Nolvadex vs AI

[theworm]

On test 500 now.. I know arimidex is much better at preventing gyno

But from a health standpoint doesn't it make more sense to use Nolvadex?  Ie it increases HDL whereas an AI kills it.

So if it works almost as good as an AI, shouldn't I use nolva instead for the better health benefits?

I have gyno now, but i would rather it worsen a bit than to set my self up for a heart attack


My plan was to do nolva daily, but use 1 mg arimidex 24 hours after my test injections ....   Thoughts?

[Jizmo]

no. nolvadex doenst reduce estrogen, it just blocks it at the receptor sites
TOO high estrogen comes with a number of sides HEALTH wise too and nolvadex doesnt reduce that
nolva also has some other sides (lowers IGF and so on)

safest bet would be raloxifene (its a SERM like nolva but offers some other benefits and none of the sides) but i would always run an AI too.
thats how i do it 

[theworm]

no. nolvadex doenst reduce estrogen, it just blocks it at the receptor sites
TOO high estrogen comes with a number of sides HEALTH wise too and nolvadex doesnt reduce that
nolva also has some other sides (lowers IGF and so on)

safest bet would be raloxifene (its a SERM like nolva but offers some other benefits and none of the sides) but i would always run an AI too.
thats how i do it 

What about doing 1mg arimidex twice a week but nolva the other 5 days?  The AI reduces estrogen and nolva blocks it and helps with lipids

[Jizmo]

What about doing 1mg arimidex twice a week but nolva the other 5 days?  The AI reduces estrogen and nolva blocks it and helps with lipids

just use an AI then.. nolva has too many sides to run it all the time
also dont use adex twice a week. eod or ed. split dosage ofc

[theworm]

just use an AI then.. nolva has too many sides to run it all the time
also dont use adex twice a week. eod or ed. split dosage ofc

0.5 EOD?   Already have gyno, so maybe 1mg EOD?

[equipoise]

how about use a low dose of test and then aromasin with it. studies have shown that it doesn't affect HDL that much, if at all. I do think that if your androgens are too high your HDL will go down though. I am currently on 250mg test e a week and I think i'll drop it down to 100mg a week or less so I can go without the AI and have a perfect test to estro ratio

[theworm]

how about use a low dose of test and then aromasin with it. studies have shown that it doesn't affect HDL that much, if at all. I do think that if your androgens are too high your HDL will go down though. I am currently on 250mg test e a week and I think i'll drop it down to 100mg a week or less so I can go without the AI and have a perfect test to estro ratio

But I wanna see an effect, you know.

I'm going to start var 50 daily... Maybe when I do that I can drop the test to 200 a week and not use an AI? 

[Jizmo]

0.5 EOD?   Already have gyno, so maybe 1mg EOD?

hmm... nothing will kill existing gyno really. you can just try to prevent it from growing. 0.25mg adex ed/0.5mg adex eod should definitely suffice for 200mg test a week. for 500mg id use 0.5mg daily personally.

you could try to shrink the gyno with a prolonged letro / raloxifene run, but youd have to drop the test very low and youd have to tough out the sides of zero estrogen for weeks

i would just try to get surgery to be honest

[balzac]

hmm... nothing will kill existing gyno really. you can just try to prevent it from growing. 0.25mg adex ed/0.5mg adex eod should definitely suffice for 200mg test a week. for 500mg id use 0.5mg daily personally.

you could try to shrink the gyno with a prolonged letro / raloxifene run, but youd have to drop the test very low and youd have to tough out the sides of zero estrogen for weeks

i would just try to get surgery to be honest

Novaldex/Tamoxifen can, but Sides are no joke - in the end - better get surgery, if someone has gyno problems low dosing test

[lilhawk1]

What about doing 1mg arimidex twice a week but nolva the other 5 days?  The AI reduces estrogen and nolva blocks it and helps with lipids

Just use arimidex and forget nolvadex.  .5 mg every other day should be plenty for the dose of test you're using.

[Fuzzy Nuts]

But I wanna see an effect, you know.

I'm going to start var 50 daily... Maybe when I do that I can drop the test to 200 a week and not use an AI? 

You start a thread worried about HDL and now you are going to start Var? Don't think 50 mg of legit var will do you're hdl any favors.

[theworm]

You start a thread worried about HDL and now you are going to start Var? Don't think 50 mg of legit var will do you're hdl any favors.

Only for 6 weeks

That's why I was asking about HDL.. I know var will wreck it that's why I was asking about nolva and not doing arimidex which also lowers it

[Fuzzy Nuts]

Only for 6 weeks

That's why I was asking about HDL.. I know var will wreck it that's why I was asking about nolva and not doing arimidex which also lowers it

Gotcha. Unfortunate side effect of var.

[Mad-scientist]

Raloxifene also has some scary side effects if you look into it like blood clots and strokes. I wanted to use raloxifene but after reading all the side effects im pretty paranoid about the stuff. Maybe I am over reacting about what I read though.

[Jizmo]

Raloxifene also has some scary side effects if you look into it like blood clots and strokes. I wanted to use raloxifene but after reading all the side effects im pretty paranoid about the stuff. Maybe I am over reacting about what I read though.

what? nonono.
where do you have this from?

raloxifene is even being studied as a medication AGAINST cardiovascular disease (since its an estrogen agonist/antagonist, tissue specifically)

its quite the complete opposite of what youre saying... if youre at risk, raloxifene even DECREASES chances of cardiovascular incidents

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11314601
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11851576
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18948611

[Mad-scientist]

I was reading side effects on webmd and some other random clinical studies it just scared me because I have high blood pressure. I will read those links you put up though ,I know your a smart guy so Ill definetely double think about the information I had read. Lol I have raloxifene and chickened out on taking after reading about it on web md.

[equipoise]

ralox increases stroke risk in postmenopausal women with high cardiovascular risk factors. I don't think any of those apply to you

[Jizmo]

ralox increases stroke risk in postmenopausal women with high cardiovascular risk factors. I don't think any of those apply to you

yeah, there was one study which concluded that, but numerous others which showed the opposite, or at least that it reduces stroke risk for anyone else

the stroke risk thing comes from the estrogenic properties of raloxifene imo... while high estrogen is beneficial regarding lipids, TOO MUCH estrogen gives high cardiovascular disease risks... i think thats also the reason that "female HRT" is not approved in most countries, since many females supplementing estrogen wound up getting strokes or heart attacks

[Mad-scientist]

My liquid raloxifene was in the cold weather and I think it crashed. It is clear green at the top and white at the bottom and I have to shake it to get it to mix up and become a cloudy green liquid, is it safe to use still or should I not use it?

[Jizmo]

green and white doesnt really sound like raloxifene lol
i also have no idea of SERMs can actually "crash" in solution... but i dont think the compound would go bad from that

[mazrim]

Recently started using nolva instead of ai and think I prefer that as sex drive stays up for me. I also will preface that by saying I rarely run aromatizing compounds or run a very low dose so the nolva helps to take some water out, so if running a higher dose of test, etc. an ai would be preferable.
Was always hard to dial in an ai for me.