In 1970 the Medicare Trustee Report predicted insolvency in .....

[Straw Man]

1972

http://www.nasi.org/research/2012/medicare-finances-findings-2012-trustees-report?gclid=CPbn6_Hx47ECFUUZQgodyCAAUQ

According to the 2012 Trustees Report, expenditures from Medicare’s HI Trust Fund exceeded revenues by $27.7 billion in 2011. Without a policy change that would increase revenues or reduce expenditures, the accumulated surplus in the HI Trust Fund will be depleted by 2024, the same as last year’s projection; after that, the HI Trust Fund would rely on the annual revenues from Medicare payroll taxes, which are projected to cover 87 percent of annual expenditures.

[Soul Crusher]

1972

http://www.nasi.org/research/2012/medicare-finances-findings-2012-trustees-report?gclid=CPbn6_Hx47ECFUUZQgodyCAAUQ

It is insolvent now. 

[howardroark]

The real question that needs to be answered is "how did Medicare evade insolvency?"

Here's how:

In 1970, when the Medicare Trustees projected the fund would be exhausted in 1972, Congress reduced payments to providers, primarily physicians and hospitals. The same thing happened in 1997, when the trustees projected the funds would run out in 2001. Then, Congress quickly passed the Balanced Budget Amendment, which again cut into doctors’ reimbursements.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/reports-of-medicares-death-are-greatly-exaggerated/2012/04/23/gIQA0kBobT_blog.html

In short, they cut spending to avoid insolvency.

[Straw Man]

The real question that needs to be answered is "how did Medicare evade insolvency?"

Here's how:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/reports-of-medicares-death-are-greatly-exaggerated/2012/04/23/gIQA0kBobT_blog.html

In short, they cut spending to avoid insolvency.

not only that but there revenues increase or decrease depending on the economy

in 1999 the target year was 2015 and in 2000 it was 2025

there is no need to scrap the system and give seniors a bunch of voucher to buy private insurance

my feeling is that plan is nothing more than a excuse to push an ideology than a required solution to a funding problem

[howardroark]

not only that but there revenues increase or decrease depending on the economy

in 1999 the target year was 2015 and in 2000 it was 2025

there is no need to scrap the system and give seniors a bunch of voucher to buy private insurance

my feeling is that plan is nothing more than a excuse to push an ideology than a required solution to a funding problem

Taxing the young and poor in order to redistribute it to the old and rich is fundamentally immoral. The Ryan Plan doesn't go far enough. Both Medicare and Social Security ought to be phased out.

[Straw Man]

Taxing the young and poor in order to redistribute it to the old and rich is fundamentally immoral. The Ryan Plan doesn't go far enough. Both Medicare and Social Security ought to be phased out.

Let's hope Romney and Ryan run on that idea

It's funny how the fund was supposed to have gone insolvent in 1972 and yet its still fine at this moment

the "insolvency" thing changes every year and can be tweaked to keep it in the black by altering spending, revenue and due to the year to year flucuations in the economy

No need to kill the entire thing or change how it works ......unles of course that is your idealogical plan all along which it obviously is for some people

[240 is Back]

It is insolvent now. 

So despite insolvency, they can still pay their obligations?  Amazing.

[howardroark]

Let's hope Romney and Ryan run on that idea

It's funny how the fund was supposed to have gone insolvent in 1972 and yet its still fine at this moment

the "insolvency" thing changes every year and can be tweaked to keep it in the black by altering spending, revenue and due to the year to year flucuations in the economy

No need to kill the entire thing or change how it works ......unles of course that is your idealogical plan all along which it obviously is for some people

Two things:
1. Is it moral to redistribute wealth from the poor to the rich?
2. Since Medicare is on the path to insolvency now, and since Medicare was saved before by tweaking it, why not again "tweak" it to make the program solvent? A tweak like maybe the one proposed by Romney/Ryan.

[Straw Man]

Two things:
1. Is it moral to redistribute wealth from the poor to the rich?
2. Since Medicare is on the path to insolvency now, and since Medicare was saved before by tweaking it, why not again "tweak" it to make the program solvent? A tweak like maybe the one proposed by Romney/Ryan.

they, like you, are talking about changing it for purely ideological reasons and the insolvency argument is a convenient  excuse to hide their real agenda

I wish they would at least be honest in their motivation as you seem to be on this subject

I would at least give them credit for honesty

[howardroark]

they, like you, are talking about changing it for purely ideological reasons and the insolvency argument is a convenient  excuse to hide their real agenda

I wish they would at least be honest in their motivation as you seem to be on this subject

I would at least give them credit for honesty

First of all, answer my question: is it moral to redistribute wealth from the poor to the rich, as Social Security and Medicare do?

Secondly, where is the proof backing up your statements? Their plan saves Medicare and Social Security from bankruptcy, the same as previous cuts have saved this Big Government mess. If they were ideologically motivated, then they would propose actually phasing out the program or actually shrinking government, not reducing the growth of government to 3% per the Ryan Plan (which is still greater than the rate of growth for the economy - making them statist progressives like you).

[Straw Man]

First of all, answer my question: is it moral to redistribute wealth from the poor to the rich, as Social Security and Medicare do?

Secondly, where is the proof backing up your statements? Their plan saves Medicare and Social Security from bankruptcy, the same as previous cuts have saved this Big Government mess. If they were ideologically motivated, then they would propose actually phasing out the program or actually shrinking government, not reducing the growth of government to 3% per the Ryan Plan (which is still greater than the rate of growth for the economy - making them statist progressives like you).

I assume your intent is to characterize Medicaire as a redistribution of wealth but I see no difference than any other method where the government collects money and provides service

I obviously approve of medicare in it's present form

medicare is available to everyone, rich and poor

I also don't see any proof that medicare has a problem that needs to be fixed (or can only be fixed) by changing it into a privatized voucher system

[howardroark]

I assume your intent is to characterize Medicaire as a redistribution of wealth but I see no difference than any other method where the government collects money and provides service

I obviously approve of medicare in it's present form

medicare is available to everyone, rich and poor

This isn't very difficult to comprehend: older age groups that are wealthier benefit from SS/Medicare while younger age groups that are poorer are taxed to pay for these programs.

I also don't see any proof that medicare has a problem that needs to be fixed (or can only be fixed) by changing it into a privatized voucher system

$50-$100bn wasted due to fraud every year and massive unfunded obligations.

[GigantorX]

This isn't very difficult to comprehend: older age groups that are wealthier benefit from SS/Medicare while younger age groups that are poorer are taxed to pay for these programs.

$50-$100bn wasted due to fraud every year and massive unfunded obligations.

The govt. will keep cutting the reimbursements etc to make up for funding shortfalls and the like until the Dr's will be doing the procedures for practically free.

[Soul Crusher]

The govt. will keep cutting the reimbursements etc to make up for funding shortfalls and the like until the Dr's will be doing the procedures for practically free.

Remember when IBM offered to Obama twice to assist in getting this solved to the tune of 90 billion a year at no cost at all and he rejected it? 

[Straw Man]

This isn't very difficult to comprehend: older age groups that are wealthier benefit from SS/Medicare while younger age groups that are poorer are taxed to pay for these programs.

$50-$100bn wasted due to fraud every year and massive unfunded obligations.

even easier to understand - everyone pays into the system and when everyone inevitably gets old they get access to the benefits

 

[Soul Crusher]

even easier to understand - everyone pays into the system and when everyone inevitably gets old they get access to the benefits

 

  


How absurd and devoid of reality.   

www.usdebtclock.org

[Kazan]

even easier to understand - everyone pays into the system and when everyone inevitably gets old they get access to the benefits

 

Yeah right, like every other government program, the whole premise is based on the fact that the younger generation of works pays for the older generation. Most people would call that a ponzi scheme, but when the government does it, it's Social Security or Medicare

[Straw Man]

 


How absurd and devoid of reality.   

www.usdebtclock.org

what part of my statement is not true

[Straw Man]

Yeah right, like every other government program, the whole premise is based on the fact that the younger generation of works pays for the older generation. Most people would call that a ponzi scheme, but when the government does it, it's Social Security or Medicare

and people who actually understood it would call it an insurance program

btw - once older people start receiving social security they continue to pay medicare premium from their monthly social security chack and if they continue to work, which many do, they also continue to pay into the system

[Straw Man]

The govt. will keep cutting the reimbursements etc to make up for funding shortfalls and the like until the Dr's will be doing the procedures for practically free.

Or they can simply opt out.  They can make the decision as to whether they can make more money by charging fewer patients higher fees (and having to spending money to attract those patients) or they can choose to participate and have a continuous flow of business, albeit at a lower price point per individual patient

 

[Kazan]

and people who actually understood it would call it an insurance program

btw - once older people start receiving social security they continue to pay medicare premium from their monthly social security chack and if they continue to work, which many do, they also continue to pay into the system

No I would call it a ponzi scheme, since the money payed into these things goes into the general fund and is spent on other shit. But you keep believing what the dumbass's in DC tell you.

[Straw Man]

No I would call it a ponzi scheme, since the money payed into these things goes into the general fund and is spent on other shit. But you keep believing what the dumbass's in DC tell you.

so the entire government is a ponzie scheme as are all insurance programs

[Kazan]

so the entire government is a ponzie scheme as are all insurance programs

Yep

[Straw Man]

Yep

I kind of figure that's what you were getting

Someone should inform the military that they are participating in a ponzi scheme and they can all g home

I assume you've staked out the moral high ground and refused to pay your taxes so as not to perpetuate this ponzi scheme

[howardroark]

even easier to understand - everyone pays into the system and when everyone inevitably gets old they get access to the benefits

 

A little harder to understand, which is probably why a moron such as yourself doesn't get it: the program is going to be bankrupt by the time you and I are old enough to collect benefits. The unfunded obligations of Medicare/SS exceed world GDP. Both programs discourage saving, which in turn slows economic growth. Medicare wastes $100bn annually in fraud. The costs are growing out of control. Poor people tend to die younger, thus making the program a rip-off that redistributes wealth from the poor to the rich.

But don't let any of those facts affect your extreme partisanship.