Police State - Official Thread

[Dos Equis]

Oh brother.  What an idiot.  She was asking for a confrontation.  She needed to stay outside for "fresh air," while taping some guy being arrested?    

[sync pulse]

Why would anyone object to being photographed?...If you are doing nothing wrong,...why be afraid?...

[Hugo Chavez]

lol @ Beach Bum...

[Agnostic007]

Why would anyone object to being photographed?...If you are doing nothing wrong,...why be afraid?...

This would apply to red light cameras, police cameras in high crime areas... and yes I agree, why would anyone object. I didn't hear the officer though mention anything about objecting to being filmed. It was her close proximity presence while they conducted their business that concerned him. While I didn't share his concern from my computer desk, I don't think it was the filming

[Soul Crusher]

What the cop shuld have said is


"Mam - here is what is happeneing, we arrested the suspect for ____, he is being brought to the station for booking, this isthe procedure, I dont mind you filming us, but can you please just step back a bit as there may be some hostilities if the suspect tries to escape or flee" 

[Agnostic007]

I disagree on all fronts... I don't think you should just go around randomly filming people in general, however, as the police state grows, the premise of having footage of the police during the course of their work is probably one of the more invaluable things the citizens have in their arsenal.

I think that filming me at the stop light and everything else is pretty much fascist... but I'm John Q. Public and I don't get to take away liberty without any repercussion like the police do. If I take away your freedom wrongly, even if I believe it's for the best of intentions, I get charged with a crime... I believe it's a felony as well.

Cops just get to say "Oh, I'm sorry, and move on."

So the idea of filming the public and filming a public servant (That is what you are right?) is not the same.

No, I agree it is not the same. What I do should be available to the public. I have nothing to hide. If you can safely film me, have at it. Hell, I'm usually filming myself with video in the car and a mic on my shirt.

As far as filming you running a red light...the camera only snaps shots of people busting a red light. When you bust that red light you could and often do kill me and others.. so if you're feelings are hurt getting your picture taken running a red light..tough sh*t ya know?

[Agnostic007]

What the cop shuld have said is


"Mam - here is what is happeneing, we arrested the suspect for ____, he is being brought to the station for booking, this isthe procedure, I dont mind you filming us, but can you please just step back a bit as there may be some hostilities if the suspect tries to escape or flee" 

and she would have said "why? I'm just getting fresh air, I'm in my yard, "

Then what would you say?

[Soul Crusher]

and she would have said "why? I'm just getting fresh air, I'm in my yard, "

Then what would you say?

Maybe, maybe not.   But when you start the conversation in an adversarial way, like most cops i have dealt with do, you get a predictable reaction from the person paying your salary and pension.   

[Agnostic007]

Maybe, maybe not.   But when you start the conversation in an adversarial way, like most cops i have dealt with do, you get a predictable reaction from the person paying your salary and pension.   

Trust me, she would have said it.. he was professional and he asked her nicely. She was going to be stubborn no matter what he said... so then what?

[sync pulse]

When the social neocons put up red light and survellience cameras they use the trite saying,.."If you are doing nothing wrong..." to justify it.  Turnabout is fairplay...

[Agnostic007]

When the social neocons put up red light and survellience cameras they use the trite saying,.."If you are doing nothing wrong..." to justify it.  Turnabout is fairplay...

agreed...whatever neocons are....

[Agnostic007]

Aren't you basically stating that you absolutely knew what was going to happen?

isn't that perpetuating the us vs. them mentality?

Not at all... I've been in similar situations over the course of a couple decades hundreds of times.. there are always exceptions but it's been my experience that people like that, and when I say "like that..' I mean those who for whatever reason have decided they are going to ignore the cop and continue doing what they want, rarely change course until arrest is upon them or has occurred. Often times new cops will spend ungodly amounts of time trying to talk to these people mistakenly thinking "if only I explain my side, they will understand and comply" not realizing some people aren't rational.

For example, 25 yrs ago I may have spent a lot of time trying to explain to you why there is a difference with an officer in uniform at a burglary call and a citizen with a gun.. But my experience told me it would be a complete waste of time.

Often times we get 1 yr law students, or someone who listened to the wrong person and they mistakenly feel they have the right to do something when in fact they don't. Rather than do as they are ask, then complain later, they feel compelled to stay their ground, regardless of what the cop says. For example, we are called to a home because the wife is being beat by her husband. Wife is bleeding and crying. Officers can see and hear her while they are standing on the porch, with the husband standing in the doorway saying "You can't come in, I know my rights, you don't have a search warrant!"

Well, he is right, we don't have a search warrant. He is wrong in that we don't need one in this case.. But you can't tell him that...he knows the law. 

[Dos Equis]

When the social neocons put up red light and survellience cameras they use the trite saying,.."If you are doing nothing wrong..." to justify it.  Turnabout is fairplay...

How do you define a social neocon?

[sync pulse]

Some one who is in favor of routine survellience of daily life fits here,...red light cameras, video survellience of public places, prohibition of marijuana, prohibition of Docotor's supervision of steroid cycles...

[Dos Equis]

Some one who is in favor of routine survellience of daily life fits here,...red light cameras, video survellience of public places, prohibition of marijuana, prohibition of Docotor's supervision of steroid cycles...

Thanks.  Never heard that before. 

We chased the van cams out of here. 

[Agnostic007]

Doesn't seem like a good comparison, only because of course it's visible by the officers at the door.
The comparison is good because in both cases the person was wrong about their knowledge of existing laws

None the less, I don't agree with the "I know this is what would happen." in any scenario... people can, will, and have done what you don't expect.

You are kind of right. She could have responded by pulling out an uzi or hand grenade or she could have went inside when the officer again explained the situation. If you recall, he had already explained his position. But based on similar situations in the past, the outcome can be predicted with reasonable accuracy. 

This is why people feel they can convict people based on belief and not fact... Innocent people going to jail.

Sorry, you lost me there..

[Soul Crusher]

Funny you have not commented on my ATF thread.   

[Agnostic007]

Funny you have not commented on my ATF thread.   

haven't read it. If I read every thread you posted I'd be unemployed 

[Agnostic007]

Funny you have not commented on my ATF thread.   

I looked over the thread, watched a couple of the videos, what do you want to know?

[Soul Crusher]

I looked over the thread, watched a couple of the videos, what do you want to know?

What is your thought on that and do you accept that the fact that stories like this greatly undermine any respect whatsoever for law enforcement?

[Agnostic007]

What is your thought on that and do you accept that the fact that stories like this greatly undermine any respect whatsoever for law enforcement?

Based on just what I read on your thread it looks like someone probably had good intentions, i.e. they are going to get the guns regardless of whether we arrest someone for buying 5 or not, so lets let them operate, follow the supply line, then bring down the big fish.

This method is used daily when dealing with drugs and suppliers. Why arrest for a kilo when you can arrest for 2,000 kilos.

In hindsight and possibly forsight it wasn't well thought out. Were basic questions asked? How many guns do we plan on letting go through? How long will we continue this operation? What is the realistic outcome of taking this risk? What is the best case scenario, what is the worst case scenario?

As far as undermining respect for law enforcement and calling for all agencies to be done away with as you have called for, I think that;

1. Government agencies are accountable for their actions and should be held accountable. That doesn't happen all that often and its a shame. but most americans are sheeple and "scandals" are forgotten when the next season of American Idol airs. When errors like this are made, heads should roll if the facts support it.

2. The ATF and many Govt Agencies do an overall great job and the call for doing away with them is ridiculous and ill informed.     

[Soul Crusher]

Based on just what I read on your thread it looks like someone probably had good intentions, i.e. they are going to get the guns regardless of whether we arrest someone for buying 5 or not, so lets let them operate, follow the supply line, then bring down the big fish.

This method is used daily when dealing with drugs and suppliers. Why arrest for a kilo when you can arrest for 2,000 kilos.

In hindsight and possibly forsight it wasn't well thought out. Were basic questions asked? How many guns do we plan on letting go through? How long will we continue this operation? What is the realistic outcome of taking this risk? What is the best case scenario, what is the worst case scenario?

As far as undermining respect for law enforcement and calling for all agencies to be done away with as you have called for, I think that;

1. Government agencies are accountable for their actions and should be held accountable. That doesn't happen all that often and its a shame. but most americans are sheeple and "scandals" are forgotten when the next season of American Idol airs. When errors like this are made, heads should roll if the facts support it.

2. The ATF and many Govt Agencies do an overall great job and the call for doing away with them is ridiculous and ill informed.     

Are you kidding?  Good intentions?   Fucking really?   

[Agnostic007]

Are you kidding?  Good intentions?   Fucking really?    

Absolutley.

Fact... Drug cartels are getting drugs through no matter what we do
Fact... Drug cartels are getting access to guns no matter what we do

Letting some drugs through to catch bigger dealers is a tactic used every day. A cop will not arrest for a small amount, follow the trail up the ladder and when they have the bigger fish, they make the arrest. The impact is far greater than if they arrested the street dealer.

They were applying that tactic to guns. I don't think their reasoning was "Hey lets let them get a lot of guns so they can kill our agents". It was, lets allow the small fry to buy guns for the cartels and stop the flow at the top......

I could be wrong and it could be a huge dirty ugly conspiracy to destroy america as we know it...

But it's more likely a bad idea with good intentions that went really bad  

[Soul Crusher]

Good intentions my ass.   GMAFB.   Good intentions.      

Yeah, give a 5 y/o a loaded gun hoping the kid will learn gun safety and after it blows its head off tell the judge and jury - "but we didnt mean for him to kill himself"


Fucking please.  these disgusting pieces of trash with badges were playing russian roulette with others lives to fozster their own sick agenda and now people are dead.   Fuck that good intentions. 

 

[Agnostic007]

Good intentions my ass.   GMAFB.   Good intentions.      

Yeah, give a 5 y/o a loaded gun hoping the kid will learn gun safety and after it blows its head off tell the judge and jury - "but we didnt mean for him to kill himself"


Fucking please.  these disgusting pieces of trash with badges were playing russian roulette with others lives to fozster their own sick agenda and now people are dead.   Fuck that good intentions. 

 

Ok I'll play... what were their intentions?