.com/5L5Ii.jpg)
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This is an interesting point. I am lazy so why train a bodypart if it isn't going to be bigger? That doesn't seem smart. Maybe it's not ideal for you, but if you enjoy the feeling that training gives you which I do it is well worth it. If you trained arms like I suggest for a month see if the rest of your upper body has shrunk. I doubt it will. If not then you can target particular muscles and know that the others will remain about the same. Of course, I don't know how long this process can last where you gain rapidly. Perhaps a couple of months before diminishing returns present. No one knows this because it hasn't been tried yet. Finally, we have an alternative to drugs. Yes, of course those who use drugs will probably gain even more muscle if they train like this. That isn't why I am posting this information.
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I am going to give a lot of consideration to undertaking what I wrote in my last post. After training consistently for sixteen years, and a total of twenty, without the best genetics, I need to try something besides traditional bodybuliding. At this point I measure my gains in years and it would be much more motivating to measure my gains in months. Thanks.
There are some who will suggest that the DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) requirement is nonsense. Or they suggest the gains are merely inflammation. I can cite a study by an exercise scientist who found that DOMS indicated hypertrophy. They just weren't looking for that. Most studies on DOMS were to lessen the pain following training. Few saw the importance of this effect. It is a physiological effect of damage in a muscle and remodelling soon occurs. That is why you don't train the next day. On the 3rd day you hit it again. The whole idea is to prevent the Repeated Bout Effect from occurring where you don't gain from doing the same thing. Naturally, you have to use progressively heavier weights as you grow. Make sure you avoid injuries. Never place your elbows on surfaces while exercising. Most biceps machines are bad in this regard because the pads are under the elbows. The same thing goes for the triceps. For calf training do not do ballistic movements. They will eventually damage your Achilles tendons. I know this from experience. You can't grow if you get injured. When you can measure your arms bigger the following day after training it feels great. You will be running to the gym to do another workout.
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I swear this forum would be infinitely better if they banned all males under 5-7!
I am telling you that I don't have any perceptible decrease of testosterone because I generate hypertrophy easier now than when I was young.
I haven't been tested for hormone levels but my muscles haven't shrunk significantly over the years. My calves are the biggest they have ever been.
It is my opinion that stimulating hypertrophy will have the body increase hormone levels to assist growth.
hahaha you are deluded ::)
Your muscles have shrunk, size does not = muscle dumbass - you are fat end of story.
Your homone/testosterone levels will be low for two reasons 1. your age 2. you are fat
Your calf's may well be bigger but all fat people have big calfs it is cos , well you/they are fat, carrying round all that lard forces your calfs to grow from carrying the weight - there simple enough for you ? ffs I swear you are clueless at times.
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To reply to chess. I picked biceps because it is a muscle that intermediate and advanced trainees seldom get sore no matter what they do. That is the point. Get them sore and you will grow.
You could come to my gym and use my biceps-supinator invention. It is the only one in the world. You would need some instructions about how to use it properly and effectively. It puts tension on the flexing function and the twisting or supinating function of the biceps. This can be a brutal workout if done properly.
The machine looks amazing, I'm sure it would be a blast to try out. Oddly your face looks photoshopped onto somebody else's body in that picture.
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Lol. Yes, being vain I removed the double chin from the photo! Good catch. The photo was taken off a mirror so I had to paint a lot of the photo to remove flash noise.
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Given soreness is the key would the easiest way to achieve this be to do a different exercise (for the same bodypart) repeated multiple times in one session? Then a different exercise in 3 days etc etc. I find that when i do not do an exercise for a while and then come back to it I am more sore the next day.
Or alternatively do low rep one workout and high rep the next (assuming doing max sets with both). Same thing in terms of the soreness I get.
Or is it much more preferable & crucial - as you seem to indicate- to at least aim to do the same exercise preferably every 3 days, keeping around 15 reps? But this may potentially mean a few 'wasted' workouts as the body may adjust after a few sessions and not get sore(which you can only tell in the following days)?
thanks
These are good questions. However, you are already trying to modify what I have given here. It really is quite simple. Use your brain and methods and good luck. Or use my experience and brain and save yourself the trouble. As an aside let me tell you about some women I have known. I can give them advice about doing things on their computer but they can't follow instructions step by step. Nope, they go ahead and try things and end up confused and not getting it to work.
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To reply to chess. I picked biceps because it is a muscle that intermediate and advanced trainees seldom get sore no matter what they do. That is the point. Get them sore and you will grow.
You could come to my gym and use my biceps-supinator invention. It is the only one in the world. You would need some instructions about how to use it properly and effectively. It puts tension on the flexing function and the twisting or supinating function of the biceps. This can be a brutal workout if done properly.
Is there any page or site where I can see those inventions of yours, because that machine looks great. Not expedient, but great. You seem to be master of the overcomplicated machines, and those I like, because I prefer to make machines as simple as possible. We are kind of at the opposite end of this subject and just as yourself, I have been building prototypes as well :)
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Why is the text in purple and why so long winded?
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Here is my experience re triceps. You have to do the best exercise you can that is both effective and safe. So what do you do? Forget pressdowns except for a warmup. I don't do them any more.
When you put a muscle in a stretched position it puts more tension on it when exercised so that position is more effective. You do this for triceps by having your elbows beside your head. You keep your upper arms on a pad and then reach as far as you can back and then extend to the full extension because the last few degrees is where the triceps contract the most. You keep your elbows beside your head and you don't let them move away. Neither do you let your arms move off the pads nor your body to lift higher. This is what will happen if the weight is too heavy. People cheat and then wonder why their arms don't grow. You have to put severe mechanical tension on your triceps for a total time of from 1 to 2 minutes. When you consider that it is only the last couple of reps that does this then that is why you need to do so many sets. So each maximum set might result in perhaps 10 seconds of severe tension. After 6 sets you would have totalled 60 seconds of severe tension. This might be enough. You always go by how sore you are the next day. If you are not quite sore then you might have to repeat the program without waiting an additional day. DOMS is a gift to tell you when you are growing.
So fooling around with all manner of exercises is counterproductive. You do that only when you fail to generate any DOMS in the target muscle. Doing the same exercise isn't a requirement but why make things more difficult than they are. The simplest means is what I strive for. Do the most effective exercise for each body part. Your muscles won't know which exercise you are doing.
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Why is the text in purple and why so long winded?
The text is in navy and I choose it to make my posts different. Even when I try to explain things in detail people get it wrong. So I try to anticipate what people might ask.
This is purple fonts.
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Is there any page or site where I can see those inventions of yours, because that machine looks great. Not expedient, but great. You seem to be master of the overcomplicated machines, and those I like, because I prefer to make machines as simple as possible. We are kind of at the opposite end of this subject and just as yourself, I have been building prototypes as well :)
I, too, aim to make machines as simple as possible. As far as I know I was the first person to use linear motion bearings in a Smith Machine and now everyone does that. I made my first one about 1982 or 83. When you are designing a machine that gives resistance in two degrees of freedom (like the biceps-supinator) how do you achieve this? Well, I put a pulley at a rotational point and that allowed me to have two resistances as the same time. One for flexing the arm and another for twisting it.
You are fortunate that I posted my machine here. I don't allow photos of my equipment at my gym. I am afraid you will have to do your own work here, but thanks for being interested in what I have built. Of course if you visit my gym you can have a go on them.
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Here is my experience re triceps. You have to do the best exercise you can that is both effective and safe. So what do you do? Forget pressdowns except for a warmup. I don't do them any more.
When you put a muscle in a stretched position it puts more tension on it when exercised so that position is more effective. You do this for triceps by having your elbows beside your head. You keep your upper arms on a pad and then reach as far as you can back and then extend to the full extension because the last few degrees is where the triceps contract the most. You keep your elbows beside your head and you don't let them move away. Neither do you let your arms move off the pads nor your body to lift higher. This is what will happen if the weight is too heavy. People cheat and then wonder why their arms don't grow. You have to put severe mechanical tension on your triceps for a total time of from 1 to 2 minutes. When you consider that it is only the last couple of reps that does this then that is why you need to do so many sets. So each maximum set might result in perhaps 10 seconds of severe tension. After 6 sets you would have totalled 60 seconds of severe tension. This might be enough. You always go by how sore you are the next day. If you are not quite sore then you might have to repeat the program without waiting an additional day. DOMS is a gift to tell you when you are growing.
So fooling around with all manner of exercises is counterproductive. You do that only when you fail to generate any DOMS in the target muscle. Doing the same exercise isn't a requirement but why make things more difficult than they are. The simplest means is what I strive for. Do the most effective exercise for each body part. Your muscles won't know which exercise you are doing.
See this is a decent post from you and is respected well from myself anyway.
Having the triceps in a pre-stretched position like this works the long head more - it is true you cannot isolate just one area of a muscle with one exercise but certain exercises to tend to place more stress on a certain area eg. inclines work upper pecs harder and benching on flat more mid to lower - in your case overhead works the whole tricep but places more stress on the long head - what exercises do you think are best for medial or lateral head of the tricep or do you just use the overhead movement ?
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I haven't been able to isolate the three heads of the triceps when training. One of the best machines out there is the MedX triceps. It is the only machine that puts much more resistance in the last part of the extension. The handles could be improved but I rate it as an excellent machine. Another to consider is the pressdown machine. I haven't made one yet but the guys who have used them tell me to make one.
You have to understand that I injured my triceps in 1965 doing heavy pullovers on a bench. I was using up to 250 pounds and my tris got painfully sore. That pain persisted for 6 months. I was able to train around it by doing high reps on the pressdowns for a few sets. Somehow, once gorged with blood the pain subsides. Quite an interesting phenomenon. I would expect the extensions as pictured in the photo would hurt the elbows but it does not. As long as I warm up first. I do a set of 40 reps, add a plate and do about 30, and so on. I have a Nautilus triceps machine that I modified to resemble the lying extensions.
Doing French presses behind your neck on an incline will kill the elbows. So do most skull crunchers. Avoid these. You can do a Larry Scott variation where he does circles with an ezycurl bar. Start extended over your chest and lower in a circle to your tummy then bring the bar along the chest and then up when it is at eye level. Very effective and relatively safe to do.
Never put your elbows on pads when doing extensions. You will damage the sheath that covers the elbow joint and it will remain sore for ages.
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I haven't been able to isolate the three heads of the triceps when training. One of the best machines out there is the MedX triceps. It is the only machine that puts much more resistance in the last part of the extension. The handles could be improved but I rate it as an excellent machine. Another to consider is the pressdown machine. I haven't made one yet but the guys who have used them tell me to make one.
You have to understand that I injured my triceps in 1965 doing heavy pullovers on a bench. I was using up to 250 pounds and my tris got painfully sore. That pain persisted for 6 months. I was able to train around it by doing high reps on the pressdowns for a few sets. Somehow, once gorged with blood the pain subsides. Quite an interesting phenomenon. I would expect the extensions as pictured in the photo would hurt the elbows but it does not. As long as I warm up first. I do a set of 40 reps, add a plate and do about 30, and so on. I have a Nautilus triceps machine that I modified to resemble the lying extensions.
Doing French presses behind your neck on an incline will kill the elbows. So do most skull crunchers. Avoid these. You can do a Larry Scott variation where he does circles with an ezycurl bar. Start extended over your chest and lower in a circle to your tummy then bring the bar along the chest and then up when it is at eye level. Very effective and relatively safe to do.
Never put your elbows on pads when doing extensions. You will damage the sheath that covers the elbow joint and it will remain sore for ages.
Thanks :) - Im going to give the exercise you posted above a Try and see how I like it - something different and extra variety is always good 8)
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Thanks :) - Im going to give the exercise you posted above a Try and see how I like it - something different and extra variety is always good 8)
This is what I invited Luke Wood to try at my gym. He never came over. They don't have a machine like this at Gold's, Venice. I have three in my gym plus the Nautilus version.
Notice this one has adjustable pads that keep the elbows from going out too wide.
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This is what I invited Luke Wood to try at my gym. He never came over. They don't have a machine like this at Gold's, Venice. I have three in my gym.
Notice this one has adjustable pads that keep the elbows from going out too wide.
I will try and copy it but it wont be the same as using one of your benches of course so not the same effects but if I can get close to it I'll be happy.
I have an idea on a couple of the benches at my gym - will try them and see how it goes :)
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I am the epitome of sane and rational. Most of the dudes here can't be helped so think by putting down others they are some sort of internet heroes.
I behave the same whether it is online or in real life. I can't say that for the Flotsam.
^^
I think the whole secret is just "ignoring the ignorant". We give them incentive by responding, good people here respect your posts and would LOVE more training info from you...
P.S. Vancouver here BTW... ;D
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Post a shirtless picture.
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Cheers Vince
Final question - any nutrional guidelines (macros, timing etc.) beyond calorie surplus?
Nutrition is important but not overly so. Of course if you read the magazines you might believe otherwise. We sold no supplements at our gym for over 25 years. My ex said the guys went and bought them elsewhere so we were losing money. She was right. You can't change what people believe. I tell my members what I believe but they still buy protein powder, etc. Now I refer them to a staff member who will tell them what they want to hear!
There is a lot of research out there on nutrition. I am not an expert in this field but I base my information on thick textbooks used by graduate students in nutrition at universities. A balanced diet is necessary and this will give you ALL the nutrients you need. You don't need extra protein. Hard to believe but this is true. Most young fellows cannot grow muscle because they lack energy. It is as simple as that. I had to force-feed myself for over 20 years when competing because I couldn't eat enough. I had to find foods high in calories and eat or drink them. They don't have half and half in Australia but I used to love that mixed with strawberry Nestles Quik. I took that to parties! Ah, the good old days.
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Post a shirtless picture.
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year 2005 and 1970something, same pose.
(http://champion.pl/images/pokaz2a.jpg)
(http://champion.pl/images/pokaz2.jpg)
That's for example late owner of my gym, former Polish national champion in his prime and some years later. Can you see muscle loss and fat gain? And you have to take into account that he built his muscle without any diet (he lived in communism, it was hard to get enough protein coz you didn't buy food - you were given food according to what was your work and you couldn't buy more). Nowadays with all the advances, diet, knowledge gained throughout the years he still couldn't regain that shape.
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This picture is much better than the black and white one you usually post of the Mr. Canada trophy.
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Anyway how can you say you have same amount of muscle while in pictures you clearly have around 20% bf. In pictures from 70's you have 8% bf. You're delusional, that's all.
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I don't claim to be in shape. Like most of us I think I look okay in the mirror but look fat when a photo is taken. I could get into similar condition of 1975 by persistent training and then dieting. The trouble is that now when I diet I tend to lose muscle and not fat. It isn't as easy to lose fat at my age. However, I can still build muscle and that is the important thing.
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I don't claim to be in shape. Like most of us I think I look okay in the mirror but look fat when a photo is taken. I could get into similar condition of 1975 by persistent training and then dieting. The trouble is that now when I diet I tend to lose muscle and not fat. It isn't as easy to lose fat at my age. However, I can still build muscle and that is the important thing.
Could have, would have, should have...
Do it, prove it, show it.
"The trouble is that now when I diet I tend to lose muscle and not fat. It isn't as easy to lose fat at my age."
THAT'S IT. THAT IS TESTOSTERONE, maybe thyroid levels as well. And you DONT know it's muscle unless you're low bodyfat. You just don't. You need HRT to get in that shape.
You SHOULD do bloodwork. Having low testosterone is unhealthy, may cause many problems. Having thyroid levels fucked up may cause many problems. Your problem with loosing fat is a fucking testimony to the fact that your hormone levels are fucked up.
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interesting posts vince.
i used to be deathly afraid of losing muscle by trying something new or "not working hard enough."
now that i've been pretty much forced to stop working out, i realize it's not too easy to lose muscle, and that i should have tried more things to see what was really necessary.
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Yes, building muscle at almost 70 seems impossible but I have no doubt it can be done. I had a workout on triceps and lats today so will see how sore I am tomorrow. Once I get to the size I want I will try to get into reasonable condition for the beach. I retired from competition in 1975. There is no rush. When I have something to show Getbig will be the first to know.
I have no interest in getting hormone levels tested. I don't want to get on anything because it defeats the purpose of the experiment. Nor would I in any case. Just not interested.
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You're not interested in being healthy?
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you have to use progressively heavier weights as you grow.
This right here is the key, if one is able to use progressively heavier and heavier training weights then their muscles will get larger FACT
So Vince, over that one month training period where your arms gained one inch, what were your strength increases like? And don't tell me that your strength didn't go up, coz it had to if your muscles went up in size.
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Well, I had a rapid increase in strength especially in the triceps. I started with doing reps at about 6 plates and graduated to using 9 plates after 10 workouts.
For calves the gains were astronomical. I built a calf machine that has 1000 pounds on it. I got up to doing sets of 60+ reps with 700 pounds. These were bouncing
partial reps. I don't recommend the bouncing now because it might damage the Achilles tendons. I could do a set at the weight, walk around in two small circles and
keep repeating that for perhaps 10 sets. My calves were 18 1/4 cold after that month. Curse the injury.
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But you didnt answer the question. Do yo think at 50 you would respond the same way to training and diet as you did when you were 25? Im just not sure if Basile really belives this or is just stirring things up.
In any physical activity you will start to see a gradual fail off in performance in your 40's for most folks.
After 50 yrs of age EVERY athlete is less then 100% of their former peak and slowly dropping.
Since I a normal 52 yr old, I have no doubt the best I could do is about 90% of my previous best in my mid 30's.
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Vince Imbasile.
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In any physical activity you will start to see a gradual fail off in performance in your 40's for most folks.
After 50 yrs of age EVERY athlete is less then 100% of their former peak and slowly dropping.
Since I am a normal 52 yr old, I have no doubt the best I could do is about 90% of my previous best in my mid 30's.
This is the commonly accepted story of the gradual decline over the years. Your eyesight will diminish as you approach 50, you lose hair,
you go grey, you lose melanin in your skin, you lose some strength, etc. However, what if is possible to keep your muscles
growing as you age? That is my point that few seem to understand. This is something new. Well, not to everyone but to
most people who exercise. Some older guys have obtained good results. Were they as good as in the past? Well, perhaps
not, although we don't know if they stimulated hypertrophy consistently or not. Most bodybuilders tend to evolve ways of
training and then seldom change their basic ideas. Few believe they might have been wrong about basic things.
It is my opinion that almost everyone is wrong about protein requirement and I think recovery re hypertrophy.
I don't have all the answers but it would be exciting if my ideas were tried out. I am talking about physiological processes.
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This is the commonly accepted story of the gradual decline over the years. Your eyesight will diminish as you approach 50, you lose hair,
you go grey, you lose melanin in your skin, you lose some strength, etc. However, what if is possible to keep your muscles
growing as you age? That is my point that few seem to understand. This is something new. Well, not to everyone but to
most people who exercise. Some older guys have obtained good results. Were they as good as in the past? Well, perhaps
not, although we don't know if they stimulated hypertrophy consistently or not. Most bodybuilders tend to evolve ways of
training and then seldom change their basic ideas. Few believe they might have been wrong about basic things.
It is my opinion that almost everyone is wrong about protein requirement and I think recovery re hypertrophy.
I don't have all the answers but it would be exciting if my ideas were tried out. I am talking about physiological processes.
Translation : I look like absolute shit .
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This is the commonly accepted story of the gradual decline over the years. Your eyesight will diminish as you approach 50, you lose hair,
you go grey, you lose melanin in your skin, you lose some strength, etc. However, what if is possible to keep your muscles
growing as you age? That is my point that few seem to understand. This is something new. Well, not to everyone but to
most people who exercise. Some older guys have obtained good results. Were they as good as in the past? Well, perhaps
not, although we don't know if they stimulated hypertrophy consistently or not. Most bodybuilders tend to evolve ways of
training and then seldom change their basic ideas. Few believe they might have been wrong about basic things.
It is my opinion that almost everyone is wrong about protein requirement and I think recovery re hypertrophy.
I don't have all the answers but it would be exciting if my ideas were tried out. I am talking about physiological processes.
Good post.
Reading Bill Pearl's books helps you to keep the faith too (and, of course, looking at the pics)
Bill Pearl absolutely does NOT believe in "creeping rigormortis" ~ he say's it's because people in this country are brainwashed into believing that everything goes downhill after 40.
It's all in your head.
"What the mind can conceive..."
(No Vince, this is not my alternate personality, I just like to mess with you from time to time.. blame on my refusal to grow up)