Trained with Dorian Yates yesterday...

[ether]

hey H.I.T. guy, while u're here, perhaps you can explain your "training secrets" through analogous reference? Or maybe you can even recall one of those gems from the man, mentzer himself? 

I don't train H.I.T. Mentzer's theories were to the extreme. I still don't think that using his method of training (which is very very brief but extremely intense) the average guy without AAS can respond the way his body did.

But, the workout that guy posted for legs is more or less how I train, a couple of warm up sets at first then 2 sets to failure and move on. There is no point doing more warm up sets after the bodypart is already warm. Doing a billion warmup sets is a waste of time.

[sculpture]

£100 to train in a shit hole of a gym following a "routine" you could of just copied by watching blood and guts isn't value for money.

Then again if leroy was there shouting shit in your face i might consider parting with the cash

[pumpster]

£100 to train in a shit hole of a gym following a "routine" you could of just copied by watching blood and guts isn't value for money.

Very subjective though; if he learned & also got a great workout, it might be, aside from the fact that it should be worth something to be right there with one of the greats. As far as being a shit hole, some of the best gyms are, it's not a drawback at all; some of my worst workouts have been in "perfect" chrome-laded gyms with too much AC.

[Ex Coelis]

Then again if leroy was there shouting shit in your face i might consider parting with the cash

Come on, Diesel! SQUEEEEEZE it in! One more! COME ON! Let's fly.

that'd be awesome

[Croatch]

Hate to say it, but take away the monster gear usage and these "ultimate routines" by heavy juicers, would get them nowhere.  A routine is such a small part of training, funny as it sounds.  Diet is number one obviously, and it's how hard you push in any routine that will give you maximum results, not a special formulated routine.  This always gives me a good laugh.

[Croatch]

I lost some IQ points by reading this. You now owe me some Croatch.

Please enlighten me.  Whether you know it or not, your routine isn't a big part of your training.  The exact order, etc of which you do things, doesn't matter for the most part.  Changing your routine, keeping it the same, doesn't make much difference.  I know, cause I've done both through years of training.  I notice my greatest gains when I dialed in my diet and pushed harder on the routine I was following at the time.  It's not the "magic routine" that gave me great gains, but diet and the effort put forth.
I'm sorry, but you don't know of what you speak.  From now on, try this...have something to contribute, rather than just saying...no you're wrong.

[affy]

if i had the money id probably train with milos...he seems like a sane bodybuilder who uses good form and knows exactly what hes doing. 

but fuk 300/hour...id consider a couple training sessions for 80/hour max...o well hes in the position to charge that much, so why not

[tommywishbone]

 

[pumpster]

"Tommywishbone" with more sunshine. 

[myseone]

I had a similiar experience when training with Dorian (aprox 5 years ago). In fact the leg routine was exactly the same.

Was it intense definitely, it might not look like much but doing it is another story (and I have had extremely intense workouts). Dorian emphasized a prity slow rep pace, 2-3 second peak contractions, slow negatives taken to failure, and beyond with forced reps.

I think that anyone doing this for the first time, despite workout experience is going to feel it to the extreme degree. Like most productive workouts the body adapts eventually.

Does Dorian know his stuff? He defintely applies logic to his training, and can give a logical arguement for what he does. And his approach has worked well for many.

On Mentzer; If you read his older books or articles about what he did when he was competing his program was much like what Yates did. Mentzer applied pre-exhaust more frequently.

Later on Mentzer changed what he suggested, drastically reducing his programs.

If you've never really done High Intensity Training properly, then nothing that anyone can tell you will prepare you for it, when done correctly it is brutal, most people don't have the balls or sense to consistantly apply it.

A couple of weeks ago I arranged to train with Dorian at Temple Gym in Birmingham. He offers personal training sessions when he’s available. It wasn’t cheap, but I can assure you, it was worth every penny!

I’ve been training hard for over 3 years now, I’m a personal trainer and WAS fairly confident that I always worked at maximum effort and that I knew my stuff. Well I was wrong.

The workout was insane! I can honestly say, I’ve never felt as exhausted as I did when I left Temple yesterday. During the workout there were points where I felt truly f*cked… I could have puked on numerous occasions.

Today my legs are usable… but only just. I’m already considering cancelling my clients tomorrow, as I think the aches will be ridiculous. I learnt far more than I expected too. Dorian is a very knowledgeable guy and he gave me a number of interesting tips. I’m now hoping I can use his advice and levels of training intensity to add some extra size quick.

We did legs (I let him decide, as my whole body was rested), here’s how it went…

Bike – 5mins
Dynamic Stretches – core, legs
Leg Ext –  (focus on full contraction, pause and slow negatives)
-       1x 15 – moderate weight, not to failure
-   1x 10-15 – increase weight, to failure with small amount of help
-   1x 8-12 – Increase weight, to failure with spotting and focus on slow negatives
Leg Press – (focus on slow controlled movements, keep hips fixed)
-   1x 10-15 – moderate weight, almost to failure
-   1x 10-12 – added weight, to failure with limited spotting
-   1x 8-10 – added weight, to failure with forced reps (I was screaming by this point – quads felt set to pop)
Squats – (Not too deep, no lower than parallel, slow negative, power up)
-   1x 10-12 – moderate weight almost to failure
-   1x 8-10 – doubled start weight, to complete failure (was advised to wear a belt for this set… which I don’t usually. Quads seemed to work harder)
Rest 5mins (between sets, 1-2 mins as standard)
Prone Leg Curl (full range, hold and release slowly)
-   1x 10-15 - moderate weight almost to failure
-   1x 8-10 – much heavier weight, added spotting, forced reps and negatives!
Stiff legged Deads – (keep back arched, head up, slow and contolled)
-   1x 10-15 – Moderate weight, focus on hamstring tension
-   1x 8-10 – Doubled weight, focus on control, no spotting
Stretch

I’ve done similar workouts many times before. But the tutor, environment and increased intensity really made a difference! If you do this workout and don’t feel crippled, something is missing.

Oh, by the way, Dorian is still looking real thick and well over 200lb, still can’t train due to shoulder op. and thinks bog Ron will win the O… if he’s not injured.

[pobrecito]

I don't want to train with Yates.

I just want his pre-historic pullover machine

[Croatch]

Eh, why bother? If you haven't figured it out after all your "years of training", then me telling you isn't going to matter. Keep doing your dumbell curls and benchpresses...year after year after year.

Translation: I can't give you a good explanation.

[JOHN MATRIX]

that would be awesome to train with DORIAN YATES at the temple gym.

[bic_staedtler]

..the fact that 'most people don't have the balls' is a cop out.  Most people don't train towards injury to do in 1 year what would otherwise take 2, if you really look at it long term.  I'll take the longer route, and survive.  Notice Yates injury record.  That speaks volumes.

To think that ANYBODY can train that hard consistently is a fantasy.  Those who do this end up like Yates, at best....riddled with muscle tears.  And the mental strain?  Who would choose to train this way?  It's not neccessary, and that's why most people don't.

You have to train the way you feel is best to grow.  I'm not saying HIT is SHIT but it's not very realistic for most trainers, period.  Any fool can do the most amount of weights using all sorts of beyond failure techniques, but there's a price to be paid.  Is that price worth it?  What, with the whole 2 or 3 pro's who used it to produce results?

Not in my book.

[Vince B]

Paying Dorian that much is justified because S is a personal trainer and can claim that on tax. Now you can apply that knowledge when you train your clients. Seems to me you will have to return and train other body parts.

[st@nco]

Paying Dorian that much is justified because S is a personal trainer and can claim that on tax. Now you can apply that knowledge when you train your clients. Seems to me you will have to return and train other body parts.

Exactly! Yeah, it's expensive, but it's also tax deductable (as are all connected costs). However, regardless of that, I'd still the pay £100- It was a great experience. My legs are totally f*cked up today...

[myseone]

..the fact that 'most people don't have the balls' is a cop out.  Most people don't train towards injury to do in 1 year what would otherwise take 2, if you really look at it long term.  I'll take the longer route, and survive.  Notice Yates injury record.  That speaks volumes.

To think that ANYBODY can train that hard consistently is a fantasy.  Those who do this end up like Yates, at best....riddled with muscle tears.  And the mental strain?  Who would choose to train this way?  It's not neccessary, and that's why most people don't.

You have to train the way you feel is best to grow.  I'm not saying HIT is SHIT but it's not very realistic for most trainers, period.  Any fool can do the most amount of weights using all sorts of beyond failure techniques, but there's a price to be paid.  Is that price worth it?  What, with the whole 2 or 3 pro's who used it to produce results?

Not in my book.

Even if there was'nt a risk of injury I would say that many people would'nt train with the HIT format because it is extremely hard to apply constantly. Regarding injury from HIT training this is most likely due to form compromises and using weight that is too heavy at the time. Another factor that many HIT trainees don't apply (including Yates) is to add more rest days as the body gets stronger.

In Yates case I think the injuries were due to not adding the rest days, compromising on form, and maybe steroid use (Steroids allow muscle growth to outpace tendon integrity: I was told this by my orthopedist).

I have been using a high intensity type format, very similiar to Yates style for about 17 years. I have had a few injuries, namely a quad tendon rupture from slipping doing barbell lunges, and a achilles tendon rupture from heavy single leg calf raises. Both injuries have fully recovered,  meaning that I have full capicty now and no pain.

High volume trainees incure a host of injuries as well, how many people have bum shoulders, knees,  wrist, and elbow issues from training high volume, a lot.

Do you have to train extremely high intensity to make the best progress? I would say at some point in your training yes, all the time obviously no. I think that the majority of people on the planet would respond better (bigger muscles and more strength) training in a Yates type fashion than in Arnolds or any high volume method.

Want a result producing technique without high injury risk then apply the techniques in the book "Beyond Brawn"

[sarcasm]

Even if there was'nt a risk of injury I would say that many people would'nt train with the HIT format because it is extremely hard to apply constantly. Regarding injury from HIT training this is most likely due to form compromises and using weight that is too heavy at the time. Another factor that many HIT trainees don't apply (including Yates) is to add more rest days as the body gets stronger.

In Yates case I think the injuries were due to not adding the rest days, compromising on form, and maybe steroid use (Steroids allow muscle growth to outpace tendon integrity: I was told this by my orthopedist).

I have been using a high intensity type format, very similiar to Yates style for about 17 years. I have had a few injuries, namely a quad tendon rupture from slipping doing barbell lunges, and a achilles tendon rupture from heavy single leg calf raises. Both injuries have fully recovered,  meaning that I have full capicty now and no pain.

High volume trainees incure a host of injuries as well, how many people have bum shoulders, knees,  wrist, and elbow issues from training high volume, a lot.

Do you have to train extremely high intensity to make the best progress? I would say at some point in your training yes, all the time obviously no. I think that the majority of people on the planet would respond better (bigger muscles and more strength) training in a Yates type fashion than in Arnolds or any high volume method.

Want a result producing technique without high injury risk then apply the techniques in the book "Beyond Brawn"

are you still shoulder pressing 405 for 10 and squatting 900 for 10 on the Smith, myesone?

[ManBearPig...]

so stanko's been weightlifting for all of 3 years, and is a personal trainer:

brutal abshooter weight belt using vagina.

[Manninen dude]

£1oo for the session that ran for about an hour and 20. In my opinion it was worth it for the experience. I'm considering training each body part once, over the next year with him.

Isnt that actually pretty cheap considering the fact that he was THE best bb in the world..?!

[sean]

I don't train H.I.T. Mentzer's theories were to the extreme. I still don't think that using his method of training (which is very very brief but extremely intense) the average guy without AAS can respond the way his body did.

But, the workout that guy posted for legs is more or less how I train, a couple of warm up sets at first then 2 sets to failure and move on. There is no point doing more warm up sets after the bodypart is already warm. Doing a billion warmup sets is a waste of time.

Mentzer didnt really utilize the HIT method at all for himself. He came up with all that stuff later on. At least thats what I understand. I thought he was pretty much a high volume guy through his pro career.

[Manninen dude]

Only if you also think he's the smartest.

No, he is not the smartest cookie in the world but he can certainly offer valuable practical advice.

[sean]

Even if there was'nt a risk of injury I would say that many people would'nt train with the HIT format because it is extremely hard to apply constantly. Regarding injury from HIT training this is most likely due to form compromises and using weight that is too heavy at the time. Another factor that many HIT trainees don't apply (including Yates) is to add more rest days as the body gets stronger.

In Yates case I think the injuries were due to not adding the rest days, compromising on form, and maybe steroid use (Steroids allow muscle growth to outpace tendon integrity: I was told this by my orthopedist).

I have been using a high intensity type format, very similiar to Yates style for about 17 years. I have had a few injuries, namely a quad tendon rupture from slipping doing barbell lunges, and a achilles tendon rupture from heavy single leg calf raises. Both injuries have fully recovered,  meaning that I have full capicty now and no pain.

High volume trainees incure a host of injuries as well, how many people have bum shoulders, knees,  wrist, and elbow issues from training high volume, a lot.

Do you have to train extremely high intensity to make the best progress? I would say at some point in your training yes, all the time obviously no. I think that the majority of people on the planet would respond better (bigger muscles and more strength) training in a Yates type fashion than in Arnolds or any high volume method.

Want a result producing technique without high injury risk then apply the techniques in the book "Beyond Brawn"

Myseone, Ston@co,
Did he at all discuss the rotation of workouts and use of rest periods. I mean, its absolutly impossible to train the entire body that way, even if its say only at 80%, week in, week out.
I've actually written his website seeking this answer because I havnt come to find the answer on my own. I read somewhere once that he would hit that routine for a six week period then take a whole week off training....?

[crc69]

well then you're over training...?

Are you aware that overtraining is a myth ?

[st@nco]

Myseone, Ston@co,
Did he at all discuss the rotation of workouts and use of rest periods. I mean, its absolutly impossible to train the entire body that way, even if its say only at 80%, week in, week out.
I've actually written his website seeking this answer because I havnt come to find the answer on my own. I read somewhere once that he would hit that routine for a six week period then take a whole week off training....?

we spoke about rest periods and his routine. He placed emphesis on ensuring you rest each body part at least 6 days. He didn't mention anything about weeks off though.