DEAR FATHER, BLESS ME FOR I HAVE SINNED...

[lesaucer]

Most of the guys I played football with were using them and I pretty much had to use them to be in the same playing field recovery and strength wise...they also helped me during wrestling season when I was cutting 25 pounds...anavar came in real handy there..I had someone to guide me and I did about a year or two of research before I touched it...I'm 20 years old now and still use...I get regular blood work done and I'm fine...I'm def keepin a close eye on my health...like I said before, the benefits outweighed risks and I made an educated decision to use them...I don't regret starting young

do you cycle or do you just stay on all the time, just cruising sometime? I think that when ill go on, im going to stay on forever, so i gotta be wise about that and get my sperm in a sperm bank in case i wanna have child later and i cant. also getting gyno surgery because im very sensitive and i dont wanna mess my gains using ai and shit just to not get tits.

[jerseymuscles113]

how would an ai mess up gains? take some letro while your on then say ai's Or ae's mess up gains

[jerseymuscles113]

you'll look nice And dry*

[tstmaniac]

I don't stay on all the time...ill go 6month cycles

[local hero]

sean ray, arnold, lee preist, lee haney, jay cutler and countless other all started around that age,,, im not saying its right, personaly i waited till i had a good natural base( 300 bench, 400 squat etc) but u cant argue with the countless number of top top bodybuilders that started out young.......... as i keep saying, u can drasticly change your body in that period of your life.

[Cal_Lifter]

I just saw an out take from 'Bigger Faster Stronger' and there's a Harvard Doctor (who is seems to be pro steroids) says that males produce 50mgs to 70mgs a WEEK of testosterone, on average.

So it seems that 250mgs of test would provide gains.

[mrgut]

I have used 250 mgs of sustanon 1 shot a week actually for 10 weeks and gained a very solid 17-19 lbs but of course I was only eating, training, sleeping and F ucking. To say you can't gain off it is absurd. The only reason he wont make progress with that is if he can't make any decent progress naturally. Some can gain weight and muscle by training and eating enough good food consistently, you add drugs and they explode. Others, however, are lazy and as we like to say are, "all drugs". If the guy is a newbie to gear he can make incredible progress on a first cycle, regardless of the dose being 250mgs a week. How does it feel to think you have to take upwards of a gram/week to make good gains? Use as little as you have to and train your ass off and eat to blow up like a can of biscuts!

[jerseymuscles113]

to start i take 500mgs a week an will stay close to that As long As i can so i agree with only take the minimum amount of drugs And tighten up your diet And training if you wanna put size on i tell ppl that all the time on here.....but saying 250 is enough to put On 20lbs  Or w/e you said is ridiculous unless either A its from training And diet And Not the juice Or B you carry Alot of bf....250mg ew is a little more then a trt dose....good to make you feel better but not good enough to make steroid like gains

[mrgut]

I was coming off a break in training so some was muscle memory. I do have a picture up of me from a few years back, I am not fat by any means. but I've personally witnessed people gain 40 - 50lbs, not 100% muscle but mostly, from f ucking 10 week cycles of 500mgs. Not test but other things. They kept about 25-30 lbs. Also, I know they weren't taking more than this because it was someone I know who injected them. Also I was talking about weight not pure muscle. Gaining that much weight is easy on the sauce.

[WillGrant]

I just saw an out take from 'Bigger Faster Stronger' and there's a Harvard Doctor (who is seems to be pro steroids) says that males produce 50mgs to 70mgs a WEEK of testosterone, on average.

So it seems that 250mgs of test would provide gains.

Of course it will..If you know how to diet and train a ml a week is pushing your test levels 2-3 times over the high end of whats considered normal..this is BB though where more is considered better.

2ml a week seems to be the best starting point for most people though as long as you know how to eat and train..
Also make sure you are at a lower bf level when you start juicing as you need to take in more calories to gain and if you are fat to start you will in most cases just get big and fatter.

[Cal_Lifter]

WillGrant, I agree with you, which is why I ran 500mgs my first cycle. I was just addressing all the previous comments stating that 250mg was just going to replace your natural test and that's it.

[WillGrant]

WillGrant, I agree with you, which is why I ran 500mgs my first cycle. I was just addressing all the previous comments stating that 250mg was just going to replace your natural test and that's it.

All good bro  I also think gains can be made off a ml a week , for those who say 250mg is just going to replace your normal levels , they dont know shit. 

[flinstones1]

Of course it will..If you know how to diet and train a ml a week is pushing your test levels 2-3 times over the high end of whats considered normal..this is BB though where more is considered better.

2ml a week seems to be the best starting point for most people though as long as you know how to eat and train..
Also make sure you are at a lower bf level when you start juicing as you need to take in more calories to gain and if you are fat to start you will in most cases just get big and fatter.

I have a friend who ran 250mg of test one shot a week and bodyfat went from 16 to 10 percent..while gaining 12 pounds and eating everything in sight.

[mrgut]

Bottom line here is, you should be able to make gains naturally before you ever go on the sauce. If you can't do it naturally you need to fix your diet, training or both. Once you have those things spot on consistently and are a virgin to gear, if you can't make accelerated gains from the smallest amounts you suck and should quit now. Those more experienced though, will generally start to have to experiment with higher doses to reach their desired effect.

[flinstones1]

Bottom line here is, you should be able to make gains naturally before you ever go on the sauce. If you can't do it naturally you need to fix your diet, training or both. Once you have those things spot on consistently and are a virgin to gear, if you can't make accelerated gains from the smallest amounts you suck and should quit now. Those more experienced though, will generally start to have to experiment with higher doses to reach their desired effect.

bro you kinda missed the point. This fella has said he has low test naturally  and I believe he trains well and eats right, but ...
You can be the most gifted genetic freak to walk the earth in the past ten centuries... but if your test is low naturally or from previous steroid use or from being old whatever, gains are pretty much impossible. Along with igf number and etc...if test is under 350ng/dl your fucked as a bodybuilder/strength athlete.(maintaining is probably very possible but as far as building muscle mass, not a chance in hell unless you take some shit and get levels up)

[mrgut]

I understand that. A close buddy of mine didn't go through puberty until he was 18 and lord only knows how low his test levels were prior but he still trained ate and lifted and still made gains. Women, who naturally have a third or less testosterone than the poster can make muscle gains naturally. You're not going to blow up naturally at his test levels but just because he is on the low end of a normal man does not doom you to fruitless training and dieting. Taking a trt dose would at least triple his current levels of test and put his levels on par with the genetic elite as far as test levels are concerned. If everything else hormonally is in balance a trt dose is perfectly fine for his goals.

[Wingnut32]

on the other hand, you motherfuckers congratulate and welcome me.... 2 hours ago i corssed over to the dark side. 250mg of test enth.. took 7-8 mins to build uo the nerve to finally stick the needle in

Good on you for having some sense.  Don't listen to anyone telling you that you are taking trt doses.  250mg per week is not even close to a trt dose.  It is atleast 2 - 2.5 times trt dosages.  This isn't the last cycle you will ever have the chance to run; it is the first.  Start reasonable, see what happens then go from there.

[flinstones1]

I understand that. A close buddy of mine didn't go through puberty until he was 18 and lord only knows how low his test levels were prior but he still trained ate and lifted and still made gains. Women, who naturally have a third or less testosterone than the poster can make muscle gains naturally. You're not going to blow up naturally at his test levels but just because he is on the low end of a normal man does not doom you to fruitless training and dieting. Taking a trt dose would at least triple his current levels of test and put his levels on par with the genetic elite as far as test levels are concerned. If everything else hormonally is in balance a trt dose is perfectly fine for his goals.

understood.....of course one can make gains hell your right women do all the time. But as far as makin gains with that test level .....gains people will actually comment on and thing your blowing up....not gonna happen.

The most geneticly gifted naturals probably have test levels over 1000ng/dl(or 800 at least) and they still arent nothing freaky. So you can see what Im saying.
low test levels=impossible to gain muscle mass becaue loss of fractional protein synthesis and the body will constantly be breaking down muscle tissue when training...building muscle is out of the question at a decent rate with sub par test levels....regardless of food,training,or genetics.
I understand what your saying though bro.
p.s.-I doubt your friend made gains with low test levels....not if hes a human being. Unless you saw his dick(no homo) you wouldnt know unless blood test was done. Just because somone dont got facial hair, dont always mean test levels are low.

[jerseymuscles113]

some of you guys are so smart....250mg being 2.5x normal trt level And 250mgs being the perfect first cycle i'm gonna pm a mod And tell them their sticky on beginner cycles is wrong And that they should listen to you educated And experienced aas users....Fuck least i know  now And won't pass on anymore bogus info of 500mgs a week is good for beginners....Lmfaoo

[tstmaniac]

I made good gaines with 300mgs a week...but now that's I've done so many cycles I won't go below 500mgs

[4thAD]

This thread is true GetBig. 250mg ew will more than likely not do much for you. IMO its more of a waste of good gear than anything(as far as making real gains goes). I do commend the OP for being conservative and not taking powerful hormones lightly. All this BS about guys losing body fat while making crazy gains on super light cycles is nonsense. Guys gaining almost 20 pounds in 10 weeks off of low dose cycles is also nonsense. Those type gains wont be made off of crazy high doses, unless its fat and water combined. I dont like to preach too much about doses, because it could be taken the wrong way by new AAS users. You will never make real BB type gains off of 250mg ew. Yes gains can be made, but why use AAS if your not looking for BB type gains(Or you are at the top of some other sport where you need enhancement). The doses that top NPC and pros use would blow some of your minds. On the same note I'm not saying that its all AAS either by any means. Muscle gain take lots of hard work, crazy diet discipline, and work ethic. The pros and NPC elite are all super dedicated to what they do.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Good on you for having some sense.  Don't listen to anyone telling you that you are taking trt doses.  250mg per week is not even close to a trt dose.  It is atleast 2 - 2.5 times trt dosages.  This isn't the last cycle you will ever have the chance to run; it is the first.  Start reasonable, see what happens then go from there.

thanks man ... yeah no doubt my next cycles will be higher in doses, i just wanted to start off light cuz it being my first cycle, just wanted to get a handle on things...

it like when you want to try and taste a new food, you dont take a big bite...

[mrgut]

I don't see why people are getting defensive over people recommending low doses for virgins to gear. Come on we aren't taking about adding 20lbs of competition weight here. Muscle is mostly water to begin with...
Also, I have to contend with 4th AD here because I've seen people, trained them, shot them up and have experienced first hand just how much one can gain from 250mg - 500mg cycles. I can't deny or put aside what I have seen and experienced. I mean If he or anyone wants to do more than that, hey their body, their life.
Furthermore, some of these posters have only done what maybe 3 cycles their whole life and they are the ones taking like they're the experts? When some of us have more than a decade of experience? What is this?
When we are recommending doses far higher and frequent than what most doctors would prescribe and ingraining this 'more is better' attitude in beginners, it is no wonder the new generation of bbers are "all drugs" and look terrible with no separation and bloated as hell.

[mrgut]

I don't know if your talking about me or someone else, but you don't need to have 10 years of training experience with AAS to know that to go to the hassle of running just a ml a week of getting your shit,pinning, getting pct together,planning,yadayada....is dumb.

I see your point here and no, I wasn't taking about you. I personally would not even do a major PCT for a 250mg cycle being it would still keep most of us in the natural level maybe not even shut you done too bad, maybe not at all.
I myself do take much more than that.

I have myself a buddy as we speak taking 8 i.u. hgh ed, 500mg primo ew, 40mg anavar ed, and 1gm test a week, and 100 mcg clen ed.... 5 weeks in and he looks like total shit, worse than when he started imo. No amount of drugs can replace dedication and consistansy in training and dieting. When you got someone who has his bases covered give him some d-bol, test and deca and a few years of moderate cycles you can have an execellent bber's physique

It feels to me we are being hypocritical when we tell these first time newbs, 'dude these are powerful drugs man do your reseach' but are telling them that taking a much more moderate dose in stupid. I say to all those that approach me, 'take this, see how you feel in 5 weeks if it going good bump it up a couple 100 mg o whatever, see what thats like...' I'm just worried when people feel there is some kind of minimum... when there isn't really any scientific research that says so, merely anecdotal.

Again, I am only speaking from my experience and from my knowledge base.
I been reading this board for a very long time and love the debate and exchange of ideas, the sharing of experience. I respect everyone's opinions but stand by mine when my experience says other wise.

[flinstones1]

I see your point here and no, I wasn't taking about you. I personally would not even do a major PCT for a 250mg cycle being it would still keep most of us in the natural level maybe not even shut you done too bad, maybe not at all.
I myself do take much more than that.

I have myself a buddy as we speak taking 8 i.u. hgh ed, 500mg primo ew, 40mg anavar ed, and 1gm test a week, and 100 mcg clen ed.... 5 weeks in and he looks like total shit, worse than when he started imo. No amount of drugs can replace dedication and consistansy in training and dieting. When you got someone who has his bases covered give him some d-bol, test and deca and a few years of moderate cycles you can have an execellent bber's physique

It feels to me we are being hypocritical when we tell these first time newbs, 'dude these are powerful drugs man do your reseach' but are telling them that taking a much more moderate dose in stupid. I say to all those that approach me, 'take this, see how you feel in 5 weeks if it going good bump it up a couple 100 mg o whatever, see what thats like...' I'm just worried when people feel there is some kind of minimum... when there isn't really any scientific research that says so, merely anecdotal.

Again, I am only speaking from my experience and from my knowledge base.
I been reading this board for a very long time and love the debate and exchange of ideas, the sharing of experience. I respect everyone's opinions but stand by mine when my experience says other wise.

..

good post will take this advice an apply it to myself