Author Topic: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !  (Read 2428 times)

Straw Man

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2011, 09:34:45 AM »
The problem is all of these bullshit things.

No one is against the premise of insurance companies having to allow preexisting conditions and no one would be against guaranteeing children having access to insurance, or people being on their parents insurance a little longer.

It's all the business mandates that the people are upset by.

yeah and when you look at the details you see that most people who can't afford insurance would have low cost options made available to them and would also be exempt for any penalty for not having insurance.

The mandate/penalty would only apply to those people who can afford insurance but choose not to have it and I have a solution for them with the one time "opt out"

you "opt out" and you never have access to the program and never have a penalty.

You're still free to purchase private insurance on your own or choose to participate in an employee sponsored plan but you don't have the option to forego medical insurance and then get access to the program once you (inevitably) become sick or injured

Soul Crusher

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2011, 09:35:24 AM »

Straw Man

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2011, 09:40:55 AM »

BS - we are all on the hook for GM losses so my analogy is perfect.   

BTW - should the Govt be able to mandate that people buy a certain amount of veges? 

Being on the hook for GM is the same as being on the hook for Iraq, Afghanistan, The Bush Tax Cuts, etc....

No one can cause me financial harm if they don't have a car

Someone (such as yourself at one time or Corporate Persons such as Wal Mart) who choose not to have insurance are requiring the rest of society to pay for your health insurance.  

if You don't have a car it doesn't cost me an extra cent

btw- the gov SHOULD promote the consupmtion of veggies and should STOP promoting (and subsidizing) the consumption of beef, dairy and corn products

the long term effect of that simple change would probably save of billions of dollars (if not hundreds of billions)  in health care expense

Soul Crusher

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2011, 09:42:25 AM »
Being on the hook for GM is the same as being on the hook for Iraq, Afghanistan, The Bush Tax Cuts, etc....

No one can cause me financial harm if they don't have a car

Someone (such as yourself at one time or Corporate Persons such as Wal Mart) who choose not to have insurance are requiring the rest of society to pay for your health insurance.  

if You don't have a car it doesn't cost me an extra cent

btw- the gov SHOULD promote the consupmtion of veggies and should STOP promoting (and subsidizing) the consumption of beef, dairy and corn products

the long term effect of that simple change would probably save of billions of dollars (if not hundreds of billions)  in health care expense


Why cant I pay out of pocket for medical services?   

tu_holmes

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2011, 09:43:13 AM »

Why cant I pay out of pocket for medical services?   

I'm assuming you can, but that shit is expensive.

Straw Man

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2011, 09:43:58 AM »


and, at that time, what was Obama promoting as an alternative to the mandate

I'm sure you have that video and it's probably in the segment preceding the point where your clip started

can you tell us what his option at that time was?

Straw Man

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2011, 09:44:42 AM »

Why cant I pay out of pocket for medical services?   

Why do you think you can't?


Soul Crusher

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2011, 09:46:44 AM »
I'm assuming you can, but that shit is expensive.

Why is that?   

Soul Crusher

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2011, 09:47:42 AM »
Why do you think you can't?



Because if there is a mandate - i have to pay out the ass for expensive BS insurance that covers all sorts of bullshit I will NEVER EVER possibly need. 

tu_holmes

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2011, 09:48:56 AM »
Why is that?   


I don't know... It's been expensive as long as I've been alive.

Obama certainly didn't do that.

Straw Man

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2011, 09:50:11 AM »
Why is that?   

no one is stopping you now or in the future from paying for health care costs of out of pocket


Soul Crusher

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2011, 09:53:24 AM »

I don't know... It's been expensive as long as I've been alive.

Obama certainly didn't do that.


Schiff has done a lot on this.   When the govt started getting involved in this shit - prices skyrocketed because the govt became on the major payors of health care.   Providers could charge higher and higher prices and get away with it and order all sorts of tests and bullshit because the patient was not paying for it directly.   

Same crap with school loans.   

The pricing mechanism has gotten way out of control because of the govt intereference in the market. 


The areas that are freeist you keep getting lower prices and better quality and vice versa w the govt.   


The US govt regulated how Apple made its ipad - how much do you think it would cost? 
 

tu_holmes

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2011, 09:56:28 AM »

Schiff has done a lot on this.   When the govt started getting involved in this shit - prices skyrocketed because the govt became on the major payors of health care.   Providers could charge higher and higher prices and get away with it and order all sorts of tests and bullshit because the patient was not paying for it directly.   

Same crap with school loans.   

The pricing mechanism has gotten way out of control because of the govt intereference in the market. 


The areas that are freeist you keep getting lower prices and better quality and vice versa w the govt.   


The US govt regulated how Apple made its ipad - how much do you think it would cost? 
 

Do you not think that the provider is also partly to blame?

Follow me here.

If I am a surgeon, let's say... And I charge 2,000.00 for a procedure.

The government becomes the primary payer... Why do I then get the right to start charging 20,000.00 for the same procedure just because the government is the payer?

I don't understand how that's logical.

The government took over payments, so I am entitled to charge more?

Straw Man

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2011, 10:00:28 AM »
Because if there is a mandate - i have to pay out the ass for expensive BS insurance that covers all sorts of bullshit I will NEVER EVER possibly need. 

you don't have to change one damn thing that you're currently doing

Soul Crusher

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2011, 10:00:58 AM »
Do you not think that the provider is also partly to blame?

Follow me here.

If I am a surgeon, let's say... And I charge 2,000.00 for a procedure.

The government becomes the primary payer... Why do I then get the right to start charging 20,000.00 for the same procedure just because the government is the payer?

I don't understand how that's logical.

The government took over payments, so I am entitled to charge more?


That is the symptom, not the problem.   If the patient had to negotiate directly with the provider - he/she could not get away with that.  

I see old people who abuse medicare like you cant believe - its wrong!  Many wealth seniors use Medicare like a day at the park and everyone has to pay for it.  

The pricing mechanism has gotten distorted.  

Additionally - state govts are also fucking up the system.   For example in NYS where i live - you cant have a catastrophic type plan, and everyone gets forced into crazy expensive shit that mandates coverage on stuff most people will ever need!

Soul Crusher

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2011, 10:01:42 AM »
you don't have to change one damn thing that you're currently doing

Clueless.   You have no fucking clue about this, or anything else for that matter.   


Straw Man

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2011, 10:04:12 AM »
Clueless.   You have no fucking clue about this, or anything else for that matter.   

you've got to be joking or completely misininformed

if you have insurance now then nothing will change for you

you keep doing what you've always done only your insurance has limits on how much they can raise your premium, and limits on how they can restrict your access to healthcare

that's it

nothing changes for you except for the better

tu_holmes

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2011, 10:05:13 AM »

That is the symptom, not the problem.   If the patient had to negotiate directly with the provider - he/she could not get away with that.   


Why not? If you need to get an operation, you're gonna pay to save your life... Even if you're in debt for the next 500 years.

People get huge bills with no insurance already because they have no insurance and have to pay the bill.

Quote

I see old people who abuse medicare like you cant believe - its wrong!  Many wealth seniors use Medicare like a day at the park and everyone has to pay for it. 

The pricing mechanism has gotten distorted. 

Additionally - state govts are also fucking up the system.   For example in NYS where i live - you cant have a catastrophic type plan, and everyone gets forced into crazy expensive shit that mandates coverage on stuff most people will ever need!

This may be true, but don't most people get the insurance they feel they have to get?

Would you have less coverage if you had an opportunity?

I've got kids and I don't know if I would take that chance.

When I was single, I had no insurance... Didn't need it, but with kids, yeah, I'm protecting them as best as possible.

If we get rid of health insurance mandates, can I also get rid of auto insurance mandates too?

:)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2011, 10:07:00 AM »
Why not? If you need to get an operation, you're gonna pay to save your life... Even if you're in debt for the next 500 years.

People get huge bills with no insurance already because they have no insurance and have to pay the bill.

This may be true, but don't most people get the insurance they feel they have to get?

Would you have less coverage if you had an opportunity?

I've got kids and I don't know if I would take that chance.

When I was single, I had no insurance... Didn't need it, but with kids, yeah, I'm protecting them as best as possible.

If we get rid of health insurance mandates, can I also get rid of auto insurance mandates too?

:)


You are not forced to drive or buy a car.   

howardroark

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2011, 10:07:53 AM »
Okay guys, basic economics.

The supply of health care is what economists call "inelastic," meaning that the supply is more-or-less fixed: a large increase in demand calls forth only a very small increase in supply, meaning that prices have to increase drastically in order to equilibrate (balance-out) supply and demand. Why? Because there are only so many doctors, nurses, hospitals, clinics, hours in the day to treat people, etc. etc. It's very, very difficult to expand the supply for health care, since that essentially means sending people to school for at least 8 years, and that's not counting all the other shit people have to do in order to become MDs.

Anyway, government intervention via Medicare, Medicaid, tax breaks, mandates, etc. end up pushing the demand for health care upwards... but since the supply is relatively inelastic, the prices for health care have to skyrocket in order to call forth the additional supply necessary to supply the few people who otherwise would not have had access to health care.

If the government got out of the health care market, then health care prices would fall drastically. That is what economists call a "demand-side solution." Though this might prevent SOME people from getting necessary health care, for the most part it would eliminate unnecessary health care expenditures that people make because they don't face the cost of doing so (this is the problem with third-party insurance).

However, there is also a "supply-side solution:" remove all of regulations which are choking off health care supply. Licensure laws and regulations limiting where and how many hospitals are built are good examples of this.

Government plans such as Obamacare and single-payer systems throw fuel on the fire... They increase demand while doing NOTHING to expand supply. The result is even higher costs for health care, which either end up being paid through government (and thus higher taxes with a premium for all the inefficiencies found in government) OR they end up being paid indirectly by individuals, via waiting lists and so forth.

tu_holmes

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2011, 10:08:17 AM »

You are not forced to drive or buy a car.   

In the US, unless you live in NYC, Chicago, Philly, DC, or Boston, you HAVE to drive to get anywhere... like work.

All of these Occupiers that are sitting around have no jobs and probably are carless... the worker bees of society have to drive.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2011, 10:11:00 AM »
In the US, unless you live in NYC, Chicago, Philly, DC, or Boston, you HAVE to drive to get anywhere... like work.

All of these Occupiers that are sitting around have no jobs and probably are carless... the worker bees of society have to drive.

False - the owner of the car has to have insurance, not the driver.   you can get a drivers' license without getting insurance.   

Soul Crusher

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2011, 10:13:07 AM »

Soul Crusher

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2011, 10:20:12 AM »



STRAW - WTF IS SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS?   

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Re: Mitt Romney - F U ! ! !
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2011, 10:21:02 AM »
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