Author Topic: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids  (Read 76740 times)

Figo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8101
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2007, 01:44:47 PM »
Don Ross was young there!

Ross was great, especially enjoyed his writing, but those are two physique extremes, beauty and the beast there... ;D

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12947
  • What you!
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2007, 12:43:31 AM »
Well, it really is a waste to join some discussions. Some people interpret things totally without merit and they probably read what isn't there or intended.

If Steve Reeves said that he didn't hear about anabolic steroids until the mid sixties that is interesting. Everyone was talking about steroids. Larry Scott and the California musclemen were surely using by then. If Steve had no knowledge then he wasn't hanging around bodybuilders or reading the magazines.

I don't have any information whatever about Steve Reeves and any steroid use. None. From what I know about bodybuilders I always am suspicious about how they got so big in the old days. If we extrapolate back from what modern muscleheads do we have to accept that some bodybuilders would have looked for shortcuts. If someone discovered he made good gains from using something he might tell his mates. That is the way information spreads. In the old days there weren't many gyms around but the muscleheads would know each other and pass on information.

Was Steve Reeves totally natural throughout his bodybuilding career? I have no idea. My guess is he probably was. If someone came along with definite proof to contradict this it wouldn't surprise me but I would be very disappointed.

I look back at my career. I started training in Feb 1959. Gains came quite slowly but my strength shot ahead. I grew much better when I attended college and university because for the first time I ate properly. I even grew an inch and a half since graduating from high school. While at UBC I was on the weightlifting team and eventually earned my Big Block letter for that sport. My best lifts as a mid-heavy were 255-215-285.  When I competed with some American lifters in the Northwest some of them were cleaning and jerking 335. That was a heck of a lot more than I could do. I just kept on training and started enterring bodybuilding shows in Vancouver. My first win was in 1964 in the Mr North Vancouver. Conveniently I was the only competitor from that suburb! I started placing high in the local shows but there were always a few guys ahead of me. We heard about steroids but no one I knew actually took them or confessed. In 1965 I enterred the Mr Ten Provinces contest in Toronto when I was at the University of Toronto.

In 1970 Ray Beck, who I worked for in his gyms, promoted the Mr Canada contest. Well, I knew I wasn't going to win that show naturally so I got my ex to get me some Dianabol tablets. I had no clue about getting them nor would I present to a doctor because that would have been too embarrassing. So I did about 2 months of Dianabol taking two 5mg tablets a day. My strength shot up quickly and I gained some size especially in the pecs. I stopped taking the pills about one month out. When I started dieting I lost too much size so took the pills for two weeks until the contest. I lost 20 pounds in the last two weeks. Luckily only one guy showed up from Quebec and no one from Ontario. I won a close contest against local Ken Rivard who was much larger in the upper body but lacked size in the legs. I got 8 votes and Ken got 5 out of 13 judges. That is close.

Now, if I chose to keep my mouth shut I could have claimed I was natural when I won the Mr Canada. However, I don't believe in telling lies. Had the show been 10 years earlier I would never have revealed the Dianabol usage. It would have been disgraceful. In 1970 Sergio, Arnold, Larry and others set a new standard and I was a little guy compared to them. Doctor Michael Walzack met me on English Bay Beach in Vancouver in the summer of 1970 and we talked about bodybuilding and the scene in LA. He told me heaps of stuff about Arnold, Joe, etc., etc. He told he I had a good physique and could be a Mr Universe with his help. All it would take was 6 months of steroids. I was more interested in my skin! I never went to LA to take up his offer. He declined to come to dinner at my house as I was married then.

Who the heck really knows what anyone did in those days? It was all hush hush for most guys and no one fessed to using gear. Even today there is a stain on having used Dianabol. Hans Gensow, who inspired me to bodybuild, was disgusted with me when he found out in 2004 at a reunion. There you are. I was around in the 1960s so the steroids were around then. Were they around in the 50s? Probably. Were steroids available in the 1940s? Most say no but who knows what happened then? Everyone is taking their stories to their graves.

Cleanest Natural

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 28661
  • Diet first, all else second
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2007, 03:57:53 AM »
Dude i've seen your pics and your attention-starved posts. You're once again trolling for attention.
Not really bitch. The difference is when someone makes fun of me I post clips backing up my claims to shut up little whores such as yourself . Hope this helps.

pumpster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18890
  • If you're reading this you have too much free time
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2007, 10:18:48 PM »
Not really bitch. The difference is when someone makes fun of me I post clips backing up my claims to shut up little whores such as yourself . Hope this helps.
Posting pics of yourself resembling an alien's no help actually. ;)

Cleanest Natural

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 28661
  • Diet first, all else second
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2007, 12:08:56 AM »
Posting pics of yourself resembling an alien's no help actually. ;)
Monster dodging the issue which is shittalkers such as yourself not being able to back up their rants... ;)

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12947
  • What you!
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2007, 05:12:56 AM »
Made in Montana you are passionate about your subject. However, your analysis and logic leave a lot to be desired. You conclude all sorts of rubbish about insinuating and so on. That is not what I wrote. Then you accuse me of saying Steve used steroids, etc. I said no such thing. I always give credit for excellence and effort. However, as a philosopher and being scientifically minded I keep an open mind about what went on in our pastime through the decades. I wonder when bodybuilding became a sham because it was long before I started lifting weights.

No wonder they don't allow discussions about steroids on Ironage. It is pointless to debate things we cannot prove about matters of fact that happened or didn't happen long ago. Keep posting photos of Steve because those are always appreciated.

onlyme

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19328
  • Don't Fuck With Bears
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #56 on: August 01, 2007, 09:13:22 PM »
Just got back.  I don't care what anyone says about Steve Reeves.  He is one of my idols and I think he was awesome.  I really don't think he took roids and if he did it was very very minimal and for a short time.  He had a great body and looked good.  I had some chances to meet him and never did.  I wish I had.

rockyfortune

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1939
  • "look, it's the drunk piano player."
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2007, 09:55:29 AM »
drugs..no drugs..if his family member says he wasn't on..then you'd have to believe him over some schlub bodybuilders friend of a friend evidence..either way..the guy was blessed unlike some of the turds that permeate bodybuilding nowadays.
footloose and fancy free

alexxx

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10129
  • Don't hate..
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2007, 10:03:42 AM »
Quote
"The greatest compliment I could ever pay any man is the way Steve made me feel the first time I ever met him; I could not stand being in the same room with him! He made me feel totally inadequate as a bodybuilder...Steve was Michelangelo’s concept of the perfectly formed man!" --Vince Gironda

Comming from Gironda, that is some very very high props! :o

I mean he even called Arnold a fat f*** to his face lol!

just push some weight!

rockyfortune

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1939
  • "look, it's the drunk piano player."
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2007, 10:51:39 AM »
Comming from Gironda, that is some very very high props! :o

I mean he even called Arnold a fat f*** to his face lol!




i can hear arnold in that thick schmeisser accent...

what do you mean fat?! i no fat...
footloose and fancy free

alexxx

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10129
  • Don't hate..
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2007, 12:47:30 PM »

i can hear arnold in that thick schmeisser accent...

what do you mean fat?! i no fat...

lol He sure got pissed off at Gironda! ;D
just push some weight!

Figo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8101
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2007, 04:00:12 PM »
M in M,

Did Reeves follow a different diet pre-contest, or is true the guys just entered shows whenever without specific prep?

Did he do serratus specific work? He had very defined and developed, deep serratus!

Cleanest Natural

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 28661
  • Diet first, all else second
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2007, 03:21:27 AM »
...ADD TO THAT D-BOL FROM DR ZIEGLER.....RAW TEST...AND EVERYTHING HE COULD FUCKING GET HIS HANDS ON....STOP MISLEADING YOUNG KIDS....WHY ARE U HERE ANYWAY?....

pumpster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18890
  • If you're reading this you have too much free time
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2007, 08:06:56 AM »
...ADD TO THAT D-BOL FROM DR ZIEGLER.....RAW TEST...AND EVERYTHING HE COULD FUCKING GET HIS HANDS ON....STOP MISLEADING YOUNG KIDS....WHY ARE U HERE ANYWAY?....

Keith do we need this trolling on here?

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12947
  • What you!
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2007, 08:18:25 AM »
MonMadeTana you should have lived when they had the inquisition. You would have been very effective. The truth is out there somewhere buried with those who are now gone.

Cleanest Natural

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 28661
  • Diet first, all else second
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2007, 08:30:19 AM »
Keith do we need this trolling on here?
U ARE JUST PLAIN STUPID....KEITH KNOWS THAT REEVES WAS AS NATURAL AS SHAWN RAY ...AND IT DOESN'T DETRACT FROM EITHER ONE'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS BUT WE NEED TO STOP HAVING SOME TEARY EYED FANS ASSUME THAT OUR HEROES WERE CLEAN BECAUSE THEY SAID SO....G4P AND ROIDS WERE SINNONIMOUS WITH BB SINCE THE WEIDERS GOT INTO IT...

Cleanest Natural

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 28661
  • Diet first, all else second
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2007, 12:55:06 PM »
Sevastase, if Dr. Zieglar was giving people in WWII steroids as Vince suggests, he skipped over Steve because everyone knows Steve came back over 20 lbs. weaker and smaller. When Ed Yarrick saw Steve when he came back from the war and walked into his physical culture studio, he said, "You look great. Who's your undertaker?" It took work to get back what he lost in size and strength. But he did it while everyone watched. Thank you Vince for teaching your disciples like sevastase to preach b.s. He didn't come up with that one on his own. That's what I was talking about. Unfair and not honest. Sevastase...thanks a lot for pointless unneccesary rudeness. You could have been cool and said, here's what I like about Steve...or here's what I question...instead of attacks that aren't warranted...or fair. "Steve took this drug and that one"...means nothing coming from people who didn't know him...and have no logic or proof to back it. Rude and unnecessary too.
U ARE RIGHT ...I DO NOT NOW FOR SURE...BUT WHAT I DO KNOW FOR SURE IS : U DO NOT GET TO REEVES SIZE AND BODYFAT LEVEL WITH JUST FOOD AND LIVER TABLETS ..IT TAKES A LOT MORE.....IT TAKES DBOL, TEST AS IN TABLETS, AND WHATEVER WAS AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME?.....LIKE GH15 SAID...HE EXPERIMENTED....ALOT...T HAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT...I WAS A BB....AND I REALLY LIKE STEVE...HOWEVER I HAVE TO SET U STRAIGHT ON THIS ONE...YOUR INSIGHT ON HIM IS EXCELLENT AND I ENJOY YOUR POSTS . HOWEVER MR. REEVES BUILT HIS BODY DIFFERENTLY THAN HOW IT WAS ADVERTISED AT THE TIME BECAUSE MR WEIDER WANTED HIM AS THEIR POSTERBOY....SO " HORMONES AND SUCH BUILT HIM PLUS TONS OF FOOD " AND HE WAS ADVERTISED AS THE PICTURE OF HEALTH WHICH IN A WAY HE WAS...IS THE SAME OLD STORY...REEVES. ARNOLD, HANEY, COLEMAN, ....HORMONES PLUS FOOD BUILDS THEM SO THEY CAN SELL A LOT OF PROTEIN POWDERS..."

Cleanest Natural

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 28661
  • Diet first, all else second
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2007, 04:25:34 PM »
I agree with that in regards to Arnold, Columbo and some of the rest from the 60s...70s on. Weider paid for their apartment, car, extra spending money and for them to come to the U.S.
Steve was not paid anything from Weider but a small fee for posing/pictures; he was given nothing else from Weider. No food or supplements or drugs. In fact, Steve had to borrow money from friends to pay for traveling and fees to compete in the Mr. America contest. There was no Mr. Olympia contest in 1947.  I know Steve was a natural because I know people who've tried his training program and had great/similiar  results...and I have too. He really wasn't that unbelievably large...but his bone structure and frame were unusual and well as his ability to hit every body part neglecting nothing. Flawless.

Have a great weekend everyone.
::)

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12947
  • What you!
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2007, 05:58:08 PM »
MinM. Your mind will torment you relentlessly because you assess life like those who believe in intelligent design. Your theory may or may not be true. What you do is insist it must be true and then react to everyone else as if they are blasphemous.

I curse the day steroids and other crap were introduced into bodybuilding because the sport has been a sham ever since. Even the Ironage site is a sham because most of those guys from the supposed Ironage were users. Can you imagine if we ignored drugs when referring to Olympic athletes? The sad thing nowadays is that we can't be sure athletes are clean or that they used in their training for contests.

When exactly, was the start of all these chemicals? Maybe we should do a history journey starting with Dr John Z and go from there. Statements were made about John developing some drugs to help wounded soldiers recover from burns, etc., during WWII. Is this true and what exactly did he develop or give those patients? When did the muscleheads experiment with those 'growth' agents? If we knew that we could shed some light on this whole issue and then have a background that we can use to set the scene when we discuss individuals.

People who make statements about what certain individuals did when they have no knowledge at all are no better than Made in Montana. That isn't science. What M in M ignores is that everyone in this discussion might be wrong about matters. Clearly, everyone cannot be correct.

If we reverse engineer drugs in bodybuilding we can state that they were definitely being used in the 1960s and most observers would 'explain' the results of the really big guys as 'steroid users'. Today we have little idea what is possible through natural training because the best bodybuilders use plenty of stuff. Even the word 'natural' hasn't been properly defined by everyone. What exactly is a drug and what a supplement? We have 'precursors' that weren't even thought about in the past.

I ask MinM to show us a time frame of when drugs were used in sport accompanied with definite evidence that certain people were using drugs. Who used what drug, for what dosage, for what length of time. It should be clear this is going to be virtually impossible and soon enough we will be conjecturing instead of proceeding like scientists. Does MinM know that the majority of research into anabolic steroids that was published in the professional journals up until at least 1980 didn't establish that steroids worked. All we had was anecdotal evidence. Go look for yourself and see. What the heck is science and what conjecture? The confusion and sloppy theories in bodybuilding have made our mirror sport a laughing stock. Every musclehead is an expert and Getbig and other forums are living proof of that claim. Is there any doubt that MinM claims to be an expert in bodybuilding?

MinM is not judge and jury about the issue of steroids in sport. He is but one enthusiast and it seems to me he has an axe to grind. He tries to cut down anyone who argues that certain champions from the distant past were stellar individuals who were 100% clean. His approach is to personally attack the person and not the argument. That is why it is fruitless to join these debates. By the end everyone is pissed off and people are charged with all sorts of crap that should be completely beyond the scope of these forums.


Here is a Google search on the history of steroids.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=the+history+of+anabolic+steroids&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

knny187

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22005
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2007, 07:03:57 PM »
I agree with Vince on this

Again....SR may of been natural...but unless his bones are dug up & maybe with current technology can be proved otherwise....all we can do is assume.

Alot of people keep their lives secret & personal.  The only person who knew SR the best & the truth to his life is dead.

Personally...it makes no difference to me...because it's pointless debating a topic that really can't be determined 100%

The photo's are great.  Just post want you want.....but realize....there's a lot of open room for open debate & discussion. There's always two sides to every story especially without Steve being here to defend himself.  Just don't get your panties in a bunch over it.


Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12947
  • What you!
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2007, 05:35:24 AM »
No doubt you mean well MinM but ........philosophers should be able to discuss matters in a rational fashion. I knew you would react to my posts as if they were personally attacking you. I try to debate theories and statements not the personalities of individuals. However, at times I do comment on what some people do in responses to posts I have made.

You write as if you are an expert in bodybuilding and especially concerning Steve Reeves.

There is no way to settle debates on the internet. I hope you comprehend this.

Figo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8101
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #71 on: August 05, 2007, 02:19:31 AM »
There is no way to settle debates on the internet. I hope you comprehend this.

No, there isn't.

Figo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8101
Re: Steve
« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2007, 05:21:10 AM »
Figo and I didn't have a problem debating. He told me what he thought and why...and I did the same. He came in with proof of why he believed a certain way...and I could see why he thought the way he did. He allowed me to have a response to that...which is fair. As a result, we better understand each other now and have no problem getting along. I don't know what he really thinks deep down and he's allowed to think what he wants, but he is being considerate of my position and I consider his too because of it.


My position, is that I, like many others, think Reeves was phenomenal, a genetic gift, that through hard-work, propelled himself to stardom, and even if it wasn't through bbing, he probably would have excelled at something else.

With regards to steroids, I would like to believe he was clean, as like anyone else, we need someone to look up to, especially in this day and age when we've become so cynical and judgemental, that we think any guy with muscle is on the juice.
I've got nothing against steroids nor people who use, and would have none less for Reeves neither, had he used, but a "clean" champion with a fantastic physique inspires one more, even if one takes steroids.

I started this thread to vent my frustation at people who refuse to face the reality that todays "monsters" who they dislike so much, got the drug-taking precedent from their idols. Even the site enhancing oils that get abused today were used more intelligently back in the day. I'm referring to the 70's and 80's, when the experimenting began.

As far as Reeves goes, M in M, you knew him, so I gotta respect that, I don't know anything else besides what I've read in magazines, or the factual internet evidence and theories ;D.
Did you spend much time with him, whats the age gap, when did you realize your relative was a legend in bbing?

Another thing, when is someone gonna ask if Eugene Sandow was natural...?


Which, of course, begs the question, was Louis Cyr the first strongman to use Anapolon?

Vince B

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12947
  • What you!
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #73 on: August 05, 2007, 06:07:38 PM »
Made in Montana. I have to say your replies to my posts leave me wondering how it is possible for anyone to interpret my words the way you do. Incredibly self-referring reactions on your part. The more I post the more you recoil and I become the monster who is attacking your precious beliefs. This is beyond a waste of time because it is going in the opposite direction to where I usually want to go.

Post more Reeves images because that is appreciated.

Eric2

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2890
Re: Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids
« Reply #74 on: August 05, 2007, 08:21:22 PM »
If I remeber right Steve Reeves put out a book shortly before his untimely death. I would like to get it.
    Steve was the personafication of perfection. When I see some of his photos I want to train, hike, chop firewood, outdoors kinda shit. He seemed like a mans man who could do it all and well. I will not debate the steriod issue on him(I doubt he used) he was a great man and a legend that should stand the test of all time.

&mode=related&search=
h