Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting

[Dos Equis]

If you are not following it much how do you know race isn't being used an an issue in this case?

Its sounds like its being attempted or suggested:

That being said, the prosecutors are NOT suggesting race as a motivation but instead profiling?  

So if it was a white guy in a hoody Zimmerman would have followed him too?

They're not suggesting it directly. 

Yes, that's the logical extension of their retarded argument. 

[avxo]

In addition to that, they essentially told him to maintain visual contact, which is impossible if the guy walks or runs away.

Can you provide the part of the 911 call transcript that has that specific request? I haven't really followed this case, and haven't read the entire transcript.

[OzmO]

I said race is not an issue i.e. it has nothing to do with this case (in my opinion)

Zimmerman did appear to be profiling and had something like 40+ calls to the cops but I think only about 5 of those calls are being submitted (I could be completely wrong about that)

ok  i see what you are saying.

[Dos Equis]

Can you provide the part of the 911 call transcript that has that specific request? I haven't really followed this case, and haven't read the entire transcript.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

They asked Zimmerman for Martin's race, age, and clothing, and said "Just let me know if he does anything ok." 

[avxo]

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

They asked Zimmerman for Martin's race, age, and clothing, and said "Just let me know if he does anything ok." 

All of which Zimmerman could have provided (to varying degrees of accuracy) without needing to follow Martin; that's a pretty standard (and reasonable) question from the operator in response to a 911 call to report a suspicious person. What I don't see is "I hereby deputize you. Follow the perp, Officer Zee!" What I don't see is "Sir, I need you to follow this suspicious person until our Officers arrive on scene."

Again, I see no indication that the 911 operator asked Zimmerman to pursue Martin in any way, just like I do not see her saying "don't follow him" either.

[Dos Equis]

If they hadn't he would literally be preaching on a street corner for spare change, chasing windmills.

I think you meant to post this in the MSNBC thread about Sharpton?

[tonymctones]

240 is this the same detective that testified that he thought zimmerman was telling the truth?

[Archer77]

I think you meant to post this in the MSNBC thread about Sharpton?

Oops. I did

[Dos Equis]

All of which Zimmerman could have provided (to varying degrees of accuracy) without needing to follow Martin; that's a pretty standard (and reasonable) question from the operator in response to a 911 call to report a suspicious person. What I don't see is "I hereby deputize you. Follow the perp, Officer Zee!" What I don't see is "Sir, I need you to follow this suspicious person until our Officers arrive on scene."

Again, I see no indication that the 911 operator asked Zimmerman to pursue Martin in any way, just like I do not see her saying "don't follow him" either.

I just gave you the quote.  He couldn't tell them what the kid was doing without maintaining visual contact.  

And there is no evidence Zimmerman acted like he was deputized, etc,.

[avxo]

I just gave you the quote.  He couldn't tell them what the kid was doing without maintaining visual contact.  

And there is no evidence Zimmerman acted like he was deputized, etc,.

He wasn't required to tell them what he was doing. I don't interpret the 911 operator's request as "give us a blow by blow reporter Zee!" When I call 911 to report a suspicious person they ask me what age, weight, height and race the suspicious person is and what he's doing that made me think he's suspicious. That doesn't translate to "follow him."

[Dos Equis]

He wasn't required to tell them what he was doing. I don't interpret the 911 operator's request as "give us a blow by blow reporter Zee!" When I call 911 to report a suspicious person they ask me what age, weight, height and race the suspicious person is and what he's doing that made me think he's suspicious. That doesn't translate to "follow him."

He wasn't required to tell them anything.  He wasn't required to give a "blow by blow."  He didn't have to do anything they said, including follow or not follow, tell them if Martin does anything (the actual request), etc.  The fact he was following Martin at one point is pretty meaningless.   

But again, there is no evidence he continued to follow Martin after the operator said "we don't need you to do that." 

[Straw Man]

He wasn't required to tell them anything.  He wasn't required to give a "blow by blow."  He didn't have to do anything they said, including follow or not follow, tell them if Martin does anything (the actual request), etc.  The fact he was following Martin at one point is pretty meaningless.   

But again, there is no evidence he continued to follow Martin after the operator said "we don't need you to do that." 

yeah, except for the little detail that if he wasn't following him then it's highly likely Martin would have continued walking home and no one would know on this board would even know these guys names

Your statement above about the "we don't need you to do that comment" is hard to understand (though I don't know all the details)

Wasn't Zim in his truck when he made that call and didn't he follow Martin after that ?

Where did the shooting take place?

[Skip8282]

yeah, except for the little detail that if he wasn't following him then it's highly likely Martin would have continued walking home and no one would know on this board would even know these guys names

Your statement above about the "we don't need you to do that comment" is hard to understand (though I don't know all the details)

Wasn't Zim in his truck when he made that call and didn't he follow Martin after that ?

Where did the shooting take place?

I got to listen to some yesterday and today, but it's (near as I can tell) still debatable if he was following him.  He claims to have gotten out of his truck to go see what street he was on (even though he's a neighborhood watch captain and lived there for 3 years).

So, I'm skeptical if Zimm is telling the truth there.  But, I haven't heard any evidence proving his claim to the contrary.  Might have been when I wasn't listening.

I think the jury will have to decide whether he was following or not as I don't think the prosecution can prove otherwise, but it's certainly questionable.

[tonymctones]

yeah, except for the little detail that if he wasn't following him then it's highly likely Martin would have continued walking home and no one would know on this board would even know these guys names

Your statement above about the "we don't need you to do that comment" is hard to understand (though I don't know all the details)

Wasn't Zim in his truck when he made that call and didn't he follow Martin after that ?

Where did the shooting take place?

by the same token if trayvon hadnt run away then the incidents that happend may not have happend either.

At any rate zimmerman following trayvon isnt illegal, him approaching trayvon isnt illegal so in terms of his guilt on the murder charge it doesnt fucking matter so I dont know why you guys want to continue to focus on it.

[Dos Equis]

by the same token if trayvon hadnt run away then the incidents that happend may not have happend either.

At any rate zimmerman following trayvon isnt illegal, him approaching trayvon isnt illegal so in terms of his guilt on the murder charge it doesnt fucking matter so I dont know why you guys want to continue to focus on it.

Exactly.  It doesn't matter.  The only thing that matters is what happened when they came face-to-face, regardless of whether Zimmerman was following Martin, or whether Martin confronted Zimmerman. 

[avxo]

He wasn't required to tell them anything.  He wasn't required to give a "blow by blow."  He didn't have to do anything they said, including follow or not follow, tell them if Martin does anything (the actual request), etc.  The fact he was following Martin at one point is pretty meaningless.

So why do you assert that the 911 operator asked him to follow Martin? The operator did no such thing. The operator expressed no position on whether Zimmerman should or shouldn't follow. Zimmerman made his own decisions.

But again, there is no evidence he continued to follow Martin after the operator said "we don't need you to do that."

As I said, I haven't followed the case closely, so I'm not up to date on all the details nor am I privy to all the evidence so I can't say whether there is or isn't. Let's say I take you at your word that there isn't though. Even then, it seems to me that unless he followed Martin after the phonecall, he would most likely not have entered into the altercation that ended up badly for both him and Martin. But that's all speculation...

Please note, I take no position on the issue nor do I think he's innocent or guilty. I simply don't know enough about the scenario. All I am saying is that it's silly to assert that people assert that operator told him (a) to follow Martin or (b) to not follow Martin. The operator did nothing of the sort.

[Dos Equis]

So why do you assert that the 911 operator asked him to follow Martin? The operator did no such thing. The operator expressed no position on whether Zimmerman should or shouldn't follow. Zimmerman made his own decisions.


As I said, I haven't followed the case closely, so I'm not up to date on all the details nor am I privy to all the evidence so I can't say whether there is or isn't. Let's say I take you at your word that there isn't though. Even then, it seems to me that unless he followed Martin after the phonecall, he would most likely not have entered into the altercation that ended up badly for both him and Martin. But that's all speculation...

Please note, I take no position on the issue nor do I think he's innocent or guilty. I simply don't know enough about the scenario. All I am saying is that it's silly to assert that people assert that operator told him (a) to follow Martin or (b) to not follow Martin. The operator did nothing of the sort.

That's not what I said.  I said "they essentially told him to maintain visual contact," which is supported by the 911 transcript.  I gave you the link and the quote from the link. 

If you haven't been following the case you should go back through this thread.  I've been posting updates/articles throughout. 

[avxo]

That's not what I said.  I said "they essentially told him to maintain visual contact," which is supported by the 911 transcript.  I gave you the link and the quote from the link.  

No. No, they didn't. They asked for the description of the person whom Zimmerman was reporting as suspicious. That should not have required continued surveillance on Martin's part. After all, if he's calling to report a suspicious person he should already have this information available from when he spotted the suspicious person to begin with.

The operator expressed no opinion on whether Zimmerman should or shouldn't follow Martin, and made no request that would have required Zimmerman to follow Martin. At least that's how I read the transcript.

If you haven't been following the case you should go back through this thread.  I've been posting updates/articles throughout.

I'm sorry, but this case isn't important enough to me to justify spending an hour going through the thread and reading details and reports about it. If I were on the jury, I'd feel differently (and I wouldn't be getting my information on this case from getbig either, despite this being a trusted source of news, but that's a different story).

[Dos Equis]

No. No, they didn't. They asked for the description of the person whom Zimmerman was reporting as suspicious. That should not have required continued surveillance on Martin's part. After all, if he's calling to report a suspicious person he should already have this information available from when he spotted the suspicious person to begin with.

The operator expressed no opinion on whether Zimmerman should or shouldn't follow Martin, and made no request that would have required Zimmerman to follow Martin. At least that's how I read the transcript.


I'm sorry, but this case isn't important enough to me to justify spending an hour going through the thread and reading details and reports about it. If I were on the jury, I'd feel differently (and I wouldn't be getting my information on this case from getbig either, despite this being a trusted source of news, but that's a different story).

My interpretation of "Just let me know if he does anything ok," is they wanted him to maintain visual contact.  It's ok if you have a different interpretation. 

I really don't care if you read through the thread.  Was just offering that as a suggestion in case you did want to learn more about the case.  I'm following it because it's very interesting and it's probably going to be one of those cases like OJ that has ripple effects that affect large parts of the country.

[240 is Back]

240 is this the same detective that testified that he thought zimmerman was telling the truth?

correct.  he believed zimm was credible but did have a problem with the one moment of "where were you located when you made that 911 call - and it ended"

He said zimm was at the truck, hung up, and headed headfirst into that battle - not that retreat bullshit story.

[dario73]

Yep.  I also think we're going to see a reaction after the verdict similar to the OJ aftermath that is broken down largely along racial lines.  It's unfortunate, because this case shouldn't be about race.  And the only person who injected race into this situation was Martin.   

And Martin's family.

[Archer77]

correct.  he believed zimm was credible but did have a problem with the one moment of "where were you located when you made that 911 call - and it ended"

He said zimm was at the truck, hung up, and headed headfirst into that battle - not that retreat bullshit story.

You prejudice yourself by saying Zimmerman went headfirst into battle.  Even if he did intend to get into a battle, it was more like a waddled.

[tu_holmes]

And Martin's family.

And the media.

And pretty much anyone else.

[dario73]

They just had Zimm's college professor on criminal procedures on the stand. He stated that Zimm was a very good student and should have known about Florida's self-defense law. He did course work on that defense law. But, in his interview with Sean Hannity, Zimm claimed he didn't know about the law.


 

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

They just had Zimm's college professor on criminal procedures on the stand. He stated that Zimm was a very good student and should have known about Florida's self-defense law. He did course work on that defense law. But, in his interview with Sean Hannity, Zimm claimed he didn't know about the law.


 

Prosecution is beginning to put out their best playing cards.......Defense won't have much luck with him as he did with the Trayvon's girlfriend although they didn't score any real points neither on that.

Zimmerman doesn't have a pot to piss in but I'm interested to see what witnesses they'll put up....likely some teachers or so who'll testify about him fighting in school or something because they have 134 people on the list???