Author Topic: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board  (Read 88673 times)

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #575 on: March 18, 2014, 08:07:04 PM »
Nah, that thing landed somewhere.

How hard is it to find a sinking plane when so many governments are looking.

The early wreckage reports are just too suspicious to go unnoticed, obviously. It pulled a lot of energy away from elsewhere at possibly the worst time.

And remember, too, it wasn't sinking/sunk:

Quote
(Malaysian Prime Minister) Najib said Saturday that the flight was still communicating with satellites until 8:11 a.m. — seven and a half hours after takeoff, and more than 90 minutes after it was due in Beijing

The Ugly

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #576 on: March 18, 2014, 08:11:04 PM »
Nah, that thing landed somewhere.

How hard is it to find a sinking plane when so many governments are looking.

Dude, the search site is the size of North America. Not as simple as you'd suspect.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #577 on: March 18, 2014, 08:33:34 PM »
Hypothetically speaking, running her out of fuel or coming very near to doing that, would reduce evidence on the surface if it was taken down. The duration with satellite communication roughly lines up with the amount of fuel, too.

But that could be an intentional false diversion if in fact it was landed somewhere. That would mean it was landed and run for the balance of time, it seems (or landed near the point of fuel exhaustion).

I'll say, it's hard to believe there isn't a lot more satellite information than what's been claimed.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #578 on: March 18, 2014, 09:16:39 PM »
The idea is that if the plane went down, and is currently pinging, if we don't find it within the next 19 days then we may never find it. So that's what it is.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #579 on: March 18, 2014, 09:22:48 PM »
...definitely not to be confused with the maintenance ping, which is what was known to have communicated about 7.5 hours from after takeoff.

Roger Bacon

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #580 on: March 18, 2014, 09:42:22 PM »
Former General, Gen. McInerney on Hannity Tonight Believes The Missing Plane Is Intact and in Pakistan
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/03/18/lt-gen-mcinerney-flight-370-could-have-landed-pakistan

Boeing Source: Missing Plane in Pakistan


March 17, 2014

The Malaysian government reportedly is investigating the possibility that missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 avoided radar detection and landed in Pakistan near the Afghanistan border inside Taliban-controlled territory, according to the UK Independent . . . investigators confiscated a homemade flight simulator from the pilot’s home to see if it reveals any useful information . . . the Malaysian foreign minister told reporters that Malaysia asked several Asian countries for assistance in its investigation, including Pakistan . . . Pakistan dismissed the idea that a Boeing 777 could land undetected inside the country but promised to work with the Malaysian government in its search for the missing plane . . . a LIGNET analyst received information from a source at Boeing that the company believes the plane did land in Pakistan . . . Israel is taking the possibility of a terrorist attack seriously by mobilizing air defenses and scrutinizing approaching civilian aircraft, according to the Times of Israel . . . a Boeing 777 requires a lengthy, 7,500-foot runway, and Pakistan has many of them, meaning Flight 370 could conceivably be hidden in a hangar inside the country . . . U.S. surveillance of the area may be able to shed light on the theory through satellite imagery or signals intelligence.

Read more: http://www.lignet.com/InBriefs/Malaysia-Hunts-for-Missing-Jet-in-Pakistan-Israel-.aspx#ixzz2wNeZQ2PR
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Jack T. Cross

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #581 on: March 18, 2014, 09:48:12 PM »
Wonder why Thailand did like they did. What the fuck's up with that.

Roger Bacon

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #582 on: March 18, 2014, 09:49:35 PM »
https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13cv1gohsmbv5jmy221vrfyiz3vdhbop04

The Best Flight 370 Scenario So Far - Theory of an actual pilot

It is in two parts. One was the original part before further information was released, and the other was a update taking into account the new information, and answering many questions posted afterwards.


MH370 A different point of view. Pulau Langkawi 13,000 runway.

A lot of speculation about MH370. Terrorism, hijack, meteors. I cannot believe the analysis on CNN - almost disturbing. I tend to look for a more simple explanation of this event.

Loaded 777 departs midnight from Kuala to Beijing. Hot night. Heavy aircraft. About an hour out across the gulf towards Vietnam the plane goes dark meaning the transponder goes off and secondary radar tracking goes off.

Two days later we hear of reports that Malaysian military radar (which is a primary radar meaning the plane is being tracked by reflection rather than by transponder interrogation response) has tracked the plane on a southwesterly course back across the Malay Peninsula into the straits of Malacca.

When I heard this I immediately brought up Google Earth and I searched for airports in proximity to the track towards southwest.

The left turn is the key here. This was a very experienced senior Captain with 18,000 hours. Maybe some of the younger pilots interviewed on CNN didn't pick up on this left turn. We old pilots were always drilled to always know the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us and airports ahead of us. Always in our head. Always. Because if something happens you don't want to be thinking what are you going to do - you already know what you are going to do. Instinctively when I saw that left turn with a direct heading I knew he was heading for an airport. Actually he was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi a 13,000 foot strip with an approach over water at night with no obstacles. He did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000 foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier towards Langkawi and also a shorter distance.

Take a look on Google Earth at this airport. This pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make that immediate turn back to the closest safe airport.
For me the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense if a fire. There was most likely a fire or electrical fire. In the case of fire the first response if to pull all the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one.


If they pulled the busses the plane indeed would go silent. It was probably a serious event and they simply were occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, Navigate and lastly communicate. There are two types of fires. Electrical might not be as fast and furious and there might or might not be incapacitating smoke. However there is the possibility given the timeline that perhaps there was an overheat on one of the front landing gear tires and it blew on takeoff and started slowly burning. Yes this happens with underinflated tires. Remember heavy plane, hot night, sea level, long run takeoff. There was a well known accident in Nigeria of a DC8 that had a landing gear fire on takeoff. A tire fire once going would produce horrific incapacitating smoke. Yes, pilots have access to oxygen masks but this is a no no with fire. Most have access to a smoke hood with a filter but this will only last for a few minutes depending on the smoke level. (I used to carry one of my own in a flight bag and I still carry one in my briefcase today when I fly).

What I think happened is that they were overcome by smoke and the plane just continued on the heading probably on George (autopilot) until either fuel exhaustion or fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. I said four days ago you will find it along that route - looking elsewhere was pointless.

This pilot, as I say, was a hero struggling with an impossible situation trying to get that plane to Langkawi. No doubt in my mind. That's the reason for the turn and direct route. A hijack would not have made that deliberate left turn with a direct heading for Langkawi. It would probably have weaved around a bit until the hijackers decided on where they were taking it.

Surprisingly none of the reporters , officials, other pilots interviewed have looked at this from the pilot's viewpoint. If something went wrong where would he go? Thanks to Google earth I spotted Langkawi in about 30 seconds, zoomed in and saw how long the runway was and I just instinctively knew this pilot knew this airport. He had probably flown there many times. I guess we will eventually find out when you help me spread this theory on the net and some reporters finally take a look on Google earth and put 2 and 2 together. Also a look at the age and number of cycles on those nose tires might give us a good clue too.

Fire in an aircraft demands one thing - you get the machine on the ground as soon as possible. There are two well remembered experiences in my memory. The AirCanada DC9 which landed I believe in Columbus Ohio in the eighties. That pilot delayed descent and bypassed several airports. He didn't instinctively know the closest airports. He got it on the ground eventually but lost 30 odd souls. In the 1998 crash of Swissair DC-10 off Nova Scotia was another example of heroic pilots. They were 15 minutes out of Halifax but the fire simply overcame them and they had to ditch in the ocean. Just ran out of time. That fire incidentally started when the aircraft was about an hour out of Kennedy. Guess what the transponders and communications were shut off as they pulled the busses.


Get on Google Earth and type in Pulau Langkawi and then look at it in relation to the radar track heading. 2+2=4 That for me is the simple explanation why it turned and headed in that direction.

Smart pilot. Just didn't have the time.

Roger Bacon

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #583 on: March 18, 2014, 09:56:33 PM »
Part 2:
Diego and all who have commented - thank you.

I wrote this post before the information regarding the engines continuing to run for approximately six hours and the fact it seems acars was shut down before the transponder.

The continued speculation of hijack and/or murder suicide and the latest this morning that there was a flight engineer on board that is being investigated does not do much to sway me in favour of foul play until I am presented with evidence of foul play.

My post received a lot of comments on Reddit as well if some of you wish to read those. www.reddit.com MH370.

Now let me deal with Diego's request for my present view in light of new evidence.

We know there was a last voice transmission that from a pilot's point of view (POV) was entirely normal. The good night is customary on a hand -off to a new ATC control. The good night also indicates STRONGLY to me all was OK on the flight deck. Remember there are many ways a pilot can communicate distress - the hijack code or even a transponder code different by one digit from assigned would alert ATC that something was wrong. Every good pilot knows keying an SOS over the mike is always an option even three short clicks would raise an alert.

So I conclude at that point of voice transmission all was perceived as well on the flight deck by the pilots.

But things could have been in the process of going wrong unknown to the pilots -
Evidently the ACARS went inoperative some time before. Disabling the ACARS is not easy as pointed out. This leads me to believe more in an electric or electric fire issue than a manual shutdown. I suggest the pilots were probably not aware it was not transmitting.

The next event is the turn to the SW in what appears direct Langkawi.
As I said in the first post the pilot probably had this in his head already.
Someone said why didn't he go to KBR on north coast of Malaysia which was closer. That's a 6,000 foot runway and to put that plane down on a 6,000 foot strip at night uncertain of your aircraft's entire systems is not an option. I would expect the pilot would consider ditching before a 6,000 runway if still above maximum landing weight which he likely was.
The safest runway in the region to make the approach was certainly Langkawi - no obstacles over water with a long flat approach. In my humble opinion this 18,000 hour pilot knew this instinctively.

Reports of altitude fluctuations. Well given that this was not transponder generated data but primary radar at maybe 200 miles the azimuth readings can be affected by a lot of atmospherics and I would not have high confidence in this being totally reliable. But let's accept for a minute he might have ascended to 45,000 in a last ditch effort to quell a fire by seeking the lowest level of oxygen. It is an acceptable scenario in my opinion. At 45,000 it would be tough to keep this aircraft stable as the flight envelope is very narrow and loss of control in a stall is entirely possible. The aircraft is at the top of its operational ceiling. The reported rapid rates of descent could have been generated by a stall and recovery at 25,000. The pilot may even have been diving the aircraft to extinguish flames. All entirely possible.

But going to 45,000 in a hijack scenario doesn't make any good sense to me.

The question of the time the plane flew on.

On departing Kuala he would have had fuel for Beijing and alternate probably Shanghai and 45 minutes. Say 8 hours. Maybe more. He burned 20-25% in first hour with takeoff, climb to cruise. So when the turn was made towards Langkawi he would have had six hours or more. This correlates nicely with the immarsat data pings being received until fuel exhaustion.

The apparent now known continued flight until TTFE time to fuel exhaustion only actually confirms to me the crew were incapacitated and the flight continued on deep into the south Indian ocean.

There really is no point in speculating further until more evidence surfaces but in the meantime it serves no purpose to malign the pilots who well may have been in an heroic struggle to save this aircraft from a fire or other serious mechanical issue and were overcome.

I hope the investigation team looks at the maintenance records of the front gear tires - cycles, last pressure check and maintenance inspection. Captain or F/O as part of pre-flight looks at tires. Is there any video at the airport to support pre-flight walkaround? Any damage on pushback? A day after I wrote the original post a plane in the U.S. blew a tire in takeoff and the t/o was fortunately aborted with a burning tire.

Hopefully - and I believe now it is a slim hope - the wreckage will be found and the FDR and VDR will be recovered and provide us with insight. Until facts prove otherwise, I would give the Captain the benefit of respect and professional courtesy.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #584 on: March 18, 2014, 10:01:42 PM »
^It's really difficult to believe a single thing would have been done before sending a distress call, though. But I suppose you never know.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #585 on: March 18, 2014, 10:12:22 PM »
...but, yeah, it is interesting.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #586 on: March 18, 2014, 10:17:33 PM »
To think it wasn't possible to send a call...it really stretches the imagination too far. Hard to believe.

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #587 on: March 18, 2014, 10:27:02 PM »
LMAO I was just watching CNN and one of the 'experts' being interviewed by the hebrew host said very pompously, "And let's just put to rest right now these fringe theories that this thing is in a hangar somewhere!" To his credit the hebrew said, "well we need to entertain all possibilities..." but then they proceeded to take the most softball questions from twitters, and the 'experts' only talked about softball theories.

The media is so gone it's unbelievable.

This is all they talk about now on CNN in permanent rotation.
Suddenly Russia and Ukraine are out of the rotation.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #588 on: March 18, 2014, 10:39:13 PM »
LMAO I was just watching CNN and one of the 'experts' being interviewed by the hebrew host said very pompously, "And let's just put to rest right now these fringe theories that this thing is in a hangar somewhere!" To his credit the hebrew said, "well we need to entertain all possibilities..." but then they proceeded to take the most softball questions from twitters, and the 'experts' only talked about softball theories.

The media is so gone it's unbelievable.

This is all they talk about now on CNN in permanent rotation.
Suddenly Russia and Ukraine are out of the rotation.

Yeah, it is so fucked. I can't even watch the shit anymore.

If you stay away from it for a while, then look at it again, you will not believe how fake it seems.

sagittal chest

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #589 on: March 18, 2014, 10:40:50 PM »
Yeah, it is so fucked. I can't even watch the shit anymore.

If you stay away from it for a while, then look at it again, you will not believe how fake it seems.

Yes, that's exactly what happened.
Haven't watched CNN in a long time.

Royalty

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #590 on: March 18, 2014, 11:44:01 PM »
I wonder how China will respond if it is confirmed that Middle Eastern terrorists killed 150+ Chinese civilians in order to obtain a plane.

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #591 on: March 19, 2014, 12:41:40 AM »
I wonder how China will respond if it is confirmed that Middle Eastern terrorists killed 150+ Chinese civilians in order to obtain a plane.

"ching chong, ching chong, ling lang wing wong"

their response, verbatim.

Kwon_2

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #592 on: March 19, 2014, 12:48:39 AM »
I wonder how China will respond if it is confirmed that Middle Eastern terrorists killed 150+ Chinese civilians in order to obtain a plane.

Nuking the Middle East would be a good start! :D

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #593 on: March 19, 2014, 02:22:15 AM »
Nuking the Middle East would be a good start! :D
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #594 on: March 19, 2014, 03:51:03 AM »
Cnn said the battery on the Black box flight recorder is only good for another 19 after that it will stop sending signals , and after that time it may never be found

If its pinging then why cant it be found  ??? ???





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Roger Bacon

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #595 on: March 19, 2014, 04:09:32 AM »
Yeah, it is so fucked. I can't even watch the shit anymore.

If you stay away from it for a while, then look at it again, you will not believe how fake it seems.

Just heard on Fox News that they may have coordinated via radio with whatever remote airport they landed at, and that as we now know the NSA records everything so this may be the solution.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... ............

Roger Bacon

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #596 on: March 19, 2014, 05:01:48 AM »
Connecting the dots: Missing Malaysia Airlines plane a terror attack aimed at China?

Published time: March 18, 2014 09:28

While the terror angle behind the missing Malaysia Airline Boeing 777 plane is being probed, there are several questions which, though unanswered yet, can help in piecing together this jigsaw puzzle.

CIA Director John Brennan made a significant remark on March 12 that his agency has “not at all” ruled out terrorism as possibly having played a part in the disappearance of Malaysian Airlines Flight 370. He also said that there have not been any credible claims of responsibility from terrorist groups for the plane’s disappearance.

Obviously Brennan couldn’t have been unaware of claim of responsibility for the plane’s disappearance by the Chinese Martyrs’ Brigade – unheard of before now. This outfit had released a statement through an impossible-to-trace encrypted Hushmail anonymous service on March 9 saying: "You kill one of our clan, we will kill 100 of you as payback." According to the statement it was a response to the Chinese government for its persecution of the Uyghur ethnic minority.

This implies that the CIA chief attaches no importance to the claim, something which Malaysia's acting Transport Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein has debunked in an on-record statement.

The needle of suspicion over the mysterious disappearance of MH 370 would inevitably point to the Chinese Uighurs if investigators conclude that the Malaysian plane was indeed a victim of terrorism.

The Muslim Uighur community is one of China’s 56 ethnic minorities which is in majority in the restive Xinjiang Autonomous Region. They have had a brief taste of independence as East Turkestan at least twice (in 1933 and 1950) but this independence proved to be short-lived. The Uighurs still harbor ambitions of becoming an independent state, a red rag for Beijing.

However, no such conclusive evidence has emerged yet. The Uighurs have come under the scanner because of ‘circumstantial evidence’. The MH 370 episode has come close on the heels of the March 1 terror incident in which knife-wielding assailants had killed at least 29 innocent people at a train station in the southwestern Chinese city of Kunming.

Also, of the 227 passengers on board MH 370 (apart from 12 crew members) at least 153 were Chinese nationals, a fact that must have been known to the perpetrators.

Besides, Uighurs continue to have links with Al-Qaeda-affiliated group, Jemaah Islamiyah, which has a presence in Malaysia, as well as the Philippines and Indonesia.

Nevertheless, there may be several reasons why the shadowy group’s claim is bogus and is just trying to make hay while the sun shines. First, the outfit has not given any details of the plane which is being searched by 12 countries’ navies. Six days after its disappearance, nobody knows what has happened to the ill-fated plane. Second, it may just be an attempt to whip up ethnic tensions between Uighurs and Han Chinese in China.

Third, hardcore terrorists seldom claim responsibility for their acts, as shown by the University of Maryland’s Global Terrorism Database according to which the perpetrators claimed responsibility for their acts in only 14 percent of the more than 45,000 terrorist acts that have occurred since 1998.

Read more: http://rt.com/op-edge/malaysia-plane-terror-attack-550/

BigCyp

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #597 on: March 19, 2014, 05:04:11 AM »
Guys I know where the plane is, I just figured it out and can't believe this has been overlooked

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #598 on: March 19, 2014, 09:11:43 AM »
.
b

Kwon_2

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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight is missing, 239 passengers on board
« Reply #599 on: March 19, 2014, 09:23:49 AM »
Someone found the Plane!!!