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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => History - Stories - and Memories => Topic started by: LatsMcGee on July 10, 2007, 01:46:29 AM
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Well due to popular demand I finally decided to start this thread. Over the next few weeks I will post as many Vince related articles as possible. They will be about training, diet, and everything else from the Gironda Universe. I figured I'd start it out with this article written by Vince.
The Essence of Bodybuilding
By Vince Gironda
(From Iron Man, May 1983)
I have stated numerous times that champions obviously possess something that others do not. Even though training partners do the same routine set for set, rep for rep, they do not obtain the benefits of the champions.
I have observed champions train in a manner I do not approve, but they receive results that are phenomenal. What is it that they possess? Well, I will tell you, they are using mental suggestion (self-hypnosis).
When I first observed this, it puzzled me. The first time I noticed Walt Baptiste, former gym owner and magazine publisher from San Francisco (Body Moderne), touching his abdominals while backstage before going out to pose at several physique contests, he seemed to be saying something to his abdominals as he stroked them. He seemed to be sending a message into this body section, because I could actually see the abs sharpen up and grow more outlined than his normal condition. I later discovered that Walt was sending mental images to his subconscious, to produce this phenomena.
I learned that you can actually produce the desired condition by picturing in your mind what you wish to manifest. He also breathed deeply and regularly in through his nose and out through his pursed lips. As you know, this type of breathing is employed between sets prior to repeating the next set. At this time, the mechanism employed should be to picture in your mind a clear image of the muscle or area of the body you wish to develop, and hold the image throughout the performance of that set.
Walt promoted the first Mr. California Physique Contests, in which I placed second and third several times. He later gave up his gym and opened a chain of yoga studios in the San Francisco area.
The technique of mental suggestion is what all physical culture writers are trying to explain when they throw that nebulous term "concentration" at you. They seem to recognize that concentration is necessary, but do not know how to trigger the mechanism that produces the phenomenon. The subconscious believes any thought you perceive, and stores it. It accepts everything that is thought or spoken by you or another, if you accept it as truth. But it must be repeated again and again until the subconscious accepts it as fact. Then it will produce the condition pictured in your mind.
This procedure is what I maintain is used by the champions, whether or not they are aware of it. They are convinced of a successful outcome.
This awareness is more important that any steroid drug, any diet plan or supplement, or any exercise routine ever conceived. I have observed bodybuilders who take steroids and receive no benefits. They take unimaginable amounts of supplements and constantly try new routines, but are not getting results, and never will until they discover that what I have written here is the true essence of bodybuilding. For years I have been asked by my fans to write the secrets of the champions, and here you have it.
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Facts and Comments
By Vince Gironda
(From Iron Man, July 1983)
I. Muscle growth is dependent on 2 things:
Utilization of amino acids by muscle cell for cellular growth (bigger myofibrils).
Entry of amino acids (final breakdown product of protein into cell).
For this to occur the amino acids must be in the serum (blood) and they must have the mechanism to get into the cell.
Working out lowers blood sugar. The body shuts or slows down the insulin production. The body produces glucagon to raise blood sugar.
Insulin is the primary driver of amino acids into the cell.
II. Workout too hard and:
burn all your energy reserves
shut down insulin production
increase glucagon production
start working out on your "neuro transmitters" (norepinephrine) you shake – "over tonus"
blood sugar falls
amino acids don’t get into cell
muscle growth can’t occur
muscle growth can only occur after the work out when over tonus subsides (eat)
Moral:
Keep Amino Acids high in blood.
Keep insulin going (production).
Don’t burn-off all energy reserves during workout, so you don’t shut off all the insulin.
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Workouts and Body Rhythm
By Vince Gironda
(From Iron Man, November 1983)
I once wrote an article entitled "Muscle Confusion," which was not understood by many. Readers actually made fun of it. I will now attempt to explain in more detail the essence of that article. The following is dedicated to those of little faith and to the ones who resist change.
I am sure you are aware of the fact that due to your biorhythms you do not get a good workout every time you train. For instance, how often do you achieve that intangible state when every move you make seems to be letter-perfect? When this phenomenon occurs, you realize what you should experience every time you train.
Apparently, the body is trying to tell you that it does not respond to the same workout routine every workout session. So, if you understand this fact, you use different exercises, tempos, combinations of exercises and seemingly illogical sets and reps, or lack of sets and reps.
I have found that man’s logic and nature’s logic are totally different. In other words, try breaking the rules and see what happens.
Suggested routines:
3 sets of 8 reps.
6 sets of 6 reps.
5 sets of 5 reps.
10-8-6-15.
Compound routines.
Super sets.
Push-day and pull-day techniques.
Circuit- or station-type routine.
10 sets for 10 reps.
Non-specific bulking routine.
Chest and back day, arms and delt day, legs third day.
Up and down the rack (shock principle).
Specialization principle day. (Everyday).
3 days on and 3 days off routine (including supplements).
21 days and 7 rest experiment.
Ascending principle and descending principle.
72-hour-rest routine (2 times per week workout).
3 ½ minutes between sets technique.
Reps and burns workout.
1+ ½ workout.
1 set to failure + 15 minutes rest.
1 set every hour (all day)
1 muscle a day (overload principle)
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The Ultimate Decision: Bodybuilder or Weightlifter
By Ron Kosloff N/C of NSP Research Nutrition
You are going to come to a crossroad in our game where you are going to have to decide whether you want to be a bodybuilder or a weightlifter. A bodybuilder sculpts the body to make each and every muscle stand out. If Vince Gironda’s method is used, all four heads are worked to really make the muscle take shape, have definition, and aesthetics. A weightlifter (tugger, swinger, puller…you know what I mean) endeavours to have a large ego as well as large muscles. To my way of thinking, weightlifting exercises are a conglomeration of cheating movements.
For instance, a bench press is a cheating exercise where you use about six (6) muscles. Plant you feet on the floor, arch your back, and immediately you are using the terrous major muscle. You also put your thumbs around the bar (this should never be done -- you should always use a palm grip) and immediately you use the forearms. Now you’re using your back and your forearms as well. Once you arch your back and get your feet in a planted position, primarily the exercise is inner deltoid. When you do this, you are using your biceps and triceps. So you’re using roughly six muscles including the pectorals to so-called lift the weight, never really developing any muscle, never shaping or sculpting it.
As I said earlier, you should never put your thumbs around the bar. When you do, in any exercise, you will bring your forearms into play. As an example when working your biceps, half of the exercise will be forearms and the other half is biceps. That’s why people say to me, "Every time I do curls, I feel it in my forearms." That’s right, because you are wrapping your thumbs under the bar, which is called a palm grip, or a false grip.
Of course, if you do want to be a weightlifter, tugger, and what not, you will have to realize that sooner or later you are going to injure every joint, muscle, ligament, and tendon in your body. All for sake of saying, "I’m a power lifter and I can lift 400 pounds." It’s not going to get you any muscle shape. It will, however, cause you lots of pain, and it will only get worse as you age.
With most power lifters, diet is thrown to the wind because they eat anything and everything. Technically, the more you weigh the more you can lift. You will have to ask yourself if that’s how you want to look, or do you want to look like a bodybuilder? This is the ultimate decision that you’re going to have to make.
When I first got into the game, I was a member of a YMCA. I would go there to swim and shoot pool once in a while. Occasionally, I would see these really big fellows come in. They were huge. I soon found out that they were weightlifters. I went to the weightlifting room to observe and was just standing around and one of them said to me, "Come on in, we’ll show you how to lift." I thought, "Oh boy!!! This looks good to me."
Most people who lift weights have some sort of an inadequacy complex. I won’t say inferiority complex, but they feel inadequate and their self-esteem is low. I knew mine was. I had always been extremely slender. They showed me all of these exercises and I was thrilled. Naturally, I couldn’t lift the amount that they were lifting because they were much older than I, but I made an attempt. I thought this was how you attained a decent body because I had seen pictures of Steve Reeves. I never knew how he worked out. I had seen some pictures of the old-time bodybuilders and I thought bodybuilders and weightlifters were one in the same. I had no idea they were that different. I recalled seeing bodybuilding magazines with the type of physique I liked.
After I worked out my first night, everyone hit the showers. I was looking around at these guys and said to myself, "Holy smokes, I don’t want to look like that!" They all had big guts and large rear-ends. These guys were big and strong, but they were not impressive at all. They didn’t have the look of a bodybuilder. That is when I found out that there was a huge difference, but since I was a kid, I just didn’t know. At the YMCA at that time if you were a bodybuilder you were considered a little funny. They would hold a bodybuilding contest, but it would be in the basement. A man posing, shaving his body -- this was unheard of. So, the weightlifters got all the attention.
I used to go to some of the weightlifting meets. When I first walked in, I saw all of these guys with bandaged shoulders, wrist, and knees. I could smell the liniment. It was horrible. I could hear them saying, "I ruined my knee, sprained my ankle, hurt my back, etc." I thought to myself, "This sure as hell isn’t something that I want to get into." After observing that, I knew right away that I didn’t want to be a weightlifter. As an older guy today, I don’t have many injuries except for some scar tissue in my left shoulder and left knee when I tried to prove I could lift a weight that I couldn’t. When scar tissue forms, it never goes away. If you try and lift weight that Mother Nature never intended for you to lift in the first place, you are going to injure yourself. Most of my life being a bodybuilder, I never taxed the scar tissue in my shoulder or knee, so I have never had any injuries. I never tore anything. I have never injured ligaments or tendons. Most power lifters, weightlifters and bodybuilders today take steroids. The simple fact is, and most people don’t understand, that steroids will certainly make you bigger, absolutely. They will make you tremendously stronger. They will anesthetize you. You will feel great when you take them. One thing that steroids can’t do is make your ligaments, tendons, and joints stronger. That’s one reason they’re so many injuries in sports in general. Some professional athletes are on steroids, either to get bigger and stronger or to recuperate from the strenuous, almost-yearlong endeavour of preparing for their jobs. My teacher, Vince Gironda, hated them, and he accused them of destroying the game that we partake in. When steroids first came into prominence in 1963, all meaningful advancement in natural bodybuilding ceased, which was tragic. Of course, it broke Vince’s heart. He hated steroids and he made it known and he stood alone.
At the YMCA, someone had posted a sign down in the dungeon, where the bodybuilders used to train, that the western YMCA was holding a bodybuilding contest. There were going to be ten (10) contestants. So, I got on the bus and went to the contest. The minute I saw those guys I knew it was exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to look good. I wanted to have shape, definition and aesthetics.
Most power lifters look down on bodybuilders as not strong people. This is simply not true. I try to explain (if people listen) there are two types of strength. There is individual muscle strength and there is group strength. Let’s say you lift 200 pounds in a standard bench press. I bet that you couldn’t do 200 pounds in a Vince Gironda neck press. What’s the difference? A neck press is where you lie on the bench with feet crossed and knees as close to your chest as you can. Your back is flat now. Take the weight off the rack and use a 90-degree grip between your forearm and your bicep. That’s your set position. Your back is flat and your chin is up. You start out with the weight elevated as high as you can get it and then slowly bring the bar down to the sternoclavicle, or your Adam’s apple, and then draw your elbows back.
In a standard bench press, you bring the bar down to the lower pectoral line, which now becomes an inner-deltoid exercise. When you bring the bar down to the sternoclavicle and pull your elbows back, you are getting a tremendous stretch between the top of the pectorals and the bottom. It is a tremendous exercise, but I bet you will cut your weight almost in half. Now you’re lifting 100 pounds with one muscle instead of 200 with six (6) muscles. That’s the difference between a weightlifter and a bodybuilder. You have to decide whether you want to impress people with how much weight you can cheat up or how you look.
When Larry Scott entered a bodybuilding contest, do you think the judges cared if he could do a 300-pound bench press? They didn’t care how much he could lift. They were concerned about how he looked. Did he have shape, definition, and aesthetics? People who do individual exercises have individual strength. Those who do group exercise have group strength. I cannot workout the way a weightlifter can but in turn he can’t workout the way I do.
I had a Canadian weightlifter come into my office (Detroit is just across the border from Canada) and he wanted to get liver and protein. We talked about Vince Gironda’s methods and he kind of scoffed at them. I said, "Marcel, what do you do in a curl. Do you ever do dumbbell curls?" He said that he used 60-75 pounds for dumbbell curls. I said, "I have two (2) 25 dumbbells here. Do you think you could do 8 sets of 8 repetitions?" He laughed at me. He thought it was funny. But I told him we were going to do it my way, not his way. "Put your heels together and toes apart. Bend your knees and hunch forward and put your chin to your chest. Grab the dumbbell with a palm grip and straighten your arm out. Start with the dumbbell on your fingertips. As you curl both weights you lock your elbows into your side. Hunch over so the weight at the bottom will have the same resistance when you contract at the top. You’re not leaning back and cheating the weight from a half movement to a full movement. Close your eyes and feel the weight. Feel the positives. Touch your deltoids and squeeze them as hard as you can for six (6) seconds, then feel the weight on the way down. Do a full set. Don’t drop the weight. Let it go down on your fingertips. Put the weight on the floor and hyperventilate for 15 seconds. Grab the weight again and do another set." It was a joke. On the second set, sixth rep, he couldn’t even lift the weight. Then I took the 25-pound dumbbells and I cranked out 6 sets of 8 reps and said, "See, technically I am stronger than you when I do an isolation exercise. But when you do a weightlifting exercise, you’re stronger than I am. That’s not to say I can’t be as strong as you. If I had the capabilities, I could not do as much weight, but I could increase my weight a lot."
The reason that Vince Gironda called the squat a sissy squat is because he would make sissies out of weightlifters when they would come in and do squats. Weightlifting squats are not basically a leg exercise. Certainly, you get big thighs but you ruin the proportion between your thighs, hips, abdomen, and lower back. As Vince had said, weightlifting squats do many things that you don’t want your body to be accustomed to like increase the size of your stomach because you push it out, widen your lower back, and get a big rear-end. Vince said he could tell an eastern bodybuilder when he came into his gym by the size of his rear-end. Vince would always warn people, and I have advocated this and told people at the Powerhouse Gym people, when I owned it, once you develop your glutes, you can never reduce them. They are the densest muscles in your body. People used to laugh at me, but many years later they now say they wish they would have listened.
Look at all the modern-day squatters who call themselves bodybuilders. They have rear-ends that proportionately are bigger than their legs. They look horrible. They walk like ducks. That’s the first thing I noticed at the YMCA. I want to warn all you bodybuilders. If you start to do squats, you will get a large rear-end that will never, never go away. I’d like a weightlifter to duplicate this. I saw Vince Gironda on a hack-slide/hack-squat machine that he invented. He went up on his toes with heels together, both knees would be pointed towards opposite walls (like a frog). I saw the man crank out 8 sets of 8 reps with 15 seconds of rest in between. I think the bar was around 225 pounds. Now that is strong! Most people do weightlifting squats because it’s easy to do. It’s much easier to bend over and use a group of muscles. When you isolate the thigh in hack slide versus a squat, you have one muscle lifting 225 pounds versus five (5) muscles lifting 400, which is a cheating exercise to begin with.
Now you ask the question, is it possible to be a bodybuilder and weightlifter? Well, unless you are a genetic superior like Vince Gironda always talked about, the answer is no. I have only seen two people in my life that were capable of doing both. One was an old-time bodybuilder/weightlifter who was on the U.S. Olympic team. His name was Tommy Kono and he represented York Barbell. He had a terrific physique. There are some people who can do squats because they have small hips and small glutes to begin with, but 95% of people can’t. He entered weightlifting and physique contests. Sergio Oliva, who defected from Cuba in the late 50s to early 60s, was a member of the Cuban weightlifting team. He didn’t look like a weightlifter, he looked like a bodybuilder, but he was blessed. When I watched him work out at the YMCA in Chicago, he had such a small waist and small hips and no rear-end to speak of so weightlifting squats didn’t affect him that much, if at all. When he started in bodybuilding, he was very successful, but he didn’t pay very much attention to his diet. When I watched him work out, he was eating some kind of pie and drinking a Coke. He didn’t look like he knew that much about nutrition, and that’s why when he competed against Larry Scott in 1966, Larry just blew him away. Vince once said, "If I ever trained Oliva nobody could touch him." He was such a genetic superior. He rivalled Don Howorth in bodybuilding proportions. I always thought Don had more potential, but Sergio just never practiced good nutrition. I guess he felt that he didn’t have to. When Scott beat him in the 1966 Olympia (I was there), Sergio was just dripping with oil. He put so much oil on his body to try to bring his definition out, and it really made him look worse. Because of his genetic superiority and the fact he was blessed, he went on to win many, many titles. One time I was at a seminar in Minneapolis, he was bragging that he beat everybody. I cleared my throat and said, "Sergio you never beat Larry Scott." He was quite embarrassed about that.
So, as I first stated, you will sooner or later have to choose -- good luck!
Thanks,
Ron Kosloff
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Vince Gironda: Why He Isn't Accepted
(Originally written in 1981)
By Ron Kosloff N/C of NSP Research Nutrition
Several people have asked me why I have written articles concerning Vince Gironda. Some have inferred an interest conflict, as he handles Natural Source in his gym and I distribute his courses in the East. Well, he handled the products long before I became a distributor! He owes me nothing and vice versa! I only see him once a year when I’m in L.A., and then just to say hello and have lunch. I do speak to him periodically when I order his courses. I will never forget that he helped me to make progress after I wasted two years on fruitless training methods. I, as Vince, am a very analytical person, and I did as much research on him and his methods as was possible. He has given so much to bodybuilding but has been virtually ignored. We all search for honesty in life and Vince is one of the most honest people I have ever met! This I immensely respect. It will take many words and examples, but I hope I can communicate with you and comprehensively explain the title, so please bear with me.
I felt the need to write my second article about Vince because I feel that all bodybuilders might listen and benefit from his teachings, and that his many critics would be understanding. Then, I hope both groups would have an open mind. Remember, 35 years of bodybuilding research is at your disposal, if you desire it!
It is still a fact that bodybuilders, gym owners, and so-called authorities either scoff at or just ignore Vince’s methods, and for very definite reasons. It is paradoxical, for I have personally discovered that his harshest critics have read or understand little or none of his philosophies, and have never given them an honest evaluation. I have observed that when someone has unorthodox views, he seemingly is always defending his views while being criticized for them. I can refer to Vince and myself, for he created his ideas and theories and I embrace them. Just being a proponent and exponent of his teachings has left me open to ridicule, arguments, and some friendly kidding. Inevitably, I’m asked why I am not Mr. America if his methods are superior. Well, I always answer that I am no Mr. America in any sense of the word – not even close! I work out to maintain a decent physique, my health, and I am aware of my genetic limits. But, I inject, that what I have attained would never have been possible if I hadn’t met Vince Gironda – period! Where Vince is concerned, it is very true that he never capped a major title. Concepts of the ultimate physique have repeatedly changed over the years and men that won contests did so with the physique that was "in style" at that period. When Vince competed, either you looked like John Grimek (bulky and smooth) or you lost – simple as that! Ironically, Vince always placed second or third and was branded "too defined," whatever that meant. If I have encountered these critics, then I have wondered about Vince himself, and the criticism he has taken for his unorthodox thinking. Of course, this reminds me of the fact that anyone who thinks differently than the so-called establishment is always ridiculed. You can categorize people as being a conformist or a non-conformist, a leader or a follower, and secure or insecure. Vince is fortunate that he is a non-conformist, a leader, and very secure. Coupled with the fact that he has an outstanding I.Q., it created the combination that has contributed immensely to the science of bodybuilding.
The gifts that humans possess that are unique among animals are the ability to reason and think. These abilities create many things, both good and bad, and unfortunately most of us don’t utilize these abilities enough. The people that do give us knowledge in the arts, sciences, engineering, medicine and bodybuilding. Here is a tangible point in that most of us just don’t realize what a scientific endeavor bodybuilding really is. A tremendous amount of mental and physical preparation must be anticipated, plus the nutritional and theoretical principles must be valid. Extensive planning is essential! A good number of us are not aware that bodybuilding was born of weightlifting – a son, so to speak. But these two endeavors are as different as languages. Where the weightlifter is huge and powerful, the bodybuilder is symmetrical and defined. The dawn of the modern physique appeared first around the late 1940s with the concept of a small waist, symmetry, non-drug size, and definition. It was Vince Girondia who applied the overload system, isolation, intensity, double breathing, palm grip, muscle confusion, kinesiology, sissy squats, no abdominal work, creating an illusion, creative posing, the neck press, and, finally, nutrition. The divorce had been made, and the bodybuilder had his own identity. Unfortunately, old ways die slowly and most trainers still utilize the non-productive methods.
When I think of all the excellent body builders that could profit immensely from Vince’s principles, Mike Mentzer comes to mind. Now please, I know that Mike is a certified winner and a gentleman. I've met him twice at different shows and liked him very much, but anyone can make improvements. I am certain that if Vince were speaking to Mike personally, he would give him this constructive advice:
Mike, you have a very large and overly developed gluteus maximus minimus and hips (rear end) from doing excessive weightlifting squats.
You have done excessive stomach work (sit-ups and leg raises) and it has increased the size of your waist. Relaxed and in repose it looks rather heavy, and an increase in waist width decreases optical shoulder width.
As you were born with very narrow shoulders (as was Larry Scott), you should de-emphasize working your trapezius muscles, for as they become larger, again, you lose optical shoulder width. You should concentrate on deltoid mass and create the illusion of width that you need (as Larry Scott did).
His suggestions prove the genetic obvious that each and every one of us have natural flaws in our physiques and therefore we must accentuate the positives and hide the negatives. Vince called this creating an illusion. This is exactly what makes Vince so outstanding, as he has thought of almost everything. He has never said that he was 100% correct in all aspects, and this is obvious in his new and revised courses. Even today, I think he is working with amino acids, for he, years ago, predicted they would someday replace protein for bodybuilders.
What bothers me most is that there are so many bodybuilders and trainers who utilize his methods, yet they give you the impression that it was their idea. Being an avid reader of most physique publications for the past few years, I have noticed several articles concerning different aspects of training. Enable me to describe some of them that I have read. One article dealt with the fact that bodybuilding was certainly more than 80% nutrition and gave some very familiar-sounding nutritional tips. Another said use muscle confusion for maximum gains; another spoke of intensity and the most amount of work in the least amount of time; one stated that isolation movements were supreme for best shape; then another suggested to eliminate stomach work when you’re on a gaining routine, and, last but not least, some author said that you should use a carbohydrate overload every fourth day for maximum definition. This is all well and good because facts were spoken, but not one author gave credit to Vince, as he has been advocating these methods since 1950. Why shouldn’t he, for he invented them? The only authors that give credit to Vince are Don Ross and Tim Brolus.
A few years ago, I took my products and courses to a contest that featured a famous guest-poser. At intermission, he was signing autographs and answering questions. We were sitting next to each other, and a young fellow asked him what the best method of training was. He replied, "To work out fast, short and intense." Another fellow asked if that wasn’t what Vince Gironda advocated. He replied that he wasn’t familiar with Vince’s methods and then proceeded to change the subject. I couldn’t believe what he had said, for earlier he was thumbing through Vince’s courses.
Ask yourself how you would feel if you discovered, researched, or invented something and you received absolutely no credit whatsoever. I’m certain that it would be very discouraging and frustrating. Of course, the fact is that egos and jealousy run rampant among bodybuilders, but I’m certain that you are well aware of this! Of course, this situation exists in life among countries, corporations, schools and churches, as well as both sexes. Think for a minute about yourself personally and someone at your company, at school, next door, and even in the gym, who is very popular, very good looking, exceptionally well-built, dated the best-looking girls, and to top it all off, was extremely intelligent. At some time or another you had envious feelings and were probably just a little jealous. It happens to all of us and, really, it’s just human nature!
This is one of the very problems that Vince has faced for years. We all have our peer groups, and Vince’s was the one that emerged in the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s with different approaches to physique training. There was Bob Hoffman, Jack LaLanne, Joe Weider, Dan Laurie, John Grimek, and lesser-known names. Each and everyone thought his methods were authoritative. But the fact is that Vince surpassed them all in training innovations, techniques, theory, and nutrition. Even today, most of them still don’t know what he is talking about! As I have always said, the only crime Vince Gironda ever committed is being 1000 years ahead of his time, being simply too smart and knowing too much. Another disadvantage Vince encounters is that he owns a very small gym and sells his courses and memberships. Now it should be quite obvious to everyone that the U.S.A’s economy is built upon consumer purchasing, coupled with tremendous advertising to sell products. Some say this promotion is based upon a form of subtle brainwashing with every conceivable psychological trick used to sell, including the old standby, sex! Just ask any kid what he wants for a treat, and with no hesitation he’ll say a candy bar or a McDonald’s, not vitamins or milk-and-egg protein! When Madison Avenue says we should use coffee, smoke cigarettes, consume Coca-Cola, or drink beer, we usually do. It is a mind-conditioning process. They routinely play with us and do our thinking for us – as in Howdy Doody!
Bodybuilding philosophy and thinking is, today, dominated by very slick publications whose sales of equipment, vitamins, and courses is in the millions, and their advertising budget is also! Some of these magazines have some control of physique contests and committees by sponsorship alone. The publications recruit and contract top bodybuilders to endorse their products and philosophies. An old proverb states, "Whose bread you eat is whose song you sing!" Get the point? Many of the top stars have either trained at Vince’s or practiced his methods, but you’ll never know this, for there is a definite conflict of interests involved. Vince Gironda has never paid any physique man a cent and has never had one under contract! It is obvious that these publications feel toward Vince as the medical profession feels about vitamins and minerals – an economic threat!
Now enter the impressionable mind of a young trainee who sees these physique stars in full-color ads implying that if you use this product or that course, you’ll look like him, in a very short time. Usually his idol is next to, or holding a half-nude young lady, to seal a lasting impression, and if he’ll bomb, blast, bang, and blitz his brains out, he’ll be a bona fide winner! His idol also belongs to the magazine’s research clinic, so it’s got to be valid, and, after all, his idol wouldn’t lie to him, would he? By the way, I have searched, and I have never been able to locate this research clinic because it just plain never existed.
So now what we have is a little guy like Vince competing against a million-dollar magazine promotion of bodybuilder philosophy. Guess who will win? No contest, to be sure.
So now the young trainee enters the gym and is ready to proceed with the task of becoming a champion. A trait of human beings is that we always seem to conform to the environment that we’re exposed to, and this holds very true in the gym where we train. In America we’re always taught that the harder you work, the greater your rewards, but this theory has no relation to increasing muscle size and definition. In the many number of gyms that I have been to, I have only seen a handful of people working out correctly. One reason is that most people conform to the standard way of training or as all the other fellows in gym train. This is comprised of 20 to 30 sets of 5 to 8 exercises per bodypart, plenty of squats, enormous poundages, cheating, lengthy workouts, many sit-ups and leg raises, excessive chatter and talking, very little concentration because of the loud rock music, and very limited knowledge of nutrition. Most trainees have little or no concept of how to train correctly, so therefore the result is failure! I know exactly what it is, for I have experienced it all!
So, I’m encouraging the bodybuilder to think, reason, and explore all the methods, but at least give Vince a real chance to help you!
The inevitable question that I am asked is, "What is Vince like personally? I will give you a short summary, because I have only observed him in the gym. To begin with, and I’ve said this often, he is extremely outspoken – painfully so! He certainly wouldn’t be ordained a Lutheran minister, and I’m positive that no public relations firm would hire him. His sardonic manner would give Don Rickles an inferiority complex. He is definitely not concerned whether you like him or not, because he is the best at what he does, and he knows it! I heard him once say that unfortunately he was stuck with his personality. At times he can be so very nice that you would like to hug him, and at other times you’d like to choke him. His sense of humor in monumental, and an infinite stream of jokes are cracked during the day. I’ve taken workouts when he wasn’t present and the atmosphere was definitely lacking. He is an extremely interesting person and absolutely has charisma. Vince’s pride is still very much in tact, for he keeps in constant shape, even to this day. Comparing physiques, you’ll find no one his age that can even come close. Today we have a Mr. Over 40 contest with so many outstanding men, but I wish they would stage a Mr. Over 60. It would be dull, of course, because Vince would be the only contestant and winner. The old guard that I spoke of earlier wouldn’t dare compete.
One feeling that I have always had is that he is extremely sensitive and hurt because he has not been recognized and respected for his contributions! I’ll take the optimistic view that there is still time remaining.
Let us all look to the future and explore the very legitimate possibility that in the next century the science of bodybuilding and nutrition will be taught in our schools and colleges as courses. Required nutritional reading will be by Vince Gironda, Rheo Blair, Dr. Kurt Donsbach, Dr. Carlton Fredericks, and Adell Davis. Workout philosophy will be, I feel, by Vince Gironda. So hold on to all of Gironda’s courses, for some day they will be valuable. Of course, at this time there is no established school or college that teaches bodybuilding, so we are all on our own to educate ourselves. Until then, maybe I can recommend a place that I refer to as G.U. (Gironda University). If you’re ever in North Hollywood, drive west on Venture Boulevard past Universal Studios until you come to 11262. There you’ll find what you’re searching for – knowledge!
Again, looking to the future, we might also see a bodybuilder’s "Hall of Fame." Many of the champions we’ve known, Grimek, Reeves, Scott, Arnold, and Zane, will be featured, and I feel that the master of the teachers will finally be given his due – Vince Gironda.
So, as I have steadfastly implied for 16 years, whether you choose to accept it or not, that there is only one authority in bodybuilding today, and he is Vince Gironda. I just hope bodybuilders will see through all the B.S. of commercial publications where big dollars distort the facts and give Vince a chance, for he deserves the respect for his honesty, truthfulness and dedication to our sport!
Ron Kosloff
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Manual for Gym Instructions
Posted Monday, October 23, 2006
Filed under Training
(IronMan Magazine Jan 1977 Vol. 36 No. 2)
1. Develop illusion of width across chest (parallel dips, dip slide or ped push-ups.)
2. Increase chest measurement by accentuating taper (Terris Major) with short pull (chest concave, elbows wide) not lats
3. Bring up arm measurement with peak bicep (Spider bench) double contraction
4. Pull out middle tricep for corresponding line of measurement on tape, with pulley push down (elbows firm to body and thumbs on top of bar.)
5. Bring out dramatic illusion of width by using DB laterals or shoulder width upright rowing. Laterals are tilted down (front bell - elbows bent.)
6. Give no abdominal work of any kind or you will stop all muscle growth.
7. Give forearm work seated on bench (straddle and actually lay bar on bench each rep (singles).) Thumbs must be under bar. Forearms and wrists are on top of thighs with wrists hanging over knees.
8. Reverse BB curls are done with collar width grip and bar rubs body on the curl and down. Hacks are done in Frog Squat position, heels together and back under hips. Toes are wide - 12 inches.
9. Calves are always done with shoes 4" wide and come up on big toe drawing heel together at top of movement (knees are unlocked).
Nutrition will not be discussed because nutrition is highly individualized.
Do not deviate from these exercises because anything other than this routine will not cause super fast visual results.
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Filed under Back Building, Vince's Gym
Vince, I have to tell you that you are the greatest trainer ever. After spending three weeks at “Vince’s” I learned more than I would have in a lifetime training in my hometown.
Thank you for helping me get on the right track. I am still improving almost every workout, but I need a little advice about back building.
I notice that I neither have width or thickness in my lats. Any help would be appreciated.
Glad you enjoyed your stay John.
I liked working with you because you listened so diligently.
With regard to your back I suggest you train the area twice a week but use three different back routines (rotating them in order).
Workout No. One. Wide grip chins (to front), T-Bar Rows, Long Floor Pulley Rows
Workout No. Two. Racing-dive lat pulls, Close grip chin, Dumbell Rowing
Workout No. Three. Medium grip chin, Close grip pulldowns to chest, Hyper extensions.
Start with three sets of each exercise (eight reps) and work up to five sets of each.
As you get into the program decrease the rest time between sets as much as possible but not so much as to allow deep breathing to interfere with exercise performance.
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Basics?
Posted Friday, February 10, 2006
Filed under Training
(Musclemag Oct'84)
I am from the school of basics when it comes to bodybuilding. I have been training since my teens in the mid sixties alwayss using heavy weights and basic exercises. My system has always been Press Behind Neck, Squats, Bench Press, Rowing and barbell curls. I perform eight sets of five reps for all exercises and my workouts take about 3 hours. I do have some fair size but I do not really look impressive. Any suggestions?
For someone who has been training for around twenty years you better have gotten something from your training. Your routine stinks! And the worst thing is that you take three hours to do it. Limited routines such as yours are OK for short periods but to do the same basics for twenty years!!! Where have you been?
Get more variety in your training and increase the reps to 8-10. I suggest you split a routine based on working each muscle group with three different exercises at least, maybe four. If you want shape and impressiveness then I suggest you use specific isolation exercises. Kill your love affair with the basics. After twenty years it's about time.
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DIPS AND CHINS
Posted Friday, November 04, 2005
Filed under Chest
by Vince Gironda
I do not think I have seen six men in my life do a chin properly. Don Howorth was one of them. Don pulled up with his chest high and touched his chest to the bar almost as low as his low Pec line. His elbows were drawn down to his sides, touching his lats, and with the chest high and the shoulders down and back, he contracted his lats to the maximum.
If you look up the function of the lat in any Kinesiology book, it will show that the lat – in the fully contracted position – the shoulders are drawn down and back! Round the back and shoulders forward, and you shift to the Teres major muscles. Also, if you do not arch your back to full contraction, you will not develop any of the fibres across the back that attach to the spine. This will give you a flat underdeveloped look with no thickness.
This is how you do the chin: Reach up and grasp the chinning bar, but not too wide…closer than you ordinarily do them, because the lats are partially contracted in a wide grip. Next, stand on a box so that you can jump up into the contracted position and hold at the top for a split second. Now, lower your body and stand on the box (Do singles). Jump up again and touch your low pec to the bar and arch the back. Most important – elbows must touch the sides in the top or contracted position to achieve maximum contraction.
The next most abused exercise is the parallel dip for pec development. The average bodybuilder does this exercise with his elbows back and his chest up and the back arched. Also, he does not drop down low enough, plus his body usually swings due to excessive speed in pec – forming the exercise. The proper way to dip is as follows: Hands should be 32” wide, elbows straight out to the sides (never back), and chin on chest. Chest must be concave and back rounded, feet forward under the head. In short, the body is in a crescent shape. The bottom of the dipping movement is the most important part of the dip; the first 8-10 inches are very isolated pec and most important – dipping receives less help from the deltoid than any other pec exercise. Bench Press plus Incline Dumbell Press – knuckles not facing each other but forward, about 90 percent assistance from delts. The wider the parallel bar, the wider the stress on the pec where the pec disappears under the front deltoid. This gives the chest a greater illusion of width.
Here, in Vince’s Gym, we have V-shaped parallel dip bars and by just moving your hands back you get a wider portion of the pec. By the way, if you hump up your back at the top of the movement, you work the Serratus muscles very forcibly.
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Gironda site links:
http://www.criticalbench.com/VinceGironda.htm
http://www.criticalbench.com/Gironda.htm
http://www.vincesgym.com/index.html
http://ironguru.com/
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Great thread!
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Great articles from Lat's McGree. Can clear up some of the mis-information and confusion about Gironda's methods and training programs. For Example: last year I mentioned the benefits of the "V" dipping bar and Gironda's different way(s) of doing the exercises with that "V" designed bar. The Pumpster, for what ever reason, had a meltdown and said that there was never any piece of equipment like the "V" bar and for me to prove it. And that Gironda never did have any connection with a thing like that. So I had to send the poor fellow three places where he could buy a "V" dipping bar. Also enclosed an article , by Gironda, on training on such a device. Hope it helped The Pumpster to understand better. The thing is , we have two "V" dipping bars (one of mental and the other with 2X6's) for years in our gym. Lat's McGee opens up the opportunity for all of us to learn (me included) more from the genius of the original Italian stallion, Vince Gironda.
Like some of Gironda's diet thinking, that steak and egg's together (three times a day if you could swing it) was a top muscle builder. Also heavy cream ( even whipping creme) and eggs with protein powder. What influence Rheo Blairs protein powder really had with Gironda and his training ideas. Liver tabs taken throughout the day. And a couple cups of coffee to jump start the workouts. All interesting stuff. If you got the time Lat's, than keep it coming. Or if any of you experienced veterans would like to lay some stuff on all of us, than welcome.
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Great articles from Lat's McGree. Can clear up some of the mis-information and confusion about Gironda's methods and training programs. For Example: last year I mentioned the benefits of the "V" dipping bar and Gironda's different way(s) of doing the exercises with that "V" designed bar. The Pumpster, for what ever reason, had a meltdown and said that there was never any piece of equipment like the "V" bar and for me to prove it. And that Gironda never did have any connection with a thing like that. So I had to send the poor fellow three places where he could buy a "V" dipping bar. Also enclosed an article , by Gironda, on training on such a device. Hope it helped The Pumpster to understand better. The thing is , we have two "V" dipping bars (one of mental and the other with 2X6's) for years in our gym. Lat's McGee opens up the opportunity for all of us to learn (me included) more from the genius of the original Italian stallion, Vince Gironda.
Like some of Gironda's diet thinking, that steak and egg's together (three times a day if you could swing it) was a top muscle builder. Also heavy cream ( even whipping creme) and eggs with protein powder. What influence Rheo Blairs protein powder really had with Gironda and his training ideas. Liver tabs taken throughout the day. And a couple cups of coffee to jump start the workouts. All interesting stuff. If you got the time Lat's, than keep it coming. Or if any of you experienced veterans would like to lay some stuff on all of us, than welcome.
Man i'm in his mind so bad..I've been putting forth all sorts of good stuff on training. In fact i notice that the usual move is to follow my post with one basically regurgitating what's already been said. In the usual blowhard fashion, of course.
Glad i've got a good student. ;D
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Putting all sorts of good stuff on training would be a great idea.......wonder when The Pumpster will start doing that. Soon, I hope. He can Feel free to post me any time for some more useful ideas. Hope this helps the little guy.
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hahahaha, man we have to get a picture of this beast "JPM", this guy claims absolutely monster lifts but has no picture posted to show the results of this brutal training, i'm calling this guy out to step up and prove that he knows what he's doing.
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Pics of some of "jpms" 1/16 ROMs.
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In this one, old coot "jpm" moved this load at least 2".
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Stubborn Arms
Posted Wednesday, February 21, 2007
Filed under Arms, Training
Can you give me a simplified arm program?
I do not have much time to exercise, but I can do it regularly. I have tried various routines of different champions but my arms have not gained even though I was performing six different exercises for my forearms, biceps and triceps.
My arms seem to pump up well when I train but the next day they are back to normal.
You are doing too many exercises for your arms. Try just one for each section as follows; but first you should stimulate your metabolism so that arm growth comes quicker.
1. BREATHING SQUATS
Barbell squats straight back with heels elevated 1-1 ½”. Preferably, front squat, bar on chest, heels about 20 inches wide, knees a comfortable width, about 24 inches.
In the erect position, take 2 very deep breaths and hold the second breath and squat (back straight) and return to upright position and exhale.
Perform 3 sets of 15 repetitions, 2 to 3 minutes rest between sets.
2. DUMBELL CURLS
Stand in front of the dumbbell rack and pick up a pair of 20 pound dumbbells, palms facing thighs, curl left dumbbell slowly, turning palm up and bending to the left.
Watching dumbbell travel up to shoulder, hand should be outside deltoid at contracted position. At this point, turn your head to the right and start to curl right dumbbell simultaneously.
As you curl the right weight, lower the left hand back to starting position.
Counting with your left hand, complete four repeats only. Next step: put dumbbells back on rack and take 2 deep breaths and shake your arms and pick up the next heaviest set and do 4 repetitions.
Proceed until you have curled the heaviest set of dumbells you can handle (creative cheating is ok).
Next step: work down the rack to your starting sets. That’s it for biceps. Don’t do any other biceps work.
3. TRICEPS
Barbell pullover and press: Lie on your back on workout bench with head slightly off the end so you can lower the bar below head.
Take a 12” grip (overhand) and keeping elbows in, to parallel with body, lower bar down, back over head and slightly below bench level, with elbows in and up, pull barbell over face to low pec line.
At this point, swing elbows out wide and press barbell up and forward, ending at arms length over stomach (forward press).
Lower barbell back down to chest and roll elbows in, parallel to body, and push bar back over face to starting position (4 sets of 12 reps).
4. FOREARMS
Take a 12” wide grip on a barbell. Bend over forward and place your forearms on the top of your thighs.
Wrist breaks at the knee so you have full movement of barbell with your thumbs under bar, let the bar roll down to fingertips.
Slowly close hand and curl wrist back to contract position, and in this position count 2.
Please do 12 reps!
Next, compound set is the standing overhand body drag curl, with thumbs on top of bar, start with a grip, overhand grip wider than your body and reverse.
Curl barbell with the bar in contact with your body. Curl wrists back at contracted position and count 2.
Next, go back to your bent over wrist curl for your second set and then second set of reverse body drag.
That’s it!
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High-pulls
Posted Tuesday, November 01, 2005
Filed under Shoulders
One of Vinces favorite exercises for the side delt was a variation on the upright row. He called them "high pulls."
- Overhand grip on the bar about shoulder-width apart.
- At the "low position" the bar rests on the front of the thighs and the elbows are slightly bent.
- With the elbows pulled high the bar is raised to about the top of your head.
- At the raised position, the bar should be about 12 inches (30 cm) in front of the head.
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Sergio Oliva
Posted Thursday, March 01, 2007
Filed under Vince's Gym, Training the Stars
Do you train Sergio Oliva? I think he is the best bodybuilder around even today.
I saw you at the Olympia (outside the Felt Forum on the day of the contest) in New York, but you were surrounded by fans so I did not get to shake your hand and say hi!
This was the first time I had seen you, and also the first time I had seen Sergio and I must admit I got a real kick out of seeing you both.
I am going to buy your book “Unleashing the Wild Physique” right now.
One last thing, I had heard that Sergio’s posing was not all that hot, yet I thought he did pretty well at the Olympia. What did you think?
No! I do not train Sergio, but he does stop over at my gym whenever he’s in the Los Angeles area.
You could almost say that Sergio doesn’t need my training because I specialize in bringing out the flared tapered look on physiques (wide shoulders, narrow hips and waist) and Sergio already has this look naturally. He’s a genetic superior.
Regarding New York, I must admit it was a joy to meet so many fans of my training methods. I didn’t realize so many youngsters were sympathetic to my methods. I was overwhelmed by so many polite and gracious young enthusiasts, I couldn’t believe it! I appreciate every one of them.
Sergio’s posing? I liked it. I thought he presented a nice mix of muscle and artistic attitudes. He looked great too!
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Posted Wednesday, January 25, 2006
Filed under Training the Stars, Training
Mohamed Makkawy wrote this article before leaving to compete in last year's Mr Olympia contest in Munich, Germany. He was placed second to Samir Bannout, but went on to win the Grand Prix that followed the Mr Olympia, an achievement that saw him crowned as Grand Prix champion, and hailed as today's most successful competing bodybuilding star. He is hot favourite to win the title this year. Now you too can follow the routine of the "Magic Egyptian" for success!
As I write this article I am preparing for the 1983 Mr Olympia contest which will be held in Munich, Germany, on September 24th, 1983. September 25th there is a Grand Prix contest in Zurich, then September 27th a Grand Prix contest in Sweden. Then October 1st the final Grand Prix contest in London, England.
Since I intend to enter all these contests in order to try and win the Grand Prix Championship I must train and diet in such a way that I keep my condition for all four contests. Many bodybuilders will enter the Mr Olympia and then give up after that, trying not to compete any more.
It is very difficult to hold a contest peak for even eight days, because at least a week before the contest I am practically starving, living only on special amino acids that I get from my trainer Vince Gironda. When I enter more than one contest, as is the case this time, then I must stay on this diet an extra week.
Since the Night of the Champions in May, I have been training very, very hard, and have turned down many appearances and seminars so that I could train and not repeat what happened before the Night of the Champions. My routine this time has been geared to get me as cut up and defined as possible, and also to place special emphasis on the back. Even though I show only one back routine in this article sometimes I vary it doing additional exercises on alternate days. My body has been responding very well, and I feel I have improved in all areas, but especially the back and arms. When the pictures of the Mr Olympia come out be sure to look at them and see if you agree that my arms are larger and more defined now than ever before.
The reason that I am going for more definition is that I expect my chief competition to come from Frank Zane and Samir Bannout. Both these bodybuilders are very symmetrical and well defined. Therefore the strategy of my manager, Ken Wheeler, and my trainer, Vince Gironda, has been to get me as cut to the bone as possible. But I must also have better development bodypart by bodypart in order to win. That is why, for example, I am doing so much work on my back. Frank and Samir both have excellent backs, so I must have too. Also by emphasising the arms I think I can overshadow them in the arm poses.
My posing routine will still use "Chariots of Fire" as a musical background, but I have made a few changes in it to try and show my back, shoulders and arms more. Vince has worked with me on this routine — I have just come back from training in California with him for two weeks and he says I am ready!
My diet has been the same as it always is when preparing for a contest. In other words I start out by eating only meat, chicken and fish (zero carbohydrates), then as the contest gets nearer I reduce the amount of food and take amino acids and liver tablets instead until in the last week when I live entirely on amino acids and liver tablets and no food.
My exact routine is listed below. However unless you are an advanced bodybuilder do not try and follow it exactly or you will lose muscle size. Notice how many times a day I train! For a better understanding of my recommendations for those who are not yet ready to compete in high level contests, I would like to advise you that I have completed my new training courses that Bob Kennedy has mentioned before in his "Bodypower" gossip column. Details of my courses are available if you write to me at: Super Fitness Centres Inc, 2110 Dundas Street East, Mississauga, Ontario L4X 1L9, Canada.
This is the way I am currently training. Every morning, Monday to Friday I work my legs completely. On every afternoon of these same days I work my back. On Monday and Thursday nights I work my chest. Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday nights I work my arms. And if you think I take a rest on Sundays you're mistaken! As the contest season comes around I do not allow myself this luxury. Most Sundays I will do some miscellaneous exercises, training any area that I feel needs extra attention. Currently I am doing some back and shoulder work during these Sunday sessions.
The last time details of my training routine were published I was performing most exercises for twelve reps each set. Right now I am doing eight reps in most exercises, handling a little more weight than I used to with twelve reps. I am noticing that my calves, as well as my back and arms, are all growing well. Of course this does not mean that eight reps are necessarily better than twelve. It is probably the shock value of the change–over.
I may well go back to higher reps again one day and enjoy yet another growth cycle. I train at a pretty fast pace aiming to keep a good style in every exercise. I do not perform heavy duty style training, neither do I perform forced or negative reps to increase basic power. Remember that back home in Egypt I used to be an Olympic weightlifter, and that's where I paid my dues with endless heavy, power workouts.
As I close this article, I would like to say a sincere thank you to all those who have supported me... my fans are my strength. They make me want to get better and better. Good luck in your training!
Mohamed Makkawy's Olympia Routine:
Chest
* Flat bench press (to neck): 5 x 8
* 20° Bench press (to neck): 5 x 8
* Incline bench press 40°: 5 x 8
* Bent arm pullover: 5 x 8
* Wide grip "Gironda" dips: 5 x 8
* Straight arm pullover: 5 x 10
Back
* High bench rowing: 5 x 8
* Pullups to waist: 5 x 8
* Wide grip chins behind neck: 5 x 8
* Wide grip pulldowns to chest: 5 x 8
Legs
* Hack squat: 5 x 8
* Seated pulley leg squeeze: 5 x 10
* Thigh curl: 5 x 10
* Thigh extension: 5 x 8
* Roman chair: 5 x 10
* Flat thigh extensions: 5 x 8
* Seated calf raise: 5 x 15
* Standing calf raise: 5 x 15
Abdominals
* Lying leg raise: 5 x 15 to 25
* Hanging leg raise: 5 x 15 to 25
* Hanging knee–in: 5 x 15 to 25
* Bent knee situps: 5 x 15 to 25
* Twisting situps: 5 x 15 to 25
* Cross ankle crunches: 5 x 15 to 25
Shoulders
* Wide grip rows: 5 x 8
* 45° lateral raise: 5 x 8
* Kneeling cable raise: 5 x 8
* Bent over cable raise: 5 x 8
* Lateral raise: 5 x 8
* Cable lateral raise: 5 x 8
Biceps
* Incline dumbbell curl: 5 x 8
* EZ Bar curls: 5 x 8
* Cable short range seated curls: 5 x 10
Triceps
* Parallel bar dips: 5 x 8
* Bent over triceps kickbacks: 5 x 8
* Triceps rope pulls: 5 x 8
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Lat's McGree: Not to kiss your ring or anything but this is great stuff. A guy loaned me a stack of the original IronMan magazines (when it was a great mag) when I was in my teens (1988 or so). Lots of articles by and about Gironda. Pullover & press, "V" bar dips, Sissy Squats, chin to pec's, etc. And let's not forget the 20 rep breathing squat for increasing muscle mass. Wish some of the present younger guy's would experiment with some of those ideas rather than doing most of those self defeating 5 and 6 day splits. Preformance of the exercise for pure BB'ers, not the weight used. Who really cares if a BB'er can bench 400 for reps if his arms are only 16 1/2 and his pec's look like crap?
I wonder if somewhere in heaven (or Hell) Gironda and Metzer are having debates about their training ideas. Given both their personalities, that would be very interesting indeed. Storm warning ahead.
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I read some of this thread and wondered why Vince Gironda didn't continue to be held in high regard for his training knowledge. Well, two things happened that changed bodybuilding and what people believed. The first was the arrival of Arthur Jones on the bodybuilding scene. His articles and ads dominated Ironman and just about everyone had to read what Arthur preached. Clearly he had something new to offer and it was the opposite of 10 X 10 or even 8 X 8. The Nautilus machines were also something new and Arthur argued that training times could be reduced to perhaps a third of what people were doing in those days. He predicted that bodybuilders would cut years off the time it took to reach the highest level in competition. Well, that didn't turn out to be true. Most of us questioned our methods and many of us reduced what we were doing. Arthur outshone everyone else who was knowledgeable and pretty much overturned hypertrophy theory. The proof is in the pudding and there never was any pudding. Clearly, we would all have been wiser to stick with what Vince Gironda wrote.
The other factor that changed bodybuilding forever was the admission that they took anabolic drugs. If drugs were what caused the most growth then we didn't need gurus and that impacted on people like Gironda. Anyone who was around in the 1960s knew that Vince's Gym singlets were popular everywhere and were one of the first to be available. Lots of people sent away for Gironda courses.
I recall one year that there was a flood after a storm that inundated Vince's Gym. There was a photo of him sweeping the mud out of the gym. It wasn't long after that the gym closed. Who would have believed that could or would happen? Arthur Jones was so successful with his Nautilus machines that they started a gym boom that saw lots of clubs opening everywhere. Gyms had to have the latest equipment otherwise customers would go elsewhere. I suppose the gym that Vince had was not able to keep up with the trends. Goodness knows it cost a lot of money to buy treadmills, etc. His gym wasn't really big enough to put in more equipment. He did install a women's section upstairs but it wasn't well equipped. All the knowledge in the world won't help if people perceive a gym is old and not well equipped.
We can read this thread and other words of Gironda and acknowledge the guy knew heaps about training. I have no doubt he would have gotten better results in his students with his methods than Mike or Ray could with theirs. I swear Arthur and Mike influenced me so that I didn't do enough sets with a maximum resistance. Instead of 1 or 2 max sets you need at least 5. So Gironda's 8 X 8 is on the money. Also, Gironda had heaps of ideas and strategies to keep muscles growing. We should all realize that Larry Scott had an ordinary frame but built an amazing body to beat everyone in his day. That is a heck of an achievement. Both Larry and Vince Gironda are masters of exercise form and methods.
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vince's book the wild physique is a good read...his diet advice can be questioned as being a bit unhealthy...but compared to the beef it book by bob kennedy the wild physique beats it by light years.
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I am sure this will surprise noone, but my trainer from when I was a kid said that he and friends went to visit Gironda at his gym, have a workout and ask advice.
Gironda looked at them with the greatest of disdain, and unceromoniously tossed a bunch of pamphlets at them.
I'd say, from what I have read, they got off easy!
Mike
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A kindly bump...
For a truly deserving thread.
8)
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What do you recommend when one muscle group grows slower than the rest of the body? Everything is growing but my arms.
Should I do more sets and/or exercises for this area or more forced reps and harder work or should I train the area more often or a combination of all three?
You may have to change exercises to find more workable movements.
Experiment with Tri-sets. That is performing 3 biceps exercises, one after the other. Then repeat the whole cycle again. Perform 4 cycles of three different biceps exercises and 4 cycles of three different triceps exercises.
Work to increase work load slightly each workout and gradually decrease rest time between exercises to zero.
Growth comes from a training frequency per muscle group of 2 or 3 times a week. No less no more.
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Drop sets and down-the-racks are ideal for blasting the deltoids. Down-the-racks were a favorite method of Larry Scott, probably the best small-boned bodybuilder to ever develop delts as massive as those of the big boys.
Deltoid exercises are particularly suited to down-the-rack training. To perform down-the-rack sets, simply warm up for a few sets and then go to the heaviest bells you can get six reps with. As soon as you fail, be it five, six or seven reps, immediately return those bells to the rack and grab the next lighter pair, which will probably be five pounds lighter.
Don't take any rest. Do as many reps as you can and then return those dumbells to the rack, again immediately grabbing the next lighter bells and so on.
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This controversial subject has caused great confusion in the mind of the general public. A few of the following facts should help to clear up this high fog index.
Cholesterol belongs to the classification of fats known as sterols and is chemically not a fat. But, it is found in all fats and oils. I'd like to point out that the body synthesizes and metabolizes daily a far greater amount than is consumed in the diet.
It has never been established that natural fats raise cholesterol. In fact, certain types of fats cause a drop in cholesterol levels in the blood. The body manufactures 15 grams of cholesterol per day. Thus, the more cholesterol you eat, the less the body normally manufactures. Without cholesterol, the slightest cut would cause you to bleed to deatch so it is important in the proper amounts.
All foods that contain cholesterol also contain lecithin which is a fat emulsifier. The best fat emulsifier known, however, is EXERCISE. I feel that cholesterol is primarily a product of tensions, anxiety and stress. Further, modern man no longer can revert to Fight or Flight in his daily life as did our ancestors. Yet this was the only real way for nature to emulsify cholesterol ... today we must train and exercise!
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Thank you.
This is all great stuff.
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Drop sets and down-the-racks are ideal for blasting the deltoids. Down-the-racks were a favorite method of Larry Scott, probably the best small-boned bodybuilder to ever develop delts as massive as those of the big boys.
Deltoid exercises are particularly suited to down-the-rack training. To perform down-the-rack sets, simply warm up for a few sets and then go to the heaviest bells you can get six reps with. As soon as you fail, be it five, six or seven reps, immediately return those bells to the rack and grab the next lighter pair, which will probably be five pounds lighter.
Don't take any rest. Do as many reps as you can and then return those dumbells to the rack, again immediately grabbing the next lighter bells and so on.
does he suggest to do only one set of drop sets or multiple?
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does he suggest to do only one set of drop sets or multiple?
I know for the rack work he only recommended one "set" maybe done two or three times a week for maybe 3 or 4 weeks.
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Lats,
I know Vince mentioned using DB laterals or shoulder width upright rowing - laterals are tilted down (front bell - elbows bent).
Do you have any other info about what he advocated for shoulder development?
Thanks.
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Lats,
I know Vince mentioned using DB laterals or shoulder width upright rowing - laterals are tilted down (front bell - elbows bent).
Do you have any other info about what he advocated for shoulder development?
Thanks.
Vince Gironda High Pull
One of Vinces favorite exercises for the side delt was a variation on the upright row. He called them "high pulls."
- Overhand grip on the bar about shoulder-width apart.
- At the "low position" the bar rests on the front of the thighs and the elbows are slightly bent.
- With the elbows pulled high the bar is raised to about the top of your head.
- At the raised position, the bar should be about 12 inches (30 cm) in front of the head.
Seated Bradford Press
Vince Gironda had a different name for these...but they were named after a lifter by the name of Jim Bradford. Take weight you normally use for overhead pressing and reduce by about 10-20 percent. Wider than shoulder width grip...let comfort be your guide. Start at normal clean position at collarbones, then drop just slightly before pressing. Press weight up till you just reach the top of the head, then move the weight over your head and lower behind your head till you contact the base of the neck. Then return to the front in the same way...it is a continuous back and forth movement. You should just clear the top of the head, so your arms never really exceed a 90 degree angle. Fight the tendency to "duck" the head to one side or the other to make the movement easier. One forward/back trip equals one rep. Mostly front and side deltoid, with some rear delt stabilization.
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Thanks, brother.
I really hope you don’t mind all these questions.
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Thanks, brother.
I really hope you don’t mind all these questions.
Ask away, I'm always willing to help out.
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Here’s one about nutrition:
I know Vince had his guys taking a good many liver tablets, Blair protein, and (I believe) some kind of amino tablets that Blair also made.
Do you have any info on the nutritional end of things?
Specifically, I am curious about the amounts and timing of the shakes & liver, as well as exactly what was in Blair’s amino tabs.
I don’t know if any of those details were ever made public knowledge, and I wouldn’t ask or expect you to dig for it.
I just thought if you knew anything offhand.
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Here’s one about nutrition:
I know Vince had his guys taking a good many liver tablets, Blair protein, and (I believe) some kind of amino tablets that Blair also made.
Do you have any info on the nutritional end of things?
Specifically, I am curious about the amounts and timing of the shakes & liver, as well as exactly what was in Blair’s amino tabs.
I don’t know if any of those details were ever made public knowledge, and I wouldn’t ask or expect you to dig for it.
I just thought if you knew anything offhand.
The General protocol with the Liver tabs was 24 a day, You would take 8 liver tabs up to 3 times a day. With certain specialization programs Vince would sometimes have guys take 2 liver tabs every hour for a few weeks at a time.
With the shakes Vince didn't really want guys doing more than 2-3 a day. He believed the majority of one's food intake should be whole foods.
Vince preferred amino tabs that were derived from milk and egg sources. Pre contest he recommended free form aminos.
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THANK YOU!
I ordinarily do a great deal of my own research, but I couldn’t turn up anything about the supplement end of things.
I searched under Rheo Blair, Gironda, Scott, etc.
This answers a lot of questions I had.
Thanks, again.
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Ask away, I'm always willing to help out.
ordinarily, you are quite not the nice guy
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ordinarily, you are quite not the nice guy
I will admit to making things a little too personal with people on the G&O but I will always offer help. G&O is for entertainment, if you would have seen that board years back you would be calling me a nice guy.
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This is not geared at lax/MJ, but most of the people who complain about how juvenile GB has gotten seldom leave the confines of the G&O.
Or else they spend all their time on the alphabet boards. :-\
The majority of threads on the majority of boards still have serious and intelligent discussions.
Threads such as this one are GOLDEN, and they are around if you take the time to look.
I forget which page of the History board this topic was on when I found it.
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Lats,
One very knowledgeable poster on here informed me that Vince’s guys lived on the steak & eggs meals, canned tuna in oil, and of course the Blair powder & liver tabs.
Do you have any additional insight regarding specific aspects of their diet?
Thank you.
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Steak and Eggs was pretty much the precontest diet, for six weeks you would have steak and eggs 3 times a day and in between those meals you would have your liver tabs and free form aminos.
It's also important to remember Vince always recommended you mix your protein powders with heavy whipping cream.
One of Vince's "weight gaining" recommendations was to mix protein powder, heavy cream, and ginger ale as a make shift weight gaining powder.
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Thanks, man.
I reckon the cream is partly what made Blair’s powder taste so good.
I understand that a lot of guys were doing that at the time, and Scott claims he grew like a weed once he started.
Did Vince advise straight cream, or a mix of half cream & half whole milk?
I’ve also read/heard that many of those Venice Beach guys did fairly little in the way of cardio, and that the diet above was responsible for most of the “cutting.”
Thanks again, brother.
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Thanks, man.
I reckon the cream is partly what made Blair’s powder taste so good.
I understand that a lot of guys were doing that at the time, and Scott claims he grew like a weed once he started.
Did Vince advise straight cream, or a mix of half cream & half whole milk?
I’ve also read/heard that many of those Venice Beach guys did fairly little in the way of cardio, and that the diet above was responsible for most of the “cutting.”
Thanks again, brother.
The cream does make the shakes taste way better. I always made great gains incorporating it into my shakes. you can also use half and half if you desire.
Most of the guys did no cardio unless it was of the extracirricular variety like riding bikes, etc. Most guys only trained abs precontest also. Vince advocated only training abs 6 weeks a year for most.
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I will admit to making things a little too personal with people on the G&O but I will always offer help. G&O is for entertainment, if you would have seen that board years back you would be calling me a nice guy.
yes
it doesn't really matter
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It's also important to remember Vince always recommended you mix your protein powders with heavy whipping cream.
One of Vince's "weight gaining" recommendations was to mix protein powder, heavy cream, and ginger ale as a make shift weight gaining powder.
Blair figured out that adding egg protein to the milk yielded the correct amino profile – closest to human mother’s milk.
I understand that Vince later made his own version of the blend.
Were they the same in terms of ingredients & effectiveness?
Do you know the ratios of milk : egg used?
There are companies like Cytosport & BSN that market protein powders as mimicking human breast milk (Muscle Milk & Syntha 6). Universal even makes an egg & milk powder aimed at “old school” bb’ers.
Based on your knowledge and opinion, do any of today’s products come close to the Blair (/Gironda) formula?
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Blair figured out that adding egg protein to the milk yielded the correct amino profile – closest to human mother’s milk.
I understand that Vince later made his own version of the blend.
Were they the same in terms of ingredients & effectiveness?
Do you know the ratios of milk : egg used?
There are companies like Cytosport & BSN that market protein powders as mimicking human breast milk (Muscle Milk & Syntha 6). Universal even makes an egg & milk powder aimed at “old school” bb’ers.
Based on your knowledge and opinion, do any of today’s products come close to the Blair (/Gironda) formula?
As far as the ingrediants Vince's protein was pretty much exactly the same as Blairs. Vince's Milk and Egg is actually still manufactured by NSP nutrition. I can actually give you the link to their site but I don't want to just post it on the board and get accused of spamming their products, send me a PM if you'd like it.
As far as the quality of today's proteins I can vouche for NSP, Universal, and Beverly. Bev's UMP is a great formula and it mixes better than the Universal or NSP but I don't think it's as cost effective as the others.
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I can actually give you the link to their site but I don't want to just post it on the board and get accused of spamming their products, send me a PM if you'd like it.
I know what you mean.
Is that the Ron Kosloff site?
I forgot all about that.
I stumbled across it a while back (before I took a serious interest in the 1960’s Venice Beach era).
So you’ve used the above 3 powders, and they’re pretty good, huh?
I still have a good bit in my current supply, but I’m always looking for something that might be better.
I may give one or two of these a go when it’s time to order again.
Thanks.
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I know what you mean.
Is that the Ron Kosloff site?
I forgot all about that.
I stumbled across it a while back (before I took a serious interest in the 1960’s Venice Beach era).
So you’ve used the above 3 powders, and they’re pretty good, huh?
I still have a good bit in my current supply, but I’m always looking for something that might be better.
I may give one or two of these a go when it’s time to order again.
Thanks.
No problem. When I am in serious mode I usually do one of the protein powders with the Universal Liver tabs.
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On your advice, I purchased some Uni-Liver.
GREAT!
They’re monsters, but now I don’t have to wait around guzzling 3X as many pills – when you only have less than a 1½ minute window of opportunity, every second counts!
I’m on a tub of ON’s Pro-Complex right now (I’ve always sworn by Costello products). Tried mixing it with about 10 oz. of whole milk & 10 oz. of heavy cream, sipping it a little at a time spaced out over several hours – MAJOR gastric upset.
Milk by itself / cream by itself / milk & cream together / the powder by itself – don’t bother me at all, but when I mix the 3 together…poof! I spend the next few hours taking multiple magical rides on the porcelain pony.
I even tried a good digestive enzyme with protease, lactase, and amylase – my colon just laughed at me.
I may try just mixing the powder with straight cream once and see what happens. I know Vince recommended consuming fat along with protein for absorption purposes.
Do you incorporate a lot of Vince's principles?
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On your advice, I purchased some Uni-Liver.
GREAT!
They’re monsters, but now I don’t have to wait around guzzling 3X as many pills – when you only have less than a 1½ minute window of opportunity, every second counts!
I’m on a tub of ON’s Pro-Complex right now (I’ve always sworn by Costello products). Tried mixing it with about 10 oz. of whole milk & 10 oz. of heavy cream, sipping it a little at a time spaced out over several hours – MAJOR gastric upset.
Milk by itself / cream by itself / milk & cream together / the powder by itself – don’t bother me at all, but when I mix the 3 together…poof! I spend the next few hours taking multiple magical rides on the porcelain pony.
I even tried a good digestive enzyme with protease, lactase, and amylase – my colon just laughed at me.
I may try just mixing the powder with straight cream once and see what happens. I know Vince recommended consuming fat along with protein for absorption purposes.
Do you incorporate a lot of Vince's principles?
I try to do the best I can with Vince's principles. Usually I stick to the cream with the shakes. I will actually add almond or peanut butter to the mix now and again too. Milk and cream is too much for me as well.
Vince's methods have proven to be very benefecial to me and my friends over the years. Before I learned Vince's methods my first few years of training I was burning out left and right.
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Some of Vince's best links (as well as the better alternatives including those of Arthur Jones, Draper, Pearl and Scott) are a permanent sticky. Ron Kosloff's a nice guy and the last word currently on Vince's training. Contact him for any info on Vince's training and nutritional info.
Vince and Arthur Jones apparently met some time in the late 60s/early 70s - would love to have been a fly on the wall for that one.. :D
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=112943.0
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After going through some of the links Pumpster posted, I would say this seems to be my favorite:
http://ironguru.com/ (http://ironguru.com/)
It contains a lot of training & nutrition info, pictures, stories, and articles Vince had written for various magazines.
In fact, this site is so informative that I haven’t even had to pester the great LatsMcGee in almost a month!
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was vince pro or anti steroid.
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He didn’t like the artificially enhanced look they created, and I think he saw their use as an easy way out.
From much of what’s been written about it, the advent of “mainstream” steroid use necessitated less strictness insofar as training & nutrition.
Not so ironic then, some have mentioned that - around that same time - the seemingly "magical" protocols of guys like Blair & Vince lost a great deal of their demand with the BB public.
Vince’s business also supposedly took a sharp blow when Jones’ machines became popular and commonplace. That fame placed Jones on the kind of pedestal on which many held Gironda, and Jones’ practices – which drastically differed from Vince’s – sort of pushed Vince to the backseat.
Apparently, Vince’s equipment & ideas had become stale – not useless, but stale.
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He didn’t like the artificially enhanced look they created, and I think he saw their use as an easy way out.
From much of what’s been written about it, the advent of “mainstream” steroid use necessitated less strictness insofar as training & nutrition.
Not so ironic then, some have mentioned that - around that same time - the seemingly "magical" protocols of guys like Blair & Vince lost a great deal of their demand with the BB public.
Vince’s business also supposedly took a sharp blow when Jones’ machines became popular and commonplace. That fame placed Jones on the kind of pedestal on which many held Gironda, and Jones’ practices – which drastically differed from Vince’s – sort of pushed Vince to the backseat.
Apparently, Vince’s equipment & ideas had become stale – not useless, but stale.
thanx,he seemed really smart and eccentric at the same time,and he was ripped as a bber.brought a new look to the bbing game,like u said drugs enhanced the realm of changing the body while cutting training and eating protocals with bigger results lesser effort,totally against his preachings.
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Vince’s business also supposedly took a sharp blow when Jones’ machines became popular and commonplace. That fame placed Jones on the kind of pedestal on which many held Gironda, and Jones’ practices – which drastically differed from Vince’s – sort of pushed Vince to the backseat.
Apparently, Vince’s equipment & ideas had become stale – not useless, but stale.
Interesting but is this fact or conjecture? I would say Vince's business suffered far more from an overall waves of growth of the commericalized mass fitness/gym/personal trainer culture and accompanying advertizing and word of mouth begining in the 70s, not from Jones in particular.
In terms of the equipment, i'd still take Gironda's equipment that will always be usable (preacher bench in almost every gym now for example), which Larry Scott say he wishes he could've bought later when it was auctioned off for something like 10K.
Gironda's theories and equipment never got old and stale, but he never marketed/promoted himself much and there were all sorts of newer places around that did and that were sleek and modern.
Here's Scott from June of this summer at age 70, working out on his own equipment that was inspired from Vince's Gym.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1597100
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Interesting but is this fact or conjecture? I would say Vince's business suffered far more from an overall waves of growth of the commericalized mass fitness/gym/personal trainer culture and accompanying advertizing and word of mouth begining in the 70s, not from Jones in particular.
In terms of the equipment, i'd still take Gironda's equipment that will always be usable (preacher bench in almost every gym now for example), which Larry Scott say he wishes he could've bought later when it was auctioned off for something like 10K.
Gironda's theories and equipment never got old and stale, but he never marketed/promoted himself much and there were all sorts of newer places around that did and that were sleek and modern.
Here's Scott from June of this summer at age 70, working out on his own equipment that was inspired from Vince's Gym.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1597100
Yeah Vince was never much of a salesman to begin with, he always preferred to let results do the talking for him. Vince thought that if you couldn't tell his methods were working than you were an idiot.
Don't forget the tricep bench too, that's an awesome piece of equipment. Roman Chair squats is a great one too.
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was vince pro or anti steroid.
Like most from that era Vince was a hypocrite..
Bashed gear saying it would kill you etc (how naive) then would turn around claiming all the guys at his gym were natural like scott , franco,arnold the list goes on..
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Like most from that era Vince was a hypocrite..
Bashed gear saying it would kill you etc (how naive) then would turn around claiming all the guys at his gym were natural like scott , franco,arnold the list goes on..
"Plausible Deniability."
;)
I don’t know about the others, but it’s been said that Scott had built “most” of his physique & had won quite a few trophies before touching the dianabol.
Only Scott knows for sure what he took & when.
I wouldn't be surprised either way.
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Like most from that era Vince was a hypocrite..
Bashed gear saying it would kill you etc (how naive) then would turn around claiming all the guys at his gym were natural like scott , franco,arnold the list goes on..
Whoa hold the phone Will, Vince never claimed any of those guys were natties, he just said he didn't allow it "in his gym and on his time." Vince wasn't a naive man, he has some literature out there about what he thought the guys in him gym were taking when they were out of the gym. In other words he just wouldn't sell or pimp steroid advice to guys.
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Whoa hold the phone Will, Vince never claimed any of those guys were natties, he just said he didn't allow it "in his gym and on his time." Vince wasn't a naive man, he has some literature out there about what he thought the guys in him gym were taking when they were out of the gym. In other words he just wouldn't sell or pimp steroid advice to guys.
He did claim his students were natural and in the same breath claimed arnold,franco,scott,makkaway,steve davis etc were his students. , In the wild physique the book is loaded with steroid induced bodys yet Vince rubbishs gear and claims it gives you liver cancer etc..Vince knew those guys were loaded , if he was a man of his word none of those guys would of stepped foot in his gym..
The great dinabol conversation that talk place between howarth,ross and the champs of the day took place in vinces gym..
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To add to LatsMcGee's already impressive collection of Gironda-related articles, here are some more - most of them taken from www.ironguru.com:
Eggs, Your Diet And Your Health:
Mid-morning fatigue may result from an insufficient breakfast of animal protein. It's desirable that at least one third of the daily protein intake be derived from animal sources such as eggs. Some high quality protein, as from eggs and other animal products, should be included in every diet. The tissues must have all of the essential amino acids for cell synthesis. Eggs provide these!
(IronMan Magazine July 1976 Vol. 35 No. 5)
Maintaining Positive Nitrogen Balance:
Eggs (raw) blended in lite cream beaten with a fork not a mechanical blender will give you an anabolic effect and will put you in positive nitrogen balance. But please be aware of the fact that abdominal work must be held down to a minimum as it produces a type of central nervous system shock and negates tissue growth. Do not work your abdominals more than two times per week. You can get good abs in 6 weeks if you work them right! I did.
(Musclemag Magazine March 1979 Vol. 4 Issue 1)
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Vince Gironda Eggs Diet:
2-3 dozen eggs a day is a lot, especially if your current diet is moderate in protein and fat. Take it easy at first, and remember you will not be taking in any carbohydrates (assuming you are doing the fat loss diet) except once every 3-4 days in the form of a carb only meal.
Cooking and eating 2-3 dozen cooked eggs a day is difficult, but I found shakes to be the most convenient way of getting my fill.
One shake consists of:
Cream (half and half)
12 eggs (raw)
Water and Ice
Pure protein powder (quality whey/or milk and egg) - the powder is mainly for flavor.
Drink this throughout your morning as breakfast.
Adjust the volume to your preference (ie. taste and consistency).
And adjust the egg content to what you can handle (ex. 6 eggs x 3 x day = 1.5 doz. = half way to 3 doz.)
Repeat at noon and evening. Or make several shakes in the morning and bring them with you to work (so long as you have a fridge for storage).
If you want to eat, eat some eggs or meat. But you'll probably find your appetite calms down, and your cravings will subside.
Nick told me my diet was...
eggs: unlimited
meat: unlimited
..."thats it, any questions?"
remember to take digestive enzymes, an EFA blend, and a quality multi-vit (good b complex)
Vince liked liver tabs, and glandulars as well.
If you are not trying to lose bodyfat then just keep your carb intake moderate. By moderate I mean have some toast with your eggs, or enjoy a small veggie side dish with your steak. What I don't mean is inhaling worthless cereals, or other processed starchy foods with every meal. The kind of carbs you ingest doesn't matter...it all becomes a form a glucose (sugar) and will cause an insulin response (usually leading to bodyfat deposits). The exception would be fiberous food products, as your body cannot digest them.
Mothers Milk For Health:
Mother's milk has the highest biological value of all the proteins (95 per cent). Next comes eggs at 94 per cent; cows milk follows with 90 per cent. milk and egg protein will build muscle faster than any other known food.
(IronMan Magazine Nov 1973 Vol. 33 No. 1)
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How To Use And Prepare Protein For Muscle Size:
Never use a blender to mix protein. Blenders emulsify the fat in milk to a suspension too small for digestion. (Homogenized Milk.) Never use milk for a protein mix. Milk has too much carbohydrate. Protein and carbohydrate digest in different mediums. Protein (acid medium), Carbohydrates (alkaline medium). You may mix powdered protein and eggs in heavy whipping cream. Whipping cream is zero carbohydrate. Mix with a spoon to a consistency of pudding and eat with a spoon. Cow's milk or cream has five times the lysine found in human milk. Calves double body weight every 30 days. Human babies double bodyweight every six months. Before bodybuilders discovered supplements, milk was the principal growth food. Cow's milk, or cream, also contain the anterior pituitary hormone which is secreted by the cow when lactating to accelerate growth of the calf. Bodybuilders consuming cow's milk (or cream) can also benefit from this growth hormone. This food mixture should be eaten with two or three H.C.L. (hydrochloric acid) tablets for metabolic, digestive support. All units of protein are measured with eggs as No. 1 protein, milk is 2nd, and meat is 3rd. Enough for the No. 1 growth protein mix.
The next protein to discuss is: Steak and Eggs - the strong man's favorite meal. The amount of meat and the number of eggs used are a matter of body weight, height and severity of training. This meal is the favorite of bodybuilders interested in keeping up their size and burning all possible fat from their bodies. Both of these meals are excellent blood sugar elevators and both sustain blood sugar levels for a 6-hour period. Training on steak and eggs, you will find, does not require more than two meals a day (morning and night). I am not listing grams of protein in these meals because I do not think it is necessary. Force feeding of excessive amounts of protein can and will put you in Negative Nitrogen Balance - and can cause uric acid retention and kidney, bladder and liver problems. If you are not working out hard enough you will find you lose your taste for protein and you will naturally and normally cut back on quantity. When this happens a protein rest should be taken by eating steamed vegetables, raw vegetables and salads for 3-5 days, until you regain your taste for protein foods. You must remember that your individual needs are different from the next man's, so listen to your body rhythms and do not force food into a body that does not require it. Forget man's so-called logic and find your own metabolic needs.
A word to those who do not understand cholesterol: Exercise is the very best fat emulsifier known, because man still reacts to stress (which is the primary cause of cholesterol overproduction) as he did when in a primitive state. Cholesterol calls for action (Fight or Flight). Cholesterol prepares you in case of injury (stops bleeding if you are cut, or protects a rupture of veins). Also, a little known fact is that the body manufactures more cholesterol that you can possibly eat. The body reduces cholesterol output - or produces more - depending on how much of it you ingest. Fats and oils are fat emulsifiers themselves (lepotropics). So, who started the misconception that fats and oils cause unnatural cholesterol levels? As a matter of fact, if you study this problem you will find it is a substance known as tri-glyceride that is the culprit. Remember, nature is balance. Read Steffanson's book, "Not By Bread Alone." He lived with the Eskimos for 18 years on meat and fat only!
(IronMan Magazine March 1976 Vol. 35 No. 3)
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Do you guys avoid back squats and deadlifts like Vince recommended?
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Squats I do with feet parallel and just inside shoulder width. Most guys I’ve seen who squat regularly & have the “over-developed” waists & glutes Vince warned against are mostly power lifters who squat sumo-style.
With deads, I almost never pull from the floor.
I much prefer partials done inside the rack.
They allow you to properly tax all of those lower to upper back fibers without blasting & getting help from your legs & glutes.
Charles Glass has most of his clients follow this principle for the same reasons.
I also prefer them because they’re more forgiving on my sacrum/lumbar region, which has given me problems on & off for about 6 years now.
My back muscles are my best developed, which I attribute to genetics, but also exercise selection.
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Squats I do with feet parallel and just inside shoulder width. Most guys I’ve seen who squat regularly & have the “over-developed” waists & glutes Vince warned against are mostly power lifters who squat sumo-style.
With deads, I almost never pull from the floor.
I much prefer partials done inside the rack.
They allow you to properly tax all of those lower to upper back fibers without blasting & getting help from your legs & glutes.
Charles Glass has most of his clients follow this principle for the same reasons.
I also prefer them because they’re more forgiving on my sacrum/lumbar region, which has given me problems on & off for about 6 years now.
My back muscles are my best developed, which I attribute to genetics, but also exercise selection.
Thanks. My stance for squats is also quite narrow, but my reps are at 5 for all sets, trying to get strength up. My glutes are already as big as I want though, so I'm thinking I might switch to front squats with heels raised so that I can stay more upright.
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Try it then.
You'll probably be okay (or at least, better) with that form.
Also, you may consider stopping at parallel.
Ass to ankles is a lot harder, etc., but you also know that squats from that depth recruit a lot of glute fibers.
You can still build good leg size & strength by stopping at parallel.
Similar principle to partial deads for back; minus the leg/glute involvement.
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Hey Lats (or anyone else):
Have you or your boys ever used plant glandulars/sterols?
I’ve read where Vince had his guys taking those as well, but it seems like the liver tabs & powders always got the most glory.
Ron sells them on his site; as well Universal makes a version:
http://www.ironguru.com/sterol-11+-glandulars (http://www.ironguru.com/sterol-11+-glandulars)
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_uv002.htm (http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_uv002.htm)
Just wondering…
Thanks.
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Hey Lats (or anyone else):
Have you or your boys ever used plant glandulars/sterols?
I’ve read where Vince had his guys taking those as well, but it seems like the liver tabs & powders always got the most glory.
Ron sells them on his site; as well Universal makes a version:
http://www.ironguru.com/sterol-11+-glandulars (http://www.ironguru.com/sterol-11+-glandulars)
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_uv002.htm (http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_uv002.htm)
Just wondering…
Thanks.
I don't know about any real anabolic benefits to them other than when I take them my appetite seems to go through the roof. I will take them sometimes when I am trying to make gains for that reason. It's been a few years since I messed with them.
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Cool.
Thanks.
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Cool.
Thanks.
No problem, just out of curiousity what kind of training are you doing at the moment?
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No problem, just out of curiousity what kind of training are you doing at the moment?
Low frequency / high volume.
Each body part is trained directly 1x / week.
Combination of compound with some isolation work
Mostly free weights supplemented with select machines
Reps range from 6-15 on various exercises
60-90 sec. rest between sets
Focus on good form with only occasional cheat reps at the end of a
set / Most sets stop before failure – some right at.
Power Rack & I have become close friends – there may even be
something more there
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Interesting, ever do the short rest periods? I seem to get my best results with that. Especially on the body part splits.
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How short are you talking?
Under 1 min?
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How short are you talking?
Under 1 min?
30 to 45 seconds usually for me. Sometimes I will do the five deep breathes and right into the next set without dropping the weights also. It all depends on what I'm training for.
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I know that guys made fantastic gains doing the 20-rep breathing squats scheme.
JPM has done (and recommends) applying the same principle to other compound exercises as well.
My question:
During that deep breathing pause, do you keep any tension on the muscle, rack the weight, or hold it in lockout, etc?
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I know that guys made fantastic gains doing the 20-rep breathing squats scheme.
JPM has done (and recommends) applying the same principle to other compound exercises as well.
My question:
During that deep breathing pause, do you keep any tension on the muscle, rack the weight, or hold it in lockout, etc?
Yes, on DB curls I will not set the weight down but I will ease up on the tension a little bit by backing off a bit on the grip. I don't set the weights down though.
I really like to do 20 rep sets with the upright row, I get an evil burn in my shoulders from it.
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Okay, I'm gonna try it.
We'll use the uprights as an example:
How many sets do you typically do like that?
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Okay, I'm gonna try it.
We'll use the uprights as an example:
How many sets do you typically do like that?
If I do the rows for 20 reps I just do the one set with my 10 rep max, just like with the squats. Usually I am doing the 6x6 scheme though. I am forcing myself to stop doing 6x6 for a while though now, I go back to it too much.
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Good stuff.
Thanks, as always.
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Good stuff.
Thanks, as always.
Anytime.
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c. 1940's/50's footage of Vince:
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i read vince's book..his diet techniques seem to be outdated...but the training principles are top notch...i especially loved the gironda dip bar..in a V instead of parallel...only had one gym that had that...
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Vince seemed to be on the right track with the low carb/high healthy fat idea - long before Dr. Atkins came along.
All of your body’s steroid hormones – including the gonadotropic ones – are cholesterol derivatives, so it makes sense that healthy fat sources (fish & olive oil, egg yolks, etc.) have a positive influence on your own natural hormone levels.
Vince also knew that consuming fats WITH carbs was a recipe for fat storage.
But, some of his dietary principles became less important with the increasing popularity of anabolics use.
These days, even advancements in research and some OTC supplements also make the job easier.
But, many of today’s successful diet plans – particularly for the natural trainer – have a strong base in Vince’s protocol.
You’re also right about the v-bars being far superior to the parallel ones – at least for chest activation. If you’re fortunate enough to have parallel bars that are at least a bit wider apart, you can position your hands on the butt of the handles, angling your knuckles inwards enough to simulate the v-bar grip.
JPM taught me that.
So long as your elbows are flaring out to the sides, you can get the right feeling. Larry Scott described it as imagining you're pulling/squeezing your elbows in towards the body. That, along with the concave body arch should provide the desired contraction.
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I think it’s about time for a bump to this excellent thread, so, for Lats (or anyone else)…
In some of his articles, Vince mentioned using the heavy cream during the fat loss phase – in conjunction with extremely low carbs, of course.
I know his favorite pre-contest diet consisted of steak & eggs throughout the day.
We also know that dairy can make many folks hold a good bit of water.
At what point did Vince have his guys cut out the heavy dairy?
Or, am I incorrect in presuming he did?
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I think it’s about time for a bump to this excellent thread, so, for Lats (or anyone else)…
In some of his articles, Vince mentioned using the heavy cream during the fat loss phase – in conjunction with extremely low carbs, of course.
I know his favorite pre-contest diet consisted of steak & eggs throughout the day.
We also know that dairy can make many folks hold a good bit of water.
At what point did Vince have his guys cut out the heavy dairy?
Or, am I incorrect in presuming he did?
I know with some guys Vince wouldn't cut the heavy cream at all during prep. Some guys suicided there last few weeks with Vince and lived on lver tabs alone, Makkaway did that for several shows. I don't think Vince would ever advocate that.
I know that Don Howarth pretty much much never cut his fats out.
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Thanks.
I’m an extremely firm believer in the superiority of fats over carbs.
I grew a good bit in a short time over the winter with the cream (and other principles discussed in this thread).
However, I know the dairy “puffed” me a bit with fluid retention – I’m just one of those people.
Also, my diet wasn’t as clean as it should have been (carb-wise), so I did gain a little fat.
But I’m certainly beginning to understand the value and legitimacy of what these guys did back then.
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Lats:
Poliquin has mentioned that Vince used a version of the “10-sets” principle - similar to GVT, but a little different.
Are you familiar with Vince’s work regarding this protocol?
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Lats:
Poliquin has mentioned that Vince used a version of the “10-sets” principle - similar to GVT, but a little different.
Are you familiar with Vince’s work regarding this protocol?
Vince's version of the protocal was a bit different. Vince advocated using 10 of 10 for one muscle group only for 3 or 4 weeks twice a week. During that period he recommend 3x8 for other muscle groups. He used 10 of 10 to bring up lagging muscle groups. Vince was adament that if you upped the volume in a lagging area you needed to compensate by decreasing volume in the non problem areas for proper recovery and balance.
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Interesting.
Thanks!
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Manual for Gym Instructions
Posted Monday, October 23, 2006
Filed under Training
(IronMan Magazine Jan 1977 Vol. 36 No. 2)
1. Develop illusion of width across chest (parallel dips, dip slide or ped push-ups.)
2. Increase chest measurement by accentuating taper (Terris Major) with short pull (chest concave, elbows wide) not lats
3. Bring up arm measurement with peak bicep (Spider bench) double contraction
4. Pull out middle tricep for corresponding line of measurement on tape, with pulley push down (elbows firm to body and thumbs on top of bar.)
5. Bring out dramatic illusion of width by using DB laterals or shoulder width upright rowing. Laterals are tilted down (front bell - elbows bent.)
6. Give no abdominal work of any kind or you will stop all muscle growth.
7. Give forearm work seated on bench (straddle and actually lay bar on bench each rep (singles).) Thumbs must be under bar. Forearms and wrists are on top of thighs with wrists hanging over knees.
8. Reverse BB curls are done with collar width grip and bar rubs body on the curl and down. Hacks are done in Frog Squat position, heels together and back under hips. Toes are wide - 12 inches.
9. Calves are always done with shoes 4" wide and come up on big toe drawing heel together at top of movement (knees are unlocked).
Nutrition will not be discussed because nutrition is highly individualized.
Do not deviate from these exercises because anything other than this routine will not cause super fast visual results.
Is this the best beginner workout summary? Wtf is spider bench? hack squat on machine or barbel?
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Is this the best beginner workout summary? Wtf is spider bench? hack squat on machine or barbel?
hacks can be done on a machine or with a barbell.
to make a spider bench all you really have to do is take the seat out of your gyms current preacher curl apparatus and do your curls from the other side of the bench.
Hope this helps.
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to make a spider bench all you really have to do is take the seat out of your gyms current preacher curl apparatus and do your curls from the other side of the bench.
Hope this helps.
^^ Excellent advice.
Larry Scott metioned & demonstrated doing just that in some of his seminars, as well, quite a few others have used the preacher bench in that manner.
You can also lay prone on an inclined bench and curl from that position, which mimics Larry's "spider-curl" bench minus the elbow rests.
There are also other variations that will accomplish similar effects.
The principle idea is to get those elbows away from your sides.
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Bump for good info, not the usual outright lies from the Weider camp.
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Bump for good info, not the usual outright lies from the Weider camp.
Yes, this thread deserves to be bumped more often than it is.
Lats did one hell of a job here!
8)
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Thanks guys, I think it's my civic duty to share this kind of stuff with people. Still way too many in the dark about this stuff these days.
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got a beginner workout summmary?
http://ironguru.com/chest/ (http://ironguru.com/chest/) also hands in or normal for gironda dips? this diagram si unclear since 2 guy in pics has hands in while drawing is hands normal.
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Iron Guru is a good site.
For hand positioning, refer to the photographs; not the drawings.
Everything else appears to be fairly accurate.
The hardest part of this style of dip is finding the classic v-bars.
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Larry Scotts spider bench.
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Larry Scott seminar,some great explanations of how he did various exercises in the early parts.All the other parts are down the right side.
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Larry Scott seminar,some great explanations of how he did various exercises in the early parts.All the other parts are down the right side.
Larry always sounded like a stand up guy. But, at some point, people started to believe that the training made the modern bodybuilder, instead of the drugs. I always thought that Larry would be the one to spill the beans about the drugs. I guess Weider's still paying his bills.
I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but a lot of people are tired of hearing the same old thing: My "magic" routine will slap POUNDS of muscle on YOU!
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Don't forget, too, that Larry sells his own supplement line.
I also remember that, back in the 80's, he was pimping his Bio-Phase training system.
That's not a slam against him, but rather to suggest why he may not come clean about his drug use.
I also think that a lot of guys may just be too proud to admit it - especially ones from that time period.
Freddy Ortiz danced around the question of his own drug use during an interview with David Robson.
Robson asked him twice, and Freddy never gave a direct answer either way.
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Don't forget, too, that Larry sells his own supplement line.
I also remember that, back in the 80's, he was pimping his Bio-Phase training system.
That's not a slam against him, but rather to suggest why he may not come clean about his drug use.
I also think that a lot of guys may just be too proud to admit it - especially ones from that time period.
Freddy Ortiz danced around the question of his own drug use during an interview with David Robson.
Robson asked him twice, and Freddy never gave a direct answer either way.
QFT.
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Where I use to workout at, one of the owners made a well designed "V" bar from two 2X6's. He made another one, later on, with a 6" gate hinge at the ends. Could adjust it to what ever position you wanted, wide or narrow. Adjustable stands were holding up the ends. So, fairly easy to make a "V" bar for home gym use.
Both hand positions are OK. Depends on what influence you want on the pecs, delts, triceps, etc. There is also the hand position of having the knuckles facing forward. That worked well with the one made of 2X6 boards. We used big folded dish towels at the ends to save our palms.
That wide, knuckles in dip is not meant for everyone. Puts a lot of excess pressure on the wrist, elbows and shoulder joints. Would not advice using any serious weight while doing it. But it will target the inner pecs, and give a stretch, like nothing else. The tension is on through the whole movement.
Gironda has some interesting ways of using DB fly's, for the chest, also. Also doing BB benches to the neck. Which is an exercise that should always have a serious spotter standing by. Though not in favor of the BP it's self, he did suggest that the legs be drawn up and the ankles crossed. Or at lease have the feet resting on the bench. Which makes a lot of sense if the chest is to be worked the correct way. The man was truly a head of his time. Good Luck.
Just to note: I have seen former world class BB'er seem to shrink like Scott has. Don't think it's just advancing old age. Can see by his narrow frame/shoulders, the task he had to overcome with what nature gave him. What a masterful job he did do in his prime years. His delt development, tie-in and unreal arms/forearms were classic than ad even now.
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Where I use to workout at, one of the owners made a well designed "V" bar from two 2X6's. He made another one, later on, with a 6" gate hinge at the ends. Could adjust it to what ever position you wanted, wide or narrow. Adjustable stands were holding up the ends. So, fairly easy to make a "V" bar for home gym use.
Both hand positions are OK. Depends on what influence you want on the pecs, delts, triceps, etc. There is also the hand position of having the knuckles facing forward. That worked well with the one made of 2X6 boards. We used big folded dish towels at the ends to save our palms.
That wide, knuckles in dip is not meant for everyone. Puts a lot of excess pressure on the wrist, elbows and shoulder joints. Would not advice using any serious weight while doing it. But it will target the inner pecs, and give a stretch, like nothing else. The tension is on through the whole movement.
Gironda has some interesting ways of using DB fly's, for the chest, also. Also doing BB benches to the neck. Which is an exercise that should always have a serious spotter standing by. Though not in favor of the BP it's self, he did suggest that the legs be drawn up and the ankles crossed. Or at lease have the feet resting on the bench. Which makes a lot of sense if the chest is to be worked the correct way. The man was truly a head of his time. Good Luck.
A decent alternative is to get a set of push up stands, and use them with the knuckles turned in. Not quite the same, but hey, sometimes ya gotta adapt :D
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A mon brings some interesting thought.
We, and others, had used transmission, auto/truck jacks and conveyor stands. All are adjustable for height and with the 3 legs (usually) at the bottom. But still will require learning a little balance at first.
Saw horses can make excellent dipping devices. Even have used kitchen counter tops, where they form a 90 degree angle ("V" shape).The back of chairs..not so much.Good Luck.
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A mon brings some interesting thought.
We, and others, had used transmission, auto/truck jacks and conveyor stands. All are adjustable for height and with the 3 legs (usually) at the bottom. But still will require learning a little balance at first.
Saw horses can make excellent dipping devices. Even have used kitchen counter tops, where they form a 90 degree angle ("V" shape).The back of chairs..not so much.Good Luck.
Thank ya. I work for a medical equipment rental company. Old people walkers make for great dip stands. Gironda thought that max activation of the pecs was achieved when the knuckles are facing inward. For max triceps stimulation, knuckles out.
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I figured this thread is due for a good bumping.
Here's a nice article that Christian Thibaudeau wrote for T-Mag a few years back:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_gironda_system;jsessionid=D763E6D53850C215654124D726A8C220-mcd02.hydra
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Great Thread This One - Should be read by ALL.
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credit: http://www.palmieribodybuilding.com/Larry%20Scott%20Article.pdf
When one thinks of bodybuilding and Larry Scott it is difficult to do so without also thinking about Vince Gironda, Rheo H. Blair, and Joe Weider.
There always seems to be an association between them. Good or bad, it’s a very select group and names that not only are part of bodybuilding but will be forever recorded in the annals of bodybuilding history as champions, leaders, and innovators.
The last time I spoke with Larry I was working on the “Vince Gironda Legend And Myth” CD. I hadn’t seen or spoken with him in many years. When I called I was
deeply grateful when he remembered who I was. We proceeded to spend a few moments reminiscing of the “Good Old Days”.
It’s always nice to know someone that has the celebrity Larry does is also thoughtful and humble enough to not only remember but also say a few kind words to someone they have not seen or heard from in years. That’s Larry!
I wanted to include some of Larry’s comments in my project because I know Vince thought a lot of Larry and Larry felt the same way about Vince.
In fact, a great many photos of Larry working out that have been published in various magazines were taken at Vince’s Gym. This was no small task for a photographer as Vince’s was a dark place. The lighting was very poor for photography purposes.
Still it was Larry who insisted they be taken at Vince’s. Some may not think much of that but it shows Larry’s respect for Vince. Along with a lot of things Larry once said. “Humility, not arrogance isthe true mark of a champion”.
Larry Scott is a true champion.
Here is my interview with Larry that I did for the “Vince Gironda Legend And Myth” CD.
AP: Larry, thank you for taking the time to talk with me. I am working on a project updating my book on Vince. I know that Vince was very cantankerous but he was always very good to me. He would tell people not to call but always allowed me to do so. He sent me all his courses and would take a lot of time talking to me about training and nutrition.
He would also give me updates on your training and the progress you were making. I believe that you are probably one of the most famous of all that came out of Vince’s. I would just like to pick your mind a little and get some comments from you about your relationship with Vince because it appeared there was a special chemistry
between you two.
LS: Well, as you are probably aware I think it was your southern accent that endeared you to Vince. He could be a hard guy to get along with and could make people nervous. We never socialized at all. Vince had a lot of knowledge and professionally we were close and I would go to him all the time when I had any questions about training and something I was trying to figure out.
Vince was always really good about giving me ideas. He was very knowledgeable about physiques in that he wouldn’t give you an idea and just say, “you got to do this,” he would say, “try this.” Then I would take it and try it and let him know whether or not it worked.
So our relationship in that regard was very good. Sometimes he would make me nervous because he could be so unpredictable in his
emotional outbursts he made me feel like he was a walking time bomb or something. Never knowing when he was going to go off.
I remember the very first time I met him, I walked into his health club and I guess I must have had, you know, kind of a big head. I managed to appear in one magazine and I walked in and I said “how do you do, my name is Larry Scott.”
I must have said it in a way, that sounded like: “Hey, here I am,” because Vince said “so what!”
AP: Typical Vince Gironda fashion.
LS: Well, that kind of defines our relationship. Then when I won the California contest, some of the guys came back to the gym and said, “Larry won,” and Vince said, “he didn’t deserve it.” They said, “What do you mean he didn’t deserve it?” “He looked great!”
Vince said, “He wasn’t ready physiologically.” Maybe I wasn’t and maybe I needed to pay the price first and he paid the price and knew what he was talking about. It all kind
of, I don’t know, defines the relationship we had.
When I moved back to Utah, and I would go back to take photos for Joe Weider, I would always insist that we would take them at Vince’s Gym. Joe would say that it was too dark in there, “it’s not a good light Larry.” I would say I would just like to do it because I always wanted to help keep Vince in the limelight as well as I could because he had
given me a lot of advice, a lot of which I wasn’t aware of. I was ah, shocked, that’s almost the right word. At one point later on I had told Vince: “If you can give me all your
booklets, I will design an ad for you, to put in MuscleMag International that will help sell your booklets.” One that I think would be better because I had seen the one he had in
there currently and I could see some of the things I knew about marketing were not being utilized in his ads. I thought I could help him. In order for me to do that I needed to know what the content of each one was so I could pick out “hot buttons” out of each one to use in the ad.
Vince sent them to me and I started to read them and I was amazed to see how many things he had in his books that I thought I had come up with on my own. I had taken credit for them, not intentionally, I just thought they were mine, but they were actually his ideas he had about training. I was pretty amazed at that.
I guess out of thanks, appreciation, I went back to Vince’s for a photo session and he took me in the back and he showed me where he had hung a sign that said, Larry Scott’s Dressing Room. I could not believe it. I just could not believe that he would ever do something like that. He never ever gave me the indication that he would ever do
something like that. I was flabbergasted. So that kind of shows you the relationship we
had.
AP: The times Vince and I talked on the phone about you he was always very complimentary. He always had positive things to say about you and how hard you would
work. He would get on my case quite often; in fact he even hung up on me one time, typical Vince style. I tried to call him back for about three days and he refused to take my phone call. Finally he took it and I said, “well you hung up on me last time Vince.” He said, “If you start I’ll hang up on you again!”
LS: A lot of the things he did I would like to have had the courage to do.
AP: Larry how about some of the valuable lessons Vince passed on to you about training or anything else. Do you have any you would like to share?
LS: I remember when I competed in a Los Angeles contest, I took third. There was one chap in there named Franklin Jones, he won the Most Muscular. Three months later I went into the Mr. California contest. My sole intention was just winning the Most Muscular; I thought I could do that. I didn’t think I had any chance of winning but I did
want to win Most Muscular. In the meantime, Vince had helped me with my posing and it made a tremendous difference. I won the California contest and it was an absolute shock, total shock.
When I didn’t get fifth I gave up because I knew I wasn’t even going to be in the running. When I got first I was dumbfounded.
Just a short while ago, a guy by the name of Ron Kosloff, who is a real fan of Vince Gironda’s, sent me a video of Vince’s posing routine. I had never seen Vince’s posing routine. My posing was based on what Vince taught me. A lot of things, after you have done them for so many years you begin to think you came up with the ideas yourself. I
watched the video of his posing routine and I’m telling you, they were the poses I did. The way he went from one pose to the next, I learned that from Vince.
I’m a lot more of a fan or product of Vince’s then I ever realized, so I can’t say enough about Vince. I can’t
say enough about his knowledge. He helped me a lot. I learned the down the rack dumbbell system for shoulders. I couldn’t get big in my shoulders. I had tried all the things in the magazines and they didn’t work for me, I had to put on more meat because I wasn’t as big as some of the others. Vince taught me that down the rack system for deltoids which really helped me put on some extra weight in my shoulders which I needed so badly.
Vince led me to the Preacher Bench. I had never heard of the Preacher Bench. It was a funny looking little bench in his gym and I didn’t like working biceps, I was more into
triceps. He led me over to the Preacher Bench and showed me how to use it. It became a bone of contention between us because I got to where I used it so much that whenever I did an article for Joe Weider that talked about arms I would take him over to that bench.
Joe is a real creative guy and he called it the Scott Bench. Boy, I tell you, I had fits over this. The first time the article came out in the Weider magazine and it said, the “Scott Preacher Bench,” Vince put it up on his bulletin board and put a big red line through it and wrote “bullshit” under it. I said, “Vince, I didn’t write that.” Yeah, right he said.
AP: If I am not mistaken the Easton Brothers Gym had the original Preacher Bench.
LS: Yes, they are the ones that actually created it.
AP: You are the one that made the bench famous. I can’t remember a time when you did not have name recognition with the bench.
LS: I guess I popularized it. There were a couple of things about it I didn’t like so when I got out to California I asked Vince for his permission to remanufacture those pieces and change it. I didn’t say anything about changing; I wouldn’t dare say that to him. I asked him if I could manufacture them and he gave me his permission. I changed some things on them. After so long in the business you learn to improve on things if you can but Vince was the foundation of where it all came from.
AP: There toward the end I had heard that Vince’s Gym really hit on some hard times and he eventually sold all his equipment for something like twenty thousand dollars, did you hear anything about that?
LS: Yes, I did know about that, and I was sick when I heard he sold all his dumbbells and all his equipment for five grand. I would never have even dared to offer him anything like that. I would have loved to have had those.
AP: Boy oh boy. Gosh, just the Preacher, Scott Bench that he had would have easily brought five to ten thousand itself. That is really sad.
LS: It was sad. As a matter of fact, I told Vince I was going to and help him. I was going to put together a special fund raiser for Vince and I was trying to get all the guys, you know; bodybuilders, movie stars, etc. to come. I wanted to help him raise cash and pay off some bills. Of all the actors that worked out there, and I won’t mention names of those that wouldn’t help, but the one that was positive and willing to pitch in was Clint Eastwood.
A lot of the bodybuilders were but I couldn’t get any of the actors that trained at Vince’s. Vince had a lot of friends and people that spoke highly of him.
I remember one day when Clint Eastwood was in Vince’s training, he was doing side laterals I think, for his shoulders. I said “Clint, come here and let me show you how to do
this to make a lot more progress.” He said, “Oh man, I’m leaving you make me tired.” He wasn’t very motivated.
I remember Clint Walker from the Cheyenne series trained at Vince’s quite a lot. There were a lot of people that trained at Vince’s, mainly movie stars and bodybuilders. At one
time, there were four Mr. Americas training there at the same time. Most of the guy’s who were training for physique contests had to work during the day so most of the actors were there around midday.
AP: Well Larry, you have certainly provided a great amount of information and I am deeply grateful for your time. Are there any last comments you would like to add about Vince or Vince’s Gym?
LS: Some may think it didn’t look like much but boy that gym had class. All the pieces were leather covered. Although it was dark inside, in the spring or when it would rain and water would come running down the hill (behind Vince’s), we would have to walk around in bare feet; we were walking in water. The pieces (equipment), were tailored, I mean they were just good pieces. If you go to some gyms today the equipment is not made for the body, not the way it should work. The equipment at Vince’s were tailored for the guy who knew what he was doing. I always trained there when I went to California, it was a great club.
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Nice Q&A's session with Scott (offered by Montague). Informative and interesting, need more stuff like this on GB.
I heard the hillside rain story from a couple of old timers who trained there for awhile. Doesn't rain too much in SoCal, but when it does we get the mudslides and heavy water run offs big time.
Believe that Gironda was married 3 or 4 times (with lots of girlfriends included), and that did take a toll on his money woes. Don't know what the official count of how many kids he really had or divorce settlements. Just know that one son worked with him for awhile. It's a shame that he worked so hard and gave so much to the BB'ing community, and yet died with nothing much to show for all of that, money wise. But than, his memory and inventive ideas are alive and well even today in BB'ing. And guy's like the Weider bros made millions off their special brand of hype.
Don't know if it was mentioned before but Kay Baxter died in a car crash, maybe at least 15 years ago.
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Some shots of Vince’s Gym:
(http://www.ironguru.com/images/stories/rick-wayne-vince-gym.jpg)
(http://www.davedraper.com/gallery/data/510/88-22028889.jpg)
(http://www.whowasvincegironda.com/images/vincesgym.jpg)
(http://www.ironbody.it/assets/images/vince/vincegym1.gif)
(http://www.criticalbench.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/vincesgym.jpg)
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQu7IZ3UiZLr8O4jdovruu70HCBlvnWyaqEhcPi5OcfmWx95yto2La6SmyF)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3265/2781851322_4cbb6fbba0.jpg)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTx0aiTBYsDekpdcChQF5q8SxVQg4POoyk1YQWxDlkXd_lDsvdqLh1VuB4_)
(http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/2008/08-181-training/image005.jpg)
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(http://new.nspresearchnutrition.com/wp-content/themes/shopperpress/thumbs//vince1.jpg)
(http://www.drdarden.com/forum_images/68992-vince_gironda_03.jpg)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSM3HE_zG_7uHFW9Hgt4HQeqMgX9JyMbmHyqPyf2j9IdwQvPh8Jx0j3Vs6iiw)
(http://storage.sfd.pl/1/images2008/20080626003825.jpg)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjyEqY3BjADMq8-KpLQv5aE0E5oEOBruPhu49G8kf7jq3r3CGXNdXExoV-PQ)
(http://leanhybridmuscle.com/go/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/VincesGym.jpg)
(http://vincegironda-nsp.com/wp-content/gallery/photos/vince_gironda_nsp.jpg)
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgztu4TCol1qe7gbv.jpg)
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Some of Vince's instruction manuals:
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFU49hfOwTB2pHWEezdtdUwz_zUWF6c-9rW5M9m_-uKFcKlt2cz6oRUEsJ)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6Qv1hGy-xWU/SApX94WZvoI/AAAAAAAAAAM/H_ksJ3Aszro/s400/67f25-Gironda_Odyssey.jpg)
(http://www.ironguru.com/images/vince-gironda-vim-cover.jpg)
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Great thread!!
Been a follower of Vince ever since I found out about him years ago.......read everything I could find by him and practiced a lot of his methods with great results when I was younger.
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Great thread!!
Been a follower of Vince ever since I found out about him years ago.......read everything I could find by him and practiced a lot of his methods with great results when I was younger.
I've implemented several of his training ideas for chest & shoulders and have been very pleased with the results.
In many ways, I look at Gironda the same way I do Poliquin; not everything he espouses is "scripture," but a lot of it is very good advice.
Also, from experience, I consider a great deal of his dietary strategy to be solid.
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Awesome thread! Been a follower of Vince for a while now....thank you.
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Vince's Six-week Bulk Course:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9z4iLN55I/AAAAAAAAAHI/mmVH7p-mB2Q/s1600/1227018759-Vince1.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9z6RwP1tI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/0wIz4sH3Oss/s1600/1227018823-Vince2.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9z7y874OI/AAAAAAAAAHY/GiU4xrsT9n8/s1600/1227018889-Vince3.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9z9tR6NPI/AAAAAAAAAHg/JCjlL-8V6os/s1600/1227018954-Vince4.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI90AQfRBzI/AAAAAAAAAHo/CKoKu3VO-Pc/s1600/1227019015-Vince5.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI90CZuJ8WI/AAAAAAAAAHw/hY79Vsu2cB8/s1600/1227019072-Vince6.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI90EHhF1UI/AAAAAAAAAH4/v_KxjMktR3o/s1600/1227019125-Vince7.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI90FmTR7AI/AAAAAAAAAIA/yVB9QN1zVH4/s1600/1227019177-Vince8.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI90HHaLz4I/AAAAAAAAAII/Z4HgaDCS3NU/s1600/1227019225-Vince9.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI90I2qWocI/AAAAAAAAAIQ/uH1PYrt8YBw/s1600/1227118442-GDiet.jpg)
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Vince's Definition Course:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wjasjbfI/AAAAAAAAAFI/ommKDfdDeBE/s1600/1244985233-Def1.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wqFV-WzI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/LLTdV6Q-lO4/s1600/1244985242-Def2.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wt3dDbfI/AAAAAAAAAFY/R-k6VvfcmIU/s1600/1244985255-Def3.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wvhNW0pI/AAAAAAAAAFg/ZUWi-TFGtXw/s1600/1244985391-Def4.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wxoGvU5I/AAAAAAAAAFo/o9pGXnX6G5E/s1600/1244985401-DEf5.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wzkmAnDI/AAAAAAAAAFw/SkHxGsdc4ss/s1600/1244985412-DEf6.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w1aQDhVI/AAAAAAAAAF4/j2AayG3cz4I/s1600/1244985426-Def7.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w3g9p-uI/AAAAAAAAAGA/XIkwDbDi8Bg/s1600/1244985443-Def8.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w5earQvI/AAAAAAAAAGI/DQB-dS_vlNw/s1600/1244985459-Def9.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w7LEQjaI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/j_R55FD7Dlw/s1600/1244985479-Def10.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w86BleLI/AAAAAAAAAGY/jFhESxGOQ0w/s1600/1244985605-Def11.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w-ujG24I/AAAAAAAAAGg/8UKJn55Wpqo/s1600/1244985616-Deff12.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9xAfPAj4I/AAAAAAAAAGo/PhUSpqQHN7M/s1600/1244985627-Def13.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9xCiGLZqI/AAAAAAAAAGw/-pGEHnTVwk4/s1600/1244985641-Def14.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9xEcP7tRI/AAAAAAAAAG4/wB6j4mt10Hg/s1600/1244985656-Def15.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9xGE2DwVI/AAAAAAAAAHA/-qZZyRbHE4w/s1600/1244985674-Def16.jpg)
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courtesy of dj181:
http://www.palmieribodybuilding.com/The%20Vince%20Gironda%20Workout%20Bulletin%20and%20Me.pdf
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Vince's Definition Course:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wjasjbfI/AAAAAAAAAFI/ommKDfdDeBE/s1600/1244985233-Def1.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wqFV-WzI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/LLTdV6Q-lO4/s1600/1244985242-Def2.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wt3dDbfI/AAAAAAAAAFY/R-k6VvfcmIU/s1600/1244985255-Def3.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wvhNW0pI/AAAAAAAAAFg/ZUWi-TFGtXw/s1600/1244985391-Def4.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wxoGvU5I/AAAAAAAAAFo/o9pGXnX6G5E/s1600/1244985401-DEf5.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wzkmAnDI/AAAAAAAAAFw/SkHxGsdc4ss/s1600/1244985412-DEf6.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w1aQDhVI/AAAAAAAAAF4/j2AayG3cz4I/s1600/1244985426-Def7.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w3g9p-uI/AAAAAAAAAGA/XIkwDbDi8Bg/s1600/1244985443-Def8.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w5earQvI/AAAAAAAAAGI/DQB-dS_vlNw/s1600/1244985459-Def9.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w7LEQjaI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/j_R55FD7Dlw/s1600/1244985479-Def10.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w86BleLI/AAAAAAAAAGY/jFhESxGOQ0w/s1600/1244985605-Def11.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w-ujG24I/AAAAAAAAAGg/8UKJn55Wpqo/s1600/1244985616-Deff12.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9xAfPAj4I/AAAAAAAAAGo/PhUSpqQHN7M/s1600/1244985627-Def13.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9xCiGLZqI/AAAAAAAAAGw/-pGEHnTVwk4/s1600/1244985641-Def14.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9xEcP7tRI/AAAAAAAAAG4/wB6j4mt10Hg/s1600/1244985656-Def15.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9xGE2DwVI/AAAAAAAAAHA/-qZZyRbHE4w/s1600/1244985674-Def16.jpg)
nice ;D ;D
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nice ;D ;D
Thanks.
The Internet: it's not just for porn anymore!!
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Well due to popular demand I finally decided to start this thread. Over the next few weeks I will post as many Vince related articles as possible. They will be about training, diet, and everything else from the Gironda Universe. I figured I'd start it out with this article written by Vince.
The Essence of Bodybuilding
By Vince Gironda
(From Iron Man, May 1983)
I have stated numerous times that champions obviously possess something that others do not. Even though training partners do the same routine set for set, rep for rep, they do not obtain the benefits of the champions.
I have observed champions train in a manner I do not approve, but they receive results that are phenomenal. What is it that they possess? Well, I will tell you, they are using mental suggestion (self-hypnosis).
When I first observed this, it puzzled me. The first time I noticed Walt Baptiste, former gym owner and magazine publisher from San Francisco (Body Moderne), touching his abdominals while backstage before going out to pose at several physique contests, he seemed to be saying something to his abdominals as he stroked them. He seemed to be sending a message into this body section, because I could actually see the abs sharpen up and grow more outlined than his normal condition. I later discovered that Walt was sending mental images to his subconscious, to produce this phenomena.
I learned that you can actually produce the desired condition by picturing in your mind what you wish to manifest. He also breathed deeply and regularly in through his nose and out through his pursed lips. As you know, this type of breathing is employed between sets prior to repeating the next set. At this time, the mechanism employed should be to picture in your mind a clear image of the muscle or area of the body you wish to develop, and hold the image throughout the performance of that set.
Walt promoted the first Mr. California Physique Contests, in which I placed second and third several times. He later gave up his gym and opened a chain of yoga studios in the San Francisco area.
The technique of mental suggestion is what all physical culture writers are trying to explain when they throw that nebulous term "concentration" at you. They seem to recognize that concentration is necessary, but do not know how to trigger the mechanism that produces the phenomenon. The subconscious believes any thought you perceive, and stores it. It accepts everything that is thought or spoken by you or another, if you accept it as truth. But it must be repeated again and again until the subconscious accepts it as fact. Then it will produce the condition pictured in your mind.
This procedure is what I maintain is used by the champions, whether or not they are aware of it. They are convinced of a successful outcome.
This awareness is more important that any steroid drug, any diet plan or supplement, or any exercise routine ever conceived. I have observed bodybuilders who take steroids and receive no benefits. They take unimaginable amounts of supplements and constantly try new routines, but are not getting results, and never will until they discover that what I have written here is the true essence of bodybuilding. For years I have been asked by my fans to write the secrets of the champions, and here you have it.
not genetics with juice and lots of training and some liposuction ?
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lAJ-7XLpPwM/SahuMgyZYUI/AAAAAAAAATk/n1V5lEf1hC8/s320/Synergy+Kettlebell+Training+Vince+Gironda.jpg)
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(http://www.mazeru.web.id/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/vince-gironda-alpha-state.jpg)
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http://physicalcounterculture.blogspot.com/p/vince-gironda-6-week-bulk-course.html (http://physicalcounterculture.blogspot.com/p/vince-gironda-6-week-bulk-course.html)
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vince's book the wild physique is a good read...his diet advice can be questioned as being a bit unhealthy...but compared to the beef it book by bob kennedy the wild physique beats it by light years.
vince also looks ripped on his diet
probly atkins approved
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magikusar analysis:
vince looked awesome
he did roids
he did lighter weights for higher reps and all protein deit with roids to get ripped
he is closer to ideal than ronnie and todays bus body types
I do not think he skipped roids, just a feeling, liek jordan and pippen, just not lift heavy when on em
if he didnt do roid, which I feel 99% he did, then all the better
a guy who showed howto look good
should have written more books, his only one 99$ on amazon used
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;D
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When you look at his chest i think dips do make a difference.. gives a nice shape
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That's posing... I don't see much of that anymore.
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When you look at his chest i think dips do make a difference.. gives a nice shape
My chest has benefitted from doing two Gironda favorites: neck presses and "reverse" v-bar dips.
Since I almost always train alone anymore, I typically use either a Smith or Hammer Strength machine, which I feel has no bearing on the effectiveness of the movement. If anything, I suspect the machine "forces" me to use AND KEEP the critically stricter form throughout each set.
The dips are a bit different. Since v-bars are a rarity in gyms these days, I perform a modified version on parallel dipping bars by placing my hands on the butt/end of the handles with my knuckles facing the same direction they would as in the Gironda method. I find the feel of this to be amazing whether using closer or wider spaced handles.
Granted, the results aren't "magic," but my chest has seen noticeable improvement as a result of these exercises.
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My chest has benefitted from doing two Gironda favorites: neck presses and "reverse" v-bar dips.
Since I almost always train alone anymore, I typically use either a Smith or Hammer Strength machine, which I feel has no bearing on the effectiveness of the movement. If anything, I suspect the machine "forces" me to use AND KEEP the critically stricter form throughout each set.
The dips are a bit different. Since v-bars are a rarity in gyms these days, I perform a modified version on parallel dipping bars by placing my hands on the butt/end of the handles with my knuckles facing the same direction they would as in the Gironda method. I find the feel of this to be amazing whether using closer or wider spaced handles.
Granted, the results aren't "magic," but my chest has seen noticeable improvement as a result of these exercises.
vince g was portrayed as being totally opposed to the newer machines of his day{nautilis machines} i believe mainly because gym owners of the time didn't want to give these machines creedance and than having to purchase them for their gyms.
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well some gym owners opted for Nautilus only gyms too... I think V Gironda really was not into these machines and was maybe a bit blinkered by his own theories.
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Never have been to Gironda's former gym (think it was torn down when I was a kid), but having spoken to two old timers who had been, it seems there never would have been room for any Nautilus type machines in there, in the first place. Plus the cost, given the rumor that Gironda was very tight with the buck. Probable due, in part, to some of his ex-wife'/girl friends. And not giving the satisfaction that any machine could get more credit than his BB'ing methods. (as Funk51 suggest..I bet Funk's been to that gym). Remembering that Gironda designed and built most of the devices in that gym. Been by the parking lot where the gym once was (Ventura Blvd) just over the pass from Hollywood. Sad , really.
Gionda had excellent body tie-in's, balance and flowing lines. No dis here; but as far as most impressive muscle mass and development, not so much (my view only). But for a small boned man,he had the classic lines that the average man or women could relate too; Greek and Roman classic.
A genius for his time, and even today, no doubt. His thoughts and pamphlets hold idea's of value, even today, for true and pure BB'ing.
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When you look at his chest i think dips do make a difference.. gives a nice shape
100 pct my chest grow on those alone,,i do at time for weeks the bench to the neck which he advocated,sometimes superset dips with inc or flat flyes..
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100 pct my chest grow on those alone,,i do at time for weeks the bench to the neck which he advocated,sometimes superset dips with inc or flat flyes..
just my humble opinion but the Dip spreads your chest. It seems to shape it ALL. sure a flat Bench will hit it all too and will build a thick chest but the parallel bar dip builds and shapes it. Hard to explain.. people say Dips ..lower chest line...Bench press(flat) lower middle and Incline(upper). I still feel dips more in my chest than Bench press but i do both(alternate workouts because both together would kill me). Do not get me wrong Benches are great too.. i have to use DB flys in my bench workout too to feel my chest like Dips.
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just my humble opinion but the Dip spreads your chest. It seems to shape it ALL. sure a flat Bench will hit it all too and will build a thick chest but the parallel bar dip builds and shapes it. Hard to explain.. people say Dips ..lower chest line...Bench press(flat) lower middle and Incline(upper). I still feel dips more in my chest than Bench press but i do both(alternate workouts because both together would kill me). Do not get me wrong Benches are great too.. i have to use DB flys in my bench workout too to feel my chest like Dips.
DO DIPS 15/20 REPS 4X THEN GO TO BEACH LOL,,DELTS AND OUTER/ UPPER PECS LOOK INSANE...I AM A BIG FLYE AND CABLE CROSSOVER ADVOCATE AG GO QUITE HEAVY ON THEM OUTER CHEST AND UPPER TIE IN IS WHAT MAKES A GREAT CHEST...
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DO DIPS 15/20 REPS 4X THEN GO TO BEACH LOL,,DELTS AND OUTER/ UPPER PECS LOOK INSANE...I AM A BIG FLYE AND CABLE CROSSOVER ADVOCATE AG GO QUITE HEAVY ON THEM OUTER CHEST AND UPPER TIE IN IS WHAT MAKES A GREAT CHEST...
well i can hit 15 reps per set dips and i am finished. i have tried weighted dips in the 6-8 rep range but it´s not the same. High reps as you pointed out are best.
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well i can hit 15 reps per set dips and i am finished. i have tried weighted dips in the 6-8 rep range but it´s not the same. High reps as you pointed out are best.
I DO SETS UP TO 20 AT TIMES AT END OF WORKOUT OR BEGINNING TO GET THING'S PUMPING,,I HAVE DONE WEIGHTED THING 45 THEN 45 AND 25 ATTACHED LOW REPS LIKE U MENTIONED AND IT WRECKS UR FRONT DELTS AND PUMP IS LESS GO FIGURE,,,SAME WITH CHINS BODYWEIGHT AND WEIGHTED NO DIFFERENCE
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did anyone post a workout yet?
seems dips, spider bench curl, hack squat, and curls against body? with some db laterals?
no abs
no cardio
eat protien n heavy whip cream?
so muscles start to grow in promportions make u look wide and army
and dieet leans u out
until V like vince
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Vince's Definition Course:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wjasjbfI/AAAAAAAAAFI/ommKDfdDeBE/s1600/1244985233-Def1.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wqFV-WzI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/LLTdV6Q-lO4/s1600/1244985242-Def2.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wt3dDbfI/AAAAAAAAAFY/R-k6VvfcmIU/s1600/1244985255-Def3.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wvhNW0pI/AAAAAAAAAFg/ZUWi-TFGtXw/s1600/1244985391-Def4.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wxoGvU5I/AAAAAAAAAFo/o9pGXnX6G5E/s1600/1244985401-DEf5.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9wzkmAnDI/AAAAAAAAAFw/SkHxGsdc4ss/s1600/1244985412-DEf6.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w1aQDhVI/AAAAAAAAAF4/j2AayG3cz4I/s1600/1244985426-Def7.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w3g9p-uI/AAAAAAAAAGA/XIkwDbDi8Bg/s1600/1244985443-Def8.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w5earQvI/AAAAAAAAAGI/DQB-dS_vlNw/s1600/1244985459-Def9.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w7LEQjaI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/j_R55FD7Dlw/s1600/1244985479-Def10.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w86BleLI/AAAAAAAAAGY/jFhESxGOQ0w/s1600/1244985605-Def11.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9w-ujG24I/AAAAAAAAAGg/8UKJn55Wpqo/s1600/1244985616-Deff12.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9xAfPAj4I/AAAAAAAAAGo/PhUSpqQHN7M/s1600/1244985627-Def13.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9xCiGLZqI/AAAAAAAAAGw/-pGEHnTVwk4/s1600/1244985641-Def14.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9xEcP7tRI/AAAAAAAAAG4/wB6j4mt10Hg/s1600/1244985656-Def15.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EawWEIHmw5U/TI9xGE2DwVI/AAAAAAAAAHA/-qZZyRbHE4w/s1600/1244985674-Def16.jpg)
outstanding post
saved to disk
out standing
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:)
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vince was sometimes misqoted he was against ful squats mostly because he didnt want big butts . in some case those muscle become overdeveloped as in powerlifters . he was unique and marginal . obliques are needed for squat stabilzation so you need a solid midsection for huge squats . . anybody can squat 800 pounds with 35 inch waist .. not anyone over 5 fot 11 tall certainly .
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Vince Gironda discussion -
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much appreciated!!
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good link to the iron guru.
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good link to the iron guru.
NOW THERE'S AN EXCELLENT PIC!
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good link to the iron guru.
pete caputo, don howorth, gil lederman bob tessier the actor.
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pete caputo, don howorth, gil lederman bob tessier the actor.
dan mackey, steve reno and???????
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;)
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For some reason I can't remember who the guy on the far right is.
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For some reason I can't remember who the guy on the far right is.
don peters RIP
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Every getbigger should spend some time in the HSM section. A lot of gold in here. Great pics?
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yes lots of great stuff in here
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don peters RIP
;) the story on peters was that he helped arnold out training in his home gym etc in exchange for some publicity in weider's mags. later peters was on tv on the people's court in a trial. peters was a studio tech so whenever they needed a muscleman peters often got the call.
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:)
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;)
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;)
joe nista, don peters johnny issacs reg park's brother in law and the giant lloyd lampton arm wrestling champ.
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;)
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;)don p on the cher show.
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love Bill grants hair...lol but i have to say Bill Grant is a cool guy wrote to him on Facebook and he wrote back was very nice.
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;Dpic might have been taken in don peters house.
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love Bill grants hair...lol but i have to say Bill Grant is a cool guy wrote to him on Facebook and he wrote back was very nice.
bill is a great guy has time for everyone, he actually comes around my area often puts on and mc's shows in pa , n jersey area. he brings his friends along. i was talking to this one guy at the show and i kept thinking this guy looks familar, i realized after that it was leon brown.
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bill is a great guy has time for everyone, he actually comes around my area often puts on and mc's shows in pa , n jersey area. he brings his friends along. i was talking to this one guy at the show and i kept thinking this guy looks familar, i realized after that it was leon brown.
;)leon brown first bber to have his pic in sports illustrated.
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the famous pool playing pics were taken at don peters house.
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What, exactly, is going on in this photo?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=466913.0;attach=514628;image)
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Not that I agree with everything, but he was a smart & charismatic person with vision, not afraid to share his opinions. I loved his controversial articles/interviews in Ironman
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great pics like always Funky Bro.. ;)
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What, exactly, is going on in this photo?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=466913.0;attach=514628;image)
strange pic either betty weider is really strong or those are fake weights.
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strange pic either betty weider is really strong or those are fake weights.
I'm hedging on the Herculean physicality of Betty.
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love Bill grants hair...lol but i have to say Bill Grant is a cool guy wrote to him on Facebook and he wrote back was very nice.
yes, Donny......you are right......Bill Grant is a stand up dude!!!! Talk about full Biceps!!!
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yes, Donny......you are right......Bill Grant is a stand up dude!!!! Talk about full Biceps!!!
i like his humour and the fun way he brings things over in his videos...would be a fun guy to train with and is down to earth and normal.
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:P
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:P
BILL LOOKS SENSATIONAL!!!
THANKS AGAIN FUNK!
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;D all of vince's gym equipment has been located and is in a private gym somewhere as reported by david gironda on facebook. apparently a close friend of vince's has preserved pretty much all the equipment a lot of the photos the gym awning etc. they might open it up on a limited basis, unsure at this time. photos are on facebook with more to follow.
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;D all of vince's gym equipment has been located and is in a private gym somewhere as reported by david gironda on facebook. apparently a close friend of vince's has preserved pretty much all the equipment a lot of the photos the gym awning etc. they might open it up on a limited basis, unsure at this time. photos are on facebook with more to follow.
have to look ...cheers funky Bro
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Good news Funk... Very cool...
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;D all of vince's gym equipment has been located and is in a private gym somewhere as reported by david gironda on facebook. apparently a close friend of vince's has preserved pretty much all the equipment a lot of the photos the gym awning etc. they might open it up on a limited basis, unsure at this time. photos are on facebook with more to follow.
I presume David is Vince's son?
That's very cool news, by the way!!
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I presume David is Vince's son?
That's very cool news, by the way!!
Not sure if Vince had kids?
I think this is a 2nd cousin of some sort... (Vince and this guys father were cousins I believe)...
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Not sure if Vince had kids?
I think this is a 2nd cousin of some sort... (Vince and this guys father were cousins I believe)...
Okay, that sounds more right. I was also under the impression that Vince had no kids. Maybe that's a good thing!! ;)
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Vince gironda, "The Wild physique"...
"this Book is Dedicated with respect ,
love,and friendship to my son Guy, in the certain knowledge that he will one Day surpass my humble achievements,as is the order of things....
Vince Gironda
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Vince gironda, "The Wild physique"...
"this Book is Dedicated with respect ,
love,and friendship to my son Guy, in the certain knowledge that he will one Day surpass my humble achievements,as is the order of things....
Vince Gironda
Hmm... Guess I should have picked up a few more books in my youth.
;D
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he definely had a son named guy, ,i'm not sure who david gironda sr is though got to be a relative. i guess i should have asked him, gotta see if ric drasin could do a video from there. he actually got reg lewis on his internet show after i asked him if he could. the funny thing is seeing the equipment in color after only seeing the inside of the gym in b and W.
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;D all of vince's gym equipment has been located and is in a private gym somewhere as reported by david gironda on facebook. apparently a close friend of vince's has preserved pretty much all the equipment a lot of the photos the gym awning etc. they might open it up on a limited basis, unsure at this time. photos are on facebook with more to follow.
very cool!!!
thanks for the info!!!
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am trying to get ric drasin to do a net show on the equipment but hard to put the two parties together ric wants to do it.
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am trying to get ric drasin to do a net show on the equipment but hard to put the two parties together ric wants to do it.
That would be great because ric drasin is such a great guy and old School. if you can pull the negoiations off funky Bro..you are the best !
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ric in the 80s...
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That would be great because ric drasin is such a great guy and old School. if you can pull the negoiations off funky Bro..you are the best !
david gironda contacted me asking about ric drasin , so this could still happen.... ;D
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david gironda contacted me asking about ric drasin , so this could still happen.... ;D
you are a great MOD.. cool to hear some stories from him about Vince. how is your Husky doing ?
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you are a great MOD.. cool to hear some stories from him about Vince. how is your Husky doing ?
doing good never sick one day in her life 7 years old now.
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Great looking Dog...man i would go running and have Long walks with a Dog like yours. as a kid i always went for Long walks with my fathers German Shepard. great times.
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:o the same equipment clint eastwood trained on....
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doing good never sick one day in her life 7 years old now.
Great pic / dog... John looks HUGE in that pic...
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;D
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Man, Vince is the reason I started experimenting with different elbow and grip variations on dips, and it made a noticeable difference!!
I've emulated his "knuckles-in" grip with concave body arch to great avail!
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and the results
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vince looks dwarfed in that picture. Who is the guy on the left funky ?
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I've read that Gironda was actually "penalized" for being "too lean" in contests.
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I've read that Gironda was actually "penalized" for being "too lean" in contests.
yes i read that too.
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vince looks dwarfed in that picture. Who is the guy on the left funky ?
the guy on the left was a tall competitor first competeing in 1959 for the aau mr nj than going to the ifbb won the tall class the yeat ed corney won overall mr a ifbb than finished up in the wbbg mid 70's. his name was charles fautz. gitl in first pic was dawn mozee wife of gene mozee.
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I've read that Gironda was actually "penalized" for being "too lean" in contests.
correct judges didn't know where to place him as few guys were able to develop the highly defined look at the time, see the elias rodriquez thread....
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the guy on the left was a tall competitor first competeing in 1959 for the aau mr nj than going to the ifbb won the tall class the yeat ed corney won overall mr a ifbb than finished up in the wbbg mid 70's. his name was charles fautz. gitl in first pic was dawn mozee wife of gene mozee.
Thanks Funky.
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:o
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good pics.. never seen these before.
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8)
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good pics.. never seen these before.
Funk's ability of recall is scary; like "Children of the Corn" scary!!
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pete caputo, don howorth, gil lederman bob tessier the actor.
My father was in the same bunk with Bob Tessier in the navy. Bob was from Lowell, MA (where I work) my Dad was from Lawrence MA (10 mins away).
They were both in Korea. (war)...
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My father was in the same bunk with Bob Tessier in the navy. Bob was from Lowell, MA (where I work) my Dad was from Lawrence MA (10 mins away).
They were both in Korea. (war)...
small world bob tessier was a decent actor always type cast in tough guy roles, he was actually a good guy in the deep but than earl maynard killed him.....
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My father was in the same bunk with Bob Tessier in the navy. Bob was from Lowell, MA (where I work) my Dad was from Lawrence MA (10 mins away).
They were both in Korea. (war)...
bob tessier was actually an eagle scout.
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bob tessier was actually an eagle scout.
bob tessier on left
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;D
Man, Vince is the reason I started experimenting with different elbow and grip variations on dips, and it made a noticeable difference!!
I've emulated his "knuckles-in" grip with concave body arch to great avail!
;D
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Funk, do you have any idea when that color photo was taken?
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Funk, do you have any idea when that color photo was taken?
no idea, all i know is a david gironda sr[vince's son name was guy] posts this stuff on facebook, i keep trying to get him together with ric drasin to do one of his shows from the location of where most of vince's equipment is. both guys inquired about the other guy , but no results yet.
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:o
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no idea, all i know is a david gironda sr[vince's son name was guy] posts this stuff on facebook, i keep trying to get him together with ric drasin to do one of his shows from the location of where most of vince's equipment is. both guys inquired about the other guy , but no results yet.
I have mucho faith in you!!
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I have mucho faith in you!!
it's in their hands now ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I'm assuming that's the Gironda style "V" dipping bar to the right. We made a version of the "V" bar out of 2X6's, though not that wide. Worked very well for us. A important piece of any training equipment. Even got some heavy bencher's to switch over to dips..all to their benefit. And the famous gymnastic rings way in the back. Another highly useful training aid.
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Vince knew his shit.
He was a bit eccentric...but, he knew his shit!!
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;D
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I've always loved that top pic. Scott looks amazing, and Vince is dressed like Siegfried & Roy.
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:o
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;D another vg technique...
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;Dvg and guy
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;Dvg and guy
wow ...funky. never seen that before. Great picture
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http://www.palmieribodybuilding.com/The%20Vince%20Gironda%20Workout%20Bulletin%20and%20Me.pdf
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wow ...funky. never seen that before. Great picture
Funk51 is a god among insects.
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Funk51 is a god among insects.
He is as you Americanos say...a real stand up Guy... ;D
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Funk51 is a god among insects.
sorta like a lord of the flies..... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) words to live by below according to vince....
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sorta like a lord of the flies..... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) words to live by below according to vince....
quite a list he put together... got to admit i don´t agree with some on there.
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vg and the robinson's skip and father....
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vg and the robinson's skip and father....
correction other guy is not skip's father but jim hamblet. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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correction other guy is not skip's father but jim hamblet. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
You should be ashamed of yourself for such an inaccuracy.
;D
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You should be ashamed of yourself for such an inaccuracy.
;D
Yeah Funky Bro...sort it out ! ;D
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You should be ashamed of yourself for such an inaccuracy.
;D
gotta get my glasses checked but skip's father lifted too, and actually used to bench the big 6= 315 lbs when he was in his 50's....
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;D
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;D
how old was he on the left?
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how old was he on the left?
pretty young he was a good athlete in high school actually held the shot put record even though he weighed but 140 lbs. he threw it 47 ft 1 inch recvord stood for 10 years. he lived from 1917-till 1997. he competed in bodybuilding from 1950-1962, but probably a little earlier in small local contests.
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here it is today
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;D
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Is any of that original equipment from Vince's Ventura Blvd gym?
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i don't see the peek-a -boo window bench
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Is any of that original equipment from Vince's Ventura Blvd gym?
all of it only in color.... some guy has it all preserved....
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i don't see the peek-a -boo window bench
;D window bench for delts.
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No fancy machines in there Funky...great benches...to work every facet of your muscles
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No fancy machines in there Funky...great benches...to work every facet of your muscles
I would LOVE to have sat in on a discussion between Jones and Gironda!!
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any pics of vince's wife?
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any pics of vince's wife?
Which one?
;D
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I would LOVE to have sat in on a discussion between Jones and Gironda!!
yes..both strong characters ;D I´ll go with Vince
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Which one?
;D
lol
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any pics of vince's wife?
;D wife numero 2
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:o
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thanks for the pics!!!!
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the girl with vince is madeleine tambellini. i think .
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:o not sure about these dbs??????????
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:o not sure about these dbs??????????
;) ;) ;) ;)
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vh walt batiste and floyd page.
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Vince with Monty wolford... Vince claimed Monty Wolford had perfect developed legs...
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Gironda believed in upper leg development too..the "power leg extension" leaning back, Sissy squats ( I don´t like them) , dellinger squats, leg squeezes with cables, inner sartorius. The longest muscle running from inside upper thigh down to inner knee. I like doing leaning back leg extensions really hits the upper area too.
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Vince with Monty wolford... Vince claimed Monty Wolford had perfect developed legs...
Wow!!
Quite the (unexpected) compliment from Vince!!!
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Wow!!
Quite the (unexpected) compliment from Vince!!!
Vince gave credit, where credit was due. No social nicety compliments from him. He also said Leo Robert had the best set of abs, that he had ever seen.
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Wow!!
Quite the (unexpected) compliment from Vince!!!
yes he even wrote that he (Vince) nearly got perfect legs but Monty had in his opinion optimal developed legs.
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It's a shame that Vince lost almost everything towards the end, essentially ending up in the poor house. I remember one interview in which Larry Scott discussed his proposal to hold a type of celebrity benefit function to raise some money to help Vince. I believe that, according to Scott, Clint Eastwood was all for it, but virtually everyone else couldn't be bothered.
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It's a shame that Vince lost almost everything towards the end, essentially ending up in the poor house. I remember one interview in which Larry Scott discussed his proposal to hold a type of celebrity benefit function to raise some money to help Vince. I believe that, according to Scott, Clint Eastwood was all for it, but virtually everyone else couldn't be bothered.
what a shame.. I could believe Clint Eastwood would have done it. Bob Kennedy in a phone conversation mentioned him. He told me Him and Vince had a disagreement and Vince threw him out...bob Kennedy told me Clint Eastwood waited outside a few times wanting to catch Vince asking to get back in. if this is true i don´t know but Bob Kennedy did say this to me.
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Vince gave credit, where credit was due. No social nicety compliments from him. He also said Leo Robert had the best set of abs, that he had ever seen.
leo robert
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Yes funk51, Leo Robert, Mr. Universe 1955.
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leo was from montreal . wonder if he is still with us . .
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8)
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:o
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They added iron to their liver supplements?
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another view of the spider curl bench
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another view bow the spider curl bench
Is that the one in the middle of the picture? I'm having difficulty trying to figure out what the contraption in the foreground is used for, and how it is used.
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Where was that last picture taken, Funk?
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Where was that last picture taken, Funk?
at the guys place who has most of vince's gym equipment, a guy on facebook david gironda sr [vince's sons name was guy] posts these pics to vince's facebook page.
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Is that the one in the middle of the picture? I'm having difficulty trying to figure out what the contraption in the foreground is used for, and how it is used.
erik the spider bench is in the foreground the other [scott] curl bench is behind it. it's strange viewing these pics in color because they came from a time when the world was gray... larry scott using the spider curl bench.
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;D
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;D
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erik the spider bench is in the foreground the other [scott] curl bench is behind it. it's strange viewing these pics in color because they came from a time when the world was gray... larry scott using the spider curl bench.
That looks really uncomfortable. Seems to me you could do spider curls rather easily by using the Scott Curl Bench in reverse.
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That looks really uncomfortable. Seems to me you could do spider curls rather easily by using the Scott Curl Bench in reverse.
That is what most do...
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That is what most do...
As do I. I'm just wondering why Gironda and for that matter Scott used this other Spider Curl Bench?
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As do I. I'm just wondering why Gironda and for that matter Scott used this other Spider Curl Bench?
very good question ...
http://aboutlifting.com/spider-curls-for-bigger-biceps-how-to-perform-spider-curls/
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very good question ...
http://aboutlifting.com/spider-curls-for-bigger-biceps-how-to-perform-spider-curls/
Maybe, back then, they thought that the isolation of the biceps, was easier to accomplish, with the Spider Bench. Still, I think that the isolation on the reverse Scott Curl Bench position, is simple enough, if you are paying attention to what you are doing.
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Maybe, back then, they thought that the isolation of the biceps, was easier to accomplish, with the Spider Bench. Still, I think that the isolation on the reverse Scott Curl Bench position, is simple enough, if you are paying attention to what you are doing.
yes i agree with you but if you look at his body position and pad/elbow position it was a great idea. Who can argue with Larry Scott´s biceps ? If i put a bench like this in our Gym no one would know what it is or used for never mind what a spider curl is... :o
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yes i agree with you but if you look at his body position and pad/elbow position it was a great idea. Who can argue with Larry Scott´s biceps ? If i put a bench like this in our Gym no one would know what it is or used for never mind what a spider curl is... :o
No arguing with Larry's biceps, for sure. Especially when he made them before he used roids. Always thought it was strange that his arms never got any larger after he started Dbol?
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No arguing with Larry's biceps, for sure. Especially when he made them before he used roids. Always thought it was strange that his arms never got any larger after he started Dbol?
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If these pictures are accurate that is up to debate but he did maintain great Guns until a good age...that then for me is in itself progress.
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larry got tired of weighing 215 lbs and reduced down to 180 than down to 168 lbs.
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larry got tired of weighing 215 lbs and reduced down to 180 than down to 168 lbs.
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Yes the picture of an older Larry Scott, is also a much lighter Larry Scott, so it appears that his guns increased in size, from his younger pictures. They didn't.
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a very unique exercise...
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Scott had long full Biceps and he used exercises to work on his strong point. really concentrating on Preacher curls ala "scott curls" and spider curls. does anyone have a picture of him doing say incline Dumbell curls?
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a very unique exercise...
Would love to introduce her to another 'unique exercise'...
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I am looking at the 3 positions Stretch,midrange,contracted... Spider curls hit it all in my opinion. Incline curls are more stretch.. a bit of midrange. Yes Vince and Scott knew their stuff...
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One thing to remember about Larry Scott's arm training is that he also did "Burns" on the Preacher and Spider moves. The bottom up "Burns" to just below a 90 degree curl, hits the Brachialis, but doesn't activate the Biceps at that point. Holding the contraction tight at that point for a good isometric 7 seconds, with a slow negative contraction down again, emphasizes the Brachialis. It isolates the Brachialis, even more than full hammer curls do, because the Biceps aren't involved. Since the Brachialis is under the Biceps, a bigger Brachialis muscle will raise the Biceps up higher, therefore creating a larger size arm, and creating the split Biceps look, too.
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One thing to remember about Larry Scott's arm training is that he also did "Burns" on the Preacher and Spider moves. The bottom up "burns" to just below a 90 degree curl, hits the Brachialis, but doesn't activate the Biceps at that point. Holding the contraction tight at that point for a good isometric 7 seconds, with a slow negative contraction down again, emphasizes the Brachialis. It isolates the Brachialis, even more than full hammer curls do, because the Biceps aren't involved. Since the Brachialis is under the Biceps, a bigger Brachialis muscle will raise the Biceps up higher, therefore creating a larger size arm, and creating the split Biceps look, too.
what is your opinion on wrist pronation and If you have tried "Drag" curls ? Drag curls with an overhand grip .. you sound like jpm101 ;)
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One thing to remember about Larry Scott's arm training is that he also did "Burns" on the Preacher and Spider moves. The bottom up "Burns" to just below a 90 degree curl, hits the Brachialis, but doesn't activate the Biceps at that point. Holding the contraction tight at that point for a good isometric 7 seconds, with a slow negative contraction down again, emphasizes the Brachialis. It isolates the Brachialis, even more than full hammer curls do, because the Biceps aren't involved. Since the Brachialis is under the Biceps, a bigger Brachialis muscle will raise the Biceps up higher, therefore creating a larger size arm, and creating the split Biceps look, too.
Scott personally discussed some of these ideas during his seminar that was taped in the 80's.
We had clips from the event posted in one of the Training board stickies.
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Scott personally discussed some of these ideas during his seminar that was taped in the 80's.
We had clips from the event posted in one of the Training board stickies.
Link?
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;D the weight isn't as important as the form in many exercises esp isolation types.
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;D the weight isn't as important as the form in many exercises esp isolation types.
I will stand by this claim.
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some more vg stuff
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::) oops sorry for the repeat liver quote.
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Don´t know if this has been posted..
http://de.slideshare.net/Diegobio2/vince-gironda-legend-and-myth
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Don´t know if this has been posted..
http://de.slideshare.net/Diegobio2/vince-gironda-legend-and-myth
good find 334 pages....... :D
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;D
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Don´t know if this has been posted..
http://de.slideshare.net/Diegobio2/vince-gironda-legend-and-myth
Didn't see that before. Thanks for posting it!
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;D
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;D
cool stuff funk bro ;D
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;D vg in the movies playing a personal trainer..... typecast. :D
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some intresting comments on the V Gironda:The Iron guru Facebook side Funky.. you mentioned it before yourself. A few on their writing about his Gym and training too.
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;D varation
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;D
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Hey Funk you ever try this...?? not for me.
http://www.ironguru.com/ab-trim-colon-cleansing-kit
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Hey Funk you ever try this...?? not for me.
http://www.ironguru.com/ab-trim-colon-cleansing-kit
no, i don't fool around with stuff like that, just try to eat as clean as possible. no trips to mcdonalds, burger king , pizza hut or foods of that ilk...
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Always confused here by one thing he wrote in I believe "Wild Physique".
I am quoting here but from Vince: "Water is a weight gain substance. Avoid trips to the water fountain during your workout"
NEVER understood that. In fact he mentioned in a couple times
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Always confused here by one thing he wrote in I believe "Wild Physique".
I am quoting here but from Vince: "Water is a weight gain substance. Avoid trips to the water fountain during your workout"
NEVER understood that. In fact he mentioned in a couple times
I think your memory is faulty. Vince said not to drink from water fountains, because you suck air into your stomach while drinking from them, as that can cause stomach and/or intestinal cramping during exercise.
You can gain water weight, by drinking water, duh! Thing is that you don't want to get too much water into your muscle cells when you exercise. Things such as carb loading (really glycogen loading), and creatine loading, plus drinking water, force water into your muscle cells. Think of your cells as balloons.
Fill a balloon with water just half way. Squeeze it. What happen? Nothing, it's flexible. Now fill the balloon to its max, and squeeze it again. What happens? It bursts! Don't confuse that with muscle tearing and muscle growth. When muscle cells burst in quantity, you just create protein mush, muscle cramps and bruising,(plus bad DOMS), in your intercellular spaces, that your lymphatic system has to work hard to clean up.
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I think your memory is faulty. Vince said not to drink from water fountains, because you suck air into your stomach while drinking from them, as that can cause stomach and/or intestinal cramping during exercise.
You can gain water weight, by drinking water, duh! Thing is that you don't want to get too much water into your muscle cells when you exercise. Things such as carb loading (really glycogen loading), and creatine loading, plus drinking water, force water into your muscle cells. Think of your cells as balloons.
Fill a balloon with water just half way. Squeeze it. What happen? Nothing, it's flexible. Now fill the balloon to its max, and squeeze it again. What happens? It bursts! Don't confuse that with muscle tearing and muscle growth. When muscle cells burst in quantity, you just create protein mush, muscle cramps and bruising,(plus bad DOMS), in your intercellular spaces, that your lymphatic system has to work hard to clean up.
makes sense now.. big thanks :)
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it was said that some days vince would close the day to men and have and all women's day...
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=466913.0;attach=606210;image)
Vince was quite the snazzy dresser.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=466913.0;attach=606210;image)
Vince was quite the snazzy dresser.
a real ladies man but he was in awe almost jealous of Reeves though.
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a real ladies man but he was in awe almost jealous of Reeves though.
it was said that he used to put stuffing in his coats to make his shoulders look wider...
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it was said that he used to put stuffing in his coats to make his shoulders look wider...
In them Days a lot of coats were padded in the shoulder area. i could believe it though. He was not really a guy who promoted Overhead presses but does show the bradford press in some illustrations. A good exercise.
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Not a big fan of behind the neck exercises but the Bradford press is constant tension ..for a free weight exercise.
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apparently a wrestler from the 80s who trained with Vince..
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^^ Ha, ha...
Yes, that's Hilbilly Jim himself!! I used to have his action figure when I was a little kid.
I'm happy you posted that photo! I'd seen in years ago, but had forgotten all about it until now!!
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Not a big fan of behind the neck exercises but the Bradford press is constant tension ..for a free weight exercise.
Good pectoral development (on the girl)...
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series of vg pics.
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;D
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;D
he was probably doing Zottman curls .. twisting as he came up. He wrote a lot about them. It´s an exercise you never see in lower arm training now...but an oldie but goldie ;)
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there ya go....
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for 1947 amazing!
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more vg, what happens in vince's gym on women's day, stays in...... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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more vg, what happens in vince's gym on women's day, stays in...... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
top pic ... is that Steve Reeves in the Picture that Vince is looking at ? not sure if they competed against each other.
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top pic ... is that Steve Reeves in the Picture that Vince is looking at ? not sure if they competed against each other.
no he never competed against reeves in a major contest as far as i know , the guy in pic is reg lewis i think it's from the 1957 mr usa contest...
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no he never competed against reeves in a major contest as far as i know , the guy in pic is reg lewis i think it's from the 1957 mr usa contest...
ok... never seen that pic before
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^^ Ha, ha...
Yes, that's Hilbilly Jim himself!! I used to have his action figure when I was a little kid.
I'm happy you posted that photo! I'd seen in years ago, but had forgotten all about it until now!!
Looks like another pic of him at Vince's...
(http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Wrestling/2008/03/23/hillbilly_swayze.jpg)
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Looks like another pic of him at Vince's...
(http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Wrestling/2008/03/23/hillbilly_swayze.jpg)
when hillbilly jim was doing that training on tv with hulk hogan they used aj petruzzi a jobber who lives a couple of towns over from me in jim thorpe pa. he still lives there he might have been a mayor or something.... he coached the teener league baseball team against my kids team back then....another wrestler from the area is gene snitsky lives the town over from thorpe...
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when hillbilly jim was doing that training on tv with hulk hogan they used aj petruzzi a jobber who lives a couple of towns over from me in jim thorpe pa. he still lives there he might have been a mayor or something.... he coached the teener league baseball team against my kids team back then....another wrestler from the area is gene snitsky lives the town over from thorpe...
I didn't realize either go those guys was still alive!!
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I didn't realize either go those guys was still alive!!
check out his wikepedia page a j petruzzi, he actually trained gene "it's not my fault"snitsky.. he was trained by tony altimore and wore a mask for some of his career...when i saw him in the the mid 90's he was really heavy and out of shape..
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I remember this team, w/ "Big Ron Shaw"! (In my best Vince voice).
"In 1988, he and Ron Shaw formed the Executioners".
Vince used to kill me on the mic "Raw Boned Swede Hansen"... 8)
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;D notice russ warner shirt buttons.
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larry got tired of weighing 215 lbs and reduced down to 180 than down to 168 lbs.
colorized versions.
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Great Pics Funk ;D
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;D
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Nice idea with the Hack squat machine
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vg older..
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vg older..
wow...that is a great pic.
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Larry deserves a mention on here... check out that scapular retraction on pulldowns ..
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was against squat they said but not quite . he was against very heavy . power squats . not good for bodybuilding . great exercice . but also lead to overtraining . squats are very severe exercice.
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mentzer bros vince's gym 1980.
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vg older..
Good face, but his chicken wing body looks like excrement
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;D
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new 400 page book about vince gironda 400 pages.=vincessecretlocker.com
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new 400 page book about vince gironda 400 pages.=vincessecretlocker.com
Have to check it out Funk
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new 400 page book about vince gironda 400 pages.=vincessecretlocker.com
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=466913.0;attach=665776;image)
Looks like a big but expensive book. Is this just a biography or does it contain all of Vince's writings?
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http://www.heartlandhealing.com/columns/Vince_Gironda/vince.gif
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http://www.heartlandhealing.com/columns/Vince_Gironda/vince.gif
You might be an asshole, but I always appreciated Vince's unorthodox views
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You might be an asshole, but I always appreciated Vince's unorthodox views
OK so i will take this as a positive post( with regards to Gironda ) 8)
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Stupid how they feel the need to distort him on the cover of that book. His physique was good enuff without that. I'm gonna check it out. I'll search Amazon but do u have any other links?
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-Probably posted this before, but Vince's gym in North Hollywood was only a few miles east of where I grew up. Never did go there though.
Vince trained some well know actors. Some of them didn't stick with his teachings it would seem. A couple of fellows that come to mind are Robert Blake and Erik Estrada. below are some before and after photos of them.
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:)
same effect as an off set Dumbbell ala Reeves...great minds think alike...
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had to put it here as well all things vince gironda.
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V Bar dips
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;D
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A bit tricky at first but very effective..
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:)
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A bit tricky at first but very effective..
that's how i do them but without the bridge,don't want to aggravate the lower back
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that's how i do them but without the bridge,don't want to aggravate the lower back
yes...this has been posted before but shows Vince and Kay Baxter.
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;D time to close the gym for the day.
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I love those eighties girls, since they had no cellphones or 'social' media
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vince and some of the hollywood crowd.
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$20 says he drilled that little blond hottie front row, center!
;D
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:)
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:)
http://bodybuilding-mauritius.blogspot.de/2013/08/vince-girondas-blueprint-for-bodybuilder.html
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:)
http://bodybuilding-mauritius.blogspot.de/2013/08/vince-girondas-blueprint-for-bodybuilder.html
good link donny ;D ;D ;D ;D vg with anibal lopez and vince's personal doctor..
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8)
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8)
:)
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;D
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;)
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https://de.scribd.com/doc/48936045/Vince-Gironda-Master-Series-Course
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;D
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anyone ever heard this?
http://www.ironguru.com/gironda-talks-audio-seminar
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anyone ever heard this?
http://www.ironguru.com/gironda-talks-audio-seminar
not really, i wonder if they advertised it in the old weider mags.like mr america or muscle builder. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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not really, i wonder if they advertised it in the old weider mags.like mr america or muscle builder. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
There have been pictures of Uncle Joe and Gironda together when it suited them... ;D
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There have been pictures of Uncle Joe and Gironda together when it suited them... ;D
gironda did a series of articles running down jones' nautilus equipment in mber.probably because weider was still pushing his barbells and gironda didn't want to outfit his gym in costly machines.
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vg using the moon bench
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Funk51 has it right on.
Gironda's gym was a pretty small place to begin with (so I've been told by older gentleman who actually trained there). The original Nautilus machines took up a lot of floor space and Gironda wanted to keep most of the equipment he deigned and built himself. Not enough for both. Nautilus was also extremely expensive at the time. Most newer versions are more compact.
Had been rumored that Gironda was thinking of retiring around that time anyway. Don't believe he owned that 2 story building (been told, might be wrong) on Ventura Blvd. .
Weider could give Gironda a certain amount of cash (contract usually) to plug his products. But at that time, Weider was making much on his "supplements" than on equipment.
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vg using the moon bench
Make it more narrow and you have a great incline bench with a good spine support
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Familiar with the half moon bench.
Original design was for pullovers (straight arm) to stretch the chest/rib box and also the lat's. Also gave a good feel to the spine, seemed to give better flexibility. Of course lots of other movements on it. Presses (like inclines), fly's, delts, biceps, etc..
I usually go to college or sports complexes, but sure some Moon benches are still used..somewhere. Can be very functional for some of us. Could use a heavier exercise ball, getting a stretch something like the original Moon bench. Seen both men and women do that.
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Funk51 has it right on.
Gironda's gym was a pretty small place to begin with (so I've been told by older gentleman who actually trained there). The original Nautilus machines took up a lot of floor space and Gironda wanted to keep most of the equipment he deigned and built himself. Not enough for both. Nautilus was also extremely expensive at the time. Most newer versions are more compact.
Had been rumored that Gironda was thinking of retiring around that time anyway. Don't believe he owned that 2 story building (been told, might be wrong) on Ventura Blvd. .
Weider could give Gironda a certain amount of cash (contract usually) to plug his products. But at that time, Weider was making much on his "supplements" than on equipment.
weider recognized early on that the real money was in supplements.... barbells once you bought them that's it the end of it sure you add a few plates here and there, but supplements you were told to use everyday... a constant need giving weider a constant cash flow from the same customers. pick up a muscle mag now it's all supplements barely 3-4 pages of equipment or barbells.
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:D
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Great pictures Funk51.
One of my all time favorite exercises is the bent arm pullover, prefer an Olympic bar but have gotten good results with DB's also. Straight arm pullovers (Olympic, single DB or EZ bar) are also an excellent movement, but not going to handle near the weight, nor the full stretch, than with the bent arm version.
Bent arm pullovers (BB or DB)combined with presses off the chest, the pullover & press, is a prime mass builder. Hitting all the major muscle groups, including the abs, of the upper body. Want a wider lat spread, than might suggest the pullover, just about any version.
If below the 24 to 25 age (mean average) limit, than the cartilage between the ribs themselves are still in a plastic stage, where they can be stretched out a bit before advancing age has them more fixed. Old timers knew the value of the pullover (any version) and the affect it had on chest growth. A 46" chest can look good, but adding a couple more inches through rib box expansion , gives a even more impressive look at 48" is even better. The Half Moon/Moon bench has been ideal for that.
Good Luck
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;)
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...
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Competing under Steve's eyes
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Competing under Steve's eyes
good find never saw this pic before...
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Not a big physique, but a big brain for sure. ;)
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the latest book on vince two volume set.
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:)
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:)
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:D
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before & after
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vince and some of the hollywood crowd.
doug mcclure!
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8)
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Vince vs Vince
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He had great methods for isolating target muscles, as well as the proper nutrition for both muscle growth and fat burning. And he was living proof that his methods worked!
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Bump. Possibly the best thread ever on this site. Should be read by all...and reread frequently.
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....
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;)
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This is all great stuff. Vince was a great believer in Milk and Egg protein, dessicated liver tablets, and amino acid tabs. He also recommended eggs. I believe Ron Kosloff sells the same supplements Vince recommended. Vince wrote a number of booklets and the book BUILDING THE WILD PHYSIQUE. He favored the trim athletic physique rather than the overdeveloped traps touching ears physique. He admired Reeves very much. Back in the 80's Bob Green wrote a number of articles in Muscle Mag and Iron Man where he interviewed Vince. Great reading.
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:)
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at 45
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In my own training, I have been working on keeping my nutrition much more focused for physique purposes. The main source I consult on this is Vince Gironda.
Last year I put on a little too much fat on the waistline in my gaining season. I'm on the tall side with thinner limbs, so I thought it would be OK to go sloppy with "dirty bulking" including pizza and burgers a few times a week just for the sake of putting on weight and getting stronger faster. Not a great idea!
For the last few months, I have stuck strictly to a meal plan based on Gironda's fat-burning diets; extreme low-carb on most days, with a carb-up meal every three to four days. And I have gotten great results from this. Old-school methods really work! For the next month or so I am going with something closer to Gironda's "maintenance diet."
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:)
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What was Vince height/weight?
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What was Vince height/weight?
http://www.greatestphysiques.com/vince-gironda/
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http://www.greatestphysiques.com/vince-gironda/
Wow!!
I've never seen this site before. Thanks for sharing!
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http://www.greatestphysiques.com/vince-gironda/
thanks for the link, i've never seen this site either
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This is a great post, I went to Vince's gym once with Larry Scott when I was working for Larry. Larry told me some great stories about things that went on at the gym and credited Vince with the vast amount of training knowledge that he had.
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:)
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Joe, Vince and Larry
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Joe, Vince and Larry
R.I.P., all three.
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VINCE'S CORNER:
STYLES OF TRAINING EFFORT.
The Iron Guru, Vince Gironda, has incorporated different styles of training throughout his career. Lights weights with high reps, Heavy weights with Low reps, Heavy weights with high reps and so on. He came to the conclusion that ultimately using Heavy weights with High reps was the most beneficial for making progress in the Gym.
This conclusion, in my estimation, has two benefits:
1) The feel of heavy weights, besides encouraging muscle growth, makes the bodybuilder feel like he is accomplishing something in his training. The heavy poundages makes the muscle become stronger and stronger as the poundage is increased over time.
The increases in poundage also causes what Vince called Hyper-trophy to the muscles which is something we all strive for in every training session we go through..
2) The Heavy weights with High reps tear down tissues at a faster rate which is needed for muscular size.
With all the different styles of training, the bodybuilder needed to use heavier and heavier weights in order to use progressive resistance training in his workouts, this according to Vince.
I believe Vince was the originator of the phase, Progressive Resistance training.
The other part of the equation is the repetition phase. Higher reps in your training are essential to cause the muscles to pump in order to increase its blood supply to the tissues. The higher the reps the more capillaries are build which in turn feeds the muscle and increases its size. According to Gironda, the added capillaries can increase the muscle beyond its genetic potential.
Another of Vince's particular style of training in his Gym dealt with the Intensity Factor. Less rest between sets, increase in Tempo when working out, pushing yourself to do your workouts faster and faster, and progressive increases in weights was very important to the Iron Guru too.
All of these styles of training had one trait in common: To increase one's Pump, build capillaries to feed the muscles and increase its size.
There were other variables in training that Vince also considered, such as the idea that certain exercises required Maximum Intensity like the Hack squat, Neck Presses, body drag curls etc. While other movements required less intensity like chinning, dipping, Flys etc.
In conclusion, there are many styles of training that Vince Gironda advocated in his Gym. Heavy with low reps, Light with High reps and finally Heavy weights with Heavy reps. Try any one of these to find what works best for you and give Gironda's different training methods a try.
Credits
Vince Gironda.
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With credit to Ironat:
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=670148.0;attach=1287018;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=670148.0;attach=1287020;image)
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This post deserves a place in this thread:
MEAT, EGG AND WATER DIET
By Vince Gironda
During the forty years I’ve been a bodybuilder seeking greater muscle size and delineation, I have experimented with every imaginable diet combination. While training to win the “Worlds Most Muscular Man” title. I devised a diet that gave me maximum muscle size with almost zero body fat. It was what I call the “steak-and-eggs diet.”
Steak and eggs have always been an athlete’s favorite meal, because no other food combination gives you the same feeling of power and energy. Beef and eggs sustain a high-normal blood sugar level for up to six hours, which makes lunch unnecessary when you’re dieting and training for muscular definition. And three-quarter pounds of steak and three eggs provide over 100 grams of first-class protein.
Hamburger is not a good substitute for streak in this diet, by the way. The grinding of the meat destroys enzymes and other important nutrients. As a result, ground beef simply doesn’t measure up to other cuts of meat for building muscle tissue.
Surprisingly, some of the less expensive cuts of meat – like chuck and round steak – are higher in protein and lower in fat content than sirloin steak or fillet mignon.
The first time I tried the steak-and-egg diet, I stayed on it for nine months. I ate only two meals per day, each consisting of three-quarter pounds of steak and three eggs. At the evening meal, I also had a small, mixed green salad. I used no supplements whatsoever, and noticed no adverse effects as a result of this.
I achieved the best condition of my career on this diet. After nine months of contest dieting and training, I noticed that I was actually growing, not just maintaining maximum muscularity.
I know many of you will protest that this is an unbalanced diet and that there is too much cholesterol in the beef and eggs. According to recent findings in the National Egg Council, the human body produces far more cholesterol that it needs. And if you ingest more cholesterol that it needs, your body cuts back it’s own production to maintain a natural, balanced level.
Medial researchers are now concluding that stress is the major cause of abnormally high cholesterol levels in some individuals. Also, a high level of sugar in the diet tends to force the cholesterol level upward.
Actually, cholesterol is essential for the proper functioning of the human body. The brain requires it for normal function, and when you go out in the sun, cholesterol under the skin is converted into Vitamin D. Cholesterol also helps protect the body during cases of severe injury, because it acts as a sort of glue to stop bleeding in the traumatized areas.
In actual fact, cholesterol is not the culprit in heart and vascular disease. Instead, the villains are triglycerides, which are entirely different forms of fat.
Fat is essential in the human diet. Steffanson – in his book, Not By Brad Alone – mentions that during 18 years he lived among the Eskimos, they existed solely on meat and fat. Meat alone could not sustain them. Eskimos have been known to track a caribou for up to two weeks just to get the fat in the animal’s carcass.
Fat is the best source of energy known in that it yields nine calories per gram, as compared to only four grams or carbohydrate. Fat will sustain a high blood sugar level for up to six hours, while carbohydrates keep the blood sugar up for only 1 1/2 hours or so.
If you fear the calories in fat, keep in mind that fat is a lipotropic (a fat emulsifier), the same a vegetable oils. In other words, fat actually helps to burn fat in the body!
I think the real secret in the steak-and-eggs diet is the compatibility of beef and eggs, which confirm the “non mixed meal” dietary plan. protein and carbohydrates are not compatible, since they are digested in different mediums (acid for protein, alkaline for carbohydrates).
When protein and carbohydrates are consumed together, neither digests completely. The food that is predominant in the stomach then takes precedence. If protein dominates, for example, the carbohydrates tend to ferment and produce gas and toxic (poisonous) byproducts. And if larger amounts of carbohydrates are ingested, they can cause the meat to putrefy, preventing proper digestion.
Another reason why the steak-and-eggs diet contributes to faster muscle growth is that the amino acid composition of beef and eggs is almost identical to that of human tissue. As a result, animal proteins are much easier to synthesize into human muscle tissue that are vegetable proteins.
I’ve often stated that 200-300 grams of protein per day in an athlete’s diet is excessive. I contend that your body will let you know when you’re getting more protein than you need – you’ll lose your desire for meat. Then you should give your digestive system a rest from animal protein by eating raw, steamed vegetables and salads for a few days.
You’ll know when to return to eating meat by the hunger you develop for it. Actual protein requirements are an individual matter. Such requirements depend on body structure, sex, age, activity levels and physiological capacity.
If you have been at a sticking point for a while, try my steak-and-egg diet for three meals per day. You should also take digestive enzymes, 1500-2000 mg. of Vitamin C, 400-800 units of Vitamin E and a phosphorous free calcium supplement each day. These supplements ensure that your body is receiving all the nutrients necessary for growth.
By combining this diet with eight hours of sound sleep per night and a positive mental outlook, you will experience a good spurt of muscle growth. And with steak and eggs, your added size will be 100% solid muscle tissue.
"Remember that nutrition is 90%; exercise is 10%."
- Vince Gironda
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Heavy weights with high reps?
Never understand this. I guess it means working with as much as you can for 8-12 reps.
At reps of 8-12 you are using likely 60-70% of max.
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https://www.vincessecretlocker.com/
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umm ok ::)