Joe and Ben accomplished a lot and built an empire from very humble origins. My father, who was a champion golfer in the 50's and also the first golfer to lift heavy weights as well, appeared on one of Weider's early Muscle Builder magazines. Joe and Ben were always decent to me, in fact Joe invited me out to California when I was 15 and arranged for me to train with Mike Mentzer. He's always taken the time to talk to me or my dad at all the Olympias I've been to. In other words, we're people that he has nothing to benefit by, no business deals, or promotions, and still he's a decent guy. Yes, I know Joe was a ruthless businessman, so are most businessman that clawed their way up. And I've never seen any evidence of the Weider's supposed gayness and sodomizing upcoming champs. I find that hard to believe. Love them or hate them, their accomplishments deserve respect.