Author Topic: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!  (Read 7538 times)

loco

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2009, 07:02:06 PM »
I didn't slink off jackass.  I went to sleep.  So sorry I couldn't make it a 36 hour posting marathon for your stupid retarded ass ::)

What was posted.  all I see is a great big no hotlinking pic loco.  I hope it was the poverty rates during your psycho rightwing years.

I posted the chart and a link.  If you can't see the chart, you could have clicked the link.  So can you answer my questions or not?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2009, 07:37:30 PM »
I posted the chart and a link.  If you can't see the chart, you could have clicked the link.  So can you answer my questions or not?
yea I clicked the link, what chart are you wanting me to look at?  what's your major point?  Looked like you were trying to make a point about poverty which a challenged you on.  Are you addressing that or what?  Don't you know how to copy and post a pic here?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2009, 07:41:29 PM »
 :-*

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2009, 07:54:45 PM »
Venezuela has seen a remarkable reduction in poverty since the first quarter of 2003. In the ensuing four years, from 2003 to 2007, the poverty rate was cut in half, from 54 percent of households to 27.5 percent. (See Table 1). This is measured from the first half of 2003 to the first half of 2007. As can be seen in the table, the poverty rate rose very slightly by one percentage point in the second half of 2007, most likely due to rising food prices. Extreme poverty fell even more, by 70 percent – from 25.1 percent of households to 7.6 percent.

cont... http://www.drclas.harvard.edu/revista/articles/view/1100

"Most of the controversy over social and economic progress under the Chavez administration is simply a result of misinformation, political prejudice, an overwhelming reliance on opposition sources, and an overall political and media climate of hostility toward a government that finds itself in conflict with Washington."--HOW ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND WHY I LAUGHED AT THE IDEA OF LISTENING TO CNN.  I'VE READ TONS OF CRAP FROM CNN NOT REMOTELY BASED IN REALITY ON THE ISSUE.

grab an umbrella

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2009, 01:18:06 AM »
Venezuela has seen a remarkable reduction in poverty since the first quarter of 2003. In the ensuing four years, from 2003 to 2007, the poverty rate was cut in half, from 54 percent of households to 27.5 percent. (See Table 1). This is measured from the first half of 2003 to the first half of 2007. As can be seen in the table, the poverty rate rose very slightly by one percentage point in the second half of 2007, most likely due to rising food prices. Extreme poverty fell even more, by 70 percent – from 25.1 percent of households to 7.6 percent.

cont... http://www.drclas.harvard.edu/revista/articles/view/1100

"Most of the controversy over social and economic progress under the Chavez administration is simply a result of misinformation, political prejudice, an overwhelming reliance on opposition sources, and an overall political and media climate of hostility toward a government that finds itself in conflict with Washington."--HOW ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND WHY I LAUGHED AT THE IDEA OF LISTENING TO CNN.  I'VE READ TONS OF CRAP FROM CNN NOT REMOTELY BASED IN REALITY ON THE ISSUE.

Hugo, with all the manipulation that goes on down there, you don't think it's possible they are manipulating poverty numbers?

loco

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2009, 06:10:28 AM »
:-*

Hugo,
Where did you get this table?  Will you please provide a link?

Provided the numbers in this table are accurate, they show more of a roller coaster, probably due to rising and falling prices of oil, than a constant reduction in poverty. 

And if poverty has significantly decreased, why has crime increased so much?  Can you explain that Hugo?

These poverty figures have not fallen in proportion to the country's vast petroleum revenues in the last few Chavez years.

loco

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2009, 06:14:59 AM »
Venezuela has seen a remarkable reduction in poverty since the first quarter of 2003. In the ensuing four years, from 2003 to 2007, the poverty rate was cut in half, from 54 percent of households to 27.5 percent. (See Table 1). This is measured from the first half of 2003 to the first half of 2007. As can be seen in the table, the poverty rate rose very slightly by one percentage point in the second half of 2007, most likely due to rising food prices. Extreme poverty fell even more, by 70 percent – from 25.1 percent of households to 7.6 percent.

cont... http://www.drclas.harvard.edu/revista/articles/view/1100

"Most of the controversy over social and economic progress under the Chavez administration is simply a result of misinformation, political prejudice, an overwhelming reliance on opposition sources, and an overall political and media climate of hostility toward a government that finds itself in conflict with Washington."--HOW ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND WHY I LAUGHED AT THE IDEA OF LISTENING TO CNN.  I'VE READ TONS OF CRAP FROM CNN NOT REMOTELY BASED IN REALITY ON THE ISSUE.

Your post mentions 2007, but 2007 is not in your table.

From your link:
"It may turn out that some of the official data that we are using today will be revised or replaced by better data, as happens in many countries"

Hugo,
The Venezuelan government's reported poverty figures have not fallen in proportion to the country's vast petroleum revenues in the last few years.

loco

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2009, 06:20:23 AM »
yea I clicked the link, what chart are you wanting me to look at?  what's your major point?  Looked like you were trying to make a point about poverty which a challenged you on.  Are you addressing that or what?  Don't you know how to copy and post a pic here?

I made my point about poverty very clear, but you are playing dumb.  I posted the chart, and I posted a link to the page that has the chart at the top.

In the entire history of Venezuela, no elected president has ever had as much power, authority and money as Chavez has.  What's his excuse?  What is stopping him from keeping his promises to the poor?  Why are the poor still poor? 

Even your alleged decrease in poverty, even if accurate, does not fall in proportion to the country's vast petroleum revenues it has enjoyed under Chavez.  Can you explain that, Hugo?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2009, 06:27:07 AM »
did you read the harvard link.  It does a good job at addressing your points. 

loco

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2009, 06:37:28 AM »
did you read the harvard link.  It does a good job at addressing your points. 

Yes, I read it.  No, it does not address my points.

Way to avoid my posts and questions!   ::)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2009, 07:11:50 AM »
epic reading skills....


from the article, which does address what you're talking about.

Rodriguez asserts that this halving of the household poverty rate in four years is not very good:

“The real question is thus not whether poverty has fallen but whether the Chávez government has been particularly effective at converting this period of economic growth into poverty reduction. One way to evaluate this is by calculating the reduction in poverty for every percentage point increase in per capita income -- in economists' lingo, the income elasticity of poverty reduction. This calculation shows an average reduction of one percentage point in poverty for every percentage point in per capita GDP growth during this recovery, a ratio that compares unfavorably with those of many other developing countries, for which studies tend to put the figure at around two percentage points.”

This implies that other countries have had twice as much poverty reduction per unit of economic growth as Venezuela. This is not true, and Rodriguez (2008b) subsequently acknowledged this, listing Venezuela's income elasticity of poverty reduction at 1.67, which is closer to two than one. But an elasticity of two is not the relevant comparison.  Table 2 shows country and regional data from the World Bank for thirty-four growth spells of more than forty percent in per capita GDP, over the last two decades.  As can be seen from the table, there are only three countries with a better income elasticity of poverty reduction than Venezuela.

And even this comparison understates Venezuela’s success. The World Bank data is for a $2 per day (Purchasing Power Parity dollars) poverty line, whereas Venezuela's poverty line is about 50 percent higher than this. The income elasticity of poverty reduction is much less elastic – that is, there is much less poverty reduction for a given amount of growth -- for higher poverty lines. (Also, the three countries that are above Venezuela – Poland, Latvia, and Chile – have very low levels of poverty by the end of the period, measured at $2 per day; countries with very low levels of absolute poverty tend to have much higher income elasticities of poverty reduction.) And as noted above, we are here only looking at cash income, ignoring gains for the poor in health care and education.

GigantorX

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2009, 07:22:04 AM »
The bigger point, which hasn't been raised, is what to do when oil revenue keep declining because the govt. is using the profits for social programs and not reinvesting into the oil sector?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2009, 07:27:27 AM »
The bigger point, which hasn't been raised, is what to do when oil revenue keep declining because the govt. is using the profits for social programs and not reinvesting into the oil sector?
that's not a bigger point.

loco

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2009, 07:33:32 AM »
epic reading skills....


from the article, which does address what you're talking about.

Rodriguez asserts that this halving of the household poverty rate in four years is not very good:

“The real question is thus not whether poverty has fallen but whether the Chávez government has been particularly effective at converting this period of economic growth into poverty reduction. One way to evaluate this is by calculating the reduction in poverty for every percentage point increase in per capita income -- in economists' lingo, the income elasticity of poverty reduction. This calculation shows an average reduction of one percentage point in poverty for every percentage point in per capita GDP growth during this recovery, a ratio that compares unfavorably with those of many other developing countries, for which studies tend to put the figure at around two percentage points.”

This implies that other countries have had twice as much poverty reduction per unit of economic growth as Venezuela. This is not true, and Rodriguez (2008b) subsequently acknowledged this, listing Venezuela's income elasticity of poverty reduction at 1.67, which is closer to two than one. But an elasticity of two is not the relevant comparison.  Table 2 shows country and regional data from the World Bank for thirty-four growth spells of more than forty percent in per capita GDP, over the last two decades.  As can be seen from the table, there are only three countries with a better income elasticity of poverty reduction than Venezuela.

And even this comparison understates Venezuela’s success. The World Bank data is for a $2 per day (Purchasing Power Parity dollars) poverty line, whereas Venezuela's poverty line is about 50 percent higher than this. The income elasticity of poverty reduction is much less elastic – that is, there is much less poverty reduction for a given amount of growth -- for higher poverty lines. (Also, the three countries that are above Venezuela – Poland, Latvia, and Chile – have very low levels of poverty by the end of the period, measured at $2 per day; countries with very low levels of absolute poverty tend to have much higher income elasticities of poverty reduction.) And as noted above, we are here only looking at cash income, ignoring gains for the poor in health care and education.


There is no "Table 2" to look at.

I read that.  How does that address my posts and questions to you?  Chavez has given money and oil away to other countries, even free energy to some of the poor in the US.  No wonder the poor in Venezuela are still poor.  And yes, the poverty numbers you and your article bring up are manipulated and inaccurate.  Here's how Chavez comes up with those numbers:

Critics slam Venezuelan oil windfall spending
`Missions' won't have a lasting effect, they say

By Indira A.R. Lakshmanan, Globe Staff  |  August 13, 2006

CARACAS -- With oil prices at record levels, President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela has become the world's richest petro-socialist , and has vowed to spend that bounty on the poor.

With the national oil company projecting worldwide revenues of $85 billion this year, Chávez has plenty to spend; Venezuela has doubled the oil money in government coffers since 2004. But controversy has erupted over how wisely that money is being spent.

The government says the oil bonanza is transforming the lives of the poor. But critics, including senior economic officials who have broken ranks with Chávez, say the money is being frittered on short-term programs that boost Chavez's popularity, rather than being invested in long-term growth. Even planners loyal to Chávez worry that without strict oversight, a good portion of the windfall could be lost to corruption, and that not enough is being saved for the rainy day when oil prices fall.

Two years after oil prices began their dramatic climb and the government started plowing newfound billions into antipoverty programs, Celina Meza and her neighbors still hawk cheap snacks for small change and live in shanties clinging to a hillside in La Vega, one of the city's poorest barrios. But Meza, 68, said without hesitation that she is better off thanks to Chavez's policies and the oil boom that pays for them.

She receives a stipend of about $100 a month for attending Mission Robinson, an adult literacy program started under Chávez that provides financial incentives to the neediest students. Her husband's social security payment has risen with wage and pension hikes mandated by Chávez and paid for with abundant state funds. And the government has used the oil windfall to open subsidized markets in poor neighborhoods that sell staple foods up to 40 percent cheaper than elsewhere.

Meza's story is typical of many of Venezuela's poorest citizens: Despite the oil boom, she has been unable to find a job and cannot pay for health, education, or decent housing. Yet she is living better due to subsidies that have boosted her household income, decreased her food costs, and given her family access to free schooling and basic medical care.

``There are many needy people still. But at least there's hope," said Sergio Contreras, 34, a volunteer who teaches Meza and 10 other adults to read . They learn in a shabby plywood shack in the sprawling slum not far from downtown Caracas.

Other Chávez-inspired ``missions" offer vocational training, high school equivalent diplomas, distance-learning university degrees via Internet or other off-site methods , aid to needy mothers, soup kitchens, and free eye operations.

A review of government accounts shows the immense scale of the oil money in play for such initiatives.

The state-owned oil company, PDVSA, will pay the government an estimated $30 billion in taxes and royalties this year, nearly $19 billion of which will go to social spending, said Rodrigo Cabezas, president of the National Assembly's finance commission. PDVSA has also set aside $4.5 billion this year for its antipoverty projects.

On top of that, PDVSA is depositing about $100 million a week into a discretionary presidential spending fund that is outside the budget. Last year, Chávez created the so-called Fund for National Development, which -- in addition to the $5.5 billion it will accumulate from PDVSA's weekly deposits -- has drawn $10.2 billion from the Central Bank's reserves, and will draw billions more at year's end. Seventy percent of that money has been earmarked for infrastructure projects, and 25 percent for social spending, Cabezas said.

All told, higher gas prices and steeper royalties have yielded a whopping $50 billion in oil money available for public spending this year.

Critics say there is no oversight to control how the windfall is spent, or evaluate the efficiency of the beneficiary programs. The Ministry of Finance recently announced that Russian machine guns would be purchased out of the Fund for National Development.

``The government didn't establish rules for the use or necessary supervision, control, and auditing of this fund," said Domingo Maza Zavala, a state-appointed central bank director.

As for ``missions," which are the beneficiary of most of Chávez's social spending, ``I have a personal conviction that they are a good thing . . . but there's no method of objective evaluation of what the missions have achieved," he added.

Another troubling aspect of the presidential fund is that its main funding mechanism -- taking ``excess" foreign reserves from the Central Bank -- could lead to inflation, devaluation, or currency instability.

The Bank's foreign reserves are monies that effectively have been spent -- when PDVSA converted its US dollar oil export earnings into local currency, complained economist Orlando Ochoa, a former adviser to the finance commission.

An earlier Chávez creation, the Fund for Economic and Social Development of the Country, amassed $4 billion in oil money in 2004 and 2005, but government and bank officials interviewed were unable to say how much of that has been spent or on what programs.

With so much oil money sloshing around, observers also wonder how efficiently public contracts are being allocated. Former Army Captain Eliécer Otaiza, a Chávez loyalist appointed to investigate corruption, recently told a government commission that most contracts were awarded without a transparent bid process.

José Rojas, Chávez's former minister of finance and former vice president of PDVSA, said he was ``shocked and disappointed" about the ``irresponsible" way oil profits are being handled.

The government should be redistributing wealth through tax policy, while using oil money to ``create real growth via better productivity and higher employment. . . . If you don't do that, you're just spending money," he argued.

Rojas complained that despite feel-good programs, per capita income has declined by 4 percent since Chávez took office, according to Central Bank figures. ``I said poverty was rising and I got fired for telling [Chávez] the truth," he said.

Temir Porras, head of Mission Sucre, a program to expand higher education through distance learning, new campuses, and open admission, countered that with 7 to 9 percent projections for GDP growth this year, there's no reason to fear money is being squandered. Investments in education, health, and infrastructure will have a lasting effect on standard of living, he said.

Skeptics say Chávez's antipoverty programs are not sustainable solutions to lift people into the middle class, but rather paternalistic hand-holding that will vanish when the oil money is gone.

Both the government and opposition say the other side is manipulating statistics, making it hard to evaluate how much Chávez's oil-funded programs have helped the poor.

Elias Eljuri, president of the National Statistics Institute, said unemployment has dropped from 16.6 percent when Chávez took office in 1999 to 10.2 percent today. But critics assail the state for defining informal workers, such as street vendors, as employed, and excluding adults who are studying in missions from unemployment numbers.

Last year, Eljuri released figures showing poverty had risen more than 10 points under Chávez, to 53 percent in 2004. But after a stinging critique by the president, who called for a measure of how missions were improving standard of living, the institute created a ``social well-being" index. By year's end, it said poverty -- defined as people who can't afford basic food and services -- had fallen to 40 percent.

Edmond Saade, president of Datos Information Resources, a private Venezuelan research firm, said his surveys show incomes of the poorest Venezuelans have risen because of subsidies and grants, at the same time that the percentage of people in the worst living conditions has grown.

``The poor of Venezuela are living much better lately and have increased their purchasing power . . . [but] without being able to improve their housing, education level, and social mobility," he said. ``Rather than help [the poor] become stakeholders in the economic system, what [the government has] done is distribute as much oil wealth as possible in missions and social programs."

Yet not even Chávez supporters say all the social programs are working as they should. There are complaints that public housing hasn't materialized, and that Cuban doctors assigned to poor barrios aren't doing their jobs.

Maribel Cedillo, 36, a supervisor of Mission Robinson in La Vega, summed up the mood of many here: ``There are so many problems in the missions in all the barrios," she sighed. ``But we keep quiet because we want Chávez to stay in power. As long as he's there, we believe things can get better."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/08/13/critics_slam_venezuelan_oil_windfall_spending/

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2009, 08:10:20 AM »
I'm sure you can dig up more than that seeing the obvious corporate owned media outlets strong bias against Hugo.  I can go find hundreds of similar propaganda articles.  Loco, you're ignoring me more than I you.  That article clearly addresses your point, what is your answer to that, just to say no it doesn't lolololol....

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2009, 08:25:56 AM »
another point, you bitch that the poverty hasn't come down relative to Venezuela's income.  It's not good enough for you that anyway you look at the data, it has come down significantly.  Only way it doesn't look good is because the opposition loves to take figures from the period effected by the oil strike.  Even the world bank's data places reductions in poverty under Chavez only second to Argentina in South America.  Depends on the data sources and years looked at, but however you dice it, it's a significant decrease.  Now, the way I see it, it's a bloody fucking miracle he pulled that off considering the power of the opposition fighting to prevent any success by Chavez.  A better question would really be to ask, what would be the state of poverty today without such a strong opposition seeking to undermine any success at every turn?  Yea, I guess we won't know the answer to that question.  That's something that's on your shoulders, not mine.  something to think about for anyone with any real morality which is hard if not impossible to find among the opposition.  One thing is for sure, when the opposition was in power, they sure didn't give a rats ass about those people and you know it.  They don't have a lot of high ground to bitch from then do they!!!  All that money would have been pure profit and the poor would still be megaSOL...

a_joker10

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2009, 09:15:48 AM »
Hardly a bastion of American Globalization Amnesty is concerned about the media.


http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/venezuela-globovisi%C3%B3n-attack-must-be-urgently-investigated-and-journalis

Venezuela: Globovisión attack must be urgently investigated and journalists protected

4 August 2009

Amnesty International today expressed grave concern at attacks against staff at Globovisión television station on Monday and called on the Venezuelan authorities to urgently initiate a full and impartial investigation to ensure those responsible are brought to justice.

According to reports, a group of armed individuals entered Globovisión’s main office on Monday afternoon, threw tear gas bombs and attacked staff and security guards. The attackers identified themselves as government supporters.

“Attacks against freedom of expression are a serious long standing concern in Venezuela,” said Susan Lee, Americas Director at Amnesty International. “President Chavez must guarantee that the right of the media to exercise its legitimate activity is respected, even when that includes criticism of the government.”

In a separate development, Venezuela’s Attorney General has presented a draft law that will make it a criminal offense to “disseminate through the media ‘false’ news that ‘harms the interest of the state’ and to ‘mislead or distort news’ … if this affects social peace, national security, public order, mental health or public morale." Anyone convicted under this law could face a prison sentence of up to four years.

Amnesty International is seriously concerned that the law, if enacted, will impose unacceptable restrictions on freedom of expression in Venezuela.

Z

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2009, 09:44:04 AM »
you're so way off on amnesty.  i don't trust them on this either.

Assessment by a former AI-USA board member
Prof. Francis A. Boyle (Professor of International Law, Univ. of Illinois, Champaign) from an interview with Dennis Bernstein:

"Amnesty International is primarily motivated not by human rights but by publicity. Second comes money. Third comes getting more members. Fourth, internal turf battles. And then finally, human rights, genuine human rights concerns. To be sure, if you are dealing with a human rights situation in a country that is at odds with the United States or Britain, it gets an awful lot of attention, resources, man and womanpower, publicity, you name it, they can throw whatever they want at that. But if it's dealing with violations of human rights by the United States, Britain, Israel, then it's like pulling teeth to get them to really do something on the situation. They might, very reluctantly and after an enormous amount of internal fightings and battles and pressures, you name it. But you know, it's not like the official enemies list."

Group Manipulation
Several AI chapters connected with universities in the U.S. have been taken over by groups with their own agenda. Their interest is to block criticism of certain countries, and to create a false impression that AI favors their position. There have been instances where manipulators sent "news releases" using AI letterhead (of the local group) to push their agenda. On Oct. 2002, AI-London stated that it is not their business to censor these groups (statement by Donatella Rovera when she was asked about this).

hmmm interesting connections!
Business Ethics?
In 1991, AI set up a Amnesty Business Group. It was meant to monitor human rights observance by corporations. However, the curious thing is that it chose Sir Geoffrey Chandler to head this unit. NB: Chandler was a Shell company director, and the head of the Sustainability Council. The second curious aspect of this AI unit is the issuance of a report about a controversial oil pipeline. It is quoted as follows on its website: "Launch of Human Rights on the Line Report into the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline project and the Host Government Agreement between BP and the Turkish Government." Note that this pipeline was beset by controversy because BP overlooked the rights and interests of all the people in the path of the pipeline.

more: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Amnesty_International

a_joker10

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2009, 10:00:14 AM »
The thing is I don't don't trust the Chavez regime.

So posting numbers about reduction of poverty that have only been backed by the Chavez government mean nothing to me.

Chavez won't let independent groups review these numbers.
Z

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2009, 10:24:47 AM »
The thing is I don't don't trust the Chavez regime.

So posting numbers about reduction of poverty that have only been backed by the Chavez government mean nothing to me.

Chavez won't let independent groups review these numbers.
not all the poverty numbers that have been posted here are from the government. 




United Nations: Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean.
Latin American Official Confirms Social Advances in Venezuela


The Executive Secretary of the Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean of the United Nations (ECLAC), Ana Bárcena, confirmed the positive social statistics referred to by President Hugo Chávez during an interview with journalist Patricia Janiot last week on CNN.

Bárcena, in an interview with Luis Carlos Vélez on CNN en Espańol, emphasized that Venezuela made “very important” progress between 2002 and 2007 in areas like reducing unemployment and the fight against poverty.

“The data I can corroborate are that the unemployment rate fell from 11 percent to 7.4 percent; the extreme poverty rate effectively went from 25 percent to 8.5 percent as of 2007.... Poverty from 51 to 28 percent,” said Bárcena after being asked about the figures used by President Chávez.

In that interview, the President affirmed that the ECLAC recognized Venezuela as having the lowest inequality in Latin America. He also noted that the United Nations highlighted Venezuela as among the countries with the highest level of human development in the region, and presented data that showed a reduction in poverty.

For Bárcena, “Venezuela has implemented social programs that we must evaluate,” and has become one of the countries with the highest social spending, nearly 14 percent of its budget.

The ECLAC Executive Secretary also emphasized that Venezuela has “very positive social indicators.” Regarding the effects of the world economic crisis and the fall of oil prices, she said that “Venezuela could face it.”

Regarding inflation, Bárcena recognized its existence but said it is a problem “that is undergoing corrections throughout the world.”

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/30/1534

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2009, 10:36:52 AM »
Chavez won't let independent groups review these numbers.

Myth: The ICG argues that “social spending funded by the oil windfall appears to have yielded only modest and, in the long term, unsustainable gains for the poorest part of the population.” 

Fact:   The report fails to cite or acknowledge independent studies that have shown a clear decline in poverty in Venezuela during the Chavez Administration.  Instead, it discredits official government figures and uses perception polls to back up its unfounded claims.  The United Nation’s Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean (ECLAC)  has documented otherwise, as well as the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington DC.  Since 2003, when the first social mission programs were implemented in Venezuela, independent sources have found that the household poverty rate has decreased by 31 percent.[vii] 

http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/downloads/ICG2008.htm

In ECLAC’s 2006 Social Panorama report on Latin America, it found that from 2002 to 2005 extreme poverty had dropped by 10 percent from 48.6 percent to 37.1 percent and between 2002 and 2006 Venezuela’s overall poverty rate had decreased by 18.4 percentage points

loco

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2009, 10:43:33 AM »
I do not oppose Chavez, but I do oppose corruption and the violation of human rights and basic freedoms.  I wish Chavez had done half of what he promised to do.

Hugo, you don't trust me or my sources, or CNN or America, and you blame the opposition for Chavez's failures.   ::)

What a cop out.

Well, I don't trust Hugo Chavez, or you and your sources.  Those numbers are manipulated.  There is no significant reduction in poverty in Venezuela.  Explain the increase in crime, if poverty has so significantly decreased?

Where past Venezuelan leaders have been corrupt, Chavez has been more corrupt.  Where past Venezuelan leaders have mishandled Venezuela's wealth, Chavez has mishandled it many times more.  

No Venezuelan leader has had as much time, power, control and money as Chavez has, yet the poor are still poor and will remain poor.  This is your hero, and you talk about morality?   ::)

Venezuela is the richest Latin American country with the poorest people.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2009, 10:45:23 AM »
I do not oppose Chavez, but I do oppose corruption and the violation of human rights and basic freedoms.  I wish Chavez had done half of what he promised to do.

Hugo, you don't trust me or my sources, or CNN or America, and you blame the opposition for Chavez's failures.   ::)

What a cop out.

Well, I don't trust Hugo Chavez, or you and your sources.  Those numbers are manipulated.  There is no significant reduction in poverty in Venezuela.  Explain the increase in crime, if poverty has so significantly decreased?

Where past Venezuelan leaders have been corrupt, Chavez has been more corrupt.  Where past Venezuelan leaders have mishandled Venezuela's wealth, Chavez has mishandled it many times more.  

No Venezuelan leader has had as much time, power, control and money as Chavez has, yet the poor are still poor and will remain poor.  This is your hero, and you talk about morality?   ::)

Venezuela is the richest Latin American country with the poorest people.
BWHAHAhahahahahahha.... Oh Brother ::)

loco

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2009, 10:50:50 AM »
BWHAHAhahahahahahha.... Oh Brother ::)

What an intelligent and insightful response! 

If poverty has so significantly decreased, why the increase in crime?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Hugo's hero Hugo becoming quite the dictator!
« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2009, 11:03:53 AM »
This is funny shit, really.  I specifically tried to keep away from sources like venezuelanalysis.com, vensolidarity.net or handsoffvenezuela.com because I knew they would be pretty instantly put down by default.  So I tried to keep primarily to sources I thought would be considered.  UN, World Bank, Harvard and a few decent commentary sources.  What is documented pretty well is the extreme bias by corporate owned media sources which is your primary sources for quoting information!  LOL...  gee, why would the corporations callaborate with the opposition... duh...

What really just happend was that you were faced with information that was hard to deny so you just said fuck it, I don't trust your sources either.  At least there is valid demonstrated and documented reason for not trusting the corporate run media.  What is your reason for ignoring say, the United Nations ECLAC?

lol...