what was the arnold/mentzer confrontation about at the 80 olympia?

[TheGoldenPrince]

Here is your crybaby being destroyed by Zane's conditioning in 1979.

Haha, epic size on Zane; why not show Susie Curry ripped next to Mike though and hand her a SAndow?

[gibberj2]

Haha? how many olympias have you won?

[pumpster]

His dogmatic assumption that it's all about intensity and not volume IS WRONG. A certain amount of volume is still predominantly anerobic and necessary for hypertrophy. Muscles want work. Too much intensity leaves your nervous system taxed.

Agreed, moderation between the two extremes makes more sense and is less taxing. Even a HIT proponent like Viator believed in the advantages of pre-contest volume training, for the refinement it provided.

Mentzer was always overrated to some extent-he just didn't have that much refinement to warrant the hype that he himself believed. Zane looks a lot better other than the size difference. Mentzer didn't even have a decent tan; all those little things add up.

[TheGoldenPrince]

Agreed, moderation between the two extremes makes more sense and is less taxing. Even a HIT proponent like Viator believed in the advantages of pre-contest volume training, for the refinement it provided.

Mentzer was always overrated to some extent-he just didn't have that much refinement to warrant the hype that he himself believed. Zane looks a lot better other than the size difference. Mentzer didn't even have a decent tan; all those little things add up.

Not true in '80; maybe in '79 but not the following year.

[TheGoldenPrince]

No obvious advantage over Arnold. That it was fixed is another story.

LMAO, no obvious advantage over toothpicks legs and narrow framed Arnold?

[TheGoldenPrince]

Silly. He was placed 5th. Blind as a bat and far the best?

Here's your boy getting owned again by zane

Hahaha, getting owned by an undersized Zane with tricep tilted toward the camera, thus lending an illusion of greater cuts? I don't buy it but nice try to discredit Mentzer, the rightful winner of da Sandow that day, kiddo.

[TheGoldenPrince]

Why does everyone think Mentzer is such a BB'ing martyr?

He is a pioneer of nothing but drivel.

He endorses Power Factor Training, by Sisco and Little, what a joke.

LOL yeah, so he sold and endorsed some crap, that means he automatically didn't deserve the '80 Sandow...brutal logic...I can't believe kids like these can be so irrational and foolish due to unmitigated bias...

[smaul]

Was Zane knocked-kneed?  In every photo you see of him he seems to point his knees inwards, to emphasize the size of his upper body maybe?

[pumpster]

Not true in '80; maybe in '79 but not the following year.

You're obviously way biased & resolute in your denial of it-he doesn't look so great in those shots either. As mentioned and as you refuse to acknowledge, he did NOT do a good job with the little details that can make a crucial difference: he had as usual insufficient muscular refinement in some areas of the upper body, had no tan & looked pasty, etc. even in 1980. Both Zane & Schwarzenegger had those attributes and looked polished, he didn't. Typical of Mentzer & HIT in general there's a smugness there that led to his downfall, that his fans also seem to retain as if they know better than anyone else.

Was Zane knocked-kneed?  In every photo you see of him he seems to point his knees inwards, to emphasize the size of his upper body maybe?

I've seen that so many times in his poses; should've learned to avoid that as much as possible, though part of it might've been structural. He was never an ideal in that respect despite the rhetoric involving his aesthetics, IMO.


*Nothing* impressive about Mentzer here-rid yourself of your preconceptions and obsession with size just long enough to notice that Mentzer had virtually no cuts or detail, looked pasty AND washed-out.  Zane had all of those things that Mentzer lacked. Deal with it.

[pumpster]

Further evidence of Mentzer with virtually *no* detail or refinement (as usual), washed out, pasty..Zane had all the refinement, detail & polish that Mentzer lacked. Mentzer was as oblivious to this as you are which is why he was devasted and retired, like a little baby.

[TheGoldenPrince]

Further evidence of Mentzer with virtually *no* detail or refinement (as usual), washed out, pasty..Zane had all the refinement, detail & polish that Mentzer lacked. Mentzer was as oblivious to this as you are which is why he was devasted and retired, like a little baby.

LOL yeah no refinement...the camera's just catching Zane's arm at a tilted angle ya stupid dweeb...why are you kids so dumb? Must be the porn nowadays...

[pumpster]

The "only" problem with your constant flimsy excuses is that my observations hold for all pics in this thread.  Basically you can't even entertain let alone accept the reality that you're a Mentzer groupie who is 100% blinded/deluded by fanaticism. I don't have any particular bias or preference for any of the guys in that contest.

Mentzer was never the best guy in any contest I've seen-*always* lacked refinement and polish in key areas of the upper body.

[TheGoldenPrince]

The "only" problem with your constant flimsy excuses is that my observations hold for all pics in this thread.  Basically you can't even entertain let alone accept the reality that you're a Mentzer groupie who is 100% blinded/deluded by fanaticism. I don't have any particular bias or preference for any of the guys in that contest.

Mentzer was never the best guy in any contest I've seen-*always* lacked refinement and polish in key areas of the upper body.

Hahaha, yeah your "observations". The only things that lack refinement and polish are your flimsy arguments fuelled by Mentzer hatredl only a fool or someone with hatred for the guy would continue overlooking the patently obvious. Or you're a just a 'tard, plain & simple. Show me one thing you've said that is true. Making conjecture about Zane's conditioning and Mentzer's supposed lack thereof still won't make you a man...boy. Still, you're a pretty funny kid I'll give ya that; I might just decide to keep toyin' around with you for laughs.

[pumpster]

Your "case": endless blathering and excuses for Mentzer.


My case: pics don't lie.   

[TheGoldenPrince]

My "case": endless blathering and excuses against Mentzer.


Your case: pics don't lie.   

Haha, ok "Pumpster", whatever you say!

[pumpster]

Take a good look at your Mike "no cuts" Mentzer posters and be honest with yourself..

[TheGoldenPrince]

Zane had all of those things that Mentzer lacked. Deal with it.

Well, maybe Zane did have a pussy, he was so small. In that sense, maybe yer right ya lil' homo. My misguided, deluded, pathetic lil' friend, definition does count for something obviously but at the end of the day, the sport's called BODYBUILDING.

[TheGoldenPrince]

Take a good look at your Mike "no cuts" Mentzer posters and be honest with yourself..

They don't exist; the only one here with no cuts is you....boy.

[pumpster]

My misguided, deluded, pathetic lil' friend, definition does count for something obviously but at the end of the day, the sport's called BODYBUILDING.

Forgetting Zane, there were "only" 4-5 other guys who could regularly beat Mentzer: Robinson, Padilla, Fox, Szkalak, etc. I like your taste in BBs! 

[TheGoldenPrince]

Forgetting Zane, there were "only" 4-5 other guys who could regularly beat Mentzer: Robinson, Padilla, Fox, Szkalak, etc. I like your taste in BBs! 

The above were all amazing and were at least comparable with Mike (Robinson was definitely superior though) except for Szkalak who left before his potential was fulfilled. Zane was too small by the late '70s though a legend nontheless. It's just that when turds like yourself overlook the obvious (Zane too small all-round and Arnie having chicken legs and a narrowe frame despte being taller!), you kids need to be bitchslapped. I'm not talking about '79 now ya little dipshit but '80 where MM's balance of size, symmetry and conditioning blew all comers away.

[pumpster]

Unfortunately for you i see things very clearly, which is why you're now forced to agree with my pithy analysis of other BBs of the era.

Then be bothered by the now almost completely forgotten fact that Robinson was never allowed to win, nor Padilla or Fox. Stop obsessing on Mentzer who was very good but not quite great you whiny little homo groupie.

[suckmymuscle]

  Yes, Mentzer recalled the episode:

  "Here was this big Prussian son of a bitch disrespecting a bodybuilding legend. We were all shocked by how arrogant and debacuhed Arnold's attitude was. I confronted him about it, and he cowered."

  Poor Mentzer; he simply didn't have the genetics to beat Arnold. I personally admire his precise, logical approach to bodybuilding training. But the thing is, I suspect, that he took his obsession with Rand and objectivism too far. He bacame excessively logical, and started to believe that Humans relate to each other through objectivist logic; he actually believed that mind games, manipulation and favoritism are not parts of Human interaction. How could he win the title against a man who, although he had retired previously, was, coming into the contest, a six time Olympia winner, and who defeated him on both muscularity and natural structure? Poor Mike...

  Also, Arnold is a natural alpha male: a man who was born to rule. It's obvious that Arnold's ability to play mind and political games was superior to Mike's: Arnold completely and utterly dominated all the men around him, through a combination of intimidation, false flattery and outright deceit. Mike never had a chance. The fact that he publicly criticized Weider and his training methods, on magazine articles, didn't help him either to win Joe's most important contest. Mentzer was a great bodybuilder and a brilliant intellectual, but he was a social retard.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pumpster]

Also, Arnold is a natural alpha male: a man who was born to rule. It's obvious that Arnold's ability to play mind and political games was superior to Mike's: Arnold completely and utterly dominated all the men around him, through a combination of intimidation, false flattery and outright deceit. Mike never had a chance. The fact that he publicly criticized Weider and his training methods, on magazine articles, didn't help him either to win Joe's most important contest. Mentzer was a great bodybuilder and a brilliant intellectual, but he was a social retard.

Agreed, except that I'm not sure that their personas had much to do with it-Schwarzenegger was going to win as long as it was close, period. I give Mentzer credit for standing up to him however Weider and others had already decided the outcome as long as Schwarzenegger was in reasonable shape.

[suckmymuscle]

Agreed, except that I'm not sure that their personas had much to do with it-Schwarzenegger was going to win as long as it was close, period. I give Mentzer credit for standing up to him however Weider and others had already decided the outcome as long as Schwarzenegger was in reasonable shape.

  Oh damn, Pumpster, you finally agree with me! I agree with you, but I think that Mentzer's lack of personal charm and his abarsive, non-negotiating personality made him lose a lot of opportunities in life. For instance, his obsession with moral rectitude made him feel so upset by Arnold's victory that he simply called it quits. For good. Any other champion, in his position, would have re-grouped and competed the following year, especially considering that Arnold would be out.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[TheGoldenPrince]

Unfortunately for you i see things very clearly, which is why you're now forced to agree with my pithy analysis of other BBs of the era.

Then be bothered by the now almost completely forgotten fact that Robinson was never allowed to win, nor Padilla or Fox. Stop obsessing on Mentzer who was very good but not quite great you whiny little homo groupie.

Haha yeah, so clearly that your "pithy analysis" has led you to see inferior BBers like Arnold and Zane as the winners, LOL. You can't answer the facts kiddo, so you deviate from the argument at hand. Get a brain dipshit and realise we're talking about MM here, and his '80 Mr O victory.