Denver Tried to Trade Jay Cutler

[Option D]

The league can still punish him.  Remember Pac Man was suspended for being a hoodlum, not because he was actually convicted each time he was arrested. 

Which Mike you talking about? 

Shanahan..ex- coach for Denver

[Dos Equis]

Shanahan..ex- coach for Denver

Ah so.  Heck no they shouldn't have fired him.  Didn't they fire him because he refused to fire one or more of his staff? 

You're right about the RB situation.  They basically signed Tatum Bell off the street. 

[body88]

Belichick had lousy QBs and pretty average talent.  That's the reason he didn't win.  He didn't become a "genius" until he had the best playoff QB since Montana.  He's a great coach, but he's still only as good as his players.  Give him Kerry Collins instead of Brady and I bet he has no Super Bowl wins.

I can't stand Moss, but he was one of the best WRs in football before he went to NE.  He stunk, and quit, in Oakland, but when he feels like playing, he's a monster.  You really cannot compare Moss and Welker to Bowe and whoever else lines up in KC.  Night and day. 

Bowe might go to the Pro Bowl next year, but the point was there is less talent in KC than NE.  We'll find out how good Cassel really is when he doesn't have the fastest WR and arguably the best slot WR in football lining up on Sundays.     

Belichick made Brady just as much as Brady made Belichick.  Don't forget that Belichick was able to keep things calm between Bledsoe and Brady when he benched Bledsoe (a very unpopular decision at the time).  You can speculate all you want about Kerry Collins, but since it will never happen it's really a useless point - imo.  Collins did great with the Titans this year, maybe he gets over the hump with Belichick.  Look what Belichick did with Cassel this year. Herm Edwards is not in the same stratosphere as Belichick.  As I said, Belichick had two rings and two defensive gameplans in the HOF before he stepped foot in NE. Belichick = 5 rings, 2 defensive gameplans in the NFL HOF, 16-0, 11-5 with rookie QB last year.  Herm = losing record.  He's like that guy you love in the office, but he sucks at his job....they keep him around because "he is a great guy who is loved by everyone"....but he still stinks.

I can't stand Moss, but he was one of the best WRs in football before he went to NE.  He stunk, and quit, in Oakland, but when he feels like playing, he's a monster.  You really cannot compare Moss and Welker to Bowe and whoever else lines up in KC.  Night and day. 

Sure you can.  Dwayne Bowe had over 1,000 yards during his second year in the NFL with a garbage QB.....of course that total will climb when Cassel comes to town.  It takes three years to develope as a wr in the NFL....Bowe is elite, two 1000 yards seasons since he came in to the NFL?  What more do you want!?

Also, Dwayne Bowe had much better numbers than Welker over his first two season in the NFL.  It was when Welker started working with Brady and Cassel that his true talent shined.  Of course you can compare Bowe and Welker.  I would bet you never watched Welker before 2007.  I saw him a few times a year when he played NE and I saw the potential there.  Common sense says that if Welker increased his numbers 40% playing with Cassel and Brady...that Bowe will increase his numbers also.  In regards to Moss, no one does well in Oakland....it is what it is.

Bowe might go to the Pro Bowl next year, but the point was there is less talent in KC than NE.  We'll find out how good Cassel really is when he doesn't have the fastest WR and arguably the best slot WR in football lining up on Sundays.

Right....but KC now has the guy who put some of the talent on that NE team and they have some good players also.  Do you know a lot of the guys on KC?  Herm didn't know how to use them correctly.  We already know how good Cassel can be when he has the right tools.  Again, Moss and Welker were not what they are now until they started working with Brady and then Cassel.  Moss is fast....but the fastest, no. KC has 58 mill in cap space, and they have a lot og draft picks.  Pioli will turn it around.  Look for them to be contenders within two years.

[Dos Equis]

Belichick made Brady just as much as Brady made Belichick.  Don't forget that Belichick was able to keep things calm between Bledsoe and Brady when he benched Bledsoe (a very unpopular decision at the time).  You can speculate all you want about Kerry Collins, but since it will never happen it's really a useless point - imo.  Collins did great with the Titans this year, maybe he gets over the hump with Belichick.  Look what Belichick did with Cassel this year. Herm Edwards is not in the same stratosphere as Belichick.  As I said, Belichick had two rings and two defensive gameplans in the HOF before he stepped foot in NE. Belichick = 5 rings, 2 defensive gameplans in the NFL HOF, 16-0, 11-5 with rookie QB last year.  Herm = losing record.  He's like that guy you love in the office, but he sucks at his job....they keep him around because "he is a great guy who is loved by everyone"....but he still stinks.
 
Sure you can.  Dwayne Bowe had over 1,000 yards during his second year in the NFL with a garbage QB.....of course that total will climb when Cassel comes to town.  It takes three years to develope as a wr in the NFL....Bowe is elite, two 1000 yards seasons since he came in to the NFL?  What more do you want!?

Also, Dwayne Bowe had much better numbers than Welker over his first two season in the NFL.  It was when Welker started working with Brady and Cassel that his true talent shined.  Of course you can compare Bowe and Welker.  I would bet you never watched Welker before 2007.  I saw him a few times a year when he played NE and I saw the potential there.  Common sense says that if Welker increased his numbers 40% playing with Cassel and Brady...that Bowe will increase his numbers also.  In regards to Moss, no one does well in Oakland....it is what it is.
Right....but KC now has the guy who put some of the talent on that NE team and they have some good players also.  Do you know a lot of the guys on KC?  Herm didn't know how to use them correctly.  We already know how good Cassel can be when he has the right tools.  Again, Moss and Welker were not what they are now until they started working with Brady and then Cassel.  Moss is fast....but the fastest, no. KC has 58 mill in cap space, and they have a lot og draft picks.  Pioli will turn it around.  Look for them to be contenders within two years.

Belichick didn't make Brady.  He's not an offensive coordinator, not a QB coach, and doesn't call plays on offense.  He gets props for recognizing Brady's potential and for giving him the opportunity, but it's really a stretch to say he made Brady. 

I'm not saying Edwards is as good as Belichick, just making the point that great players make great coaches.  Edwards had a winning record in NY with pretty average players and a losing record in KC with crappy players. 

You know why Belichick was 36 and 44 in Cleveland?  Because his QBs were Kosar, Tomczak, and Testaverde. 

It really doesn't matter what Welker did before he got to NE.  The fact is today he is arguably the best slot in the NFL and Moss, when he feels like playing, is arguably the most dangerous WR in the NFL.  Cassel won't have that combination in KC. 

You don't think Moss is the fastest WR in football?  I haven't seen anyone faster, particularly at his size. 

But back to Cutler, now I'm hearing they aren't trying to trade him.  That's probably because they couldn't get a good enough offer.  What a mess they created.  Not a good start for the new crew.  Plus they might lose Marshall to suspension. 

EDIT:  Edwards had a losing record in NY too, but had winning seasons 3 out of 5 years. 

[body88]

Belichick didn't make Brady.  He's not an offensive coordinator, not a QB coach, and doesn't call plays on offense.  He gets props for recognizing Brady's potential and for giving him the opportunity, but it's really a stretch to say he made Brady. 

I said that they made each other.....not that Belichick made Brady.   Belichick does call offensive plays from time to time and he does have final say in all gameplans and drafting. He would work with McDaniel's on plays over the course of a game. Belichick recognized the talent in Brady, Cassel and Bledsoe.

I'm not saying Edwards is as good as Belichick, just making the point that great players make great coaches.  Edwards had a winning record in NY with pretty average players and a losing record in KC with crappy players. 

Was that his team?  Why do Jets fans think he is a putz?  He had a crappy team in KC because he does not know how to coach his talent, imo.

You know why Belichick was 36 and 44 in Cleveland?  Because his QBs were Kosar, Tomczak, and Testaverde. 

Thats far from the only reason Belichick had that record.  It was not just the qb's.

It really doesn't matter what Welker did before he got to NE.  The fact is today he is arguably the best slot in the NFL and Moss, when he feels like playing, is arguably the most dangerous WR in the NFL.  Cassel won't have that combination in KC. 

Yes it does.  We are comparing Dwayne Bowe Wes Welker.  Bowe has better numbers over his first two years in a similar situation in Miami.  Cassel will make Bowe even better....but its hard to improve on over a 1000 yards a season. 

You have no idea what Cassel will have.  The chiefs have money, players and the draft.  They also have Tony G and Bowe which are pretty damn good.

You don't think Moss is the fastest WR in football?  I haven't seen anyone faster, particularly at his size.

 
Not anymore.  He's very fast but not the fastest.

But back to Cutler, now I'm hearing they aren't trying to trade him.  That's probably because they couldn't get a good enough offer.  What a mess they created.  Not a good start for the new crew.  Plus they might lose Marshall to suspension. 

It is what it is.  It's McDaniel's show and if Cutler is a whiner he won't want him.

EDIT:  Edwards had a losing record in NY too, but had winning seasons 3 out of 5 years. 

Most Jets fans I know think he was a horrid coach.  I agree....he sucks from a tactical standpoint, he's just a nice guy.

[Dos Equis]

I said that they made each other.....not that Belichick made Brady.   Belichick does call offensive plays from time to time and he does have final say in all gameplans and drafting. He would work with McDaniel's on plays over the course of a game. Belichick recognized the talent in Brady, Cassel and Bledsoe.
 
Was that his team?  Why do Jets fans think he is a putz?  He had a crappy team in KC because he does not know how to coach his talent, imo.
 
Thats far from the only reason Belichick had that record.  It was not just the qb's.
 
Yes it does.  We are comparing Dwayne Bowe Wes Welker.  Bowe has better numbers over his first two years in a similar situation in Miami.  Cassel will make Bowe even better....but its hard to improve on over a 1000 yards a season. 

You have no idea what Cassel will have.  The chiefs have money, players and the draft.  They also have Tony G and Bowe which are pretty damn good. 
Not anymore.  He's very fast but not the fastest.
 
It is what it is.  It's McDaniel's show and if Cutler is a whiner he won't want him.
 
Most Jets fans I know think he was a horrid coach.  I agree....he sucks from a tactical standpoint, he's just a nice guy.

I have a very good idea of what Cassel will have his first year, and it will not be Moss or Welker.  I also know he's not going to have two stud WRs (barring a trade for someone like Ocho Cinco).     

What WRs in the NFL are faster than Moss?  I can't think of any.  I'm talking WRs who can actually play and not combine phenoms.

I have no idea why Jets fans you spoke to didn't like Edwards.   

Hard to deny that they did not start well in Denver.  If you're going to trade your franchise QB, at least tell the guy beforehand.  Not a smart move.  But I'm they'll all get over it.   

[Option D]

I have a very good idea of what Cassel will have his first year, and it will not be Moss or Welker.  I also know he's not going to have two stud WRs (barring a trade for someone like Ocho Cinco).     

What WRs in the NFL are faster than Moss?  I can't think of any.  I'm talking WRs who can actually play and not combine phenoms.

I have no idea why Jets fans you spoke to didn't like Edwards.   

Hard to deny that they did not start well in Denver.  If you're going to trade your franchise QB, at least tell the guy beforehand.  Not a smart move.  But I'm they'll all get over it.   

They will be bad next season. Not bottom of the barrell because they have a stud at left tackle. And its hard to suck when you have the best left tackle in the game. It atleast gives your QB time and it gives some running lanes.. Skill Position in is good with Marshall, Royal, Champ, And i think they got B=DAWK..But whats going to hurt is their meat and Potato Positions. Defensive line and line backer, Running back and full back. Icing with no cake..

[Dos Equis]

They will be bad next season. Not bottom of the barrell because they have a stud at left tackle. And its hard to suck when you have the best left tackle in the game. It atleast gives your QB time and it gives some running lanes.. Skill Position in is good with Marshall, Royal, Champ, And i think they got B=DAWK..But whats going to hurt is their meat and Potato Positions. Defensive line and line backer, Running back and full back. Icing with no cake..

They signed Jordan and Arrington to compete at RB, so at least they'll have a little to work with.  I agree they will probably be bad. 

Although . . . the do play in a pretty weak division. 

[Option D]

They signed Jordan and Arrington to compete at RB, so at least they'll have a little to work with.  I agree they probably be bad. 

Although . . . the do play in a pretty weak division. 

Average at  best..

But think about the division. San Diego will be there, Kansas will bring up the rear only because of the major changes. But they did get an upgrade at QB..The dark horse is the Raiders.

Underrated Defense. Those dudes get it done
Solid Running Game. Fargas, McFadden, Bush..those dudes can run
Yes there is a big ? at QB but if they can depend on the run in a division that gives up tons of running yards, Russel wont have to put it up as much. They kist needed to be stable. They are now.

[tonymctones]

I dont think cassel would have done any better then cutler in denver last year that being said i dont know if cutler would have done any better then cassel in New england last year. One thing is for sure new england had more talent surronding cassel then denver had surronding cutler or at least more talent spread out over the team. I would say picking up cassel is somewhat of a risk right now, he spent how many seasons learning the pats program, plays and players? bringing him into a new program will definitly be tough, ill tell you this though dwayne bowe will be alot higher in fantasy drafts this year.

[Dos Equis]

Average at  best..

But think about the division. San Diego will be there, Kansas will bring up the rear only because of the major changes. But they did get an upgrade at QB..The dark horse is the Raiders.

Underrated Defense. Those dudes get it done
Solid Running Game. Fargas, McFadden, Bush..those dudes can run
Yes there is a big ? at QB but if they can depend on the run in a division that gives up tons of running yards, Russel wont have to put it up as much. They kist needed to be stable. They are now.

Arrington is average.  Jordan is decent.  But remember what average RBs have done in that Denver offense.  On the other hand, that was under Shanny.

I'm not expecting much out of the AFC West.  It's San Diego and everyone else.   

[Dos Equis]

I dont think cassel would have done any better then cutler in denver last year that being said i dont know if cutler would have done any better then cassel in New england last year. One thing is for sure new england had more talent surronding cassel then denver had surronding cutler or at least more talent spread out over the team. I would say picking up cassel is somewhat of a risk right now, he spent how many seasons learning the pats program, plays and players? bringing him into a new program will definitly be tough, ill tell you this though dwayne bowe will be alot higher in fantasy drafts this year.

Yep.  That's pretty much what I was saying:  Cutler is fine, Cassel is a risk.   

[Option D]

Arrington is average.  Jordan is decent.  But remember what average RBs have done in that Denver offense.  On the other hand, that was under Shanny.

I'm not expecting much out of the AFC West.  It's San Diego and everyone else.   

Oh yeah..Im sure Shanny could make anyone look like a star.."olandis Gary...lol" but Shanny aint there no more..So denver will be a mess..

On another note..Al Davis will get T.O.

[body88]

Yep.  That's pretty much what I was saying:  Cutler is fine, Cassel is a risk.   

Your argument makes no sense.  Cutler is the bigger Risk to Mcdaniels than Cassel is.  Josh is changing the Denver system to the patriots system.  Matt Cassel works in the Patriots system.  Matt Cassel is a good leader.  Matt Cassel is not a poor locker room leader...and Matt Cassel was just coached for three years by Josh McDaniel's.  Josh is going to have to teach Cutler the NE system and all their plays.  Cassel knows all this already.  For some reason you seem to think that Denver is going to be Denver next year.  It's not....its going to be made into a spread style O with a 3/4 D.....just like the....PATS.

Is Cutler a great QB? Yes.  Will Cutler be good in the Pats system? I don't know.  One thing is for sure though, Cassel is good in the pats system.  Saying Cassel is a bigger risk to Denver when McDaniel's has coached Cassel for 3 years, is implementing a patriots system in Denver and is looking for a QB to run the system that Cassel excelled in is inaccurate and uniformed.

In the Pats system Cassel is more proven than Cutler.  Cutler plays in the Shanahan system.

[body88]

Oh yeah..Im sure Shanny could make anyone look like a star.."olandis Gary...lol" but Shanny aint there no more..So denver will be a mess..

On another note..Al Davis will get T.O.

How do you figure they will be a mess?  They just got a coach who led the most potent O in NFL history and learned from one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game....I think he might know a thing or two.  You might want to give him a shot.

[Option D]

How do you figure they will be a mess?  They just got a coach who led the most potent O in NFL history and learned from one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game....I think he might know a thing or two.  You might want to give him a shot.

Tempermantal QB. New System...it can get ugly. The reason new coaches worked in Atlanta is because if a team has a good running game (2nd in nfl) it takes pressure off a QB and a coach can coach. But with the talent in Denver..looks like Jay will have to learn a new system that will lean on him a lot..

[Dos Equis]

How do you know this?  Josh McDaniel's is going to run a different system than Shanny.  He is going to run the Patriots system.  Josh KNOWS that Cassel is good in the patriots system and there is no way to tell if Cutler will be just as effective in that system.  To Josh McDaniel's ( not Mike Shanahan) Matt Cassel is less of a risk in his system.  he just coached the kid to an 11-5 season, and he has worked with him for three years.

I don't think you base your opinions on logic.  Am I saying Cutler should be traded, no. I'm saying that if he was it would make perfect sense considering the Broncos are not longer the broncos ( Totally different system and totally different defense being put in.)

How I do know that Cutler is going to be fine?  I don't know.  The NE "system" still involves taking snaps, reading defenses, finding opens WRs, and completing passes, all things Cutler has proved he is capable of doing.  So, I'm making an assumption that Cutler will continue to be a good NFL QB, just like you are making an assumption that Cassel poses no risk at all and will be a great NFL QB.  

Dude what are you talking about?  What exactly is illogical about me saying Cutler is a good NFL QB and Cassel is still a risk??    

[body88]

How I do know that Cutler is going to be fine?  I don't know.  The NE "system" still involves taking snaps, reading defenses, finding opens WRs, and completing passes, all things Cutler has proved he is capable of doing.  So, I'm making an assumption that Cutler will continue to be a good NFL QB, just like you are making an assumption that Cassel poses no risk at all and will be a great NFL QB.  

Dude what are you talking about?  What exactly is illogical about me saying Cutler is a good NFL QB and Cassel is still a risk??    

First off, it's much more complicated than that.  The pats run a hybrid - spread style O with different terminology and plays than Denver.  Cutler will need to be taught the system and all the language  I'm not making any assumptions....I'm trying to tell you that Josh McDaniel's knows that Matt can thrive in his system.  He knows this for a fact.

Your illogical by Saying Cassel is more of a risk than Cutler is in McDaniel's system.  Again, Josh just coached Cassel for three years, do you think he has no clue what he is doing?  Josh is changing the whole team around.  The trade would make sense.

Cutler is a good NFL QB....But Josh knows Cassel is what he needs in his system and he is a good leader.  Cutler has a bad attitude.  Maybe Josh does not like him and maybe he will not be happy in Josh's system.

[Dos Equis]

First off, it's much more complicated than that.  The pats run a hybrid - spread style O with different terminology and plays than Denver.  Cutler will need to be taught the system and all the language  I'm not making any assumptions....I'm trying to tell you that Josh McDaniel's knows that Matt can thrive in his system.  He knows this for a fact.

Your illogical by Saying Cassel is more of a risk than Cutler is in McDaniel's system.  Again, Josh just coached Cassel for three years, do you think he has no clue what he is doing?  Josh is changing the whole team around.  The trade would make sense.

No it isn't more complicated than that.  It's football.  Unless they are speaking Chinese, it doesn't matter if a new "system" will be put in place.  He'll learn new plays just like he did when he was drafted.  They're not going to be running something completely foreign like the wishbone (or whatever they call it now).  I watch the games too.  It's not that complicated.  I doubt he will install anything more complicated than what Shanahan ran.  Shanahan was a great offensive play caller and great judge of talent.  I doubt McDaniel will be in any more sophisticated than Shanahan.

lol . . . So you know for a fact that Cassel is not a risk?  And you're calling me illogical?  Get real.  You're sounding like a homer.   

McDaniel coached Cassel for 15 games, which only included about 8 good starts.  You are ready to crown the kid after about 8 good starts.  I'm not.  I don't know much about McDaniel, but I do know he showed his inexperience by trying to trade his franchise QB without even telling the QB he was on the block, then apparently lying about it.  That certainly doesn't sound like he knows what he's doing.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether Cassel would have been an upgrade over Cutler.   

[Dos Equis]

Doesn't sound good.  Cutler also apparently put his house on the market. 

Cutler, McDaniels finally meet
   
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) -- Jay Cutler finally met face-to-face with Josh McDaniels over the weekend, but nothing was resolved, leading to doubt the quarterback will show up for the new coach's first team meeting Monday.

Team spokesman Patrick Smyth told The Associated Press on Sunday that the coach and quarterback involved in a simmering feud over trade talks met Saturday at the team's training facility and both sides agreed to regroup and continue conversations.

Denver station KCNC-TV reported that the meeting didn't go well, and The Denver Post reported that words were exchanged between Cutler and McDaniels.

The Broncos insist they're not going to trade Cutler.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/03/15/broncos.cutler.ap/index.html

[Option D]

Doesn't sound good.  Cutler also apparently put his house on the market. 

Cutler, McDaniels finally meet
   
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) -- Jay Cutler finally met face-to-face with Josh McDaniels over the weekend, but nothing was resolved, leading to doubt the quarterback will show up for the new coach's first team meeting Monday.

Team spokesman Patrick Smyth told The Associated Press on Sunday that the coach and quarterback involved in a simmering feud over trade talks met Saturday at the team's training facility and both sides agreed to regroup and continue conversations.

Denver station KCNC-TV reported that the meeting didn't go well, and The Denver Post reported that words were exchanged between Cutler and McDaniels.

The Broncos insist they're not going to trade Cutler.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/03/15/broncos.cutler.ap/index.html

NEWSFLASH TO CUTLER!!!!!!!!!!

You didnt make the playoffs you little fuck..What makes you think youre untouchable. NFL is a business not a boyfriend...



This fuckin kid is makin me sick with all this.

[Dos Equis]

NEWSFLASH TO CUTLER!!!!!!!!!!

You didnt make the playoffs you little fuck..What makes you think youre untouchable. NFL is a business not a boyfriend...



This fuckin kid is makin me sick with all this.

I don't think his beef is with being on the block.  It's the fact they tried to trade him without telling him and then lied about it. 

[body88]

I don't think his beef is with being on the block.  It's the fact they tried to trade him without telling him and then lied about it. 

Who cares?  Cutler is not untouchable.  Baby.

[Dos Equis]

Who cares?  Cutler is not untouchable.  Baby.

Cutler cares, which is why he's upset.  I don't think the issue is whether or not he untouchable.  I doubt that's his beef.  It's whether the team should have told it's franchise QB they were trying to trade him.  There also has to be a trust factor given how they lied about trying to trade him.  I don't blame Cutler at all for being upset. 

[body88]

Cutler cares, which is why he's upset.  I don't think the issue is whether or not he untouchable.  I doubt that's his beef.  It's whether the team should have told it's franchise QB they were trying to trade him.  There also has to be a trust factor given how they lied about trying to trade him.  I don't blame Cutler at all for being upset. 

I don't either, but I can see why Mc D would want to bring in Cassel.  However, I am starting to agree with you more as to McDaniel's handling this whole thing poorly.  Apparently Cutler wanted to sit down and hash things out, but in the third meeting McDaniel's made it clear that he did not want Cutler to be his QB.  At least Mc D should have smoothed things over just for this season and then traded him....there has to be a reason why they don't want this kid.  Mc D is a rational and smart man.

On a side note, Cutler is a crybaby and a poor team leader....also, he has done nothing over his tenure in Denver (from a winning standpoint).  The Bronc's were willing to eat 20 mill to get Shanny out, so I bet they are in agreement with Mc D regarding Cassel.