Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting

[tu_holmes]

Zimmerman was probably being a blowhard dickhead, but that doesn't warrant a violent reaction.

A very similar situation happened to me when I was a kid.  I was driving through a friend's neighborhood with the friend who lived there (female) and two other friends (male and female).
 
Some dude started following us in his car, so I drove around a few turns to see if he really was following us.  We didn't know what the hell he was doing or why he was following us but he was being a major prick about it (practically trying to run us off the road). 

Eventually he cornered us by blocking off the road with his car.  He jumped out of his car and came storming over to my car.  I'm sure the conversation between us went very similar to Zimmerman and Martin. 
He said "what are you doing here?" 
I replied "she lives here!  Why are you following us?"

We told him what street she lived on and he realized he knew the name and IMMEDIATELY felt like a huge asshole and apologized repeatedly.  Apparently there had been someone driving through the area stealing kid's bikes...




Moral of the story is...we acted like civilized humans and it ended in a civilized manner. 
The guy felt like a shithead (because he was acting like one) and got shit later from his wife and my friend's (the girl who lived there) dad.  I'm sure he felt like an ass in front of most of the neighborhood for a while. 

A lot of people in neighborhoods do dumb shit. I was actually sitting on a side road in a neighborhood once, and was on the phone with my Ex-Wife. I was actually 3 houses down from a girl I was picking up to go out with.

This guy comes over to my car and starts talking asking me what I'm doing here. I tell him I'm on the phone with my ex wife and about to pick up someone and I'll be off the phone in a second.

He starts talking something about some creeper dude being in the neighborhood and how he's going to call the cops. I told him to go ahead. I don't care. I'm just sitting in my car. Which as far as I'm aware isn't a crime.

He gets huffy rides off... Straight to the house where I was picking up the girl.

I drive up and the girls brother is talking to the dude and the dude gets all flustered and starts apologizing.

Sure, people do dumb shit, but if you're also not a dumb shit, you can usually get through it.

Shit escalating to a fucking gun fight is goddam ridiculous.

I've been saying this from the start... Zimmerman should have been charged with Manslaughter and is an idiot. Trayvon is unfortunately a dead idiot. Zimmerman should never be allowed to carry a firearm ever again because he's an idiot and he should go to prison for some time.

BUT HE WON'T

Because he was charged with MURDER and not the appropriate crime.

[Shockwave]

Zimmerman was probably being a blowhard dickhead, but that doesn't warrant a violent reaction.

A very similar situation happened to me when I was a kid.  I was driving through a friend's neighborhood with the friend who lived there (female) and two other friends (male and female).
  
Some dude started following us in his car, so I drove around a few turns to see if he really was following us.  We didn't know what the hell he was doing or why he was following us but he was being a major prick about it (practically trying to run us off the road).  

Eventually he cornered us by blocking off the road with his car.  He jumped out of his car and came storming over to my car.  I'm sure the conversation between us started similar to Zimmerman and Martin's.

He said "what are you doing here?"  
I replied "she lives here!  Why are you following us?"
We told him what street she lived on and he realized he knew the name and IMMEDIATELY felt like a huge asshole and apologized repeatedly.  

Apparently there had been someone driving through the area stealing kid's bikes and he decided to be a Zimmer-hero and capture the perps (we were the lucky car full of teens who happened to catch his eye first).




Moral of the story is...we acted like civilized humans and it ended in a civilized manner.  
The guy felt like a shithead (because he was acting like one) and got shit later from his wife and my friend's (the girl who lived there) dad.  I'm sure he felt like an ass in front of most of the neighborhood for a while.  

Exactly. Exactly this. I talked about this to my black coworker, he said Zimmerman deserved to get his ass beat for asking the kid what he was doing in their neighborhood, and that Zimmerman needs to get killed by some "hardcore brothas" for shooting the kid, he said he should have taken his ass whooping like a man since he started it by wondering what he was doing.

[Jack T. Cross]

No doubt - but only when it comes to charges brought against him by the Government. I'm which case, he's innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury in a Court of Law.

But that isn't binding on individuals; they can consider Zimmerman guilty, and don't have to presume him innocent until proven otherwise. The can do the same for Trayvon. And even Aunt Tilly.

It seems a few people have expressed "outrage" that Zimmerman is even in this position, so maybe one or more of them can go into detail.

[doison]

A lot of people in neighborhoods do dumb shit. I was actually sitting on a side road in a neighborhood once, and was on the phone with my Ex-Wife. I was actually 3 houses down from a girl I was picking up to go out with.

This guy comes over to my car and starts talking asking me what I'm doing here. I tell him I'm on the phone with my ex wife and about to pick up someone and I'll be off the phone in a second.

He starts talking something about some creeper dude being in the neighborhood and how he's going to call the cops. I told him to go ahead. I don't care. I'm just sitting in my car. Which as far as I'm aware isn't a crime.

He gets huffy rides off... Straight to the house where I was picking up the girl.

I drive up and the girls brother is talking to the dude and the dude gets all flustered and starts apologizing.

Sure, people do dumb shit, but if you're also not a dumb shit, you can usually get through it.

Shit escalating to a fucking gun fight is goddam ridiculous.

I've been saying this from the start... Zimmerman should have been charged with Manslaughter and is an idiot. Trayvon is unfortunately a dead idiot. Zimmerman should never be allowed to carry a firearm ever again because he's an idiot and he should go to prison for some time.

BUT HE WON'T

Because he was charged with MURDER and not the appropriate crime.

Exactly.  
If there were a proper action-reaction to the situation he would be dealing with the repercussions of overstepping his role of neighborhood WATCHman and wasting Trayvon's time....with worst case scenario of some minor police involvement and the neighborhood reminding him of how much of a prick he is.

Trayvon would be alive and ONLY Zimmerman would be dealing with the results

[240 is Back]

good call, tu-Holmes.

the charge should have been manslaughter.  DA charged murder to force him to plead. He has 6 women on the jury and if he is unlucky, he gets 25 years in prison.

A plead to let the prosecution save face, and zimmerman get 5-8 years in a low security prison (out in 4) could still happen.  He's risking a LOT by not pleading.  Even if the witnesses are idiots, that 911 call is going to be what the jury hears last - and it's going to wash away memory of his fat illiterate phone buddy.  They're going to hear zimmerman calling him names and running with a gun into a showdown where the minor got killed by a wanna-be cop who had trained MMA 3x a week for 18 months.  

I still predict zimmerman will be found guilty by that jury.  It's not comprised of getbiggers.

[Jack T. Cross]

As for John Good, is it wrong to say:

*He did NOT see punching take place.

*He DID see pinning take place.

*He does not know who screamed.

[Jack T. Cross]

I'm trying to find something that would be inconsistent with a struggle over a gun.  Some of you guys that are aware of the finest details, please help me out.

[doison]

good call, tu-Holmes.

the charge should have been manslaughter.  DA charged murder to force him to plead. He has 6 women on the jury and if he is unlucky, he gets 25 years in prison.

A plead to let the prosecution save face, and zimmerman get 5-8 years in a low security prison (out in 4) could still happen.  He's risking a LOT by not pleading.  Even if the witnesses are idiots, that 911 call is going to be what the jury hears last - and it's going to wash away memory of his fat illiterate phone buddy.  They're going to hear zimmerman calling him names and running with a gun into a showdown where the minor got killed by a wanna-be cop who had trained MMA 3x a week for 18 months.  

I still predict zimmerman will be found guilty by that jury.  It's not comprised of getbiggers.

The jury isn't there to decide if Zimmerman initially overstepped his bounds...they're not decided if he was wrong to confront Trayvon.  

They're there to decide whether or not he murdered (legal definition of the charge) Trayvon.  

He WAS in the wrong.  He DID act inappropriately.  But he's not being charged with that.  The jury knows that, will be reminded of that, and will discuss amongst themselves that fact.  

The people who WON'T realize that fact will be the hoards of dipshits who will take Zimmerman's acquittal to mean "he did absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever."  That's the big problem with the case as far as public opinion is concerned.

[tu_holmes]

good call, tu-Holmes.

the charge should have been manslaughter.  DA charged murder to force him to plead. He has 6 women on the jury and if he is unlucky, he gets 25 years in prison.

A plead to let the prosecution save face, and zimmerman get 5-8 years in a low security prison (out in 4) could still happen.  He's risking a LOT by not pleading.  Even if the witnesses are idiots, that 911 call is going to be what the jury hears last - and it's going to wash away memory of his fat illiterate phone buddy.  They're going to hear zimmerman calling him names and running with a gun into a showdown where the minor got killed by a wanna-be cop who had trained MMA 3x a week for 18 months. 

I still predict zimmerman will be found guilty by that jury.  It's not comprised of getbiggers.

We will see, but remember, everyone thought Casey Anthony was going to be found guilty too... Well, except those of us who actually followed it and saw how poor the prosecution was.

This is going down that same road. I don't normally speculate on the outcome of trials, but I'm saying this one goes the way of OJ and Casey.

Not Guilty.

[Shockwave]

good call, tu-Holmes.

the charge should have been manslaughter.  DA charged murder to force him to plead. He has 6 women on the jury and if he is unlucky, he gets 25 years in prison.

A plead to let the prosecution save face, and zimmerman get 5-8 years in a low security prison (out in 4) could still happen.  He's risking a LOT by not pleading.  Even if the witnesses are idiots, that 911 call is going to be what the jury hears last - and it's going to wash away memory of his fat illiterate phone buddy.  They're going to hear zimmerman calling him names and running with a gun into a showdown where the minor got killed by a wanna-be cop who had trained MMA 3x a week for 18 months.  

I still predict zimmerman will be found guilty by that jury.  It's not comprised of getbiggers.

Why don't you just get on your knees and beg hin to plead out already... Clearly its you that's holo g to save face, lol. Because if he walks, getbig is never going to let you live it down, not after years of running your mouth only to end up lookibg like a total moron like the rest of the emotional idiots.

[240 is Back]

self-defense only extends to those who don't start a fight.

OR

those who start fights then decide they want to exit the fight, then the other person won't let them escape.

MAYBE that's how it was... zimmerman swore and ran with a gun into a fight he thought he'd win, given his MMA training.  At some point, the fight didn't go his way, and he decided to exit.  IF trayvon woudlnt let him - THEN he could claim self defense.  But that's a LOT trickier.


They're saving the 911 call for last.  then we learn zimmerman - armed with MMA training - ran with a gun into a situation to demand his bike back.  

I still predict a guilty.  Maybe I'm wrong.  But that jury...

[240 is Back]

Why don't you just get on your knees and beg hin to plead out already... Clearly its you that's holo g to save face, lol. Because if he walks, getbig is never going to let you live it down, not after years of running your mouth only to end up lookibg like a total moron like the rest of the emotional idiots.

it's a message board.  we predict things.  i've been wrong about 10,000 things over the last few years on getbig.  I come here to learn have fun and discuss things, not to "win" arguments.  We're all just still predcting what a jury will do. 

[tu_holmes]

self-defense only extends to those who don't start a fight.

OR

those who start fights then decide they want to exit the fight, then the other person won't let them escape.

MAYBE that's how it was... zimmerman swore and ran with a gun into a fight he thought he'd win, given his MMA training.  At some point, the fight didn't go his way, and he decided to exit.  IF trayvon woudlnt let him - THEN he could claim self defense.  But that's a LOT trickier.


They're saving the 911 call for last.  then we learn zimmerman - armed with MMA training - ran with a gun into a situation to demand his bike back. 

I still predict a guilty.  Maybe I'm wrong.  But that jury...

So let me make sure I understand this.

The prosecution hasn't rested yet and all of their witnesses have helped Zimmerman and NOT the state.

Yet you believe that the 911 call is going to convict him alone... That's it.

A 911 call that you have not heard yourself... You're willing to put it all out there on THAT?

[Shockwave]

it's a message board.  we predict things.  i've been wrong about 10,000 things over the last few years on getbig.  I come here to learn have fun and discuss things, not to "win" arguments.  We're all just still predcting what a jury will do. 

You are incredible Rob

[Shockwave]

So let me make sure I understand this.

The prosecution hasn't rested yet and all of their witnesses have helped Zimmerman and NOT the state.

Yet you believe that the 911 call is going to convict him alone... That's it.

A 911 call that you have not heard yourself... You're willing to put it all out there on THAT?

It's all he has left... All his other theories have been destroyed and thats all that's left to keep him from looking like a total fool.

[Jack T. Cross]

I'm trying to find something that would be inconsistent with a struggle over a gun.  Some of you guys that are aware of the finest details, please help me out.

bump

Has everything so far been consistent with a struggle over a gun, except Zimmerman's words?

[240 is Back]

A 911 call that you have not heard yourself... You're willing to put it all out there on THAT?

Um, zimmerman's 911 call to the police is something most of us have already heard. 

And if you listen to it, or read the transcript, you'll see he was calling trayvon names, admitting he was running away, admitting he was going after him.  All while armed.

if I pick up my gun, tell a cop I'm going to go catch the punk a-hole who stole my bike, run into a dark alley, and there's a fight where he gets killed, I'm pretty ready for prison jumpsuits. 

[240 is Back]

A 911 call that you have not heard yourself... You're willing to put it all out there on THAT?

Have you heard the 911 call yet? 

[tu_holmes]

Have you heard the 911 call yet? 

Nope.

Have you HEARD it?

Did you read the transcript? Words with no inflection can easily be taken the wrong way.

[Shockwave]

Nope.

Have you HEARD it?

Did you read the transcript? Words with no inflection can easily be taken the wrong way.

Especially when everyone involved stated that they didn't believe he was acting out of malice.

[Shockwave]

Um, zimmerman's 911 call to the police is something most of us have already heard. 

And if you listen to it, or read the transcript, you'll see he was calling trayvon names, admitting he was running away, admitting he was going after him.  All while armed.

if I pick up my gun, tell a cop I'm going to go catch the punk a-hole who stole my bike, run into a dark alley, and there's a fight where he gets killed, I'm pretty ready for prison jumpsuits. 

Let's start using some 240-ish leaps of logic.

Young in shape black man running away from fat, out of shape Mexican. Yep, makes total sense 240, clearly the fat Mexican ran him down in order to start a conflict. Makes perfect sense.

[Soul Crusher]

240 has way too much emotionally invested in this case to see the reality for what it is.

[polychronopolous]

Let's start using some 240-ish leaps of logic.

Young in shape black man running away from fat, out of shape Mexican. Yep, makes total sense 240, clearly the fat Mexican ran him down in order to start a conflict. Makes perfect sense.

But bro...Zimmerman had 18 months of MMA training!!!

[Archer77]

Um, zimmerman's 911 call to the police is something most of us have already heard. 

And if you listen to it, or read the transcript, you'll see he was calling trayvon names, admitting he was running away, admitting he was going after him.  All while armed.

if I pick up my gun, tell a cop I'm going to go catch the punk a-hole who stole my bike, run into a dark alley, and there's a fight where he gets killed, I'm pretty ready for prison jumpsuits. 

Trayvon was calling Zimmerman names too.  I agree with you that Zimmerman made horrible decisions but I think your take on this case is extremely one sided. I don't believe that Zimmerman was as aggressive  or Martin as frightened as you're trying to make them out to be.   

[Jack T. Cross]

If Zimmerman felt it was right, justified, important, and necessary for Martin to be questioned, what would stop him from using possession of the gun to accomplish that?