Author Topic: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder  (Read 16786 times)

Dos Equis

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Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« on: May 27, 2007, 08:32:25 PM »
Tough cases.  We're not a death penalty state, so it's not as serious an issue as it could be, but he'll still face life in prison. 

Updated at 4:39 p.m., Sunday, May 27, 2007
Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder

By Rod Ohira
Advertiser Staff Writer

Prosecutors will petition Family Court to waive its jurisdiction over a 15-year-old boy so he can be charged as an adult with murdering a 51-year-old 'Ewa Beach woman.

Honolulu police spokesman Capt. Frank Fujii described the killing as "very well planned, very well executed" in a news conference today announcing the decision to seek a waiver.

The medical examiner's office said today the woman's identity has not been confirmed, but neighbors said she is Karen Ertell.

Ertell's body was discovered Friday at her 'Ewa Beach home on Akua Street after family and co-workers called police when she failed to show up for work.

Ertell was owner of Koko Crater Coffee roasters in Kaka'ako.

Fujii said an autopsy today determined Ertell was strangled, and that manner of death was homicide. Prosecutors will seek to charge the boy as an adult with murder, robbery, burglary, auto theft and other offenses, Fujii said.

The boy was arrested at about 10 p.m. yesterday at his home after his father called police to turn in his son, Fujii said.

A Volvo sedan stolen from Ertell's home was recovered Friday night at Geiger Park.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/May/27/br/br6803472195.html

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2007, 08:33:55 PM »
  Rightfully so. It's time we stopped coddling these moppets.

Dos Equis

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2007, 08:36:56 PM »
  Rightfully so. It's time we stopped coddling these moppets.

I can't really argue with you.  I'm a little torn.  Being in a house full of kids, it's easy to see how much they have to learn and grow and how little they know about life as teenagers.  But some of these crimes are so serious that it's hard to conclude the kid didn't completely appreciate what he or she was doing. 

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2007, 08:36:10 AM »
At 15 years old i donno about him doing life or facing the death penalty even though there isn't one in Hawaii.

BUT.  He needs to be tried and punished as an adult at least in some respects.  Premeditated is murder one right?  Then he should have to  be in prison at least 10 years.  Hopefully 5 of those last years in a prison where there's a chance to rehabilitate him.  I'm not big in the whole rehabilitation thing but in this instance of a 15 year old i believe it's warranted.   

This kid shouldn't be afforded the rights of minor and be released when he is 18.

Dos Equis

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2007, 10:33:44 PM »
At 15 years old i donno about him doing life or facing the death penalty even though there isn't one in Hawaii.

BUT.  He needs to be tried and punished as an adult at least in some respects.  Premeditated is murder one right?  Then he should have to  be in prison at least 10 years.  Hopefully 5 of those last years in a prison where there's a chance to rehabilitate him.  I'm not big in the whole rehabilitation thing but in this instance of a 15 year old i believe it's warranted.   

This kid shouldn't be afforded the rights of minor and be released when he is 18.

Now that I think about it, I believe the U.S. Supreme Court said the execution of minors is unconstitutional, so he couldn't face the death penalty anyway.

Murder one is premeditated.  You would think that a 15-year-old kid could be rehabilitated.  I think a kid can be kept past 18?  Not sure what the max age is?  Twenty-one or so?  Tough to draw lines.     

Hedgehog

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2007, 03:34:26 AM »
Problem is he may go to jail.

I have no problem whatsoever with locking this kid up for whatever time it takes to get him straight.

But the prisons of today, with minimal rehabilition functions?

That's a waste.

FWIW, I have the same view on all sentencings.

I don't have any problem with putting people in prison for a long time, if it means that they will be straight when they come out.

My only priority is law-abiding citizens.

As short sentence as possible is in the interest of the taxpayers, and that can only be done if the time spent is effective.

From my point of view, every year this kid is in prison, the society loses input to the GNP.

-Hedge
As empty as paradise

Dos Equis

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2007, 09:00:40 AM »
Hedge another way to look at it is every year this kid is in prison, one or more Americans are that much safer.  His father is blaming the police for not locking the kid up:

The father of a 15-year-old murder suspect says the killing of an Ewa Beach woman could have been avoided if law enforcement officials had listened to him and put his son in jail.

"He had a burglary in Pearl City. The policeman called me up to pick him up, and I told them, 'Why can't you guys lock him up?'" said the man, who gave only his first name, Petelo, in an interview yesterday.

"They said, 'We cannot because he is underage.'"

http://starbulletin.com/2007/05/29/news/story01.html

Dos Equis

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2011, 11:53:50 AM »
I think 11 is too young. 

JUDGE JEANINE PIRRO: Should an 11-Year-Old Be Tried For Murder as an Adult?
By Judge Jeanine Pirro
Published January 28, 2011
FoxNews.com

Should an 11-year-old who allegedly kills a 26-year-old pregnant woman and mother of two with a shotgun be charged as an adult? That's the question in Pennsylvania.

The facts are simple. An 11-year-old received a shotgun as a gift for Christmas from his dad. He was a good shot, and won a turkey shoot less than two weeks before the shooting -- beating out several adults. The victim was his father's girlfriend who was pregnant with his father's child. The boy and his father were living in the same home with the victim and her two daughters, just seven and four years old.

The issue of children being prosecuted as adults has always been controversial. Our belief that children should be treated differently stems from a society trying to protect those who are young and capable of reform. On the other hand, there are those who believe the punishment should fit the crime, not the criminal.

The United States Supreme Court has held that the purpose of juvenile courts is to seek rehabilitation, supervision or provide counseling. Treatment of juveniles is usually more lenient than for adults. The purpose is to protect youth and guide them to more productive lives, while still holding them accountable to some degree for their actions.

Juvenile court proceedings are generally private and held in rooms separate from adult courtrooms. If the offender is found delinquent, a probation officer prepares a more detailed report recommending a sentence. The harshest treatment is a sentence in a locked juvenile facility.

Historically, the fact that children were treated differently often caused a deprivation of their rights. The United States Supreme Court in 1967 dealt with this issue in a landmark case (In re Gault). There, a 15-year-old was arrested for making dirty remarks over the telephone. He was arrested and kept in custody. His parents were not advised that he was in police custody nor were they advised of the charges against him. He was held in a detention facility for a week. No record of the proceeding was kept; and the witness to whom he made the call didn't even appear in court. He was sentenced to spend the next six years in a state school until he was 21 years old. His parents were poor, did not have a high school education and only had $100, but pursued the matter and took the case all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. There, the highest court in the land, extending rights to children that adults customarily had, overturned his conviction.

The decision to prosecute a child as an adult is a difficult one. I know. I have made the decision to prosecute a 12-year-old killer as an adult. The choice is not about being "hard" or being compassionate. It is about recognizing the evil that accompanies a killer's choice to take the life of an innocent pregnant woman and mother of two, whose children will never get to hug their mother again because an angry "boy" with a gun decided she should die.

Once a decision is made to prosecute a juvenile as an adult, the case is transferred to an adult court. Such a transfer can have serious sentencing consequences -- the juvenile can be sentenced to life or even death (if he or she is over age 18 years old at the time of sentencing).

In the case at hand, the District Attorney in Lawrence County, Pennsylvania has made the decision to prosecute this 11-year-old as an adult. He bases this on the theory that the crime was "premeditated," in that the boy first came downstairs with a weapon and was seen by the victim's seven-year-old daughter.

He reversed course, went back to his room, and put a blanket over the gun. He then returned to the first floor bedroom where his victim was sleeping and shot her in the back of the head.
There are reports that the 11-year-old had threatened to kill his victim and her daughters for months.
His callous action -- throwing a spent shell casing from his shotgun, before getting on a bus to go to school, was witnessed by the seven-year-old girl. That shell casing was later recovered by the police.

A three judge panel of the Superior Court of Pennsylvania met in Pittsburgh on Tuesday to determine whether or not Jordan Anthony Brown should be tried as an adult. A County Court judge already refused to move Brown’s case to juvenile court. If tried as an adult Brown faces life in prison but would be free by age 21 if he was tried in juvenile court.
I agree with the decision to try Brown as an adult because it appears that this boy plotted to kill his father's fiance. He not only threatened to kill her, he, at first, hid the gun and then picked up shell casing before getting on the bus to go to school.
Judge Jeanine Pirro is the host of "Justice with Judge Jeanine" which airs Saturday evenings at 9 p.m. ET on Fox News Channel. She is also the host of a daytime courtshow "Judge Pirro." She is a former County Court Judge and District Attorney of Westchester County, New York .


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/01/28/judge-jeanine-pirro-year-old-tried/#ixzz1CYAitOlC

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2011, 12:04:35 PM »
If it was my mama that this "kid" killed... you bet I'd be willing to try his 15 year old ass as an adult.


In the old bible time, an eye for an eye, the kid would be dead already.  Rightfully so.

Hereford

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 09:28:22 AM »
Nah, I'll bet this woman is not really quite as dead as if she'd been strangled by a 30 year old.

Let the kid go. The womans family should understand.

kcballer

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 09:31:31 AM »
I think a tough sentence is in order, but certainly not life without parole or anything like that. 
Abandon every hope...

Dos Equis

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2011, 09:42:58 AM »
Nah, I'll bet this woman is not really quite as dead as if she'd been strangled by a 30 year old.

Let the kid go. The womans family should understand.

Where would you draw the line?  What age?

dario73

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2011, 10:18:21 AM »
I think 11 is too young. 

JUDGE JEANINE PIRRO: Should an 11-Year-Old Be Tried For Murder as an Adult?
By Judge Jeanine Pirro
Published January 28, 2011
FoxNews.com



The face of evil:

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2011, 10:44:54 AM »
wouldnt it be LIBS who want to let him go with a strong talking to... and conservatives who wanna lock him up for 50 years?















Lock him up.

225for70

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2011, 10:59:31 AM »
Problem is he may go to jail.

I have no problem whatsoever with locking this kid up for whatever time it takes to get him straight.

But the prisons of today, with minimal rehabilition functions?

That's a waste.

FWIW, I have the same view on all sentencings.

I don't have any problem with putting people in prison for a long time, if it means that they will be straight when they come out.

My only priority is law-abiding citizens.

As short sentence as possible is in the interest of the taxpayers, and that can only be done if the time spent is effective.

From my point of view, every year this kid is in prison, the society loses input to the GNP.

-Hedge

don't forget the other side of the equation, the society pays of him to be in jail. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2011, 10:59:56 AM »
The face of evil:


Life sentence for this kid?

dario73

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2011, 11:05:20 AM »

Jordan Brown and Kenzie Houk


Pennsylvania Considers Life in Prison for 11-Year-Old Accused of Murder
Thursday, January 27, 2011 

Juvenile Jordan Brown is set to be tried as an adult by a Pennsylvania court for allegedly murdering his father’s 8½-month pregnant fiancée when he was 11 years old.
 
The criminal case has garnered attention from child advocates in the U.S. and overseas who object to treating Brown as an adult. If convicted, the now 13-year-old would receive life in prison without possibility of parole, making him the youngest child in American history to receive such a sentence.
 
Brown is accused of shooting Kenzie Houk in the back of the head while she was asleep with a child-sized shotgun his father had given him. Brown had five other guns in his bedroom. Because Houk and her unborn baby both died, Brown is facing two counts of premeditated murder. According to one doctor who examined Brown, he was resentful because he would be moved out of his room to make way for the new baby.
 
The judge overseeing the case, Dominick Motto, decided that Brown should be tried as an adult because, despite convincing physical evidence, he has refused to admit guilt and has shown no remorse.



How did this 11 year old have 6 guns in his bedroom?


Dos Equis

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2011, 11:09:02 AM »

Jordan Brown and Kenzie Houk


Pennsylvania Considers Life in Prison for 11-Year-Old Accused of Murder
Thursday, January 27, 2011 

Juvenile Jordan Brown is set to be tried as an adult by a Pennsylvania court for allegedly murdering his father’s 8½-month pregnant fiancée when he was 11 years old.
 
The criminal case has garnered attention from child advocates in the U.S. and overseas who object to treating Brown as an adult. If convicted, the now 13-year-old would receive life in prison without possibility of parole, making him the youngest child in American history to receive such a sentence.
 
Brown is accused of shooting Kenzie Houk in the back of the head while she was asleep with a child-sized shotgun his father had given him. Brown had five other guns in his bedroom. Because Houk and her unborn baby both died, Brown is facing two counts of premeditated murder. According to one doctor who examined Brown, he was resentful because he would be moved out of his room to make way for the new baby.
 
The judge overseeing the case, Dominick Motto, decided that Brown should be tried as an adult because, despite convincing physical evidence, he has refused to admit guilt and has shown no remorse.



How did this 11 year old have 6 guns in his bedroom?



Must have gotten them from his father. 

dario73

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2011, 11:11:50 AM »
Must have gotten them from his father. 

Seems like his father should join him in prison.

dario73

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2011, 11:12:40 AM »
A family divided.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/25/us-boy-accused-murder-appeals


Houk's death has divided the two families involved in their response to Brown's judicial treatment. The boy's father, Chris Brown, protests his son's innocence and says he has no idea what could await him.

"Try to explain to a 12-year-old what the rest of your life means. It's incomprehensible for him," he told ABC News last year.

The victim's mother, Deborah Houk, has pushed for the toughest sentence for the boy. "I can't stand this 'Oh, he's 11,' 'Oh, his clothes don't fit him,'" she told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review soon after her daughter's death. "He knew what he was doing. He killed my baby."

George Whorewell

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2011, 11:28:34 AM »
I feel that all child killers should be forced to live with a wealthy liberal "sponsor" in exchange for a tax rebate. The "sponsor" will be held criminally liable for any and all acts of the child while in their custody.

Dos Equis

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2011, 11:43:37 AM »
Seems like his father should join him in prison.

Yep.

Hereford

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2011, 04:30:42 PM »
Where would you draw the line?  What age?

8? 5?

Does it matter?

If some pre-teen offed one of your kids, would you be less upset because of the perps age?

Dead is Dead. If the age of the killer matters, than the age of the victim does too.

Dos Equis

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2011, 07:08:29 PM »
8? 5?

Does it matter?

If some pre-teen offed one of your kids, would you be less upset because of the perps age?

Dead is Dead. If the age of the killer matters, than the age of the victim does too.

Yes it matters.  We're talking about the severity of the punishment, not whether there should be any punishment at all.  In other words, the issue is at what age do we treat kids like adults when they commit serious crimes?  You're fine with ages 5 and 8.  I'm not.  Not sure exactly where I would draw the line. 

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Re: Prosecutors seek waiver to charge boy, 15, with murder
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2011, 04:03:52 PM »
 :-\


Florida Boy, 12, Charged as an Adult in Brother's Murder
By Phil Keating
Published October 19, 2011
FoxNews.com

In the Florida courtroom, the first-degree murder defendant is dwarfed by the cops who surround him. In the interrogation room, he can barely sit still or stay awake.

This defendant is 12 years old and, if convicted, could spend the rest of his life in prison.

His name is Cristian Fernandez, and he is the youngest person to be charged with murder as an adult in Jacksonville's history.

“Yes, I have compassion for Cristian Fernandez, but it's not my job to forgive,” State Attorney Angela Corey said. “It's my job to follow the law."

Police say the crime was premeditated, that Fernandez intentionally killed his 2-year-old brother, David, by violently shoving him into a bookshelf twice, causing a skull fracture and massive internal bleeding.

The medical examiner ruled David’s death a homicide, caused by blunt-force trauma. Their mother, Biannela Susana, was not home at the time of the incident. Police say as David lay on his bed unconscious, his older brother called their mother, who then came home.

What happened next is very much at issue.

Susana, 25, is charged with aggravated manslaughter of a child and felony child abuse. She remains in jail on a $1 million bond and, if convicted, faces up to 30 years in prison.

Police say they have a confession from Cristian, but the case still has sparked international outrage. More than 170,000 people have signed an online petition urging the prosecutor to treat the 12-year-old as a juvenile, not as an adult. The prosecutor disagrees and says she is following Florida law.

The Sunshine State sends more juveniles into the adult prison population than any other state. In 2009, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 393 Florida juveniles entered adult prison. Florida was followed by Connecticut with 332 such cases, North Carolina with 215, New York with 190, Arizona with 157 and Texas with 156.

“He’s just a kid,” said Alicia Torres, whose son was a classmate of Cristian's. She signed the petition, too. "He's got a baby face. ... He doesn't know -- he doesn't know what's going on."

Complicating the Fernandez case is the role of Susana. Police say during the several-hour window between when she came home and drove David to the hospital, her laptop shows that she searched “when some (sic) gets knocked out” at 10:54 a.m. “When your unconscious for hours” at 2:15 p.m. At 2:38 p.m., “concussions on children.”

Then there were online searches for a Wachovia Bank account. At 2:39 p.m., the search was for “mayoclinic.com.” After that, according to the police report, someone downloaded music, searched popular screen savers, went to YouTube and then finally “St. Luke’s Hospital, Jacksonville, Florida” at 3:07 p.m.

A doctor at St. Luke’s told a police officer that had the toddler been treated sooner, he may have survived.

Cristian Fernandez’s public defenders argue all of the blame belongs with the mother, and Fernandez does not deserve to be prosecuted in the adult system.

"I think many would argue that she's the most culpable when it comes to the death of this child," Matt Shirk said.

In light of a plea deal that may spare this 140-pound murder defendant from the adult system, Fernandez will next be in court Oct. 31. His trial date has not yet been set.

The mother is scheduled to stand trial starting Feb. 27.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/19/boy-12-charged-with-murder-as-adult-in-florida/