Author Topic: Trump = Winning  (Read 761983 times)

Primemuscle

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4925 on: August 28, 2023, 05:08:35 PM »
So you do or you do not believe humans can change biological sex ?

Slow down. Read my complete response above, follow the links for additional details and decide for yourself whether someone can change their sex.

Primemuscle

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4926 on: August 28, 2023, 05:12:43 PM »
So you do or you do not believe humans can change biological sex ?

Do not confuse the issue by adding the word 'biological' to the initial question you asked me.

Dos Equis

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4927 on: August 28, 2023, 05:31:39 PM »
Do not confuse the issue by adding the word 'biological' to the initial question you asked me.

Yeah.  Cannot have biology and science get in the way of this gender ideology cult.

Skeletor

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4928 on: August 28, 2023, 06:16:11 PM »
Yeah.  Cannot have biology and science get in the way of this gender ideology cult.


LurkerNoMore

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4929 on: August 28, 2023, 06:20:35 PM »
Hahaha this Abba lawyer sure isn’t the brightest stone in the tool box.   Claiming His Orangeness doesn’t need time to prepare for a DC trial was a really dumb move and quite the opposite of his usual delay, delay, delay… tactic. 

The part calling “really intelligent” was telling point that this lady might be cut from the same clothe as Rudy, Sidney, and MyPillow.   

We can only hope this comedy gets televised.    :D

illuminati

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4930 on: August 28, 2023, 06:22:16 PM »
Do not confuse the issue by adding the word 'biological' to the initial question you asked me.

How is it confusing the issue for you ??

Again I ask that you explain to me how a Human can change sex?
And we are Biological Creatures there's No getting away from that Fact.

I'm looking forward to an interesting exchange & Possibly learning I was
Wrong about Humans changing sex.

Primemuscle

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4931 on: August 28, 2023, 09:43:18 PM »
How is it confusing the issue for you ??

Again I ask that you explain to me how a Human can change sex?
And we are Biological Creatures there's No getting away from that Fact.

I'm looking forward to an interesting exchange & Possibly learning I was
Wrong about Humans changing sex.

It isn't. But to be honest I don't trust what you say in your posts, and you are who added (biological) to your previous statement. That alone makes it suspect. I answered the original question you asked... twice.

My previous answers stand. Yes (you can change someone's sex), with hormone replacement therapy.

What cannot be changed at this point (as best as I know) is our genetic chronozones. Usually, a person will have either an XX or XY pair of sex chromosomes. Keep in mind though that chromosomes do not define gender.

Had you asked me if we could change our genetic chromosomes my answer would have been 'no', not with current scientific knowledge.

The fact is there are no easy answers because scientific knowledge is ever changing. Look up congenital adrenal hyperplasia - 21-hydroxylase deficiency.

Most of us feel more comfortable thinking in terms of absolutes but nothing in fact is certain.

illuminati

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4932 on: August 28, 2023, 11:05:34 PM »
It isn't. But to be honest I don't trust what you say in your posts, and you are who added (biological) to your previous statement. That alone makes it suspect. I answered the original question you asked... twice.

My previous answers stand. Yes (you can change someone's sex), with hormone replacement therapy.

What cannot be changed at this point (as best as I know) is our genetic chronozones. Usually, a person will have either an XX or XY pair of sex chromosomes. Keep in mind though that chromosomes do not define gender.

Had you asked me if we could change our genetic chromosomes my answer would have been 'no', not with current scientific knowledge.

The fact is there are no easy answers because scientific knowledge is ever changing. Look up congenital adrenal hyperplasia - 21-hydroxylase deficiency.

Most of us feel more comfortable thinking in terms of absolutes but nothing in fact is certain.

How do hormones change one's sex ??

I'm not on about what someone thinks they are as that's a mind / mental issue.
Why do you have such an issue with the word Biology & Biological sex of a human ?

No we cannot change our Chromosomes-

1 thing we agree on.


illuminati

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4933 on: August 29, 2023, 12:39:17 AM »
It isn't. But to be honest I don't trust what you say in your posts, and you are who added (biological) to your previous statement. That alone makes it suspect. I answered the original question you asked... twice.

My previous answers stand. Yes (you can change someone's sex), with hormone replacement therapy.

What cannot be changed at this point (as best as I know) is our genetic chronozones. Usually, a person will have either an XX or XY pair of sex chromosomes. Keep in mind though that chromosomes do not define gender.

Had you asked me if we could change our genetic chromosomes my answer would have been 'no', not with current scientific knowledge.

The fact is there are no easy answers because scientific knowledge is ever changing. Look up congenital adrenal hyperplasia - 21-hydroxylase deficiency.

Most of us feel more comfortable thinking in terms of absolutes but nothing in fact is certain.

I hope you're not going to play at being obtuse & silly semantics word games.

Humans are a biological species they aren't & cannot be separated.
I'll wait for Your Facts & Proof Humans can change sex.

Note - Facts & Proof not thoughts / feeling / identifying etc of I've changed sex.

Primemuscle

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4934 on: August 29, 2023, 12:49:03 AM »
How do hormones change one's sex ??

I'm not on about what someone thinks they are as that's a mind / mental issue.
Why do you have such an issue with the word Biology & Biological sex of a human ?

No we cannot change our Chromosomes-

1 thing we agree on.

I answered how hormones change one's sex in the post where I replied as you asked (Yes). You may have missed it if you neglected to scroll down because I intentionally separated it from the one word response.

Anyway, here is that post so you don't have to look for it. I removed the extra spacing so as not to confuse you.

I highly recommend you read the links I included because they are interesting and I think do a good job of explaining how hormones can change a person and moreover can change their sex.

Nope. I gave exactly what you asked me for. Ingrate!  ;D


Fooled ya.

The World Health Organisation summarises the difference between sex and gender in the following way:
Sex refers to “the different biological and physiological characteristics of males and females, such as reproductive organs, chromosomes, hormones, etc.”


Hormones - When a biological female undergoes testosterone therapy it essentially changes a multitude of physical characteristics from female to male. https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-testosterone-hormone-therapy#:~:text=Your%20body%20will%20begin%20to,skin%20becomes%20a%20bit%20thinner.

Hormones - When a biological male undergoes estrogen therapy it changes a multitude of physical characteristics from male to female. https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-estrogen-hormone-therapy

For additional details about these physical and emotional changes triggered by hormone therapy, follow the links.

Gender is more fluid and may be changed without the aid of hormones.
Gender refers to "the socially constructed characteristics of women and men – such as norms, roles and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed.

I don't have an issue with the word biological. As I pointed out, one cannot change their biological or genetic chronozones. So had you originally asked me if I thought a person could change their biological sex, my answer would have been 'no'.

Also, I do not believe reassignment surgery changes a person's sex. It just adds boobs plus removes and rearranges (inverts) the male sex organs. Or, in the case of a female it removes her boobs and I guess they can add a prosthetic (fake) penis and testis.

I answered the question you asked. I am not a mind reader. If you meant to write biological sex, I could not have known this and I try never to assume things.

Primemuscle

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4935 on: August 29, 2023, 12:55:35 AM »
I hope you're not going to play at being obtuse & silly semantics word games.

Humans are a biological species they aren't & cannot be separated.
I'll wait for Your Facts & Proof Humans can change sex.

Note - Facts & Proof not thoughts / feeling / identifying etc of I've changed sex.

Rather demanding aren't you? Well as you should by now have read I initially provided facts and proof that hormones can change someone's sex, and not thoughts / feeling/ identifying etc...

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4936 on: August 29, 2023, 06:28:41 AM »
So we got dimwitted lawyer (does he hire any other kind?) in DC that claims they are ready for trial because Trumpy needs no "prep" to "tell the truth".  They are ready to go, go, GO!    ::)

Then we have another lawyer for GA that claims March 2024 is too soon and he needs 2.5 years until 2026 to be ready for trial.   ::)   
To represent a guy that claims he has a "report" (hahahaha) that totally EXONERATES his client and other defendants.   :D   So why wait 2.5 years?   Why wait 2.5 weeks?  Put him on the stand now just like Meadows did and let's get that report out in the open so these people can be acquitted and go on about their lives.  What's the hold up?  <---   hahahaha - hint : more grifting time.

illuminati

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4937 on: August 29, 2023, 11:36:12 AM »
Nope. I gave exactly what you asked me for. Ingrate!  ;D


















Fooled ya.

The World Health Organisation summarises the difference between sex and gender in the following way:
Sex refers to “the different biological and physiological characteristics of males and females, such as reproductive organs, chromosomes, hormones, etc.”


Hormones - When a biological female undergoes testosterone therapy it essentially changes a multitude of physical characteristics from female to male. https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-testosterone-hormone-therapy#:~:text=Your%20body%20will%20begin%20to,skin%20becomes%20a%20bit%20thinner.

Hormones - When a biological male undergoes estrogen hormone therapy it changes a multitude of physical characteristics from male to female. https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-estrogen-hormone-therapy

For additional details about these physical and emotional changes triggered by hormone therapy, follow the links.

Gender is more fluid and may be changed without the aid of hormones.
Gender refers to "the socially constructed characteristics of women and men – such as norms, roles and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed.


Prime that is a very weak / poor response & it doesn't Prove that humans
can sex at all - Changing the main hormone from Testosterone to Estrogen
& vice a Versa only has an effect on secondary male / female characteristics.

Zero effect on things like Bone structure / internal organs / making a man
be able to get pregnant & have a baby etc etc,
it merely is just peripheral changes at best.

Some soft wear changes
The Hard wear stays exactly the same.


You are wanting to Play word games using the word Gender
Yes I should of included the word biologically in my original question to you
& that would've stopped the " Gender" word play nonsense.

Ultimately We do have agreement That you admit Human's Cannot Biologically
change Sex.     

Thank you.

I'll Enjoy Being Correct.

 ;D

illuminati

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4938 on: August 29, 2023, 11:52:56 AM »
I answered how hormones change one's sex in the post where I replied as you asked (Yes). You may have missed it if you neglected to scroll down because I intentionally separated it from the one word response.

Anyway, here is that post so you don't have to look for it. I removed the extra spacing so as not to confuse you.

I highly recommend you read the links I included because they are interesting and I think do a good job of explaining how hormones can change a person and moreover can change their sex.

I don't have an issue with the word biological. As I pointed out, one cannot change their biological or genetic chronozones. So had you originally asked me if I thought a person could change their biological sex, my answer would have been 'no'.

Also, I do not believe reassignment surgery changes a person's sex. It just adds boobs plus removes and rearranges (inverts) the male sex organs. Or, in the case of a female it removes her boobs and I guess they can add a prosthetic (fake) penis and testis.

I answered the question you asked. I am not a mind reader. If you meant to write biological sex, I could not have known this and I try never to assume things.


" I don't have an issue with the word biological. As I pointed out, one cannot change their biological or genetic chronozones. So had you originally asked me if I thought a person could change their biological sex, my answer would have been 'NO'.
Is this a World 1st a Liberal admitting some thing with a Simple
Straight Forward one word Answer  :o :o :o

Ahhhh what it is to be Correct  ;D
I'm so very Glad That you're Finally able to Agree with Me
& Admit Human's cannot Change Sex.

Oh on a side Note - what are "chronozones" ?? some thing to do with
Watches / Time.
As I've never heard of them referred to in Biology & Humans.


HTH - I found this, Is This what you were referring to ??

"A chronozone or chron is a unit in chronostratigraphy, defined by events such as geomagnetic reversals (magnetozones), or based on the presence of specific fossils (biozone or biochronozone). According to the International Commission on Stratigraphy, the term "chronozone" refers to the rocks formed during a particular time period, while "chron" refers to that time period."



 ;D

Primemuscle

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4939 on: August 29, 2023, 02:16:17 PM »

Prime that is a very weak / poor response & it doesn't Prove that humans
can sex at all - Changing the main hormone from Testosterone to Estrogen
& vice a Versa only has an effect on secondary male / female characteristics.

Zero effect on things like Bone structure / internal organs / making a man
be able to get pregnant & have a baby etc etc,
it merely is just peripheral changes at best.

Some soft wear changes
The Hard wear stays exactly the same.


You are wanting to Play word games using the word Gender
Yes I should of included the word biologically in my original question to you
& that would've stopped the " Gender" word play nonsense.

Ultimately We do have agreement That you admit Human's Cannot Biologically
change Sex.     

Thank you.

I'll Enjoy Being Correct.

 ;D

You should take your argument up with the World Health Organization. My response was directly quoted from their definitions. Additionally, I provided you links to my source so you could read for yourself what the World Health Organization says about hormones and changing sex. To repeat, I gave you exactly what you asked me to, which was to not tell you what I 'think'. or 'feel' about changing a person's sex.

There was no 'word play' on my part. Like I said, I am not a mind reader. You are correct, had you initially asked the question about the ability for someone to 'biologically' change their sex, I would have responded, no, one cannot now alter their biological sex. This is particularly true when their biological sex is clearly defined at birth as being male or female, which is not always the case.

The human body is complex. There are medical conditions which alter testosterone and estrogen levels in humans, such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia. Congenital adrenal hyperplasia can also cause hermaphroditism.

Moving on, here are my thoughts and feelings on this subject, which are supported by current knowledge and therefore subject to future reconsideration:

Masculinity and femininity are on a broad spectrum, physically, emotionally, and mentally, as well as societally. Gender is a complex interrelationship between one’s biological sex, and internal sense of self as male, female, both or neither. Biological sex refers to an individual's reproductive organs as being male or female which is not always absolute as with people born intersex - with ambiguous genitalia.

Although it is currently impossible to change one's biological sex, that could change in the future. Tubal anastamosis or reanastamosis, is a surgical procedure done to reconnect a woman's fallopian tubes after tubal ligation. Pregnancies have now been reported from several centers after transplanting fresh and frozen ovarian tissue pieces. Uterine transplant surgery is still just a theory, and there is currently no evidence that uterine transplant surgery can make men pregnant. Men who have lost their penis due to illness or injury may be able to have phalloplasty to restore their penis. It is also a procedure available to transgender men.

The above currently available procedures and possible future ones beg the question, do any of these change a person's biological sex? My answer is no, they do not. What they change is how a transgender person perceives themselves and how other people perceive them. I have no issue with adults who choose to alter themselves to conform to their self-perception. No doubt there are many transgender folks who you would never guess were biologically born the opposite gender then they now present themselves as being.


 

illuminati

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4940 on: August 29, 2023, 03:08:00 PM »
You should take your argument up with the World Health Organization. My response was directly quoted from their definitions. Additionally, I provided you links to my source so you could read for yourself what the World Health Organization says about hormones and changing sex. To repeat, I gave you exactly what you asked me to, which was to not tell you what I 'think'. or 'feel' about changing a person's sex.

There was no 'word play' on my part. Like I said, I am not a mind reader. You are correct, had you initially asked the question about the ability for someone to 'biologically' change their sex, I would have responded, no, one cannot now alter their biological sex. This is particularly true when their biological sex is clearly defined at birth as being male or female, which is not always the case.

The human body is complex. There are medical conditions which alter testosterone and estrogen levels in humans, such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia. Congenital adrenal hyperplasia can also cause hermaphroditism.

Moving on, here are my thoughts and feelings on this subject, which are supported by current knowledge and therefore subject to future reconsideration:

Masculinity and femininity are on a broad spectrum, physically, emotionally, and mentally, as well as societally. Gender is a complex interrelationship between one’s biological sex, and internal sense of self as male, female, both or neither. Biological sex refers to an individual's reproductive organs as being male or female which is not always absolute as with people born intersex - with ambiguous genitalia.

Although it is currently impossible to change one's biological sex, that could change in the future. Tubal anastamosis or reanastamosis, is a surgical procedure done to reconnect a woman's fallopian tubes after tubal ligation. Pregnancies have now been reported from several centers after transplanting fresh and frozen ovarian tissue pieces. Uterine transplant surgery is still just a theory, and there is currently no evidence that uterine transplant surgery can make men pregnant. Men who have lost their penis due to illness or injury may be able to have phalloplasty to restore their penis. It is also a procedure available to transgender men.

The above currently available procedures and possible future ones beg the question, do any of these change a person's biological sex? My answer is no, they do not. What they change is how a transgender person perceives themselves and how other people perceive them. I have no issue with adults who choose to alter themselves to conform to their self-perception. No doubt there are many transgender folks who you would never guess were biologically born the opposite gender then they now present themselves as being.


Phew that was a long read .

Simple answer NO /size] Biological Sex cannot be changed End of.

I stated changing hormones is just Peripheral it does Fuck all to change Biological Sex.

Where we vastly differ is with this Bollocks Nonsense of "Gender" Self identification.
And I'm not going to go back & forth over that Stupidity.

You've agreed with Me Biological sex cannot be changed.

End of. 👊🏻

Oh 1 more thing - Kick all Men out of women's sports / toilets/ Changing rooms.

😁

Primemuscle

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4941 on: August 29, 2023, 04:00:25 PM »

Phew that was a long read .

Simple answer NO /size] Biological Sex cannot be changed End of.

I stated changing hormones is just Peripheral it does Fuck all to change Biological Sex.

Where we vastly differ is with this Bollocks Nonsense of "Gender" Self identification.
And I'm not going to go back & forth over that Stupidity.

You've agreed with Me Biological sex cannot be changed.

End of. 👊🏻

Oh 1 more thing - Kick all Men out of women's sports / toilets/ Changing rooms.

😁

Now we agree on at least two things, because I also think we should kick all men out of women's sports/ toilets/ changing rooms. Also kick out all women from men's sports, toilets, and changing rooms. I am not opposed to unisex or co-ed sports/toilets and changing rooms as long as they are clearly identified as such.

Did you know that the only Olympic co-ed sport is equestrian?

A couple of other possible co-ed sports are billiards and bowling.

Do you agree that transgender folks have their own sports category?

I've been to restaurants and nightclubs which only have co-ed restrooms and it didn't seem to be a problem for anyone. One of the gyms, where I work out, has a separate restroom which folks who don't wish (for whatever reason) to change clothes in the regular men's or women's changing rooms. Once when using the facilities at a restaurant in Köln, Germany the attendants were a middle-aged woman and presumably her young son. It took me aback for a moment, but the regulars there didn't seem to mind. Of course, one was expected to tip them when they handed you a towel to dry your hands.

Did you read the links to the change’s hormone therapy has on a person. One of the changes was their bone structure. Who knew? But, when you think about it some women who use/abuse steroids do take on a male facial structure caused by the change in bone structure, loss of fatty tissue with thinner, larger pore, and oily skin. TRT has the same effect on women.

Perhaps the reason you think gender identity is 'bullocks' is because you are comfortable in your maleness. Until you walk a mile in their shoes it is difficult to understand their experiences, challenges, and thought processes. 

illuminati

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4942 on: August 29, 2023, 04:44:36 PM »
Now we agree on at least two things, because I also think we should kick all men out of women's sports/ toilets/ changing rooms. Also kick out all women from men's sports, toilets, and changing rooms. I am not opposed to unisex or co-ed sports/toilets and changing rooms as long as they are clearly identified as such.

Did you know that the only Olympic co-ed sport is equestrian?

A couple of other possible co-ed sports are billiards and bowling.

Do you agree that transgender folks have their own sports category?

I've been to restaurants and nightclubs which only have co-ed restrooms and it didn't seem to be a problem for anyone. One of the gyms, where I work out, has a separate restroom which folks who don't wish (for whatever reason) to change clothes in the regular men's or women's changing rooms. Once when using the facilities at a restaurant in Köln, Germany the attendants were a middle-aged woman and presumably her young son. It took me aback for a moment, but the regulars there didn't seem to mind. Of course, one was expected to tip them when they handed you a towel to dry your hands.

Did you read the links to the change’s hormone therapy has on a person. One of the changes was their bone structure. Who knew? But, when you think about it some women who use/abuse steroids do take on a male facial structure caused by the change in bone structure, loss of fatty tissue with thinner, larger pore, and oily skin. TRT has the same effect on women.

Perhaps the reason you think gender identity is 'bullocks' is because you are comfortable in your maleness. Until you walk a mile in their shoes it is difficult to understand their experiences, challenges, and thought processes.

WTF is Happening!! ??

We have agreement on 3 things  :o

The Drugged up Inbetweenies who don't know if they should stand or sit to piss
Should definitely have their own category.

I'm well aware of the effects of different Hormones.

Well Perhaps then you & them should walk a mile in my shoes to understand my experiences,
Challenges,  and my thought process.

And Yes I'm a Man in a Man's body wether I'm comfortable or not
It is what it & Fuck all can be done to change that.
Fact - simple as that.


 ;D

Dos Equis

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4943 on: August 30, 2023, 05:21:19 PM »
 ;D



illuminati

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4944 on: August 30, 2023, 05:24:58 PM »
Libturds listen to this Man
And defend your Hero Pedo Biden

i=o297Hd0knfoZdqM3

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4945 on: September 01, 2023, 10:52:00 AM »
Can this moron do anything other than whine?  All caps meltdown.  Toddler rage of impotence.  Simply can't understand that you can not defame someone when the TRUTH is used.   :D

---
"I was defamed": Trump melts down on Truth Social after NY AG accuses him of inflating net worth.

onald Trump on Friday claimed he was "DEFAMED" by New York Attorney General Letitia James after her office argued that the former president routinely inflated his net worth to financial firms by as much as $2.2 billion in certain years,

"Based on the undisputed evidence, no trial is required for the court to determine that defendants presented grossly and materially inflated asset values" in their statements of financial condition "and then used those SFCs repeatedly in business transactions to defraud banks and insurers," James said in a filing on Wednesday. James' whopping $250 million lawsuit accuses the Trump family and their real estate company of "grossly" inflating the values of more than a dozen assets between 2011 and 2021, and then subsequently using those funds to defraud banks and insurers on that basis of securing more advantageous loan or insurance terms.

Trump on Truth Social accused James of defamation in an all-caps rant. "IN THE NYS A.G. LETITIA JAMES CASE, I WAS TARGETED, GIVEN NO JURY, NO EXTENSIONS, NO COMMERCIAL DIVISION, NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, NO ANYTHING!" he claimed. "THE DEMOCRAT JUDGE HATES TRUMP WITH A PASSION. THE THING I HAVE IS A GREAT CASE BASED ON PHENOMENAL NUMBERS THAT SHOW A NET WORTH BILLIONS OF DOLLARS MORE THAN SHE VICIOUSLY & FALSELY CLAIMED, VERY LITTLE DEBT, BIG CASH, A POWERFUL DISCLAIMER CLAUSE, PAID OFF LOANS, NO DEFAULTS, 'HAPPY' BANKS, GREAT ASSETS. I WAS DEFAMED BY NYS - ELECTION INTERFERENCE!"
---


Primemuscle

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4946 on: September 01, 2023, 01:59:27 PM »
WTF is Happening!! ??

We have agreement on 3 things  :o

The Drugged up Inbetweenies who don't know if they should stand or sit to piss
Should definitely have their own category.

I'm well aware of the effects of different Hormones.

Well Perhaps then you & them should walk a mile in my shoes to understand my experiences,
Challenges,  and my thought process.

And Yes I'm a Man in a Man's body wether I'm comfortable or not
It is what it & Fuck all can be done to change that.
Fact - simple as that.


 ;D

Your last paragraph is interesting.

loco

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4947 on: September 02, 2023, 03:25:02 AM »

loco

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4948 on: September 02, 2023, 03:28:22 AM »
Trump Is Top Choice for Nearly 60% of GOP Voters, WSJ Poll Shows

Sept. 2, 2023



https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/trump-is-top-choice-for-nearly-60-of-gop-voters-wsj-poll-shows-877252b6

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #4949 on: September 02, 2023, 06:29:15 AM »