A NEW DAY IN AGE

[Arnold jr]

Emmortal, some quick notes on your response; at least how I see it:

*The housing marked, the deregulated lending problem: yes, you're right, this is a problem, Bush is to blame for a good bit of it, but a lot of it was carry over from the Clinton years.

*The War: If I'm not mistaken both Biden and Obama voted for the war. I looked up the voting record on who voted "no" and niether of their names could be found. 23 senators voted no, they were not one of them. So if you want to blame anyone for us being in a war, if you think it was a bad call that's fine, but both of these guys are equally at fault if you're going to point a finger.

*The War: it's not shocking news to the board that I have been a supporter for the war since day one and still am. Now Obama himself said over and over that this was a war we could never win; he has since several times admitted he was wrong, that we have won the war in Iraq. Some will argue that how can we say we won if we're still there? Well, simple, just because you win any war doesn't mean you pack up and leave...that would be even more devastating to a fragile country such a Iraq. Yes, we won the war, but structure has to be permanently fixed before we can leave. Otherwise everything is lost for us and them.

*Bush Sr: Hardly a recession IMO. Yes, a dip in the economy, but nothing like we are experiencing now or did in the mid and late 70's. Of course, what some call a recession others will not. That can be seen even now. Some say we are in a bad recession, others say we are in a early stage depression. The fact remains, call it what you want from 88-92 but it was nothing that effected millions of people like a real recession does.

The way I see it with Obama:

Those who work, those who produce are the ones who should reap the benefits. Every last person has opportunity in America; this is proven time and time again by all the immigrants that come to this country every year and lead successful lives. No not all of them, but the ones who bust their tails will meet success.

It is no question that a very large gap has developed in the U.S. between the upper class and the middle class. Some gap is necessary for any economy to function properly. Yes, too much of a gap is damaging to the population, but this can be controlled legitimately by regulating ethical business practices. If you try to regulate it by simply taking what you want, you will see the big money pull out of out economy, and nothing would destroy it faster then that.

[Luv2Hurt]

I'm sorry but some of this is just completely wrong.  Sept 11 would have happened no matter who was in office, yes.  The CLEAR and IMPORTANT part of 9/11 is what they did AFTER it happened.  We went to war thrusting our country into tremendous debt, tripling the national debt in less than a decade, devaluing the dollar further, and bringing an heightened state of fear amongst the people,  something that's NEVER been done under any president.  If Gore had been in office there may have been a good possibility that we wouldn't be where we are right now (as far as the war goes).

The housing market was not destroyed just because of irresponsible financing, it also happened in part due to the severe amount of de-regulation that Bush instituted over these lending institutions.  As a direct result greed flourished and bam, here we are.


We were actually in a recession all throughout the Bush Sr. years and didn't come out of it until the 2nd or so year of Clintons administration.  And yea we were going into a recession at the end of Clintons era, the war just seemed too perfectly timed as a mechanism for attempting to pull us out of recession.  It was totally unnecessary as we now know and a tremendous mistake.

This is irrelevant when you look at the fact that he voted over 92% in AGREEMENT with Bush.

I think Obama has a lot to prove and we shouldn't start sucking each others dicks just yet.  Only time will tell, I'm just glad I didn't have to move on that option to buy that condo I had set up in Vancoover if McCain had won

Yep Bush sr. had stuff screwed up too.  There was high unemployment and for sure we suffered through a recession.  I actually voted for him in that election......and that was the last time i voted repub. 

I too also hope Obama does a good job and I think we will see he will not let us down.  I see this as an exciting time for our country and maybe even the world.  I think if we give him a chance we will all be doing better in 4 years.

I know I seriously was thinking if McCain got in it would be a very dark day for the country.

[Overload]

I THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO REMOVE THIS TOPIC it now has turned into something like a drunken argument on who fucked up and you dont know what you are talking about hell i posted this when i was drunk so there

None of us know what we are talking about, it's all speculation and misinformed propaganda. That is what irritates me about arguing over politics, none of us know the truth, all we know is what we see and hear, which is usually skewed in more ways than one.

Some of the things posted in here are so far from the truth it isn't even funny, but i do enjoy reading a good argument every now and then.

We are all pissing in the wind here.

Let us see what happens in a few years.

[Big Rock.]

That is what irritates me about arguing over politics,

We are all pissing in the wind here.

    LOL     Amen to that.

  Politics and religion. Everyone's right, and no one's right....

[4thAD]

None of us know what we are talking about, it's all speculation and misinformed propaganda. That is what irritates me about arguing over politics, none of us know the truth, all we know is what we see and hear, which is usually skewed in more ways than one.

Some of the things posted in here are so far from the truth it isn't even funny, but i do enjoy reading a good argument every now and then.

We are all pissing in the wind here.

Let us see what happens in a few years.

Agreed 

[Arnold jr]

None of us know what we are talking about, it's all speculation and misinformed propaganda. That is what irritates me about arguing over politics, none of us know the truth, all we know is what we see and hear, which is usually skewed in more ways than one.

Some of the things posted in here are so far from the truth it isn't even funny, but i do enjoy reading a good argument every now and then.

We are all pissing in the wind here.

Let us see what happens in a few years.

Well disagree with this as well, lol! That's the beauty of American politics, the ideas and thoughts of people are what matters the most. It is for that very reason Obama was elected on Tuesday, the ideas, thoughts and opinions of people were sparked with his own more then with McCain's.

When it comes to politics, everyone would be so much better off if they could develop thick skin when it came to this sort of thing. People seem to take disagreements on this topic way too personally and there really isn't any need for that. Disagreeing on politics is not a personal attack.

I really do enjoy hearing others thoughts and opinions on this sort of thing. I especially like hearing it from those that disagree with me. It's the only way you can get insight on the topic, it's the only way you can learn what the guy across from you believes. Some might say it doesn't matter what someone else thinks or believes, well the only way to ever have some level of unity is if all thoughts and ideas are made open. In the end, we may still not agree with each other on every issue, but we cannot learn from each other without discussion.

Like I said, when it comes to political discussion, wearing thick skin is the only way to do it right.

[Rimbaud]

Well disagree with this as well, lol! That's the beauty of American politics, the ideas and thoughts of people are what matters the most. It is for that very reason Obama was elected on Tuesday, the ideas, thoughts and opinions of people were sparked with his own more then with McCain's.

When it comes to politics, everyone would be so much better off if they could develop thick skin when it came to this sort of thing. People seem to take disagreements on this topic way too personally and there really isn't any need for that. Disagreeing on politics is not a personal attack.

I really do enjoy hearing others thoughts and opinions on this sort of thing. I especially like hearing it from those that disagree with me. It's the only way you can get insight on the topic, it's the only way you can learn what the guy across from you believes. Some might say it doesn't matter what someone else thinks or believes, well the only way to ever have some level of unity is if all thoughts and ideas are made open. In the end, we may still not agree with each other on every issue, but we cannot learn from each other without discussion.

Like I said, when it comes to political discussion, wearing thick skin is the only way to do it right.

Well said my friend.

[Emmortal]

Like I said, when it comes to political discussion, wearing thick skin is the only way to do it right.

That's the biggest problem with most people is that politics is their religion.   They are fanatical about their party and their viewpoints to the point that everyone else who doesn't share those views is wrong.  I'd discuss these topics a lot more if it weren't for that, very few people can hold a mature conversation without resulting to personal insults.

[shrek]

ii say drill baby drill

[Rimbaud]

I finally got to see McCain's consession speech. I must say my respect for him has returned.

[4thAD]

Testify brotha!

Yes we can!

[Arnold jr]

I finally got to see McCain's consession speech. I must say my respect for him has returned.

Like his political ideas or not, it's hard to argue that McCain is not how a political candidate should conduct themselves. Being an upright and just person who lives by their own convictions should warrant all the respect in the world. I understand that as great as that is that it takes more then that to be ready to lead an entire country...obviously, the people spoke and chose Obama. But I believe that as a whole the American people would respect politicians much more if they all conducted themselves like McCain. I'm not saying he's perfect, he is a human being.

It will be interesting to see how Obama conducts himself when the pressure mounts and when mistakes are made, because there will be pressure and he will make mistakes...after all, that's the nature of politics and the nature of life itse;f, no matter how great a person is.

Like I said, I was not an Obama supporter by any means, but he is our president now and because of that I believe I have no just cause not to support him when it comes to the betterment of our nation. I felt the same way when Clinton was in office; it used to infuriate me that some seemed so adamant in opposing every move he made and wished him to cause harm for this country because it would make him look bad. After all, once someone is the president, whether you supported him or not, his decisions will effect you and at that point all you can do is hope he'll make the right ones.

[Rimbaud]

Like his political ideas or not, it's hard to argue that McCain is not how a political candidate should conduct themselves. Being an upright and just person who lives by their own convictions should warrant all the respect in the world. I understand that as great as that is that it takes more then that to be ready to lead an entire country...obviously, the people spoke and chose Obama. But I believe that as a whole the American people would respect politicians much more if they all conducted themselves like McCain. I'm not saying he's perfect, he is a human being.

It will be interesting to see how Obama conducts himself when the pressure mounts and when mistakes are made, because there will be pressure and he will make mistakes...after all, that's the nature of politics and the nature of life itse;f, no matter how great a person is.

Like I said, I was not an Obama supporter by any means, but he is our president now and because of that I believe I have no just cause not to support him when it comes to the betterment of our nation. I felt the same way when Clinton was in office; it used to infuriate me that some seemed so adamant in opposing every move he made and wished him to cause harm for this country because it would make him look bad. After all, once someone is the president, whether you supported him or not, his decisions will effect you and at that point all you can do is hope he'll make the right ones.

True. But I doubt he was pulling the strings of his campaign (especially towards the end).

[Arnold jr]

True. But I doubt he was pulling the strings of his campaign (especially towards the end).

What do you mean?

[Rimbaud]

What do you mean?

Just based on what I know about McCain - he seemed to do a complete 180 during the campaign. I firmly believe he wanted to have a different VP & he wanted to run a "cleaner" campaign.

[Arnold jr]

Just based on what I know about McCain - he seemed to do a complete 180 during the campaign. I firmly believe he wanted to have a different VP & he wanted to run a "cleaner" campaign.

As for the cleaner campaign I agree. Case in point, many of the negative adds we saw in TV were not endorsed by McCain himself, but by GOP affiliates. McCain openly requested these individuals not to make these adds, the GOP agreed but thought it was a mistake, but some of the smaller groups did so any way.

Some might say that him openly saying he didn't want these adds was a way for him to get them aired without him looking like the asshole. Could be true, we'll never know for sure. I have my doubts that he would have done this, simply because it is not a smart campaign move and he is no idiot when it comes to campaigns. However, there were several issues he should have attacked on during the debates and he missed some golden opportunities, such as some of Obama's associations. But at this point that's not really here or there.

Palin, I don't think he could have made a better choice for a VP. If you remember, and most want because they are quick to forget things (Not saying you are Rim) when he picked Palin he went ahead in every poll almost every night and continued to gain ground for the first time in the process. She was the only factor in his campaign that seemed to energize the party base as well as many of the independents. Of course come late September when the economy took a major slide, not even her energy could save the campaign...it became an impossibility.

Speaking of Palin, she has the possibility for a very bright future in the GOP IMO.

Something else that I've noticed for a while and find interesting about getbig.com as a whole including the steroid board. I know I am one of very few on this board who is a pretty strong conservative and hard line GOP guy...most here seem to be either sort of slightly left of center or outright left all the way. The reason I say I find that interesting...how is that the way it is on getbig that almost everyone here is at least somewhat of a leftist? Other boards I frequent are much more in line with what the election showed us Tuesday night. Yes, Obama won big in the electoral count, and that's what matters, but when it comes to the popular vote, it was very evenly split, with Obama only having a small advantage...it was by no means a land slide. It's just humorous to me that on a bodybuilding related board, so many leftist individuals ended up on the same board, lol!

Course many will try to claim they are independents...seems to be the new craze. But I believe in independents as much as I do santa clause, lol!

[Rimbaud]

Speaking of Palin, she has the possibility for a very bright future in the GOP IMO.

I don't think so. I think once you get past the "cute" factor I don't really think there's much there.

[Arnold jr]

I don't think so. I think once you get past the "cute" factor I don't really think there's much there.

I'm not saying that she is a guarantee or anything like that...nothing is guaranteed. But she talks the talk that the GOP has been lacking the past several years. What I mean is, when it comes to what those who call themselves republicans want, that's what she preaches through and through.

...and when it comes to all the BS being spewed about her the past 72hrs or so, it's just that...BS. It's complete insanity what these couple of "no names" are saying. If there were any truth to it, they would show their face.

[DIVISION]

I know I seriously was thinking if McCain got in it would be a very dark day for the country.

If Palin was anywhere near the White House it would be a dark four years for the country.

What a nightmare!   

We are all pissing in the wind here.

We might be pissing in the wind, but some of us have a better idea of where our piss is going than others.

I've been keeping up on the politics behind the campaigns since they began.

You want a good argument, watch "HardBall" on MSNBC.



DIV

[Rimbaud]

I'm not saying that she is a guarantee or anything like that...nothing is guaranteed. But she talks the talk that the GOP has been lacking the past several years. What I mean is, when it comes to what those who call themselves republicans want, that's what she preaches through and through.

...and when it comes to all the BS being spewed about her the past 72hrs or so, it's just that...BS. It's complete insanity what these couple of "no names" are saying. If there were any truth to it, they would show their face.

IMO - Sarah will end up with a nice book deal & talk show (radio/TV). She'd be a fool to try again.

[DIVISION]

I'm not saying that she is a guarantee or anything like that...nothing is guaranteed. But she talks the talk that the GOP has been lacking the past several years. What I mean is, when it comes to what those who call themselves republicans want, that's what she preaches through and through.

...and when it comes to all the BS being spewed about her the past 72hrs or so, it's just that...BS. It's complete insanity what these couple of "no names" are saying. If there were any truth to it, they would show their face.

Sarah Palin isn't a true conservative.

Anyone who calls themselves a "hockey mom" then proceeds to go on and raid Neiman Marcus stores across both coasts culminating in several hundred thousand in charges isn't a conservative at all.

She's not a populist either.

I believe the McCain aides who said she didn't didn't know that Africa was a continent, not a country and her inability to name the countries in NAFTA.

She's an ignorant politican, a pretender as we call them in political circles.

She plays to Republican base, but has no appeal to the independant or democrats, which means she's absolutely useless in any Presidential race.

McCain found that out the hard way.

Always vet your VP.........at least make sure she knows basic geography.

I'd fuck Palin, just to shut her up.........every word that comes out of her mouth is pure barnyard rhetoric.

"pallin' around with terrorists."   


DIV

[Emmortal]

If McCain had picked Condoleezza Rice I think he could have sealed the deal.

[DIVISION]

If McCain had picked Condoleezza Rice I think he could have sealed the deal.

I disagree.

Many blacks feel Rice is a traitor for supporting Bush in the first place.

Hispanics felt betayed by Bush's failed immigration reform and that is why they voted for Obama.

McCain should have picked Romney..........then he'd have an economic expert and a real conservative who would appeal to the Republican base.

Romney couldn't not have done any worse than Palin.

On a side note, I wouldn't mind deepthroating Palin, then pounding her sweet white ass......just to see what type of sounds she makes.

She has freak written all over her.   



DIV

[Arnold jr]

Sarah Palin isn't a true conservative.

Anyone who calls themselves a "hockey mom" then proceeds to go on and raid Neiman Marcus stores across both coasts culminating in several hundred thousand in charges isn't a conservative at all.

She's not a populist either.

I believe the McCain aides who said she didn't didn't know that Africa was a continent, not a country and her inability to name the countries in NAFTA.

She's an ignorant politican, a pretender as we call them in political circles.

She plays to Republican base, but has no appeal to the independant or democrats, which means she's absolutely useless in any Presidential race.

McCain found that out the hard way.

Always vet your VP.........at least make sure she knows basic geography.

I'd fuck Palin, just to shut her up.........every word that comes out of her mouth is pure barnyard rhetoric.

"pallin' around with terrorists."   


DIV

When it comes to politics what she did in regards to the wardrobe stuff has absolutely nothing to do with anything...that doesn't make her conservative, liberal, right wing, left wing, or what ever you want to call it...that has to be the most ridiculous argument of all time in regards to her wardrobe.

When it comes to politics, being conservative, being liberal has nothing to do with the clothes you wear, the house you live in, where you get your haircut etc. Come on DIV, some of the biggest democrats in the game have some of the most outrageous expenses. Besides, Palin was given that money for just that...she was given the money to buy those clothes by the campaign...candidates do not have free reign over the campaign purse to spend what they want.

 As for you believing the McCain aides or anyone else, well, you really have no reason to believe them. I'll admit, sure, it is possible, stranger things have happened in this world then someone not knowing Africa was a continent. But in this case it is highly doubtful and the only people that really want to believe it are those who didin't like her in the first place.

...and she is quite popular with her base, which is all that really matters. Just like Obama was, he was popular with his base form the get go...independents didn't jump all over him till way down the line till the election was almost here. As already noted, when Palin joined the ticket, they took a decent lead in all the polls and held it until the financial crises hit late Sept.

If McCain had picked Condoleezza Rice I think he could have sealed the deal.

I don't know if there was anyone that could seal the deal for the republicans this year after the economy took such a hit recently. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Palin was as good of a choice that could be made.

I disagree.

Many blacks feel Rice is a traitor for supporting Bush in the first place.

...and we should all agree this is ridiculous. The whole race factor thing is ridiculous when others try to label someone a traitor like this.

Hispanics felt betayed by Bush's failed immigration reform and that is why they voted for Obama.

Also ridiculous...after all, Bush went against the majority of his own party and supported amnesty for all the illegals.

McCain should have picked Romney..........then he'd have an economic expert and a real conservative who would appeal to the Republican base.

Romney couldn't not have done any worse than Palin.

Romney didn't get the nod in the primary for the simple fact that he did not appeal to the base.

[jimijimi]

(Other Mods, let this stay for a day or 2 Arnold jr.)

tonight is the begining of a new day in age.... so be th outcome iam still 110% all american despite my predjudice and raceism iam still a patriot to the bones and will support america wrong or right.... now there will be a total difference in our lives,  putting aside my wants of a none black president there is a very positve side to this, we are no longer divided by race because now all of us have the same leader and he is all of our president and also the rest of the world will see our diversity and we can now get the love and respect back... i just hope that he wasnt voted because people just wanted a minority in office instead of the best canidit,,, i say congrates to our new president elect...... now is the time to stock up on guns and ammo , and supplements and all those good thins cause now they will probably take those rights away from us

Just remember he's half WHITE, thank god