The Adonis Diet Principles, Open-Source

[shiftedShapes]

Interesting. Would you agree to P1-P4 and M1-M5 (being myths) or would you change/add anything?

ok let me see:

The Principles, rules that must be followed:

P1) minimum daily protein intake of 1g/lb lean body weight,
P2) variety of food good enough for proper nutrient intake (e.g. follow USRDA),
P3) deficiency of calories which leads to 1-3 lbs of weight loss per week,
P4) hard weight training at least 3 times a week.

The Myths, factors of minimal, no, or even negative influence:

M1) ratio of macro nutrients other than defined by P1 and P2,
M2) abandonment of alcohol,
M3) intake of "supplements",
M4) proper spacing of meals during the day,
M5) cardio training.

I agree with the myths, though I can't comment on M2 because for the most part I don't like to drink and I think that M3 applies to protein supps as well (maybe multi-vitamins are ok, don't know their impact as I have not done the research).  You already know I don't agree with P1 (especially in diet mode).  P2-P4 seem ok though I would change a few things.  So I would rewrite P3 and P4 as follows:

P3) intake of calories which leads to desired weight loss or gain,
P4) hard anaerobic resistance training at least 3 times a week.

[wavelength]

ok let me see:

I agree with the myths, though I can't comment on M2 because for the most part I don't like to drink and I think that M3 applies to protein supps as well (maybe multi-vitamins are ok, don't know their impact as I have not done the research).  You already know I don't agree with P1 (especially in diet mode).  P2-P4 seem ok though I would change a few things.  So I would rewrite P3 and P4 as follows:

P3) intake of calories which leads to desired weight loss or gain,
P4) hard anaerobic resistance training at least 3 times a week.

OK, good points.

Regarding P1: on my next diet, I will try a lower protein intake, but still above 0.5g/lb lean mass, since this limit I have already determined.

Regarding M3: Yes of course, all supplements are included. M3 does not say that all supplements are evil, it just says that they are not necessary. I chose to use protein supplementation only to make P1 easier, but I could do the same thing with solid food. I quit the multivitamins a few weeks into the diet, I'm sure I can do the same and better with fruits, vegetables, meat, etc.

Regarding P3, I defined a range because I think less than 1lb will probably not be desired by anyone on a diet and more than 3lb will lead to increased muscle loss (which by definition is not desired by a bodybuilder). That's at least my experience.

Regarding P4, You're right, I changed it.

[tbombz]

When you say "from personal experience", have you actually tried to diet down with

- P2-P4 met and P1 at significantly above 1 g/lb of lean body mass, compared to
- P2-P4 met and P1 at exactly 1 g/lb of lean body mass?

Two seperate diets of equal caloric value, but one has a higher % of animal proteins than the other diet ? 

The diet with higher & animal proteins will ALWAYS result in a leaner, more muscular body. And it will do so in a shorter amount of time than the other diet.

You can not deny the effects certain foods have on hormones, metabolism, thermogenesis, protein synthesis, ect ect ect.

Proteins = Fat loss food. 

[shiftedShapes]

Regarding P3, I defined a range because I think less than 1lb will probably not be desired by anyone on a diet and more than 3lb will lead to increased muscle loss (which by definition is not desired by a bodybuilder). That's at least my experience.

I just suggested that change because I think that these principles also apply to someone who is in a maintenance phase or trying to gain weight slowly.

[wavelength]

I just suggested that change because I think that these principles also apply to someone who is in a maintenance phase or trying to gain weight slowly.

That, I'm actually trying to find out when I'm 'done' with the diet. For now, I can only tell that it works for dieting down at the proposed rate. But I'm pretty sure, you are right.

[wavelength]

Two seperate diets of equal caloric value, but one has a higher % of animal proteins than the other diet ? 

The diet with higher & animal proteins will ALWAYS result in a leaner, more muscular body. And it will do so in a shorter amount of time than the other diet.

You can not deny the effects certain foods have on hormones, metabolism, thermogenesis, protein synthesis, ect ect ect.

Proteins = Fat loss food. 

I can deny everything that a certain scientific paper says when it goes against my experience. Different scientific papers go against each other in nutrition science all the time. It's not an exact science because there are just too many (partly unknown) factors. If what you say was true, a diet consisting of protein only, would be the best. You will certainly agree that that's not the case.

[mazrim]

I can deny everything that a certain scientific paper says when it goes against my experience. Different scientific papers go against each other in nutrition science all the time. It's not an exact science because there are just too many (partly unknown) factors. If what you say was true, A diet consisting of protein only, would be the best. You will certainly agree that that's not the case.

I think that most science actually agrees with your case. You get no more benefit for fat loss purposes going low carb, etc. over a balanced diet in those I've seen.

[wavelength]

OK, as suggested by technokc (and indirectly by deicide), I want to add a fifth principle about the daily hours of sleep. In my experience, 6 hours are enough for the purpose of the diet. Since I want to define a minimum number that can be applied to the majority of people, I would like some input from other users.

I still want to call them the Adonis principles, so I would also like Adonis to weigh in here, to confirm the necessity resp. minimum number for such a rule.

[wavelength]

Bump for feedback on my last post.

[shiftedShapes]

dude is that your back in the avatar?  conditioning looks spot on...can you post full size?

[Fatpanda]

it depends on the job they do i would say. 6 hours is fine for students, but people with real jobs might need more.

[wavelength]

dude is that your back in the avatar?  conditioning looks spot on...can you post full size?

Thanks!
All my pics in my General/Picture thread.

[wavelength]

it depends on the job they do i would say. 6 hours is fine for students, but people with real jobs might need more.

Well I have a real job and it seems to be enough for me. I like to get 8h but have not seen any problems with the diet when sleeping only 6h. Below that though, my workouts / recovery get affected.

[The True Adonis]

I am VERY proud to see this as an open-source type discussion/revision of the Adonis principles.  This is exactly as I intended.

[The True Adonis]

I don`t think sleep becomes a huge factor as most people get enough sleep over time, unless someone is a chronic insomniac.  5-8 hours should be enough.  Also, even just laying down, reading or relaxing is beneficial and conducive to count as rest.

[wavelength]

I don`t think sleep becomes a huge factor as most people get enough sleep over time, unless someone is a chronic insomniac.  5-8 hours should be enough.  Also, even just laying down, reading or relaxing is beneficial and conducive to count as rest.

Thanks a lot, that's what I was thinking.

I would again like to define a minimum which could be applied to just about everyone (if possible). Do you name a range because of individual differences or because of daily differences (e.g. depending on the activities during that day)?

[The True Adonis]

Question for TA:

If you wanted to lose weight, where would you set your caloric intake at initially?

12 cals/pound? More? Less?

Also, would you set it a XX cals/pound of ideal weight, or XX cals/pound of current bodyweight, or perhaps XX cals/pound lean bodyweight.

Gotta admit -- the ideas here are really intriguing. Precedent setting stuff, I think. Wonder if it'll catch on.

I would start with 12-14 per current Bodyweight,  and run it straight through.  Obviously the longer adherence the greater the result. The ABSOLUTE lowest to go with calories should be 9 calories per bodyweight.  Keep in mind that you should not at all have to go this low.  Patience is a big factor in this.  Most people think they have hit a sticking point, when in fact it is not the case at all.  Running 11-12 all the way through should be sufficient to get EXTREMELY ripped.

Also, every 1-2 months or so, adjust your figures to reflect your current bodyweight.   So for example, if I weigh 180 lbs from the start I would then be eating about 2160. 2 months later, lets say I weigh 170 so lets adjust it to 2040.

You may not have to adjust it at all if you are progressing just fine.  Play it be body and sight.

[wavelength]

I am VERY proud to see this as an open-source type discussion/revision of the Adonis principles.  This is exactly as I intended.

Thanks, that's how I see it. The 'revised' was just meant as 'revised' through our discussions in the preceding threads, of course. It was not meant as my revision to your principles. I will change the name of the thread to "The Adonis Diet Principles, Open-Source".

[The True Adonis]

Question for TA:

If you wanted to lose weight, where would you set your caloric intake at initially?

12 cals/pound? More? Less?

Also, would you set it a XX cals/pound of ideal weight, or XX cals/pound of current bodyweight, or perhaps XX cals/pound lean bodyweight.

Gotta admit -- the ideas here are really intriguing. Precedent setting stuff, I think. Wonder if it'll catch on.

As for catching on, I  think most people are really too ignorant when it comes to "nutritionism".  They demonize foods for no reason other than ignorance via misinformation, cultural myth and norms as well as mislabeling foods as "good" and "bad".

People are stupid and fearful for the most part.

[The True Adonis]

The ideas will catch on quicker if you answer my question!

j/k.

But seriously, inquiring minds want to know. I'm game -- I'm giving this a test run for a full month. No deviations. Just need to know where to start.

Thanks in advance TA.

Scroll up a few posts.

[The True Adonis]

Scroll up a few posts.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=232398.msg3284269#msg3284269

[shiftedShapes]

Aas well as mislabeling foods as "good" and "bad".

most people are very stupid, they require this sort of shortcut, expecting them to count calories over the course of a week let a lone a day is completely unreasonable.

[The True Adonis]

most people are very stupid, they require this sort of shortcut, expecting them to count calories over the course of a week let a lone a day is completely unreasonable.

If people cannot add up to 2000, then something is seriously the matter with them.

[shiftedShapes]

If people cannot add up to 2000, then something is seriously the matter with them.

Even adding to 100 is all but impossible for many of these normals and sub-normals.

At many fast food establishments the register displays pictorially to the cashiers the change that they must give.

 

[wavelength]

OK, I would like to add a fifth principle for the amount of sleep needed. According to TA's post, I would put it that way:

P5) 5-8 hours of sleep per day, depending on individual requirements.

I think this makes it clear that 8h are sufficient for everyone, while due to individual differences, 5h may also be sufficient for some people. Any objections?