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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => History - Stories - and Memories => Topic started by: GoneAway on November 18, 2008, 07:50:38 PM
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Who really should have won?
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Arnold
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Lou was in tremendous shape. Arguably the best of his life, along with the '74 Universe. If there were more shots of Lou, we could make a more knowledgable comparison.
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Arnold was just massive that year. Not as sharp as in 73, but thick with huge arms and chest. Lou looked very sharp there, but a bit lean next to Arnold.
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Lou's condition @ the 1974 O was more than likey Lou's best Condition he had though the 1970s...if Lou had the same size (muscle wise) he brought in 1975, combined with the same condition in 1974...that sort of package as one @ the 74 show would push Arnold close to the brink...unfortunately for Lou he would of still ran into a all-time best (1973 still debatable) Arnold..and Arnold in the shape he brought in ether 1973 or 1974 would still Probally be to much for Lou, given Arnold's experience, confidence, posing, presentation etc...it would still be close.
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.............. :)
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'74 was Lou's best year, and the mediocre condition he was in the following year for the '75 Olympia was inexplicable given that that was his last shot at Schwarzenegger and that is how he'll be remembered on film.
The rivaly between them was a smart Weider creation to make the show more interesting. Lou even at his best was never in the same sentence, in fact i'm quite sure that Schwarzenegger got himself in his best condition in '73-'74 for Oliva, who never showed (understandibly, given the prevailing politics).
The only way Ferrigno would've ever had a chance to approach Schwarzenegger would've been to continue sustained training for several more years-he never had Schwarzenegger's volume, muscle maturity or refinement. Possibly with some real work and guts he could've gotten somewhere close in the mid-late 70s, but he veered off in several other directions, including the Canadian Football League for a minute then the Hulk.
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Arnold was carrying a bit more size in his arms and chest, but Lou really brought some amazing wheels and more than equalled Arnold's condition.
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Arnold was carrying a bit more size in his arms and chest, but Lou really brought some amazing wheels and more than equalled Arnold's condition.
Ferrigno did not have the same sweep in the thighs, and calves were blah. Overall lacking in polish and refinement that comes from years of dedication, plus not nearly the same degree of size relative to his frame.
For Lou to have filled in with more size and muscle maturity would've taken dedication in the years following '75 that he was never willing to put in.
It made sense for Weider to play up the rivalry to sell mags and to groom someone, preferably white, to take Arnold's place.
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Ferrigno did not have the same sweep in the thighs, and calves were blah. Overall lacking in polish and refinement that comes from years of dedication, plus not nearly the same degree of size relative to his frame.
For Lou to have filled in with more size and muscle maturity would've taken dedication in the years following '75 that he was never willing to put in.
It made sense for Weider to play up the rivalry to sell mags and to groom someone, preferably white, to take Arnold's place.
Agreed that his quads were more squarish than Arnold's and his calves were also smaller, yet his cuts were as deep as Arnold's and the sheer quad/quad-ham size was equal, if not better than Arnold's. Explain what you mean by polish and refinement.
I guess Lou wasn't as much of a threat as, say, Sergio in '72, but he compares very well in terms of condition and overall mass. Add another 10lbs of muscle to his upperbody and it would have been a very close call indeed.
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Polish and refinement are related to cuts but it's more subtle. Nuance and muscle maturity borne of years of work refining mass that has already been acquired. Schwarzenegger was essentially the same size through the first half of the 70s, in subsequent contests he mainly focused on carving that diamond. A big difference between good and great is addressing the details.
Ferrigno never got to that. He was still in the mass building stage and should've gone further there and didn't due to the divergence to football then the hulk. Which means that of course he never got to refinement either.
In part what's required is the intelligence to assess oneself objectively then to go about increasing quality and making enhancements re: balance, symmetry and aesthetics, muscle tie-ins. Ferrigno missed all of those: lack of thigh sweep, mediocre calves, lack of biceps peak, average tris, etc. Ferrigno didn't have that intinct and drive for greatness, or the persistence to stay in the game long enough o address his weaknesses while he was at his physical peak in the 70s. Essentially he quit very early, well before his potential peak.
Ferrigno was actually bigger than Schwarzenegger in absolute terms. I was backstage at the 76 Universe, and Ferrigno was a refrigerator, Arnold alot more svelte in person though of course he was also only 210 at that point, prior to gaining some weight back for movies.
What i'm referring to and you should already know by now is something that confuses a surprising number of BB followers-relative size AKA muscle volume AKA measurements relative to frame and bone width. Ferrigno didn't have anywhere near the same volume AKA meat on the frame.
You can see here that his upper body is on the slim side vis-a-vis his legs and in relation to Schwarzenegger. And it wasn't just 10 lb. Different shows but the point is made vividly.
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Polish and refinement are related to cuts but it's more subtle. Nuance and muscle maturity borne of years of work refining mass that has already been acquired. Schwarzenegger was essentially the same size through the first half of the 70s, in subsequent contests he mainly focused on carving that diamond. A big difference between good and great is addressing the details.
Ferrigno never got to that. He was still in the mass building stage and should've gone further there and didn't due to the divergence to football then the hulk. Which means that of course he never got to refinement either.
In part what's required is the intelligence to assess oneself objectively then to go about increasing quality and making enhancements re: balance, symmetry and aesthetics, muscle tie-ins. Ferrigno missed all of those: lack of thigh sweep, mediocre calves, lack of biceps peak, average tris, etc. Ferrigno didn't have that intinct and drive for greatness, or the persistence to stay in the game long enough o address his weaknesses while he was at his physical peak in the 70s. Essentially he quit very early, well before his potential peak.
Ferrigno was actually bigger than Schwarzenegger in absolute terms. I was backstage at the 76 Universe, and Ferrigno was a refrigerator, Arnold alot more svelte in person though of course he was also only 210 at that point, prior to gaining some weight back for movies.
What i'm referring to and you should already know by now is something that confuses a surprising number of BB followers-relative size AKA muscle volume AKA measurements relative to frame and bone width. Ferrigno didn't have anywhere near the same volume AKA meat on the frame.
You can see here that his upper body is on the slim side vis-a-vis his legs and in relation to Schwarzenegger. And it wasn't just 10 lb. Different shows but the point is made vividly.
As I've said, Lou's condition at the '74 Olympia was nothing short of outstanding. He was shredded and arguably harder than Arnold throughout the entire body. Pics in this thread prove that. Lou had a big frame, but his shape (and ability to maximise his shape through posing techniques) lost to Arnold.
I definitely agree that Lou was only realising his potential in '74 and could have taken Zane in later years, though his shape again would have been against him vs. a very aesthetic Zane. The comparison you posted isn't as good as it could be, as Arnold is allowing his chest to look thicker and the sides of his arms to be shown, this making him appear thicker than Lou, who is simply standing there, arms at sides. Arnold IS thicker than Lou, but the comparison is skewed.
Overall, good points and they need no addition. If anyone has any more shots from this contest, particularly of Lou, please post.
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As I've said, Lou's condition at the '74 Olympia was nothing short of outstanding. He was shredded and arguably harder than Arnold throughout the entire body. Pics in this thread prove that. Lou had a big frame, but his shape (and ability to maximise his shape through posing techniques) lost to Arnold.
I definitely agree that Lou was only realising his potential in '74 and could have taken Zane in later years, though his shape again would have been against him vs. a very aesthetic Zane. The comparison you posted isn't as good as it could be, as Arnold is allowing his chest to look thicker and the sides of his arms to be shown, this making him appear thicker than Lou, who is simply standing there, arms at sides. Arnold IS thicker than Lou, but the comparison is skewed.
Overall, good points and they need no addition. If anyone has any more shots from this contest, particularly of Lou, please post.
Never said the comparison was perfect but the difference was actually fairly pronounced, as per those shots.
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I not being an Arnold or Lou fan. With that being said Arnold was the clear winner. Lou looked fantastic....but Arnold was just out and out great and better than Lou this day.
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Arnold takes it. But it shows Lou's unfulfilled potential. Had he gone for it, he would've bagged couple of O's.
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Arnold takes it. But it shows Lou's unfulfilled potential. Had he gone for it, he would've bagged couple of O's.
-Sure, but that was obvious then.
-Not necessarily true that he had more potential, based on both genetics and personal drive. We'll never know.
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As much as I HATE Lou "The Incredible Jerk" Ferrigno, he had a great physique - I'll give him that. But when pertaining to the '74 Olympia between The Hulk and The Oak, I'm giving it to The Oak, hands down! 8)
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I have this issue. In fact, I think I was the one who originally posted the pic. :D
Anyway, the full article can be seen in the June '98 issue of Muscle & Fitness. ;)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=247751.0;attach=286988;image)
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The fact that he went backwards in '75 when he should've really been better than the preceeding year tells me that he didn't have much drive and ambition. Other guys like Oliva and Schwarzenegger were able to significantly improve because they wanted it more, and they possibly had more unrealized potential to tap into.
Whether Ferrigno had any further unrealized potential, hard to say given the fact he never got any better AND didn't give it his all in '75.
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The fact that he went backwards in '75 when he should've really been better than the preceeding year tells me that he didn't have much drive and ambition. Other guys like Oliva and Schwarzenegger were able to significantly improve because they wanted it more, and they possibly had more unrealized potential to tap into.
Whether Ferrigno had any further unrealized potential, hard to say given the fact he never got any better AND didn't give it his all in '75.
Yes, I'm also basing it on the condition he achived in his comeback at the O and masters.
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I have this issue. In fact, I think I was the one who originally posted the pic. :D
Anyway, the full article can be seen in the June '98 issue of Muscle & Fitness. ;)
I have the other pics you posted, too, but felt that was the most fitting.
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;)
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;)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=247751.0;attach=287673;image)
The pic is of Arnold winning the '73 Olympia with Louie winning the '73 Universe the same night. Nothing to do with the '74 Olympia. But good try. ;D
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The pic is of Arnold winning the '73 Olympia with Louie winning the '73 Universe the same night. Nothing to do with the '74 Olympia. But good try. ;D
Do you have anything positive to contribute, such as pics. That pic from the preceeding year nicely reinforces my point actually, as Ferrigno was more cut but not bigger in '74-in both years and in '75 as well he lacked Schwarzenegger's relatiive size/volume, as well as other things, as mentioned. Unlike you i actually followed those shows at the time they happened lol.
Waiting for your pictorial contribution. ;)
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Do you have anything positive to contribute, such as pics. That pic from the preceeding year nicely reinforces my point actually, as Ferrigno was more cut but not bigger in '74-in both years and in '75 as well he lacked Schwarzenegger's size/volume, as mentioned. Unlike you i actually followed those shows at the time they happened lol.
Waiting for your pictorial contribution. ;)
Wow! You are old. :P
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Waiting for your pictorial contribution. ;)
My boy, GoneAway, has pics I posted from the '74 Olympia via the June '98 issue of Muscle & Fitness. Maybe he'll post 'em, dawg. ;)
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Wow! You are old. :P
I saw that desperate personal shit coming a mile away from our troll lol. The funny thing is that i'm not actually old-unlike you i lift, have good genetics, workout hard, have good skin and tan and am attractive. I actually look like a BB and still get looks from women for it, including today on my cycle wearing a sleeveless T, so exactly how old am i haha when was the last time you wore a T and got looks "bollocks". ;D
My boy, GoneAway, has pics I posted from the '74 Olympia via the June '98 issue of Muscle & Fitness. Maybe he'll post 'em, dawg.
Since you don't lift, you have plenty of time to get them instead of whining. And spare us more Schwarzenegger ball-worship, I prefer and present the more interesting "fair and balanced" approach. ;)
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The pic is of Arnold winning the '73 Olympia with Louie winning the '73 Universe the same night. Nothing to do with the '74 Olympia. But good try. ;D
Actually, that's Louie winning the 73 IFBB Mr. America title. The 73 Universe was held in Geneva Switzerland and in that show, if you can find a pic, Louie is in the best shape of his life. Yes, even better than the 74 Universe or 74 Olympia. He's big and shredded. The 74 universe, he wasn't real cut and in the 74 O, he was cut, but lost a lot of size.
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Yes, even better than the 74 Universe or 74 Olympia. He's big and shredded. The 74 universe, he wasn't real cut and in the 74 O, he was cut, but lost a lot of size.
My point exactly-he inexplicably actually regressed over time while some of his peers got better, so it's hard to guess that if he'd stayed in BB during the 70s he'd have necessarily been as good as he could've been.
He was in better shape in some shows, but in none of them did he have the same meat on the frame as Arnold. Should've been in shape in '75 for the film since that's what most remember.
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Actually, that's Louie winning the 73 IFBB Mr. America title. The 73 Universe was held in Geneva Switzerland
Your ignorance shines through, dawg. Arnold and Louie competed on the same stage for different titles. Arnold for the '73 Olympia, and Louie for the Universe. And being that the '73 Olympia was NOT in Switzerland... ::)
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My point exactly-he inexplicably actually regressed over time while some of his peers got better, so it's hard to guess that if he'd stayed in BB during the 70s he'd have necessarily been as good as he could've been.
He was in better shape in some shows, but in none of them did he have the same meat on the frame as Arnold. Should've been in shape in '75 for the film since that's what most remember.
Yeah, although in 77, he was looking pretty good and was going to do the Olympia and a couple of months out, he got the offer for the Hulk. If that hadn't happened, he might possibly have peaked around 78-79 and beaten Zane.
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i lift, have good genetics, workout hard, have good skin and tan and am attractive. I actually look like a BB and still get looks from women for it
LMAO! :D
Typical Getbigger reply!
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Your ignorance shines through, dawg. Arnold and Louie competed on the same stage for different titles. Arnold for the '73 Olympia, and Louie for the Universe. And being that the '73 Olympia was NOT in Switzerland... ::)
You're quite wrong. In fact, my father sat in the judges panel that year so I know what I'm talking about. Do a google next time and you'll see Lou won the 73 Universe in Switzerland. The 73 Olympia was held in New York which Arnold won, and Lou won the IFBB Mr. America on the same stage. Check your facts.
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Since you don't lift, you have plenty of time to get them instead of whining. And spare us more Schwarzenegger ball-worship, I prefer and present the more interesting "fair and balanced" approach. ;)
I know I ride Arnold's nuts like white on rice. ;D
And I lift...well, sorta. :-[
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You're quite wrong. In fact, my father sat in the judges panel that year so I know what I'm talking about. Do a google next time and you'll see Lou won the 73 Universe in Switzerland. The 73 Olympia was held in New York which Arnold won, and Lou won the IFBB Mr. America on the same stage. Check your facts.
That's great. Daddy told you a story. Whoopty-do! ::)
Trust me when I say that the pic Pumpster posted was from Arnold winning the '73 Olympia, and Louie winning the Universe. And fuck Google, yo. Go back to a Muscle Builder/Power issue. ;)
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That's great. Daddy told you a story. Whoopty-do! ::)
Trust me when I say that the pic Pumpster posted was from Arnold winning the '73 Olympia, and Louie winning the Universe. And fuck Google, yo. Go back to a Muscle Builder/Power issue. ;)
You're a jackass., I had the Muscle Builder from 73 and Lou's on the cover winning the 73 Universe in Geneva Switzerland. Obviously you are just joking, you wouldn't really own yourself in reality, this badly.
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You're a jackass., I had the Muscle Builder from 73 and Lou's on the cover winning the 73 Universe in Geneva Switzerland. Obviously you are just joking, you wouldn't really own yourself in reality, this badly.
OK. For argument sake, let's go with you saying that pic of Lou and Arnold was takin' in Switzerland. What show did Arnold win in Switzerland? ::)
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That's great. Daddy told you a story. Whoopty-do! ::)
Trust me when I say that the pic Pumpster posted was from Arnold winning the '73 Olympia, and Louie winning the Universe. And fuck Google, yo. Go back to a Muscle Builder/Power issue. ;)
Keith do we need this troll here? I mean he's adding nothing about BB, cracks only himself up while providing misinformation on the contests LOL
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There's no need for arguing, guys. Simple fact checking on the net and in magazines will prove one thing over another. According to the IFBB's website, the 1973 Mr. Universe was held in Geneva, Switzerland on October 19, 1973. Lou was wearing no. 64 on his trunks.
http://www.ifbb.com/contestresults/mensworld/1973mrU.html
http://www.ifbb.com/contestresults/mensworld/1973congress.html
Unable to find specific dates or pictures from the 1973 IFBB Mr. America, but we can assume that the shot that pumpster posted is from that contest, as Lou didn't enter any other contests that year and neither did Arnold.
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One thing is clear...Arnold and Lou competed on the same stage; on the same night; for different titles. Neither competed TOGETHER for a title in Switzerland. Thanks for chiming in, GoneAway. ;)
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Here are the rest of the pics surrounding the '74 Mr. Olympia, from June '98 issue of Muscle & Fitness. Credit to Pollux for posting them originally.
Can anyone name the bodybuilders on the wall in the first picture? I've got (from top left): Arnold, Bill Pearl, Larry Scott, Steve Reeves, Dale Adrian, Dave Draper, Frank Zane.
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Keith do we need this troll here? I mean he's adding nothing about BB, cracks only himself up while providing misinformation on the contests LOL
He isn't that bad yet. You guys lets keep this board clean. I do my shit talking on the G&O board. This board is mine and I want to keep it clean and how I really am.
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A few closeups of the aforementioned magazine shots.
A rare on-stage comparison between Arnold and Lou coming soon!
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Thanks for posting those pics, GoneAway. ;)
I didn't want to take the pics again and upload them.
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Thanks for posting those pics, GoneAway. ;)
I didn't want to take the pics again and upload them.
No problem. The more info about the '74 Mr. Olympia the better.
As promised, here is a RARE COMPARISON between The Brooklyn Bomber and The Austrian Oak from the 1974 Mr. Olympia!
In Lou's defence, he doesn't appear to be completed with the pose yet.
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I was at the 74 Olympia in NY and it was the most amazing display since 1965 when Larry won it. Arnold was out of this world and Lou looked like a sickly kid beside him. I saw Arnold many times but in 1973 he started experimenting with Cadever glands and for 2 years sprouted 15lbs extra muscle. You can see this in vids taken in 73 where he is truely massive. I knew Arnold in London when I trained at Wag's in the late 60's (I was an accountant at Bowater PLC at that time) but when he took these Cadiver glands he kept his size while keeping his muscularity. He stopped taking the dead body glands in Jan 75 because he heard about their carcenogenic traits by then.
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I was at the 74 Olympia in NY and it was the most amazing display since 1965 when Larry won it. Arnold was out of this world and Lou looked like a sickly kid beside him. I saw Arnold many times but in 1973 he started experimenting with Cadever glands and for 2 years sprouted 15lbs extra muscle. You can see this in vids taken in 73 where he is truely massive. I knew Arnold in London when I trained at Wag's in the late 60's (I was an accountant at Bowater PLC at that time) but when he took these Cadiver glands he kept his size while keeping his muscularity. He stopped taking the dead body glands in Jan 75 because he heard about their carcenogenic traits by then.
I wouldn't call Lou a sickly kid in '74, but maybe his size was understated when witnessing Arnold's domination in person.
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I was at the 74 Olympia in NY and it was the most amazing display since 1965 when Larry won it. Arnold was out of this world and Lou looked like a sickly kid beside him. I saw Arnold many times but in 1973 he started experimenting with Cadever glands and for 2 years sprouted 15lbs extra muscle. You can see this in vids taken in 73 where he is truely massive. I knew Arnold in London when I trained at Wag's in the late 60's (I was an accountant at Bowater PLC at that time) but when he took these Cadiver glands he kept his size while keeping his muscularity. He stopped taking the dead body glands in Jan 75 because he heard about their carcenogenic traits by then.
Excellent. Someone who was actually there, completely different from today where most are looking back decades later. Verifying my posts by the way. Thanks for the insights. He looked incredible in '73 and '74. The only guys comparable in history were Oliva in '72 (but not on the day of the show) and Coleman around '98.
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This is an awesome shot you posted, GoneAway. As much as I hate Lou, I've gotta give him credit where it's due. He looked a lot better at the '74 Olympia than the '75.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=247751.0;attach=288086;image)
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:o
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:o
:o :o :oThat shot of Arnold hitting the single arm shot on stage is rare as in the picture showing his whole body legs as well, thanks for posting Awesome! :o :o :o
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Lou: Bring me the head of Arnold Schwarzenegger!
Arnold: Tough luck, Louie. It's a package deal. ;)
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Lou: Bring me the head of Arnold Schwarzenegger!
Arnold: Tough luck, Louie. It's a package deal. ;)
;)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w142/Flex2000/IMG_1353.jpg)
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;)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w142/Flex2000/IMG_1353.jpg)
I remember that issue from when I was a kid. Wow, you still have that?
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I remember that issue from when I was a kid. Wow, you still have that?
Yeah, along with several others. The "Head of Arnold Schwarzenegger" pic can be seen in Pumping Iron too. ;)
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Arnold was the champion on this day.
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Arnold wasn't going to let Big Louie beat him for his 5th Olympia crown!
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Awesome shots Goneaway :o :o :o couple of rare 74 shots there!
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There were three other contests held this night: AABA Mr. America, IFBB Mr. World, and the IFBB Miss Americana. This thread focuses on the IFBB Mr. Olympia.
Thanks to www.musclememory.com for the following. Edited from Muscle Builder: Vol 16, Num 1, Page 28. March 1975.
The SUPER-BOWL of BODYBUILDING
ABSOLUTELY THE GREATEST PHYSIQUE CHAMPIONSHIPS ANYWHERE EVER!
Arnold Schwarzenegger - Mr. Olympia - Still the best and unbeaten since 1969!
by George Kaye
This year they came not as sharks but as imperial Caesars cheering gladiators in mortal vascular combat. They heard Ferrigno meant to go pose for pose with Schwarzenegger and each fan insisted on adding his personal thumbs up or down to the Battle of Titans. The great giants matched muscle in a modern Roman Colisseum, Madison Square Garden, and when the blood stopped running, they had recorded an epic struggle, unparalleled in bodybuilding history.
The 21,000 spectators who saw Frank Sinatra in Madison Square garden last October 12 made a big mistake. There are many good singers but there's only one Arnold Schwarzenegger. had the mob gone next door to the Felt Forum it would have been initiated into a display infinitely more breathtaking than Ol' Blue Eyes' vocal cords. Arnold, Bob Birdsong, and Bill Grant, plus an all-time record-breaking cast of superstars, put on a show which will live in the memories of 5500 lucky ticket-holders forever.
IFBB MR. OLYMPIA
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER
Under 200-lbs
Franco Columbu
Frank Zane
Over 200-lbs
Arnold Schwarzenegger
Lou Ferrigno
The Garden (of which Felt Forum is a part) has hosted the world's greatest athletes and athletic events for some seventy years. Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, Paavo Nurmi, Muhammed Ali, Wilt Champerlain, Maurice Richard and hundreds of other greats have exhibited their awesome talents on this hallowed showplace. In 1923 Charles Atlas first came to prominence, winning Bernarr McFadden's "World's Most Perfectly Developed Man" contest, and seventeen years later John Grimek copped his initial Mr. America title at the Garden. But I daresay those displays were anaemic matched against the AABA's last Fall. The only comparable madness I can recall that turned the Garden, and in fact all of New York, upside down was the first Ali-Frazier fight and the 1972 Rolling Stones concert. Absolute apoplectic frenzy and audience hysteria on both occasions and the 1974 AABA MR. AMERICA & IFBB MR. WORLD SHOW was the third.
Starting with the last and best first, let me describe a man for whom the dictionary has run dry of superlatives. It may seem absurd to insist that Arnold Schwarzenegger is the best built man who ever lived. We were not around in 200 B.C. or 20,000 B.C. but neither were barbells, food supplements, or supersets. Arnold is truly in a class alone, and when he improves it's like Hank Aaron smashing another homer . . . breaking his own record and stepping further into virgin territory and the outer limits of success Every gain in size or cuts or symmetry escalates Arnold a step higher towards immortality.
This time they tried to stop Schwarz' from winning his fifth Mr. Olympia by introducing under 200 lbs. and over 200 lbs divisions. Lou Ferrigno hoped to be another obstacle.
Fresh from his Mr. Universe repeat victory at Verona, Italy Lou fancied himself ready to snatch Arnie's crown but the big kid went down in flames. Franco Columbu bested Frank Zane for the under 200 sub-title but Schwarzenegger could bury him in an armpit and have room for Zane too. Columbu had the fans agape and Zane, who gets maximum mileage from minimum muscle, is dynamite at only 190 pounds, but Arnold, a solid 237, is a Rolls Royce Cornich or the Tiffany Diamond - Best Of The Best. There is no greater thrill in all muscledom than watching the thunderstruck masses when Arnold flashes his double biceps pose. Stark raving lunacy and hero worship. Deep visceral screams from the seats, wave after wave of them until the knocked-out throng collapses in jubilant exhaustion.
For an instant at pre-judging I thought Ferrigno might surprise but a closer inspection showed the wunderkind's longer arms had nowhere as much meat as Arnold's more compact hams, and at the Most Muscular posedown, Arnie ground Lou's hopes into a squeegie of baby oil. For this year. . .
A quick account of some miscellaneous thrills and chills and then we'll bounce back to the blood and guts. Miss Americana 1974 is a dollie named April Davis with two nifties, Sandra Milstead and Natalie Rebozo runners-up. However, this event featured the female equivalent of Arnold Schwarzenegger in unbelievable Kelly Everts and it is beyond comprehension why she didn't win.
A country & western band, whose name was immemorable [sic], opened the show but little was heard from them thereafter. Also one Mario Manzini - escape artist - performed. He broke away from a few knotted cords, then went into the drum roll number - Houdini-ing it out of a locked straitjacket while handcuffed. I had some doubts about the authenticity of his performance until in a violent effort Manzini tumbled ten feet off the posing dais almost killing himself, and then continued struggling in maniacal frenzy to get free of his bonds. Quite an act.
IFBB President Ben Weider made his traditional opening speech after being introduced by emcee Marty Stater. What Ben lacks in fiery delivery he makes up for in the sincerity of his message. He told the standing-room-only mob how AAU creeps tried to cancel the show in Federal Court only two days before on the alleged basis of AABA misusing the term "Mr. America". The judge, of course, was appalled at the blundering AAU's case and threw it out immediately. Thus the IFBB/AABA soars ever higher as the world's premier bodybuilding organization.
Franco Columbu did a little deadlifting for the folks, working up to 645 for five reps. He weighted 181 pounds and said the heavy bar felt like "sheezecake".
AS PROMISED WE RETURN TO THE BLOOD AND GUTS
The Mr. America and Mr. World events actually began with pre-judging some seven hours before the gates officially opened. Even at 1:00 PM some 2000 fanatics had paid $4 to enter the Forum, an indication of how massive the crowd would be later. Afternoon pre-judging set the tone for all placings. I don't believe any decisions were altered at night. At Mr. Olympia pre-judging I thought Zane might edge past Columbu but he wouldn't match Most Muscular with Franco and that cost him. This was also the very first time master and protege, Schwarzenegger and Ferrigno, banged heads, or should I say bodies. Louie had Arnold breathing heavy but less than Sergio used to. Louie has been bigger, but smoother. he was huge at the LA Mr. International show but lacking cuts. Here the cuts were deep and razored-in but the size diminished and somewhere in that gap lies Arnold's clear-cut win.
An amusing footnote to all this muscular mayhem is that Arnold and the bronzed West Coast gods went to a LaLanne gym for a suntan (lamp style). Leaving Sanata Monica and going to NY for a tan is like a Jew emigrating to Germany in 1938.
Tom Minichiello, producer of the show along with Madison Square Garden corporation, must be applauded for his efforts. To some degree producing an IFBB spectacular is a thankless job. Everyone expects the show to be great, thus praises are few, but little things like failure to get complimentary tickets or the best seats in the house can trigger some unjustified tirades. Congrats Tom on a great job.
This is the ninth major AABA or IFBB contest that I've covered. I always say this or that show was the Greatest, the Biggest or the Best-ever. I hate to do it again but the 1974 Felt Forum spectacular was THE GREATEST. It had the most fans ever to see a muscle panorama anywhere anytime - the most demonstrable [sic], responsive, and vociferous fans, flashbulbs popping like a million Roman candles. On balance this spectacular featured the highest grade of bodies ever seen in America, if not the world, on any given night. It also showcased the long-awaited Schwarzenegger-Ferrigno Posedown. What more could anyone ask? A better show? I doubt it.
The 1975 version will be in Los Angeles, and knowing the tepid Southern California mentality, I don't think it will outpace this extravaganza for sheer excitement, chills up the spine, and grandeur. New York fans know muscle and nobody left disappointed, I can assure you of that.
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I LOVE that caption. Arnold talks shit, but can back it up. 8)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=247751.0;attach=292641;image)
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I LOVE that caption. Arnold talks shit, but can back it up. 8)
Actually i think the comment about never chickening out was made due to defensiveness. Not that much earlier he refused Sergio's challenge to come out of the crowd to compete against him in the more neutral Mr. International contest.
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Actually i think the comment about never chickening out was made due to defensiveness. Not that much earlier he refused Sergio's challenge to come out of the crowd to compete against him in the more neutral Mr. International contest.
I remember that. Apparently, Joe Weider convinced Arnold not to bite Sergio's bait.
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If Lou - arguably at his best of all-time upto this point - couldn't beat Arnold, who at the time could if they competed in this contest?
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If Lou - arguably at his best of all-time upto this point - couldn't beat Arnold, who at the time could if they competed in this contest?
Obviously Segio, in fact i believe it was the expectation that he would there that motivated Schwarzenegger to be in his best shape and then to travel with Columbu and uncle joe to be in the audience of the Mr. International to see what he'd be up against. It's a shame that Weider's contest politics prevented those two from appearing on the same stage.
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It's a shame that Weider's contest politics prevented those two from appearing on the same stage.
Agreed! >:(
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Sergio knew the rules and decided not follow them - simple as that.
All of this can be discussed in the relavent thread, which will be coming soon.
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Sergio knew the rules and decided not follow them - simple as that.
All of this can be discussed in the relavent thread, which will be coming soon.
BS. There was no incentive to enter shows after '71 and '72, knowing they weren't fairly judged. Not to say he'd have won all the time but probably some of the time in fair shows.
Is it a coincidence that Schwarzenegger refused the challenge in a more neutral setting? Arnold might've even won that, but they didn't want to get involved in a show they might've lost.
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Arnold looks unbelievably huge in those 74 pics and his legs are great there.
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Arnold looks unbelievably huge in those 74 pics and his legs are great there.
Although I think '73 was his best development for legs ever, they were pretty massive and diced here, too.
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This was the closest Lou ever came to winning the Mr. Olympia. When your competition is Arnold Schwarzenegger, you have to come at your best.
Was Arnold really expecting Sergio to compete, after '73's debacle? I feel he was more concerned about the package that Lou would bring, after coming off a big Universe win.
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"I was just always impressed
by people who could... be remembered for hundreds of years.
Even like Jesus,
being for thousands of years remembered."
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Was Arnold really expecting Sergio to compete, after '73's debacle? I feel he was more concerned about the package that Lou would bring, after coming off a big Universe win.
I'm only guessing but i'd say it was more likely Oliva, because Schwarz saw Ferrigno in the gym fairly regularly and most likely already knew he was lacking. Ferrigno was either cut and too light or bulkier and smooth, but in either case he lacked quite a bit and was never in the same league. That would've taken a few years more IMO, and i think Schwarzenegger knew that. The rivalry was more of a Joe Weider creation, to sell mags since Arnold at that point had no other serious Weider rival.
As far as '73, there was no debacle, just Oliva justifiably staying away from a preordained Arnold corronation after seeing what happened at the Mr. International as well as '72 and being excluded from the '71 Olympia. No one could blame him for having had enough.
For accuracy's sake, Oliva should've been shown somewhere in the movie version of Pumping Iron. I think his presence would've seriously interfered with the premise of the movie though, because then any logical person would wonder why he wasn't in the Olympia. Unlike the book, the movie was very Weider-centric and distortive of BB.
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Not 100% percent sure, but this Arnold forearm pic would have to be around the 73,74,75 time-frame :o
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I'm only guessing but i'd say it was more likely Oliva, because Schwarz saw Ferrigno in the gym fairly regularly and most likely already knew he was lacking. Ferrigno was either cut and too light or bulkier and smooth, but in either case he lacked quite a bit and was never in the same league. That would've taken a few years more IMO, and i think Schwarzenegger knew that. The rivalry was more of a Joe Weider creation, to sell mags since Arnold at that point had no other serious Weider rival.
Lou was mostly training in Brooklyn in the early to mid 1970s. It wasn't until 1976 that he came over to Gold's Venice and California in general. He may have trained in Venice sparingly during '74, but I doubt it was enough for Arnold to gauge where he would be at for the Olympia.
I believe that Sergio had no intention of coming back to the IFBB in 1974, after again competing or a rival organisation, knowing the consequences. Arnold and Franco went to the '74 IFBB Mr. International to scope Lou out, as they did with Sergio the previous year. Lou was the new challenge in town and Arnold knew it.
It's possible that Joe gave Arnold the wrong advices in the sense of telling him to watch out for Sergio at the Olympia, which obviously would keep Arnold focused up until game day. Lou was the rising star at the time and reminiscent of a younger Arnold, so the threat of both of them competing is probably why Arnold showed up in what many believe to be his all-time best shape.
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Lou was mostly training in Brooklyn in the early to mid 1970s. It wasn't until 1976 that he came over to Gold's Venice and California in general. He may have trained in Venice sparingly during '74, but I doubt it was enough for Arnold to gauge where he would be at for the Olympia.
So i thought but no, he was there earlier, on a regular basis. So much so that by '75 for the movie PI he had to be asked by the director to go back to Brooklyn from Venice in order to create the impression that he was still in Brooklyn.
I believe that Sergio had no intention of coming back to the IFBB in 1974, after again competing or a rival organisation, knowing the consequences. Arnold and Franco went to the '74 IFBB Mr. International to scope Lou out, as they did with Sergio the previous year. Lou was the new challenge in town and Arnold knew it.
Just a guess though, whereas they were actually in the audience of the Mr. International to see Oliva. Most likely to see what he looked like prior to the Olympia. And if that interest was so for one year it was true for the next as well.
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So i thought but no, he was there earlier, on a regular basis. So much so that by '75 for the movie PI he had to be asked by the director to go back to Brooklyn from Venice in order to create the impression that he was still in Brooklyn.
Lou says that he "couldn't train in California" for P.I., which I assume was for the movie as you said. But, I've not seen a single photo of Lou in Gold's Venice from the early to mid 1970s, nor heard any stories of Lou training there prior to 1976.
Just a guess though, whereas they were actually in the audience of the Mr. International to see Oliva. Most likely to see what he looked like prior to the Olympia. And if that interest was so for one year it was true for the next as well.
Unfortunately, I can't find any information on the 1974 WBBG Mr. International, which Sergio entered and effectively DQed himself from the Olympia, but I doubt Arnold was there in the audience, considering it was for a rival organisation. If Sergio was to compete, there would be no point of Arnold attending to check out Sergio, as it's an easy DQ. I guess we don't know without actual coverage of some sort.
He and Franco guestposed at the 1974 IFBB Mr. International, which Lou won, so it was a great time to scope out Lou if any. Lou was being talked about as the next poster-boy for the IFBB, so it's little wonder why Arnold wanted to prove himself as the top dog.
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Lou says that he "couldn't train in California" for P.I., which I assume was for the movie as you said. But, I've not seen a single photo of Lou in Gold's Venice from the early to mid 1970s, nor heard any stories of Lou training there prior to 1976.
He's said clearly he said he wasn't thrilled with having to stop training at Gold's in '75 in order to travel back to Brooklyn and create the impression that he was still there training.
Sergio didn't DQ himself from the Olympia because of the Mr. International. Rather, he was there because he wanted an alternative to the Olympia. Quite understandable given the usual Weider hijinks. The Weider guys were at either the '73 or '74 International show in order to see his condition. Joe wouldn't let Arnold come out of the audience to compete in a show he could've lost, bottom line.
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Sergio didn't DQ himself from the Olympia because of the Mr. International. Rather, he was there because he wanted an alternative to the Olympia. Quite understandable given the usual Weider hijinks. The Weider guys were at either the '73 or '74 International show in order to see his condition. Joe wouldn't let Arnold come out of the audience to compete in a show he could've lost, bottom line.
Though an alternative was an option - as it was upto the Weider's whether they chose to enfore any rule - it was the nail in the coffin for Sergio, I feel; regardless of if he even planned to compete at the Olympia. In Sergio's mind, he was done with the IFBB and had a better chance of winning without Arnold around.
Arnold ready for battle... IN battle... and enjoying the spoils of victory!
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That FDB in the middle is another rare 74 shot...his quads when fully flexed in 74 were big and shreaded great picture!
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Yes, Arnold was a sight to behold. Even standing relaxed he was full and ripped everywhere.
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Yes, Arnold was a sight to behold. Even standing relaxed he was full and ripped everywhere.
Damn, that is a good pic of Arnold.
In the above shot, Zane smokes Franco.
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For anyone curious; yes, that is Bruno Sammartino in the judging panel.
Arnold hits a single biceps pose and Lou tries to counteract. Arnold fires back in rapid succession with a front double biceps pose, blowing Lou out of the water. The Oak turns around to hit a back double biceps, but before he does that, he calls to Lou and says "I won!" Lou says, "Congratulations, Arnold!"
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;) ;) ;) 1973-74 ;) ;) ;)
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;) ;) ;) 1973-74 ;) ;) ;)
Speechless... Fantastic shot of Arnold. He looks literally rock hard and untouchable. Lou was simply a monster, but he really did lose alot of size in just one short year. Both are from the 1974 Mr. Olympia.
Thanks, Johnny.
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lou was one of the few who competed against arnold at his all time best . arnold wins . but lou was a stronger man. 600 pounds squats and 100 pounds dumbells curls . .
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lou was one of the few who competed against arnold at his all time best . arnold wins . but lou was a stronger man. 600 pounds squats and 100 pounds dumbells curls . .
So what, if that was important Columbu beat both of them.
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lou was one of the few who competed against arnold at his all time best . arnold wins . but lou was a stronger man. 600 pounds squats and 100 pounds dumbells curls . .
Ahhhhhhhhh....any pictures to back at that comment, after all they were competitive BBers and not competitive Powerlifters, when you jump up on stage in a BB competition the judges don,t take into consideration yr strength levels, otherwise Franco would of won all the Olympias back then in the 1970s.
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franco columbu strength was not on par with the strength of lou ferrigno . franco was beaten by lou in the strongman contest in 1977 . .
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ok louie didnt have shit on arny then but the louie in the 80's was awesome when he was in comp stage so much mass but still had the old school mentality for condition
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franco columbu strength was not on par with the strength of lou ferrigno . franco was beaten by lou in the strongman contest in 1977 . .
Columbu was much much stronger for his bodyweight and seems to have regularly lifted higher weights in the gym. I've never seen any huge numbers posted in the mags over the years about Ferrigno.
Bringing up the WSM is misleading-Ferrigno finished just ahead of Columbu in the 1977 WSM in the year Columbu had the horrible accident while carrying the refrigerator. The event is different now because of that accident. Columbu never fully recovered from that. Without the accident i bet Columbu would've been ahead of Ferrigno.
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no way could franco beat lou lou was a bigger man .and aklso a stronger man . i suspect many people on the panel are average size people.
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Franco pound for pound was stronger than most guys, even Lou. However strength can be measured in many ways. Franco had short limbs thus having a much shorter range of motion. Think of how much more the bar had to travel for Lou in either the bench press or squat vs. Franco.
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maybe but lou couds bench 550 pounds he stated that in many mag when questioned . he could deadlift more than columbu too . futhermore a tall man have some advantage in a strongman contest. a good big man is better than a good small man.the grip strength of lou was great too.
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I remember watching Franco doing bent over rows. He had no shirt on and his lats when he bent over were just unreal. It was an awesome sight for a 21 year old to see. I remember he would give us free massages as he was studying to be a chiropractor. I lifted with Lou a couple times. I did curls with him. It was so cool back then cause you just ask if you could work in and most of the time the answer was yes. He would help me do one or two more reps. I was just a kid compared to almost everyone there. It was great.
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no way could franco beat lou lou was a bigger man .and aklso a stronger man . i suspect many people on the panel are average size people.
You're just guessing, based on the size differential.
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if lou has not competed in 1974 against the oak who would have . arnold would have been alone there or what . crazy situation . was oliva banned from ifbb .
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Damn, that is a good pic of Arnold.
In the above shot, Zane smokes Franco.
I agree. I thought the same thing.
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I remember watching Franco doing bent over rows. He had no shirt on and his lats when he bent over were just unreal. It was an awesome sight for a 21 year old to see. I remember he would give us free massages as he was studying to be a chiropractor. I lifted with Lou a couple times. I did curls with him. It was so cool back then cause you just ask if you could work in and most of the time the answer was yes. He would help me do one or two more reps. I was just a kid compared to almost everyone there. It was great.
compare their individual performances in the first wsm contest franco's body betrayed him.
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th oak had a bit of a wide waist though . no matter good he was . and lean forearms .
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th oak had a bit of a wide waist though . no matter good he was . and lean forearms .
Yes, wider than Lou but Oak still looked better than Lou. It was actually a very close contest.
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lou was still growing up . arnold was a seasoned bodybuilder . but if not lou who would have been there against the oak ..
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lou was still growing up . arnold was a seasoned bodybuilder . but if not lou who would have been there against the oak ..
The only person on the face of the planet who could have defeated Arnold was Sergio... but after '72, the IFBB had made sure he would never compete against Arnold again. We can all figure out why.
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why again no black winner . kind of strange .