Author Topic: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?  (Read 8245 times)

The Coach

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Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« on: January 22, 2009, 08:37:17 AM »
This is NOT good, not even two days in office and he want to put our security at risk. We're f**ked.



WASHINGTON -- President Obama, putting his executive pen in his left hand to overrule eight years of Bush administration policy, signed "several" executive orders Thursday, including ones affecting national security and abortion.

The national security orders mandate that interrogation techniques in the Army Field Manual be used by all intelligence and law enforcement services; call for a task force to look at closing the detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, within the year; and order a strategy be developed for handling detainees in the future. The presidential directive also orders a stay in the case of Ali Al-Marri, the only person being held by the military as an enemy combatant on U.S. soil.

The executive order says everyone in custody should be questioned under the Army Field Manual, which is intended for honorable combatants, meaning POWs in a military conflict. The rule would prevent trained interrogators at the CIA from using lawful interrogation techniques against terrorists who have been trained to withstand Army Field Manual techniques.

According to sources in the law enforcement community, the executive order on interrogation does not declare "enhanced interrogation techniques" to be torture; the order is silent on that.

"This allows for a lot of flexibility, a lot of wiggle room," said one source.

While the administration has insisted on one interrogation standard, one source says they are thinking about assembling a group within the next 60 days to make recommendations on a set of separate techniques for the intelligence community to use.

White House counsel Greg Craig acknowledged late Wednesday that the administration will have to establish a panel to make recommendations to address intelligence community concerns.

Separately, according to a draft of the Guantanamo order, "the prompt disposition" of detainee cases should "precede" the closure of the Guantanamo Bay prison. Whether that means the detainees have to be tried if possible before the closure is still unclear.

The draft also appears to indicate that Obama will leave open a back door in the order ending the military tribunals.

Obama has said he wants to end the military commissions process but does not have anything to replace it. So, sources say, the administration will seek recommendations within the next six or seven months on how to try them.

Administration officials indicated they do not want detainees outside of the U.S. to get habeas corpus rights or rights similar to those enjoyed by U.S. citizens. The Obama administration will likely go to Congress for what it wants to accomplish.

The order will direct that all information regarding the remaining 245 detainees be consolidated in a central repository and will create a panel to review those cases and split the detainees up into three categories.

Category one is comprised of the 70 detainees that President Bush sought to repatriate but couldn't because no country wants them, and they would likely be tortured at home. The Obama administration believes they can get foreign countries to take them.

Category two is the group of detainees that can be prosecuted under war crimes in Article III courts — federal courts designed to address cases that involve citizens of other countries — or tried in modified military commissions. This includes Sept. 11 planner Khalid Sheikh Mohammad. The administration would seek a stay on habeas petitions in Article III courts and continuances on the ongoing military commissions.

Category three is made up of detainees who can't be released and can't be tried. The thought is to create a panel, which could turn into a national security court, to handle these future highest-value detainees to determine prospective policy since terrorists like Al Qaeda chief Usama bin Laden will continue to be caught.

As for Al-Marri, whose case is before the Supreme Court, the intent is to try to make sure the detainee is tried according to the same rules as others who will be subject to the new orders.

Al-Marri was arrested in Peoria, Ill., a couple of months after the Sept. 11 attacks and is accused of being an al Qaeda operative sent to the United States on Sept. 10, 2001, to take part in another attack.

In 2003, President Bush signed an executive order labeling Al-Marri an "enemy combatant" and removing him from civilian custody. The order made the Defense Department responsible for Al-Marri who has been kept in isolation at the Navy brig in Charleston, S.C. His lawyers argue that the president has no "inherent authority" to hold him without charge for an unlimited time.

Separately, the administration issued a reversal of a ban on
federal funding for non-governmental organizations working outside the U.S. that offer abortions or abortion counseling.

Obama signed the executive order on the 36th anniversary of the landmark Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling that legalized abortion in all 50 states.

FOX News' Jim Angle, Major Garrett, Chad Pergram, Lee Ross and Mike Levine contributed to this report.


headhuntersix

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2009, 09:20:13 AM »
Ok, the EO is troubling itslef...but if u look deeper they appear to be trying to find a separate set of rules for the Intell folks....this is a good thing. But again look deeper...once again Barry O is trying to be all things to all people. This appeases the left wing nutbags but basically appears to allow the Intel folks to continue to do what they do. This may work out in our favor on this issue, but again, Barry can't make up his mind.
L

Hereford

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2009, 09:23:22 AM »
Why do people who fight like bitches and dedicate their lifes work to being assassins of the innocent have any rights?

Some of you leftists, answer me this. Why should these cowards have any rights?

tonymctones

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2009, 09:45:23 AM »
Why do people who fight like bitches and dedicate their lifes work to being assassins of the innocent have any rights?

Some of you leftists, answer me this. Why should these cowards have any rights?
b/c apparently to them we have an obligation to stand on a moral high ground.

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2009, 09:48:10 AM »
Obama is a fucking idiot.  This fucking issues is hardly pressing.  We are the verge of complete economic chaos and nationwide shutdown and this assfuck negro is worrying about goddamn abortion, Gitmo prisons, and weatherizing homes.  What a stupid fuck! 

The Luke

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2009, 09:57:19 AM »
Why do people who fight like bitches and dedicate their lifes work to being assassins of the innocent have any rights?

Some of you leftists, answer me this. Why should these cowards have any rights?

...wasn't one of the guys arrested when he was 11 years old?


Imagine that for a second... forget you're a conservative and actually think for a few moments.

US warplanes carpet bomb an Afghan mountain valley, killing an extended family of goat herders who never even heard the name Osama bin Laden. The surviving 11 year old grabs his dead father's AK 47 and attempts to round up some of the shell shocked goats.

American troops pour into the valley... the kids thinks they must be Russians re-invading so he fires his clip of bullets, hitting no one.

The American soldiers, none of whom speak Arabic, capture the kid... beat the shit out of him when he can't answer questions asked in English, then ship him off to Guantanamo.

There he spends seven years being regularly beaten, raped, tortured, waterboarded, and starved. The interrogators use truth drugs on him, deprive him of sleep and sexually molest him (yes, this is happening).

After a couple of years the kid attempts suicide (90% of Gitmo detainees have tried), but survives till 2009.

Now that a new administration learns there is absolutely no evidence; that no charges can pressed against the young man, his torture routine is suspended.


But you guys think THIS small act of Christian mercy is objectionable...?

Morons.



The Luke  

tonymctones

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2009, 10:02:52 AM »
...wasn't one of the guys arrested when he was 11 years old?


Imagine that for a second... forget you're a conservative and actually think for a few moments.

US warplanes carpet bomb an Afghan mountain valley, killing an extended family of goat herders who never even heard the name Osama bin Laden. The surviving 11 year old grabs his dead father's AK 47 and attempts to round up some of the shell shocked goats.

American troops pour into the valley... the kids thinks they must be Russians re-invading so he fires his clip of bullets, hitting no one.

The American soldiers, none of whom speak Arabic, capture the kid... beat the shit out of him when he can't answer questions asked in English, then ship him off to Guantanamo.

There he spends seven years being regularly beaten, raped, tortured, waterboarded, and starved. The interrogators use truth drugs on him, deprive him of sleep and sexually molest him (yes, this is happening).

After a couple of years the kid attempts suicide (90% of Gitmo detainees have tried), but survives till 2009.

Now that a new administration learns there is absolutely no evidence; that no charges can pressed against the young man, his torture routine is suspended.


But you guys think THIS small act of Christian mercy is objectionable...?

Morons.



The Luke  
I suppose you have proof of this? plz provide it

russians are reinvading LOL this boy probably doesnt even know about russia if he is 11 all he knows is that the US is there...who else would be running around in UNIFORMS ya russia ::)

The Luke

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2009, 10:05:15 AM »
I suppose you have proof of this? plz provide it

russians are reinvading LOL this boy probably doesnt even know about russia if he is 11 all he knows is that the US is there...who else would be running around in UNIFORMS ya russia ::)

...the Russians invaded Afghanistan in the 1980s.

Epic knowledge of contemporary history.


The Luke

tonymctones

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2009, 10:09:39 AM »
...the Russians invaded Afghanistan in the 1980s.

Epic knowledge of contemporary history.


The Luke
LOL I KNOW BRAIN CHILD seeing as the child wasnt alive in the 80's and that the US is currently in country who would you assume was running around in uniforms as a military action? HAHAHAH your answer is RUSSIA  ::) LOL WOW  :o hahahaha....again proof?

The Luke

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2009, 10:15:23 AM »
LOL I KNOW BRAIN CHILD seeing as the child wasnt alive in the 80's and that the US is currently in country who would you assume was running around in uniforms as a military action? HAHAHAH your answer is RUSSIA  ::) LOL WOW  :o hahahaha....again proof?

Wouldn't the kids father have fought against the Russians as part of the Mujahadeen?

Wouldn't the kid assume that the troops weren't American..? Considering that American supported both the Mujahadeen and the Taliban...?

How you expect a goat herder in an illiterate country to be up to speed on international affairs is simply baffling.


Please stop owning yourself.


The Luke

tonymctones

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2009, 10:21:13 AM »
Wouldn't the kids father have fought against the Russians as part of the Mujahadeen?

Wouldn't the kid assume that the troops weren't American..? Considering that American supported both the Mujahadeen and the Taliban...?

How you expect a goat herder in an illiterate country to be up to speed on international affairs is simply baffling.


Please stop owning yourself.


The Luke
the idea that he would have no idea that US is in country performing military actions is as ignorant as the idea he would think it was RUSSIANS REINVADING LOL OMG hahahahah. You assume a lot of things i take it since you havent provided proof for anything youve said you are assuming those as well also you assume that his father fought the russians. Owning myself hahahaha you have got to be fuking kidding me LOL your assumption is this kid thought RUSSIA WAS REINVADING lol

Hereford

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2009, 10:31:12 AM »
Epic lameness Luke.

If the kid was shooting at US military personnel, he should have been offed right then and there, who gives a shit WHY he was shooting at them.

Drug dealers shoot at cops every day, are you going to say they are just trying to protect their families and property too? Is that justified too?

Idiot.

And like Tony said, the kid wasn't alive, he wouldn't even know what a Russian looked like.

The Luke

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2009, 10:40:11 AM »
And like Tony said, the kid wasn't alive, he wouldn't even know what a Russian looked like.

Moron.

Again, wouldn't his father and family members be Mujahadeen veterans?


If armed troops started marching into your neighborhood could YOU identify them by uniform?

Most of these mountain folk in Afghanistan haven't heard news of the outside world in twenty years... why shouldn't they shoot at the people carpet bombing them?


You guys are absolute Palins... militantly ignorant.

I'm going to predict right now that THE VAST MAJORITY of Gitmo detainees are released due to their being NO CASE AGAINST THEM.

If memory serves, only bin Laden's personal driver has been convicted so far. Epic efficiency. Some poor schmuck who took a job driving a CIA agent around Afghanistan is the only terror suspect jailed thus far... I hope you all feel safer now.


The Luke

tonymctones

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2009, 10:45:52 AM »
Moron.

Again, wouldn't his father and family members be Mujahadeen veterans?


If armed troops started marching into your neighborhood could YOU identify them by uniform?

Most of these mountain folk in Afghanistan haven't heard news of the outside world in twenty years... why shouldn't they shoot at the people carpet bombing them?


You guys are absolute Palins... militantly ignorant.

I'm going to predict right now that THE VAST MAJORITY of Gitmo detainees are released due to their being NO CASE AGAINST THEM.

If memory serves, only bin Laden's personal driver has been convicted so far. Epic efficiency. Some poor schmuck who took a job driving a CIA agent around Afghanistan is the only terror suspect jailed thus far... I hope you all feel safer now.


The Luke
your right he had no idea being on the ground there controlled by the taliban liberated by the US that anything was gonig on  ::) ya b/c the US military never goes out on patrol or does missions of goodwill or meets with tribal leaders and such  ::) IC IC you are so right its so clear he thought the russians where reinvading omg i cant believe i missed it...LOL

How old was his father?, what was his name? where did he live? you know nothing but assume everything and we are ignorant? LOL wow

again seeing AS YOU HAVENT GIVEN ANY PROOF ALL YOU HAVE IS ASSUMPTIONS.

The Luke

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2009, 10:53:31 AM »
your right he had no idea being on the ground there controlled by the taliban liberated by the US that anything was gonig on  ::) ya b/c the US military never goes out on patrol or does missions of goodwill or meets with tribal leaders and such  ::) IC IC you are so right its so clear he thought the russians where reinvading omg i cant believe i missed it...LOL

How old was his father?, what was his name? where did he live? you know nothing but assume everything and we are ignorant? LOL wow

again seeing AS YOU HAVENT GIVEN ANY PROOF ALL YOU HAVE IS ASSUMPTIONS.

...you guys know that was a hypothetical situation I was talking about right? (Albeit not to far from the truth with regard to some of the Gitmo detainees).

You guys know that practically none of the guys in Gitmo are Al Quaeda right?


I was making the point that one of the guys has been in Gitmo since he was 11... if you don't see anything wrong with that then there is no hope for you.


The Luke

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2009, 10:56:42 AM »
there's was an 11 year boy at Gitmo?

Wow.

Saxon

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2009, 10:56:49 AM »
Yes, an eleven year old boy, on his own in the mountains, having survived a carpet bombing is immediately going to think the Russians are coming  ::)  In all likely hood, he was that shit scared he would have shot at his own shadow.  How do you come up with such crap?

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2009, 10:58:02 AM »
I say add a microscopic tracking device to their food and release them back in their country. 

Then wait for them to seek out their higher up employers and send a missile to that location.

The Luke

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2009, 11:05:41 AM »
I say add a microscopic tracking device to their food and release them back in their country. 

Then wait for them to seek out their higher up employers and send a missile to that location.

...you'll just bomb a bunch of civilians.

I doubt any of the guys at Gitmo are actually Al Quaeda (if Al Quaeda actually exists at all).


Rumsfeld went on American television to tell the story of how he reviewed a satellite/aerial surveillance photograph which showed a very tall man dressed in white with a beard standing among a group of people. He ordered a carpet bombing of the particular Afghan valley, only to be bitterly disappointed when bin Laden released a new video only days later.

"Damn! We didn't get him" he said.

The interviewer commiserated with him.

NO ONE had the sense to point out that bin Laden's new videotape PROVED Rumsfeld had carpet bombed an innocent extended family somewhere in the Afghan foothills.

Isn't that a war crime?


The Luke   

tonymctones

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2009, 11:07:35 AM »
...you guys know that was a hypothetical situation I was talking about right? (Albeit not to far from the truth with regard to some of the Gitmo detainees).

You guys know that practically none of the guys in Gitmo are Al Quaeda right?


I was making the point that one of the guys has been in Gitmo since he was 11... if you don't see anything wrong with that then there is no hope for you.


The Luke
hahaha so youve made up an elaborate situation to gain sympathy for a person and the best you could come up with is the RUSSIANS ARE REINVADING...LOL oh my goodness i havent laughed like this in a while.

What did the 11 yr old do to land in gitmo? seriously this time?

OzmO

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2009, 11:09:17 AM »
Even if he killed some people i think they should have done something different with him.  Like get him into some place here in the USA.

Putting him in gitmo is stupid

The Luke

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2009, 11:15:05 AM »
hahaha so youve made up an elaborate situation to gain sympathy for a person and the best you could come up with is the RUSSIANS ARE REINVADING...LOL oh my goodness i havent laughed like this in a while.

What did the 11 yr old do to land in gitmo? seriously this time?

...no one knows. He's just another "enemy combatant". (Hence the scenario, I assumed reading comprehension would be such that readers would catch the posited hypothetical).

I know that an Iraqi doctor was arrested and tortured for years (sent to Egypt through "extraordinary rendition" protocols to have a confession beaten out of him) because he tried to tell the US soldiers rampaging through his house that he was an English speaking doctor working as a journalist.


The soldiers claimed he had bomb making equipment in his home... turned out to be a locked biscuit tin with some family photos inside. This travesty was caught on video.


Believe it guys... they didn't catch any Al Quaeda. Gitmo is a major fuck-up.


The Luke

tonymctones

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2009, 11:15:39 AM »
Even if he killed some people i think they should have done something different with him.  Like get him into some place here in the USA.

Putting him in gitmo is stupid
why is that ozmo? b/c of his age, that doesnt make his actions any less deadly does it?

OzmO

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2009, 11:17:39 AM »
why is that ozmo? b/c of his age, that doesnt make his actions any less deadly does it?

Yes, because of his age.  Because he's a child.  You don't stick him in some prison filled with terrorist.  All you are doing is teaching him to continue to be one.

It's no different than what we would do if an 11 year in the USA killed someone.  You don't stick that kid in San Quinton. 

tonymctones

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Re: Ok, Now Where Do They Go?
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2009, 11:18:59 AM »
...no one knows. He's just another "enemy combatant". (Hence the scenario, I assumed reading comprehension would be such that readers would catch the posited hypothetical).

I know that an Iraqi doctor was arrested and tortured for years (sent to Egypt through "extraordinary rendition" protocols to have a confession beaten out of him) because he tried to tell the US soldiers rampaging through his house that he was an English speaking doctor working as a journalist.


The soldiers claimed he had bomb making equipment in his home... turned out to be a locked biscuit tin with some family photos inside. This travesty was caught on video.


Believe it guys... they didn't catch any Al Quaeda. Gitmo is a major fuck-up.


The Luke
well then its fair to assume that he helped plan and carry out multiple attacks on us soldiers then i assume as well.

You assume that gitmo is only for al queda operatives but it houses many more than that. where is the video of this or link to it?