Author Topic: The ABBF is suspended by the IFBB : CORRUPTION ? (Read 124605 times)

karu · « **Reply #300 on:** April 20, 2009, 11:48:21 AM »

Ask chick,

he says the IFBB is fair and just and follows their rules consistently.

Quote from: Schmoe Buster on April 20, 2009, 11:45:05 AM

Yes more double standards and enforcing rules when felt like, how anyone within the IFBB can justify this and think it is fair is beyond me

Schmoe Buster · « **Reply #301 on:** April 20, 2009, 11:51:43 AM »

Quote from: karu on April 20, 2009, 11:48:21 AM

Ask chick,

he says the IFBB is fair and just and follows their rules consistently.

Bob has his head up his own ass walking around on all fours wondering who turned off the light, when it comes to this subject

Chick · « **Reply #302 on:** April 20, 2009, 02:07:12 PM »

Quote from: karu on April 20, 2009, 11:47:29 AM

Chick,

For you to even insinuate that the IFBB rules are applied fairly and justly is a joke in itself.

this is a clear case of the IFBB using its rules selectively yet again, to simply silence a critic. what a great ethical organization!!

A man can be put on trial for exposing corruption (and educating people like you) , but won't be backed by his own athlete rep. Sad.

If you haven't noticed a trend here, you've been called out on being shallow with regards to Milos/IFBB, and you've yet to repudiate anything.

I'll ask you the same as everyone else that has the same opinion....what rule do you feel the IFBB selectivly followed in regards to Milos and this Paul Chua situation?

timfogarty · « **Reply #303 on:** April 20, 2009, 03:35:32 PM »

Quote from: Chick on April 20, 2009, 02:07:12 PM

I'll ask you the same as everyone else that has the same opinion....what rule do you feel the IFBB selectivly followed in regards to Milos and this Paul Chua situation?

let me ask it a slightly different way:

the IFBB Pro League is a privately held company incorporated in the USA.

the International IFBB is a separate privately held company incorporated in Spain.

the ABBF is a separate privately held company incorporated in Singapore.

none of these companies are parents of the others, none report to the others.

Milos was working as a private individual for the country of Malaysia.

While representing the country of Malaysia, if he had publicly criticized the CEO of a company such as bb.com, Muscletech, Muscle & Fitness, or Eurpoa, would he have been suspended from the IFBB Pro League?

what is the rule that he broke? why is criticizing the CEO of the ABBF, criticizing his actions as CEO of the ABBF, forbidden in the IFBB Pro League, when there is no real legal connection between the IFBB Pro League and the ABBF?

Van_Bilderass · « **Reply #304 on:** April 20, 2009, 03:38:54 PM »

Corruption in IFBB started when Basile was given the gift of Mr Canada in 1970. Even if he was the only competitor he should still have been 2nd IMHO.

Chick · « **Reply #305 on:** April 20, 2009, 03:46:12 PM »

Quote from: timfogarty on April 20, 2009, 03:35:32 PM

let me ask it a slightly different way:

the IFBB Pro League is a privately held company incorporated in the USA.

the International IFBB is a separate privately held company incorporated in Spain.

the ABBF is a separate privately held company incorporated in Singapore.

none of these companies are parents of the others, none report to the others.

Milos was working as a private individual for the country of Malaysia.

While representing the country of Malaysia, if he had publicly criticized the CEO of a company such as bb.com, Muscletech, Muscle & Fitness, or Eurpoa, would he have been suspended from the IFBB Pro League?

what is the rule that he broke? why is criticizing the CEO of the ABBF, criticizing his actions as CEO of the ABBF, forbidden in the IFBB Pro League, when there is no real legal connection between the IFBB Pro League and the ABBF?

Let's not make it out to be more complicated than it was:

Milos was a member of the IFBB

Paul Chua runs (ran) the ABBF

The ABBF is under the umbrella of the IFBB

Milos made accusations against an IFBB Official, while being a member of the IFBB Pro League

End of story

timfogarty · « **Reply #306 on:** April 20, 2009, 03:59:06 PM »

Quote from: Chick on April 20, 2009, 03:46:12 PM

Let's not make it out to be more complicated than it was:

Milos was a member of the IFBB

was he at the time a card carrying member of the amateur IFBB?

Quote

Paul Chua runs (ran) the ABBF

Pau Chua owns the ABBF, a privately held company incorporated in Singapore

Quote

The ABBF is under the umbrella of the IFBB

Milos made accusations against an IFBB Official, while being a member of the IFBB Pro League

End of story

but there is no legal connection between the international IFBB and the IFBB Pro League, or the ABBF and the IFBB Pro League. There is only a gentlemen's agreement: "We'll recognize your contests and your athletes."

so it is reasonable to ask, with what other corporations does the IFBB Pro League have a gentlemen's agreement?

Flex and Muscle & Fitness use the IFBB logo, but are owned by a separate company. There is some (perhaps legal) agreement between the IFBB Pro League and AMI. If Milos had made accusations against Pecker, would that have been grounds for suspension?

Chick · « **Reply #307 on:** April 20, 2009, 04:04:26 PM »

Quote from: timfogarty on April 20, 2009, 03:59:06 PM

was he at the time a card carrying member of the amateur IFBB?

but there is no legal connection between the international IFBB and the IFBB Pro League, or the ABBF and the IFBB Pro League. There is only a gentlemen's agreement.

so it is reasonable to ask, with what other corporations does the IFBB Pro League have a gentlemen's agreement?

Obviously, Milos is a pro and a part of the Pro League

There doesn't have to be a "legal" connection...the ABBF was a willing party to be under the flag of the IFBB, and abided to follow the rules and regulations set forth that all 180 countries also agree to.

timfogarty · « **Reply #308 on:** April 20, 2009, 04:09:06 PM »

Quote from: Chick on April 20, 2009, 04:04:26 PM

There doesn't have to be a "legal" connection...the ABBF was a willing party to be under the flag of the IFBB, and abided to follow the rules and regulations set forth that all 180 countries also agree to.

but the IFBB Pro League is not under the international IFBB. They are completely separate entities. Manion does not report to Santonja. True, they both use to be owned by Ben Weider, but he sold them off.

let me repeat what I added to a message above:

Flex and Muscle & Fitness use the IFBB logo, but are owned by a separate company. There is some (perhaps legal) agreement between the IFBB Pro League and AMI. If Milos had made accusations against Pecker, would that have been grounds for suspension?

Chick · « **Reply #309 on:** April 20, 2009, 04:13:35 PM »

Quote from: timfogarty on April 20, 2009, 04:09:06 PM

but the IFBB Pro League is not under the international IFBB. They are completely separate entities. Manion does not report to Santonja. True, they both use to be owned by Ben Weider, but he sold them off.

No, he doesn't answer to Raphael....and If Ben were gone before this happened, perhaps there would have been a different diection taken. The bottom line is, an official is an official be it amateur or professional, it's still under the title of IFBB...

Frank D. Law · « **Reply #310 on:** April 20, 2009, 04:15:01 PM »

Quote from: Chick on April 20, 2009, 03:46:12 PM

Let's not make it out to be more complicated than it was:

Milos was a member of the IFBB

Paul Chua runs (ran) the ABBF

The ABBF is under the umbrella of the IFBB

Milos made accusations against an IFBB Official, while being a member of the IFBB Pro League

End of story

Can you even be consistent, Chick? When it suits you, the IFBB Pro League couldn't care less about and have no dealings with the Amateur IFBB (never met Paul Chua who?) and now suddenly, the ABBF is under the umbrella of the IFBB.

Stop embarrassing yourself. Apart from your credibility, something else is plunging....your mental faculties! At the rate you're going, you've demonstrated that you're not even fit to hold the jock-straps of Tim Forgaty, Basile, Schmoe Buster et al!

Chick · « **Reply #311 on:** April 20, 2009, 04:22:17 PM »

Quote from: Frank D. Law on April 20, 2009, 04:15:01 PM

Can you even be consistent, Chick? When it suits you, the IFBB Pro League couldn't care less about and have no dealings with the Amateur IFBB (never met Paul Chua who?) and now suddenly, the ABBF is under the umbrella of the IFBB.

Stop embarrassing yourself. Apart from your credibility, something else is plunging....your mental faculties! At the rate you're going, you've demonstrated that you're not even fit to hold the jock-straps of Tim Forgaty, Basile, Schmoe Buster et al!

So because the ABBF falls under the IFBB, the Pro League has something to do with it? Here is a newsflash, Einstein...there are 180 countries under the IFBB.

And no, *I* have never met Paul Chua, or the overwhelming majority of IFBB amateur officials which are overseas, and a part of the other 180 countries.

Get a clue

timfogarty · « **Reply #312 on:** April 20, 2009, 04:29:40 PM »

Quote from: Chick on April 20, 2009, 04:22:17 PM

So because the ABBF falls under the IFBB, the Pro League has something to do with it? Here is a newsflash, Einstein...there are 180 countries under the IFBB.

you don't even see your inconsistency?

1) the IFBB Pro League has nothing to do with the international IFBB and the ABBF. they are completely separate. the Pro League does not report to anyone in the international IFBB

2) the IFBB Pro League falls under the umbrella of the IFBB and Milos was suspended for criticizing a fellow member of the IFBB

Vince B · « **Reply #313 on:** April 20, 2009, 04:31:26 PM »

Anyone reading this thread will see how the IFBB handles issues and people. If they dislike you then you get the boot because they can argue that you did something wrong or didn't follow protocol. Look at the way Bob behaves in this thread. Typical law enforcer out to punish those deemed guilty by the IFBB. Notice that the IFBB recruits second rate intellects who can be easily controlled by giving them a title and power. Bob's head is so big from his appointed position that he literally looks down at ordinary rank and file IFBB members.

In Sydney, Paul Graham has run the IFBB since 1972. Over the years I have told guys competing from my gym to say they train elsewhere! Guys learn to cooperate with Paul and Carole from day one. That is how you play the game. The official organization is only Paul and Carole doing their thing. I well remember being at one IFBB show years ago and had a question about a contest so I asked Paul. He told me to ask Carole so I did. She told me to ask Paul. Yes, perfect symmetry. His son once asked Paul how to fix a machine. He was told to get a hammer to knock a bolt in. The son returned and asked Paul what to do because he couldn't get the part in. He was told to get a bigger hammer! Yes, Chick is a small hammer in the IFBB. When he stumbles the bigger hammers take over and get the job done. It is all about power in the IFBB and gone is the idea of looking after the bodybuilders and being honest and fair to everyone.

timfogarty · « **Reply #314 on:** April 20, 2009, 04:35:53 PM »

Quote from: Vince Basile on April 20, 2009, 04:31:26 PM

It is all about power in the IFBB and gone is the idea of looking after the bodybuilders and being honest and fair to everyone.

gone, by 45 years

Frank D. Law · « **Reply #315 on:** April 20, 2009, 04:37:35 PM »

Quote from: Chick on April 20, 2009, 04:22:17 PM

LOL...what a fuckin idiot. You belong with that list of fools o you mention...

So because the ABBF falls under the IFBB, the Pro League has something to do with it? Here is a newsflash, Einstein...there are 180 countries under the IFBB.

And no, *I* have never met Paul Chua, or the overwhelming majority of IFBB amateur officials which are overseas, and a part of the other 180 countries.

Get a clue

Yeah, Chick. You sound like you're really losing the plot...descending into abusive language when you are cornered. It's truly sad as you, in my view, is probably the least culpable amongst the circus clowns in the IFBB Pro League. Let's just say that you are the trapeze artist in the org. Just keep a safety net below you ok, as humpty dumpty is 'bout fallin off the WALL, if your balance is as convoluted as your arguments!

Chick · « **Reply #316 on:** April 20, 2009, 05:00:33 PM »

Quote from: timfogarty on April 20, 2009, 04:29:40 PM

you don't even see your inconsistency?

1) the IFBB Pro League has nothing to do with the international IFBB and the ABBF. they are completely separate. the Pro League does not report to anyone in the international IFBB

2) the IFBB Pro League falls under the umbrella of the IFBB and Milos was suspended for criticizing a fellow member of the IFBB

There is nothing inconsistant about it...consider them as franchises, this may hep you in your understanding.

Frank D. Law · « **Reply #317 on:** April 20, 2009, 05:22:01 PM »

Quote from: Chick on April 20, 2009, 05:00:33 PM

There is nothing inconsistant about it...consider them as franchises, this may hep you in your understanding.

Aha, the confession at last! Franchises, did you say, Chick?

So the Master Franchisor is the IFBB and the franchisees are the IFBB Pro League, the ABBF, etc. That explains it. Now it all jives! The unholy haste to throw the book at Milos for daring to complain about the corrupt practices of Paul Chua and the ABBF (a franchisee)!

The IFBB Pro League was constrained all along to do the bidding of the Prez. of the Master Franchisor to take action against one of its own (Milos) for daring to criticize the corrupt conduct of one of its other franchisees (Paul Chua and ABBF)!

Paul Chua is the Prez of "Good Health Distributors Pte Ltd", the official franchisee of Weider Products for Asia. It all makes sense now!

Chick · « **Reply #318 on:** April 20, 2009, 06:04:07 PM »

Quote from: Frank D. Law on April 20, 2009, 05:22:01 PM

Aha, the confession at last! Franchises, did you say, Chick?

So the Master Franchisor is the IFBB and the franchisees are the IFBB Pro League, the ABBF, etc. That explains it. Now it all jives! The unholy haste to throw the book at Milos for daring to complain about the corrupt practices of Paul Chua and the ABBF (a franchisee)!

The IFBB Pro League was constrained all along to do the bidding of the Prez. of the Master Franchisor to take action against one of its own (Milos) for daring to criticize the corrupt conduct of one of its other franchisees (Paul Chua and ABBF)!

Paul Chua is the Prez of "Good Health Distributors Pte Ltd", the official franchisee of Weider Products for Asia. It all makes sense now!

LOL....wow.

Weider Nutrition has zero to do with any of this....yes, franchises....much like owning a McDonalds. You own your own, but ultimately, answer to the corporate office and tyheir rules and guideleines.

Big revelation you stumbled on there

Ron · « **Reply #319 on:** April 20, 2009, 06:10:39 PM »

From how I see it, the IFBB Pro League is different than the IFBB amatuer federation, which there are around 180 coutries around the world. In the US, the NPC is the amatuer federation which then, if you win various contests, you can become a pro in the IFBB Pro League. Whereas in other countries, you need to do well in the IFBB amatuers and become a pro within each country to compete in the IFBB Pro League.

It is different - the ABBF was the amatuer organization under the IFBB. The IFBB Pro League is the professional organization. Is there a link. Of course, but are they completely different. Yes.

Milos chose to attack the IFBB without the necessary proof at the time. He was suspended, as the IFBB itself was being attacked.

Frank D. Law · « **Reply #320 on:** April 20, 2009, 06:25:01 PM »

Quote from: Ron on April 20, 2009, 06:10:39 PM

From how I see it, the IFBB Pro League is different than the IFBB amatuer federation, which there are around 180 coutries around the world. In the US, the NPC is the amatuer federation which then, if you win various contests, you can become a pro in the IFBB Pro League. Whereas in other countries, you need to do well in the IFBB amatuers and become a pro within each country to compete in the IFBB Pro League.

It is different - the ABBF was the amatuer organization under the IFBB. The IFBB Pro League is the professional organization. Is there a link. Of course, but are they completely different. Yes.

Milos chose to attack the IFBB without the necessary proof at the time. He was suspended, as the IFBB itself was being attacked.

Whilst I respect your opinion Ron, can you explain how Milos had attacked the IFBB? Baffling, as all he had done was to hold a press conference at the Asian Games imploring the IFBB to take action against the corrupt practices of Paul Chua and the ABBF!

timfogarty · « **Reply #321 on:** April 20, 2009, 07:19:46 PM »

Quote from: Ron on April 20, 2009, 06:10:39 PM

From how I see it, the IFBB Pro League is different than the IFBB amatuer

yes they are separate corporations.

Quote

federation

none of them are really federations

Quote

which there are around 180 coutries around the world. In the US, the NPC is the amatuer federation

the NPC is a privately held company. It is certainly not an athletic federation, as there are no athletic chapters, or athletic representatives. Unless you meant a federation of contest promoters

Quote

which then, if you win various contests, you can become a pro in the IFBB Pro League. Whereas in other countries, you need to do well in the IFBB amatuers and become a pro within each country to compete in the IFBB Pro League.

there are no real rules written down on how to become a pro. The IFBB Pro League, being a privately held for profit company, can invite or reject anyone they want.

Quote

It is different - the ABBF was the amatuer organization under the IFBB.

No, it isn't/wasn't. Its a privately held company, owned by Paul Chua, incorporated in Singapore.

Quote

The IFBB Pro League is the professional organization. Is there a link. Of course, but are they completely different. Yes.

the only link is that both were at one time owned by Ben Weider. They are completely separate entities now.

Quote

Milos chose to attack the IFBB without the necessary proof at the time. He was suspended, as the IFBB itself was being attacked.

There is no "IFBB itself". The IFBB Pro League is a different corporation that the International IFBB.

and then there is always the issue of whistleblower protection.

and still no one has address my comment about AMI. Flex and Muscle & Fitness were also once part of the IFBB, part of the Weider empire. Then it got sold off to AMI. Just like the IFBB Pro League got sold off to Manion. If an IFBB pro athlete were to criticize Pecker, would that be grounds for suspension?

Chick · « **Reply #322 on:** April 20, 2009, 07:50:05 PM »

AMI owns the publications...not the IFBB.

Unless you're an AMI contracted athlete, voicing an opinion of Pecker would be here nor there...

Your constant attention to trivial detail / semantics is pointless, Tim....

timfogarty · « **Reply #323 on:** April 20, 2009, 07:52:27 PM »

Quote from: Chick on April 20, 2009, 07:50:05 PM

Your constant attention to trivial detail / semantics is pointless, Tim....

trivial details and semantics is what wins or loses lawsuits

bigdumbbell · « **Reply #324 on:** April 20, 2009, 11:46:34 PM »

Quote from: Ron on April 20, 2009, 06:10:39 PM

From how I see it, the IFBB Pro League is different than the IFBB amatuer federation, which there are around 180 coutries around the world. In the US, the NPC is the amatuer federation which then, if you win various contests, you can become a pro in the IFBB Pro League. Whereas in other countries, you need to do well in the IFBB amatuers and become a pro within each country to compete in the IFBB Pro League.

It is different - the ABBF was the amatuer organization under the IFBB. The IFBB Pro League is the professional organization. Is there a link. Of course, but are they completely different. Yes.

Milos chose to attack the IFBB without the necessary proof at the time. He was suspended, as the IFBB itself was being attacked.

if it suspended the dude because it was "attacked", that's paranoid suggesting an element of truth to the allegation.