Author Topic: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting  (Read 216211 times)

tu_holmes

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #925 on: June 30, 2013, 09:24:25 AM »
Zimmerman said trayvon was running away- his own words.  We can hear zimmerman panting like a mofo and plenty of fast shuffling on the 911 tape.  He was running too.  Listen to the recording.   "Are you following him?"  "YES".   So that's the evidence zimm was chasing him.

What would you do if an armed man chased you two blocks, then got in your very close space?  ME?  I'm taking that @#*&^* GUN from him.  Period.  I'm scared for my life. I've been chased, flanked, and intercepted.  It's raining and I figure I"m a dead man.  I fear for my life.  Maybe some would freeze, put their hands up and pray he only wanted to rob or question them.  Nope - when you chase someone - particularly a minor - two blocks with a gun, they're scared shitless. 


Also, even WITHOUT knowledge of the gym - Trayvon was prefercly reasonable to feel scared of a man 10 years older, 30 pounds bigger, hopping out of a car and starting chasing him.  That'd scared me.  Seriously, someone exits their car, chases you, then cuts thru buildings to intercept you - you aren't scared?  I'm fcking terrified.  It's not "Hello good sir, how may I help you"?    No, it's serious shit time.

Why would you put your hands up if you don't see a gun?

This is the point you keep glossing over Rob.

You don't know he has a gun.


240 is Back

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #926 on: June 30, 2013, 09:29:54 AM »
Why would you put your hands up if you don't see a gun?
This is the point you keep glossing over Rob.
You don't know he has a gun.

Dude, you're standing at an awning in a public area.  you're on the phone, waiting for rain to die down.  It's dark.

Suddenly, a dude pulls up in a truck.  He stops and stares at you.  Creepy.  You decide to keep moving, you don't want trouble, you're an unarmed twink.  

You start walking, and he drives past you - away from his original path home - THEN HE STOPS!  You start to get really weirded out.  I mean, it's dark and rainy, what does this truck want?  It's not a cop, just some scary looking dude.  You decide to run to get away.  You run a block and turn right.  Truck stays put.  That was weird.  You stop to catch your breeath and start wlaking again, you call your fat hog GF on the phone again.

SUDDENLY, from between the apartments, AHEAD of you, the dude from the truck appears.  You're dogshit cared.  He left his truck and he's running thru yards now?  Holy shit man, that's SCARY and creepy all at once.  You ran away, you did nothing, you're a skinny twink kid... and this guy left his car?  Yes, you're scared.  WE DONT KNOW WHO STARTED IT NOW>  THERE IS NO EVIDEDNCE WHO DID WHAT.

There's a fight.  He's mma trained and has a gun that you probably notice pretty early, as cold steel inside front waistband with a belly is pretty noticeable when dude is soaking wet lol.  you get lucky and pin down the MMA trained older man who accosted you.  He shoots you.

So why did you deserve to be chased, confronted, and shot?  See where I"m coming from.  He has no info.  He doesn't know why he's being chased.  he's a dumb scared kid.  Zimmerman was armed, had 18 months of MMA training, and maybe he wanted to just ask quesitons.  But you don't corner a pitbull with screams then decide to ask him who ate the cupcakes, you know?

tu_holmes

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #927 on: June 30, 2013, 09:30:53 AM »
You should start writing fiction.

It could be a good career for you.

None of that has any basis in reality at all.

240 is Back

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #928 on: June 30, 2013, 09:32:30 AM »
You should start writing fiction.

It could be a good career for you.

None of that has any basis in reality at all.

i've been watching the trial.  Which sections of this are false?  Specifically... on friday we heard all about how the truck drove past, stopped, and stared, and how trayvon ran to get around the corner then called the fatty back.  then zimmerman emerged. 

Archer77

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #929 on: June 30, 2013, 09:36:52 AM »
Zimmerman said trayvon was running away- his own words.  We can hear zimmerman panting like a mofo and plenty of fast shuffling on the 911 tape.  He was running too.  Listen to the recording.   "Are you following him?"  "YES".   So that's the evidence zimm was chasing him.

What would you do if an armed man chased you two blocks, then got in your very close space?  ME?  I'm taking that @#*&^* GUN from him.  Period.  I'm scared for my life. I've been chased, flanked, and intercepted.  It's raining and I figure I"m a dead man.  I fear for my life.  Maybe some would freeze, put their hands up and pray he only wanted to rob or question them.  Nope - when you chase someone - particularly a minor - two blocks with a gun, they're scared shitless.  


Also, even WITHOUT knowledge of the gym - Trayvon was prefercly reasonable to feel scared of a man 10 years older, 30 pounds bigger, hopping out of a car and starting chasing him.  That'd scared me.  Seriously, someone exits their car, chases you, then cuts thru buildings to intercept you - you aren't scared?  I'm fcking terrified.  It's not "Hello good sir, how may I help you"?    No, it's serious shit time.

You're filling in the gaps with your own fact and justifying them by speculating on the mental states of the two individuals.  You've created a good vs evil dichotomy to fit the narrative you've also created.  The evil Zimmerman intent on causing harm to the frighten running for his life Martin.

Was Zimmerman using the term running to mean Martin was actually physically running or as a substitute for fleeing? The conversation Martin was having with his ugly friend seemed more casual than it would be if he had been running for his life as you like to think.  And if he were running he could have easily out lapped the overweight Zimmerman in seconds.  It seems unlikely that Martin would have rushed a Zimmerman holding a gun.  Why unlikely?  Because that type of scenario hardly ever happens, particularly when a person is petrified.  

What is likely to have happened and is back up by the testimony so far, is that Zimmerman was following Martin who was not running.  Martin became annoyed,not frightened, and after a short time turned to Zimmerman to see what his problem was.
A

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #930 on: June 30, 2013, 09:39:00 AM »
Was Zimmerman using the term running to mean Martin was actually physically running or as a substitute for fleeing?

zimmerman said running.   jabba the hutt said running.

Now who's filling in the gaps with their own facts? 

Archer77

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #931 on: June 30, 2013, 09:39:34 AM »
zimmerman said running.   jabba the hutt said running.

Now who's filling in the gaps with their own facts? 


I was asking.  I wasn't stating as a fact.
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Archer77

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #932 on: June 30, 2013, 09:41:17 AM »
zimmerman said running.   jabba the hutt said running.

Now who's filling in the gaps with their own facts? 


If you judge the hutts testimony by the same standard you judged Zimmermans, you'd have to completely disregard it.
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Jack T. Cross

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #933 on: June 30, 2013, 09:41:31 AM »
lol...240 handling the crackers with ease.

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #934 on: June 30, 2013, 09:42:01 AM »
I was asking.  I wasn't stating as a fact.

i dont think that running part is up for dispute.  everyone said it.  

this week, the prosecution got all their rubbish out.  we dont know who started fight, probably never will.  We know an armed, MMA trained zimmerman was losing it.

But in FL, you CANNOT CLAIM SELF DEFENSE for a fight you cause, UNLESS you are trying to end that fight.  What evidence do we have that zimmerman was trying to end the fight?  We dont konw who said help.  We don't know if he wanted nothing more than to go bottom FIRST, to justify the shooting.  I can easily choose an enemy, start a fight, fall down and open fire...  just because i'm on bottom doesn't mean a thing.

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #935 on: June 30, 2013, 09:42:49 AM »
If you judge the hutts testimony by the same standard you judged Zimmermans, you'd have to completely disregard it.

they both agreed trayvon was running away.  This isn't something we can argue about - "maybe he MEANT something else".

Everyone agrees trayvon was running.  that's not up for dispute.  if we want to shift convo to jabba the hut... we can do that.  she was very entertaining.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #936 on: June 30, 2013, 09:47:00 AM »
Archer, you seem like a harmless person, but PLEASE learn the facts before you make a post.  When you put forward bullshit, it damages the thread.

tonymctones

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #937 on: June 30, 2013, 09:47:34 AM »
LMFAO 240 youre an idiot broham, you need to be girl punted back to reality

George Whorewell

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #938 on: June 30, 2013, 09:49:13 AM »
Watching 240 do mental gymnastics as the entire board owns him is quite entertaining.

The solution to the Trayvon Martin case is banning guns and passing amnesty.

Archer77

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #939 on: June 30, 2013, 09:49:18 AM »
they both agreed trayvon was running away.  This isn't something we can argue about - "maybe he MEANT something else".

Everyone agrees trayvon was running.  that's not up for dispute.  if we want to shift convo to jabba the hut... we can do that.  she was very entertaining.


The fact is jabba the neck wasn't there and is clearly biased so her testimony means shit to me.  Now Zimmerman said he was running and that's hard to dispute.  I'm curious how its possible Zimmerman caught up if Martin was running.  On foot or in a car, it would have been hard for Zimmerman to keep up.

I still think there is zero evidence Martin was aware Zimmerman had a gun until after the s uncle,if at all.  He didnt mention it to fattie.
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Archer77

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #940 on: June 30, 2013, 09:49:53 AM »
Archer, you seem like a harmless person, but PLEASE learn the facts before you make a post.  When you put forward bullshit, it damages the thread.

You must be tbombz.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #941 on: June 30, 2013, 09:51:38 AM »
i dont think that running part is up for dispute.  everyone said it.  

this week, the prosecution got all their rubbish out.  we dont know who started fight, probably never will.  We know an armed, MMA trained zimmerman was losing it.

But in FL, you CANNOT CLAIM SELF DEFENSE for a fight you cause, UNLESS you are trying to end that fight.  What evidence do we have that zimmerman was trying to end the fight?  We dont konw who said help.  We don't know if he wanted nothing more than to go bottom FIRST, to justify the shooting.  I can easily choose an enemy, start a fight, fall down and open fire...  just because i'm on bottom doesn't mean a thing.

Tray on started the fight by clocking zimm first.   Called him a crazy ass cracker too

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #942 on: June 30, 2013, 10:42:56 AM »
This thread is turning to shit. You can't argue with people that ignore the facts and use whatever hair brained ideas that they pull out of their assholes, there is no point in even engaging Jack or 240 anymore.

Just point out how wrong 240 is, and how much he looks like a moron, and let him own himself into oblivion every time he posts. His mental gymnastics are epic to watch.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #943 on: June 30, 2013, 01:23:14 PM »
Brothers, this is some information.  It is from Wikipedia, so it is whatever it is.  I haven't read it yet, so if you see something you know is wrong, please don't blame me - just point it out.

Thought maybe we could kindle some new, different arguments:


********************

Sanford Police Investigation

Police officer Timothy Smith arrived at the scene at approximately 7:17 PM. He reported finding Zimmerman standing near Martin, who was lying face down in the grass and unresponsive.[15][18] At that time, Zimmerman stated to Smith that he had shot Martin and was still armed. Smith handcuffed Zimmerman and removed his weapon from him. Smith observed that Zimmerman's back was wet and covered with grass and he was bleeding from the nose and the back of his head.[15][105]

Ricardo Ayala, the second officer to arrive that night, noticed Officer Smith had Zimmerman in custody, then observed Martin lying face down in the grass and attempted to get a response from him. At this time, Sgt. Anthony Raimondo arrived and together with Ayala began CPR. Paramedics from Sanford Fire and Rescue arrived and continued CPR, finally declaring Martin dead at 7:30 PM.[15]

Other officers who had arrived by this time secured the area and made contact with neighbors in the area and obtained statements from witnesses at the scene. They did not realize Zimmerman had been in a vehicle, however, so it was moved before they could seize it.[106] Zimmerman was treated and released by paramedics while still at the scene of the incident.[15][105] After placing Zimmerman in his police vehicle, Officer Smith heard Zimmerman say, "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."[15][107] Zimmerman was then transported to the Sanford Police Department where he was questioned by investigators for approximately five hours.[15][19] The police determined that Zimmerman yelled for help at least 14 times in a 38 second span.[108] The question of who was calling for help has been disputed since then by others and remains inconclusive. (See Background sounds of yelling for help in 9-1-1 calls)

Martin's body was taken to the morgue, where he was tagged as a John Doe as he was not carrying any identification.[21] Martin's father, Tracy Martin, called to file a Missing Persons report early on February 27 and police officers arrived at his fiancιe's condo with photographs of his dead son about 9:20 am.[21][109]
George Zimmerman with a bloody, swollen nose in the back seat of a police car on the night of the shooting.[110][111]
The back of Zimmerman's head at the police station.[112]

Zimmerman was handcuffed at the scene of the shooting and taken to the Sanford police station for questioning, arriving there at 7:52 p.m. according to a police video.[113] His gun, a black Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm semi-automatic pistol, taken from him by Officer Smith at the scene, was placed into evidence.[16][114]

Zimmerman was interviewed by Investigator D. Singleton and by Detective Chris Serino on the night of the shooting.[15][115] He also underwent voice stress analysis, a type of lie detector test, on the night of the shooting.[106] Crime Scene Tech D. Smith photographed his injuries and hands and collected gun shot residue. Zimmerman's clothes were taken as evidence after his wife arrived with a change of clothes.[116] The day after the shooting, Zimmerman performed a videotaped reenactment of the incident for police.[106]

Zimmerman was not given a drug or alcohol test.[18] Peter Bella, a retired Chicago Police forensic investigator, told The Washington Times, "Except for DUIs, police cannot test suspects for drugs or alcohol, unless the accused demands or consents to it, or they get a warrant".[117][118][119] The police did not suspect that Zimmerman was under the influence of drugs or alcohol, and he was never asked to take such a test.

The Martin family alleged that Seminole County Attorney Wolfinger met personally with Sanford Chief Lee on the night of the shooting and instructed Lee not to make an arrest. Based on their accusation, the Martin family requested that the Justice Department investigate the State prosecutor's office. Wolfinger responded that the accusations were "outright lies" and denied that any such meeting or communication took place. Wolfinger's office reported that the Sanford police consulted with Kelly Jo Hines, the prosecutor on call the night of the shooting, but it has not been disclosed what was talked about.[120]

On March 12, 2012, Police Chief Lee turned the investigation over to the State Attorney's office for review.[121] Lee said there was not enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman. "In this case Mr. Zimmerman has made the statement of self-defense," Lee said. "Until we can establish probable cause to dispute that, we don't have the grounds to arrest him." In response to criticisms of the investigation, Lee responded that "We are taking a beating over this" and defended the investigation.[122] "This is all very unsettling. I'm sure if George Zimmerman had the opportunity to relive Sunday, February 26, he'd probably do things differently. I'm sure Trayvon would, too."[71]

On March 13, 2012, Chris Serino sent a capias request to the state's attorney recommending charges of negligent manslaughter against Zimmerman, though Serino maintains he did not believe they had the evidence to support those charges and that manslaughter was only included in the capias in order for the prosecutor's office to continue with their own investigation.[123][124][125][126] The capias states, "the encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and waited the arrival of law enforcement or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern". "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter."[127] The State Attorney's office initially determined there was insufficient evidence to charge Zimmerman and did not file charges based on the capias request.[126][128][129]

On March 16, Serino told the Orlando Sentinel that his investigation had turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account, that he had acted in self-defense. "The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event, everything I have is adding up to what he says."[130]
Further investigation

On March 20, 2012, State attorney Norm Wolfinger announced that a Seminole County grand jury would be convened on April 10 to investigate the death of Martin.[131][132][133] However, after State Attorney Angela Corey was assigned to the case by Florida Governor Rick Scott on March 22, she decided that her office would decide whether to press charges. "I always lean towards moving forward without needing the grand jury in a case like this, I foresee us being able to make a decision, and move on it on our own."[134]

Governor Scott asked the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) to investigate the shooting[135][136] and Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi confirmed that the FDLE was involved and stated "no stone will be left unturned in this investigation."[132]

On March 20, 2012, the Justice Department announced that it was opening investigations into the incident.[137] The FBI opened a parallel investigation into whether Martin's civil rights were violated, interviewed witnesses, and looked into Zimmerman's background.[138]

On July 12, interviews conducted by the FBI were publicly released. The Sanford Police Department's lead investigator, Chris Serino, told FBI agents that he believed Zimmerman's actions were not based on Martin's race, but instead on Martin's attire, the circumstances of the encounter, and previous burglaries in the neighborhood. Zimmerman's neighbors and co-workers were interviewed as well. Neighbors who knew Zimmerman had nothing derogatory to say about him and his co-workers were complimentary of him.[139]

Serino also told the FBI that he had felt pressure from three officers within the department to charge Zimmerman although he "did not believe he had enough evidence at the time to file charges", and accused one of these officers of being friendly with Martin's father. He also expressed concern to the FBI about possible leaks of evidence to the media from within the department.[140]
Martin's autopsy report

The Volusia County medical examiner found that Martin was killed by an injury resulting from a single gunshot to the chest, fired at "intermediate range," between 1 and 18 inches according to a forensic expert.[141][Note 5] An FDLE analysis of Martin's body and clothes described the distance as "a contact shot".[142] The autopsy also found that Martin had one small abrasion on his left ring finger below the knuckle. No other injuries were found on Martin's body at the time of his death.[141] Physicians who reviewed the official autopsy report for the Orlando Sentinel, stated in their opinion that Martin lived anywhere from 20 seconds to several minutes after he was shot, and that Martin likely remained conscious "for a time anyway."[143]

The autopsy report stated that Martin had trace levels of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, in his blood and urine.[144][145] The toxicology report found the levels to be 1.5 nanograms/ml of THC and 7.3 nanograms/ml of THC-COOH, a metabolite of THC that can stay in the system for weeks after cannabis has been smoked.[144][145] Larry Kobilinsky, a professor of forensic science, stated that the THC amount was so low that it may have been ingested days earlier and played no role in Martin's behavior.[146]
Witness accounts

         9-1-1 calls[147]
       (start times are
       hr:min:sec PM EST)
    • 7:16:11 "Help" and gunshot in background   
    • 7:16:41 reports screaming and gun shot   
    • 7:17:08 reports screaming "Help" and gunshot   
    • 7:17:15 distraught caller   
    • 7:17:54 reports gun shot   
    • 7:18:00 reports yelling "Help"   
    • 7:19:04 brother of caller was witness   
    Problems listening to the files? See media help.

Recordings of eight calls to the police made on the night of the shooting were released by the Sanford police on March 17, 2012.[95][148]

A witness to the confrontation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and punching him, while Zimmerman was yelling for help. This witness, who identified himself as "John", stated that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911".[149] He went on to say that when he got upstairs and looked down, "the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.".[149][150]

A 13-year-old boy walking his dog saw a man on the ground shortly before the shooting and identified him as wearing red.[151][152][153] His mother later disputed the testimony and claimed that the police pressured him into choosing the color that the man was wearing and that her son could not see any details in the dark. She also stated that the police waited five days before requesting to even question her son and said that the lead homicide investigator told her that he did not believe the shooting was self defense.[154][155]

Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla, appeared on AC 360, and Cutcher stated that she believes that "there was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling" just prior to the shooting but admitted that she neither saw the shooting nor the preceding altercation.[156][157][158] Cutcher and her roommate heard the pair in their backyard and a "very young voice" whining, with no sounds of a fight. They heard a gunshot; the crying stopped immediately, and they saw Zimmerman on his knees straddling Martin on the ground.[156][158] Mary Cutcher phoned police after the fatal shooting and said the black man was standing over another man, although Trayvon Martin was already dead.[32] According to the Orlando Sentinel article, "Police spokesman Sgt. Dave Morgenstern [on March 15] issued a statement disputing Cutcher's version of events, calling her statements to WFTV "inconsistent with her sworn testimony to police."[159] However, Cutcher and her roommate maintain that their account of the incident to the police did not agree with Zimmerman's, and they demanded the police issue a retraction.[157]

On March 29, 2012, an eyewitness referred to as a male said that he saw two men on the ground scuffling, then heard the shooting, and saw Zimmerman walk away with no blood on him.[160][161] The witness later appeared on CNN AC360 referred to as a female, giving more details on her account. She pointed out that she heard an argument between a younger and an older voice. During the time that she witnessed the incident, the scuffling happened on the grass. She said that the larger man, who walked away after the gunshot, was on top and that it was too dark to see blood on his face.[162]

A witness who arrived shortly after the shooting revealed photos that he took that night that showed "blood trickling down the back of Zimmerman's head from two cuts. It also shows a possible contusion forming on the crown of his head". In revealing the photo to ABC News in mid-April, he noted that he had heard but had not seen the scuffle, had been the first to arrive, and had been the first to talk to Zimmerman after the shooting.[17]

One eye-witness statement given the night of the shooting describes "a black male, wearing a dark colored 'hoodie' on top of a white or Hispanic male who was yelling for help." The witness said that the black male was throwing punches "MMA [mixed martial arts] style." After hearing a "pop," he saw the black male "laid out on the grass."[163][164] When the witness was subsequently interviewed weeks later by a different agency, the witness said he thought that the black male was either punching or pinning the lighter skinned male underneath him. He was no longer certain who was calling for help, having not seen their mouths in the dark. He was still certain that the black male had been on top of the lighter-skinned male.[165]
Witness 8

On March 20, Martin family attorney, Benjamin Crump revealed that Martin had been on the phone with a friend moments before he was shot.[166][167] During an ABC News exclusive report, Crump allowed portions of his recorded interview with Martin's friend to be aired. She said that Martin told her that a man was watching him from his vehicle while talking on the phone before the man started following Martin. Martin told his friend at one point that he had lost the man but the man suddenly appeared again.[166][167][168] The friend said that she told Martin to run to the townhouse where he was staying with his father and the father's girlfriend.[167] She then heard Martin say, "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding, "What are you doing around here?" She said that she heard the sound of pushing before the phone went dead. She immediately attempted to call him back, but was unable to reach him.[169] Crump stated that he would turn the information over to the Justice Department because "the family does not trust the Sanford Police Department to have anything to do with the investigation."[166] Martin's friend was subsequently interviewed by state prosecutors on April 2, 2012. During her interview with the prosecutor, Martin's friend recounted her last phone call with Martin and added that Martin had described the man as "crazy and creepy," watching him from a vehicle while the man was talking on the phone.[167] Martin's friend told prosecutors that she heard words like "get off, get off," right before she lost contact with Martin.[167]

On March 6, 2013, prosecutors admitted that witness 8 had lied under oath, when she falsely testified that she had been in the hospital on the day of Martin's funeral.[170][171][172]

Crump had refused to disclose the identity of Witness 8, stating that she was only 16, a minor at the time of the shooting, and asked the media to respect her privacy.[173] It was subsequently revealed that she was actually 18 at the time when she said she was on the phone with Martin.[174] According to the defense, her actual age had been edited out of previously released disclosures.[175] Crump has denied intentionally giving any misleading statements about her age.[176]
George Zimmerman's account of events

On the advice of his legal counsel, Zimmerman did not speak to the media after the shooting.[177] The statements he gave to police investigators were publicly released on June 21, 2012, when Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara, published his written and recorded statements on Zimmerman's legal defense web site.[178][179][180] Prior to the release of the statements, the only publicly available information about Zimmerman's version of the incident came from interviews with some of his family members and friends and from leaks to the news media by sources inside the investigation, and his recorded phone call to 9-1-1. Zimmerman maintained his public silence until he was interviewed by Sean Hannity of Fox News on July 18, 2012.[181][182] According to early news reports on the incident, on the night of the shooting, and afterwards, Zimmerman described in detail for investigators what took place.[183][184][185][186]

Zimmerman said he was driving to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon Martin walking through the neighborhood. Zimmerman's father said that, while his son was not on duty that night as Neighborhood Watch captain, there had been many break-ins and he thought it suspicious that someone he didn't recognize was walking behind the town homes instead of on the street or the sidewalk. Zimmerman therefore called a non-emergency police line to report Martin's behavior and summon police.[187][188] During the call, Zimmerman told the dispatcher that Martin was "coming to check me out."[99] A source to the Orlando Sentinel said in May that Zimmerman told investigators that at one point Martin circled his vehicle,[Note 6] and he rolled up his window to avoid a confrontation.[184][189]

After telling the police dispatcher that Martin "ran,"[190] Zimmerman left his vehicle to determine his location and ascertain in which direction Martin had fled.[184][191] The dispatcher asked if Zimmerman was following Martin, and Zimmerman replied "Yeah." Then the dispatcher said, "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman replied with "OK" and stated that Martin got away.[190] After a discussion about where Zimmerman would meet police, the call ended, and Zimmerman told investigators he was returning to his vehicle when Martin approached him from his left rear and confronted him.[184][185] According to Zimmerman, Martin then punched him in the face, knocking him down, and began beating his head against the sidewalk.[184][185] Zimmerman said he called out for help while being beaten, and at one point Martin covered his mouth to muffle the screams.[184][185] According to Zimmerman's father, during the struggle while Martin was on top of Zimmerman, Martin saw the gun his son was carrying and said something to the effect of "You're gonna die now" or "You're gonna die tonight" and continued to beat Zimmerman.[183] Zimmerman and Martin struggled over the gun, and Zimmerman shot Martin once in the chest at close range, in self-defense.[184][185][186][Note 7]

On June 21, 2012, Zimmerman's attorneys released audiotapes of several interviews he had with police shortly after the shooting. Also included were Zimmerman's written statement of February 26, 2012, and video recordings of his reenactment of the incident and a voice stress test that he passed.[180][178][192][193][194]

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #944 on: June 30, 2013, 01:24:02 PM »
CONT'D:

In the interviews, Zimmerman says he took note of Martin because he was near a home that he had previously called police about. He also said "he was just walking casually, not like he was trying to get out of the rain," and he felt "something was off" about Martin.[189]

Zimmerman said he left his truck to find a street sign so he would be able to tell the police dispatcher where he was. He told investigators that he was not following Martin but was "just going in the same direction he was" to find an address, but admitted that he had also left his truck to try to see in which direction Martin had gone.[191] The altercation began, he said, when Martin suddenly appeared while Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle. He described Martin at different points in the interviews as appearing "out of nowhere," "from the darkness," and as "jump[ing] out of the bushes."[191][192] Zimmerman said that Martin asked, "You got a fucking problem, homie?" Zimmerman replied no, and then Martin said that he did now, and punched him.[195] As they struggled on the ground, Zimmerman on his back with Martin on top of him, Zimmerman yelled for help "probably 50 times." (See Background sounds of yelling for help in 9-1-1 calls) Martin told him to "Shut the fuck up," as he hit him in the face and pounded his head on a concrete sidewalk.[192] When Zimmerman tried to move off the concrete, Martin saw his gun and said "You're going to die tonight guy!" Martin grabbed for the gun, but Zimmerman grabbed it first. He said after firing his weapon at Martin, he wasn't sure at first that he had hit him, so he got on top of him in order to subdue him.[191][192][196][dead link] Bystanders and police arrived shortly after Martin was shot.[197][198]

Police reports state Zimmerman "appeared to have a broken and a bloody nose and swelling of his face." Zimmerman was offered three chances to be taken to the hospital, but Zimmerman declined each time, according to police reports released by the prosecution.[197] ABC News reported that a medical report compiled by the family physician of George Zimmerman showed that, following the altercation with Martin, Zimmerman was diagnosed with a closed fracture of his nose, two black eyes, lacerations to the back of his head, a minor back injury, and bruising in his upper lip and cheek.[199]

In the course of Zimmerman's recorded interviews, Detective Chris Serino questioned aspects of Zimmerman's account, such as Zimmerman's statement that he didn't know the name of a street in the Twin Lakes community where he had lived for three years. Zimmerman said in response that he had a bad memory and takes medication for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.[189] Investigators also questioned the extent of his injuries and why he didn't identify himself to Martin as a Neighborhood Watch coordinator. Zimmerman said he didn't want to confront Martin.[189][192]

On June 26, 2012, the prosecution released the results of a voice stress test performed on George Zimmerman the day after the shooting.[200][201] A voice stress test is a type of test used to measure deceptive or psychological stress in the human voice in response to questions.[202] Zimmerman was asked, "Did you confront the guy you shot?", to which Zimmerman answered, "No." Zimmerman was asked, "Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy?", to which Zimmerman answered, "Yes."[200] The examiner concluded that Zimmerman "told substantially the complete truth" in the examination, and Zimmerman was classified as "No Deception Indicated (NDI)" according to the report.[200]

During a bond hearing on April 20, 2012, Investigator Dale Gilbreath testified under oath that he did not know whether Zimmerman or Martin started the fight and that there is no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that he was walking back to his vehicle when Martin confronted him. Gilbreath, however, questioned Zimmerman's statement that Martin was slamming his head against the sidewalk just before he shot the teenager, saying it was "not consistent with the evidence we found."[203][204][205] Gilbreath was one of two investigators who attested to the facts stated in the probable cause affidavit.[29]

Legal analysts have stated that Zimmerman's credibility could become an issue at trial and that Zimmerman's claim of self-defense rests on whether the jury can trust him "as a reporter of the facts".[206][207] Douglas Keene, a trial consultant and forensic psychologist, stated that in a self-defense case, a jury has to decide "whether or not someone can be trusted to have used good judgment. Credibility is always a paramount issue in any trial," he said.[206]

Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz, who has criticized Special Prosecutor Angela Corey's handling of the case, said he believes that the video reenactment of the incident would help Zimmerman during a trial if it were submitted as evidence and shown to a jury, but he wasn't sure that it would be. Without going into detail, Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump referred to several alleged inconsistencies between Zimmerman's written statement and his recorded call to the police dispatcher.[191]
Zimmerman's first media interview

On July 18, 2012, Zimmerman, accompanied by his attorney Mark O'Mara, gave his first long media interview to Sean Hannity. Part of the interview appeared on Hannity that evening. During the interview he said that he did not regret his actions on the night of the shooting, but he also said, "I do wish there was something, anything I could have done that wouldn't have put me in the position where I had to take his life. I want to tell everyone, my wife, my family, my parents, grandmother, the Martins, the city of Sanford and America: I'm sorry that this happened. I'm truly sorry."[181][182][208]

When Hannity asked Zimmerman why his suspicions were aroused when he noticed Martin, Zimmerman replied in part:

    “I felt he was suspicious because it was raining. He was in-between houses, cutting in-between houses, and he was walking very leisurely for the weather. … It didn't look like he was a resident that went to check their mail and got caught in the rain and was hurrying back home. He didn't look like a fitness fanatic that would train in the rain.”[6][7]

Following the interview with Hannity, Special Prosecutor Angela Corey filed formal notice that she intends to use the interview as evidence against Zimmerman.[209] According to an article in the Orlando Sentinel, Zimmerman's story differed in at least two details from previous versions of what he said happened the night he shot Martin.[209] Florida defense lawyers said it was a mistake for Zimmerman to do a TV interview and discuss what happened that night. One of them said, "It's really baffling what he thought he'd gain from it. I question who's in charge of the defense strategy, Zimmerman or O'Mara".[209]

Martin's parents said they don't accept Zimmerman's apology for killing their son.[210] Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, said she doubted that Zimmerman's apology was sincere. "I have a hard time accepting it because he also said that he doesn't regret anything that he did that night..." Fulton stated.[211]
Prosecution's account of events

The prosecution's account is largely contained in the affidavit of probable cause filed on April 11, 2012 in support of second-degree murder charges against Zimmerman. A conviction of second-degree murder could result in Zimmerman receiving a prison term of 25 years to life.[1] The affidavit states that it does not contain a complete recitation of facts, but presents only the facts to support probable cause for second-degree murder charges. Judge Mark Herr ruled that the affidavit was legally sufficient to establish probable cause.[212] The affidavit describes what investigators allege took place between Zimmerman and Martin on the night of the shooting.[8][29][213][214]

The affidavit states that Martin was walking back from a nearby 7-Eleven store to the townhouse where he was temporarily living when Zimmerman profiled Martin, who was unarmed and not committing a crime.[8][29] Prosecutors stated that Zimmerman was driving in his vehicle when he observed Martin and assumed he was a criminal.[8] Feeling that Martin did not belong in the gated community where Zimmerman lived, he called the police to request for an officer to respond, because he perceived Martin was acting suspicious.[8][29] Investigators said the dispatcher told Zimmerman an officer was on the way and to wait for him.[8][29] In the call, Zimmerman made reference to people he felt had gotten away with break-ins in the neighborhood, and while talking about Martin, stated "these assholes, they always get away" and also said "these fucking punks".[8][29][214]

According to investigators, while Zimmerman was speaking with police, Martin was on the phone with a friend and described to her what was happening. She said that Martin was scared because he was being followed by an unknown male and didn't know why.[8][214] Investigators said that Martin attempted to run home, but Zimmerman followed him, because he didn't want Martin whom he falsely assumed was going to commit a crime, to get away before the police arrived.[8][213] When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and told him an officer would meet him.[29] Prosecutors stated that Zimmerman ignored the dispatcher's instruction and continued pursuing Martin on foot.[212] Investigators said Zimmerman then confronted Martin and a struggle ensued.[8][29]

The affidavit describes witness accounts of hearing people arguing, what sounded like a struggle, and yells for help that were recorded in the 9-1-1 calls to police.[8] According to prosecutors, Martin's mother reviewed the 9-1-1 calls to police and identified the voice crying for help as her son.[29][215] (See Background sounds of yelling for help in 9-1-1 calls) When police arrived at the scene, Zimmerman admitted to shooting Martin in the chest.[8][29] An assistant medical examiner conducted an autopsy and determined that Martin had died from the gunshot.[8][29]

Legal analysts have criticized the prosecution for over-charging Zimmerman, claiming that the probable cause affidavit does not support a charge of second-degree murder.[216][217] Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz claims that the probable cause affidavit may be perjurious if Special Prosecutor Angela Corey knowingly omitted facts favorable to Zimmerman's self defense claims.[216]

Richard Kuritz, a former prosecutor who worked with Angela Corey, said the state attorney had no obligation to include exculpatory evidence in the affidavit. He stated that Dershowitz could face civil action for making accusations that Corey committed a crime. "To suggest that she's committing any crime, Dershowitz is way off on that", Kuritz said.[218]
Background sounds of yelling for help in 9-1-1 calls

In recordings of the 9-1-1 calls, yells for help are audible in the background. Zimmerman's family says it was Zimmerman yelling for help, Martin's family says it was Martin yelling for help, and independent audio analysts offer differing opinions as to who was yelling for help.

In an interview with prosecutors on March 19, Zimmerman's father identified the yells as George Zimmerman's, stating, "There is no doubt who is yelling for help. It is absolutely my son." Other relatives of Zimmerman, including his brother, concur and are equally adamant.[219] During a bond hearing on June 29, the 9-1-1 recording was played in court, and Zimmerman's father testified that "it was definitely George's" voice heard yelling for help in the recorded 9-1-1 call.[220]

According to police reports, after listening to audio recordings of the 9-1-1 calls, Martin's father, Tracy Martin, told police investigators that it was not Trayvon Martin's voice yelling for help.[197] Martin has since told reporters he was uncertain at that time, but that when he heard an enhanced recording on March 16 he was convinced it was his son yelling for help. Investigators interviewed Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, who reviewed the 9-1-1 calls to police and identified the voice crying for help as her son.[215] Investigators also interviewed Martin's cousin who stated that without a doubt "on a stack of bibles" it was Martin yelling for help on the 9-1-1 tape.[221][222]

During the FBI investigation, Witness 45, a neighbor of Zimmerman's, stated he was 110% sure the voice calling for help was Zimmerman's.[223][224]

Independent audio experts vary in their interpretations of the low-quality audio of the phone recordings, which one expert compared to analyzing low-resolution video from a security camera.[225] The FBI was not able to determine whether it was Zimmerman or Martin who could be heard yelling out for help in 9-1-1 calls, citing both poor audio quality and "the extreme emotional state of the person screaming."[197][226] Two expert audio technicians, listed as possible witnesses for the prosecution, analyzed the emergency calls made during the altercation. One analyst reported that he believed some of the cries came from Martin. The other analyst said the quality of the recordings was insufficient for good analysis, but said some cries were likely from Martin and some likely from Zimmerman[227]

Zimmerman's attorneys had requested a Frye hearing regarding the admissibility of the testimony of the audio analysts, to determine if the methods used by them are generally accepted by the scientific community.[228][229] At the time of the hearing, Florida used the Frye standard, but during the course of the case, Florida switched to the Daubert standard standard, effective July 1, 2013.[230] The Daubert standard is generally considered more stringent, and requires more scrutiny before admission of expert testimony.[231]

On June 22, Judge Nelson ruled that the prosecution's audio experts won't be allowed to testify at Zimmerman's trial. The judge said in her ruling that, "There is no evidence to establish that their scientific techniques have been tested and found reliable." Her ruling didn't prevent the 9-1-1 calls from being played at trial.[232][233]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

tonymctones

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #945 on: June 30, 2013, 01:43:20 PM »
Lol so you don't know the facts of case yet you're making assumptions on guilt and innocence?

Answer the question jack: is Zimmerman guilty until proven innocent in your mind?

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #946 on: June 30, 2013, 02:13:30 PM »
Lol so you don't know the facts of case yet you're making assumptions on guilt and innocence??

Are you claiming to have been familiar with this level of detail, Tony?



Jack T. Cross

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #947 on: June 30, 2013, 02:17:48 PM »
...because I've never claimed to be familiar with this level of detail.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #948 on: June 30, 2013, 02:24:07 PM »
Who thinks he shouldn't even be on trial right now?

tonymctones

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #949 on: June 30, 2013, 02:30:29 PM »
...because I've never claimed to be familiar with this level of detail.
How old are you cross? Let me guess you're a college student?