Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting

[Archer77]

being followed doesnt give you the right to assault someone

It might according to Florida law.

[Shockwave]

I'm not saying I don't understand. I'm saying that there's a lot of things that zimmerman did to instigate the confrontation.

He did, yes. The way I look at it, is that neither of them did anything illegal up until the point of the physical conflict. If it was up to me, id think that it would come down to which person initiated the physical assault.

[tonymctones]

He did, yes. The way I look at it, is that neither of them did anything illegal up until the point of the physical conflict. If it was up to me, id think that it would come down to which person initiated the physical assault.

agreed

[tu_holmes]

He did, yes. The way I look at it, is that neither of them did anything illegal up until the point of the physical conflict. If it was up to me, id think that it would come down to which person initiated the physical assault.

It's possible that the jury will see it that way. I'm not saying that I wouldn't. I don't know... The defensive side of me doesn't like the idea of being followed for no reason.

So I can't be as definitive on either side.

[Shockwave]

It's possible that the jury will see it that way. I'm not saying that I wouldn't. I don't know... The defensive side of me doesn't like the idea of being followed for no reason.

So I can't be as definitive on either side.

I agree. Plus in reality we have no idea who started the fight, we only.have the.word of the defendant and.no real.way to disprove it. But what actually happened and what he is going to be prosecuted on are probably two completely different things, somehow I doubt the prosecution is in any way going to deal with reality, they're going to try and convince.the jury that he is a lying, racist child killer.

[240 is Back]

so you have no proof what so ever that trayvon knew about the gun before he assaulted zimmerman?

and you can't prove he didn't.

Oh, and I can't prove the ninjas that attacked flex wheeler didn't do it either.

We are listening to two diffferent tales of what happened. 

[tu_holmes]

I agree. Plus in reality we have no idea who started the fight, we only.have the.word of the defendant and.no real.way to disprove it. But what actually happened and what he is going to be prosecuted on are probably two completely different things, somehow I doubt the prosecution is in any way going to deal with reality, they're going to try and convince.the jury that he is a lying, racist child killer.

I agree... and that's the problem with the charge in the first place.

The charge doesn't fit the crime and THAT is why it should fail.

[Jack T. Cross]

What proof do you have trayvon knew about the gun before assaulting Zimmerman?

There are a lot of reasons that could lead a person to believe the gun caused the fight.

The lengths Zimmerman went through to have Martin questioned, his physical direction, his recorded commentary at that time, the absolutely perfect way a gun lends itself toward accomplishing such a goal - without a single other consideration, could lead a person to believe that the gun caused the fight.

Had he chosen to hold Martin at safe gunpoint until police arrived, he would have ended up on his face, himself, until the situation was secured.  He would have lost his permit to carry in the absence of an extremely good reason for his behavior, and would have likely suffered other consequences including a potential lawsuit from Martin.

So we have a situation where he really wants to have Martin questioned, and knows that the gun has potential to accomplish that for him; but if he's going to use it, he needs to do it in a way that doesn't involve drawing and pointing from a safe distance.

[Shockwave]

I agree... and that's the problem with the charge in the first place.

The charge doesn't fit the crime and THAT is why it should fail.

Agreed, IMHO the prosecution saw the frenzy the media had whipped the citizens into, and tried to use it as an opportunity to launch her/his/whoevers career with a high profile murder case. pretty sad.

[tonymctones]

There are a lot of reasons that could lead a person to believe the gun caused the fight.

The lengths Zimmerman went through to have Martin questioned, his physical direction, his recorded commentary at that time, the absolutely perfect way a gun lends itself toward accomplishing such a goal - without a single other consideration, could lead a person to believe that the gun caused the fight.

Had he chosen to hold Martin at safe gunpoint until police arrived, he would have ended up on his face, himself, until the situation was secured.  He would have lost his permit to carry in the absence of an extremely good reason for his behavior, and would have likely suffered other consequences including a potential lawsuit from Martin.

So we have a situation where he really wants to have Martin questioned, and knows that the gun has potential to accomplish that for him; but if he's going to use it, he needs to do it in a way that doesn't involve drawing and pointing from a safe distance.

so again you have no proof that trayvon knew about the gun before assaulting zimmerman....got it

[Jack T. Cross]

so again you have no proof that trayvon knew about the gun before assaulting zimmerman....got it

Are you arguing that Zimmerman wasn't terribly interested in having Martin questioned, or...?

[Shockwave]

Are you arguing that Zimmerman wasn't terribly interested in having Martin questioned, or...?

Irrelevant.

[Jack T. Cross]

BTW, has anyone seen pictures of Martin's supposed hiding place?

[Jack T. Cross]

Irrelevant.

Please explain.

[tonymctones]

Are you arguing that Zimmerman wasn't terribly interested in having Martin questioned, or...?

are you claiming that if this was true, then it serves as proof that trayvon knew about the gun before he started assaulting zimmerman?

[240 is Back]

are you claiming that if this was true, then it serves as proof that trayvon knew about the gun before he started assaulting zimmerman?

just as YOU have ZERO proof that "trayvon started assaulting zimerman".

We have zero proof either man threw the first punch.  Isn't that true, tony?

[Jack T. Cross]

are you claiming that if this was true, then it serves as proof that trayvon knew about the gun before he started assaulting zimmerman?

It offers an overwhelmingly good reason for Zimmerman to cause Martin to understand the power differential at hand, which, again, lends itself perfectly to the cause.  

Can you possibly attempt to deny this?

[Jack T. Cross]

BTW, has anyone seen pictures of Martin's supposed hiding place?

bump

[Dos Equis]

Only caught a little of the testimony today.  Heard the person who trained Zimmerman to be a neighborhood watchman talk about the training and him.  She said they are trained not to confront people.  She also said Zimmerman was a concerned citizen.  

Still haven't heard anything that supports a murder charge or disproves self-defense, but I didn't hear or read about all of today's events.    

[tonymctones]

It offers an overwhelmingly good reason for Zimmerman to cause Martin to understand the power differential at hand, which, again, lends itself perfectly to the cause. 

Can you possibly attempt to deny this?

so again you cannot provide any PROOF that trayvon knew about the gun before assaulting zimmerman...

all you have to back up your assumption is an if this, then that...

[tonymctones]

"Wendy Dorival, who trained Zimmerman in his duties as the watch representative for his gated community, described him as “a little meek” and someone who wanted to “make changes in his community to make it better.”"

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/haunting-photos-unexpected-witness-defense-day-2-zimmerman-214809362.html

hmmm, meek thats quite a difference than 240 and the rest of the goof troop would paint

[Dos Equis]

"Wendy Dorival, who trained Zimmerman in his duties as the watch representative for his gated community, described him as “a little meek” and someone who wanted to “make changes in his community to make it better.”"

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/haunting-photos-unexpected-witness-defense-day-2-zimmerman-214809362.html

hmmm, meek thats quite a difference than 240 and the rest of the goof troop would paint

Agree.  And the testimony from the 911 operator did not support the contention that Zimmerman was angry.  If you listen to the call, Zimmerman is calm.  The 911 operator didn't believe Zimmerman was angry. 

So far, the prosecution has proved that Zimmerman cared about the safety of his community. 

[Jack T. Cross]

Are you arguing that Zimmerman wasn't fully dedicated to having Martin questioned, Tony?  I'd like a straightforward answer.

[Dos Equis]

Are you arguing that Zimmerman wasn't fully dedicated to having Martin questioned, Tony?  I'd like a straightforward answer.

lol

[tonymctones]

Are you arguing that Zimmerman wasn't fully dedicated to having Martin questioned, Tony?  I'd like a straightforward answer.

as would I and as your question was a response to my question lets have you answer my question first......

do you have any proof that trayvon knew about the gun before assaulting zimmerman?