Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting

[Shockwave]

So what im getting out of everything that ive seen and heard, is that zimmerman should walk, the prosecution sucks donkey balls,  but that it will come down to how hormonal the woman are om that particular day, because wont somebody think of the children.

I still think he will be convicted. (Wrongfully from what ive seen)

[tonymctones]

So can you guarantee that the trigger wouldn't have been pulled during a struggle over the gun?

what struggle over the gun?

If you look at zimmermans holster it covers the trigger and guard completely, unless the gun was out of the holster that gun wasnt going off accidentally.

[Jack T. Cross]

they went with the murder 2 charge because the punk DA lady wanted to get re-elected.   it worked.

but they CAN reduce to manslaughter as an option for the jury, correct?  Word on oreilly is that may happen.

If THAT is the case, I'd say it's pretty likely the jury settles on that.   Murder is a WAY stretch to prove.  But manslaughter for 5-8 years?  I could see that happening.

They would still have to show an unlawful death, though.  That's the thing.

[tonymctones]

Are you telling me it would be unusual for a gun to go off during a struggle over it, Tony?  How "unusual" would you say it is?

define the struggle moron, a double action gun in a holster that covers the trigger and guard isnt going to go off without it being pulled out of the holster.

from the account we have of the events, it didnt come out until zimmerman pulled it out to use it....if thats what happend then it wasnt going off prior to him pulling that trigger

[Jack T. Cross]

what struggle over the gun?

If you look at zimmermans holster it covers the trigger and guard completely, unless the gun was out of the holster that gun wasnt going off accidentally.

It could certainly be arranged during a struggle, to see the gun removed, wouldn't you agree?

[Jack T. Cross]

Myself, I'd say the prosecution has failed to do what it needs to do, and it is most likely that he'll walk--unless the women are immediately all on the same page of emotion when they get together alone (which is in the realm of possibility, no doubt about it).

Any conflict between them, and they will have to explain themselves to one another, so there's that to consider, too.

[240 is Back]

dont know if they can or not, if they do I think that would be an option they would consider seriously...still dont know if that is fair or not but would be much more fair than murder 2

i didn't know it was possible - but oreilly, ,HLN and msnbc all predicted this evening that would be the path taken - prosecution would have to offer the jury that, since they have probably shown that, and sure didn't show murder.

Realistically - it is probably fair.  Dude created a shitstorm and really caused the whole situation.  Whatever endangerment, public menacing, etc that he did - armed in the rain chasing a scared minor thru yards - it's a recipe for public danger.  Everyone will claim a win if only manslaughter is found too.  Zimm spends 5-8 in prison.  FOX celebrates because  Murder2 was dismissed.   

[tonymctones]

It could certainly be arranged during a struggle, to see the gun removed, wouldn't you agree?

absolutely...it could be that zimmerman is telling the truth and trayvon beat him up unprevoked and he defended himself, wouldnt you agree?

[Jack T. Cross]

If these women find themselves collectively inclined toward 'guilt', they could agree that the situation didn't rise to a level that would cause sufficient fear.  But, again, that's doubtful without any males to temper the situation.

[tonymctones]

i didn't know it was possible - but oreilly, ,HLN and msnbc all predicted this evening that would be the path taken - prosecution would have to offer the jury that, since they have probably shown that, and sure didn't show murder.

Realistically - it is probably fair.  Dude created a shitstorm and really caused the whole situation.  Whatever endangerment, public menacing, etc that he did - armed in the rain chasing a scared minor thru yards - it's a recipe for public danger.  Everyone will claim a win if only manslaughter is found too.  Zimm spends 5-8 in prison.  FOX celebrates because  Murder2 was dismissed.  

so if a neighborhood watch person walking around stumbles across a person and they get assaulted, the neighborhood watch guy beats the shit out of the guy in self defense...in your mind he is guilty of battery?

[tonymctones]

If these women find themselves collectively inclined toward 'guilt', they could agree that the situation didn't rise to a level that would cause sufficient fear.  But, again, that's doubtful without any males to temper the situation.

having your head bashed on concrete, nose broken, yelling for help with no one coming to your aid...thats not sufficient fear for you?

lmfao another person who has never been in a physical altercation in their life

[Jack T. Cross]

having your head bashed on concrete, nose broken, yelling for help with no one coming to your aid...thats not sufficient fear for you?

lmfao another person who has never been in a physical altercation in their life

Tony, we're considering potential moves by the jury.  Do you understand that?

[Jack T. Cross]

By the way, I know Zimmerman's dad mentioned a supposed comment by Martin, saying "you're going to die tonight".  Is anyone aware of Zimmerman using this in his original statements to police?

[tonymctones]

Tony, we're considering potential moves by the jury.  Do you understand that?

what would you consider more likely, someone agreeing that having your head bashed on concrete, hit in the face until your nose is broken is sufficient fear of grave bodily injury.

or that he should have stepped back in the moment and realized that it was only a little blood and broken nose?

[Jack T. Cross]

what would you consider more likely, someone agreeing that having your head bashed on concrete, hit in the face until your nose is broken is sufficient fear of grave bodily injury.

or that he should have stepped back in the moment and realized that it was only a little blood and broken nose?

So why do you suppose he didn't fight back?

[Shockwave]

i didn't know it was possible - but oreilly, ,HLN and msnbc all predicted this evening that would be the path taken - prosecution would have to offer the jury that, since they have probably shown that, and sure didn't show murder.

Realistically - it is probably fair.  Dude created a shitstorm and really caused the whole situation.  Whatever endangerment, public menacing, etc that he did - armed in the rain chasing a scared minor thru yards - it's a recipe for public danger.  Everyone will claim a win if only manslaughter is found too.  Zimm spends 5-8 in prison.  FOX celebrates because  Murder2 was dismissed.   

zimmerman still loses, from the sound of the testimony he had every right to claim self defense.

[Dos Equis]

zimmerman still loses, from the sound of the testimony he had every right to claim self defense.

True.  They failed to prove any kind of unlawful killing (murder or manslaughter) and failed to prove Zimmerman didn't act in self defense.  Pretty spectacular failure.

But he could still be convicted.

[tonymctones]

So why do you suppose he didn't fight back?

whos to say he didnt?

got rocked early and put on his heels, spent the fight trying to defend himself.

its hard to throw punches when youre trying to mitigate the damage being done. Unlike what you may believe fights dont happen like they do in the movies.

[Jack T. Cross]

whos to say he didnt?

What did our sole witness say?

[tonymctones]

What did our sole witness say?

our sole eye witness?

that zimmerman was on bottom and trayvon was on top making downward striking motions....

[240 is Back]

True.  They failed to prove any kind of unlawful killing (murder or manslaughter) and failed to prove Zimmerman didn't act in self defense.  Pretty spectacular failure.

But he could still be convicted.

because juries often deliver what they believe to be justice, outside of what is the written law.  THis is what i keep predicting.  Won't be a specfic law, but will be punishment for being a dangerous fckup.

[Jack T. Cross]

our sole eye witness?

that zimmerman was on bottom and trayvon was on top making downward striking motions....

We're getting a bit off track, here, but please show me where "striking" motion is mentioned.

[Jack T. Cross]

because juries often deliver what they believe to be justice, outside of what is the written law.  THis is what i keep predicting.  Won't be a specfic law, but will be punishment for being a dangerous fckup.

Like I say, it's possible that these broads will decide that Zimmerman's perception of being in mortal fear is as invalid as every other perception he has shown.  Whether or not that would be true, it offers a path for them to declare guilt.  So it is what it is.

[tonymctones]

because juries often deliver what they believe to be justice, outside of what is the written law.  THis is what i keep predicting.  Won't be a specfic law, but will be punishment for being a dangerous fckup.

you keep predicting?

just the other day you said if its between murder 2 and walking he walks...have you forgotten that moron?

[Jack T. Cross]

It's almost like the prosecution is trying to throw the case.