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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: War-Horse on November 09, 2012, 12:31:33 PM
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Before unions, employers would say we need someone to work 8 hrs a day....as time went on 10hrs a day....then 12hr. If you couldnt do it then there are 10 guys that would.
Then the employer say Hey we need you to take a paycut to increase our profits...if you dont...then someone else will. This went on and on and on. Pretty soon we had children working coal mines 14hrs a day for minimum wages.
If a guy stood up alone he lost his job, so he said lets all stand up together.
The problem still exists. I will do the job for 25 an hour. My neighbor will take my job for 12 an hour. The guy down the street will take 6 an hour. Another guy will work for a loaf of bread to feed his family for the day. Its a race to the bottom!
Do you see how great it is to own a business? Unregulated by conscience or ethics.
Now lets consider the union worker who is resented by people because he has a middleclass income. 50-80k a year. This guy spends ALL HE MAKES AND IT POURS INTO THE LOCAL ECONOMY. This helps all business around him.
What about the CEO? He takes his millions a year and hides into tax sheltered accounts and hideaways....This takes the money out of circulation and hurts the economy.
See I dont mind if workers are paid well....because we get it back. And also most companies around the union try to stay competitive in that area. Without unions at all.......NO STANDARDS WOULD BE EXPECTED IN A LIVING WAGE JOB.
Now is there corruptness in the union? Yes. But the corporate corruptness has a greater effect on the economy.
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Unions can have a bad name, but I know several companies that will only hire union workers.
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They were very good before the government had oversight into employee workings... Mostly bad these days.
Some are helpful... some just rob from their union brethren to give money and perks to the people up top.
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But can you see how HAPPY CEO'S would be if they werent holding to some standard of living? They would be pitting us against eachother to see who would work the most hours for the least money. Theirs always someone more desperate than you...its crazy.
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I do see your point, but like I said, there has to be some sort of compromise on some things. Just like I said in an earlier thread, that Ford closed it's Norfolk Assembly Plant because the guys would not take less money. Ford said, fuck you, and moved it's operations elsewhere. they told people they could relocate, and paid people a severance, but they were still out of work. All because they would not budge. Assembly line workers came in at $17.89 and hour. Ford wanted them to take a paycut because times got tight. Now everybody loses. I have 8 employees (7 that actually work, lol) and I believe that I pay them fair. Three are on salary, and the rest are hourly. I try to pay them what they are worth, and give them bonuses based on performance, because I can't always afford to give them raises, because I'd have to take them away in tight times. I keep enough to pay these guys for 6 weeks, even if I had no work. I will pay them for the Thanksgiving week, and also Christmas vacation. they get one week paid sick time and one week paid vacation. But, if they were part of some union, I would be broke trying to acquiesce to their demands. I am the one who has to make sure that these guys have work on the books for weeks at a time. I am the one who pays out, literally, hundreds of thousand of dollars in materials and equipment yearly. they get to go home at night and only worry about their problems. I go home and have to worry about everybodies problems. Like I said, that's why I don't do work in union states. I have to go tit for tat with equipment operators, one from the union and one from me. I would have to pay fringe that only portions go to the employee. Try to do a project up north and not hire union guys, then try and get concrete. If you aren't on a Federal project, good luck.
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I do see your point, but like I said, there has to be some sort of compromise on some things. Just like I said in an earlier thread, that Ford closed it's Norfolk Assembly Plant because the guys would not take less money. Ford said, fuck you, and moved it's operations elsewhere. they told people they could relocate, and paid people a severance, but they were still out of work. All because they would not budge. Assembly line workers came in at $17.89 and hour. Ford wanted them to take a paycut because times got tight. Now everybody loses. I have 8 employees (7 that actually work, lol) and I believe that I pay them fair. Three are on salary, and the rest are hourly. I try to pay them what they are worth, and give them bonuses based on performance, because I can't always afford to give them raises, because I'd have to take them away in tight times. I keep enough to pay these guys for 6 weeks, even if I had no work. I will pay them for the Thanksgiving week, and also Christmas vacation. they get one week paid sick time and one week paid vacation. But, if they were part of some union, I would be broke trying to acquiesce to their demands. I am the one who has to make sure that these guys have work on the books for weeks at a time. I am the one who pays out, literally, hundreds of thousand of dollars in materials and equipment yearly. they get to go home at night and only worry about their problems. I go home and have to worry about everybodies problems. Like I said, that's why I don't do work in union states. I have to go tit for tat with equipment operators, one from the union and one from me. I would have to pay fringe that only portions go to the employee. Try to do a project up north and not hire union guys, then try and get concrete. If you aren't on a Federal project, good luck.
You are a responsible business owner. Good job 8)
Mostly the bigger companies that go corrupt tho...more pressure and dont have to be friends or see the faces of employees.
I totally agree about unions holding a comp hostage...not right and they pay a hefty price for it.
I dont agree that a company should just load up the truck and move to india tho.....should be a hefty penalty in the national interest.
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The role of the unions still has a place but the level of corruption and entitlement spoils the whole show.
One of my suppliers had a plant in Missouri and they happened to be over capacity with orders (while the rest of us were begging for them just to keep running) and the union workers decided to go on strike because of too much overtime. The plant/company lost orders and customers due to them stopping the product flow. The company shortly afterwards had to decide which plants to close permanently due to financial constraints and all of the other facilities were underperformers...except for the same plant in Missouri.
Small town, few jobs and these mf'ers decided they were too gd entitled to support the company in one of the few busy periods in an otherwise lackluster business season. It was indeed going to be temporary; the orders were finite and tied to distinct industries' peak periods.
Serves them right; now they're crying wishing they had that ol' plant job back with all that OT.
Don't even get me started about the NY/NJ area; the unions' corruption there makes me fucking nauseous.
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In an unregulated economy the right of workers to organize and collectively bargain would the the force which worked against employer interests in order to get the compensation and working conditions to the market equilibrium.
but i think when you have regulations thrown in the mix it makes things more complicated.
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My early experiences with a union was not good. My stepfather was a painting contractor and he was not union. In his business model he had no need for employees because he could make good money just by keeping himself in work.
When I was just a kid, which was a long time ago, my stepfather was harassed by "union thugs" who would come onto his job site and tell him he couldn't use the paint brush he used because it was too large. They literally tried to strong arm him into joining the union. He never did.
Later, when I worked in merchandizing for a major department store, I saw first hand how underpaid employees were in non-union stores as opposed to those in the retail clerks union. I came to realize that some unions actually play an important role on behalf of workers.
Eventually, I left that line of work and went to work in education where I joined a union or rather an association. Although I took a salary reduction when I took that job, I gained in benefits which evened things out some. After a couple of years, I became active in the association by becoming a rep for my fellow employees where I worked.
Unfortunately, some of these employees got into difficulties with our employer. At times they were falsely accused and other times not. I was there to insure that the conditions of "just cause" were met if they were terminated. Often, I was able to negotiate a second chance agreement with our employer if the infraction was not too egregious. I also bargained several contracts over the years with our employer. Without the assistance of the associations paid staff and expertise, these negotiations would have turned out very differently.
My point is that there are good unions and some which have experienced bad practices in the past. To suggest that all unions are just out to grab money for members pay and do nothing in for them in return is simply not true. I believe most unions do more good then harm.
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Before unions, employers would say we need someone to work 8 hrs a day....as time went on 10hrs a day....then 12hr. If you couldnt do it then there are 10 guys that would.
Then the employer say Hey we need you to take a paycut to increase our profits...if you dont...then someone else will. This went on and on and on. Pretty soon we had children working coal mines 14hrs a day for minimum wages.
If a guy stood up alone he lost his job, so he said lets all stand up together.
The problem still exists. I will do the job for 25 an hour. My neighbor will take my job for 12 an hour. The guy down the street will take 6 an hour. Another guy will work for a loaf of bread to feed his family for the day. Its a race to the bottom!
Do you see how great it is to own a business? Unregulated by conscience or ethics.
Now lets consider the union worker who is resented by people because he has a middleclass income. 50-80k a year. This guy spends ALL HE MAKES AND IT POURS INTO THE LOCAL ECONOMY. This helps all business around him.
What about the CEO? He takes his millions a year and hides into tax sheltered accounts and hideaways....This takes the money out of circulation and hurts the economy.
See I dont mind if workers are paid well....because we get it back. And also most companies around the union try to stay competitive in that area. Without unions at all.......NO STANDARDS WOULD BE EXPECTED IN A LIVING WAGE JOB.
Now is there corruptness in the union? Yes. But the corporate corruptness has a greater effect on the economy.
This is a great post. I've posted this before and I'll post it again. Unions make sure employees have a safe working environment and fair pay. All other jobs follow the union baseline in pay, if the union baseline pay goes down so does the wage for all other jobs. Breaking the union would also be the beginning of socialism in this country, there would be a few rich people and a ton of broke people. The economy would be way worse than it is now. I can understand if you own a company not wanting a union it would mean you have to actually share some of your profits and not take advantage of people, but if you pull a pay check you'd be an absolute fool to not want to be in a union...
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I also loathe the teachers' unions although my wife is a member. This is one of those cliched, double-edged blades for me. She has benefited personally from the protection that it provides (had an unsafe situation that the district would not have addressed if not for the union) but at the same time they make it damn near impossible to fire a truly shitty teacher that provides a disservice to our children. They'll move the losers (they call them 'trader trash' and interchange the losers between schools) back and forth but almost never fire them. In the real world these mf'ers would be out on their lazy, incompetent asses.
As I said in an earlier post, I think the unions still have a purpose but the entitlement and corruption spoils it.
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Unions were great when a scab would never dare cross the picket line or he would get busted up. Now there is no fear. I remember the grocery store workers were on strike and I refused to shop at those locations. Didn't stop a lot of people from going there though. The thing that really sucked was the non union places jacked up there prices. Unions are great for job preservation if a guy is being harassed by the management. Then again my dad was in a union for years, paying the dues, was on strike for a year, guys couldn't hold out and left the picket line. Union couldn't do shit for them.
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I'd say cut about HALF of the union power, influence and $ for ten years.
Then re-evaluate. Cut it in half again if needed. They serve a purpose, but they get greedy too!
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I also loathe the teachers' unions although my wife is a member. This is one of those cliched, double-edged blades for me. She has benefited personally from the protection that it provides (had an unsafe situation that the district would not have addressed if not for the union) but at the same time they make it damn near impossible to fire a truly shitty teacher that provides a disservice to our children. They'll move the losers (they call them 'trader trash' and interchange the losers between schools) back and forth but almost never fire them. In the real world these mf'ers would be out on their lazy, incompetent asses.
As I said in an earlier post, I think the unions still have a purpose but the entitlement and corruption spoils it.
Sometimes it is not the union that saves the jobs of bad employees, it is lazy and ineffectual supervisors. I have seen this first hand when I was a union rep. Often notoriously longtime poor performing employees would have a file full of good performance appraisals by their supervisor(s) who were just too lazy or too weak to give them an honest review of their work. There is a process that should be followed when an employee's performance is poor that is designed to help them improve. When this process isn't employed and there is no documentation that the employee was not performing up to the job requirements, it becomes really difficult to terminate them unless they do something really outlandish or illegal. That is part of the process of "just cause."
With out just cause, an employer can fire an employee if they don't like the way they wear their hair or what union folk like to term "just cuz" I don't like you.
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Both.
The only worse thing than unions is not having them.
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Both.
The only worse thing than unions is not having them.
I'm going to steal this line from you, it's great,,haha
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Good posts in this thread. 8) Its true that it can be frustrating sometimes but I try to imagine what would happen if unions actually died off.
Then the situation that is the first post would arise....neighbor against neighbor for a loaf of bread. Tbombz is incorrect in assumeing natural checks and balances......history has already proved that.
The golden rule. (He that has the gold rules) The boss would find someone to do it for free. And we would be a 3rd world country quickly.
Race to the bottom without some standards or regulations.
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Good posts in this thread. 8) Its true that it can be frustrating sometimes but I try to imagine what would happen if unions actually died off.
Then the situation that is the first post would arise....neighbor against neighbor for a loaf of bread. Tbombz is incorrect in assumeing natural checks and balances......history has already proved that.
The golden rule. (He that has the gold rules) The boss would find someone to do it for free. And we would be a 3rd world country quickly.
Race to the bottom without some standards or regulations.
unions arent needed for standards and regulations.
youre theory on "race to the bottom" doesnt hold water.
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unions arent needed for standards and regulations.
youre theory on "race to the bottom" doesnt hold water.
Your wrong, your agreeing with tbomz that should be a clue...
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unions arent needed for standards and regulations.
youre theory on "race to the bottom" doesnt hold water.
You cant learn from history Tony ??? It would be the wild west. As a business owner...I know.
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Your wrong, your agreeing with tbomz that should be a clue...
You cant learn from history Tony ??? It would be the wild west. As a business owner...I know.
so both of you are saying that legislation from the govt wouldnt do the same thing?
why are their businesses/industries that dont employee unions that arent having their employees work for a loaf of bread?
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so both of you are saying that legislation from the govt wouldnt do the same thing?
why are their businesses/industries that dont employee unions that arent having their employees work for a loaf of bread?
Like Affirmative Action?
What happens when companies get too big, and influence legislation via campaign funding?
A world without Unions is far worse. Unions have gotten too powerful and have abused things in many ways. But don't think for one second Companies won't do any and everything to make as much as possible.
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What happens when companies get too big, and influence legislation via campaign funding?
A world without Unions is far worse. Unions have gotten too powerful and have abused things in many ways. But don't think for one second Companies won't do any and everything to make as much as possible.
can be played both ways there Oz, what happens when unions do it...OH WAIT we just have to look at current politicians and legislation...
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unions are a tough one for me... in the first 6 months after university i worked in the film industry as a grip... i was glad to become a union member...
today though as a contact center director within a very reputable company i work to prevent my employees from thinking about joining a union... they kill productivity in a call center
Good point.
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Like Affirmative Action?
What happens when companies get too big, and influence legislation via campaign funding?
A world without Unions is far worse. Unions have gotten too powerful and have abused things in many ways. But don't think for one second Companies won't do any and everything to make as much as possible.
can be played both ways there Oz, what happens when unions do it...OH WAIT we just have to look at current politicians and legislation...
It would be hard to enact legislation to cover each situation.
Also, that means more government regulation, something we can do with out.
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can be played both ways there Oz, what happens when unions do it...OH WAIT we just have to look at current politicians and legislation...
But this country will never try to "Bust" legislators. They can be voted out tho.
But unions are having war waged on them by the right wing ....trying to paint them as the devil.
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It would be hard to enact legislation to cover each situation.
Also, that means more government regulation, something we can do with out.
LOL unions are govt regulations, its the same thing just one is a blanket legislation and one isnt.
and you cant go back and revise posts and then expect me to know...;)
yea like affirmative action, we already have legislation in place that prevents ppl from being discriminated against.
please tell me how telling ppl that focusing on race/sex/religion is wrong by forcing them to focus on race/sex/religion etc is the answer?
so racism is wrong and to counter it we are going to be racists? how the fuck that does that make sense?
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There not perfect but we'd sink FAST if they were gone. The boss would screw you in a heartbeat to improve profits Tony.....gauranteed
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LOL unions are govt regulations, its the same thing just one is a blanket legislation and one isnt.
and you cant go back and revise posts and then expect me to know...;)
yea like affirmative action, we already have legislation in place that prevents ppl from being discriminated against.
please tell me how telling ppl that focusing on race/sex/religion is wrong by forcing them to focus on race/sex/religion etc is the answer?
so racism is wrong and to counter it we are going to be racists? how the fuck that does that make sense?
I notice you like to combine subjects....stick to the theme here tony. You were saying we could legislate new laws instead of having unions.........good lord your asking for bigger government mr republican.
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LOL unions are govt regulations, its the same thing just one is a blanket legislation and one isnt.
and you cant go back and revise posts and then expect me to know...;)
yea like affirmative action, we already have legislation in place that prevents ppl from being discriminated against.
I disagree. AA is a good example of blanket regulation that doesn't work in all circumstances.
Unions (when not abused) provide a relative exact balance.
please tell me how telling ppl that focusing on race/sex/religion is wrong by forcing them to focus on race/sex/religion etc is the answer?
so racism is wrong and to counter it we are going to be racists? how the fuck that does that make sense?
really don't know what you are assuming i meant here. but it wasn't that.
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Even with all it's warts I would have to say Walmart is somewhat better for the economy than worse and I would say the unions are a little better for the country than worse.
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I notice you like to combine subjects....stick to the theme here tony. You were saying we could legislate new laws instead of having unions.........good lord your asking for bigger government mr republican.
lol go back and re-read brain child I didnt combine topics i was responding to a post that did.
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so both of you are saying that legislation from the govt wouldnt do the same thing?
why are their businesses/industries that dont employee unions that arent having their employees work for a loaf of bread?
In an atmosphere where a good percentage of the populace is championing less government involvement, I don't think the timing is ideal for legislation with additional employer dictates. However, you are right that legislation could make unions unnecessary, although this hasn't proved to be the case in other more socialized countries, such as Germany, where unions remain strong despite very generous government regulated employee benefits. A month's vacation every year from the onset is the norm in Germany. Furthermore, German employers must provide employees health care insurance.
Still, there is current U.S. legislation at both the federal and state level which dictate certain mandates to employers, such as minimum wage, the legal age for employment, the number of regular hours of work and some overtime mandates for hourly employees. There is also mandated leaves, such as is dictated in the Family Medical Leave Act. Additionally, there are laws governing other workplace conditions, such as discrimination. Anyone who has experience with the Bureau of Labor and Industries, has a pretty good idea of how difficult enforcement of these laws can be and how frequently they are violated by some employers, such as Walmart.
Walmart has a history of intimidating employees so they won't complain about working conditions. Lately however, Walmart employees seem to have had enough.
Historically, unions helped set some of the standards employers are mandated to follow today. With less government, who enforce violations of these laws? Who would represent an employee who is dismissed without Just Cause, (which is not currently law).
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Tony and coach must ride the short bus together. Its like talking to wallpaper. :-\
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Even with all it's warts I would have to say Walmart is somewhat better for the economy than worse and I would say the unions are a little better for the country than worse.
Slave labor might be good for the economy too, but I wouldn't recommend it.
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Tony and coach must ride the short bus together. Its like talking to wallpaper. :-\
I am not sure this is a fair assessment of either Tony or Coach.
We form opinions based on our own personal experiences, which are often just as varied as our opinions can be. It is all a matter of perspective. I think I pointed that out when I wrote about the variety of work experiences I've had and how they influenced my feelings about unions.
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Tony and coach must ride the short bus together. Its like talking to wallpaper. :-\
Coach maybe (because i am not all that convinced he isn't just playing the tool role), but not Tony
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Coach maybe (because i am not all that convinced he isn't just playing the tool role), but not Tony
Most people seem to have comprehension skills. Tony couldnt find a rhino in a china shop.
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In an atmosphere where a good percentage of the populace is championing less government involvement, I don't think the timing is ideal for legislation with additional employer dictates. However, you are right that legislation could make unions unnecessary, although this hasn't proved to be the case in other more socialized countries, such as Germany, where unions remain strong despite very generous government regulated employee benefits. A month's vacation every year from the onset is the norm in Germany. Furthermore, German employers must provide employees health care insurance.
Still, there is current U.S. legislation at both the federal and state level which dictate certain mandates to employers, such as minimum wage, the legal age for employment, the number of regular hours of work and some overtime mandates for hourly employees. There is also mandated leaves, such as is dictated in the Family Medical Leave Act. Additionally, there are laws governing other workplace conditions, such as discrimination. Anyone who has experience with the Bureau of Labor and Industries, has a pretty good idea of how difficult enforcement of these laws can be and how frequently they are violated by some employers, such as Walmart.
Walmart has a history of intimidating employees so they won't complain about working conditions. Lately however, Walmart employees seem to have had enough.
Historically, unions helped set some of the standards employers are mandated to follow today. With less government, who enforce violations of these laws? Who would represent an employee who is dismissed without Just Cause, (which is not currently law).
I for one would very much like the German model.
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I know a former construction company CEO(the recession destroyed him and he drives a 10 year old Buick and lives in a 2 bedroom apartment...he's 80 and is happy enough) who told me an interesting story one day. His company usually built gas stations, office buildings, and some other commercial buildings. He stated that from his observations that the non-union labor, concentrated mostly in the Heartland(Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa, etc..), in comparison to the unionized labor in New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania, was far, far superior in overall worksmanship as well as being a lot cheaper.
I guess you can compare that the non-unionized labor in the US that cranks out Toyotas, BMWs, and Hondas have far better quality than the dogshit that Ford, GM, and Chrysler puts out with their stupidly grossly overinflated Union pay and benefits packages.
Unions...a resounding Con.
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I know a former construction company CEO(the recession destroyed him and he drives a 10 year old Buick and lives in a 2 bedroom apartment...he's 80 and is happy enough) who told me an interesting story one day. His company usually built gas stations, office buildings, and some other commercial buildings. He stated that from his observations that the non-union labor, concentrated mostly in the Heartland(Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa, etc..), in comparison to the unionized labor in New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania, was far, far superior in overall worksmanship as well as being a lot cheaper.
I guess you can compare that the non-unionized labor in the US that cranks out Toyotas, BMWs, and Hondas have far better quality than the dogshit that Ford, GM, and Chrysler puts out with their stupidly grossly overinflated Union pay and benefits packages.
Unions...a resounding Con.
I think your theory might be suffering from "incorrect association"
If i understand your conclusions right:
1. Products with non unionized labor such as Toyotas, BMW's and Hondas are better
2. Product made with unionized labor such as GM, Dodge, Ford etc are not as good
Therefore unionized products are of poorer quality.
However, there are many other things that factor into the overall quality of a product for example in cars:
- The quality of parts and materials used to keep the costs at a specific level to produce the product and price competitively in a particular market
- The overall retail cost compared to the profit margin considering the cost of materials and workmanship
- The decision made by the company execs to produce a much inferior product (workmanship and materials) knowing that there will always be a market for cheaper American cars compared to more expensive imports
- The decision by execs to use cheaper poor quality parts to increase profit
Many times whats happens is, execs tell engineers to make a product that cost "x" to manufacture and that anything over that is unexceptionable.
To simply say union workers produce inferior products is a false because too many other things factor into how a product is produce.
I agree UAW does not benefit the industry as it should. But Unions in principle are necessary, without them workers fall prey to an employment monopoly.
Also, there are many companies that don't have Unions that work just fine as they treat their workers well for fear of unionization.
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Good posts in this thread. 8) Its true that it can be frustrating sometimes but I try to imagine what would happen if unions actually died off.
Then the situation that is the first post would arise....neighbor against neighbor for a loaf of bread. Tbombz is incorrect in assumeing natural checks and balances......history has already proved that.
The golden rule. (He that has the gold rules) The boss would find someone to do it for free. And we would be a 3rd world country quickly.
Race to the bottom without some standards or regulations.
I am incorrect about what? i said that the right of workers to collectively bargain is the force which works to offset employer interests to get compensation and working conditions to market equilibrium. thats a fact, it isnt up for debate.
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the way to reduce poverty and improve standard of living is to be productive and donate to charity and encourage the individuals you come in contact with to be productive and give to charity themselves.
you cant make a man worth a wage simply by legislating that no one may higher him for less than it.
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unions are fine
the laws forcing corps to agree ot union terms are not
buildup of capital, not unions, led to higher pay since the worker is made more productive
fedex was union free before obama and was kicking ibgger UPS ass, lower price better service, but then obama forced fedex to unionize and now who knows
remember under clinton a new unregulated free market called the internet was born, mainly from freedom of reagan era for research, and that prosperity was union free
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PRO AS ALL FUCK!!!!
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I know a former construction company CEO(the recession destroyed him and he drives a 10 year old Buick and lives in a 2 bedroom apartment...he's 80 and is happy enough) who told me an interesting story one day. His company usually built gas stations, office buildings, and some other commercial buildings. He stated that from his observations that the non-union labor, concentrated mostly in the Heartland(Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa, etc..), in comparison to the unionized labor in New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania, was far, far superior in overall worksmanship as well as being a lot cheaper.
I guess you can compare that the non-unionized labor in the US that cranks out Toyotas, BMWs, and Hondas have far better quality than the dogshit that Ford, GM, and Chrysler puts out with their stupidly grossly overinflated Union pay and benefits packages.
Unions...a resounding Con.
I find that extremely hard to believe.
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In 2010 BMW factory workers in Greer S.C. were making $15 an hour — about half of what the typical German autoworker makes.
At GM and Chrysler, new hires make $14 an hour, or half the amount that existing workers take home. Likewise, at the BMW plant, which is not unionized, new workers earn a little more than half of what those hired earlier make. Some still seemed stunned by their change of circumstances. But they are almost uniformly grateful for the opportunity.
BMW declined to say what their factory workers in Germany make, explaining in part that comparisons are difficult to make because of benefits packages and differing job categories. The International Labour Organization has pegged hourly manufacturing wages in Germany at nearly 24 euros, or more than $33.
Moreover, in a comparison of international labor costs, the German Association of the Automotive Industry reports that the cost of an auto company employee including benefits is 46 euros hourly in Germany and 26 euros per hour in the United States.
Read more: The Herald-Sun - BMW finding skilled workers for less at S C plant: http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_story/10116468/article-BMW-finding-skilled-workers-for-less-at-S-C--plant
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just end any regulations and laws making individuals or corps obey unions or not build better mousetrap
atomic pwoer and electric trains with 0 unions for example be solution to ending all wars in middle east for oil
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just end any regulations and laws making individuals or corps obey unions or not build better mousetrap
atomic pwoer and electric trains with 0 unions for example be solution to ending all wars in middle east for oil
Good luck with that as the EPA preys on peoples ignorant fear
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There not perfect but we'd sink FAST if they were gone. The boss would screw you in a heartbeat to improve profits Tony.....gauranteed
not true
boss pays you for better productivity and is glad to have someone shows up on time and works hard
government laws forcing him to not fire slackers hurt everyone with more expensive goods and crappy work environment
not to mention lawyers have feast, the blood suckers
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not true
boss pays you for better productivity and is glad to have someone shows up on time and works hard
government laws forcing him to not fire slackers hurt everyone with more expensive goods and crappy work environment
not to mention lawyers have feast, the blood suckers
yeah, and there were never abuses, ever.
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not true
boss pays you for better productivity and is glad to have someone shows up on time and works hard.
government laws forcing him to not fire slackers hurt everyone with more expensive goods and crappy work environment
not to mention lawyers have feast, the blood suckers
Haha maybe on fantasy island. If your really productive he'll let you keep the job until someone better walk in...like his brother-in-law. Why all the blindness???
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Haha maybe on fantasy island. If your really productive he'll let you keep the job until someone better walk in...like his brother-in-law. Why all the blindness???
you can boycot if you like. you can organize your friends and get them all to boycot.
but you dont have the right to infringe on anyone elses freedom in the process.
if i want to offer 2 dollars per hour for a job, thats my right to offer it. nobody has to accept my offer. and if somebody does want to accept, then they have the right to do so.
what is so hard about not infringing upon other peoples freedoms ?
do good, by all means do good. boycot those people whose behaviors you think damaging. spread your information. encourage other people to join you.
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you can boycot if you like. you can organize your friends and get them all to boycot.
but you dont have the right to infringe on anyone elses freedom in the process.
if i want to offer 2 dollars per hour for a job, thats my right to offer it. nobody has to accept my offer. and if somebody does want to accept, then they have the right to do so.
what is so hard about not infringing upon other peoples freedoms ?
do good, by all means do good. boycot those people whose behaviors you think damaging. spread your information. encourage other people to join you.
Surprise, surprise, I don't disagree with you.
I am retired from a job in education in Oregon. I just looked at the job postings for the school district where I used to work. What do you think I discovered? There are an incredible number of openings. -Seems kind of strange, considering that Oregon is one of the worst hit states when it comes to unemployment. Could it be with all the salary freezes and furlough days that few people are interested in employment in education even when jobs are scarce?
In Oregon, public employees are under attack. Many agencies have moved to part-time positions which don't qualify for benefits and where the wage scale is so low that it doesn't pay enough to get folk off public assistance. So is it a surprise that they cannot accept these positions? I think not.
We like to make fun of the "wet backs" who are willing to take service jobs, like the folk who maintain many of the yards in my neighborhood and who clean our houses. Truth be told, these hardworking folk probably make more than our public agencies can afford to pay well qualified applicants. I suspect it is just a matter of time before someone who aspired to educate our youth will be mowing my lawn or cleaning my house instead.
Guess I shouldn't complain since I won't need to perform these menial tasks myself. It is kind of like the good ol' days before the civil war, when my ancestors used slaves to make their fortunes. And why not? It is all about survival of the fittest, right?
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Surprise, surprise, I don't disagree with you.
I am retired from a job in education in Oregon. I just looked at the job postings for the school district where I used to work. What do you think I discovered? There are an incredible number of openings. -Seems kind of strange, considering that Oregon is one of the worst hit states when it comes to unemployment. Could it be with all the salary freezes and furlough days that few people are interested in employment in education even when jobs are scarce?
In Oregon, public employees are under attack. Many agencies have moved to part-time positions which don't qualify for benefits and where the wage scale is so low that it doesn't pay enough to get folk off public assistance. So is it a surprise that they cannot accept these positions? I think not.
We like to make fun of the "wet backs" who are willing to take service jobs, like the folk who maintain many of the yards in my neighborhood and who clean our houses. Truth be told, these hardworking folk probably make more than our public agencies can afford to pay well qualified applicants. I suspect it is just a matter of time before someone who aspired to educate our youth will be mowing my lawn or cleaning my house instead.
Guess I shouldn't complain since I won't need to perform these menial tasks myself. It is kind of like the good ol' days before the civil war, when my ancestors used slaves to make their fortunes. And why not? It is all about survival of the fittest, right?
BAM!
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An occuqtion is only worth what people are willing to pay for it