Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Insider X on December 18, 2011, 10:39:36 PM
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Aaron Singerman calling out Shawn Ray as a liar regarding the Comeback Award at the Masters Nationals on his facebook blog
On December 10th, Jarka Lorie put on the IFBB Pro World Master’s Championship in Miami, Florida. For the men’s bodybuilding portion of the event, an unprecedented $220,000 in prize money was given away, with $100,000 of that money going to first place winner, Dexter Jackson. Everyone who had viewed Jarka’s contest website (www.jarkagym.com/ifbb.html) saw the prize pool was large, but almost no one realized that there would also be a $5,000 Best Poser Award and a $20,000 Biggest Comeback Award. As far as I know, the $5,000 for the best poser was the most money given out for such an award in many years, and I have never even heard of a Biggest Comeback Award. Tricky Jackson beat out Darrem Charles for the Best Poser, and Bill Wilmore won the Biggest Comeback. This column will explore the circumstances that surrounded the decision to award Bill Wilmore with the $20,000 prize.
The first thing I did was head straight to the top. I called Head Judge and Senior IFBB official, Steve Weinberger. Steve informed me that the IFBB had nothing to do with judging, deciding, or presenting the Biggest Comeback Award. The IFBB’s responsibility started and ended with the actual prize money that was handed out to the top 12 men, and top placing bikini girls.
During this investigation, I received an email from Rx Muscle photographer, Pierre Lamely, telling me how upset Roland Cziurlok was that he didn’t win the Best Comeback Award. Normally, a bodybuilder complaining about not placing as well as he thought he should is nothing to write home about. The thing that caught my interest was what Pierre’s email revealed: A very interesting email conversation between Cziurlok, Shawn Ray, and Vince Taylor.
The serial email began with Cziurlok complaining to Shawn that he believed he should have won the Best Comeback award.
Ray responded, “I thought you were a freak bro. Wow was I amazed at your conditioning! That said, it was a vote from ALL the legends that decided that Bill Wilmore should win the award. There was nothing that ONE person could do or say to change that outcome from: Coleman, Taylor, Haney, Ferrigno, Levrone, Yates, Zane, Robinson. The vote was final once everyone said who they thought should win the award. Sorry Bro.”
Cziurlok then forwarded what Shawn Ray wrote to his longtime friend, Vince Taylor. It’s my guess, at that point, Roland was hoping for some clarification on what Vince and the rest of the legends were looking for.
Vince wrote the following reply to Cziurlok:
“Roland.... Please understand... I had NOTHING to do with any voting! I had nothing to do with the show! Please write or call Shawn Ray and tell him you and I are personal friends, and that I, Vince Taylor, said he is a LIAR! To say to you I voted for anyone... My wife and I came to the night show for 20 minutes, then went home. We never saw the show! Not during the morning pre-judging, and NOT AT ALL AT THE NIGHT SHOW!”
After talking to Weinberger and reading these email exchanges, I was hooked. You can probably see why, but this is just the beginning of this story. Let’s first discuss discuss what exactly a “Best Comeback Award” is anyway.
Webster’s Dictionary defines a comeback as a return to a former position, status, etc. Bill Wilmore competed LAST YEAR, and took a controversial 3rd place at the Dallas Europa. It wasn’t controversial in the sense that people thought Bill should have done worse, but just the opposite. I was sitting next to Shawn Ray in the press pit, and both he and I had him in 2nd place, ahead of Mark Alvisi.
I decided to poll some of the people that are experts in our sport and industry:
Peter McGough (former Editor and Chief of FLEX Magazine): Roland Czurlok- “With all due respect to Bill it’s tough to consider a guy who competed in 2010 as meriting "Comeback" status. "Most improved" would have been more appropriate for Bill. If we take a strict interpretation of "Best Comeback" it would have to be Roland -- most conditioned in show after a 10 year lay-off.”
Lonnie Teper (writer for Ironman and World Famous MC): Roland- “Wilmore did look good, but it’s been years since Roland has competed.”
Isaac Hinds (founder of Hardbody.com and photographer): Roland- “Easily, Roland.”
Dan Solomon (host and creator of Pro Bodybuilding Weekly Radio): Roland- “If you’re going to have a Comeback Award at a Legends Show, you should acknowledge one of the Legends... Someone like Roland would have been the logical choice.”
Lee Thompson (IFBB Judge and NPC Texas Chairman): Roland- “Bill looked great in Dallas. He’s always looked good. Impressive showing, but not a comeback.”
Ron Avidan (Creator and Owner of Getbig.com): Roland- “He placed the highest of all the guys who were making a comeback.”
Dave Palumbo (Owner of RxMuscle and Species Nutrition): Roland- “He was easily the most impressive guy to be making a comeback. Wilmore, while impressive, competed last year.”
Seven of our industries most notable experts all would have voted for Roland. But, according to Shawn Ray, it was up to the Legends that attended the show... Or was it? I decided to call the “legends” in attendance. When I asked Ronnie Coleman about how he decided to vote for Bill Wilmore, he told me, “I didn’t vote for anyone; didn’t know anything about a Comeback Award.”
Obviously, neither did Vince Taylor. Samir Bannout told me that Frank Zane wasn’t even at the pre-judging and was only at the night show for limited time. I know both Lee Haney and Lou Ferrigno were in the lobby at their booths for a majority of the night show, and were also not at the pre-judging.
Shawn Ray not only MC’d the show, but he also played a big role in organizing the event with Jarka Lorie. When Roland had questions about the show and, more specifically, the award, he went to Shawn for clarification. I decided to do the same. It was Saturday night and I was on the way to a Christmas party, so I sent Shawn a text message instead of calling. This is what I received:
“The award was presented on MY behalf. ‘The Shawn Ray Comeback Award’. End of story. When the media creates their own award then they can finance it and present it. It’s not open for debate. Sorry. I chose Bill Wilmore...”
I was shocked when I received this text, as it contradicted everything I had been told up until this point. I actually got the impression that Shawn wasn’t involved with the voting at all. I did speak to Shawn later that evening and he insisted that he’s standing by HIS decision.
As happy as I am to see Bill Wilmore win the $20,000, I can’t figure out the logic that would make Bill’s impressive showing a better comeback than Roland’s... Or even a comeback at all! The fact that Shawn Ray would explain to Roland that the “legends” decided the outcome of the Best Comeback Award and then go on to contradict that sentiment days later in a text message to me lead me to the conclusion that “something’s rotten in state of Denmark”.
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Aaron Singerman calling out Shawn Ray as a liar regarding the Comeback Award at the Masters Nationals on his facebook blog
On December 10th, Jarka Lorie put on the IFBB Pro World Master’s Championship in Miami, Florida. For the men’s bodybuilding portion of the event, an unprecedented $220,000 in prize money was given away, with $100,000 of that money going to first place winner, Dexter Jackson. Everyone who had viewed Jarka’s contest website (www.jarkagym.com/ifbb.html) saw the prize pool was large, but almost no one realized that there would also be a $5,000 Best Poser Award and a $20,000 Biggest Comeback Award. As far as I know, the $5,000 for the best poser was the most money given out for such an award in many years, and I have never even heard of a Biggest Comeback Award. Tricky Jackson beat out Darrem Charles for the Best Poser, and Bill Wilmore won the Biggest Comeback. This column will explore the circumstances that surrounded the decision to award Bill Wilmore with the $20,000 prize.
The first thing I did was head straight to the top. I called Head Judge and Senior IFBB official, Steve Weinberger. Steve informed me that the IFBB had nothing to do with judging, deciding, or presenting the Biggest Comeback Award. The IFBB’s responsibility started and ended with the actual prize money that was handed out to the top 12 men, and top placing bikini girls.
During this investigation, I received an email from Rx Muscle photographer, Pierre Lamely, telling me how upset Roland Cziurlok was that he didn’t win the Best Comeback Award. Normally, a bodybuilder complaining about not placing as well as he thought he should is nothing to write home about. The thing that caught my interest was what Pierre’s email revealed: A very interesting email conversation between Cziurlok, Shawn Ray, and Vince Taylor.
The serial email began with Cziurlok complaining to Shawn that he believed he should have won the Best Comeback award.
Ray responded, “I thought you were a freak bro. Wow was I amazed at your conditioning! That said, it was a vote from ALL the legends that decided that Bill Wilmore should win the award. There was nothing that ONE person could do or say to change that outcome from: Coleman, Taylor, Haney, Ferrigno, Levrone, Yates, Zane, Robinson. The vote was final once everyone said who they thought should win the award. Sorry Bro.”
Cziurlok then forwarded what Shawn Ray wrote to his longtime friend, Vince Taylor. It’s my guess, at that point, Roland was hoping for some clarification on what Vince and the rest of the legends were looking for.
Vince wrote the following reply to Cziurlok:
“Roland.... Please understand... I had NOTHING to do with any voting! I had nothing to do with the show! Please write or call Shawn Ray and tell him you and I are personal friends, and that I, Vince Taylor, said he is a LIAR! To say to you I voted for anyone... My wife and I came to the night show for 20 minutes, then went home. We never saw the show! Not during the morning pre-judging, and NOT AT ALL AT THE NIGHT SHOW!”
After talking to Weinberger and reading these email exchanges, I was hooked. You can probably see why, but this is just the beginning of this story. Let’s first discuss discuss what exactly a “Best Comeback Award” is anyway.
Webster’s Dictionary defines a comeback as a return to a former position, status, etc. Bill Wilmore competed LAST YEAR, and took a controversial 3rd place at the Dallas Europa. It wasn’t controversial in the sense that people thought Bill should have done worse, but just the opposite. I was sitting next to Shawn Ray in the press pit, and both he and I had him in 2nd place, ahead of Mark Alvisi.
I decided to poll some of the people that are experts in our sport and industry:
Peter McGough (former Editor and Chief of FLEX Magazine): Roland Czurlok- “With all due respect to Bill it’s tough to consider a guy who competed in 2010 as meriting "Comeback" status. "Most improved" would have been more appropriate for Bill. If we take a strict interpretation of "Best Comeback" it would have to be Roland -- most conditioned in show after a 10 year lay-off.”
Lonnie Teper (writer for Ironman and World Famous MC): Roland- “Wilmore did look good, but it’s been years since Roland has competed.”
Isaac Hinds (founder of Hardbody.com and photographer): Roland- “Easily, Roland.”
Dan Solomon (host and creator of Pro Bodybuilding Weekly Radio): Roland- “If you’re going to have a Comeback Award at a Legends Show, you should acknowledge one of the Legends... Someone like Roland would have been the logical choice.”
Lee Thompson (IFBB Judge and NPC Texas Chairman): Roland- “Bill looked great in Dallas. He’s always looked good. Impressive showing, but not a comeback.”
Ron Avidan (Creator and Owner of Getbig.com): Roland- “He placed the highest of all the guys who were making a comeback.”
Dave Palumbo (Owner of RxMuscle and Species Nutrition): Roland- “He was easily the most impressive guy to be making a comeback. Wilmore, while impressive, competed last year.”
Seven of our industries most notable experts all would have voted for Roland. But, according to Shawn Ray, it was up to the Legends that attended the show... Or was it? I decided to call the “legends” in attendance. When I asked Ronnie Coleman about how he decided to vote for Bill Wilmore, he told me, “I didn’t vote for anyone; didn’t know anything about a Comeback Award.”
Obviously, neither did Vince Taylor. Samir Bannout told me that Frank Zane wasn’t even at the pre-judging and was only at the night show for limited time. I know both Lee Haney and Lou Ferrigno were in the lobby at their booths for a majority of the night show, and were also not at the pre-judging.
Shawn Ray not only MC’d the show, but he also played a big role in organizing the event with Jarka Lorie. When Roland had questions about the show and, more specifically, the award, he went to Shawn for clarification. I decided to do the same. It was Saturday night and I was on the way to a Christmas party, so I sent Shawn a text message instead of calling. This is what I received:
“The award was presented on MY behalf. ‘The Shawn Ray Comeback Award’. End of story. When the media creates their own award then they can finance it and present it. It’s not open for debate. Sorry. I chose Bill Wilmore...”
I was shocked when I received this text, as it contradicted everything I had been told up until this point. I actually got the impression that Shawn wasn’t involved with the voting at all. I did speak to Shawn later that evening and he insisted that he’s standing by HIS decision.
As happy as I am to see Bill Wilmore win the $20,000, I can’t figure out the logic that would make Bill’s impressive showing a better comeback than Roland’s... Or even a comeback at all! The fact that Shawn Ray would explain to Roland that the “legends” decided the outcome of the Best Comeback Award and then go on to contradict that sentiment days later in a text message to me lead me to the conclusion that “something’s rotten in state of Denmark”.
Anyone want to guess how much of the $20k ends up in Shawn Ray's pocket? I'm going even split. 10k for Wilmore and 10k for SRay. If you remember, they have done business before... VYO Tech.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=110298.0;wap2
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The Vyotech connection. Does Shawn Ray owe money to Bill Wilmore? Shawn Ray has some explaining to do as to why HE chose Wilmore as the 'Comeback' award. Shawn Ray has some explaining to do as to why he was the lone 'judge' in this award and not the legends, as he told everyone. Shawn Ray has some explaining to do as to how much money he got from the Masters Legends Promoter over his advice on this contest. Some say he received over $40,000 as compensation.
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The Vyotech connection. Does Shawn Ray owe money to Bill Wilmore? Shawn Ray has some explaining to do as to why HE chose Wilmore as the 'Comeback' award. Shawn Ray has some explaining to do as to why he was the lone 'judge' in this award and not the legends, as he told everyone. Shawn Ray has some explaining to do as to how much money he got from the Masters Legends Promoter over his advice on this contest. Some say he received over $40,000 as compensation.
Vyotech and their goat milk went out of business.
Whoever fronted the money for this show will be out off business by Dec 31st?
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see what happens when I'm only on one cup of coffee. Hopefully a mod takes this one down
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see what happens when I'm only on one cup of coffee. Hopefully a mod takes this one down
But thanks anyway, RM...
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“Best Comeback Award”?
comeback from what? from when?.. ::)
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Thong Wars.
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Ron Avidan (Creator and Owner of Getbig.com)
Thats like saying Julius Caesar was some Roman dude who did some stuff.... >:(
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Thats like saying Julius Caesar was some Roman dude who did some stuff.... >:(
hey don't kill the messenger I didn't write it ;D
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(https://mycotopia.net/forums/attachments/botanicals/215310d1301914121-defatting-mescaline-tar-interdasting.jpg)
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hey don't kill the messenger I didn't write it ;D
Wasn't shooting, kicking, or trying to kill the messenger....was pointing out the blasphemy
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Wasn't shooting, kicking, or trying to kill the messenger....was pointing out the blasphemy
;D
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Ron Paul should have won. Just sayin'.
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Shawn may have had a pretty flawless physique in his time but the # 1 thing to always remember about Shawn is it's very easy to catch him when he's telling a lie, it's every fucking time he opens his mouth. Same thing with Flex Wheeler. Ray and Wheeler notorious for being bullshit artists. Thank God it never rubbed off on Levrone.
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Just another clusterfuck brought to you by pro bodybuilding.
Shawn Ray has as much in common with the truth as he does with height.
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“Best Comeback Award”?
comeback from what? from when?.. ::)
From the retirement home....
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Just another clusterfuck brought to you by pro bodybuilding.
Shawn Ray has as much in common with the truth as he does with height.
;D ;D ;D
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(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-F7iqC5cpXr4/Tlej4Rkxj6I/AAAAAAAAF10/MsWzbZ3mBDE/Buy%2Bone%2Bfor%2Bprice%2Bof%2Btwo.jpg)
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Just another clusterfuck brought to you by pro bodybuilding.
Shawn Ray has as much in common with the truth as he does with height.
Booom! ;D
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(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-F7iqC5cpXr4/Tlej4Rkxj6I/AAAAAAAAF10/MsWzbZ3mBDE/Buy%2Bone%2Bfor%2Bprice%2Bof%2Btwo.jpg)
hahahahahaha you really see stuff like this for real...
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hahahahahaha you really see stuff like this for real...
There are plenty of retards out there who will think its a good deal and buy ::)
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In the end it's a beauty pageant. It's all subjective.
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I was on MD reading about this and all of a sudden the thread disappeared.
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I was on MD reading about this and all of a sudden the thread disappeared.
No, it didnt disappear....your Alzheimer disease kicked in
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No, it didnt disappear....your Alzheimer disease kicked in
I may be have Alzheimers,but at least I don`t have Alzheimers.
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I may be have Alzheimers,but at least I don`t have Alzheimers.
hahhahahahahha
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The Vyotech connection. Does Shawn Ray owe money to Bill Wilmore? Shawn Ray has some explaining to do as to why HE chose Wilmore as the 'Comeback' award. Shawn Ray has some explaining to do as to why he was the lone 'judge' in this award and not the legends, as he told everyone. Shawn Ray has some explaining to do as to how much money he got from the Masters Legends Promoter over his advice on this contest. Some say he received over $40,000 as compensation.
Sucked her dry. He saw $, and he got as much as he could while the gettings good.
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Love or hate shawn ray you cannot deny that he knows how to hustle a dollar, and he is very cheap, he always forgets his wallet when he goes out to dinner with other pros, he must be sitting on a nice bank account.
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funny how when NASSER revealed this type of behaviour years ago the pumpkinheads whined and complained that he is badmouthing his "old friends" LOL.
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What else would you expect from a cheap two-faced bald fat washed-up bodybuilder midget like Shawn Ray!!!
There is a reason why nobody liked him back when he was competing and still nobody like him now!
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funny how when NASSER revealed this type of behaviour years ago the pumpkinheads whined and complained that he is badmouthing his "old friends" LOL.
The beatiful man with glasses speak the truth! ;D
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What else would you expect from a cheap two-faced bald fat washed-up bodybuilder midget like Shawn Ray!!!
There is a reason why nobody liked him back when he was competing and still nobody like him now!
wasn't shawn the most honest Pro around?......he never back stabbed his friends......
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Doctor told me I got cancer and Alzheimers, but at least I don't have cancer...
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funny how when NASSER revealed this type of behaviour years ago the pumpkinheads whined and complained that he is badmouthing his "old friends" LOL.
As always, Nasser is late to the Party...Lonnie Teper talked about this back in 94...
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Nasser spoke the truth about Sean Ray & Milos.
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Talked to Shawn Ray - he stands by his decision, here is his response to me...
The Best Comeback Award was titled "The Shawn Ray Comeback Award". Not the Jarka Award. Not the IFBB Judges Award. Not the Legends Unanimous Vote Award or the Fan Favorite Award.
I chose Bill Wilmore and the other legends have agreed with my choice including Hall of Fame Bodybuilders Dorian Yates, Kevin Levrone and Lee Haney.
There was no Official "VOTE" - only opinions asked of my fellow Hall of Fame Bodybuilders but the final decision was made by me.
My decision is open to debate but not open for "Re-Judging" or "Changing" of my decision which was based on more than a person just coming in 'ripped' condition.
While it is true Roland Cziurlok looked phenomenal and arguably was the 'best conditioned', I had more requirements in my final decision that helped me conclude my choice for the winner of this award which included:
Being Competitive, Conditioned, Improved and Balanced.
Bill Wilmore rose above the others in ALL of the above and was my Clear Choice to win this Award!
Hope this helps.
Next time someone wants to "Contribute" to the making of this kind of monetary award, we'd appreciate it if you would throw your own personal financial resources to the award then your opinion of who should win it. It would be more valued and respected toward who should or should not be deserving of the award.
Happy holidays.
Shawn Ray
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Yogi do YOU believe Shawn? ::)
No disrespect to Bill but Roland hadn't competed in nearly 11 years and in the words of iconic photographer Albert Busek, "It's a miracle that Roland is on stage. He is lucky to be alive." I guess coming back from your death bed isn't enough to receive the "Shawn Ray Comeback Award".
Funny how Sugar tags his name on this award yet you know he didn't pony up the cash.
MUSCLE PHONE RETURNS!
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Talked to Shawn Ray - he stands by his decision, here is his response to me...
The Best Comeback Award was titled "The Shawn Ray Comeback Award". Not the Jarka Award. Not the IFBB Judges Award. Not the Legends Unanimous Vote Award or the Fan Favorite Award.
I chose Bill Wilmore and the other legends have agreed with my choice including Hall of Fame Bodybuilders Dorian Yates, Kevin Levrone and Lee Haney.
There was no Official "VOTE" - only opinions asked of my fellow Hall of Fame Bodybuilders but the final decision was made by me.
My decision is open to debate but not open for "Re-Judging" or "Changing" of my decision which was based on more than a person just coming in 'ripped' condition.
While it is true Roland Cziurlok looked phenomenal and arguably was the 'best conditioned', I had more requirements in my final decision that helped me conclude my choice for the winner of this award which included:
Being Competitive, Conditioned, Improved and Balanced.
Bill Wilmore rose above the others in ALL of the above and was my Clear Choice to win this Award!
Hope this helps.
Next time someone wants to "Contribute" to the making of this kind of monetary award, we'd appreciate it if you would throw your own personal financial resources to the award then your opinion of who should win it. It would be more valued and respected toward who should or should not be deserving of the award.
Happy holidays.
Shawn Ray
Shawn is the man. That's why he's been on top for so long.
You all should learn how life works from and not just talk about things should be.
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popcorn til this thing gets deleted.
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Shawn is the man. That's why he's been on top for so long.
You all should learn how life works from and not just talk about things should be.
hi Shawn
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Yogi do YOU believe Shawn? ::)
No disrespect to Bill but Roland hadn't competed in nearly 11 years and in the words of iconic photographer Albert Busek, "It's a miracle that Roland is on stage. He is lucky to be alive." I guess coming back from your death bed isn't enough to receive the "Shawn Ray Comeback Award".
Funny how Sugar tags his name on this award yet you know he didn't pony up the cash.
MUSCLE PHONE RETURNS!
And how do you know he didn't contribute $20K of value if not any cash?
He was totally responsible for promoting that show for months. His connection with MD. He was the MC. Maybe he cut his fee to Jarka in half.
You know nothing about the situation or business.
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hi Shawn
I'm not Shawn but I can't understand why losers don't learn from winners.
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Yogi do YOU believe Shawn? ::) No disrespect to Bill but Roland hadn't competed in nearly 11 years and in the words of iconic photographer Albert Busek, "It's a miracle that Roland is on stage. He is lucky to be alive." I guess coming back from your death bed isn't enough to receive the "Shawn Ray Comeback Award". Funny how Sugar tags his name on this award yet you know he didn't pony up the cash. MUSCLE PHONE RETURNS!
Where did it say in the post that I put up that I believed Shawn. The post is what Shawn replied back. My initial response was that Roland should of won the Comeback Award - like yours was.
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And how do you know he didn't contribute $20K of value if not any cash?
He was totally responsible for promoting that show for months. His connection with MD. He was the MC. Maybe he cut his fee to Jarka in half.
You know nothing about the situation or business.
Clearly you've never done business with Shawn. 8)
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drama
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Where did it say in the post that I put up that I believed Shawn. The post is what Shawn replied back. My initial response was that Roland should of won the Comeback Award - like yours was.
The great Yogi playing Jedi Mind Tricks with Sugar Shawn
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Nasser spoke the truth about Sean Ray & Milos.
Everything he spoke was the truth, it just takes incidents such as this for some to finally realize it :)
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Lol at Zingherman calling this an investigation ;D
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lying guy
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Didn't Jay Cutler lawyer up in 2001 Olympia when a drug test came back positive? Didn't Franco Columbo sue for millions in the World strongman comp in the 70's.
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Thanks Musclephone ;D