sergio vs arnold story....Chick or any other experts know the truth??

[pumpster]

Jones measured everyone that trained with him, I guess he was out to get arnie and lied about his arm size. No doubt his left arm was 19 ish, it has no peak and you never see him flex it straight on.  Arnie had a tall peak, thats about all.

Actually Schwarzenegger had pretty good triceps size, it's just that many don't understand anatomy and are fooled in the same way many are with Coleman. In both cases the biceps were so outrageous so as to distract from the good triceps size. Part of the misperception is based on the fact that in both cases they lacked extreme triceps definition that would've hilighted the size better.

It's clear that Oliva and Schwarzenegger had about the same absolute arm measurement despite a Jones measurement that might've been suspect given the acrimony between he and Weider.

The absolute size was about the same, in terms of size relative to structure and height Oliva had the edge. Schwarzenegger had a clear advantage in refinement and separation.

The pictures make it clear that the absolute measurements were very close. In the second shot Arnold's arms are at an angle. Good triceps size on both guys.

[BEAST 8692]

Actually Schwarzenegger had pretty good triceps size, it's just that many don't understand anatomy and are fooled in the same way many are with Coleman. In both cases the biceps were so outrageous so as to distract from the good triceps size. Part of the misperception is based on the fact that in both cases they lacked extreme triceps definition, but not size.

It's clear that Oliva and Schwarzenegger had about the same absolute arm measurement despite a Jones measurement that might've been suspect given the acrimony between he and Weider. The absolute size was about the same, in terms of size relative to structure and height Oliva had the edge.

actually it's not clear and your post appears more speculative than substantive.

each of these bbers had competely different arms.

sergio's bis and tris were much fuller and longer, but it's plain to see (imo) that, at his peak, his tris were bigger.

of course i am speculating too, so off to find evidence that comes from someone who actually met both men and measured their arms in front of numerous people, including franco columbu (who was arnold's best friend and would see for himself if the fix was in.

caey viator was the protege arthur was propping up as evidence of his hit advantages over volume training favoured by the weider bbers. if any arm measurement was to be supected it was his, but arthur openly declared that arnold had the bigger arm.

[kevcat]

Because sergio looked better, arnie had sloped shoulders, no forearms, over developed chest, under developed tris and a thick blocky waist. Sergio was the total package and lost because of politics- I would guess thats where the debate arises

Yeh a thick blocky waist of 28inches, very good ........
If you wana talk about proportions then Sergios dont quite match up.If Arnold has an 'over developed chest', then id say Sergio is all arms and not much else in those pics.I wouldnt say over developed like you, but the rest of his body doesnt match up.

[kevcat]

I also think if Arnold decided to just keep getting bigger instead of being more defined ( when he lost to Zane ) he wouldve dwarfed Oliva. he looked enormous at 19 when he was all bulk and not much cuts

[pumpster]

actually it's not clear and your post appears more speculative than substantive.

each of these bbers had competely different arms.

sergio's bis and tris were much fuller and longer, but it's plain to see (imo) that, at his peak, his tris were bigger.

Actually you're speculating as much as anyone. Triceps are just under 2/3s of arm size, not 3/4s, a considerable difference. It didn't seem to occur to you to measure on the screen, so do it-that's more tangible and less speculative than anything you guess or i say.  There are precisely *zero* pics out there that show a huge difference in absolute arm size between them.

If Oliva's tris are assumed bigger, it's just as accurate to assume that Schwarzenegger's bis were bigger. Either you accept the premise of both or neither, since it's not easily proven in either case. Thus by visual and/or measurement bottom line is that it's quite a reasonable premise that the arms were about the same absolute size, as confirmed by the pics.

Plus Arnold was generally in better shape, with a striking advantage in arm definition. He could've just as easily gone back up to his former 250 lb. and had smooth arms like Oliva if he wanted more arm size. Oliva's arms were bigger in relative terms because of smaller wrists and less height.

[Lord Humungous]

Yeh a thick blocky waist of 28inches, very good ........
If you wana talk about proportions then Sergios dont quite match up.If Arnold has an 'over developed chest', then id say Sergio is all arms and not much else in those pics.I wouldnt say over developed like you, but the rest of his body doesnt match up.

Ummm your a retard  Sergio was lucky if his waist was 28-29 inches and was much smaller than arnolds- by no means fat, just blocky and wide. Ok arnolds chest wasnt over developed, his body was a little under developed then 

[kevcat]

Ok you got me there, i was mixed up becos Sergios was claimed to be 28inches, my mistake.

[kevcat]

How was his body 'under-developed' then? Explain....

[pumpster]

Ummm your a retard  Sergio was lucky if his waist was 28-29 inches and was much smaller than arnolds- by no means fat, just blocky and wide. Ok arnolds chest wasnt over developed, his body was a little under developed then 

Sergio's waist was smaller, but Arnold's was good relative to the lats and shoulder width. It's impossible to say who was better because they each had strengths the other didn't, whether some want to acknowledge it or not.

Anyone who unequivocally says one guy was better than the other is exercising personal bias. What makes the comparisons interesting is they they were so close in different ways.

[kevcat]

agree with pumpster, what a fascinating rivalry it must have been, if only they competed more against each other, and i was alive to see it 

[DAMY]

In my opinion Arnolds muscles were prettier or more shpely if you like that sort of thing and sergio had the freakyness wasp waist balloon arms sergios arms were so big if you made a figurine to scale it would fall over. Arnold went all out fpor size so when he got to 235 ijn shqape you can bet hed strugglke to get more muscle it wasn't in Arnolds nature to do anything by halves.

Sergios head was like a fuckin malteser too which made his arms and the rest of his body look even bigger and freakier. In the end though its apples and oranges.

The old story about the trick on stage arnold and his pet sardinian terrier had been trying to fuck with sergio all day,they asked him to go get some chips and ketchup before the show or the prejudge Im not sure which. On stage arnold told serge he was pissed off with posing down, he was ready to quot if serge was. Sergio reportedly walked off stage, arnold stayed and the crowd presumed he'd surenedered to arnold.

That's crap in my opinion I've met sergio and he isn't that dumb. He'd never let arnold gain the advantage like that. More to the point an audience wouldn't buy it, sergio just giving up especially against arnold. I think if you could trace half of the arnold legendss back to the source the source would be arnold himslef.

Arnolds a heck of a guy but like many sucessfull people he's a bullshit merchant. I've met him too by the way done the odd small biut of business with him and his reps. And take it from me he's the most fake person you'll ever meet. I don't think he even tries to be sincere these days doesn't really have to.

Not the kind of geezer I could have as a friend thats for sure.

Damy 

[Pollux]

I also think if Arnold decided to just keep getting bigger instead of being more defined ( when he lost to Zane ) he wouldve dwarfed Oliva. he looked enormous at 19 when he was all bulk and not much cuts

Arnold 19 years old at the '66 NABBA Universe...

[kevcat]

This was more of the younger Arnold i was meaning....

[Pollux]

This was more of the younger Arnold i was meaning....

OK. Then that would be roughly 20-21 years old where he's posing at the Thal lake.

[natural al]

I didn't read all the posts on here but I think it's pretty safe to say that Oliva got screwed going againts arnold.   Arnold was just the right guy at the right time, don't get me wrong he was very, very good but I dont' think he realistically could have beaten sergio if all things were equal....I also don't think he would have beaten serge nubret in 75 had weider not told serge he couldn't compete but then let him once he lost 12lbs or however that story goes.

[pumpster]

 Arnold was just the right guy at the right time, don't get me wrong he was very, very good but I dont' think he realistically could have beaten sergio if all things were equal....I also don't think he would have beaten serge nubret in 75 had weider not told serge he couldn't compete but then let him once he lost 12lbs or however that story goes.

When they were both at their best it was apples and oranges, no way to say who was better. Oliva was never in Arnold's 1973 condition, which by the way was probably inspired by the fact that Oliva was expected to enter the show. All through the 1970s and in to the 80s most of the top BBs left the IFBB & Weider thanks to politics, which of course distorted the Olympia results.

Which means that in more neutral shows they would've taken turns winning and losing, making for a more interesting rivalry that could've extended into the mid or late 70s.

Both Arnold and Oliva would beat Nubret, because of Nubret's more pronounced deficiencies and the fact that he was noticably smaller albeit still huge.

[pumpster]

In my opinion Arnolds muscles were prettier or more shpely if you like that sort of thing and sergio had the freakyness wasp waist balloon arms sergios arms were so big if you made a figurine to scale it would fall over. Arnold went all out fpor size so when he got to 235 ijn shqape you can bet hed strugglke to get more muscle it wasn't in Arnolds nature to do anything by halves.

Sergios head was like a fuckin malteser too which made his arms and the rest of his body look even bigger and freakier. In the end though its apples and oranges.

The old story about the trick on stage arnold and his pet sardinian terrier had been trying to fuck with sergio all day,they asked him to go get some chips and ketchup before the show or the prejudge Im not sure which. On stage arnold told serge he was pissed off with posing down, he was ready to quot if serge was. Sergio reportedly walked off stage, arnold stayed and the crowd presumed he'd surenedered to arnold.

That's crap in my opinion I've met sergio and he isn't that dumb. He'd never let arnold gain the advantage like that. More to the point an audience wouldn't buy it, sergio just giving up especially against arnold. I think if you could trace half of the arnold legendss back to the source the source would be arnold himslef.

Arnolds a heck of a guy but like many sucessfull people he's a bullshit merchant. I've met him too by the way done the odd small biut of business with him and his reps. And take it from me he's the most fake person you'll ever meet. I don't think he even tries to be sincere these days doesn't really have to.

Not the kind of geezer I could have as a friend thats for sure.

Damy 

Agree on all counts, especially the parts in bold including the part about Arnold's persona, having seen him in person at a mid-70s Universe.

On Oliva and Nubret, it's really too bad they weren't featured in the movie version of Pumping Iron, to give it a more balanced, less Arnold-centric view but it was clearly a Weider production with none of the other bodybuilders featured being formidable personalities.

[DAMY]

Thank you pumpster Ive been on here on getbig a while now and no buggers answered me til now I don't think. Agree pumpin iron was no more than a showcase for arnold schwarzenegger veryone else is just a tool for him to play off. But lou and franco knew what he was like and it was very naive of them to take his direection in that film. Lets face it its a crap film which makes bbers look like dorky smart asses (arnolkd) or dunces (everybody else).

Infact Ive yet to see a documentary about bodybuilders that doesnt make them look silly and or boring and its their own fault. They dont seem to understand that only what the producer likes is gona make the edit and the producers/director pretty much know what the message or focus is gonna be before shootin begins.

I have me own dvds/videotapes out and i think they okay but thats because i was in charge. Im not gona make meSELF look stupid am I?  but these vids are usually some knob who wants to be a guru (stupid word)and a crowd of shitheads hangin on every word he says. Pumpin iron was no different but people wanted to see it because itd been hyped so much.

Its the same as that fuckin farce deep throat. hollywood A listers flocked to see it bevcausethey thought it was sophisticated. A woman with a clit in her throat. Thats how serious anyone wants to take pumpin iron.

Didnt do anything at all to make BBers look like anything but cretins.

Damy

[Cap]

Thank you pumpster Ive been on here on getbig a while now and no buggers answered me til now I don't think. Agree pumpin iron was no more than a showcase for arnold schwarzenegger veryone else is just a tool for him to play off. But lou and franco knew what he was like and it was very naive of them to take his direection in that film. Lets face it its a crap film which makes bbers look like dorky smart asses (arnolkd) or dunces (everybody else).

Infact Ive yet to see a documentary about bodybuilders that doesnt make them look silly and or boring and its their own fault. They dont seem to understand that only what the producer likes is gona make the edit and the producers/director pretty much know what the message or focus is gonna be before shootin begins.

I have me own dvds/videotapes out and i think they okay but thats because i was in charge. Im not gona make meSELF look stupid am I?  but these vids are usually some knob who wants to be a guru (stupid word)and a crowd of shitheads hangin on every word he says. Pumpin iron was no different but people wanted to see it because itd been hyped so much.

Its the same as that fuckin farce deep throat. hollywood A listers flocked to see it bevcausethey thought it was sophisticated. A woman with a clit in her throat. Thats how serious anyone wants to take pumpin iron.

Didnt do anything at all to make BBers look like anything but cretins.

Damy

You've been registered for a month so I don't think you've been here that long but having met Arnold numerous times I would say your assessment of him is incorrect, at least based on my experience.  If Arnold built himself into a legend, so be it.  He did what worked for him and succeeded.  All the other BBers today could take a page from him but they are just meat heads.  There was/is more to him and he made a lasting name for himself.  No other BBer is known outside that world the way Arnold is, white or black.  Sergio who?  Larry who?

[pumpster]

You've been registered for a month so I don't think you've been here that long but having met Arnold numerous times I would say your assessment of him is incorrect, at least based on my experience.  If Arnold built himself into a legend, so be it.  He did what worked for him and succeeded.  All the other BBers today could take a page from him but they are just meat heads.  There was/is more to him and he made a lasting name for himself.  No other BBer is known outside that world the way Arnold is, white or black.  Sergio who?  Larry who?

How long he's been registered's irrelevant. What's true is that Schwarzenegger can be extremely charming, basically when he choses to be for whatever agenda's in front of him at the moment, and be just as obnoxious, usually when he feels there's no benefit to faking it. He has a loooong history of being a dick, among that 15 or so women including a BBC reporter who was interviewing him, and groping Robby Robinson's girlfriend at Gold's.

Both, not one or the other so no, he's not incorrect i've seen same.

[Cap]

I'm referencing his post about being here a long time.  Seems like a gimmick to me.

[GoneAway]

Thank you pumpster Ive been on here on getbig a while now and no buggers answered me til now I don't think. Agree pumpin iron was no more than a showcase for arnold schwarzenegger veryone else is just a tool for him to play off. But lou and franco knew what he was like and it was very naive of them to take his direection in that film. Lets face it its a crap film which makes bbers look like dorky smart asses (arnolkd) or dunces (everybody else).

Infact Ive yet to see a documentary about bodybuilders that doesnt make them look silly and or boring and its their own fault. They dont seem to understand that only what the producer likes is gona make the edit and the producers/director pretty much know what the message or focus is gonna be before shootin begins.

I have me own dvds/videotapes out and i think they okay but thats because i was in charge. Im not gona make meSELF look stupid am I?  but these vids are usually some knob who wants to be a guru (stupid word)and a crowd of shitheads hangin on every word he says. Pumpin iron was no different but people wanted to see it because itd been hyped so much.

Its the same as that fuckin farce deep throat. hollywood A listers flocked to see it bevcausethey thought it was sophisticated. A woman with a clit in her throat. Thats how serious anyone wants to take pumpin iron.

Didnt do anything at all to make BBers look like anything but cretins.

Damy

u dont like arnold much, huh. imo, he's portrated as smart, anything-to-win, charismatic, easy to get along with, and true to his friends. a dork, hardly. he was the top bber in the world for years in 75, no wonder the guy is confident. he knew what it took to win, and to sell videos.

from what i remember of pumping iron, it's played out to make it a good guy/bad guy/underdog type film. as we know, some of the comments were made up to help it sell. its hardly 100% truthful, so i wouldnt take everything u see as fact.

i dont blame arnold for turning his charm on and off when he needs to. lets face it, no one is nice/friendly all the time and to everyone. we all have good and bad days, as lets face it... most of the guys act differently around women (i.e. turn charms on). why would arnold be any different, except he did it when it helps his reputation and/or gaining money. but i firmly believe that the guy has a very good heart. just look at the charity work he's done with the special olympics, and what his costars have said of him in the various movies he's done.

[BEAST 8692]

arnold was smart and saw pumping iron as a vehicle that he needed to be on.

that's the thing when it comes to guys like sergio and lou. these guys just want to talk about themselves and how big their arms are etc etc (well, in lou's case, his dad did all the talking for him. lou hardly made eye contact with the camera the whole film - stupid).

arnold realised that the general public don't give a shit about diet, exercises etc. they want to hear stuff like how 'pumping up is like cumming'? arnold knew how to think outside himself and put himself into watcher's mind. what did they want from the film.

the rest of the guys just didn't seem to know how to relax. it came across as they were either arrogant ('who is this pencil neck with a camera in my face?'), dumb as a box of hammers (ferrigno and katz) or manipulative and conceited (waller).

imo there should have been a series of doccos like pumping iron where the audience got to know the personalities a bit better. i have no idea why they didn't put guys like nubret or michalik in the film. would have great to have seen serge/michalik in the gym, maybe some footage from nubret's homeland like they did columbu's.

[pumpster]

arnold was smart and saw pumping iron as a vehicle that he needed to be on.

that's the thing when it comes to guys like sergio and lou. these guys just want to talk about themselves and how big their arms are etc etc (well, in lou's case, his dad did all the talking for him. lou hardly made eye contact with the camera the whole film - stupid).

arnold realised that the general public don't give a shit about diet, exercises etc. they want to hear stuff like how 'pumping up is like cumming'? arnold knew how to think outside himself and put himself into watcher's mind. what did they want from the film.

the rest of the guys just didn't seem to know how to relax. it came across as they were either arrogant ('who is this pencil neck with a camera in my face?'), dumb as a box of hammers (ferrigno and katz) or manipulative and conceited (waller).

imo there should have been a series of doccos like pumping iron where the audience got to know the personalities a bit better. i have no idea why they didn't put guys like nubret or michalik in the film. would have great to have seen serge/michalik in the gym, maybe some footage from nubret's homeland like they did columbu's.

Patially it was Arnold's smarts, but it was also the savvy of the producers Butler & Gaines as well as master marketer Weider guiding, pulling the strings as to how to most effectively construct and market this film, as it was in their mutual interest to do so.

The Whitney exhibition for example, afforded excellent publicity to an upper-echelon NY crowd. Butler and Gaine's idea, not Arnold's.

We'll never know behind the scenes why other smarter BBs weren't interviewed, but i suspect it was equal parts desire to make it a star vehicle and also the fact that it clearly became a Weider movie, unlike the book, thus other worthwhile BBs were excluded.

[pumpster]

u dont like arnold much, huh. imo, he's portrated as smart, anything-to-win, charismatic, easy to get along with, and true to his friends. a dork, hardly. he was the top bber in the world for years in 75, no wonder the guy is confident. he knew what it took to win, and to sell videos.

from what i remember of pumping iron, it's played out to make it a good guy/bad guy/underdog type film. as we know, some of the comments were made up to help it sell. its hardly 100% truthful, so i wouldnt take everything u see as fact.

i dont blame arnold for turning his charm on and off when he needs to. lets face it, no one is nice/friendly all the time and to everyone. we all have good and bad days, as lets face it... most of the guys act differently around women (i.e. turn charms on). why would arnold be any different, except he did it when it helps his reputation and/or gaining money. but i firmly believe that the guy has a very good heart. just look at the charity work he's done with the special olympics, and what his costars have said of him in the various movies he's done.

You're funny...the guy doesn't worship Arnold's nutz the way you do therefore he doesn't like him LOL

FYI the charity work is de rigeur for celebs, doesn't necessarily indicate anything.

As far as "acting differently around women" nice try, most other dudes weren't busy groping, including Robby Robinson's wife/girlfriend's tits right in the middle of Gold's LOL