Author Topic: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law  (Read 10219 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #100 on: April 28, 2010, 01:41:22 PM »
These dirtbags are breaking and entering our country and committing all sorts of theft and people excuse this shit?  

WTF?

Try this garbage anywhere else and you get booted immediately and a jail cell, if you are lucky.  

Soul Crusher

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #101 on: April 28, 2010, 01:44:11 PM »
Your concerns are greatly unfounded unless you are a an illegal alien who has already committed a crime. 

Skip8282

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #102 on: April 28, 2010, 01:48:11 PM »
just out of curiosity, what can you get treatment for in the emergency room and what can't you get treatment for?  For example, Cancer, we all know that many of us end up with cancer.  If you go into the emergency room with cancer will you get treatment needed for cancer?


To my knowledge, only emergency medical treatment would be covered.  So I apologize if my other post is misleading and I'll rephrase to say:

If they want emergency medical care, all they have to do is show up at the emergency room.

IDK all the procedures covered under "emergency" though.
Now, there may be some states that provide for follow-up care of illegals, IDK.


As to your other question, yes I think you brought up a good point and I suppose there will be room for abuse by the cops if they can find it.  I guess that's true of just about any law though and just like other laws, we need to be vigilant of that type of abuse.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #103 on: April 28, 2010, 01:48:58 PM »
Do I or do I not have legit concerns about this law? Please see my posts in this thread.  Do I have legit concerns or no?  If not why?

loco

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #104 on: April 28, 2010, 01:51:44 PM »

If they want medical care, all they have to do is show up at the emergency room.

There's a loophole in SSI allowing them to collect.

The Supreme Court has ruled that illegal alien children may not be turned away from schools.

Here's a GAO report detailing the numerous benefits illegals can and do get.

http://archive.gao.gov/d45t15/150100.pdf

Educate yourself...

 ::)

From your own article, p5:

"Illegal aliens are not eligible for Food Stamps, Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), Supplemental Security Income (SSI), Unemployment Compensation, employment training under the Job Training Partnership Act, and financial assistance for higher education.  Under the Medicaid program, they are eligible for emergency services only."

As for the other benefits you mentioned for illegal immigrants children, if there are no jobs for the parents in the US, the parents will voluntarily leave.  If the parents voluntarily leave, they will take their children with them.

Educate yourself...

Skip8282

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #105 on: April 28, 2010, 01:56:12 PM »
::)

From your own article, p5:

"Illegal aliens are not eligible for Food Stamps, Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), Supplemental Security Income (SSI), Unemployment Compensation, employment training under the Job Training Partnership Act, and financial assistance for higher education.  Under the Medicaid program, they are eligible for emergency services only."

As for the other benefits you mentioned for illegal immigrants children, if there are no jobs for the parents in the US, the parents will voluntarily leave.  If the parents voluntarily leave, they will take their children with them.

Educate yourself...


That's your counter argument?  Pointing out the stuff they don't qualify for?

HAHAHA...what are you 12?

You're claim was that they don't get any benefits unless they're a woman with an anchor baby.  The study provides you with numerous benefits ALL illegals receive.

Educate yourself...

loco

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #106 on: April 28, 2010, 01:59:55 PM »

That's your counter argument?  Pointing out the stuff they don't qualify for?

HAHAHA...what are you 12?

You're claim was that they don't get any benefits unless they're a woman with an anchor baby.  The study provides you with numerous benefits ALL illegals receive.

Educate yourself...

I said no jobs, no illegal immigrants.  To which 333386 responded by bringing up welfare benefits to illegals as a reason for them to stay even if there are no jobs for them.

Explain to me how an illegal immigrant without a job can stay in the US unless the illegal immigrant is a woman with children born in the US.

loco

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #107 on: April 28, 2010, 02:01:27 PM »
Your concerns are greatly unfounded unless you are a an illegal alien who has already committed a crime. 

Not if you are a Latino American citizen.

Hugo's concerns are legit that this law opens the door for a police state.  Soon all American citizens will have to carry papers on them at all times.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #108 on: April 28, 2010, 02:04:05 PM »

To my knowledge, only emergency medical treatment would be covered.  So I apologize if my other post is misleading and I'll rephrase to say:

If they want emergency medical care, all they have to do is show up at the emergency room.

IDK all the procedures covered under "emergency" though.
Now, there may be some states that provide for follow-up care of illegals, IDK.


As to your other question, yes I think you brought up a good point and I suppose there will be room for abuse by the cops if they can find it.  I guess that's true of just about any law though and just like other laws, we need to be vigilant of that type of abuse.
Ok, thanks, I was a bit confused because so many have been saying that everyone can get the same medical by just going to the emergency room so I was starting to wonder, like really? lol...  I think I even heard it on Fox a few times.


As for the last part.  In my lifetime, I've never seen anything go back after it's been established.  I've only seen the new established and built on.  At some point I started to realize that if that's the case, then I must look at everything new based on where they would or could take it next in the near future.  It's not so much a case of abuse.  Abuse is the misuse of a current law.  Where my concerns lay are with what the new law lays a foundation for....  In my silly 2017 view, I mock where it might go.  But trust me, if you remember this thread in 2017, it actually might not sound so silly.  That's because I've watched them build and pile on and build and pile on for my whole life.  It's not just with this one law.  It's with so many federal, state and local.  I know I'm supposed to be the liberal of the board, but sometimes I wonder if I'm not actually the most concervative person here. lol

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #109 on: April 28, 2010, 02:09:20 PM »
Not if you are a Latino American citizen.

Hugo's concerns are legit that this law opens the door for a police state.  Soon all American citizens will have to carry papers on them at all times.
Is this not cool, we're totally in agreement for once :D  I never thought I would here you say "Hugo's concerns are legit" lololol....   :D

Soul Crusher

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #110 on: April 28, 2010, 02:10:18 PM »
Not if you are a Latino American citizen.

Hugo's concerns are legit that this law opens the door for a police state.  Soon all American citizens will have to carry papers on them at all times.

You get pulled over by the cops:  "License and registration please"

You go buy a gun:  "Drivers license and permit please?"

You go tot he hospital:  "Insurance info please?"  

You go to cash a check:  "Drivers license please"  




loco

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #111 on: April 28, 2010, 02:13:45 PM »
You get pulled over by the cops:  "License and registration please"

You go buy a gun:  "Drivers license and permit please?"

You go tot he hospital:  "Insurance info please?"  

You go to cash a check:  "Drivers license please"  

Soon...

...You get pulled over by the cops:  "Birth certificate, Naturalization certificate or US passport please"

loco

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #112 on: April 28, 2010, 02:15:11 PM »
Is this not cool, we're totally in agreement for once :D  I never thought I would here you say "Hugo's concerns are legit" lololol....   :D

It is cool! 

But I think you and I might be in agreement on more issues than you might think.   :)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #113 on: April 28, 2010, 02:17:27 PM »
Soon...

...You get pulled over by the cops:  "Birth certificate, Naturalization certificate or US passport please"

I wish the SS would say that to our president already.   ;D

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #114 on: April 28, 2010, 02:20:03 PM »
You get pulled over by the cops:  "License and registration please"

You go buy a gun:  "Drivers license and permit please?"

You go tot he hospital:  "Insurance info please?"  

You go to cash a check:  "Drivers license please"  




That's not the same.  It's not synonymous with what we're talking about. 

You get pulled over by the cops: There was a reason, speeding, traffic violation, problem with your car etc.
Now, you can get pulled over based on how you look.  Big fucking difference.

Your last three examples are shit because they're not even subject to the authorities so they really don't apply to the situation we're talking about do they.....

Skip8282

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #115 on: April 28, 2010, 02:20:47 PM »


Explain to me how an illegal immigrant without a job can stay in the US unless the illegal immigrant is a woman with children born in the US.


If you would stop cherry-picking the study for what you want to find, you would see, illegals can get many benefits, including benefits for which they may not even be eligible.  

For example: "Illegal aliens may also be receiving public housing assistance, even though by law they are not eligible for these benefits. The alien restrictions in the law are not being applied because the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) has not finalized
a regulation on alien eligibility."



Of course there are many programs that are strict and they can't access, but there a sufficient number that they can and do.

And we can stop pretending like they don't steal other people's identities...

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #116 on: April 28, 2010, 02:26:02 PM »
It is cool! 

But I think you and I might be in agreement on more issues than you might think.   :)
yea, I think so too. :)

Skip8282

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #117 on: April 28, 2010, 02:27:05 PM »
I wish the SS would say that to our president already.   ;D


lol...that was good one.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2010, 02:30:51 PM »
would I be better off creating a gimmick to ask some of the questions I ask?  Is it getting in the way that I'm a mod? 

Skip8282

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #119 on: April 28, 2010, 02:34:23 PM »

Explain to me how an illegal immigrant without a job can stay in the US unless the illegal immigrant is a woman with children born in the US.

And it continues...


This Backgrounder examines illegal immigration-related document fraud and identity theft that is committed primarily for the purpose of employment. It debunks three common misconceptions: illegal aliens are “undocumented;” the transgressions committed by illegal aliens to obtain jobs are minor; and illegal-alien document fraud and identity theft are victimless crimes. It discusses how some community leaders rationalize these crimes, contributing to a deterioration of the respect for laws in our nation, and presents a variety of remedies, including more widespread electronic verification of work status (E-Verify and the Social Security Number Verification Service) and immigrant outreach programs to explain the ramifications and risks of document fraud and identity theft.

The findings include:

Illegal immigrants are not “undocumented.” They have fraudulent documents such as counterfeit Social Security cards, forged drivers licenses, fake “green cards,” and phony birth certificates. Experts suggest that approximately 75 percent of working-age illegal aliens use fraudulent Social Security cards to obtain employment.


•Most (98 percent) Social Security number (SSN) thieves use their own names with stolen numbers. The federal E-Verify program, now mandated in only 14 states, can detect this fraud. Universal, mandatory use of E-Verify would curb this and stop virtually 100 percent of child identity theft.


•Illegal immigration and high levels of identity theft go hand-in-hand. States with the most illegal immigration also have high levels of job-related identity theft. In Arizona, 33 percent or all identity theft is job-related (as opposed to identity theft motivated simply by profit). In Texas it is 27 percent; in New Mexico, 23 percent; in Colorado, 22 percent; California, 20 percent; and in Nevada, 16 percent. Eight of the 10 states with the highest percentage of illegal aliens in their total population are among the top 10 states in identity theft (Arizona, California, Florida, Texas, Nevada, New York, Georgia, and Colorado).



Children are prime targets. In Arizona, it is estimated that over one million children are victims of identity theft. In Utah, 1,626 companies were found to be paying wages to the SSNs of children on public assistance under the age of 13. These individuals suffer very real and very serious consequences in their lives.


•Illegal aliens commit felonies in order to get jobs. Illegal aliens who use fraudulent documents, perjure themselves on I-9 forms, and commit identity theft in order to get jobs are committing serious offenses and are not “law abiding.”


•Illegally employed aliens send billions of dollars annually to their home countries, rather than spending it in the United States and helping stimulate the American economy. In October 2008 alone, $2.4 billion was transferred to Mexico.


•Tolerance of corruption erodes the rule of law. Corruption is a serious problem in most illegal aliens’ home countries. Allowing it to flourish here paves the way for additional criminal activity and increased corruption throughout society.


•Leaders support perpetrators and ignore victims. Political, civic, religious, business, education, and media leaders blame Americans for “forcing” illegal aliens to commit document fraud and identity theft. No similar concern is expressed for the American men, women, and children whose lives are destroyed in the process.


The Social Security Administration and Internal Revenue Service facilitate illegal immigrant-driven identity theft. Both turn a blind eye to massive SSN fraud and take no action to stop it. The Social Security Administration assigns SSNs to new-born infants that are being used illegally. The IRS demands that victims pay taxes on wages earned by illegal aliens using their stolen SSNs, while taking no action to stop the identity theft.


•State and local governments need to adopt tougher laws to supplement federal efforts. The Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is targeting large document fraud rings and the most egregious employers, but their resources are limited and stretched across multiple priorities. In 2007, identity theft cases represented only 7 percent of the total ICE case load.


•Employers must do their part. They can ensure that they have a legal workforce by using a combination of the federal government’s E-Verify and Social Security Number Verification Service systems and by signing up for the federal government’s IMAGE program or privately conducted audits.


http://www.cis.org/IdentityTheft

loco

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #120 on: April 28, 2010, 02:39:44 PM »

If you would stop cherry-picking the study for what you want to find, you would see, illegals can get many benefits, including benefits for which they may not even be eligible.  

For example: "Illegal aliens may also be receiving public housing assistance, even though by law they are not eligible for these benefits. The alien restrictions in the law are not being applied because the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) has not finalized
a regulation on alien eligibility."



Of course there are many programs that are strict and they can't access, but there a sufficient number that they can and do.

And we can stop pretending like they don't steal other people's identities...

Oh, that's great!  So all these laws are already in place to keep illegal immigrants from receiving benefits, but they are not being enforced.  So the solution is to create new laws to stop Latinos on the streets and demand proof of legal US residence?

How am I pretending like they don't steal other people's identities?  They do, but don't tell me that all illegals steal identities in order to get government benefits.  Most of them are farmers, uneducated and incapable of pulling off identity theft on their own.  Most illegals identities are given to them by the Coyotes, the men on the Mexican side of the border who get paid to take illegals across the US.  The identity theft may be later used to obtain government benefits, but its original purpose is to help them get jobs.  

So it all goes back to no jobs, no illegals.  Funny how Americans keep attacking the problem from all the wrong angles instead of going to the root of the problem.  Stop hiring illegals.

Even this law is ineffective in solving any problems.  If you manage to detain and deport 100,000 illegal immigrants as a result of this law, those illegals will have a beer in Mexico and by the next Sunday they'll be back in Arizona.

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #121 on: April 28, 2010, 02:40:41 PM »

You get pulled over by the cops: There was a reason, speeding, traffic violation, problem with your car etc.
Now, you can get pulled over based on how you look.  Big fucking difference.


No you can't get pulled over based on how you look. 

Skip8282

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #122 on: April 28, 2010, 02:41:45 PM »
would I be better off creating a gimmick to ask some of the questions I ask?  Is it getting in the way that I'm a mod?  


Sorry, didn't really see it as a question, but I do think it might be a stretch for things to come to that in 2017.  I guess I don't see any difference between this law and what the Feds are supposed to be doing already.

And maybe we do need to add some safeguards.  For example if an officer is shown to have some type of disproportionate amount of traffic stops where he "found" and illegal, maybe that should be a basis for an investigation...or something along those lines (I would have to give it more thought).  I see where you're going, but I'm trying to take an optimistic view as I don't think cracking down on employers is enough.  We should have this law, crack down on employers, tighten loopholes, etc.

Skip8282

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #123 on: April 28, 2010, 02:45:05 PM »
So the solution is to create new laws to stop Latinos on the streets and demand proof of legal US residence?


That's not the solution being proposed, that's just you lying about it.

I'm not disagreeing about the jobs issue, I think you're right.  But that has to be just one aspect of a multi-targeted approach.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law
« Reply #124 on: April 28, 2010, 02:50:01 PM »
No you can't get pulled over based on how you look. 
yea, that's my point, now and in the past you can't get pulled over based on how you look.  Now I guess you can.