sergio vs arnold story....Chick or any other experts know the truth??

[Mcmuscle]

sergio was the most massive old school bodybuilder!no doubt about that, but his looks resembeles more that of a powerlifter in good shape than a bodybuilder.....
I think it was i jon hoitens muscle book i read that arnold tricked him at an olympia???the posed and it was a close race so arnold said lets finish and go back stage...than arnold ran back out and posed some more and won the show.....any oldtimers or historians who can confirm this story?
peace

[crownshep]

Read this.

http://ironage.us/yabbse/index.php?topic=2340.0

[Army of One]

sergio was the most massive old school bodybuilder!no doubt about that, but his looks resembeles more that of a powerlifter in good shape than a bodybuilder.....
I think it was i jon hoitens muscle book i read that arnold tricked him at an olympia???the posed and it was a close race so arnold said lets finish and go back stage...than arnold ran back out and posed some more and won the show.....any oldtimers or historians who can confirm this story?
peace

I hate this BS, its always obvious within the first 10 mins of people posing together who is going to win, all this tricks to win stuff is Crap.

[BEAST 8692]

sergio was the most massive old school bodybuilder!no doubt about that, but his looks resembeles more that of a powerlifter in good shape than a bodybuilder.....
I think it was i jon hoitens muscle book i read that arnold tricked him at an olympia???the posed and it was a close race so arnold said lets finish and go back stage...than arnold ran back out and posed some more and won the show.....any oldtimers or historians who can confirm this story?
peace

actually, his shape is more 'bber' than arnold ie x frame (classic mesomorph if you believe in somatotypes) with thick full muscle bellies.

biggest problem with sergio is that he was born black. apart from that, arnold was much smarter and had a great business acumen.

arnold lost his first big comp in usa to zane because he believed that the bigger bber should win. the result of that comp was, the more cut zane won and arnold listened to the judges and made sure he'd never lose again on that philosophy.

with sergio, unfortunately for him he always believed he had some divine right to win because he could never accept that anyone had a better physique than him. thus he never came in as cut as arnold, which was just what the ifbb needed to make sure arnold remained on top (he was just more marketable than sergio as shitty as that sounds).

[Pollux]

sergio was the most massive old school bodybuilder!no doubt about that, but his looks resembeles more that of a powerlifter in good shape than a bodybuilder.....
I think it was i jon hoitens muscle book i read that arnold tricked him at an olympia???the posed and it was a close race so arnold said lets finish and go back stage...than arnold ran back out and posed some more and won the show.....any oldtimers or historians who can confirm this story?
peace

Yes, it's true. Sergio himself has confirmed this, but in the same breath has said it's bullshit that people thought he had "given up". Sergio also expressed that was NOT the reason he lost because of Arnold's so-called trick.

This incident was actually caught on tape at the '70 Olympia and can be seen on GMV's DVD, Arnold: The Early Years.

[GoneAway]

someone, somewhere, has to have these old olympias on tape. anyone have a list of the actual full, or near-full olympias that are available?

[BEAST 8692]

Read this.

http://ironage.us/yabbse/index.php?topic=2340.0

just read it.

i didn't even think that this was in contention. it is completely consistant with everything i've seen and read of arnold. hell, even watching pumping iron will tell you this much. arnold was a typical highly competitive athlete that used everything he had at his disposal to win, including his wit. how about what he was saying in reference to franco about mind fucking him in the prep or breakfast with lou, the "it's not your year this time lou. you haven't peaked. you'll be better in another year but then, so will i..." or words to that effect. then lou's dad saying, "you are the king of kings, arnold." lol, was i the only one noticing lou shot down in flames right there?

it's like how ali did all that shit talking and posturing with liston, frazier and foreman. he knew exactly how to taunt these guys simply because he thought outside the box and realised that psychology is a very powerful weapon in sports.

i'm not morally justifying waht arnold did any more than ali calling frasier an 'uncle tom (for his being managed by whites, as if ali didn't start his pro career exactly in that fashion), liston an ugly gorrilla or insighting africans to keep chanting "ali, boombayae" (translates to ali kill him) and, by fight night, every african in africa wanted to see foreman die and he knew it.

or bernard hopkins throwing the puerto rican flag on the ground in front of felix trinnidad before their mw title bout which was pretty ballsy considering hops was in puerto rica at the time (hyping the fight) in front of thousands.

psychology is the weapon not to be ignored if you want to be the best.

[pumpster]

As i've said many times, most of Arnold's claims about psyching out others is just rhetoric, told and retold well after the fact because as we see here, many still buy it true or not. It's easy to be guillible when none of the other BBs of the day effectively communicated or refuted what is to this day largely unproven BS.

Perception > reality.

Especially when the other BBs were a bunch of stiffs when it came to communicating. Easy pickings for master marketers Weider and his excellent student, who were in an altogether different league from the other guys. The smarter BBs who never went for the crap weren't shown in Pumping Iron (no coincidence)-guys in the '80 Olympia like Dickerson, Mentzer, etc., others like Pearl.

Add to that the fact that he was white, that the contest decisions were largely preordained and you have something akin to wrestling, including Arnold's BS.

[GoneAway]

As i've said many times, most of Arnold's claims about psyching out others is just rhetoric, told and retold well after the fact because as we see here, many still buy it true or not, and none of the other BBs of the day effectively communicated or refuted what is largely unproven BS.

Perception > reality.

Especially when the other BBs were a bunch of stiffs when it came to communicating. Easy pickings.

Add to that the fact that he was white, that the contest decisions were largely preordained and you have something akin to wrestling, including Arnold's BS.

i agree that alot of decisions in bbing are suspect, and one can get away with a possibly unjust decision by saying reason A or reason B gave him the edge over competitor A or B. but it was so close between arnold and sergio, u really could give those reasons with it being justified. thats bbing. like it or lump it

[pumpster]

i agree that alot of decisions in bbing are suspect, and one can get away with a possibly unjust decision by saying reason A or reason B gave him the edge over competitor A or B. but it was so close between arnold and sergio, u really could give those reasons with it being justified. thats bbing. like it or lump it

Agreed, very close in which case all the intanbiles made a difference. In more neutral contests it would've been different, less predictable. In which case i think Sergio enters the Olympia in '73 and '74, as Arnold expected him to, which was clearly why he was in his best shape for those shows.

[Cap]

To say nothing of the fact that 2 black BBers hold the all time win record. 

Sergio was in worse shape than Arnold every year and Arnold outmassed him.

[pumpster]

To say nothing of the fact that 2 black BBers hold the all time win record. 

Sergio was in worse shape than Arnold every year and Arnold outmassed him.

No idea where that came from; in '72 Oliva was in better shape and bigger, based on superior waist to lat, waist to shoulder, waist to quad and waist to arm ratios. Thus the general concensus to this day that he was unfairly denied that year.

After that he never entered the Olympia in his prime, challenged Schwarzenegger directly while on stage in a neutral show that Arnold refused to compete in.

[NeoSeminole]

After that he never entered the Olympia, challenged Schwarzenegger directly while on stage in a neutral show that Arnold refused to compete in.

Sergio did enter the Mr. Olympia much later. I don't know what years though.

[pumpster]

Sergio did enter the Mr. Olympia much later. I don't know what years though.

Mid-80s when he was 63. Something like Joe Lewis against Marciano.

Haney never wins an Olympia against Oliva or Schwarzenegger in their primes.

[NeoSeminole]

After that he never entered the Olympia in his prime

I see what you did there.

[pumpster]

I see what you did there.

Well someone's on my ass, i thought it was ND sniffin round.

[Cap]

Mid-80s when he was 63. Something like Joe Lewis against Marciano.

Haney never wins an Olympia against Oliva or Schwarzenegger in their primes.

He was 43.

Agreed that Haney blew.  People talk about Jay's arms but Haney severely lacked arm size.

As far as Sergio's challenge, I believe Arnold was off-season and out of shape when the challenge occurred.

[Havenbull]

sergio was the most massive old school bodybuilder!no doubt about that, but his looks resembeles more that of a powerlifter in good shape than a bodybuilder.....
I think it was i jon hoitens muscle book i read that arnold tricked him at an olympia???the posed and it was a close race so arnold said lets finish and go back stage...than arnold ran back out and posed some more and won the show.....any oldtimers or historians who can confirm this story?
peace

Arnold's a winner, and that's what winners do 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Mid-80s when he was 63. Something like Joe Lewis against Marciano.

Haney never wins an Olympia against Oliva or Schwarzenegger in their primes.

LMFAO when he was 63 how stupid can you be? Sergio entered the 1984 Mr Olympia 43 years old and he was gifted 8th place , and he returned in 1985 and was gifted 8th place again .

[NarcissisticDeity]

No idea where that came from; in '72 Oliva was in better shape and bigger, based on superior waist to lat, waist to shoulder, waist to quad and waist to arm ratios. Thus the general concensus to this day that he was unfairly denied that year.

After that he never entered the Olympia in his prime, challenged Schwarzenegger directly while on stage in a neutral show that Arnold refused to compete in.

You have the story wrong sport , we've been through this already , Sergio while at the contest challenged Arnold to a pose down , he was told he wanted his shot at Arnold to enter the Olympia , Sergio refused he wanted Arnold right there and then while he was contest ready and Arnold wasn't , Arnold wanted to accept the challenge Weider said NO if he wants you let him come to the Olympia , Franco Columbu accepted the challenge and went pose or pose with Sergio and at the end the promoter raised both their arms indicating it was a DRAW , the best he could manage was a draw with Franco and he's supposed to dominate Arnold lol great thinking . 

[Cap]

actually, his shape is more 'bber' than arnold ie x frame (classic mesomorph if you believe in somatotypes) with thick full muscle bellies.

biggest problem with sergio is that he was born black. apart from that, arnold was much smarter and had a great business acumen.

arnold lost his first big comp in usa to zane because he believed that the bigger bber should win. the result of that comp was, the more cut zane won and arnold listened to the judges and made sure he'd never lose again on that philosophy.

with sergio, unfortunately for him he always believed he had some divine right to win because he could never accept that anyone had a better physique than him. thus he never came in as cut as arnold, which was just what the ifbb needed to make sure arnold remained on top (he was just more marketable than sergio as shitty as that sounds).

He was never conditioned or cut like Arnie and he had size over Sergio.

Not only was Arnold more marketable but he was the better bodybuilder.

[NarcissisticDeity]

He was never conditioned or cut like Arnie and he had size over Sergio.

Not only was Arnold more marketable but he was the better bodybuilder.

yes folks its that simple ! Arnold learned from his defeats Sergio didn't.

[GoneAway]

You have the story wrong sport , we've been through this already , Sergio while at the contest challenged Arnold to a pose down , he was told he wanted his shot at Arnold to enter the Olympia , Sergio refused he wanted Arnold right there and then while he was contest ready and Arnold wasn't , Arnold wanted to accept the challenge Weider said NO if he wants you let him come to the Olympia , Franco Columbu accepted the challenge and went pose or pose with Sergio and at the end the promoter raised both their arms indicating it was a DRAW , the best he could manage was a draw with Franco and he's supposed to dominate Arnold lol great thinking . 

pics please!

some shots from the 72 olympia...

[Cap]

Man, Sergio is blowing away Arnold with his Munzer like condition.     Those back shots show Sergio was clearly lacking in cuts and condition.  If tiny waists and big arms were the only criteria for a Mr. Olympia win then Haney would have lost and guys like Flex and Robby would have a ton of wins.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Arnold showing much better separation & detail from the back