Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: no one on April 07, 2014, 09:31:31 PM
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so when im not making a fool of people on here i actually do help a lot of people thru pm. i get asked a lot for my thoughts on these 3 things. so im going to put them all down here. hopefully it can help someone better themselves.
so, i get asked a lot what do you recommend for me to do regarding..., or what should i take, how many grams of carbs should i eat. all that.
my thoughts revolve around and pertain to building a balanced physique that holds quality muscle that can be maintained well into your 40's. why 40's? cause if you truly love doing this your going to be doing this for a long time. a physique that is respectably bigger than most guys who train, but still isnt so big that you are shunned by the general public. something that someone would look at and say 'shit, id like to look like that one day'. something admirable. not a sideshow.
im not saying that being a bber isnt cool- to each their own. i think you can achieve any look that you want your body to have. but for me, as i got older i realised all that being that big does is screams insecurity issues and attract guys. thats it. why the fuck would i want that?
so, how do you build the perfect physique- perfect for yourself- not perfect for what others thinks is perfect? cause at the end of the day this should be about you, not wanting to build something for someone else.
HOW TALL ARE YOU?
the first thing is you have to take your height into consideration. typically the taller you are, the more lean tissue you are going to have to hold to look feasibly respectable. for me at my height- 6'2, id say the upper limit of what i would find balanced without going over board would be 230. anymore than that and your getting 'too big'. i dont want to be 'too big' anymore. thats 230 and 5-6%. i'll get to bodyfat next. so, if your a short guy, you'll have to be conscious of how big your getting, cause you'll honestly hit 'that point' a lot sooner than us tall guys. its a bitch being tall. what can i say. ya its great in that being tall = respect, but its very hard to fill out a tall frame properly.
DONT GET FAT
typically you'll never want to get over 8% bf. why? exactly- what the fuck for? it serves no purpose whatsoever and makes the fat harder to get off later on. i have found the leaner i am, the more energy i have, the more efficient i become a burning cals, the better i feel mentally and physically. i came to realise that for myself, that overeating is a depressant- it actually causes a chemical reaction in me whos symptoms are eerily similar to depression. i become withdrawn, lazy, unmotivated, listless- all kinds of downside. thats just not cool. if you find you go thru swings in your mood, take a closer look at your diet, specifically your cal and sugar intake the day before. i can almost guarantee you'll find a direct correlation. so stay lean. theres no reason to get fat. which leads to my next thing- eating big to get big.
EAT BIG TO GET BIG
this is one thing i wish would die a slow painful fucking death- you have to eat big to get big. really? what the fuck for? what builds lean tissue? carbs? fats? no- protein. what are carbs and fats then. they are energy sources. so, why the fuck would anyone take in more fats or carbs than they need to meet their energy requirements? oh cause you need to eat big to get big? really. no you eat big to get fat. take in enough protein to keep your body repairing and growing and enough fats and carbs to give you the energy you need to get thru your day. YOU DO NOT NEED A CALORIE SURPLUS TO CREATE LEAN TISSUE. you can create tissue in a deficit. so why the fuck would you think you need to eat big to get big. stimulus+anabolics+ample protein= growth. end of fucking story.
TRAINING
i've done it all. what works for me is strictly instinctual training sessions. i know what im going to train that day, i dont know the exercises the rep ranges the number of sets it all goes by feel. the one constant is that i always train to failure. i always use as much weight as i can properly managed to get a good rep range in, and i always listen to my body- if im not feeling a particular exercise that day WHY THE FUCK WOULD I DO IT- so i can feel my joints work? if you cant feel what your doing, drop the weight, or find a different exercise. leave the ego at home. nobody cares what your lifting bro, and if they do they are a pimply faced kid of 17. who gives a fuck what he thinks.
i never rest between sets. what i have come to find interestingly enough is that my pace slows down as my muscle fatigues, so by the end of my workout when i find myself sitting on the bench getting ready for my next set, its time to pack it in. im tired and my muscle is fried. why train a fried muscle? get in and get out. my workouts dont last longer than 30min typically. why only 30 min? cause i hit my whole body 3 times in 8 days. i dont need to be in the gym for an hour.in fact given the way i train its counterproductive. stimulate growth, dont smash it cause your going to be hitting it again in 48 hrs.
i believe in frequency over heavier weights. some guys will pound the fuck out of that muscle group with big weight, then not train it for a week. i'll run the pump, train it 3 times in a week. thats 3 times your initiating growth. works for me. if your not getting the gains you expect to get get off your ass and start hitting everything every 48 hrs. yes your going to be sore. your body will adapt. its a remarkable mechanism. with that adaptation comes growth. look at people who perform repetitive movements every day on a job that requires the use of a particular muscle group. its developed way more than the rest of their body. so much for over training.
ANABOLICS
if you can afford gh use it. you wont need more than 4-5 iu a day. i like hyges. imo they are the best of the chinese generics. the truth of it is, the more you use, the bigger you'll get. i dont believe in being a kamikaze. i dont believe in using big gram cycles. why? whats going to happen when you go off if you havent built up to that dosage? not even go off, what going to happen when you drop the dose to a bridge? welcome to shrinksville, population : you. how do you avoid this- easy. use only enough to keep your body growing. thats it. the slower the gains, the more quality they are. this is a marathon not a sprint. when do you think is going to happen to boston lloyd when he goes off? hes going to deflate like a popped balloon. you want that? i dont. its godamn hard to lose lean tissue when you use an intelligent approach to anabolics usage when you need to go off. i have been on 200mg of enanthate e4-5d since the last week of dec. thats 3.5 months almost- all i have lost is the look the anabolics gave me- the fullness and density. i still weigh the exact same. when you put it one slow, it'll come off slow. its really that simple.
FIND YOUR FAVOURITES
what to use and how much? well, i like to use a year round base of test and i dont go over 300mg a week. my ceiling is around 750mg. to be honest this summer i'll prolly not go above 400mg a week and not use tren. i have used some nosebleed numbers in my day. i didnt look any better. but i was fucking big. thats not the look i want, so i drop the dose. its about using the dose you need for the look you want, not a wholesale shotgunning of mega doses and hoping it all works out in the end. in fact the less anabolics i use, more responsibly the better i look. i used to run 2g all year. fuck i wish i knew then what i know now. as for compunds im a huge fan of long estered versions of compounds like masteron and tren- i find they give a better density to the cell than the faster esters. i like masteron in the summer as it will keep you dry as long as your carbs and sodium are in check. tren for the obvious reasons. i love var. and the only other anabolic id recommend is npp. those are my core anabolics. the trick is to find those that you respond best to and cycle them in depending on the look you want to achieve. i have found that i react better some some compounds more than others- there is def not a level playing feild when it comes to the bodies utilisation of all compounds. find those that work for you. i dont use anti es to stay dry- they dry my joints out and hamper my recovery.
i think thats about it. if i havent mentioned it, its not worth mentioning -insulin for example- in my day i used a ton of it. i think you'll look better without it.
im not saying this a be all/end all definitive guide for everyone to follow. im saying this is what works for me.
any questions fire away.
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Great post, thanks for sharing, looking forward to an excellent thread.
What are your thoughts on protein powder? Can a good quality whey powder be substituted for meat/fish/eggs?
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Great post, thanks for sharing, looking forward to an excellent thread.
What are your thoughts on protein powder? Can a good quality whey powder be substituted for meat/fish/eggs?
fuck ya.
protein is protein- you think the body says - 'fuck this isnt steak', and not utilise it the same?
whole foods for satiation, other than that i love protein powders, esp in my coffee instaed of cream and sugar.
edit: also im a huge fats / protein guy. not so much with the carbs.
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fuck ya.
protein is protein- you think the body says - 'fuck this isnt steak', and not utilise it the same?
whole foods for satiation, other than that i love protein powders, esp in my coffee instaed of cream and sugar.
Cool that's what I suspected but you'll always get a couple of traditionalists who swear it's not as good as "the real thing" ::) even though they can never say why that would be.
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Great post as always by No One
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Cool that's what I suspected but you'll always get a couple of traditionalists who swear it's not as good as "the real thing" ::) even though they can never say why that would be.
ya, just like 'they' say you need to eat your protein and carbs to get the benefit of the 'anabolic window'- so what happens if i dont eat for an hour after my session, or even that day- my body going to say when i reintroduce food, 'well, he didnt quite make the window, i cant really use this now'?
the funny thing about common sense is that it isnt all that common, esp in bodybuilding.
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Great post as always by No One
ah thanks brother. just hope someone can take away from it.
wish i had posts like this to read when i was 20.
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Your methods explain why you aren't a lot bigger. No one trains by instinct. That isn't giving anyone good information.
Most young guys can't grow because they don't eat enough calories. So your advice to hard gainers sucks. These guys have to force feed themselves.
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No One, what kind of car is that? Looks pretty cool.
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Your methods explain why you aren't a lot bigger. No one trains by instinct. That isn't giving anyone good information.
Most young guys can't grow because they don't eat enough calories. So your advice to hard gainers sucks. These guys have to force feed themselves.
are you retarded?
read my post bozo- i said this is what works for me. im not trying to give anyone 'good information'. if someone can take away from this and apply it and have it work thats great. im not trying to reinvent the wheel here.
the is no one size fits all program, gramps. at the end of the day, you have to find what works for you.
like how dense can you be. lol
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No One, what kind of car is that? Looks pretty cool.
my buddies murcie.
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great post no one.
few things
how do you think your usage of insulin and 2g (or maybe more?) year round helped/benefited you to be at this level?
do you honestly think that using just under 500mg of test and a bit of (gh 4-5 iu) some npp and some tren here an there will get an average guy lets say 6"2 / 180 to 230 pounds? Please be very honest here....
what do you think or what was the major "game changer" in getting size? or like you said it's all together (a marathon?).
I'm 6"6 and currently at 250 ~ 10% bf... and it's very very hard to gain lean tissue... I have been on gh few times the famous thanktropins back in the day and did some average cycles reaching 700 test and 900 eq with 400 deca
but 250 seems my dead end and yes i can throw in orals and increase anabolics and gh... but im not even close to your look... maybe because im 29yo and gym experience is only 3-4 years.
i know it could be personal thing and some people respond better some worse... but honestly if i will stick to just under 1g... i think ill simply stop growing ..
thanks, and great post once again
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2 questions for you?
1) No one, what is your opinion of the man featured in the picture below?
2) Can you build huge biceps with this machine?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=394408.0;attach=428409;image)
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great post no one.
few things
how do you think your usage of insulin and 2g (or maybe more?) year round helped/benefited you to be at this level?
do you honestly think that using just under 500mg of test and a bit of (gh 4-5 iu) some npp and some tren here an there will get an average guy lets say 6"2 / 180 to 230 pounds? Please be very honest here....
what do you think or what was the major "game changer" in getting size? or like you said it's all together (a marathon?).
I'm 6"6 and currently at 250 ~ 10% bf... and it's very very hard to gain lean tissue... I have been on gh few times the famous thanktropins back in the day and did some average cycles reaching 700 test and 900 eq with 400 deca
but 250 seems my dead end and yes i can throw in orals and increase anabolics and gh... but im not even lose to your look... maybe because im 29yo and gym experience is only 3-4 years.
i know it could be personal thing and some people respond better some worse... but honestly if i will stick to just under 1g... i think ill simply stop growing ..
thanks, and great post once again
ah some great questions here.
ya for sure the 2g runs definitely played a role in the base i have- to a point. for the past year i have been on less than 750mg a week and 3 months of that is 200mg a week basically. what the 2g did was give me a lot more density and fullness. as that dose drops, so does the look. but in all honesty i attribute 'this' to being consistent for over 20 years with my training and anabolics usage. insulin plays no part in the way i look now.
in my case i couldnt have got to 230 at 5-6% on 500mg of test and some gh. no way. i dont have the response. some guys might be able to. im not one of them. but i have found you can maintain the tissue you accumulated over time on a fraction of the dose it took to build if you put it on slowly enough.
for me the game changer is consistency and gh. gh potentiates anabolics somehow i have noticed. you can use way less mgs with a bit of gh and make the same gains as what you would if you ran bigger mg totals without the gh. gh gives a look that anabolics alone simply cannot.
dude, id be embarrassed to post a pic of myself after 3 years of training- this is 7 TIMES THAT. thats a lot of time in bro. be patient. keep doing what your doing. if your not making gains on what your using, then bump it up until you start to gain again. you'd be amazed at what an increase of just 300mg a week will do over time. you gotta remember bro IF you can put on 5 lbs of lean tissue a year you are doing very very well. that being said you might have to make the commitment to stay on year round. cycling is like renting muscle.
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2 questions for you?
1) No one, what is your opinion of the man featured in the picture below?
2) Can you build huge biceps with this machine?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=394408.0;attach=428409;image)
1) i think he thinks he knows a lot more than everyone else. hes had his time and hes trying to be relevant. its not working out so well for him.
2) no
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are you retarded?
read my post bozo- i said this is what works for me. im not trying to give anyone 'good information'. if someone can take away from this and apply it and have it work thats great. im not trying to reinvent the wheel here.
the is no one size fits all program, gramps. at the end of the day, you have to find what works for you.
like how dense can you be. lol
You are demonstrating that musclemen are not that bright. All brawn. Anyway, don't give me your 'instinctive' training program 'works for you'. How on earth can anyone deduce anything whatever from what you wrote?
First we have the nonsense that free weights are better than machines and now all programs are okay 'if they work for you'. That is a totally empty method and has zero information of value.
Since you are repeating what you read in the muscle magazines you figure you have state of the art information. I am afraid you are not an expert in hypertrophy. Few people on Getbig are.
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ah some great questions here.
ya for sure the 2g runs definitely played a role in the base i have- to a point. for the past year i have been on less than 750mg a week and 3 months of that is 200mg a week basically. what the 2g did was give me a lot more density and fullness. as that dose drops, so does the look. but in all honesty i attribute 'this' to being consistent for over 20 years with my training and anabolics usage. insulin plays no part in the way i look now.
in my case i couldnt have got to 230 at 5-6% on 500mg of test and some gh. no way. i dont have the response. some guys might be able to. im not one of them. but i have found you can maintain the tissue you accumulated over time on a fraction of the dose it took to build if you put it on slowly enough.
for me the game changer is consistency and gh. gh potentiates anabolics somehow i have noticed. you can use way less mgs with a bit of gh and make the same gains as what you would if you ran bigger mg totals without the gh. gh gives a look that anabolics alone simply cannot.
dude, id be embarrassed to post a pic of myself after 3 years of training- this is 7 TIMES THAT. thats a lot of time in bro. be patient. keep doing what your doing. if your not making gains on what your using, then bump it up until you start to gain again. you'd be amazed at what an increase of just 300mg a week will do over time. you gotta remember bro IF you can put on 5 lbs of lean tissue a year you are doing very very well. that being said you might have to make the commitment to stay on year round. cycling is like renting muscle.
Thanks, you put it very clearly and this matches to exactly what I'm thinking or been looking for
Very helpful
Cheers!
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good post no one
Following your other thread ;D
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Have you ever been hired(this means payed for your "thoughts") by any ifbb pros or top level npc competitors? Nope. How about any level amateur who can vouch for you? NOPE
Homo pool boy thinks his thoughts mean more than doo doo. But they don't.
You're a a self-confessed no one who wants nothing more than to look good by the pool. Know your role no one. You're a no one and always will be a no one.
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my 'thoughts' are not aimed at or for hardcore bbers.
they are for guys who want to look good year round, carry a respectable amount of muscle and hit hot broads.
since your probably a virgin none of this will apply to you.
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so when im not making a fool of people on here i actually do help a lot of people thru pm. i get asked a lot for my thoughts on these 3 things. so im going to put them all down here. hopefully it can help someone better themselves.
so, i get asked a lot what do you recommend for me to do regarding..., or what should i take, how many grams of carbs should i eat. all that.
my thoughts revolve around and pertain to building a balanced physique that holds quality muscle that can be maintained well into your 40's. why 40's? cause if you truly love doing this your going to be doing this for a long time. a physique that is respectably bigger than most guys who train, but still isnt so big that you are shunned by the general public. something that someone would look at and say 'shit, id like to look like that one day'. something admirable. not a sideshow.
im not saying that being a bber isnt cool- to each their own. i think you can achieve any look that you want your body to have. but for me, as i got older i realised all that being that big does is screams insecurity issues and attract guys. thats it. why the fuck would i want that?
so, how do you build the perfect physique- perfect for yourself- not perfect for what others thinks is perfect? cause at the end of the day this should be about you, not wanting to build something for someone else.
HOW TALL ARE YOU?
the first thing is you have to take your height into consideration. typically the taller you are, the more lean tissue you are going to have to hold to look feasibly respectable. for me at my height- 6'2, id say the upper limit of what i would find balanced without going over board would be 230. anymore than that and your getting 'too big'. i dont want to be 'too big' anymore. thats 230 and 5-6%. i'll get to bodyfat next. so, if your a short guy, you'll have to be conscious of how big your getting, cause you'll honestly hit 'that point' a lot sooner than us tall guys. its a bitch being tall. what can i say. ya its great in that being tall = respect, but its very hard to fill out a tall frame properly.
DONT GET FAT
typically you'll never want to get over 8% bf. why? exactly- what the fuck for? it serves no purpose whatsoever and makes the fat harder to get off later on. i have found the leaner i am, the more energy i have, the more efficient i become a burning cals, the better i feel mentally and physically. i came to realise that for myself, that overeating is a depressant- it actually causes a chemical reaction in me whos symptoms are eerily similar to depression. i become withdrawn, lazy, unmotivated, listless- all kinds of downside. thats just not cool. if you find you go thru swings in your mood, take a closer look at your diet, specifically your cal and sugar intake the day before. i can almost guarantee you'll find a direct correlation. so stay lean. theres no reason to get fat. which leads to my next thing- eating big to get big.
EAT BIG TO GET BIG
this is one thing i wish would die a slow painful fucking death- you have to eat big to get big. really? what the fuck for? what builds lean tissue? carbs? fats? no- protein. what are carbs and fats then. they are energy sources. so, why the fuck would anyone take in more fats or carbs than they need to meet their energy requirements? oh cause you need to eat big to get big? really. no you eat big to get fat. take in enough protein to keep your body repairing and growing and enough fats and carbs to give you the energy you need to get thru your day. YOU DO NOT NEED A CALORIE SURPLUS TO CREATE LEAN TISSUE. you can create tissue in a deficit. so why the fuck would you think you need to eat big to get big. stimulus+anabolics+ample protein= growth. end of fucking story.
TRAINING
i've done it all. what works for me is strictly instinctual training sessions. i know what im going to train that day, i dont know the exercises the rep ranges the number of sets it all goes by feel. the one constant is that i always train to failure. i always use as much weight as i can properly managed to get a good rep range in, and i always listen to my body- if im not feeling a particular exercise that day WHY THE FUCK WOULD I DO IT- so i can feel my joints work? if you cant feel what your doing, drop the weight, or find a different exercise. leave the ego at home. nobody cares what your lifting bro, and if they do they are a pimply faced kid of 17. who gives a fuck what he thinks.
i never rest between sets. what i have come to find interestingly enough is that my pace slows down as my muscle fatigues, so by the end of my workout when i find myself sitting on the bench getting ready for my next set, its time to pack it in. im tired and my muscle is fried. why train a fried muscle? get in and get out. my workouts dont last longer than 30min typically. why only 30 min? cause i hit my whole body 3 times in 8 days. i dont need to be in the gym for an hour.in fact given the way i train its counterproductive. stimulate growth, dont smash it cause your going to be hitting it again in 48 hrs.
i believe in frequency over heavier weights. some guys will pound the fuck out of that muscle group with big weight, then not train it for a week. i'll run the pump, train it 3 times in a week. thats 3 times your initiating growth. works for me. if your not getting the gains you expect to get get off your ass and start hitting everything every 48 hrs. yes your going to be sore. your body will adapt. its a remarkable mechanism. with that adaptation comes growth. look at people who perform repetitive movements every day on a job that requires the use of a particular muscle group. its developed way more than the rest of their body. so much for over training.
ANABOLICS
if you can afford gh use it. you wont need more than 4-5 iu a day. i like hyges. imo they are the best of the chinese generics. the truth of it is, the more you use, the bigger you'll get. i dont believe in being a kamikaze. i dont believe in using big gram cycles. why? whats going to happen when you go off if you havent built up to that dosage? not even go off, what going to happen when you drop the dose to a bridge? welcome to shrinksville, population : you. how do you avoid this- easy. use only enough to keep your body growing. thats it. the slower the gains, the more quality they are. this is a marathon not a sprint. when do you think is going to happen to boston lloyd when he goes off? hes going to deflate like a popped balloon. you want that? i dont. its godamn hard to lose lean tissue when you use an intelligent approach to anabolics usage when you need to go off. i have been on 200mg of enanthate e4-5d since the last week of dec. thats 3.5 months almost- all i have lost is the look the anabolics gave me- the fullness and density. i still weigh the exact same. when you put it one slow, it'll come off slow. its really that simple.
FIND YOUR FAVOURITES
what to use and how much? well, i like to use a year round base of test and i dont go over 300mg a week. my ceiling is around 750mg. to be honest this summer i'll prolly not go above 400mg a week and not use tren. i have used some nosebleed numbers in my day. i didnt look any better. but i was fucking big. thats not the look i want, so i drop the dose. its about using the dose you need for the look you want, not a wholesale shotgunning of mega doses and hoping it all works out in the end. in fact the less anabolics i use, more responsibly the better i look. i used to run 2g all year. fuck i wish i knew then what i know now. as for compunds im a huge fan of long estered versions of compounds like masteron and tren- i find they give a better density to the cell than the faster esters. i like masteron in the summer as it will keep you dry as long as your carbs and sodium are in check. tren for the obvious reasons. i love var. and the only other anabolic id recommend is npp. those are my core anabolics. the trick is to find those that you respond best to and cycle them in depending on the look you want to achieve. i have found that i react better some some compounds more than others- there is def not a level playing feild when it comes to the bodies utilisation of all compounds. find those that work for you. i dont use anti es to stay dry- they dry my joints out and hamper my recovery.
i think thats about it. if i havent mentioned it, its not worth mentioning -insulin for example- in my day i used a ton of it. i think you'll look better without it.
im not saying this a be all/end all definitive guide for everyone to follow. im saying this is what works for me.
any questions fire away.
I enjoyed reading this, your everyday guy/gym rat sharing what works for him to try to help people. I find more good body builders like this than not. The hate by a few in this thread is out of line IMO
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Let's see if I got the formula. Instinctive training as long as it works for you. Keep lean. Then decades of drugs to look good at the beach.
This is a recipe for lunacy.
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Feel bad for this punk, must have took him 5 hours to write all this with the help from a high school tutor and the complete "Hooked On Phonics" set from 1983.
Just shows that in five years this addict will move on to heroin and will be toothless, standing on the corner, spitting on windshields to get a couple dollars. God this guy is delayed but not in the same way as Genova.
STAY POSITIVE!!!!!!
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Let's see if I got the formula. Instinctive training as long as it works for you. Keep lean. Then decades of drugs to look good at the beach.
This is a recipe for lunacy.
old man got a point
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Let's see if I got the formula. Instinctive training as long as it works for you. Keep lean. Then decades of drugs to look good at the beach.
This is a recipe for lunacy.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kUXK6azldF0/UE5YveZFI7I/AAAAAAAACy8/xBXs1gccHFA/s1600/crazy-laughter.jpg)
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Feel bad for this punk, must have took him 5 hours to write all this with the help from a high school tutor and the complete "Hooked On Phonics" set from 1983.
Just shows that in five years this addict will move on to heroin and will be toothless, standing on the corner, spitting on windshields to get a couple dollars. God this guy is delayed but not in the same way as Genova.
STAY POSITIVE!!!!!!
(http://i.imgur.com/mHM3DMk.gif)
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2 questions for you?
1) No one, what is your opinion of the man featured in the picture below?
2) Can you build huge biceps with this machine?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=394408.0;attach=428409;image)
Ahahalaololol i fucking loose it everytime i see this pic.
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What this moron doesn't get is that there are thousands of Afro-Americans that look like this on basketball courts across the US and Canada and all they do is "ball" and eat cheetos and orange drink.
ECTOMORPHSPEED!!!!!!
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This is probably the best advice and post on getbig so far.
Thank you for taking your time and explaining everything so even I can understand it.
Pict. Looking as detailed and sharp as the car behind you! 8) 8)
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I have daily fights with a friend of mine about the "eat big to be big" mentality. He steadfastly maintains that even while we are both on low-dose gear, it is "a simple question of thermodynamics" about needing to be in a caloric surplus to grow.
I wish to add lean tissue slowly ("at your dose, slow is what you're going to get!" -- Uncle Junior) and get leaner overall. I DON'T want to "bulk" and then cut. At my height, 6'3", I can carry 240 without looking fat in clothes, but I look like absolute waterlogged shit with my shirt off. Not going to do it. I am 210 and probably about 12% now as a guess.
As an aside, after a whopping 3 whole weeks on gear, it seems to want to lean out lean areas and appears to be adding some blur to the midsection. My not-so-great abs are looking less great. I am guessing it is all bloof.
My diet is about 90% good. I am a mostly paleo guy that watches carbs, has cut sugar, but does take in animal fats with meats.
Thanks for the advice, because it appears that being on gear has changed a lot about how I should think about this stuff, and I am a little confused.
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ya, just like 'they' say you need to eat your protein and carbs to get the benefit of the 'anabolic window'- so what happens if i dont eat for an hour after my session, or even that day- my body going to say when i reintroduce food, 'well, he didnt quite make the window, i cant really use this now'?
the funny thing about common sense is that it isnt all that common, esp in bodybuilding.
You don't think the metabolism slows down if you don't eat for 24hrs? or Compare metabolic rate right after a workout vs few hours after
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YOU DO NOT NEED A CALORIE SURPLUS TO CREATE LEAN TISSUE
^ I think this is huge. So many day you can't lose fat and gain muscle but I believe it is possible and I have done it myself. I guess it would be called a "recomp".
Recently I have been training much lower weights and higher reps and noticed good gains in a short time. I feel that heavy weight is overrated although it can be fun lifting big weight. But in our 30s it's time to train smarter I feel.
In the past you have talked about 24hr + fasting. I don't believe metabolism is slowed down in that little time. I read a study cited in an article it takes about 70-90 hrs of fasting to slow metabolism.
No one, can you speak a fee words on naturals? I imagine things are similar but obviously they will be smaller and work harder for cuts?
Thank you, nice post.
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Great post my brother,so great in fact,it sounds like I wrote it myself! ;)
I agree on all counts and have been saying almost the same things for years now.
This should be sent to MD or some other mag,that`s how well written and vital it is......I say vital,because it disspells tons of the myths surrounding gear and diet as well as training,and would save a shit load of people lots of time otherwise wasted.
Again,great stuff and awesome pic.
NO HOMO
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IF POSSIBLE, CAN WE KEEP THIS THREAD FOR ACTUAL LIFTERS THAT ARE SEEKING INFO?
TAKE PERSONAL ATTACKS TO ONE OF THE OTHER 5000 STUPID-ASS THREADS ON G&O.
THANKS AND NO HOMO.
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Good read, used yours and Gal's advice of starting slow - I'm yet to go above 500mg but I've been tempted to see what a gram of test feels like both looks and sides wise.
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Great post my brother,so great in fact,it sounds like I wrote it myself! ;)
I agree on all counts and have been saying almost the same things for years now.
This should be sent to MD or some other mag,that`s how well written and vital it is......I say vital,because it disspells tons of the myths surrounding gear and diet as well as training.
Again,great stuff and awesome pic.
NO HOMO
That's crazy! I thought it should be sent to MD or they should hire no one too.
Very well written, although the supplement companies pushing the anabolic window eat every 3 hrs may not like it.
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That's crazy! I thought it should be sent to MD or they should hire no one too.
Very well written, although the supplement companies pushing the anabolic window eat every 3 hrs may not like it.
That`s the thing bro,the supplement companies whos advertisements fund the mags would never want the truth to get out. :(
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I have daily fights with a friend of mine about the "eat big to be big" mentality. He steadfastly maintains that even while we are both on low-dose gear, it is "a simple question of thermodynamics" about needing to be in a caloric surplus to grow.
Your friend is correct if the goal is simply to gain weight: cannot be done without an energy surplus, but that is not really the question.
Another perspective would be if you train and also eat a surplus then it should be impossible to not build some muscle, although you will of course build fat too.
I have never run across anything that has convinced me it's impossible to build muscle on an energy deficit.
Actually our understanding scientifically of what happens to food after we eat it is quite limited.
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The point is you only need to eat slightly above maintenance levels to ensure you gain muscle providing you take in enough protein/amino acids.
Why eat 3 or 4,000 cals above your BMR?
All you are going to get is very fat.
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The point is you only need to eat slightly above maintenance levels to ensure you gain muscle providing you take in enough protein/amino acids.
Why eat 3 or 4,000 cals above your BMR?
All you are going to get is very fat.
Especially when you get older and your metabolism starts to slow down.
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Especially when you get older and your metabolism starts to slow down.
I think its applicable to all ages, anything over and above your BMR is going to be stored as fat.
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I don't know if I buy into the whole "metabolism "slows down" as you age" thing.
Most of the things we think are inevitable changes with age are likely due just as much (if not more so) to activity level.
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Calories do not build muscle,protein does.
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I don't know if I buy into the whole "metabolism "slows down" as you age" thing.
Most of the things we think are inevitable changes with age are likely due just as much (if not more so) to activity level.
Most people will tell you "my metabolism has slowed down since I got older"
But has it really?
Do you do the same things as you did when you were younger, are you as active day in day out.
I have to watch what I eat a bit more now than when I was 21 and lifting 3 times a week, training/running three times a week and playing a game a week of Rugby and going out clubbing until 3am.
Has my metabolism slowed or have I become a bit more sedentary?
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Calories do not build muscle,protein does.
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Thank you sir! :P
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kUXK6azldF0/UE5YveZFI7I/AAAAAAAACy8/xBXs1gccHFA/s1600/crazy-laughter.jpg)
Great gif... too bad you can't hear him laughing.
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I think its applicable to all ages, anything over and above your BMR is going to be stored as fat.
True, I was trying to say that it's harder to lose the weight you gain as you get older.
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True, I was trying to say that it's harder to lose the weight you gain as you get older.
I have found that this time around dieting to compete it took me longer to get in shape than previously back in 96.
I put it down to age and metabolism but looking at it realistically, I was always 10lbs over my show weight year round and was out clubbing every weekend dancing all night until 7am.
I dont do either of those now, if I did would I lose the weight faster?
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Can you post a picture when you are completely off drugs for a year and then give training advice?
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Can you post a picture when you are completely off drugs for a year and then give training advice?
Me?
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Calories do not build muscle,protein does.
I wish someone told me this earlier.
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Can you post a picture when you are completely off drugs for a year and then give training advice?
Me?
-
I have found that this time around dieting to compete it took me longer to get in shape than previously back in 96.
I put it down to age and metabolism but looking at it realistically, I was always 10lbs over my show weight year round and was out clubbing every weekend dancing all night until 7am.
I dont do either of those now, if I did would I lose the weight faster?
Ha, at our ages now I think our workouts would suffer. the clubbing would help with the weight loss, all cardio and no eating ;D
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The point is you only need to eat slightly above maintenance levels to ensure you gain muscle providing you take in enough protein/amino acids.
Why eat 3 or 4,000 cals above your BMR?
All you are going to get is very fat.
My maintenance appears to be in the 2300-2500 range. I was thinking about staying in the 2500-2800 range. I don't think I could eat 4000 clean calories if somebody had a gun to my head.
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I dont agree with no one sissy light weight 30 min workout, train hard and heavy in the gym for 6 to 8 reps, rest between sets and go heavy again and go 15 to 20 reps for lower body and do sprints for cardio,that is the way to build muscle unless you want to look like a swimmer.
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Great gif... too bad you can't hear him laughing.
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I dont agree with no one sissy light weight 30 min workout, train hard and heavy in the gym for 6 to 8 reps, rest between sets and go heavy again and go 15 to 20 reps for lower body and do sprints for cardio,that is the way to build muscle unless you want to look like a swimmer.
Pics of your non-swimmer physique?
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Solid post. I always get a ton of value from no one's insights.
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I wish someone told me this earlier.
I know you`re busting balls here but I`ve seen more people on this board insist that you must have a calorie surplus to build muscle.
You`ll gain weight obviously,but not all of it will be muscle.
Did you know this? ;D
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Pics of your non-swimmer physique?
I already post a of me looking jacked in another thread you can go search for it if you want to see.
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I dont agree with no one sissy light weight 30 min workout, train hard and heavy in the gym for 6 to 8 reps, rest between sets and go heavy again and go 15 to 20 reps for lower body and do sprints for cardio,that is the way to build muscle unless you want to look like a swimmer.
(http://www.dennisrogers.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Travis-Bicep-Pose.jpg)
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I already post a of me looking jacked in another thread you can go search for it if you want to see.
was it the colour enhance blurry one that looked like it was taken in the 80s?
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You don't think the metabolism slows down if you don't eat for 24hrs? or Compare metabolic rate right after a workout vs few hours after
i was talking about protein absorption and the myth of the anabolic window. you come along with 'you dont think metabolism slows down etc etc'
what in the fuck does protein absorption have to do with metabolism.
'nice day, eh bob?'
'ya, but it rained in china yesterday'
the fuck does that have to do with what im talking about.
YOU DO NOT NEED A CALORIE SURPLUS TO CREATE LEAN TISSUE
^ I think this is huge. So many day you can't lose fat and gain muscle but I believe it is possible and I have done it myself. I guess it would be called a "recomp".
Recently I have been training much lower weights and higher reps and noticed good gains in a short time. I feel that heavy weight is overrated although it can be fun lifting big weight. But in our 30s it's time to train smarter I feel.
In the past you have talked about 24hr + fasting. I don't believe metabolism is slowed down in that little time. I read a study cited in an article it takes about 70-90 hrs of fasting to slow metabolism.
No one, can you speak a fee words on naturals? I imagine things are similar but obviously they will be smaller and work harder for cuts?
Thank you, nice post.
a lot of good points here. nothing wrong with training heavy bro. i love training heavy. controlled and heavy. for me theres nothing like doing super slow reps on a flat bench with say 315. thats when i know my strength is 'there' when i start upping the dose- typically i can do the reps but once i up the dose abt 3 weeks later my movements become very very controlled and theres a good feeling of power there.
most of my sessions i start out 'strong' like that, and as they progress i typically then go higher reps lower weight and run the pump.
i love fasting. i find i can get away with a sloppy diet and stay relatively in check thru fasting and training fasted. i also like only eating once a day. twice at the most.
true nattys got my utmost respect. i cant give my experiences as a natty as i havent been on in a very long time. what i did notice for myself was that as a natty is be 100% dedicated all the time. no missing meals. getting your rest. anabolics make you bionic. didnt sleep good last night? no big deal, workout is going to get smashed anyway. missed a meal yesterday? no big deal workout going to get smashed anyway. as a natty you dont get your rest and miss meals, your going to suffer. you have to be a very dedicated dude to be natty your whole life, esp knowing once you hit your genetic threshold the best your going to do is maintain that present tissue.
Good read, used yours and Gal's advice of starting slow - I'm yet to go above 500mg but I've been tempted to see what a gram of test feels like both looks and sides wise.
why go to 1g. why not try 750 first?
no im not being that old school guy who gives out stock advise like this. even as developed as i am if i increase my dose as little as that i feel it in my strength and it reflects in my fullness. if i take as little as 40mg of var on what im taking now i'll see changes in 3 days. because i have the size and experience to notice even the smallest changes. you might not notice them, but you are changing.
Can you post a picture when you are completely off drugs for a year and then give training advice?
a) im not giving out 'training advise' here. im saying what works for me.
b) the fuck would i want to go off for a year for? low dose anabolics greatly enhance my life for the better- all aspects of it.
Most people will tell you "my metabolism has slowed down since I got older"
But has it really?
Do you do the same things as you did when you were younger, are you as active day in day out.
I have to watch what I eat a bit more now than when I was 21 and lifting 3 times a week, training/running three times a week and playing a game a week of Rugby and going out clubbing until 3am.
Has my metabolism slowed or have I become a bit more sedentary?
spectacular.
i played basketball last night for the first time since i was in my 20's. i got home i felt like i got hit by a bus. everything was sore. i was thinking to myself, why the fuck cant i run and jump and run like that anymore- i used to do it everyday, for hours on end. i must be getting old.
no, im not getting old, i got off the couch for the first time in 20 years and tried to do what i used to do back in the day, of course im going to be sore. will i be this sore in a month? nope. why? the body adapts.
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was it the colour enhance blurry one that looked like it was taken in the 80s?
hahaha no this is your homework for today investigate the threads and find my picture.
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hahaha no this is your homework for today investigate the threads and find my picture.
I think it got nuked in the "Flex only takes 1300mgs thread".
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so when im not making a fool of people on here i actually do help a lot of people thru pm. i get asked a lot for my thoughts on these 3 things. so im going to put them all down here. hopefully it can help someone better themselves.
so, i get asked a lot what do you recommend for me to do regarding..., or what should i take, how many grams of carbs should i eat. all that.
my thoughts revolve around and pertain to building a balanced physique that holds quality muscle that can be maintained well into your 40's. why 40's? cause if you truly love doing this your going to be doing this for a long time. a physique that is respectably bigger than most guys who train, but still isnt so big that you are shunned by the general public. something that someone would look at and say 'shit, id like to look like that one day'. something admirable. not a sideshow.
im not saying that being a bber isnt cool- to each their own. i think you can achieve any look that you want your body to have. but for me, as i got older i realised all that being that big does is screams insecurity issues and attract guys. thats it. why the fuck would i want that?
so, how do you build the perfect physique- perfect for yourself- not perfect for what others thinks is perfect? cause at the end of the day this should be about you, not wanting to build something for someone else.
HOW TALL ARE YOU?
the first thing is you have to take your height into consideration. typically the taller you are, the more lean tissue you are going to have to hold to look feasibly respectable. for me at my height- 6'2, id say the upper limit of what i would find balanced without going over board would be 230. anymore than that and your getting 'too big'. i dont want to be 'too big' anymore. thats 230 and 5-6%. i'll get to bodyfat next. so, if your a short guy, you'll have to be conscious of how big your getting, cause you'll honestly hit 'that point' a lot sooner than us tall guys. its a bitch being tall. what can i say. ya its great in that being tall = respect, but its very hard to fill out a tall frame properly.
DONT GET FAT
typically you'll never want to get over 8% bf. why? exactly- what the fuck for? it serves no purpose whatsoever and makes the fat harder to get off later on. i have found the leaner i am, the more energy i have, the more efficient i become a burning cals, the better i feel mentally and physically. i came to realise that for myself, that overeating is a depressant- it actually causes a chemical reaction in me whos symptoms are eerily similar to depression. i become withdrawn, lazy, unmotivated, listless- all kinds of downside. thats just not cool. if you find you go thru swings in your mood, take a closer look at your diet, specifically your cal and sugar intake the day before. i can almost guarantee you'll find a direct correlation. so stay lean. theres no reason to get fat. which leads to my next thing- eating big to get big.
EAT BIG TO GET BIG
this is one thing i wish would die a slow painful fucking death- you have to eat big to get big. really? what the fuck for? what builds lean tissue? carbs? fats? no- protein. what are carbs and fats then. they are energy sources. so, why the fuck would anyone take in more fats or carbs than they need to meet their energy requirements? oh cause you need to eat big to get big? really. no you eat big to get fat. take in enough protein to keep your body repairing and growing and enough fats and carbs to give you the energy you need to get thru your day. YOU DO NOT NEED A CALORIE SURPLUS TO CREATE LEAN TISSUE. you can create tissue in a deficit. so why the fuck would you think you need to eat big to get big. stimulus+anabolics+ample protein= growth. end of fucking story.
TRAINING
i've done it all. what works for me is strictly instinctual training sessions. i know what im going to train that day, i dont know the exercises the rep ranges the number of sets it all goes by feel. the one constant is that i always train to failure. i always use as much weight as i can properly managed to get a good rep range in, and i always listen to my body- if im not feeling a particular exercise that day WHY THE FUCK WOULD I DO IT- so i can feel my joints work? if you cant feel what your doing, drop the weight, or find a different exercise. leave the ego at home. nobody cares what your lifting bro, and if they do they are a pimply faced kid of 17. who gives a fuck what he thinks.
i never rest between sets. what i have come to find interestingly enough is that my pace slows down as my muscle fatigues, so by the end of my workout when i find myself sitting on the bench getting ready for my next set, its time to pack it in. im tired and my muscle is fried. why train a fried muscle? get in and get out. my workouts dont last longer than 30min typically. why only 30 min? cause i hit my whole body 3 times in 8 days. i dont need to be in the gym for an hour.in fact given the way i train its counterproductive. stimulate growth, dont smash it cause your going to be hitting it again in 48 hrs.
i believe in frequency over heavier weights. some guys will pound the fuck out of that muscle group with big weight, then not train it for a week. i'll run the pump, train it 3 times in a week. thats 3 times your initiating growth. works for me. if your not getting the gains you expect to get get off your ass and start hitting everything every 48 hrs. yes your going to be sore. your body will adapt. its a remarkable mechanism. with that adaptation comes growth. look at people who perform repetitive movements every day on a job that requires the use of a particular muscle group. its developed way more than the rest of their body. so much for over training.
ANABOLICS
if you can afford gh use it. you wont need more than 4-5 iu a day. i like hyges. imo they are the best of the chinese generics. the truth of it is, the more you use, the bigger you'll get. i dont believe in being a kamikaze. i dont believe in using big gram cycles. why? whats going to happen when you go off if you havent built up to that dosage? not even go off, what going to happen when you drop the dose to a bridge? welcome to shrinksville, population : you. how do you avoid this- easy. use only enough to keep your body growing. thats it. the slower the gains, the more quality they are. this is a marathon not a sprint. when do you think is going to happen to boston lloyd when he goes off? hes going to deflate like a popped balloon. you want that? i dont. its godamn hard to lose lean tissue when you use an intelligent approach to anabolics usage when you need to go off. i have been on 200mg of enanthate e4-5d since the last week of dec. thats 3.5 months almost- all i have lost is the look the anabolics gave me- the fullness and density. i still weigh the exact same. when you put it one slow, it'll come off slow. its really that simple.
FIND YOUR FAVOURITES
what to use and how much? well, i like to use a year round base of test and i dont go over 300mg a week. my ceiling is around 750mg. to be honest this summer i'll prolly not go above 400mg a week and not use tren. i have used some nosebleed numbers in my day. i didnt look any better. but i was fucking big. thats not the look i want, so i drop the dose. its about using the dose you need for the look you want, not a wholesale shotgunning of mega doses and hoping it all works out in the end. in fact the less anabolics i use, more responsibly the better i look. i used to run 2g all year. fuck i wish i knew then what i know now. as for compunds im a huge fan of long estered versions of compounds like masteron and tren- i find they give a better density to the cell than the faster esters. i like masteron in the summer as it will keep you dry as long as your carbs and sodium are in check. tren for the obvious reasons. i love var. and the only other anabolic id recommend is npp. those are my core anabolics. the trick is to find those that you respond best to and cycle them in depending on the look you want to achieve. i have found that i react better some some compounds more than others- there is def not a level playing feild when it comes to the bodies utilisation of all compounds. find those that work for you. i dont use anti es to stay dry- they dry my joints out and hamper my recovery.
i think thats about it. if i havent mentioned it, its not worth mentioning -insulin for example- in my day i used a ton of it. i think you'll look better without it.
im not saying this a be all/end all definitive guide for everyone to follow. im saying this is what works for me.
any questions fire away.
pic I useless without more pics...of the car
-
so when im not making a fool of people on here i actually do help a lot of people thru pm. i get asked a lot for my thoughts on these 3 things. so im going to put them all down here. hopefully it can help someone better themselves.
so, i get asked a lot what do you recommend for me to do regarding..., or what should i take, how many grams of carbs should i eat. all that.
my thoughts revolve around and pertain to building a balanced physique that holds quality muscle that can be maintained well into your 40's. why 40's? cause if you truly love doing this your going to be doing this for a long time. a physique that is respectably bigger than most guys who train, but still isnt so big that you are shunned by the general public. something that someone would look at and say 'shit, id like to look like that one day'. something admirable. not a sideshow.
im not saying that being a bber isnt cool- to each their own. i think you can achieve any look that you want your body to have. but for me, as i got older i realised all that being that big does is screams insecurity issues and attract guys. thats it. why the fuck would i want that?
so, how do you build the perfect physique- perfect for yourself- not perfect for what others thinks is perfect? cause at the end of the day this should be about you, not wanting to build something for someone else.
HOW TALL ARE YOU?
the first thing is you have to take your height into consideration. typically the taller you are, the more lean tissue you are going to have to hold to look feasibly respectable. for me at my height- 6'2, id say the upper limit of what i would find balanced without going over board would be 230. anymore than that and your getting 'too big'. i dont want to be 'too big' anymore. thats 230 and 5-6%. i'll get to bodyfat next. so, if your a short guy, you'll have to be conscious of how big your getting, cause you'll honestly hit 'that point' a lot sooner than us tall guys. its a bitch being tall. what can i say. ya its great in that being tall = respect, but its very hard to fill out a tall frame properly.
DONT GET FAT
typically you'll never want to get over 8% bf. why? exactly- what the fuck for? it serves no purpose whatsoever and makes the fat harder to get off later on. i have found the leaner i am, the more energy i have, the more efficient i become a burning cals, the better i feel mentally and physically. i came to realise that for myself, that overeating is a depressant- it actually causes a chemical reaction in me whos symptoms are eerily similar to depression. i become withdrawn, lazy, unmotivated, listless- all kinds of downside. thats just not cool. if you find you go thru swings in your mood, take a closer look at your diet, specifically your cal and sugar intake the day before. i can almost guarantee you'll find a direct correlation. so stay lean. theres no reason to get fat. which leads to my next thing- eating big to get big.
EAT BIG TO GET BIG
this is one thing i wish would die a slow painful fucking death- you have to eat big to get big. really? what the fuck for? what builds lean tissue? carbs? fats? no- protein. what are carbs and fats then. they are energy sources. so, why the fuck would anyone take in more fats or carbs than they need to meet their energy requirements? oh cause you need to eat big to get big? really. no you eat big to get fat. take in enough protein to keep your body repairing and growing and enough fats and carbs to give you the energy you need to get thru your day. YOU DO NOT NEED A CALORIE SURPLUS TO CREATE LEAN TISSUE. you can create tissue in a deficit. so why the fuck would you think you need to eat big to get big. stimulus+anabolics+ample protein= growth. end of fucking story.
TRAINING
i've done it all. what works for me is strictly instinctual training sessions. i know what im going to train that day, i dont know the exercises the rep ranges the number of sets it all goes by feel. the one constant is that i always train to failure. i always use as much weight as i can properly managed to get a good rep range in, and i always listen to my body- if im not feeling a particular exercise that day WHY THE FUCK WOULD I DO IT- so i can feel my joints work? if you cant feel what your doing, drop the weight, or find a different exercise. leave the ego at home. nobody cares what your lifting bro, and if they do they are a pimply faced kid of 17. who gives a fuck what he thinks.
i never rest between sets. what i have come to find interestingly enough is that my pace slows down as my muscle fatigues, so by the end of my workout when i find myself sitting on the bench getting ready for my next set, its time to pack it in. im tired and my muscle is fried. why train a fried muscle? get in and get out. my workouts dont last longer than 30min typically. why only 30 min? cause i hit my whole body 3 times in 8 days. i dont need to be in the gym for an hour.in fact given the way i train its counterproductive. stimulate growth, dont smash it cause your going to be hitting it again in 48 hrs.
i believe in frequency over heavier weights. some guys will pound the fuck out of that muscle group with big weight, then not train it for a week. i'll run the pump, train it 3 times in a week. thats 3 times your initiating growth. works for me. if your not getting the gains you expect to get get off your ass and start hitting everything every 48 hrs. yes your going to be sore. your body will adapt. its a remarkable mechanism. with that adaptation comes growth. look at people who perform repetitive movements every day on a job that requires the use of a particular muscle group. its developed way more than the rest of their body. so much for over training.
ANABOLICS
if you can afford gh use it. you wont need more than 4-5 iu a day. i like hyges. imo they are the best of the chinese generics. the truth of it is, the more you use, the bigger you'll get. i dont believe in being a kamikaze. i dont believe in using big gram cycles. why? whats going to happen when you go off if you havent built up to that dosage? not even go off, what going to happen when you drop the dose to a bridge? welcome to shrinksville, population : you. how do you avoid this- easy. use only enough to keep your body growing. thats it. the slower the gains, the more quality they are. this is a marathon not a sprint. when do you think is going to happen to boston lloyd when he goes off? hes going to deflate like a popped balloon. you want that? i dont. its godamn hard to lose lean tissue when you use an intelligent approach to anabolics usage when you need to go off. i have been on 200mg of enanthate e4-5d since the last week of dec. thats 3.5 months almost- all i have lost is the look the anabolics gave me- the fullness and density. i still weigh the exact same. when you put it one slow, it'll come off slow. its really that simple.
FIND YOUR FAVOURITES
what to use and how much? well, i like to use a year round base of test and i dont go over 300mg a week. my ceiling is around 750mg. to be honest this summer i'll prolly not go above 400mg a week and not use tren. i have used some nosebleed numbers in my day. i didnt look any better. but i was fucking big. thats not the look i want, so i drop the dose. its about using the dose you need for the look you want, not a wholesale shotgunning of mega doses and hoping it all works out in the end. in fact the less anabolics i use, more responsibly the better i look. i used to run 2g all year. fuck i wish i knew then what i know now. as for compunds im a huge fan of long estered versions of compounds like masteron and tren- i find they give a better density to the cell than the faster esters. i like masteron in the summer as it will keep you dry as long as your carbs and sodium are in check. tren for the obvious reasons. i love var. and the only other anabolic id recommend is npp. those are my core anabolics. the trick is to find those that you respond best to and cycle them in depending on the look you want to achieve. i have found that i react better some some compounds more than others- there is def not a level playing feild when it comes to the bodies utilisation of all compounds. find those that work for you. i dont use anti es to stay dry- they dry my joints out and hamper my recovery.
i think thats about it. if i havent mentioned it, its not worth mentioning -insulin for example- in my day i used a ton of it. i think you'll look better without it.
im not saying this a be all/end all definitive guide for everyone to follow. im saying this is what works for me.
any questions fire away.
AMAZING post.
I have personally found many of the things no one mentions to be my truths as well.
Please continue to bring the knowledge.
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GOOD READ,,GREAT PIC..
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I think it got nuked in the "Flex only takes 1300mgs thread".
i spoke to a friend who has met neil and he laughed when i said about flex being on 1300mg aweek. He said hes been on since 16 with no breaks and goes on a dialisis( not sure if spelt right) machine aswell .
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i spoke to a friend who has met neil and he laughed when i said about flex being on 1300mg aweek. He said hes been on since 16 with no breaks and goes on a dialisis( not sure if spelt right) machine aswell .
Why would he go on dialysis?
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Does this mean that 5 grams isn`t the "sweet spot" ?
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I agree with no one, when dieting I like to eat just once or twice a day. I'm not a snacker.
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Why would he go on dialysis?
to take stress off kidneys because hes on soo much gear. All top pros do, they were talking about why ronnie looks like shit now because when the money has gone he cant afford to go on the machines etc. One of the guys conpeted in amercia with lee priest and said when he was in the car with them he thought the engine was running but it was just the guys breathing, thats when he was like fuxk this lifestyle and quit. He promotes the drug free health n fitness side of the supplement industry now.
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to take stress off kidneys because hes on soo much gear. All top pros do, they were talking about why ronnie looks like shit now because when the money has gone he cant afford to go on the machines etc. One of the guys conpeted in amercia with lee priest and said when he was in the car with them he thought the engine was running but it was just the guys breathing, thats when he was like fuxk this lifestyle and quit.
I`ll have to call bullshit on this one bro.
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I`ll have to call bullshit on this one bro.
Holy shit, can you imagine how fucking retarded bodybuilding would be if all the top pros had to be on dialysis to compensate for their gear usage!? It's almost stupid enough to believe!
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I`ll have to call bullshit on this one bro.
Dosnt bother me,its just a convo i had earlier with them.one of them is still a fucking monster now 45, had one heart attack,the other looks athletic as he dosnt juice anymore. They have been in the game awhile, the later owns a supplement company .
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Holy shit, can you imagine how fucking retarded bodybuilding would be if all the top pros had to be on dialysis to compensate for their gear usage!? It's almost stupid enough to believe!
the ones that do are healthy and dont die young basically. Only the top top .
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Dosnt bother me,its just a convo i had earlier with them.one of them is still a fucking monster now 45, had one heart attack,the other looks athletic as he dosnt juice anymore. They have been in the game awhile, the later owns a supplement company .
There used to be rumours about Gaspari walking around his house hooked up to an IV of steroids.
'Dialysis' , you idiot.
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so when im not making a fool of people on here i actually do help a lot of people thru pm. i get asked a lot for my thoughts on these 3 things. so im going to put them all down here. hopefully it can help someone better themselves.
so, i get asked a lot what do you recommend for me to do regarding..., or what should i take, how many grams of carbs should i eat. all that.
my thoughts revolve around and pertain to building a balanced physique that holds quality muscle that can be maintained well into your 40's. why 40's? cause if you truly love doing this your going to be doing this for a long time. a physique that is respectably bigger than most guys who train, but still isnt so big that you are shunned by the general public. something that someone would look at and say 'shit, id like to look like that one day'. something admirable. not a sideshow.
im not saying that being a bber isnt cool- to each their own. i think you can achieve any look that you want your body to have. but for me, as i got older i realised all that being that big does is screams insecurity issues and attract guys. thats it. why the fuck would i want that?
so, how do you build the perfect physique- perfect for yourself- not perfect for what others thinks is perfect? cause at the end of the day this should be about you, not wanting to build something for someone else.
HOW TALL ARE YOU?
the first thing is you have to take your height into consideration. typically the taller you are, the more lean tissue you are going to have to hold to look feasibly respectable. for me at my height- 6'2, id say the upper limit of what i would find balanced without going over board would be 230. anymore than that and your getting 'too big'. i dont want to be 'too big' anymore. thats 230 and 5-6%. i'll get to bodyfat next. so, if your a short guy, you'll have to be conscious of how big your getting, cause you'll honestly hit 'that point' a lot sooner than us tall guys. its a bitch being tall. what can i say. ya its great in that being tall = respect, but its very hard to fill out a tall frame properly.
DONT GET FAT
typically you'll never want to get over 8% bf. why? exactly- what the fuck for? it serves no purpose whatsoever and makes the fat harder to get off later on. i have found the leaner i am, the more energy i have, the more efficient i become a burning cals, the better i feel mentally and physically. i came to realise that for myself, that overeating is a depressant- it actually causes a chemical reaction in me whos symptoms are eerily similar to depression. i become withdrawn, lazy, unmotivated, listless- all kinds of downside. thats just not cool. if you find you go thru swings in your mood, take a closer look at your diet, specifically your cal and sugar intake the day before. i can almost guarantee you'll find a direct correlation. so stay lean. theres no reason to get fat. which leads to my next thing- eating big to get big.
EAT BIG TO GET BIG
this is one thing i wish would die a slow painful fucking death- you have to eat big to get big. really? what the fuck for? what builds lean tissue? carbs? fats? no- protein. what are carbs and fats then. they are energy sources. so, why the fuck would anyone take in more fats or carbs than they need to meet their energy requirements? oh cause you need to eat big to get big? really. no you eat big to get fat. take in enough protein to keep your body repairing and growing and enough fats and carbs to give you the energy you need to get thru your day. YOU DO NOT NEED A CALORIE SURPLUS TO CREATE LEAN TISSUE. you can create tissue in a deficit. so why the fuck would you think you need to eat big to get big. stimulus+anabolics+ample protein= growth. end of fucking story.
TRAINING
i've done it all. what works for me is strictly instinctual training sessions. i know what im going to train that day, i dont know the exercises the rep ranges the number of sets it all goes by feel. the one constant is that i always train to failure. i always use as much weight as i can properly managed to get a good rep range in, and i always listen to my body- if im not feeling a particular exercise that day WHY THE FUCK WOULD I DO IT- so i can feel my joints work? if you cant feel what your doing, drop the weight, or find a different exercise. leave the ego at home. nobody cares what your lifting bro, and if they do they are a pimply faced kid of 17. who gives a fuck what he thinks.
i never rest between sets. what i have come to find interestingly enough is that my pace slows down as my muscle fatigues, so by the end of my workout when i find myself sitting on the bench getting ready for my next set, its time to pack it in. im tired and my muscle is fried. why train a fried muscle? get in and get out. my workouts dont last longer than 30min typically. why only 30 min? cause i hit my whole body 3 times in 8 days. i dont need to be in the gym for an hour.in fact given the way i train its counterproductive. stimulate growth, dont smash it cause your going to be hitting it again in 48 hrs.
i believe in frequency over heavier weights. some guys will pound the fuck out of that muscle group with big weight, then not train it for a week. i'll run the pump, train it 3 times in a week. thats 3 times your initiating growth. works for me. if your not getting the gains you expect to get get off your ass and start hitting everything every 48 hrs. yes your going to be sore. your body will adapt. its a remarkable mechanism. with that adaptation comes growth. look at people who perform repetitive movements every day on a job that requires the use of a particular muscle group. its developed way more than the rest of their body. so much for over training.
ANABOLICS
if you can afford gh use it. you wont need more than 4-5 iu a day. i like hyges. imo they are the best of the chinese generics. the truth of it is, the more you use, the bigger you'll get. i dont believe in being a kamikaze. i dont believe in using big gram cycles. why? whats going to happen when you go off if you havent built up to that dosage? not even go off, what going to happen when you drop the dose to a bridge? welcome to shrinksville, population : you. how do you avoid this- easy. use only enough to keep your body growing. thats it. the slower the gains, the more quality they are. this is a marathon not a sprint. when do you think is going to happen to boston lloyd when he goes off? hes going to deflate like a popped balloon. you want that? i dont. its godamn hard to lose lean tissue when you use an intelligent approach to anabolics usage when you need to go off. i have been on 200mg of enanthate e4-5d since the last week of dec. thats 3.5 months almost- all i have lost is the look the anabolics gave me- the fullness and density. i still weigh the exact same. when you put it one slow, it'll come off slow. its really that simple.
FIND YOUR FAVOURITES
what to use and how much? well, i like to use a year round base of test and i dont go over 300mg a week. my ceiling is around 750mg. to be honest this summer i'll prolly not go above 400mg a week and not use tren. i have used some nosebleed numbers in my day. i didnt look any better. but i was fucking big. thats not the look i want, so i drop the dose. its about using the dose you need for the look you want, not a wholesale shotgunning of mega doses and hoping it all works out in the end. in fact the less anabolics i use, more responsibly the better i look. i used to run 2g all year. fuck i wish i knew then what i know now. as for compunds im a huge fan of long estered versions of compounds like masteron and tren- i find they give a better density to the cell than the faster esters. i like masteron in the summer as it will keep you dry as long as your carbs and sodium are in check. tren for the obvious reasons. i love var. and the only other anabolic id recommend is npp. those are my core anabolics. the trick is to find those that you respond best to and cycle them in depending on the look you want to achieve. i have found that i react better some some compounds more than others- there is def not a level playing feild when it comes to the bodies utilisation of all compounds. find those that work for you. i dont use anti es to stay dry- they dry my joints out and hamper my recovery.
i think thats about it. if i havent mentioned it, its not worth mentioning -insulin for example- in my day i used a ton of it. i think you'll look better without it.
im not saying this a be all/end all definitive guide for everyone to follow. im saying this is what works for me.
any questions fire away.
I followed no ones and gals diet and work out routines or lack there of... Ive lost 62lbs since last august. drop my bf% from plus 30%?? to now 12% I feel younger have way more energy and it shows in my day to day life and in everything I do. So while "no one" may be a dick to those he doesn't like...... I can tell you he would do anything to help anyone.. Unless youre a douche
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Holy shit, can you imagine how fucking retarded bodybuilding would be if all the top pros had to be on dialysis to compensate for their gear usage!? It's almost stupid enough to believe!
I doubt if anyone would participate unless of course they were completely nutz!
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I followed no ones and gals diet and work out routines or lack there of... Ive lost 62lbs since last august. drop my bf% from plus 30%?? to now 12% I feel younger have way more energy and it shows in my day to day life and in everything I do. So while "no one" may be a dick to those he doesn't like...... I can tell you he would do anything to help anyone.. Unless youre a douche
Good job man!!
no one has given me great advice in the past also.......great guy in my book.
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There used to be rumours about Gaspari walking around his house hooked up to an IV of steroids.
'Dialysis' , you idiot.
Well i trust what they say, their drug knowledge alone is crazy. It does make sense if you think about it, steroids fuck your kidneys, those guys (im talking 212 mr o) are on mega doses.
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Well i trust what they say, their drug knowledge alone is crazy. It does make sense if you think about it, steroids fuck your kidneys, those guys (im talking 212 mr o) are on mega doses.
Really?
You have evidence of this?
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Really?
You have evidence of this?
and you call me an idiot? LoL
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Good job man!!
no one has given me great advice in the past also.......great guy in my book.
its been life changing... I felt like a huge blob of shit, I couldn't cut my own toenails I hated tying my shoes... it "I" was pathetic and because of my heights and big frame I hid it well. Nobody ever called me fat but I didn't feel god about my appearance. Losing weight makes me feel 10 years younger. My entire family now works out together and often, gym swimming ball hockey and basket ball. Although the biggest change has been to our diets.
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and you call me an idiot? LoL
Seriously
How many top level bodybuilders have had kidney issues that have been attributed to STEROID usage.
Think carefully now before you make a twat of yourself again.
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its been life changing... I felt like a huge blob of shit, I couldn't cut my own toenails I hated tying my shoes... it "I" was pathetic and because of my heights and big frame I hid it well. Nobody ever called me fat but I didn't feel god about my appearance. Losing weight makes me feel 10 years younger. My entire family now works out together and often, gym swimming ball hockey and basket ball. Although the biggest change has been to our diets.
good to hear brother. fuck that makes me feel good no bullshit.
at the end of the day i come here to bust balls and have fun but ^this is really what it is all about for me.
thank you.
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No one is a stand up guy. He helps a lot of people out! He takes a healthy approach to gear and food. Really solid guy. You have to be a dumb fuck to attack him for no reason. Many including me are getting results from his advice.
I've been working each body part twice a week for a couple weeks now I can already see a difference. I'm trying to get more protein in my diet and lay off shit carbs I don't need. I liked feeling big so I stuffed myself every day. It's shit weight though.
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The black dude lifts heavy for over an hour and the twink does the sissy 30 min workout.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?_r=0quote author=Simple Simon link=topic=529197.msg7440615#msg7440615 date=1396977122]
Seriously
How many top level bodybuilders have had kidney issues that have been attributed to STEROID usage.
Think carefully now before you make a twat of yourself again.
[/quote]
kenneth wheeler
Only a qucik google seacrch coz cant be assed bit there will be plenty more
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The black dude lifts heavy for over an hour and the twink does the sissy 30 min workout.
You are just fucking up a good thread with your idiocy, kindly fuck right off.
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its been life changing... I felt like a huge blob of shit, I couldn't cut my own toenails I hated tying my shoes... it "I" was pathetic and because of my heights and big frame I hid it well. Nobody ever called me fat but I didn't feel god about my appearance. Losing weight makes me feel 10 years younger. My entire family now works out together and often, gym swimming ball hockey and basket ball. Although the biggest change has been to our diets.
Cool bro! :)
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/sports/10steroids.html?_r=0quote author=Simple Simon link=topic=529197.msg7440615#msg7440615 date=1396977122]
Seriously
How many top level bodybuilders have had kidney issues that have been attributed to STEROID usage.
Think carefully now before you make a twat of yourself again.
kenneth wheeler
Only a qucik google seacrch coz cant be assed bit there will be plenty more
Are you sure it was STEROID usage?
You do realise Mr Wheeler was a heavy synthol and diuretic user dont you?
Its diuretics that fuck up your kidneys.
Maybe a list of 10 people in that link who's steroid usage "may" have contributed to their kidney disease.
See, I warned you not to make a twat of yourself.
from the article
“I think it’s hard to be certain what’s causing their kidney disease,” said William Bremner, chairman of the Department of Medicine at the University of Washington and an endocrinologist who studies steroids.
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Your methods explain why you aren't a lot bigger. No one trains by instinct. That isn't giving anyone good information.
Most young guys can't grow because they don't eat enough calories. So your advice to hard gainers sucks. These guys have to force feed themselves.
Haha go fuck yourself, Vince. This advice isn't tailored for idiots who don't realize they simply need to put more food in their mouths. The solution is simple - more calories. If they ate enough bark mulch they'd grow. I too was a "hardgainer" and learned how narrow sighted I was and changed that. It's elementary.
This thread doesn't concern you in the least. Great advice by no one. Lots of "simple" concepts that many people miss. It needs to be reaffirmed by advanced lifters because people are so concerned with finding a new gimmick that they try so many different things and never commit to one. This is solid advice and shit that I finally started doing consistently myself. Now I look back and realize how stupid I was and how much I could have advanced if I had stuck with solid principals like this. But no big deal, we all know what it takes and it's just a matter of execution.
People might think it's a circlejerk and a bunch of back-patting, but it really affirms things and solidifies these principals in your mind. When we go through training luls we begin doubting or fucking around aimlessly. Any time I read a novel post from gal or no one I strap down and start training hard again. I don't care if it's the same thing said two different ways, it truly helps. It's hard to do something repetitively without it becoming cumbersome. But when you find the best ways to get these tasks done and share ideas with others, it becomes a lot more exciting, rewarding and tangible.
Of course someone could say eat 300g of protein, minimal carbs and fats, train hard, use a few hundred mgs of gear but that's so dry and impersonal. When people share their anecdotes, it gives you something to compare and contrast. I don't like deca or NPP but when I hear about others using it, it piques my interest and I think about whether I should try them again. Or when someone shares the foods they eat, it gets me revved up and I want to cook different dishes and eat strict again. These posts are inherently valuable in that they keep things fresh and motivating. They're invaluable. We need people to keep things fresh and we're lucky to have guys like no one on board. They're the kinds of dudes I used to schmoe on and idolize when I was struggling to get big. And I'm happy to have developed a solid enough physique to bump shoulders with them and not look like an outsider. I still have plenty of work before I'll ever be happy with my physique, but we all feel the same and it's nice to be able to contribute and help each other out.
So again, fuck off, Vince. In case you haven't clued in, none of this concerns you. I apologize if you took the time to read my post.
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Dustin is one of the most Intelligent people on the boards excellent post. I feel the same way man. I get motivated from these threads it makes me think outside my normal box. I want to eat more protein now and clean my diet up. I can't wait to get off of work so I can workout and eat something healthy after.
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You are just fucking up a good thread with your idiocy, kindly fuck right off.
Ok I am out of this thread go lift your light weights for 30 mins eat your protein and takes steroids for 20 years to look like a average gym rat much of dumbasses.
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One thing I like to ask when people make threads about giving advice about training, drugs, nutrition, etc. This is by no means meant to be insulting.
Have you competed (more than once) and who have you trained?
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Are you sure it was STEROID usage?
You do realise Mr Wheeler was a heavy synthol and diuretic user dont you?
Its diuretics that fuck up your kidneys.
Maybe a list of 10 people in that link who's steroid usage "may" have contributed to their kidney disease.
See, I warned you not to make a twat of yourself.
from the article
of course like anything there will always be a number of contributing factors. Like most things there is rarely a clear answer.But it plays a role. High blood pressure which roids cause is one of the biggest cause of kidney damage. The kidneys filter our blood so high protein and drugs will put also put stress on them . Im not attacking steroids its just nieve to claim steroids dont do damage.
Anyway glad people are getting results from trying something different.
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One thing I like to ask when people make threads about giving advice about training, drugs, nutrition, etc. This is by no means meant to be insulting.
Have you competed (more than once) and who have you trained?
If thats aimed at me.
I have competed many times in the late 80s to mid 90s, I won an area qualifier and competed at national level in the UK.
I have recently returned to comps and competed last year.
I have advised many people over the years, my main area that people tend to come to me advice for is posing routines and presentation.
Im no great shakes genetically but as a skinny kid who just started lifting weights to assist with another sport I have done OK for myself.
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of course like anything there will always be a number of contributing factors. Like most things there is rarely a clear answer.But it plays a role. High blood pressure which roids cause is one of the biggest cause of kidney damage. The kidneys filter our blood so high protein and drugs will put also put stress on them . Im not attacking steroids its just nieve to claim steroids dont do damage.
Thats quite a turnaround from 'Steroids fuck your kidneys' isnt it?
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Thats quite a turnaround from 'Steroids fuck your kidneys' isnt it?
not at all,its just worded not as aggressive. Why are you so defensive? Even high protein diets are bad for the kidneys.
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of course like anything there will always be a number of contributing factors. Like most things there is rarely a clear answer.But it plays a role. High blood pressure which roids cause is one of the biggest cause of kidney damage. The kidneys filter our blood so high protein and drugs will put also put stress on them . Im not attacking steroids its just nieve to claim steroids dont do damage.
Anyway glad people are getting results from trying something different.
These are good points to heed no matter how safe you regard steroids. I think they're extremely safe, but ballooning in weight compounds the risks tremendously. This is something a LOT of people don't heed attention to.
AAS are pretty damn safe, but it's also easy to step into the dangerzone without knowing. And the longer you stay there, the more damage you're unknowingly creating. I'm guilty of become too laid back and too complacent. Fuck, I was completely infertile and had to come off for more than a year to knock up my beautiful wife. I never thought in a million years that THIS would be the fallout that I have from AAS usage, but fuck me sideways. You can't anticipate every danger in life, but being privy to the possible dangers and making sure to keep them at bay is imperative.
While I don't like fear mongering in the least, I do like to recline to this statement and remind people not to play things off too easily. A little edema could put TREMENDOUS strain on your heart without you even noticing. Keep these situations to an absolute minimum and just avoid getting fat all together. You'll maintain both your health and aesthetics, so I don't see why anyone would trade those for getting fat and shaving years off their lifespan. Makes no sense to me.
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not at all,its just worded not as aggressive. Why are you so defensive? Even high protein diets are bad for the kidneys.
There you go again.
Its normally people with kidney problems to begin with that high protein is bad for.
Stop parroting shit from other people without reading up a bit.
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I'll give an example. I routinely get into it (just respectful debates) with guys named Nick Tumminello and Brad Schoenfeld. Nick is very well read, Brad is highly educated (PHd) both write for respected sites and both have written books. The problem is they are RESEARCHERS and more online "gurus" than anything else. These are guys (and there are a million more) who do more writing than actual "in the trenches" training. They are former trainers that really trained people for a few years, probably didn't like and decided to write about it instead.
On Brads blog in big bold print "No body knows more about muscle building than Brad Schoenfeld". Nick, to the best of my knowledge has never competed but told me his mom is a former bodybuilder, which I guess makes him an expert. Both write for T-nation and Bodybuilding.com
Both, will argue to the death that science trumps practical application but of course doesn't discount the practical application. To the best of my knowledge, neither has trained any high level athletes or high level physique or bodybuilders for any significant amount of time. Ok, both are "experts" in "building muscle" yet they look like the average "fit" person off the street.
I often say (when it comes to strength and conditioning) that knowledge always trumps what the coach may look like. But when it comes to self - professing about being an expert in building muscle, training and nutrition, you better damn well at least look like it to back it up...
So again, have you competed (more than once) and did you win or place high and who have you trained and at what level?
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So again, have you competed (more than once) and did you win or place high and who have you trained and at what level?
Did you miss my post?
If thats aimed at me.
I have competed many times in the late 80s to mid 90s, I won an area qualifier and competed at national level in the UK.
I have recently returned to comps and competed last year.
I have advised many people over the years, my main area that people tend to come to me advice for is posing routines and presentation.
Im no great shakes genetically but as a skinny kid who just started lifting weights to assist with another sport I have done OK for myself.
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Did you miss my post?
It wasn't really aimed at anyone in particular. But yes, I just saw it. IMO, you have good personal credentials. You know what works and what doesn't.
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It wasn't really aimed at anyone in particular. But yes, I just saw it. IMO, you have good personal credentials. You know what works and what doesn't.
Yet with all my real life experience some fat twat who has bought himself a "personal trainer" certificate after completing an 8 week course would get a job in a health club over me every single time.
Thats what irks me about personal trainers.
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Yet with all my real life experience some fat twat who has bought himself a "personal trainer" certificate after completing an 8 week course would get a job in a health club over me every single time.
Thats what irks me about personal trainers.
They would probably get a job over me as well. That's why you start your own PT business.
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I'll give an example. I routinely get into it (just respectful debates) with guys named Nick Tumminello and Brad Schoenfeld. Nick is very well read, Brad is highly educated (PHd) both write for respected sites and both have written books. The problem is they are RESEARCHERS and more online "gurus" than anything else. These are guys (and there are a million more) who do more writing than actual "in the trenches" training. They are former trainers that really trained people for a few years, probably didn't like and decided to write about it instead.
On Brads blog in big bold print "No body knows more about muscle building than Brad Schoenfeld". Nick, to the best of my knowledge has never competed but told me his mom is a former bodybuilder, which I guess makes him an expert. Both write for T-nation and Bodybuilding.com
Both, will argue to the death that science trumps practical application but of course doesn't discount the practical application. To the best of my knowledge, neither has trained any high level athletes or high level physique or bodybuilders for any significant amount of time. Ok, both are "experts" in "building muscle" yet they look like the average "fit" person off the street.
I often say (when it comes to strength and conditioning) that knowledge always trumps what the coach may look like. But when it comes to self - professing about being an expert in building muscle, training and nutrition, you better damn well at least look like it to back it up...
So again, have you competed (more than once) and did you win or place high and who have you trained and at what level?
Good points. Physical things like bodybuilding and sports, that's when you're allowed to have a little more bias against people with just book smarts. Yes, I'm sure an endocrinologist will know vast amounts about hormones and endocrinology, but I'd turn to the local meathead for steroid advice. They've got the hands on training which is invaluable.
The thing I like here is that a lot of people, like yourself, have actually pulled their socks up, dieted the fuck down and competed. Even if it's just a local comp or amateur one, you've done it. I don't even care if anyone's placed well, the experience can really shape your perception and offer esoteric insights that can't be directly described or relayed to another person. You simply have to do it. Sort of like juicing. People try planning so hard for their first cycle, but that first cycle is a write off anyway. Doesn't mean shit outside of the experience because that person won't keep the gains in most cases anyway. But that experience is so important.
I haven't competed myself, but I've dieted down to ridiculous conditioning in anticipation of competing. I don't like to fuck up, ever. And my biggest fear would be to register for a comp, start dieting and show up on the day of the show out of shape. I have a crushing fear of things like that, so instead I've dieted down 3-4 times to low single digit bf (a bone dry 6% realistically, guys that say they hit 3-4% are fucking lying), but then I just realize which parts are lagging and go back to the drawing board. But even just dieting down that rigidly has totally changed my perception.
It's amazing how quickly you can throw your training, dieting and "supplementation" regimen right out the window when you have experiences like that. That's why I try spending lots of time pounding the keyboard furiously to help people. When you have honest, first hand experience it's something you want to share, especially when you see such idiotic advices. Bodybuilding is a "sport" where having a good mentor means everything. You need to be dedicated, observant and meticulous as well, but a trusted individual to steer you in the right direction is so important. We run into conflicts so often and having an honest set of eyes can mean a world of difference. I know that I can't trust myself - too indecisive. If/when I decide to buckle down and register for my first show, I will enlist the help of a very trusted friend because once I'm balls deep into the diet I can no longer trust myself. Things get too hairy if you've ever dieted down that far and that's why a "trainer" is actually really important. Someone can give you a cookie cutter diet, cycle and training routine but it's virtually worthless without consultation through someone else.
Annnd that's enough novels for me today lol... hope that people can find some tidbits of knowledge in all my spastic keyboard tantrums. Lots of awesome insights in this thread, as usual. These threads are always awesome even when there's bickering, because lots of important shit gets hashed out and discussed. I swear, if it weren't for sites like this one I would still look like the scrawniest piece of shit and looking for the next gimmick to get me bigger musckles. ;D
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Why would anyone listen to a know nothing like no one when there are real gurus out there like this specimen?
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KmpcqCs0n_0/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAGE/BXB2_jhEQVU/photo.jpg)
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Yet with all my real life experience some fat twat who has bought himself a "personal trainer" certificate after completing an 8 week course would get a job in a health club over me every single time.
Thats what irks me about personal trainers.
you cant afford a couple grand for the reps level 3 qualification? LoL you come ascross as some bitter 40something f.aggot who never made it in the fitness industry . Middle aged and cant even afford a pt course. Maybe you should save some of your roid money and put it towards a career in which your allready over qualified for, i mean your an einstein of the fitness world arent you? Just think of how many clients lives youd help change for the better once they had been advised by the font of all knowledge.
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Why would anyone listen to a know nothing like no one when there are real gurus out there like this specimen?
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KmpcqCs0n_0/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAGE/BXB2_jhEQVU/photo.jpg)
In all fairness, Will looks like fucking Sergio Oliva next to Tumminello and Schoenfeld.
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Yet with all my real life experience some fat twat who has bought himself a "personal trainer" certificate after completing an 8 week course would get a job in a health club over me every single time.
Thats what irks me about personal trainers.
If you want i can loan you the money out of pity for your course. I feel bad seeing such talent wasted.
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You going to get this thread deleted like the other one? Simon you pathetic f aggot .
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you cant afford a couple grand for the reps level 3 qualification? LoL you come ascross as some bitter 40something f.aggot who never made it in the fitness industry . Middle aged and cant even afford a pt course. Maybe you should save some of your roid money and put it towards a career in which your allready over qualified for, i mean your an einstein of the fitness world arent you? Just think of how many clients lives youd help change for the better once they had been advised by the font of all knowledge.
Way to totally miss the point in order to try and get one over on me.
Grow the fuck up and try and add something of value to threads rather than your idiotic games of oneupmanship.
You have fucked up three times in this thread already.
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Way to totally miss the point in order to try and get one over on me.
Grow the fuck up and try and add something of value to threads rather than your idiotic games of oneupmanship.
You have fucked up three times in this thread already.
How? What i said is my opinion, which clashed with yours.
answer the question, can you not afford the course? You fucking bummy c unt.
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Way to totally miss the point in order to try and get one over on me.
Grow the fuck up and try and add something of value to threads rather than your idiotic games of oneupmanship.
You have fucked up three times in this thread already.
i bet you wear tesco bags over your socks to stop your feet getting wet from the holes in your shoes lol
seriously though i can front you that money for your course einstein
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How? What i said is my opinion, which clashed with yours.
answer the question, can you not afford the course? You fucking bummy c unt.
No you stated what you believed to be facts and posted what you thought was evidence to back up what you thought was facts.
I also have zero interest in pursuing a career in the fitness industry, I have a career that I have been doing for the last 25 years thank you very much.
If you want to donate the £2,000 to charity instead of giving it to me then feel free to do it and post the evidence.
You up for donating to charity?
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Yet with all my real life experience some fat twat who has bought himself a "personal trainer" certificate after completing an 8 week course would get a job in a health club over me every single time.
Thats what irks me about personal trainers.
Based on your threads you dont know as much as you think you do, you follow a lot of fake experts around here like a blind sheep, I got my certificate because that is what is required but lot of people on this board are giving out shitty advice no wonder you guys accuse natural bodybuilders of being on steroids but it a lack of real knowledge about training and nutrition and most people on this board are not even aware.
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You going to get this thread deleted like the other one? Simon you pathetic f aggot .
Oh dear, another homophobe. ::)
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Based on your threads you dont know as much as you think you do, you follow a lot of fake experts around here like a blind sheep, I got my certificate because that is what is required but lot of people on this board are giving out shitty advice no wonder you guys accuse natural bodybuilders of being on steroids but it a lack of real knowledge about training and nutrition and most people on this board are not even aware.
I know enough to have competed at National level and to get back in shape and compete at 48 years of age after a 15 year lay off.
What have you achieved?
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No you stated what you believed to be facts and posted what you thought was evidence to back up what you thought was facts.
I also have zero interest in pursuing a career in the fitness industry, I have a career that I have been doing for the last 25 years thank you very much.
If you want to donate the £2,000 to charity instead of giving it to me then feel free to do it and post the evidence.
You up for donating to charity?
did you really think id pay for you to do your fucking course hahaha and charity? What a load of tax evasion shit they are
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I know enough to have competed at National level and to get back in shape and compete at 48 years of age after a 15 year lay off.
What have you achieved?
where did you place? Pics? Where are your blue stars?
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where did you place? Pics? Where are your blue stars?
mind your own business
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Oh dear, another homophobe. ::)
not at all im usually a nice guy, but people like you bring the worst out of me,the stab you up your arse with 9" blade worse of me.
Ive had enough of c unts like you attacking anyone who disagrees with you. Your a c unt end of of.
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so when im not making a fool of people on here i actually do help a lot of people thru pm. i get asked a lot for my thoughts on these 3 things. so im going to put them all down here. hopefully it can help someone better themselves.
so, i get asked a lot what do you recommend for me to do regarding..., or what should i take, how many grams of carbs should i eat. all that.
my thoughts revolve around and pertain to building a balanced physique that holds quality muscle that can be maintained well into your 40's. why 40's? cause if you truly love doing this your going to be doing this for a long time. a physique that is respectably bigger than most guys who train, but still isnt so big that you are shunned by the general public. something that someone would look at and say 'shit, id like to look like that one day'. something admirable. not a sideshow.
im not saying that being a bber isnt cool- to each their own. i think you can achieve any look that you want your body to have. but for me, as i got older i realised all that being that big does is screams insecurity issues and attract guys. thats it. why the fuck would i want that?
so, how do you build the perfect physique- perfect for yourself- not perfect for what others thinks is perfect? cause at the end of the day this should be about you, not wanting to build something for someone else.
HOW TALL ARE YOU?
the first thing is you have to take your height into consideration. typically the taller you are, the more lean tissue you are going to have to hold to look feasibly respectable. for me at my height- 6'2, id say the upper limit of what i would find balanced without going over board would be 230. anymore than that and your getting 'too big'. i dont want to be 'too big' anymore. thats 230 and 5-6%. i'll get to bodyfat next. so, if your a short guy, you'll have to be conscious of how big your getting, cause you'll honestly hit 'that point' a lot sooner than us tall guys. its a bitch being tall. what can i say. ya its great in that being tall = respect, but its very hard to fill out a tall frame properly.
DONT GET FAT
typically you'll never want to get over 8% bf. why? exactly- what the fuck for? it serves no purpose whatsoever and makes the fat harder to get off later on. i have found the leaner i am, the more energy i have, the more efficient i become a burning cals, the better i feel mentally and physically. i came to realise that for myself, that overeating is a depressant- it actually causes a chemical reaction in me whos symptoms are eerily similar to depression. i become withdrawn, lazy, unmotivated, listless- all kinds of downside. thats just not cool. if you find you go thru swings in your mood, take a closer look at your diet, specifically your cal and sugar intake the day before. i can almost guarantee you'll find a direct correlation. so stay lean. theres no reason to get fat. which leads to my next thing- eating big to get big.
EAT BIG TO GET BIG
this is one thing i wish would die a slow painful fucking death- you have to eat big to get big. really? what the fuck for? what builds lean tissue? carbs? fats? no- protein. what are carbs and fats then. they are energy sources. so, why the fuck would anyone take in more fats or carbs than they need to meet their energy requirements? oh cause you need to eat big to get big? really. no you eat big to get fat. take in enough protein to keep your body repairing and growing and enough fats and carbs to give you the energy you need to get thru your day. YOU DO NOT NEED A CALORIE SURPLUS TO CREATE LEAN TISSUE. you can create tissue in a deficit. so why the fuck would you think you need to eat big to get big. stimulus+anabolics+ample protein= growth. end of fucking story.
TRAINING
i've done it all. what works for me is strictly instinctual training sessions. i know what im going to train that day, i dont know the exercises the rep ranges the number of sets it all goes by feel. the one constant is that i always train to failure. i always use as much weight as i can properly managed to get a good rep range in, and i always listen to my body- if im not feeling a particular exercise that day WHY THE FUCK WOULD I DO IT- so i can feel my joints work? if you cant feel what your doing, drop the weight, or find a different exercise. leave the ego at home. nobody cares what your lifting bro, and if they do they are a pimply faced kid of 17. who gives a fuck what he thinks.
i never rest between sets. what i have come to find interestingly enough is that my pace slows down as my muscle fatigues, so by the end of my workout when i find myself sitting on the bench getting ready for my next set, its time to pack it in. im tired and my muscle is fried. why train a fried muscle? get in and get out. my workouts dont last longer than 30min typically. why only 30 min? cause i hit my whole body 3 times in 8 days. i dont need to be in the gym for an hour.in fact given the way i train its counterproductive. stimulate growth, dont smash it cause your going to be hitting it again in 48 hrs.
i believe in frequency over heavier weights. some guys will pound the fuck out of that muscle group with big weight, then not train it for a week. i'll run the pump, train it 3 times in a week. thats 3 times your initiating growth. works for me. if your not getting the gains you expect to get get off your ass and start hitting everything every 48 hrs. yes your going to be sore. your body will adapt. its a remarkable mechanism. with that adaptation comes growth. look at people who perform repetitive movements every day on a job that requires the use of a particular muscle group. its developed way more than the rest of their body. so much for over training.
ANABOLICS
if you can afford gh use it. you wont need more than 4-5 iu a day. i like hyges. imo they are the best of the chinese generics. the truth of it is, the more you use, the bigger you'll get. i dont believe in being a kamikaze. i dont believe in using big gram cycles. why? whats going to happen when you go off if you havent built up to that dosage? not even go off, what going to happen when you drop the dose to a bridge? welcome to shrinksville, population : you. how do you avoid this- easy. use only enough to keep your body growing. thats it. the slower the gains, the more quality they are. this is a marathon not a sprint. when do you think is going to happen to boston lloyd when he goes off? hes going to deflate like a popped balloon. you want that? i dont. its godamn hard to lose lean tissue when you use an intelligent approach to anabolics usage when you need to go off. i have been on 200mg of enanthate e4-5d since the last week of dec. thats 3.5 months almost- all i have lost is the look the anabolics gave me- the fullness and density. i still weigh the exact same. when you put it one slow, it'll come off slow. its really that simple.
FIND YOUR FAVOURITES
what to use and how much? well, i like to use a year round base of test and i dont go over 300mg a week. my ceiling is around 750mg. to be honest this summer i'll prolly not go above 400mg a week and not use tren. i have used some nosebleed numbers in my day. i didnt look any better. but i was fucking big. thats not the look i want, so i drop the dose. its about using the dose you need for the look you want, not a wholesale shotgunning of mega doses and hoping it all works out in the end. in fact the less anabolics i use, more responsibly the better i look. i used to run 2g all year. fuck i wish i knew then what i know now. as for compunds im a huge fan of long estered versions of compounds like masteron and tren- i find they give a better density to the cell than the faster esters. i like masteron in the summer as it will keep you dry as long as your carbs and sodium are in check. tren for the obvious reasons. i love var. and the only other anabolic id recommend is npp. those are my core anabolics. the trick is to find those that you respond best to and cycle them in depending on the look you want to achieve. i have found that i react better some some compounds more than others- there is def not a level playing feild when it comes to the bodies utilisation of all compounds. find those that work for you. i dont use anti es to stay dry- they dry my joints out and hamper my recovery.
i think thats about it. if i havent mentioned it, its not worth mentioning -insulin for example- in my day i used a ton of it. i think you'll look better without it.
im not saying this a be all/end all definitive guide for everyone to follow. im saying this is what works for me.
any questions fire away.
Back on topic please.
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Fucking dickhead anyways great thread!!
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not at all im usually a nice guy, but people like you bring the worst out of me,the stab you up your arse with 9" blade worse of me.
Ive had enough of c unts like you attacking anyone who disagrees with you. Your a c unt end of of.
Dont take it so serious mate, its just banter on the internet.
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Dont take it so serious mate, its just banter on the internet.
im not, that is banter?
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im not, that is banter?
Wanting to shove a blade up someones arse is banter?
banter
ˈbantə/Submit
noun
1.
the playful and friendly exchange of teasing remarks.
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Wanting to shove a blade up someones arse is banter?
Lol about as banter as it comes "mate"
tren banter lmao
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The biggest bullshit I see is a lot of you guys are so brained washed by the supplement companies in believing that you need to eat a shit load of protein to build muscles and carbs will make you fat, so you are on your low carb diet drinking your whey protein but on a shirt you look like you dont even working out.
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Gotta` agree with Joe once again,real world experience trumps any book you could ever read when it comes to weight training and nutrition for weight trainers.
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The biggest bullshit I see is a lot of you guys are so brained washed by the supplement companies in believing that you need to eat a shit load of protein to build muscles and carbs will make you fat, so you are on your low carb diet drinking your whey protein but on a shirt you look like you dont even working out.
Is English your first language?
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Why would anyone listen to a know nothing like no one when there are real gurus out there like this specimen?
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KmpcqCs0n_0/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAGE/BXB2_jhEQVU/photo.jpg)
Believe it or not he actually looked decent once upon a time. I will see if I can locate a pic.
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This is the one I was thinking of, can't see much I guess.
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Wanting to shove a blade up someones arse is banter?
Hes not the only person on getbig that would love to shove something up your ass im afraid.
The other one is just vehemently denying it.
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This is the one I was thinking of, can't see much I guess.
Doesnt look like the same bloke
What happened to him?
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This is the one I was thinking of, can't see much I guess.
Did something happen to his face/chin area?
He looks like a facial gunshot victim or something requiring reconstruction.
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Doesnt look like the same bloke
What happened to him?
HE WENT TO SLEEP WISHING HE LOOKED LIKE ROB HALFORD'FROM JUDAS PRIEST'HE AWOKE IT CAME TRUE...
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Did something happen to his face/chin area?
He looks like a facial gunshot victim or something requiring reconstruction.
Not talking shit but he looks like he had a organ transplant. They take meds that swell their faces like crazy.
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Did something happen to his face/chin area?
He looks like a facial gunshot victim or something requiring reconstruction.
Faces change as we get older. If lucky, you don't end up looking too rough. If not, you end up looking like the gargoyle posted above.
A good example would be Andrea Corr whom went from highly highly HIGHLY bangable to .. well .... highly highly HIGHLY bangable. That's not the point though. Her whole facial structurs is changing. She even said so herself on an interview I saw with her years ago. Can't remember her exact words but that was the gist of it.
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i was talking about protein absorption and the myth of the anabolic window. you come along with 'you dont think metabolism slows down etc etc'
what in the fuck does protein absorption have to do with metabolism.
'nice day, eh bob?'
'ya, but it rained in china yesterday'
the fuck does that have to do with what im talking about.
Really just protein? I'll quote what you said
ya, just like 'they' say you need to eat your protein and carbs to get the benefit of the 'anabolic window'- so what happens if i dont eat for an hour after my session, or even that day- my body going to say when i reintroduce food, 'well, he didnt quite make the window, i cant really use this now'?
Sounds a lot like taking about more than protein; waiting for "even [a] day" without food and the seemingly implying that the body is fully ready to utilize the cals (protein / carbs, again your words), the same as it would have the previous day. Why getting defensive anyway? Aren't we all here to learn, maybe not all, many. That's not good form when one gets riled up over a simple question
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This is the one I was thinking of, can't see much I guess.
Young Dorian
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Really just protein? I'll quote what you said
Sounds a lot like taking about more than protein; waiting for "even [a] day" without food and the seemingly implying that the body is fully ready to utilize the cals (protein / carbs, again your words), the same as it would have the previous day. Why getting defensive anyway? Aren't we all here to learn, maybe not all, many. That's not good form when one gets riled up over a simple question
honestly dude I thought you were twisting my words. sorry to jump on you.
that being said again I ask you what role metabolism plays in the uptake of nutrients to the trained muscle?
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good posts by justin here.
classic GB between Latiuss and Simon.
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no one getting his shit pushed in up here in this thread.
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no one getting his shit pushed in up here in this thread.
holy fuck bro... you look like shit... you are an idiot..... the end...
no one looks has valid advice.... the end
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Solid post by no one
can people just ignore shit-sos annoying Woolycock gimmick until he fucks off and drinks himself unconscious ?
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Solid post by no one
can people just ignore shit-sos annoying Woolycock gimmick until he fucks off and drinks himself unconscious ?
who?
we already forgot who you were talking about.
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Solid post by no one
can people just ignore shit-sos annoying Woolycock gimmick until he fucks off and drinks himself unconscious ?
we need a mod to delete retarded responses from ass clowns and then the shit would cease
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Let's see if I got the formula. Instinctive training as long as it works for you. Keep lean. Then decades of drugs to look good at the beach.
This is a recipe for lunacy.
(http://37.media.tumblr.com/cf23fb2fe0a375e03e8b2f4c871f70b2/tumblr_mjwy1cRH7F1rtb7tho1_250.gif)
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honestly dude I thought you were twisting my words. sorry to jump on you.
that being said again I ask you what role metabolism plays in the uptake of nutrients to the trained muscle?
No worries my man. When active one certainly burns more cals, burn more than you take in for too long and your body has to compensate (glycogen, fat, eventually muscle); nothing new here. As far as actual nutrient uptake itself, I don't know the science to say if metabolism plays a role so I can't comment.
Here is an interesting article I found, chapter 2,3,4,8 are very interesting check it out if you have time http://arno.unimaas.nl/show.cgi?fid=5893
All the best
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I don't know if I buy into the whole "metabolism "slows down" as you age" thing.
Most of the things we think are inevitable changes with age are likely due just as much (if not more so) to activity level.
Metabolism is a simple transfer of energy from one cell to another.
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You are demonstrating that musclemen are not that bright. All brawn. Anyway, don't give me your 'instinctive' training program 'works for you'. How on earth can anyone deduce anything whatever from what you wrote?
First we have the nonsense that free weights are better than machines and now all programs are okay 'if they work for you'. That is a totally empty method and has zero information of value.
Since you are repeating what you read in the muscle magazines you figure you have state of the art information. I am afraid you are not an expert in hypertrophy. Few people on Getbig are.
I agree with this, no one excluded.
That being said, the only other thing that I DONT agree with is that machines are superior to free weights. Nothing could be further from the truth and I've proven this to you many times over the years. For BODYBUILDING purposes only, machines have there place but minimally at best.
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I didn't read every post here but...
I think eating pre and post workout, at least protein, is a good idea. Perhaps not absolutely necessary but the research points to it most likely being beneficial. In some elderly people there is zero increase in protein synthesis if there is no protein intake soon after the training session, the effect is lost altogether... but they were elderly, so...
If anyone really wants to know what the research says, i.e. not most of getbig, look at this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3577439/
As far as gaining in a deficit, is it not true that muscle growth requires energy? And if you're
in a caloric deficit and eating enough protein, will not some of that protein be used for energy, gluconeogenesis etc? Yes I have seen recomps on many guys during contest prep. Especially if they went from being clean to starting a cycle. But the most successful recomps happen when you have periodic refeeds. I remember asking Disgusted if the cheat day on his diet contributes to the muscle gained during his prep diets and he said definitely. I think the muscle gain is realised when the body senses there is excess energy coming in. It's very hard to grow in a constant deficit. I remember Mentzer talking about this, he suspected the body could "steal" calories from bodyfat, that's how one could grow in a deficit, but he wasn't sure and he was no scientist either.
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No one-
Typically, what do you eat in a day?
Break it down please.
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No one-
Typically, what do you eat in a day?
Break it down please.
I can answer this one for ya... he had a wolffox with a side order of visualcorrection..... he ate them up and then shit them out lol
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I can answer this one for ya... he had a wolffox with a side order of visualcorrection..... he ate them up and then shit them out lol
I think you might be referring to me?
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I think you might be referring to me?
me thinks your getting a little smarter
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me thinks your getting a little smarter
I was born smarter than you.
any-who, read through the thread, and the entirety of getbig.
me and No One have never had an issue.
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I agree with this, no one excluded.
That being said, the only other thing that I DONT agree with is that machines are superior to free weights. Nothing could be further from the truth and I've proven this to you many times over the years. For BODYBUILDING purposes only, machines have there place but minimally at best.
i see a lot of value in using whatever provides you with the best workout. i have gotten some of the best results for my arms using strictly cable work. accroding to conventionality this should not possible over using free weights.
I didn't read every post here but...
I think eating pre and post workout, at least protein, is a good idea. Perhaps not absolutely necessary but the research points to it most likely being beneficial. In some elderly people there is zero increase in protein synthesis if there is no protein intake soon after the training session, the effect is lost altogether... but they were elderly, so...
If anyone really wants to know what the research says, i.e. not most of getbig, look at this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3577439/
As far as gaining in a deficit, is it not true that muscle growth requires energy? And if you're
in a caloric deficit and eating enough protein, will not some of that protein be used for energy, gluconeogenesis etc? Yes I have seen recomps on many guys during contest prep. Especially if they went from being clean to starting a cycle. But the most successful recomps happen when you have periodic refeeds. I remember asking Disgusted if the cheat day on his diet contributes to the muscle gained during his prep diets and he said definitely. I think the muscle gain is realised when the body senses there is excess energy coming in. It's very hard to grow in a constant deficit. I remember Mentzer talking about this, he suspected the body could "steal" calories from bodyfat, that's how one could grow in a deficit, but he wasn't sure and he was no scientist either.
to be honest Van i care little for 'research'. i have found that 'real life' seldom reflects what 'research' would have you believe. i followed the research for years. it got me fat. then i started using common sense.
in my experience, in a calorie deficit the body utilises protein strictly for anabolism, and will use in the absence of carbs and fats, the bodies own fat for fuel.
you touch on something interesting- recomps, so lets examine that. think about the last week prep and the depletions that are undertaken, esp water. what occurs? we force the body to take in more fluid than it can use or need in oder to get it used to passing unwanted water. then we cut water off. the body keeps expelling it thinking there is more to come. as a result you end up nice and dry. its a little more complicated than that, but that will do for this example. now that the body is forced to remain without water when water is re introduced it hoards, because the body loves stasis.
now think of this in terms of protein and a higher cal diet. what happens. the body, knowing more protein is coming simply wastes it as it does the water in the above example. we have trained our bodies to know there is always more protein coming so it excretes it. now throw yourself into a severe deficit. what will the body do with the protein? hoard it. it does it for water, why would it not do it with nutrients it needs, esp protein, and thus utilise it for the purpose the body demands it for- regeneration and repair.
it is my belief and opinion that is why you grow in a deficit- im not talking a constant deficit- im talking going from say 8% to 4 or 5%. i dont think one can truly live in a constant deficit. the body needs fat to survive and, for the organs, including the brain to function properly.
No one-
Typically, what do you eat in a day?
Break it down please.
hey dude like i said when i am dieting i love fats and proteins.
my fat choices are peanut better (simon loves this:D) almonds, cashews.
my protein choices are extra lean ground beef, whole eggs and chicken breast.
my cals when dieting are typically around 1200 on my lower days to upwards of 1500 on days i graze on nuts (insert joke here :D)
one or two meals a day. i just eat when hungry. no set schedule.
when im not dieting i eat everything and anything. fasting and training fasted allows me to stay within a month or so of striking distance of a nice bf level for summer.
I can answer this one for ya... he had a wolffox with a side order of visualcorrection..... he ate them up and then shit them out lol
VP is my homeboy. he thought i was too terse at first. i think he understands me better now.
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@ no one, I really believe and want to believe that you don't need to eat a ton to put on muscle, but how do you explain those guys we see at the gym all the time but look normal like they don't lift?
Are they just hard gainers? I don't have a hard time putting on muscle (for a natural) but get fat very easy; just by looking at carbs. :-X
Maybe it's true that some are "hard gainers" and need to eat that surplus ???
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to be honest Van i care little for 'research'. i have found that 'real life' seldom reflects what 'research' would have you believe. i followed the research for years. it got me fat. then i started using common sense.
Why read up on a scientific study of 100 people that concludes that 60 of them 'x' happens and 40 them 'y' happens.
Its purely down to how you yourself react/respond that counts.
What difference does the results of someone else matter?
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Why read up on a scientific study of 100 people that concludes that 60 of them 'x' happens and 40 them 'y' happens.
Its purely down to how you yourself react/respond that counts.
What difference does the results of someone else matter?
That is a meta-study looking at all the available literature. It very clearly ackowledges when and where you can't draw definitive conclusions. In the end it very clearly states, for example:
Distilling the data into firm, specific recommendations is difficult due to the inconsistency of findings and scarcity of systematic investigations seeking to optimize pre- and/or post-exercise protein dosage and timing. Practical nutrient timing applications for the goal of muscle hypertrophy inevitably must be tempered with field observations and experience in order to bridge gaps in the scientific literature. With that said, high-quality protein dosed at 0.4–0.5 g/kg of LBM at both pre- and post-exercise is a simple, relatively fail-safe general guideline that reflects the current evidence showing a maximal acute anabolic effect of 20–40 g
Read that again!
I think the anti-science crowd is ridiculous, it's because of science we even talk about protein, know that muscle is made of protein and so on.
It's because of science we have synthetic anabolic steroids, growth hormone, insulin, thyroid hormones, antiestrogens and everything else that has resulted in the modern bodybuilder.
If "gurus" didn't read scientific papers after say mid 60s the bodies would still look the same as back then. The anti-science crowd loves to cite research when suits them though, when it confirms their hunches but only then!
No we are not all unique with uniquely working bodies. We all work roughly the same. Otherwise, why would 'no one' even write about his experiences? It only works on him! ::) :D
I also doubt any research made 'no one' fat, more likely it was broscience and dogcrapping that made him fat... there is no research saying anyone needs 500 grams of protein and an enormous amounts of calories for any purpose. The research would have said bodybuilders don't need more protein than anyone else (at least that was main stance of the scientific community for a long time).
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That is a meta-study looking at all the available literature. It very clearly ackowledges when and where you can't draw definitive conclusions. In the end it very clearly states, for example:
Read that again!
I think the anti-science crowd is ridiculous, it's because of science we even talk about protein, know that muscle is made of protein and so on.
It's because of science we have synthetic anabolic steroids, growth hormone, insulin, thyroid hormones, antiestrogens and everything else that has resulted in the modern bodybuilder.
If "gurus" didn't read scientific papers after say mid 60s the bodies would still look the same as back then. The anti-science crowd loves to cite research when suits them though, when it confirms their hunches but only then!
No we are not all unique with uniquely working bodies. We all work roughly the same. Otherwise, why would 'no one' even write about his experiences? It only works on him! ::) :D
I also doubt any research made 'no one' fat, more likely it was broscience and dogcrapping that made him fat... there is no research saying anyone needs 500 grams of protein and an enormous amounts of calories for any purpose. The research would have said bodybuilders don't need more protein than anyone else (at least that was main stance of the scientific community for a long time).
Great post
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No we are not all unique with uniquely working bodies. We all work roughly the same.
Which means we all differ.
So what works for me might not work for you, which is what 'no one' has emphasised all along.
Im not anti science, Im anti statistical study.
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Which means we all differ.
So what works for me might not work for you, which is what 'no one' has emphasised all along.
Im not anti science, Im anti statistical study.
So when I said, "eating protein pre and post workout is probably a good idea" it was a worthless comment based on useless statistics? If studies say that training fasted results in a net catabolic state that is hard to reverse even if you eat after the workout, it was based on useless research?
Would you train fasted and then wait a few hours before eating if you wanted to gain muscle? I mean purely based on your personal experiences?
I'm sure it "works" for no one and galeniko but neither are putting on new muscle and both are on hormones. Neither even has the goal of gaining muscle.
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So when I said, "eating protein pre and post workout is probably a good idea" it was a worthless comment based on useless statistics? If studies say that training fasted results in a net catabolic state that is hard to reverse even if you eat after the workout, it was based on useless research?
Would you train fasted and then wait a few hours before eating if you wanted to gain muscle? I mean purely based on your personal experiences?
I do all of those things depending on circumstances.
I eat before training , I eat after training, sometimes I dont do either.
I sometimes dont eat for a long time after training depending on how my lifes panning out and if I have something else to do.
None of it really effects me one way or another to a significant degree.
Just because I have a shake after training every day for 6 months doesnt mean Im going to gain any more muscle than if I eat a chicken breast 4 hours later.
In fact I have dropped shakes from my diet over the last three months and look better for it, I bet the supplements scientific studies doesnt come to that conclusion.
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Most people don't have even the most basic of understanding of what "statistics" is and how it is an essential component of scientific inquiry with critical implications in how the world works, even on an individual level.
For that matter most people have an even worse understanding of what "science" is.
Also if you want to criticize scientific work you should actually read the studies in question (not the abstract and not some popular-press summary) and what the authors have to say about the results. Nearly all of them address the issue of generalizability.
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Also if you want to criticize scientific work you should actually read the studies in question (not the abstract and not some popular-press summary) and what the authors have to say about the results. Nearly all of them address the issue of generalizability.
Does that translate as "Read our study but it may not be applicable to you at all anyway"?
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Which means we all differ.
So what works for me might not work for you, which is what 'no one' has emphasised all along.
Im not anti science, Im anti statistical study.
Simple Simon it is. Discussing serious things with you doesn't work for me! Cling to the 'everyone is different so do what works for you' theory because it explains nothing, simpletons excepted!
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I didn't read every post here but...
I think eating pre and post workout, at least protein, is a good idea. Perhaps not absolutely necessary but the research points to it most likely being beneficial. In some elderly people there is zero increase in protein synthesis if there is no protein intake soon after the training session, the effect is lost altogether... but they were elderly, so...
If anyone really wants to know what the research says, i.e. not most of getbig, look at this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3577439/
As far as gaining in a deficit, is it not true that muscle growth requires energy? And if you're
in a caloric deficit and eating enough protein, will not some of that protein be used for energy, gluconeogenesis etc? Yes I have seen recomps on many guys during contest prep. Especially if they went from being clean to starting a cycle. But the most successful recomps happen when you have periodic refeeds. I remember asking Disgusted if the cheat day on his diet contributes to the muscle gained during his prep diets and he said definitely. I think the muscle gain is realised when the body senses there is excess energy coming in. It's very hard to grow in a constant deficit. I remember Mentzer talking about this, he suspected the body could "steal" calories from bodyfat, that's how one could grow in a deficit, but he wasn't sure and he was no scientist either.
the refeed, if done at the right time, causes hormonal upregulation (thyroid, leptin, test) and ideally should replenish glycogen that in turn will limit amino acid (BCAA) utilisation as an energy substrate.
And yes, a natural guy can certainly grow in an alleged calorie deficit (but what does this mean as calories are not all equal) for a while, assuming he isn't in top shape and has been making lots of mistakes in the past.
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Does that translate as "Read our study but it may not be applicable to you at all anyway"?
Did a scientist fuck your boyfriend or something?
It translates as "read something and understand it before you criticize it and the people who did it." You seem capable of reading at perhaps an 8th-grade level, understanding may take a little effort though.
Or just continue to think you're a special snowflake who is smarter/better than everyone else and ignore a huge volume of tremendously valuable information on human health and physiology that science has produced over the last few centuries.
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So when I said, "eating protein pre and post workout is probably a good idea" it was a worthless comment based on useless statistics? If studies say that training fasted results in a net catabolic state that is hard to reverse even if you eat after the workout, it was based on useless research?
Would you train fasted and then wait a few hours before eating if you wanted to gain muscle? I mean purely based on your personal experiences?
I'm sure it "works" for no one and galeniko but neither are putting on new muscle and both are on hormones. Neither even has the goal of gaining muscle.
whats you point?
your saying what im doing doesnt work?
i dont understand.
i said this is what i do, this is how i look. you say but your not putting on new muscle. you are on hormones. of course im on fucking hormones. are you retarded? of course it works for me. thats the whole point of the thread.
my post was aimed at the average gym rat who uses anabolics that wants to better themselves, which is what 90% of this board is. i make it perfectly clear my advise isnt for nattys, or pro bbers.
let me put it to you straight Van B.
nobody here has to listen to a word i say or follow my advise,. im not trying to say my way is better than any other way. im saying a) READ MY FUCKING POST. and then once you have read it, see if anything i wrote, what im trying to do, the look im trying to achieve is something that you are interested in as well. if so, great- this is what i did to get there.
its that simple. im not training pro bbers here or nattys. im saying what i did to look the way i do. why is it so fucking hard for you to understand that.
like are you fucking retarded? how many time do i have have to make the emboldened part clear to you?
and for your information i got to the biggest and leanest i ever was 'training before i ate and fasting afterwards'. but im sure you have study somewhere that says thats not possible, or effective. lol
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Simple Simon it is. Discussing serious things with you doesn't work for me! Cling to the 'everyone is different so do what works for you' theory because it explains nothing, simpletons excepted!
We have never discussed anything and I don't suppose we ever will, I have always kept out of the threads where people attack you out of a sort of respect for my elders thing.
I expected more of you than such a post.
Never mind, carry on.
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SS, you're right. I should attack the argument or theory and not the person. My mistake.
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I agree on the insulin thing. I tried it and it didn't do anything. Once I stopped, I went right back to the way i was before. I guess I'm just not a responder.
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I agree on the insulin thing. I tried it and it didn't do anything. Once I stopped, I went right back to the way i was before. I guess I'm just not a responder.
A.M.D in da house,,,,what up big man,,,
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i see a lot of value in using whatever provides you with the best workout. i have gotten some of the best results for my arms using strictly cable work. accroding to conventionality this should not possible over using free weights.
to be honest Van i care little for 'research'. i have found that 'real life' seldom reflects what 'research' would have you believe. i followed the research for years. it got me fat. then i started using common sense.
in my experience, in a calorie deficit the body utilises protein strictly for anabolism, and will use in the absence of carbs and fats, the bodies own fat for fuel.
you touch on something interesting- recomps, so lets examine that. think about the last week prep and the depletions that are undertaken, esp water. what occurs? we force the body to take in more fluid than it can use or need in oder to get it used to passing unwanted water. then we cut water off. the body keeps expelling it thinking there is more to come. as a result you end up nice and dry. its a little more complicated than that, but that will do for this example. now that the body is forced to remain without water when water is re introduced it hoards, because the body loves stasis.
now think of this in terms of protein and a higher cal diet. what happens. the body, knowing more protein is coming simply wastes it as it does the water in the above example. we have trained our bodies to know there is always more protein coming so it excretes it. now throw yourself into a severe deficit. what will the body do with the protein? hoard it. it does it for water, why would it not do it with nutrients it needs, esp protein, and thus utilise it for the purpose the body demands it for- regeneration and repair.
it is my belief and opinion that is why you grow in a deficit- im not talking a constant deficit- im talking going from say 8% to 4 or 5%. i dont think one can truly live in a constant deficit. the body needs fat to survive and, for the organs, including the brain to function properly.
hey dude like i said when i am dieting i love fats and proteins.
my fat choices are peanut better (simon loves this:D) almonds, cashews.
my protein choices are extra lean ground beef, whole eggs and chicken breast.
my cals when dieting are typically around 1200 on my lower days to upwards of 1500 on days i graze on nuts (insert joke here :D)
one or two meals a day. i just eat when hungry. no set schedule.
when im not dieting i eat everything and anything. fasting and training fasted allows me to stay within a month or so of striking distance of a nice bf level for summer.
VP is my homeboy. he thought i was too terse at first. i think he understands me better now.
Glad to read that. I actually eat the same foods accept for the peanut butter, that evil shit is delicious, and I won't stop till I down a full jar ;D
Your build has THAT much quality muscle on 1,500 cals for the most part, so why the fuck do most feel they HAVE to eat 2,500 to 3,000 cals per day? - BRAINWASHED BY THE MAGAZINES.
Low dose, doctor prescribed anavar IS A GAME CHANGER.
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A.M.D in da house,,,,what up big man,,,
yoyoyo njflex.
I agree with a lot of what he said but also disagree with some points, like the anti E thing. Those are necessary to keep estrogen in range. The only way to know is to get estro levels checked out. If they are high, then yea you'll need aromasin. The one key I really agree with is anabolics section.
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yoyoyo njflex.
I agree with a lot of what he said but also disagree with some points, like the anti E thing. Those are necessary to keep estrogen in range. The only way to know is to get estro levels checked out. If they are high, then yea you'll need aromasin. The one key I really agree with is anabolics section.
anti e's is a very personal decision based on ones makeup.
my doses are so low I don't require them to keep my estrogen in check. in fact even at much higher doses I develope no estrogen related sides. some guys will need it at eve. very low dose. it's up to the individual to determine what's best for them.
what I said I didn't use anti e's for is water control which a great many people who don't suffer from estrogen related sides do. I find it dries out my joints and hampers my recovery. when I'm training the way I do even the slightest impairment in my recovery is felt and even as little as .25 of arimidex a day will in me cause this.
and an apology to Van B.
I shouldn't have been so terse with you. I forget that this is a forum for views and that even dissenting or differing opinion will make someone stop and think about what would best apply to themselves.
and at the end of the day even if my experiences don't help them or anyone else's views they might find some value in something someone wrote.
your making a valued effort to generate discussion and I appreciate that. I think what set me off was vince basille not really contributing fuck all other than saying 'your wrong' with nothing to add to either back up why I'm 'wrong' or what his own thoughts on the subject are.
cheers.
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Glad to read that. I actually eat the same foods accept for the peanut butter, that evil shit is delicious, and I won't stop till I down a full jar ;D
Your build has THAT much quality muscle on 1,500 cals for the most part, so why the fuck do most feel they HAVE to eat 2,500 to 3,000 cals per day? - BRAINWASHED BY THE MAGAZINES.
Low dose, doctor prescribed anavar IS A GAME CHANGER.
hey bro there's a caveat here I need to stress to anyone reading your post.
yes that is the result of dieting low cal and holding lean tissue the whole time, in fact I got stronger as I got leaner so I think there's so creedence there for making gains in a low cal environment when protein requirements are met.
BUT the foundation was built on more cals. my biggest I was taking in 2500-3000 a day maybe. but I'm also fueling a lot more lean tissue, and using a lot more anabolics.
all that being said yes I feel people over eat when trying to gain lean tissue and the feedback I'm getting from others who are trying this would suggest exactly that.
cheers.
as an aside, could I get back up to 250lbs at 6% on the 2g of gear and running a low cal diet like this and upping my protein to support the needs of the increase in dose? absolutely I believe I could. you gotta remember tho those 2500-3k cal averaged out over 7 days is supporting the growth of lean tissue on a guy who was 250lb and very lean. that's NOT a lot of cals for a dude that size. now take your bodyweight and look at the cals your eating and ask yourself WHY. why am I eating all of this food for? nobody ever asks why. all they do is just blindly follow what 'supposed' to be done.
fat and carbs don't build lean tissue. protein does. meet your requirements + train + anabolics = growth. a surplus is just not needed imo.
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X2 on the anti es
I Shake my head when I see people like Uncle Loony taking 1mg adex a day on a first cycle.. that shit is nasty.
To figure out if you need anti es and how much if at all, all it takes is a few cheap blood tests. People like to post bro andecotes or even worse research papers done on fifty year old women to "prove" the definitve answer to this shit but all that counts is YOUR results.