GH & Slin PWO

[abc123]

OK, I'm getting mixed opinions on taking Slin and HGH PWO for growth.  Many do it and say that it's the best way to add LBM fast.  Others (including a pro that I trust 100%) say to never take GH and Slin together because they are counter-regulatory hormones. What gives?  Which is it?

[Van_Bilderass]

My hunch is that the timing of the GH doesn't matter much since, to my understanding, it's a long acting hormone. Consider this: the GH takes 2-4 hours to peak after an injection. The IGF-1 increase which GH causes peaks 24 hours (!) after the injection and after using GH for a while it can stay elevated for a couple of weeks after stopping GH use. So why is it important to separate the GH and insulin by an hour or whatever is recommended? If you use Humalog they wont peak at the same time anyway if you take them both at the same time.

I don't know if it's a bad idea to have them both peak at the same time. Isn't insulin required for GH to exert its anabolic effects? A guy I'm helping is taking GH a hour before a workout with Humalog immediately before and he's been getting great results. My thought with this is that they both be high during/after the workout.

[abc123]

My hunch is that the timing of the GH doesn't matter much since, to my understanding, it's a long acting hormone. Consider this: the GH takes 2-4 hours to peak after an injection. The IGF-1 increase which GH causes peaks 24 hours (!) after the injection and after using GH for a while it can stay elevated for a couple of weeks after stopping GH use. So why is it important to separate the GH and insulin by an hour or whatever is recommended? If you use Humalog they wont peak at the same time anyway if you take them both at the same time.

I don't know if it's a bad idea to have them both peak at the same time. Isn't insulin required for GH to exert its anabolic effects? A guy I'm helping is taking GH a hour before a workout with Humalog immediately before and he's been getting great results. My thought with this is that they both be high during/after the workout.

Thanks for the response. Everything you wrote makes sense. 

As for the guy you are training.  You said he's getting great results.  Can you isolate the effect of adding the GH to the mix?  Did he take Humalog pre-workout before or did he add both the GH and Humalog at the same time.  Is there a chance that his results are due to the preworkout Humalog alone?

I know that Dorian took his GH spread out throughout the day on an empty stomach.  That's how I've been advised to use it.  But, so many guys rave about the results they are getting using GH PWO; I'm very curious, especially given the contradictory opinions.

[duncanlukas]

take 10 ius gh/slin pwo together in the same syringe...DO IT NOW!!! no but serioously this is the best combo if u want to get huge fast.

[abc123]

How safe or unsafe is it?

[Slintowin4424]

OK, I'm getting mixed opinions on taking Slin and HGH PWO for growth.  Many do it and say that it's the best way to add LBM fast.  Others (including a pro that I trust 100%) say to never take GH and Slin together because they are counter-regulatory hormones. What gives?  Which is it?

I hope you dont believe this sense unless your a diabetic has no bearing on either.  Infact it can help to take insulin to release your pancreas from undue strees and keep your hemaglobin down.

[Vet]

I hope you dont believe this sense unless your a diabetic has no bearing on either.  Infact it can help to take insulin to release your pancreas from undue strees and keep your hemaglobin down.

UH?   

GH is a counterregulatory hormone to insulin.  Hyperinsulinism (causing hypoglycemia) will cause GH secretion.  Injecting exogenous insulin to the point of hypoglycemia will cause secretion of endogenous GH.   This endogenous GH will inhibit the ability of insulin to stimulate uptake of glucose in peripheral tissues and enhance glucose synthesis in the liver, thus helping to increase blood glucose.  This is also why you see a pardoxical increase in endogenous insulin after injecting exogenous growth hormone.   The body is again trying to regulate blood glucose levels at all costs. 

Taking exogenous insulin has absolutely NO PROVEN "release of stress" effects on the pancreas that I'm aware of.  This is an internet bullshit rumor that seems to be gaining in popularity.  If anything exogenous insulin in a nondiabetic may actually increase pancreatic Islet cell stress by stimulating insulin secretion because of counterregulatory hormones secreted by the body causing insulin insensitivity.

You want to decrease stress on your pancreas?  DON'T EAT SHIT PROCESSED HIGH SUGAR, HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP FOOD!!!    Thats the simplest way to decrease stress on your pancreas. 


And decreasing hemoglobin?  What are you talking about with that?  Did you mean hemoglobin A1C and have a typo?  A nondiabetic will have no appreciable change in hemoglobin A1C values after injection of exogenous insulin because of insulin counterregulatory hormones.  Its a finely tuned balance that should be functioning normally in a nondiabetic. 

[abc123]

So Vet, what is your take on why taking insulin and GH post workout seems to work so well? 

You can tell from my prior post that the pro I spoke with agrees that you shouldn't mix the two hormones.  He advocates taking it througout the day on an empty stomach.

I can't figure out why combining the two hormones would work so well.  And, nobody has given me a reasonable answer. 

Why would combining the two work any better than just taking GH throughout the day and taking insulin PWO?

[Van_Bilderass]

As for the guy you are training.  You said he's getting great results.  Can you isolate the effect of adding the GH to the mix?  Did he take Humalog pre-workout before or did he add both the GH and Humalog at the same time.  Is there a chance that his results are due to the preworkout Humalog alone?

No can't isolate it. He has used insulin before but used to take post workout and growth he used to take at bedtime. I bet most of the results are due to the insulin. Like I said I suspect the timing of the GH doesn't matter much but we are trying different things.

[Van_Bilderass]

Taking exogenous insulin has absolutely NO PROVEN "release of stress" effects on the pancreas that I'm aware of.  This is an internet bullshit rumor that seems to be gaining in popularity.  If anything exogenous insulin in a nondiabetic may actually increase pancreatic Islet cell stress by stimulating insulin secretion because of counterregulatory hormones secreted by the body causing insulin insensitivity.

Post this on Milos' thread. He has made this claim many times before, I think this "rumor" comes from him to a large part.

If your blood glucose is high due to GH use don't you think it's a good idea to use insulin then? You are essentially type 2 diabetic and they use insulin to protect the pancreas in type 2 diabetics nowadays.

[abc123]

Milos does believe something similar to this.  He has told me before that insuling usage can help prevent insulin resistant people from developing type 2 diabetes.

I will say this. I always had problems with my insulin resistance and hypoglycemia until he taught me to use Humalog.  Now I NEVER have problems and I feel 100% better.

One last question about GH...  I now understand how to use GH and Slin properly for growth.  But, as many of you know I always use Humalog preworkout when dieting as well as well as when trying to lean bulk. 

Is it a waste to use 8 IU of GH (US Pharma) spread throughout the day when dieting?   I know some guys drop it down when dieting and ramp back up when trying to grow.