Bryan vs HHH Really??!!

[MCWAY]

I wonder if HHH and Vince sit around the dinner table talking about how he was punished for the MSG experience which led to the pig slop match which eventually him getting the keys to the castle...

The feud that Helmsley had with Henry Godwin was in 1995 and early 1996, when Diesel and Razor were still in the WWF. By the time that curtain call mess happened, Henry was in another angle with him and Phineas winning the tag titles and being manipulated by Sunny, to later lose the belts to the Smoking Gunns.

Plus, Hunter ended up IC champion in late '96. So, his 'punishment' wasn't really so harsh, after all. Of course, that may have had more to do with Ahmed Johnson's injury and Marc Mero's somewhat flat IC title reign.

[MCWAY]

I think Miz was given his title run because it got the WWE a little outside attention from non wrestling people. That being said I don't think he was terrible but do think he's annoying at times.

WWE was also short on heels. People constantly complained about Cena, Orton, and Helmsley rotating with the belt. Yet, every time WWE tries to create new heels, folks on the so-called internet wrestling community start bickering.

They went ape when Sheamus beat Cena for the WWE title. How do you complain about Cena being the poster boy, then when he get beat (clean, no less) by Sheamus, you whine about that.

I'm not talking about you specifically, Karl, just some folks in general.

[Melkor]

WWE was also short on heels. People constantly complained about Cena, Orton, and Helmsley rotating with the belt. Yet, every time WWE tries to create new heels, folks on the so-called internet wrestling community start bickering.

They went ape when Sheamus beat Cena for the WWE title. How do you complain about Cena being the poster boy, then when he get beat (clean, no less) by Sheamus, you whine about that.

I'm not talking about you specifically, Karl, just some folks in general.

Yeah but it is so difficult for a heel to get heat in the PG, promo scripted era. Heels need to carry out vicious attack and cut edgy, offensive promos to get real heat. The Miz for me and for many was just not a believable threat. He just didn't seem legit or capable of beating any of the big names.

[Montague]

Yeah but it is so difficult for a heel to get heat in the PG, promo scripted era. Heels need to carry out vicious attack and cut edgy, offensive promos to get real heat. The Miz for me and for many was just not a believable threat. He just didn't seem legit or capable of beating any of the big names.

Those are good points. WWE is reverting back to more of what it was in the late 80's/early 90's. There is a heavier focus on toys, and now they appear to being doing cartoons again. With Vince, it seems like it's either one extreme or another.

Personally, I would like to see them adopt a style more like the Crockett/80's NWA. That product was suitable for families to attend and watch, and I doubt there was anyone who didn't consider Terry Funk, Arn Anderson and crew "edgy."

You don't need to push the censor envelope to appeal to adults, and you don't have to be a "live action cartoon" to be family-friendly. NWA's formula satisfied multiple demographics. WWE, however, seems to alienate most of one demographic in favor of another when it shifts its content.

[Playboy]

Yeah but it is so difficult for a heel to get heat in the PG, promo scripted era. Heels need to carry out vicious attack and cut edgy, offensive promos to get real heat. The Miz for me and for many was just not a believable threat. He just didn't seem legit or capable of beating any of the big names.

Agreed 100%

[MCWAY]

Yeah but it is so difficult for a heel to get heat in the PG, promo scripted era. Heels need to carry out vicious attack and cut edgy, offensive promos to get real heat. The Miz for me and for many was just not a believable threat. He just didn't seem legit or capable of beating any of the big names.

 It's not just the Miz, although he had the "jerk" factor that made you hate his guts. Not all heels are Triple H types. Miz was more like an early Kurt Angle or Honky Tonk Man.


Another guy on which they royally dropped the ball is Jack Swagger. Remember his "Real American" makeover? That was perfect for him. Add Zeb Coulter as his manager (to cover Swagger's lisp and do his promos) and he was GOLDEN, until that DUI/weed thing.

Even back in 2010, Swagger got clowned. He wins the last WM Money-In-The-Bank match and cashes the case on Jericho to win the World title (we can't possibly have him cash it on Cena for the WWE title, fresh off Cena's win against Batista, now can we?). Then he beats both Jericho and Edge to retain the title, only to lose to Rey Mysterio?


I mean why is Randy Orton "main event" material now when a year ago Swagger was beating him, left and right? He beat him in the Chamber to get his WM World title shot last year against Del Rio. He beat Orton on Smackdown multiple times.

Now, just a few months later, Orton gets both belts (after his umpteenth feud with Cena) and Swagger is buried behind Cesaro, in the "Real Americans" tag team? Both Del Rio and Swagger got smothered in the Cena-Orton saga.

Two years ago, Orton was in a meaningless 'Mania match with Kane (which he lost); last year, he was in a six-man-tag match against the Shield (which he lost); now, he's the main event of WM30?

That's why I said in my 'Mania predictions that a Bray Wyatt win over Cena means basically ZILCH. Miz beat Cena at WrestleMania three years ago....a lot of good that did him. All that did was push the Rock-Cena feud. Once Miz dropped the belt....GAME OVER!!


Del Rio beat Cena at Hell in the Cell and Night of Champions in 2011 (in title matches); that hardly helped him.

Ziggler beat Cena at TLC 2012 with Ziggler's MITB case on the line.  The implication was that, if Cena won it, he wasn't going to squander the Smackdown briefcase as he did the Raw one; in other words, he would do a 'traditional' cash-in (wait for the champ to get beta up then make the title match).


Heck, Sheamus beat Cena TWICE for the WWE title, straight up the first time at TLC. The second he dropped the belt (to Orton, of course), it was a first-class ticket back to the midcard for him.