Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: MindSpin on April 26, 2010, 02:37:10 PM
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For years he has been touting that his "adonis principles" are the ideal way to eat in order to gain muscle/lose fat. These principles are, of course, complete bullshit.
I offered to fly him & his "girlfriend" to California (at my expense) so that he may debate this with Dr. Scott Connelly. I would, of course videotape everything and post it on GB. Unfortunately, he came up with 15 pages of excuses (see link below), thus exposing himself as a complete fraud :-\
The fact remains - calorie counting is useless.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=328439.375;topicseen
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LOL knew this was coming...TA youve stepped in it this time bro
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I don't care what you guys say, TA and Wavelength are 100% correct. Using their methods I am learner and stronger then ever before! :o
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Mindspin, I have an open mind but find it hard to believe that losing fat doesnt come down to mainly calorie counting along with a good intake of protein,can you briefly sum up what Dr Connelly believes is actually the key to losing fat?
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I had a two fried (battered in Rice flour adonis) chicken breasts for breakfast... ;D
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I don't care what you guys say, TA and Wavelength are 100% correct. Using their methods I am learner and stronger then ever before! :o
X2 its all math
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LOL TA also believes that fast food is as nutritional as other foods... ;D
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X2 its all math
Yes!
Very simple, if I burn X amount of calories daily all I need to do is cut calories to an amount less than X to lose fat.
How can you even argue with that? ???
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I don't care what you guys say, TA and Wavelength are 100% correct. Using their methods I am learner and stronger then ever before! :o
x2 the science is irrefutable.
the fact a 'Dr' feels different is a sad reflection of the poor standard of education he must have received.
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Yes!
Very simple, if I burn X amount of calories daily all I need to do is cut calories to an amount less than X to lose fat.
How can you even argue with that? ???
Yep more than you need = gain less than you need = lose.
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Mindspin, I have an open mind but find it hard to believe that losing fat doesnt come down to mainly calorie counting along with a good intake of protein,can you briefly sum up what Dr Connelly believes is actually the key to losing fat?
I'm going to state this once, and then leave it for the Adam/Connelly debate.
Connelly believes that you can take a pair of monozygotic twins and put them both on an identical training regimen and identical caloric consumption. However, if one is getting his calories primarily from protein, and the other is getting his calories primarily from carbs, they will end up with differing body composition. In spite of the fact that both twins are burning & consuming the same amount of calories, the twin that is consuming primarily protein will end up with more muscle and lower body fat.
That is the oversimplified position. Like I said before, I'm not going to spend hours on here reading through Adonis cut & paste nonsense. The best way to settle this is to get the two together and see it debated.
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TA > "Dr." Scott Connelly
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Mindspin, I have an open mind but find it hard to believe that losing fat doesnt come down to mainly calorie counting along with a good intake of protein,can you briefly sum up what Dr Connelly believes is actually the key to losing fat?
That humans are an amino acid driven organism. That we have an ancestral affinity for protein and fat. That carbohydrates are not an essential nutrient. That Insulin is the only fat storage hormone in the body. Control insulin via carbohydrate intake and we can control fat storage. The Dr stresses complex hormonal processes that are not controlled by varying amounts of calories.
IMO people always want to find a way to eat more, and to suffer less.
dieting is much more mental than physical. It involves feelings of hunger, often leading to irrational thought patterns and as a result - binge eating and crazy diet fads
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Yes!
Very simple, if I burn X amount of calories daily all I need to do is cut calories to an amount less than X to lose fat.
How can you even argue with that? ???
Oh...it is that VERY misconception that is at the heart of all this confusion. We have to get this debate going. I want you guys to hear Scott explain this!
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I'm going to state this once, and then leave it for the Adam/Connelly debate.
Connelly believes that you can take a pair of monozygotic twins and put them both on an identical training regimen and identical caloric consumption. However, if one is getting his calories primarily from protein, and the other is getting his calories primarily from carbs, they will end up with differing body composition. In spite of the fact that both twins are burning & consuming the same amount of calories, the twin that is consuming primarily protein will end up with more muscle and lower body fat.
That is the oversimplified position. Like I said before, I'm not going to spend hours on here reading through Adonis cut & paste nonsense. The best way to settle this is to get the two together and see it debated.
i do not see how this is at odds with what adonis believes ???
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Yep more than you need = gain less than you need = lose.
I feel sorry for these fat ladies that buy this expensive equipment and don't realize all they need to do is cut calories. :(
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I offered to fly him & his "girlfriend" to California (at my expense) so that he may debate this with Dr. Scott Connelly. I would, of course videotape everything and post it on GB. Unfortunately, he came up with 15 pages of excuses (see link below), thus exposing himself as a complete fraud :-\
I could not care less about the 'debate.' I can't believe he passed on a free trip on MindSpin's nickle. I would have been in that mini-bar before the bellhop put my luggage down. ;D
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For years he has been touting that his "adonis principles" are the ideal way to eat in order to gain muscle/lose fat. These principles are, of course, complete bullshit.
I offered to fly him & his "girlfriend" to California (at my expense) so that he may debate this with Dr. Scott Connelly. I would, of course videotape everything and post it on GB. Unfortunately, he came up with 15 pages of excuses (see link below), thus exposing himself as a complete fraud :-\
The fact remains - calorie counting is useless.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=328439.375;topicseen
Ouch TA getting beat down here :-\
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i do not see how this is at odds with what adonis believes ???
Adonis believes that in order to get ripped you must cut calories (Connelly disagrees). Adonis also believes that as long as you consume .5 - 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight, you could consume anything else you want and still lose fat gain muscle (Connelly disagrees).
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I'm going to state this once, and then leave it for the Adam/Connelly debate.
Connelly believes that you can take a pair of monozygotic twins and put them both on an identical training regimen and identical caloric consumption. However, if one is getting his calories primarily from protein, and the other is getting his calories primarily from carbs, they will end up with differing body composition. In spite of the fact that both twins are burning & consuming the same amount of calories, the twin that is consuming primarily protein will end up with more muscle and lower body fat.
That is the oversimplified position. Like I said before, I'm not going to spend hours on here reading through Adonis cut & paste nonsense. The best way to settle this is to get the two together and see it debated.
I agree with that, I believe different foods do change your metabolic rate.
Keeping that in mind, it's still a matter of eating less than you're body requires to maintain a given weight.
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i saw this one coming
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I feel sorry for these fat ladies that buy this expensive equipment and don't realize all they need to do is cut calories. :(
Fat ladies have been cutting calories for decades. Has it worked? Obesity is at an all-time high. The fact is, most people fail at their calorie cutting diets and end up worse of than they were. In their futile attempt to reduce calories, all they manage to do is slow down their metabolism. Eventually, when they cant's stick to their diets any longer, and begin to eat again, they rebound, gain their fat back and then some. It's a vicious cycle.
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We just had a presentation at my graduate seminar today on how the main factor in fat loss is caloric intake, specifically the amount of fat intake, but that lowering it to levels sufficient to lose lots of fat may be infeasible. The secondary factors were total daily caloric intake and energy balance prior to your workout.
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We just had a presentation at my graduate seminar today on how the main factor in fat loss is caloric intake, specifically the amount of fat intake, but that lowering it to levels sufficient to lose lots of fat may be infeasible. The secondary factors were total daily caloric intake and energy balance prior to your workout.
Most experts are stuck in the calories in calories out theory. However, they are wrong. Two studies will be published in the next year that will turn this on its head.
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battered chicken = proof there is a god
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The real reason TA turned this down is because he would be exposed about Jezebelle. Jezebelle is really one of his sisters friends, she is not TA's girlfriend. The last time TA had pussy was when pussy had him.
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battered chicken = proof there is a god
I'd be happy to ship you a bucket of Colonel Eyeballs Chicken...
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I'd be happy to ship you a bucket of Colonel Eyeballs Chicken...
Thinking about getting a Double Down on my way home today.
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I could not care less about the 'debate.' I can't believe he passed on a free trip on MindSpin's nickle. I would have been in that mini-bar before the bellhop put my luggage down. ;D
:D
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It's not about specific foods, it's about willpower
It's literally all mental, dieting is a state of mind
and most people simply can't handle it
You're mind plays trick on you while dieting - which leads to seeking out strange diets.
get your mind off food and embrace the hunger pangs
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Thinking about getting a Double Down on my way home today.
I want one
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Fat ladies have been cutting calories for decades. Has it worked? Obesity is at an all-time high. The fact is, most people fail at their calorie cutting diets and end up worse of than they were. In their futile attempt to reduce calories, all they manage to do is slow down their metabolism. Eventually, when they cant's stick to their diets any longer, and begin to eat again, they rebound, gain their fat back and then some. It's a vicious cycle.
So what's his solution? An atkins diet? That also has been shown to be very difficult to follow and most say it's nonesense.
Fact is you still have to eat less, or burn more.
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I have a newspaper and am going to take a calories out and then resume reading this
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It's not about specific foods, it's about willpower
It's literally all mental, dieting is a state of mind
and most people simply can't handle it
You're mind plays trick on you while dieting - which leads to seeking out strange diets.
get your mind off food and embrace the hunger pangs
That's actually another misconception. Some people do have stronger will power than others, but eventually everyone gives in. You can't stay on a low carb or low calorie diet indefinitely.
Think of it like holding your breath under water. Some may be able to do it longer than others, but eventually biology takes over and all of us come up for air.
"dieting" is also at the mercy of our biology, which is why it does not work long term.
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The problem is that to most people (i.e. the general obese population), "diet" is something you do for eight weeks that fixes things permanently, then you go back to eating shit straight from the tap. "Diet" needs to be a lifestyle if you want to lose weight and keep it off.
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this thread is useless without pics if Jizzbell
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The problem is that to most people (i.e. the general obese population), "diet" is something you do for eight weeks that fixes things permanently, then you go back to eating shit straight from the tap. "Diet" needs to be a lifestyle if you want to lose weight and keep it off.
It can't be a "lifestyle" if it's not sustainable. Cutting calories is not sustainable as has been shown by the millions of failures over the last 40 years.
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The problem I have with the idea of being "on a diet" is that your entire mindset and day centers around food.
You're always thinking about it.
The times that most people lose weight are when they're incredibly busy with work etc, family issues, tragedy etc, and your mind is not preoccupied with food, it's almost the last thing on your mind and the weight loss often isn't intentional
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MindSpin:
You're not refuting the science behind calorie restriction - but you are saying that it isn't manageable for the general public due to lack of willpower etc.....
???
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MindSpin:
You're not refuting the science behind calorie restriction - but you are saying that it isn't manageable for the general public due to lack of willpower etc.....
???
I think he's just replying to every post in the thread that doesn't say "yes MindSpin you are right!!!".
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MindSpin:
You're not refuting the science behind calorie restriction - but you are saying that it isn't manageable for the general public due to lack of willpower etc.....
???
A calorie is not a calorie once it enters the human body.
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A calorie is not a calorie once it enters the human body.
Relative to your daily basal energy expenditure it is.
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I just lost 11lbs and I'm not any hungrier than usual. Just by cutting calories.
Took a big shit??
I would like to hear people's opinions on this. Obesity rates have gone up steadily in the past 60 years or so. The proportion of obese people who are extremely obese has also gone up a lot. Why does Getbig think this is? I see three reasons:
(1) People in previous generations were more physically active in their everyday lives
(2) People in previous generations ate less food
(3) People in previous generations ate healthier food
These are relatively simple things to change.
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Relative to your daily basal energy expenditure it is.
Your daily energy expenditure is a function of more than the activity you are doing. It's also a function of what you are eating.
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A calorie is not a calorie once it enters the human body.
I never saw any point to joining the debate. Only someone unable to read (or let's be honest, understand) basic physiology would believe "a calorie is a calorie". :)
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Your daily energy expenditure is a function of more than the activity you are doing. It's also a function of what you are eating.
I agree, you can calculate your BEE and unless the kinds of foods you're eating fluctuate extremely it will remain the same.
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Took a big shit??
I would like to hear people's opinions on this. Obesity rates have gone up steadily in the past 60 years or so. The proportion of obese people who are extremely obese has also gone up a lot. Why does Getbig think this is? I see three reasons:
(1) People in previous generations were more physically active in their everyday lives
(2) People in previous generations ate less food
(3) People in previous generations ate healthier food
These are relatively simple things to change.
People in previous generations didn't have the McDonald's $1 menu? ;D
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I never saw any point to joining the debate. Only someone unable to read (or let's be honest, understand) basic physiology would believe "a calorie is a calorie". :)
I totally agree.
Everyone that bodybuilds should understand the basic concept of Ketosis.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm
Atkins understood this.
Most old school weightloss programs also incorporated this.
Although there are lots of guys that would rather use insulin, or other voodoo science, then to actually understand the natural cycles of the body.
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:o
I just bought a big mac and a sprite zero for 10$.
You could have gotten 1660 calories for $5 by ordering the following from the McDonald's $1 Menu:
2 McDoubles (390 x 2) 780 cal
2 Apple Pies (260 x 2) 520 cal
1 McChicken 360 cal
1 Small Diet Coke ;D 0 cal
;D
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It can't be a "lifestyle" if it's not sustainable. Cutting calories is not sustainable as has been shown by the millions of failures over the last 40 years.
I think most people fail because of impatience. Out of impatience, they cut too many calories, workout too much and too hard. They expect to make some deadline, i.e. change of season, birthday, event. They set themselves up for failure. Everything is a rush; they think amazing short transformations are the norm. They think that little changes won't do anything, when it's these little changes that are the key to longevity, and are quite easy to sustain.
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I totally agree.
Everyone that bodybuilds should understand the basic concept of Ketosis.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm
Atkins understood this.
Most old school weightloss programs also incorporated this.
Although there are lots of guys that would rather use insulin, or other voodoo science, then to actually understand the natural cycles of the body.
A lot of people won't do the work. It's a lot easier to take drugs or even follow an oversimplified diet to lose weight. I remember reading one of the Aumbass Principles threads a few years back and it was essentially a modified Atkins. It's probably different now but I'm not very fat and probably wouldn't use something like that to lose weight.
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WOW, so cheap in the US. I guess thats why people are so fat.
x2
The main thing I noticed when visiting the US was portion sizes!
Huge portion sizes compared to the UK
I loved it.
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The protein requirement of bodybuilders is not determined by what characters on discussion boards believe. Only independent, peer reviewed, exercise science-nutrition studies can achieve that. It will be a sad day if the protein requirement is high. I await these new studies. Hopefully, they will be legitimate studies done at a first rate university that is known for its human nutrition department.
What is Mindspin's stake in this debate? He loses credibility if he is but a pawn in Connelly's scheme.
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I despise Mindspin but he is correct as he done it the right way like everyone who ever dieted for a show ... and yes adonis was thouroughly owned
oh well ... on a side note I banged a hot 36 yo MILF tnite ...life is gud as ujual
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x2
The main thing I noticed when visiting the US wasportion sizes!
Huge portion sizes compared to the UK
I loved it.
Great point. I was going to note this. Portion sizes are %33-50 larger in US McDicks. But for real portions go to a Outhouse Steakhouse or a Denny's and they give you literally 2-3 meals on one plate. And studies have repeatedly shown that humans tend to (or try to) eat what is put in front of them. You do the math.
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A lot of people won't do the work. It's a lot easier to take drugs or even follow an oversimplified diet to lose weight. I remember reading one of the Aumbass Principles threads a few years back and it was essentially a modified Atkins. It's probably different now but I'm not very fat and probably wouldn't use something like that to lose weight.
The only show I did I used a carb cycling diet. Which really caps the lows of Atkins, because you only go into Ketosis for about a day and a half a week..
Found I lost weight too fast with it and came in way too light.
Now I just follow a few simple rules to maintain.
No Sugary Drinks and no fries.
Too many empty calories and really play around with insulin levels.
If I was to do another show, which I won't, I would follow a similar carb cycling plan, however I would really watch my fat intake. Most likely using some type of fish oil supplement.
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The protein requirement of bodybuilders is not determined by what characters on discussion boards believe. Only independent, peer reviewed, exercise science-nutrition studies can achieve that. It will be a sad day if the protein requirement is high. I await these new studies. Hopefully, they will be legitimate studies done at a first rate university that is known for its human nutrition department.
What is Mindspin's stake in this debate? He loses credibility if he is but a pawn in Connelly's scheme.
Here's the problem.... legitimately calculating a bodybuilder's protein/caloric need is pretty much impossible. Bodybuilders define their need by whatever the current physique goal is, it's individual. Also, response to protein would depend on organ function, drugs taken, genetics and even exercise done.
Up to the mid 90's people (scientists) were convinced the kidneys couldn't process more than 23 grams at a time.
If you're trying to build muscle protein is important. I'd rather not see scientists waste time/money on crap we already know. Instead I'd like to see an unbiased study on bioavailability and renal clearance of the various proteins people are always selling. I'll bet all the stuff made from cartilage is damn near useless. I'd also like to see precisely how much of whatever the best protein has to be taken before we piss it out. We should also find out the effects of whole food protein on nitrogen balance versus stuff out of a tub... long and short term.
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If he truly believed what he was preaching, he would take the free trip and go debate it. That said, I've always been of the belief that a calorie is not just a calorie. I'd love to read otherwise, though.
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The protein requirement of bodybuilders is not determined by what characters on discussion boards believe. Only independent, peer reviewed, exercise science-nutrition studies can achieve that. It will be a sad day if the protein requirement is high. I await these new studies. Hopefully, they will be legitimate studies done at a first rate university that is known for its human nutrition department.
What is Mindspin's stake in this debate? He loses credibility if he is but a pawn in Connelly's scheme.
I have nothing to gain here. I'm not on Scott's payroll. I simply want to see the debate happen. I think it would be hilarious.
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I don't care what you guys say, TA and Wavelength are 100% correct. Using their methods I am learner and stronger then ever before! :o
I too have used the TA principles and they do work. These diet charlatans just want to continue to bamboozle the public and get rich doing it.
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I too have used the TA principles and they do work. These diet charlatans just want to continue to bamboozle the public and get rich doing it.
So then TA has everything to gain by going out there and proving him wrong.
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I have nothing to gain here. I'm not on Scott's payroll. I simply want to see the debate happen. I think it would be hilarious.
MS,
You have absolutely demolished Adam by epic proportions! I still can't believe anyone in their right mind take this severe wanna be seriously!
Also, don't waste your time trying to explain anything nutrition related to the esteemed panel of resident derelicts we possess here on GB! :D
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I have nothing to gain here. I'm not on Scott's payroll. I simply want to see the debate happen. I think it would be hilarious.
Well, I think you have to make an effort to assure TA that this 'meeting' won't be some kind of ambush. Perhaps, extend some kind of itinerary and, because you want to video this, some kind of limits as to what and what cannot be taped, or, signed off on. And given what little you've said MindSpin, there's an awful lot of room for, er, ambiguity. You and TA, and an independent party on both ends, would be best served, by hammering out a few logistical details. I know a lot here want to see a trainwreck, but let's try to keep it fair.
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MS,
You have to promise Adonis full access to Wiki during their discussion. :)
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For years he has been touting that his "adonis principles" are the ideal way to eat in order to gain muscle/lose fat. These principles are, of course, complete bullshit.
I offered to fly him & his "girlfriend" to California (at my expense) so that he may debate this with Dr. Scott Connelly. I would, of course videotape everything and post it on GB. Unfortunately, he came up with 15 pages of excuses (see link below), thus exposing himself as a complete fraud :-\
The fact remains - calorie counting is useless.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=328439.375;topicseen
the fact is Adamn doesn't have the proper english vocabulary to do ANY interviews as he does with his google copy paste techniques, case in point ::)
I can just imagine him being outed by an actual doctor, it's easy to type crap, harder to speak, you should practise your voice more, brah!
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MS,
You have to promise Adonis full access to Wiki during their discussion. :)
LOL. Would you settle for one of those earpieces and a buddy in a nearby van with a computer, like so many '80's movies?
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LOL. Would you settle for one of those earpieces and a buddy in a nearby van with a computer, like so many '80's movies?
I Basile has a van. ;D
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So then TA has everything to gain by going out there and proving him wrong.
well he doesnt have a team of scientists to bring with him, plus who knows what can happen by meeting a bunch of nut jobs from Southern California ::). WHo knows what they will do to him. He has to think about Jezzebelle you know.
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LOL. Would you settle for one of those earpieces and a buddy in a nearby van with a computer, like so many '80's movies?
Adonis' internet Kung Fu is stronger than Dr. Connelly's.
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Has anyone here ever heard of the term nutrient density.
Question to all the TA followers, if you eat table sugar vs a nutrient dense carb, is a calorie just a calorie? ;D
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well he doesnt have a team of scientists to bring with him, plus who knows what can happen by meeting a bunch of nut jobs from Southern California ::). WHo knows what they will do to him. He has to think about Jezzebelle you know.
Debates happen every day. He'd have to prepare his argument and hope it stands up against Dr. Connelly's. This isn't some foreign concept. I personally think it would be an interesting debate.
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I'm going to state this once, and then leave it for the Adam/Connelly debate.
Connelly believes that you can take a pair of monozygotic twins and put them both on an identical training regimen and identical caloric consumption. However, if one is getting his calories primarily from protein, and the other is getting his calories primarily from carbs, they will end up with differing body composition. In spite of the fact that both twins are burning & consuming the same amount of calories, the twin that is consuming primarily protein will end up with more muscle and lower body fat.
That is the oversimplified position. Like I said before, I'm not going to spend hours on here reading through Adonis cut & paste nonsense. The best way to settle this is to get the two together and see it debated.
Of course calories in calories out is all that matters regarding weight gain, loss, maintenance. But you are correct with your example as well. Because though the calories in may be the same but calories out is not. There is a metabolic cost of converting protein to glucose. TA thinks it's trivial but in the long run it's not. Though the calculations vary we can reasonably go with 10%. So with a 3,000 calories/day diet that's a 300 caloric deficit. That's 2,100 calories per week.
Also, your body can live just on protein alone since protein can be converted to glucose and used for energy. Carbohydrates cannot be converted into amino acids. So with a diet primarily composed of carbohydrates it would have to break down muscle tissue to get the required amount of amino acids.
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Imagine that, excuses.
And it was such a good offer by Mindspin too.
How could one refuse that?
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Adonis' internet Kung Fu is stronger than Dr. Connelly's.
Relatively speaking, TA's Google Fu is 10th Dan, Coach's is white belt.
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We just had a presentation at my graduate seminar today on how the main factor in fat loss is caloric intake, specifically the amount of fat intake, but that lowering it to levels sufficient to lose lots of fat may be infeasible. The secondary factors were total daily caloric intake and energy balance prior to your workout.
WRONG!!! Weight loss perhaps, but FAT loss no.....there is a huge diff btwn sacrificing lean body mass just to lose weight and holding onto LBM while shedding only fat...the 1st will result in the viscious Oprah Winfrey Yo-Yo dieting syndrome 99% of fat women adhere to. Seriously, ask any natty competetive BB and they'll tell you it's all about feeding the muscles with adequate protein and controlling insulin responses. That's macronutrient 101
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Adonis believes that in order to get ripped you must cut calories (Connelly disagrees). Adonis also believes that as long as you consume .5 - 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight, you could consume anything else you want and still lose fat gain muscle (Connelly disagrees).
You may not have to cut calories to lose weight but you will have to burn more calories than you consume and that can be done by manipulating your macro nutrient profile.
You misrepresent TA's position. As long as you get your protein requirements you can eat anything you want just not as much as you want. You will still have to be in a caloric deficit if your goal is to lose weight.
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A calorie is not a calorie once it enters the human body.
Correct.
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Of course calories in calories out is all that matters regarding weight gain, loss, maintenance. But you are correct with your example as well. Because though the calories in may be the same but calories out is not. There is a metabolic cost of converting protein to glucose. TA thinks it's trivial but in the long run it's not. Though the calculations vary we can reasonably go with 10%. So with a 3,000 calories/day diet that's a 300 caloric deficit. That's 2,100 calories per week.
Also, your body can live just on protein alone since protein can be converted to glucose and used for energy. Carbohydrates cannot be converted into amino acids. So with a diet primarily composed of carbohydrates it would have to break down muscle tissue to get the required amount of amino acids.
You can live without carbs, but you do need essential fats in your diet.
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New Lyric:
How many Peer Reviewed Studies does a man have to read, before he realizes the Adonis Principles are correct? The answer my friend, is Blowing in the Wind...
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My point is that nobody on this forum in a world authority in human nutrition. Many consider they are expert re nutrition for bodybuilding. However, I doubt much is really known about this area because it has not been studied independently because there is little academic interest in bodybuilders. The supplement companies are keenly interested and have sponsored some research but that is not what I call independent research.
Usually,we have to extrapolate from nutrition studies with athletes and/or the general population. Almost nothing is known about the nutritional needs of professional and amateur bodybuilders.
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You can live without carbs, but you do need essential fats in your diet.
Truth. I was thinking about a tribe living in some frozen tundra that eat only protein (caribou) but they also get their fats from the meat.
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New Lyric:
How many Peer Reviewed Studies does a man have to read, before he realizes the Adonis Principles are correct? The answer my friend, is Blowing in the Wind...
Then take the free trip. You have everything to win and nothing to lose if you are correct.
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Hate to break it to you:
This already has been done with hundreds like it.
The results are in.
The Consensus is made.
How many do I have to post?
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WN4-4C4FMW6-JJ&_user=10&_coverDate=03/31/1964&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1285740643&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d2a738c61fcc81eb3c0871f97b08f081
Calories do count
Laurance W. Kinsell M.D.a, Barbara Gunning Ph.D.a, George D. Michaels Ph.D.a, James Richardson M.D.a, Stephen E. Cox M.D.a and Calvin Lemon M.D.a
aThe Institute for Metabolic Research, Highland-Alameda County Hospital, Oakland, Calif., USA
Received 27 November 1963. Available online 10 April 2004.
Abstract
There have been statements in the medical and the lay literature to the effect that weight loss occurs more rapidly with diets high in fat and protein asc compared to equi-caloric diets containing large amounts of carbohydrate. In the present study, subjects have been maintained for many weeks on constant calorie intake. At intervals, the composition of the diet has been changed, the fat intake varying from 12 to 83 per cent, protein from 14 to 36 per cent, and carbohydrate from 3 to 64 per cent of total calories. In any given subject, the rate of weight loss was essentially constant throughout the entire study. It is therefore obvious that the significant factor responsible for weight loss is reduction of calories, irrespective of the composition of the diet.
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lovely song
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The fraudulent claims of Calories not being the main culprit is one of the VERY FUCKING reasons people are so confused when it comes time to eat.
You then put impossible (fraudulent) limits on what they can and cannot eat which results in a high rate of failure as misery with limited food choices sets in.
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The protein requirement of bodybuilders is not determined by what characters on discussion boards believe. Only independent, peer reviewed, exercise science-nutrition studies can achieve that. It will be a sad day if the protein requirement is high. I await these new studies. Hopefully, they will be legitimate studies done at a first rate university that is known for its human nutrition department.
What is Mindspin's stake in this debate? He loses credibility if he is but a pawn in Connelly's scheme.
A pound of lean beef is about 100 grams of protein. I don't know what the minimum protein requirements are to take care of all the nutritional needs and optimal health of a 200 pound man but would he not need to be at some surplus eventually totaling 100 grams to gain a pound of muscle?
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You tell a person who is a food connoisseur that he can only eat dry Chicken and Microwaved oats, you better believe he is more than likely going to fail.
Who would want to put themselves through such Sadomasochism for no reason whatsoever?
Don`t be surprised if they fail.
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Does anyone here know what insulin does to the extra carbs you eat, cheesecake factory chessecake has 1400+++ calories and thats for dessert :D
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You tell a person who is a food connoisseur that he can only eat dry Chicken and Microwaved oats, you better believe he is more than likely going to fail.
Who would want to put themselves through such Sadomasochism for no reason whatsoever?
Don`t be surprised if they fail.
Google the phrase "I accept" and post that shit.
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Why don't you just accept the challenge and be done with it?
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Why don't you just accept the challenge and be done with it?
There is no challenge. I WANTED the challenge of putting together an experiment and then a debate.
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I WANT a debate.
Done.
Set it up, MS.
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Truth. I was thinking about a tribe living in some frozen tundra that eat only protein (caribou) but they also get their fats from the meat.
Agree. The Inuit from our Far North and the South Pacific Islanders have had their 'normal' heavy-based protein diet and their carb-sparing food intake/metabolism devastated by imported (mostly cheap carbs like alcohol and 'Pringles') durables. This has resulted in rates of diabetes nearing 50% of local population. These are the studies that these diet gurus should note.
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it's like I stepped into a time machine and got out in 06....this place never changes.
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There is no challenge. I WANTED the challenge of putting together an experiment and then a debate.
Well then do that and have MindSpin fly you and you (Jez) out to the debate portion and git er dun! Sittin' on the computer typing all damn day sure as hell isn't gonna get the job done. And while your at it...during the debate, deadlift the 225 for 112 reps in 5 minutes...that would be "da coolest".
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it's like I stepped into a time machine and got out in 06....this place never changes.
Tell the future hello, spaceman.
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it's like I stepped into a time machine and got out in 06....this place never changes.
LOL. Wahay, al. What's the word, Van Halen-wise? ;D
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There is no challenge. I WANTED the challenge of putting together an experiment and then a debate.
Do that on your own dime. Whoever plays the piper calls the tune. Just be a man and say in a straight forward way that you decline the challenge and stop making excuses.
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Two studies will be published in the next year that will turn this on its head.
I doubt it. Are these some kind of Progenex sponsored studies? The kind that showed HMB to be an extremely effective muscle builder (and which Connelly no doubt based his Met-Rx HMB inclusion on)?
What do you think of Connelly using rats and pictures of a dude on corticosteroids as proof of his theories?
I don't like TA's style and he has definitely modified his stance greatly. He used to say protein intake didn't matter at all. He's been trolling and bullshitting most of the time.
But I also think Connelly is a bit of a conman and he has ulterior motives (selling his special proteins). Using rats and people with diseases on drugs which change metabolism greatly as proof is absolutely ridiculous. And saying calorie counting is useless and calories do not matter at all is even more ridiculous. So if a person ate 1500 grams of protein a day all those calories would vanish into thin air? Why don't more bodybuilders overeat certain macronutrients precontest if calories do not matter? Most are starving and drinking 10 of shakes of Connelly's protein a day would certainly help cravings. That Met-Rx certainly used to taste real good, like candy to me. But energy intake does matter obviously, no one really believes it doesn't.
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Adonis, stop debating this online. No one is reading your longwinded cut & paste nonsense. But EVERYONE will watch the video. What are you afraid of?
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Natural Al!! What do you think of Chickenfoot? Where you been?
Anyway, this sh*t is never gonna happen just like the fight between TA and DA....so to "better" this thread, may as well drop this link again:
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808411960/trailer
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it's like I stepped into a time machine and got out in 06....this place never changes.
What would make you think anything would change? I niece now works for McDonalds and from what I hear it's just the same as when I worked there over 20 years ago. Human nature is constant.
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I doubt it. Are these some kind of Progenex sponsored studies? The kind that showed HMB to be an extremely effective muscle builder (and which Connelly no doubt based his Met-Rx HMB inclusion on)?
What do you think of Connelly using rats and pictures of a dude on corticosteroids as proof of his theories?
I don't like TA's style and he has definitely modified his stance greatly. He used to say protein intake didn't matter at all. He's been trolling and bullshitting most of the time.
But I also think Connelly is a bit of a conman and he has ulterior motives (selling his special proteins). Using rats and people with diseases on drugs which change metabolism greatly as proof is absolutely ridiculous. And saying calorie counting is useless and calories do not matter at all is even more ridiculous. So if a person ate 1500 grams of protein a day all those calories would vanish into thin air? Why don't more bodybuilders overeat certain macronutrients precontest if calories do not matter? Most are starving and drinking 10 of shakes of Connelly's protein a day would certainly help cravings. That Met-Rx certainly used to taste real good, like candy to me. But energy intake does matter obviously, no one really believes it doesn't.
None of this has anything to do with Progenex.
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None of this has anything to do with Progenex.
Can you give any info on the studies? Who does them and what do they attempt to show?
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Adonis, stop debating this online. No one is reading your longwinded cut & paste nonsense. But EVERYONE will watch the video. What are you afraid of?
EXACTLY!!!! He keeps saying that it's all already been said and proven but keeps stating and restating his position HERE but will not debate anyone live and in person.
I really don't get it. I thought he's jump at the opportunity to debate a suppose authority.
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Most experts are stuck in the calories in calories out theory. However, they are wrong. Two studies will be published in the next year that will turn this on its head.
In other words the expert consensus is that caloric consumption is the primary determinant of body comp., but you claim that there are two as of yet unpublished studies that will prove otherwise. On the basis of your bald assertion and the one additional fact that TA would not fly out to California for to serve as your strawman, you would like us to dismiss the preponderance of evidence.
Is that a fair summary?
Did you consider that TA's refusal might have nothing to do with the veracity of his theories, but might have more to do with the fact that you have not offered him any payment for his time and effort?
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None of this has anything to do with the topic @ hand
Just wanted to type, nice owning Spin. <tipping hat>
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EXACTLY!!!! He keeps saying that it's all already been said and proven but keeps stating and restating his position HERE but will not debate anyone live and in person.
I really don't get it. I thought he's jump at the opportunity to debate a suppose authority.
He knows that he would not be able to hold his own. At the end of the day, he's just another basement dwelling troll.
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Just wanted to type, nice owning Spin. <tipping hat>
:)
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In other words the expert consensus is that caloric consumption is the primary determinant of body comp., but you claim that there are two as of yet unpublished studies that will prove otherwise. On the basis of your bald assertion and the one additional fact that TA would not fly out to California for to serve as your strawman, you would like us to dismiss the preponderance of evidence.
Is that a fair summary?
Did you consider that TA's refusal might have nothing to do with the veracity of his theories, but might have more to do with the fact that you have not offered him any payment for his time and effort?
All expense paid trip to Cali?
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:)
seriously though, you should ban him or automatically delete all of his BS from this site. i hate motherfuckers who claim they are so called gurus but dont have the balls to stand up for the BS they preach
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it's like I stepped into a time machine and got out in 06....this place never changes.
Its Not 2006?
Welcome back NATURAL AL!!!
We have missed you!
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In other words the expert consensus is that caloric consumption is the primary determinant of body comp., but you claim that there are two as of yet unpublished studies that will prove otherwise. On the basis of your bald assertion and the one additional fact that TA would not fly out to California for to serve as your strawman, you would like us to dismiss the preponderance of evidence.
Is that a fair summary?
Did you consider that TA's refusal might have nothing to do with the veracity of his theories, but might have more to do with the fact that you have not offered him any payment for his time and effort?
BS... if you make a name for yourself for telling people BS, an all-expense-paid-trip for him and his gf should be enough
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In other words the expert consensus is that caloric consumption is the primary determinant of body comp., but you claim that there are two as of yet unpublished studies that will prove otherwise. On the basis of your bald assertion and the one additional fact that TA would not fly out to California for to serve as your strawman, you would like us to dismiss the preponderance of evidence.
Is that a fair summary?
Did you consider that TA's refusal might have nothing to do with the veracity of his theories, but might have more to do with the fact that you have not offered him any payment for his time and effort?
I offered an all expenses paid trip to CA for him AND his girlfriend. It's a free weekend trip to cali ::)
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I doubt it. Are these some kind of Progenex sponsored studies? The kind that showed HMB to be an extremely effective muscle builder (and which Connelly no doubt based his Met-Rx HMB inclusion on)?
What do you think of Connelly using rats and pictures of a dude on corticosteroids as proof of his theories?
I don't like TA's style and he has definitely modified his stance greatly. He used to say protein intake didn't matter at all. He's been trolling and bullshitting most of the time.
But I also think Connelly is a bit of a conman and he has ulterior motives (selling his special proteins). Using rats and people with diseases on drugs which change metabolism greatly as proof is absolutely ridiculous. And saying calorie counting is useless and calories do not matter at all is even more ridiculous. So if a person ate 1500 grams of protein a day all those calories would vanish into thin air? Why don't more bodybuilders overeat certain macronutrients precontest if calories do not matter? Most are starving and drinking 10 of shakes of Connelly's protein a day would certainly help cravings. That Met-Rx certainly used to taste real good, like candy to me. But energy intake does matter obviously, no one really believes it doesn't.
I have never changed my "stance". I just clarified it since most could not understand that I wasn`t talking about snacking on lightbulbs and cardboard for calories. True story- Many thought this to be the case!
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I also figure if Scott Connelly wants to contact me, he will.
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I also figure if Scott Connelly wants to contact me, he will.
YES OR NO?
do you accept the trip /debate in Cali or not?
i made your job easier, the following is the google link for "yes":
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=yes&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
and this is the google link for "no":
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&hs=rjE&rls=en&q=no&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
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Fuck I'd debate Jesus Christ himself telling him he is full of shit for free air fare & a few nights in a Holiday Inn.
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Fuck I'd debate Jesus Christ himself telling him he is full of shit for free air fare & a few nights holiday inn.
You must be desperate for a vacation.
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You must be desperate for a vacation.
Working for the man sucks! :-\
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I will have to agree with mindspin in this one! Calorie counting is not the best way to lose fat...
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Fuck I'd debate Jesus Christ himself telling him he is full of shit for free air fare & a few nights in a Holiday Inn.
LMAO x100
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I offered an all expenses paid trip to CA for him AND his girlfriend. It's a free weekend trip to cali ::)
:)
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I`ll be back, GYM TIME!
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Adonis, stop debating this online. No one is reading your longwinded cut & paste nonsense. But EVERYONE will watch the video. What are you afraid of?
Most of us know Adam trolled and bulshitted
for years.
I liked when he claimed to be a racing greyhound owner
giving out numbers and bragging, then completely exposed as a fraud.
This would be more fun a few years ago when he made outrageous claims.
Now he modified his stance, since true experts made him look silly and he
googled and realized he was wrong.
Now he is only fooling a few clueless kids or tards.
This offer is similiar to the one Milos gave Squidfather, fly here and train,
prove how strong you are I pay the plane ticket.
Squidfather never trained in his whole life had 5dollar saved in his tincan
shit in his pants.
There will always be troll retard hybrids making stupid claims on the internet.
Debating them only makes them feel important.
Giving Adam exposure is not good.
He can use the video, edit it and scam
Overweight victims with the video.
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I think the only solution to this is kidnapping Adonis and have him do the debate under the threat of 1000v electric shocks to his testicles.
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I think the only solution to this is kidnapping Adonis and have him do the debate under the threat of 1000v electric shocks to his testicles.
Your under the assumption he has testis I see.
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I`ll be back, GYM TIME!
Delete the two threads before he returns.
Nothing to see here.
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I think the only solution to this is kidnapping Adonis and have him do the debate under the threat of 1000v electric shocks to his testicles.
No. All he had to do is act like a man and say that he declines instead of making excuses and debating his points here. I wonder, Spin, if you get Dr. C. to post here just to extend the invitation you made would TA accept then? Or would he make further excuses, try to debate him here which will only further his owning.
Just have Dr. C. make the offer accepting only a yes or no answer as he doesn't have the time or desire to debate over the net.
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I`ll be back, GYM TIME!
You're one dense guy!
You're perfectly willing to post senseless bullshit about going to the gym, but you cannot...CANNOT seem to type a simple YES or NO.
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I will have to agree with mindspin in this one! Calorie counting is not the best way to lose fat...
Just counting calories isn't the best way. You should make sure you have enough essential nutrients for health, muscle preservation, etc. But that not how Mindspin puts it.
He says:
Adonis believes that in order to get ripped you must cut calories (Connelly disagrees).
So in other words a, say 400lb man who wants to lose weight can continue to eat 10,000+ calories a day but will get ripped if the macronutrient ratio is "correct"? Who really believes this? No one, not even Mindspin and Connelly. Calories do come into play.
Take a bb who is almost only eating trace carbs, tons of protein, and a little healthy fat. He is still not ripped enough and contest is rapidly approaching. What does he need to do to get ripped in time? Increase calorie expenditure and/or reduce calories. Simple as that.
Since googling isn't the way to prove anything here, let's examine how contest prep gurus work in the real world. I haven't seen a single one who recommends unlimited amounts of protein or any macronurient. Because calories matter.
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The real reason TA turned this down is because he would be exposed about Jezebelle. Jezebelle is really one of his sisters friends, she is not TA's girlfriend. The last time TA had pussy was when pussy had him.
ROFL never heard that one before
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TA is a legend, who the f is 'dr.scott connelly' ::)
TA just do it, its a totally free trip to cali for you and your gf, nobody really gives a rats ass about the 'debate', hell you could just make a joke of it and bs the whole thing, or skip it entirely and do something else haha
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Connelly Diet - 3,000 to 4,000 calories
1 Bucket of KFC - 1725 calories
So if my caloric intake is equal to 2 buckets of KFC Fried Chicken but my macro-nutrients are balanced...I'm still going to lose weight...... ::)
I'm sorry but I used to follow the 300-400 grams of protein a day and etc. But now I know better. In order for the body to burn fat, it has to be in a caloric deficiency and need the extra calories for fuel.
Adonis is right. Calories do count and while you can't just eat candy and sugar all day, you certainly can't fall for nutritional nonsense thats being circulated to sell more protein powder.
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I'm going to state this once, and then leave it for the Adam/Connelly debate.
Connelly believes that you can take a pair of monozygotic twins and put them both on an identical training regimen and identical caloric consumption. However, if one is getting his calories primarily from protein, and the other is getting his calories primarily from carbs, they will end up with differing body composition. In spite of the fact that both twins are burning & consuming the same amount of calories, the twin that is consuming primarily protein will end up with more muscle and lower body fat.
That is the oversimplified position. Like I said before, I'm not going to spend hours on here reading through Adonis cut & paste nonsense. The best way to settle this is to get the two together and see it debated.
Can Dr. Connelly or yourself site those sources? Not doubting one bit, but for the last month I've been reading some studies about monozygotic twins compared with dizygotic twins suggesting that genetic factors contribute to dietary intake.
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I also figure if Scott Connelly wants to contact me, he will.
Like he has time to contact an internet troll.
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The bottom line is Adam is not an expert in nutrition so would be easily embarrassed by someone with a PhD in nutrition. It is one thing to post on Getbig and quite another to debate with an highly educated person. This David is not going to slay any Giant from academia.
Why doesn't Dr Connelly post here on Getbig. Now that would be an event. Let him answer questions from the knowledgeable people here and see where this goes. Should be interesting.
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Oh my god this is still going on. Guys like Apenis and Goodrum feed off the internet fame. No way in hell can they be anything successful in real life so they live their life through the internet and think because people talk about them, then they are famous and successful. Neither of them realize everyone is laughing at them.
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apenis is a raging homosexual with delusions of grandeur.
that is all.
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Oh my god this is still going on. Guys like Apenis and Goodrum feed off the internet fame. No way in hell can they be anything successful in real life so they live their life through the internet and think because people talk about them, then they are famous and successful. Neither of them realize everyone is laughing at them.
Do you think people laughed at him while wrestling??
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Oh my god this is still going on. Guys like Apenis and Goodrum feed off the internet fame. No way in hell can they be anything successful in real life so they live their life through the internet and think because people talk about them, then they are famous and successful. Neither of them realize everyone is laughing at them.
See, stuff like this dude. Like I said, you WERE something. Now you are the equivalent to that giant chick in What's Eating Gilbert Grape.
Meanwhile, Goodrum and Adonis are still young, and getting better and better.
As for everyone laughing at them, what do you think people are doing when you ride around Walmart in that fat guy wheelchair thing?
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The bottom line is Adam is not an expert in nutrition so would be easily embarrassed by someone with a PhD in nutrition. It is one thing to post on Getbig and quite another to debate with an highly educated person. This David is not going to slay any Giant from academia.
Why doesn't Dr Connelly post here on Getbig. Now that would be an event. Let him answer questions from the knowledgeable people here and see where this goes. Should be interesting.
No, bottom line is that nutrition is not this mystical force only a select few understand. This guy is banking on a few things:
Insulin released from food
Hormonal manipulations and timing
Protein digestion rates
And finally the 'super nutrition' concept.
Do you really think any of this matters? Look at Adonis and look at a comparable (genetics) drug free guy that follows that BS religiously. Any difference? Not really.
The hormonal response stuff is generally bullshit when it comes to the idea of using it for performance enhancement. If it does help, it is only doing so a little, and it will very from person to person.
How many more studies do you need?
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No. All he had to do is act like a man and say that he declines instead of making excuses and debating his points here. I wonder, Spin, if you get Dr. C. to post here just to extend the invitation you made would TA accept then? Or would he make further excuses, try to debate him here which will only further his owning.
Just have Dr. C. make the offer accepting only a yes or no answer as he doesn't have the time or desire to debate over the net.
Why don't they just do the case study? 1 dude follows Adonis's stuff, the other guy gets fat, er, I mean does the bodybuilding diet. Have them both tested (just use the air fair and hotel money), and then measure the gains/losses.
Just debating would not work. Everyone blindly follows that crap, and Adonis will be walking into a controlled situation with him set up to fail.
You need a case study type thing.
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The bottom line is Adam is not an expert in nutrition so would be easily embarrassed by someone with a PhD in nutrition. It is one thing to post on Getbig and quite another to debate with an highly educated person. This David is not going to slay any Giant from academia.
Why doesn't Dr Connelly post here on Getbig. Now that would be an event. Let him answer questions from the knowledgeable people here and see where this goes. Should be interesting.
Why would someone actually busy doing stuff argue on-line with someone who literally lacks the capacity to distinguish between information and knowledge?
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The bottom line is Adam is not an expert in nutrition so would be easily embarrassed by someone with a PhD in nutrition. It is one thing to post on Getbig and quite another to debate with an highly educated person. This David is not going to slay any Giant from academia.
Why doesn't Dr Connelly post here on Getbig. Now that would be an event. Let him answer questions from the knowledgeable people here and see where this goes. Should be interesting.
Yeah, well, 'neither are you, Vince. You've been telling us for, like, forever, that you have the philosopher's stone for muscular hypertrophy, but for some reason you just can't. won't. shouldn't. articulate such a theory. Oh. Brother.
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The bottom line is Adam is not an expert in nutrition so would be easily embarrassed by someone with a PhD in nutrition. It is one thing to post on Getbig and quite another to debate with an highly educated person. This David is not going to slay any Giant from academia.
Why doesn't Dr Connelly post here on Getbig. Now that would be an event. Let him answer questions from the knowledgeable people here and see where this goes. Should be interesting.
fancy degrees dont mean shit other than that youve spent tens of thousands of dollars and countless hours/years memorizing shit out of textbooks, especially one in 'nutrition' LMAO
bottom line is everyone's body is completely different when it comes to this shit, anyone whose been at this long enough should know that genetics dictate everything. there is no 'right way' or 'wrong way', jsut what works for you and what you can get away with.
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i hope one day im rich enough to fly Internet Characters around the country to settle forum disputes in real life, haha can you imagine the hijinks that would ensue. movie plot right there
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This guy would in no way be comfortable in a sit down situation with Connelly.. especially if its taped. Not in a million years. It looks like he’s got some serious anxiety issues. I don’t think he could effectively articulate his thoughts.
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I offered an all expenses paid trip to CA for him AND his girlfriend. It's a free weekend trip to cali ::)
Cali in the summer for a whole weekend? Oh my that is quite a lavish prize, my apologies.
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fancy degrees dont mean shit other than that youve spent tens of thousands of dollars and countless hours/years memorizing shit out of textbooks, especially one in 'nutrition' LMAO
bottom line is everyone's body is completely different when it comes to this shit, anyone whose been at this long enough should know that genetics dictate everything. there is no 'right way' or 'wrong way', just what works for you and what you can get away with.
we have a winner
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anyone whose been at this long enough should know that genetics dictate everything. there is no 'right way' or 'wrong way', jsut what works for you and what you can get away with.
Exactly.
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fancy degrees dont mean shit other than that youve spent tens of thousands of dollars and countless hours/years memorizing shit out of textbooks, especially one in 'nutrition' LMAO
bottom line is everyone's body is completely different when it comes to this shit, anyone whose been at this long enough should know that genetics dictate everything. there is no 'right way' or 'wrong way', jsut what works for you and what you can get away with.
You're generally a reasonable poster so it's possible you may understand the above statement is 100% wrong.
Someone without the proper foundation lacks the ability to discriminate fact from opinion, good from bad science, or even understand why statistics make no sense. For example... you can go on Wiki, YouTube or Google and search for "laptop computer construction", yet still not be able to assemble one successfully without having an actual foundation in electronics.
See my point? :)
True, every person is a little different but the basic physiology (among typical people) is pretty standard. I'm not arguing a cookie cutter approach will every one, simply that there's a basic set of rules that apply to most people.
You can't beat genetics, though. Look at how hard VinceG has tried!
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See, stuff like this dude. Like I said, you WERE something. Now you are the equivalent to that giant chick in What's Eating Gilbert Grape.
Meanwhile, Goodrum and Adonis are still young, and getting better and better.
As for everyone laughing at them, what do you think people are doing when you ride around Walmart in that fat guy wheelchair thing?
adonis and vince are close to or over 30, and still neither have accomplished dick.
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Doing what works for you is an empty theory and therefore worthless.
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fancy degrees dont mean shit other than that youve spent tens of thousands of dollars and countless hours/years memorizing shit out of textbooks, especially one in 'nutrition' LMAO
bottom line is everyone's body is completely different when it comes to this shit, anyone whose been at this long enough should know that genetics dictate everything. there is no 'right way' or 'wrong way', jsut what works for you and what you can get away with.
Connelly agrees with that.
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Why don't they just do the case study? 1 dude follows Adonis's stuff, the other guy gets fat, er, I mean does the bodybuilding diet. Have them both tested (just use the air fair and hotel money), and then measure the gains/losses.
Just debating would not work. Everyone blindly follows that crap, and Adonis will be walking into a controlled situation with him set up to fail.
You need a case study type thing.
Exactly.
The "debate" would just be fruitless as I would just show up with a box load of studies, set them on the table and ask, "Where do we begin". I don`t think anyone would be willing to sit for hours to go through the studies on a video.
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Connelly Diet - 3,000 to 4,000 calories
1 Bucket of KFC - 1725 calories
So if my caloric intake is equal to 2 buckets of KFC Fried Chicken but my macro-nutrients are balanced...I'm still going to lose weight...... ::)
I'm sorry but I used to follow the 300-400 grams of protein a day and etc. But now I know better. In order for the body to burn fat, it has to be in a caloric deficiency and need the extra calories for fuel.
Adonis is right. Calories do count and while you can't just eat candy and sugar all day, you certainly can't fall for nutritional nonsense thats being circulated to sell more protein powder.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e196/Intenseone/joe21.jpg)
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e196/Intenseone/DSCN0315.jpg)
I never counted calories in 30 + years when I came down for shows.
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Adam, if get Connelly himself to post on here and invite you to the debate, will you accept then? We'll have Ron verify the identity.
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Can Dr. Connelly or yourself site those sources? Not doubting one bit, but for the last month I've been reading some studies about monozygotic twins compared with dizygotic twins suggesting that genetic factors contribute to dietary intake.
Mindspin can you answer this?
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Adam, if get Connelly himself to post on here and invite you to the debate, will you accept then? We'll have Ron verify the identity.
I`d like to discuss it with him as I think an experiment would certainly prove more useful for everyone than a video debate. Or a video debate after an experiment is completed. I feel confident that this would be more beneficial for everyone as well. No amount of debate will change a dogmatic mindset, but if we can create a case study based on evidence, that will add to the knowledge base and also provide a factual basis for people to derive knowledge from, I think that can be EXTREMELY useful.
Dr. Connelly should not be opposed to this if he really believes strongly in his hypotheses and wants to truly test his theories. This is a perfect opportunity to do so. Also, we have a pool of willing participants ready and willing to do it all in the open. As I said, I am sure 240orBust would be willing to set up a site to where we could follow daily which would contain blogs, methodology, supporting studies etc...
Lets let the results and evidence speak for themselves and then we can interpret them with a healthy debate. THAT is the way Science works. I do not wish to market any products indirectly without being compensated and I certainly do not wish to market anything that has no Scientific basis or verifiable result.
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Adam, if get Connelly himself to post on here and invite you to the debate, will you accept then? We'll have Ron verify the identity.
How good is his Wikijitsu?
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How good is his Wikijitsu?
I think Dr. Connelly knows the value of Published studies. (at least I hope so) Do you think he should not have access to any?
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I`d like to discuss it with him as I think an experiment would certainly prove more useful for everyone than a video debate. Or a video debate after an experiment is completed. I feel confident that this would be more beneficial for everyone as well. No amount of debate will change a dogmatic mindset, but if we can create a case study based on evidence, that will add to the knowledge base and also provide a factual basis for people to derive knowledge from, I think that can be EXTREMELY useful.
Dr. Connelly should not be opposed to this if he really believes strongly in his hypotheses and wants to truly test his theories. This is a perfect opportunity to do so. Also, we have a pool of willing participants ready and willing to do it all in the open. As I said, I am sure 240orBust would be willing to set up a site to where we could follow daily which would contain blogs, methodology, supporting studies etc...
Lets let the results and evidence speak for themselves and then we can interpret them with a healthy debate. THAT is the way Science works. I do not wish to market any products indirectly without being compensated and I certainly do not wish to market anything that has no Scientific basis or verifiable result.
You do realize Dr. Connelly has nothing to prove. He has a couple decades of proof and mega success and worldwide exposure. You on the other hand do not have one thing. For him to even be in the same room with you is actually lowering his standards by alot. You sure have alot of balls for someone who has nothing to bring to the fight but other peoples info and studies. Honestly you are so laughable I don't even know how to say it. You are even worse than your neighbor Goodrum
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I think Dr. Connelly knows the value of Published studies. (at least I hope so) Do you think he should not have access to any?
Studies?! He don't need no steenkin' studies!
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My point is that nobody on this forum in a world authority in human nutrition. Many consider they are expert re nutrition for bodybuilding. However, I doubt much is really known about this area because it has not been studied independently because there is little academic interest in bodybuilders. The supplement companies are keenly interested and have sponsored some research but that is not what I call independent research.
Usually,we have to extrapolate from nutrition studies with athletes and/or the general population. Almost nothing is known about the nutritional needs of professional and amateur bodybuilders.
Your last statement is not true at all.
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/73/2/767
Journal of Applied Physiology, Vol 73, Issue 2 767-775, Copyright © 1992 by American Physiological Society
ARTICLES
Protein requirements and muscle mass/strength changes during intensive training in novice bodybuilders
P. W. Lemon, M. A. Tarnopolsky, J. D. MacDougall and S. A. Atkinson
School of Biomedical Sciences, Kent State University, Ohio 44242.
This randomized double-blind cross-over study assessed protein (PRO) requirements during the early stages of intensive bodybuilding training and determined whether supplemental PRO intake (PROIN) enhanced muscle mass/strength gains. Twelve men [22.4 +/- 2.4 (SD) yr] received an isoenergetic PRO (total PROIN 2.62 g.kg-1.day-1) or carbohydrate (CHO; total PROIN 1.35 g.kg-1.day-1) supplement for 1 mo each during intensive (1.5 h/day, 6 days/wk) weight training. On the basis of 3-day nitrogen balance (NBAL) measurements after 3.5 wk on each treatment (8.9 +/- 4.2 and -3.4 +/- 1.9 g N/day, respectively), the PROIN necessary for zero NBAL (requirement) was 1.4-1.5 g.kg-1.day-1. The recommended intake (requirement + 2 SD) was 1.6-1.7 g.kg-1.day-1. However, strength (voluntary and electrically evoked) and muscle mass [density, creatinine excretion, muscle area (computer axial tomography scan), and biceps N content] gains were not different between diet treatments. These data indicate that, during the early stages of intensive bodybuilding training, PRO needs are approximately 100% greater than current recommendations but that PROIN increases from 1.35 to 2.62 g.kg-1.day-1 do not enhance muscle mass/strength gains, at least during the 1st mo of training. Whether differential gains would occur with longer training remains to be determined.
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You do realize Dr. Connelly has nothing to prove. He has a couple decades of proof and mega success and worldwide exposure. You on the other hand do not have one thing. For him to even be in the same room with you is actually lowering his standards by alot. You sure have alot of balls for someone who has nothing to bring to the fight but other peoples info and studies. Honestly you are so laughable I don't even know how to say it. You are even worse than your neighbor Goodrum
Keith, I met someone not too long ago that knew you from your charity work with Muscular Dystrophy and the Special Olympics. He had nothing but kind words to say about you and considered you to have a "heart of gold". After hearing from him how much you at one time cared for the less fortunate, (he said you were very emotional when it came to seeing disadvantaged children) I refuse to say anything negative about you.
I personally feel that it will do you no good for me or anyone to continually dump insults on you or in a reciprocating fashion. Despite your current circumstances, I am sure the Keith with the "heart of gold" is in there somewhere and I do not want to do anything that would inhibit that side from showing.
I am truly sorry if I offended you in the past (I also wasn`t aware of other things that I was told) and I can promise you that you won`t hear a cross word from me.
I hope you get better overall and I do not want to see you go down a bitter route. According to your friend, that is not you and I don`t think it is either.
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i havent read this thread, but Vince is right on this one:
"Calories do count and while you can't just eat candy and sugar all day, you certainly can't fall for nutritional nonsense thats being circulated to sell more protein powder. "
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My point is that nobody on this forum in a world authority in human nutrition. Many consider they are expert re nutrition for bodybuilding. However, I doubt much is really known about this area because it has not been studied independently because there is little academic interest in bodybuilders. The supplement companies are keenly interested and have sponsored some research but that is not what I call independent research.
Usually,we have to extrapolate from nutrition studies with athletes and/or the general population. Almost nothing is known about the nutritional needs of professional and amateur bodybuilders.
This one is for you to peruse Vince given the age of the participants-What are your thoughts on this particular study?
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/274/4/E677
ABSTRACT
This study tested the hypothesis that increasing the protein content of isocaloric meals increases the rate of myofibrillar synthesis in muscle of healthy subjects over 60 yr old and enhances the stimulation of myofibrillar synthesis induced by resistance exercise. Myofibrillar synthesis of sedentary and exercised quadriceps muscle was determined by incorporation of L-[1-13C]leucine. During the tracer infusion, subjects consumed meals with a low (7% of energy, n = 6)-, normal (14%, n = 6)-, or high (28%, n = 6)-protein content. In sedentary muscle, the mean (± SE) myofibrillar synthesis was 1.56 ± 0.13%/day in the low-protein group, 1.73 ± 0.11 %/day in the normal-protein group, and 1.76 ± 0.10%/day in the high-protein group (P = 0.42). Myofibrillar synthesis was faster in exercised muscle (mean 27%, P < 106) in all groups (2.10 ± 0.14 %/day in low protein; 2.18 ± 0.10 %/day in normal protein; 2.11 ± 0.09 %/day in high protein; P = 0.84). The stimulation of myofibrillar synthesis by exercise was not significantly different among low-protein [0.54 ± 0.12 %/day (37 ± 9%)], normal-protein [0.46 ± 0.08 %/day (28 ± 5%)], and high-protein groups [0.34 ± 0.04 %/day (20 ± 3%); P = 0.31]. We conclude that high-protein meals do not enhance the stimulation of myofibrillar protein synthesis induced by resistance exercise.
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Adam quit posting shit you don't understand, seriously.
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Adam, are you interested in funding a study? If so let me know. If not, let's have the debate. I want to you describe your "Adonis Principles" and then hear what Scott has to say about them.
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i havent read this thread, but Vince is right on this one:
"Calories do count and while you can't just eat candy and sugar all day, you certainly can't fall for nutritional nonsense thats being circulated to sell more protein powder. "
I dont think Adonis said to eat candy and sugar all day, he said as long as you get the USRDA of nutrients then you could eat whatever you want albeit sugar and candy,and lose weight as long as you were burning more caloiries.
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Mindspin can you answer this?
Coach, there are several great studies on this. Let me find the links and I'll post it.
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Ok, thanks.
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Adam, are you interested in funding a study? If so let me know. If not, let's have the debate. I want to you describe your "Adonis Principles" and then hear what Scott has to say about them.
I am HIGHLY interested in funding a study.
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I am HIGHLY interested in funding a study.
Good idea. Since you are so rich you should have done this before. Can you tell us now when you will start the study. Do you know how much it will take and are you going to make the deposit into the account tomorrow. Can you tell us how much you will be using to fund the study. Thanks and good job stepping forward to fund this study. Finally you are stepping up to the plate. I am proud of you.
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I dont think Adonis said to eat candy and sugar all day, he said as long as you get the USRDA of nutrients then you could eat whatever you want albeit sugar and candy,and lose weight as long as you were burning more caloiries.
Exactly. Food Science being what it is, wonderful thing it is, we are able to meet and exceed these needs just by the myriad of fortified products that we consume on a daily basis. Couple that with "whole" sources such as Ground Beef or what have you and you are eating above and beyond the amount just by default, without even considering what components of Macro or Micro Nutrients that comprised your meals for the day.
The problem with Obesity which includes Perma-Bulkers (Obese people who work out but are convinced of overeating) is certainly not a lack of nutrients or Vitamins, they get too many of those obviously.
Obesity is a simple problem to solve and it does not involve penalizing the population writ large with any added consumption taxes or limitation of food choice or the artificial price increase- paying more for less food- due to a vocal uninformed/misinformed group of so called "health-nuts and "health experts" pushing for such nonsense. Its happening and its unnecessary. We see the impact of this vocal crowd in our supermarkets already in the form of the lessening of calories yet with the increase of price in food products. This is unacceptable. Demanding less food for a higher price does not make any sense to me whatsoever and as long as the gross confusion exists this trend will continue and will only get worse.
This is not the fault of those who know better and know how to watch their overall caloric intake.
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it all comes down to this bros:
pump weights hard
eat food
get sleep
genetics determine the rest
PERIOD
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it all comes down to this bros:
pump weights hard
eat food
get sleep
genetics determine the rest
PERIOD
You forgot sucking cock and taking Anabolic Halo.
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Adonis,
why dont you post a current pic? have you become so concerned with your getbig status that you cannot post a simple picture? it would be interesting to see what condition you currently are in.
I will take some this week.
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Am I the ONLY ONE here who is Frightened by this sort of thing:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/w_DietAndFitness/junk-food-tax-improve-health/story?id=10056236
By KRISTINA FIORE
MedPage Today
March 10, 2010
Junk Food Tax Could Improve Health
The Pricier Junk Food Is, the Less of It People Eat, Research Suggests
Taxing junk food may help reduce obesity and improve health, researchers have found.
California lawmakers propose a tax on sugary drinks to fight obesity.
Patients got significantly less of their calories from soda or pizza when there was a 10 percent increase in the price of either, Penny Gordon-Larsen of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and colleagues reported in the March 8 issue of Archives of Internal Medicine.
"Policies aimed at altering the price of soda or ... pizza may be effective mechanisms to steer U.S. adults toward a more healthful diet and help reduce long-term weight gain or insulin levels over time," the researchers wrote.
Talk of a soda tax has sparked debate across the country, particularly in New York and Philadelphia, where such legislation is currently under consideration. However, not much research has been done to study how price changes would affect health outcomes.
So the researchers looked at data from 5,115 patients enrolled in the longitudinal Coronary Artery Risk Development in Young Adults (CARDIA) Study from 1985 to 2006.
During that time, the inflation-adjusted price of soda and pizza actually decreased, with the largest drop observed for soda, falling from $2.71 to $1.42 for a 2-liter bottle -- a 48 percent decline.
In their analyses, the researchers found that changes in the price of soda and pizza were associated with changes in the probability of consuming those foods, as well as in the amounts consumed.
A 10 percent increase in the price of soda was associated with a 7.12 percent decrease in calories consumed from it, while the same increase in the price of pizza led to an 11.5 percent drop.
Price was also significantly associated with total caloric intake and body weight. A $1.00 increase in soda prices, for example, was tied to a mean of 124 fewer total daily calories, which amounted to an average weight loss of 2.34 pounds.
The researchers noted that similar trends were seen for pizza, adding that a $1.00 increase in the price of both soda and pizza together was associated with even greater changes in total energy intake, body weight, and insulin resistance.
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My state just busted out a similar tax.
OLYMPIA, WA – Washington Governor Chris Gregoire approved a tax package last week that targets, among other things, soda, bottled water, major-brand beer, candy and cigarettes, the Los Angeles Times reports.
Gregoire said that the “sensible and modest” package would help solve the state’s budget deficit — currently estimated at $2.8 billion — and generate roughly $780 million annually.
Taxes on soda, beer and bottled water are temporary and will last through June 2013. The tobacco taxes take effect May 1, while the others kick in on staggered dates later this year.
"I believe in the people of the state of Washington. I'm asking them to stand up and do what's right on a temporary basis to see us through this worst time," Gregoire said.
Republican lawmakers blasted the Democratic governor’s move, arguing that the Democrats did not trim enough from state spending.
"Legislators must learn from history — you cannot tax and spend your way out of a recession, but you can dig the hole deeper with bad policies," said Sen. Janea Holmquist.
Specifics of the tax increases include:
Tobacco: $1 per pack increase.
Soda bottlers: 2 cents increase for every 12-ounce container (exempts bottlers under $10 million in volume).
Beer: 50 cents increase per gallon, or 28-cents per six-pack (exempts microwbrews).
Candy and gum: now subject to the state’s 6.5 percent sales tax.
Bottled water: now subject to the state’s 6.5 percent sales tax.
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As long as the drum of misinformation keeps beating, we will see outrageous proposals such as the above become the norm.
The food companies will not mind as they will simply do what they are already beginning to do now, offer less calories for more money due to public "outrage" and manufactured demand that they do so. Couple that with governmental guidelines looking to pay off the deficit or whatever bailout or missile they need to purchase next and you are looking at disaster.
The sad thing is, people will applaud these type of measures, especially the so called- "health and fitness" industry and the woefully misinformed "organic food" crowd.
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I just simply cannot understand why someone would not take a free trip to California, under any circumstances
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I never counted calories in 30 + years when I came down for shows.
No, but I bet you swapped out different foods, like instead of potatos every other meal you were eating green veggies, and substituting things, thus lowering calories by default.
You did not have to count them, because you created your deficit, then probably did cardio.
If you used steroids, that changes the game completely as well. I used the same diet on a cycle that I used off of it, the exact same thing, and when I went off I got fat as hell.
A friend of mine did the same thing, except he tried to keep his calories clean. He reached a training plateau on gear (never deloaded or periodized anything), and he tried to keep it by not lowering calories. He of course lost muscle and got fat.
So, I have a hard time believing you just did your off season diet exactly, did some cardio, and then came in ripped.
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As long as the drum of misinformation keeps beating, we will see outrageous proposals such as the above become the norm.
The food companies will not mind as they will simply do what they are already beginning to do now, offer less calories for more money due to public "outrage" and manufactured demand that they do so. Couple that with governmental guidelines looking to pay off the deficit or whatever bailout or missile they need to purchase next and you are looking at disaster.
The sad thing is, people will applaud these type of measures, especially the so called- "health and fitness" industry and the woefully misinformed "organic food" crowd.
Exactly, it is all a freaking conspiracy really. It is allowed to progress because of the stupidity of the population.
Let's look into bodybuilding closely, and see where this all started.
In the old days, guys ate 3 squares of whatever they wanted, trained their whole body 3x a week, and then they grew.
In the mid 60's, when steroids came on the scene (I know people accuse Reeves of using in the 50's, and other guys as well in that time period. Not impossible, but I doubt it.).
Then guys were rapidly getting bigger than ever, and they changed training as well, which is where the split routine as well as ultra high volume for seemingly no reason came to be.
Weider saw this, realized people needed more protein since all of the stars ate a lot more. How much to recommend? Well, I don't know what it was then. I am sure they probably put no limit on it, eat until you grow. Hoffman had his powder before, and the idea was in full swing.
So, we get all sorts of powders and this high protein myth.
It is perpetuated by anecdotal reports of someone raising their protein when they find out about it, which makes them finally reach the optimum amount, even though the arbitrary gram per pound figure was overboard.
Now here we are, with this myth being spread all over the place. Interestingly enough, if the person sells protein powder, the trace amounts of protein are not bio-available enough to suffice. So now guys are attached to the ball and chain of drinking 4-6 scoops a day in addition to eating other crap they don't want.
It is not sustainable and the direct reason a lot of guys train for years and years while never seeing their abs.
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I just simply cannot understand why someone would not take a free trip to California, under any circumstances
It's a hit job. They don't want a debate, they want to make Adonis look stupid in front of the legions of misinformed people on the internet. If this doctor were so rich and world renowned, he would not waste his time with a guy on the internet. He wants to use Adonis in order to sell books or whatever.
Plus, you never know how convoluted the logic will be, and how the debate will be filmed. Just look at Arthur Jones discussing failure back in the day, or Mentzer, or Darden. They still think it causes muscle growth, and going to failure triggers it. People still persist to this day who believe it depending on inalienable proof it is not true. Mentzer admitted it was not the cause, but an insurance policy, and assured people it happened somewhere in between. Yeah right.
Anyway, without a case study with 2 non-drug using individuals, you will not get anything from the debate anyway. Adonis will say what he always says, the other guy will say what is in his book, and it would be a worthless stalemate leaving us to decide the winner. You all, out of irrational hatred will claim Adonis lost, and then cut up the interview and show certain clips, and then drive more and more people into believing this bullshit.
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(http://www.amazingmaxick.com/EugeneSandow.jpg)
There was an interesting article in the June 6, 1897 issue of the New York times that detailed Eugene Sandow`s diet verified by the Office of Experimentation in The Department of Agriculture.
His diet was extremely Carb Heavy at 502 grams. Overall calories per day for him were 4462 including Beer and Cigarettes and Ice Cream and Cake and Butter and Wine and Bread Pudding :)
The Department of Agriculture also calculated the diet for regular laborers, children and students etc...
We find that their average caloric intake in 1897 was certainly higher than todays purported average intake which is quite interesting. Clearly their entire lifestyle was different and much less sedentary. Some may find this article as interesting as I did.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9A03E7DE123CE433A25755C0A9609C94669ED7CF
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Restaurants in 1915 also served meals that contained HIGHER calories than today`s Fast Food meals.
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Restaurants in 1915 also served meals that contained HIGHER calories than today`s Fast Food meals.
Randy Roach: Muscle Smoke & Mirrors
THE END
READ IT!! 8)
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Here is the challenge, Adonis. You supervise a group of natural bodybuilders who have access ONLY to fast food such as McDonalds, KFC, Burger King, Pizza Hut, etc. Connelly can give his subjects any supplements and foods he likes. Neither group can use anabolic drugs, etc. Have everyone do the same training protocols. To make this perfect use identical twins only and have one in each group. After 6 months test subjects for health, lean mass and appearance. If you feel confident that you know enough then you would embrace this challenge.
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Here is the challenge, Adonis. You supervise a group of natural bodybuilders who have access ONLY to fast food such as McDonalds, KFC, Burger King, Pizza Hut, etc. Connelly can give his subjects any supplements and foods he likes. Neither group can use anabolic drugs, etc. Have everyone do the same training protocols. To make this perfect use identical twins only and have one in each group. After 6 months test subjects for health, lean mass and appearance. If you feel confident that you know enough then you would embrace this challenge.
I embrace it 10000000000000 percent. Lets get it started.
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Here is the challenge, Adonis. You supervise a group of natural bodybuilders who have access ONLY to fast food such as McDonalds, KFC, Burger King, Pizza Hut, etc. Connelly can give his subjects any supplements and foods he likes. Neither group can use anabolic drugs, etc. Have everyone do the same training protocols. To make this perfect use identical twins only and have one in each group. After 6 months test subjects for health, lean mass and appearance. If you feel confident that you know enough then you would embrace this challenge.
You would not even have to do that. Just no drugs and percentage gains are fine relative to training history and overall bodyfat history. Have 1 representative of each body type in each group, and let the results speak for themselves.
Your scenario is a 'lol, look how hard this would be' type thing.
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What a pity that in our societies we have TV shows called the Biggest Loser where fatties compete to see who loses the most. What a pity we haven't got a show where people are trying to build lean mass. That would be infinitely more interesting than listening to fat people complain about each other. The McDonalds experiment would be to have a facility attached to a McDonalds restaurant and the subjects eat only what is served at McDonalds. They have no outside contact and are tested for drugs, etc. The winner would be the person who gains the most lean mass and looks the best while remaining healthy.
If subjects were successful it would put an end to this nonsense of junk food. There is no such thing. Only junk diets. An example would be to eat only french fries. Hamburgers are nutritionally almost a complete food.
It would be interesting to see what Connelly could do with his knowledge. Even if he won the challenge I am confident that the 'junk food' group wouldn't be far behind.
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What a pity that in our societies we have TV shows called the Biggest Loser where fatties compete to see who loses the most. What a pity we haven't got a show where people are trying to build lean mass. That would be infinitely more interesting than listening to fat people complain about each other. The McDonalds experiment would be to have a facility attached to a McDonalds restaurant and the subjects eat only what is served at McDonalds. They have no outside contact and are tested for drugs, etc. The winner would be the person who gains the most lean mass and looks the best while remaining healthy.
If subjects were successful it would put an end to this nonsense of junk food. There is no such thing. Only junk diets. An example would be to eat only french fries. Hamburgers are nutritionally almost a complete food.
It would be interesting to see what Connelly could do with his knowledge. Even if he won the challenge I am confident that the 'junk food' group wouldn't be far behind.
Its already been done with solely Mcdonalds.
http://www.truthinfitness.org/projects/mcDonalds/journal.html
(http://www.truthinfitness.org/images/chazz_43.jpg)
The following journal is a daily account of my 30 day journey through the golden arches of fast food. I will be eating McDonald’s food, and only McDonald’s food, for the next 30 day’s. My objective is to prove that through proper caloric intake and exercise (aerobic & anaerobic) it’s possible to eat a variety of foods, including fast food, without gaining fat.
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I just simply cannot understand why someone would not take a free trip to California, under any circumstances
this
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(http://www.truthinfitness.org/images/2004_04_30b.jpg)
(http://www.truthinfitness.org/images/2004_04_30c.jpg)
http://www.truthinfitness.org/projects/mcDonalds/conclusion.html
Okay, here are the results:
Weight – I started at 222lbs and in thirty days I dropped 8lbs of “body fat”, ending the thirty days at 214lbs.
Blood Pressure - I started at 111/71, a bit low, and ended the thirty days at 121/81 which is optimal.
Cholesterol – this is where you need to understand about cholesterol!
My HDL (the good cholesterol) improved 80%.
My LDL (the bad cholesterol) went down 2 points. That’s an improvement!
My overall cholesterol went up 6% because of my HDL improvement, however this is an improvement overall.
My Triglycerides improved 42%
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http://www.truthinfitness.org/projects/mcDonalds/conclusion.html
Greetings to all,
Well, it’s been a week since “The McDonald’s Diet” officially ended and the results are in. However, before I get into that, I’d like to thank all the individuals that donated their time and effort to help out on the project – Mike, Carlos, and Michele for their great work on the web site and postings, Rosalie for keeping my schedule together and keeping me on track, Scott for making sure the integrity of the project was sound, Jessie & James for their creative filming and the incredible documentary that is coming soon, and all the rest that played a part in the project – Thank You…
The project was fun and I had a great time doing it – sounds funny given the results that Morgan Spurlock claims to have had from only McDonald’s food. We both (Spurlock & I) knew exactly what we were doing. The difference was that Spurlock was/is playing on the misinformation that the public has in order to make a profit; I was/am interested in educating in order to stop the acceleration of obesity in America. However, am I looking to get something for my efforts? Yes – psychic benefit, a term in economics, which is more valuable to me than monetary benefit.
Spurlock will move on to host a TV show, Truth In Fitness will be starting a new project this month. We’ll be coaching a 55 year-old, obese woman, whom is diabetic, to a new life, and you will be able to track her every step on the web site. We’ll keep a journal, just as before, with pictures and comments from her. The introduction to this new project will have the full story.
Okay, here are the results:
Weight – I started at 222lbs and in thirty days I dropped 8lbs of “body fat”, ending the thirty days at 214lbs.
Blood Pressure - I started at 111/71, a bit low, and ended the thirty days at 121/81 which is optimal.
Cholesterol – this is where you need to understand about cholesterol!
My HDL (the good cholesterol) improved 80%.
My LDL (the bad cholesterol) went down 2 points. That’s an improvement!
My overall cholesterol went up 6% because of my HDL improvement, however this is an improvement overall.
My Triglycerides improved 42%
Many people have asked me if it matters where their calories come from. At the most basic, eating exactly the number of calories that you burn and if you are only talking about weight, not fat loss, the answer is no -- a calorie is a calorie. A protein calorie is no different from a fat calorie -- they are simply units of energy. As long as you burn what you eat, you will maintain your weight; and as long as you burn more than you eat, you will lose weight. But if we're talking nutrition, it definitely matters where those calories originate. We will be posting information regarding nutrition soon.
Again, thank you for your support and encouragement.
Sincerely,
Chazz
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I just simply cannot understand why someone would not take a free trip to California, under any circumstances
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(http://www.truthinfitness.org/images/splash-poster.jpg)
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I just simply cannot understand why someone would not take a free trip to California, under any circumstances
Employed and in meaningful relationships? ;D Do you know about those things?
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(http://www.truthinfitness.org/images/2004_04_06_eat.jpg)
Sample of a day: All meals were logged and can be found on his page.
http://www.truthinfitness.org/projects/mcDonalds/journal_06-10.html
Meal #21 – 0730 hrs: I started my morning off with a Bacon, Egg & Cheese Biscuit [460 cal., 21 g. protein, 32 g. carbs, 28 g. total fat], Sausage Biscuit with Egg [490 cal., 16 g. protein, 31 g. carbs, 33 g. total fat], Scrambled Eggs [160 cal., 13 g. protein, 1 g. carbs, 11 g. total fat] and a small black coffee.
Meal #22 – 1100 hrs: And for my next meal I ingested a Crispy Chicken Sandwich [510 cal., 22 g. protein, 47 g. carbs, 26 g. total fat], Cheeseburger [330 cal., 15 g. protein, 36 g. carbs, 14 g. total fat] and a medium Diet Coke.
Meal #23 – 1435 hrs: Next was a Filet-O-Fish [410 cal., 15 g. protein, 41 g. carbs, 20 g. total fat], Hamburger [280 cal., 12 g. protein, 36 g. carbs, 10 g. total fat], Crispy Chicken Bacon Ranch Salad [350 cal., 26 g. protein, 20 g. carbs, 19 g. total fat], small French Fries [210 cal., 3 g. protein, 26 g. carbs, 10 g. total fat] and a small Diet Coke.
I had another radio interview at 4:15. This time with a station in Greenbay, Wisconsin called KICKS 104.9 (WPCK). I met up with my training partner at 5:30 where I spent the next 50 minutes on my leg workout. On my way home I stopped and got a much needed haircut.
Meal #24 – 2000 hrs: My last meal of the day consisted of a Big Mac [600 cal., 25 g. protein, 50 g. carbs, 33 g. total fat], Bacon Ranch Salad (without chicken) [130 cal., 10 g. protein, 7 g. carbs, 8 g. total fat], Oatmeal Raisin Cookie [150 cal., 2 g. protein, 23 g. carbs, 6 g. total fat], and a Diet Coke.
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Employed and in meaningful relationships? ;D Do you know about those things?
what u talkin bout willis
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Hope all of this Helps!
:)
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Keith, I met someone not too long ago that knew you from your charity work with Muscular Dystrophy and the Special Olympics. He had nothing but kind words to say about you and considered you to have a "heart of gold". After hearing from him how much you at one time cared for the less fortunate, (he said you were very emotional when it came to seeing disadvantaged children) I refuse to say anything negative about you.
I personally feel that it will do you no good for me or anyone to continually dump insults on you or in a reciprocating fashion. Despite your current circumstances, I am sure the Keith with the "heart of gold" is in there somewhere and I do not want to do anything that would inhibit that side from showing.
I am truly sorry if I offended you in the past (I also wasn`t aware of other things that I was told) and I can promise you that you won`t hear a cross word from me.
I hope you get better overall and I do not want to see you go down a bitter route. According to your friend, that is not you and I don`t think it is either.
This is a very impressive post and shows good character. I may disagree vehemently with TA in regard to politics and very superficially in regard to dieting but by this one post my opinion of TA as a person has risen tremendously. We often get a skewed perspective on someone when we just know him/her from a message a board. Especially a board such as this which sometimes brings out the worse in a person. Give credit where credit is due regardless of your personal feelings.
You are an enigmatic person, my friend, but I just saw a glimpse of a good heart. That matters. That matters a lot.
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Am I the ONLY ONE here who is Frightened by this sort of thing:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/w_DietAndFitness/junk-food-tax-improve-health/story?id=10056236
By KRISTINA FIORE
MedPage Today
March 10, 2010
Junk Food Tax Could Improve Health
The Pricier Junk Food Is, the Less of It People Eat, Research Suggests
Taxing junk food may help reduce obesity and improve health, researchers have found.
California lawmakers propose a tax on sugary drinks to fight obesity.
Patients got significantly less of their calories from soda or pizza when there was a 10 percent increase in the price of either, Penny Gordon-Larsen of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and colleagues reported in the March 8 issue of Archives of Internal Medicine.
"Policies aimed at altering the price of soda or ... pizza may be effective mechanisms to steer U.S. adults toward a more healthful diet and help reduce long-term weight gain or insulin levels over time," the researchers wrote.
Talk of a soda tax has sparked debate across the country, particularly in New York and Philadelphia, where such legislation is currently under consideration. However, not much research has been done to study how price changes would affect health outcomes.
So the researchers looked at data from 5,115 patients enrolled in the longitudinal Coronary Artery Risk Development in Young Adults (CARDIA) Study from 1985 to 2006.
During that time, the inflation-adjusted price of soda and pizza actually decreased, with the largest drop observed for soda, falling from $2.71 to $1.42 for a 2-liter bottle -- a 48 percent decline.
In their analyses, the researchers found that changes in the price of soda and pizza were associated with changes in the probability of consuming those foods, as well as in the amounts consumed.
A 10 percent increase in the price of soda was associated with a 7.12 percent decrease in calories consumed from it, while the same increase in the price of pizza led to an 11.5 percent drop.
Price was also significantly associated with total caloric intake and body weight. A $1.00 increase in soda prices, for example, was tied to a mean of 124 fewer total daily calories, which amounted to an average weight loss of 2.34 pounds.
The researchers noted that similar trends were seen for pizza, adding that a $1.00 increase in the price of both soda and pizza together was associated with even greater changes in total energy intake, body weight, and insulin resistance.
No your not. But let me asks you an honest question: What side of the political spectrum does this come from? The Left or the Right? What side wants bigger government and more control over you personal life?
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who said there was something wrong with mc donalds? its basically potatoes, meat, bread, oils, salt, sugar etc. etc.
;D
expensive nonetheless
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No your not. But let me asks you an honest question: What side of the political spectrum does this come from? The Left or the Right? What side wants bigger government and more control over you personal life?
I will answer this one for you honestly: both of them do. Republicans want to help the 1% above all. The democrats realize that the majority are retarded and if something is not done, then people will continue to do the things that lead to problems. I don't believe they care on way or the other, but they are into protecting people from themselves. This unfortunately creates man made evolution and litters the population with 'genetic junk'.
Republicans use the middle class against the liberals and point out the lower class as being unwilling to do what the middle class does, no exceptions.
However Obama made it to where the middle class payed less taxes since like the 1960's, and the upper class blunted the difference.
Both have their own agenda, both are untrustworthy, and both do things we want with a bigger political agenda in mind. Health care reform is great by itself, and it will work out. However it will be used to drum up support for everything else.
It is like the Republicans who voted that the government could not afford the health care bill even though it decreased the deficit, yet had a hard on to go into Iraq, since that benefits the oil companies without affecting our 'war on terror'.
I also believe 9/11 was an inside job. I do not trust the government in any shape or form, however I feel that, under a democrat, more people will be helped in our life times.
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who said there was something wrong with mc donalds? its basically potatoes, meat, bread, oils, salt, sugar etc. etc.
;D
expensive nonetheless
I know. It is amazing that people blame Mcdonald's for obesity. I do believe the new mandate to put calorie info on everything (Mcdonalds already does) will help people realize just how much they are eating.
The problem is with high food consumption out of a need for fulfillment or some sort of pleasure all day. I mean, I advocate going to Mcdonalds and eating anything you want, but eating 4500 calories and beyond like a lot of people do is the cause, not the ingredients or preparation.
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This is a very impressive post and shows good character. I may disagree vehemently with TA in regard to politics and very superficially in regard to dieting but by this one post my opinion of TA as a person has risen tremendously. We often get a skewed perspective on someone when we just know him/her from a message a board. Especially a board such as this which sometimes brings out the worse in a person. Give credit where credit is due regardless of your personal feelings.
You are an enigmatic person, my friend, but I just saw a glimpse of a good heart. That matters. That matters a lot.
It is rather easy to forget at times, due to the sometimes anesthetized environment of the internet, that there is actually a living, breathing person with feelings and emotions behind every keyboard.
We all have contributed to disparaging one another on Getbig (part of the appeal of the site) but there are also certain times to exhibit restraint. The trick is knowing how to do both and when.
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It is rather easy to forget at times, due to the sometimes anesthetized environment of the internet, that there is actually a living, breathing person with feelings and emotions behind every keyboard.
We all have contributed to disparaging one another on Getbig (part of the appeal of the site) but there are also certain times to exhibit restraint. The trick is knowing how to do both and when.
QFT. And, as always, give my regards to the lovely Jezebelle.
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No your not. But let me asks you an honest question: What side of the political spectrum does this come from? The Left or the Right? What side wants bigger government and more control over you personal life?
Both sides which is why I consider myself a true Socialist (power and resources solely in the hands of THE PEOPLE, nowhere else) or a Libertarian Socialist or a Democratic Socialist.
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::)
so you are not flying to Cali and keep on posting BS
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::)
so you are not flying to Cali and keep on posting BS
Look,
This whole thing is a work in progress and does not have to be decided and formulated overnight. At least that is the way I see it. I like the idea of putting together a case study of some sort and I am willing to bet Scott Connelly may also be interested in doing so.
I really don`t care about proving myself to anyone, I`d rather focus on proving the different hypotheses evidence and Science.
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I do not think there's a bullshitter bigger than you
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I just dont see it TA..If I eat a hamburger and fries (not mickey d's though) for dinner and got on the scale the next day, easy 2lb increase
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I have eaten two big mc's today 8), fucking rules 8)!!! get all pumped, jug it down with sprite... mmhh mmh... ofcourse u have to drink some water so u won't get all dry and shit, then hit the gym and you have the best pumps!!
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If your total calorie count does not increase from your usual diet then you shouldn't gain any weight. I've lost 11lbs now and I regularly eat 2bigmacs and a sprite zero at work (1000 calories), just watch what I eat the rest of the day.
um I will usually eat a cheat meal at lunch time but still. I eat like 1000-1300 calories a day to keep the weight off.
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Holy shit thats so little :o, don't you do a lot of cardio as well? Different for women?
yes I do cardio. Im only 127 lbs. It seems like I eat constantly, which is what I do..Like every 3 hours, I just eat clean is all
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I'm going to state this once, and then leave it for the Adam/Connelly debate.
Connelly believes that you can take a pair of monozygotic twins and put them both on an identical training regimen and identical caloric consumption. However, if one is getting his calories primarily from protein, and the other is getting his calories primarily from carbs, they will end up with differing body composition. In spite of the fact that both twins are burning & consuming the same amount of calories, the twin that is consuming primarily protein will end up with more muscle and lower body fat.
That is the oversimplified position. Like I said before, I'm not going to spend hours on here reading through Adonis cut & paste nonsense. The best way to settle this is to get the two together and see it debated.
He believes... LOL... the only place where people believe is in church.
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If your total calorie count does not increase from your usual diet then you shouldn't gain any weight. I've lost 11lbs now and I regularly eat 2bigmacs and a sprite zero at work (1000 calories), just watch what I eat the rest of the day.
There you a go proof in the lab
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My body does not work like that xerxes but Im 5ft3. If I have a cheat day..usually next day 3 lb gain on the scale but its gone the following day. None the less I have to be careful what I eat..
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You do realize Dr. Connelly has nothing to prove. He has a couple decades of proof and mega success and worldwide exposure. You on the other hand do not have one thing. For him to even be in the same room with you is actually lowering his standards by alot. You sure have alot of balls for someone who has nothing to bring to the fight but other peoples info and studies. Honestly you are so laughable I don't even know how to say it. You are even worse than your neighbor Goodrum
Bullshit keith, the man has accomplished plenty just look at his post count nearly 20,000 posts on Getbig.com
1 question How many posts does dr. connelly have here?
::)
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Can someone tell me what happened between page 4 and this post? I go to bed for 8 hours, and you lunatics post 6 pages of shit I can't possibly keep up with... ::)
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Connelly Diet - 3,000 to 4,000 calories
1 Bucket of KFC - 1725 calories
So if my caloric intake is equal to 2 buckets of KFC Fried Chicken but my macro-nutrients are balanced...I'm still going to lose weight...... ::)
I'm sorry but I used to follow the 300-400 grams of protein a day and etc. But now I know better. In order for the body to burn fat, it has to be in a caloric deficiency and need the extra calories for fuel.
Adonis is right. Calories do count and while you can't just eat candy and sugar all day, you certainly can't fall for nutritional nonsense thats being circulated to sell more protein powder.
The irony is strong in this post.....
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I know. It is amazing that people blame Mcdonald's for obesity. I do believe the new mandate to put calorie info on everything (Mcdonalds already does) will help people realize just how much they are eating.
The problem is with high food consumption out of a need for fulfillment or some sort of pleasure all day. I mean, I advocate going to Mcdonalds and eating anything you want, but eating 4500 calories and beyond like a lot of people do is the cause, not the ingredients or preparation.
Totally not Adonis.
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Look,
This whole thing is a work in progress and does not have to be decided and formulated overnight. At least that is the way I see it. I like the idea of putting together a case study of some sort and I am willing to bet Scott Connelly may also be interested in doing so.
I really don`t care about proving myself to anyone, I`d rather focus on proving the different hypotheses evidence and Science.
Ha ha! Really? Is that why you've spent countless hours cutting and pasting mountains of wikipedia nonsense to try and support the "Adonis Principles"? Why are you spending so much time debating it on-line, when in one evening you could have a great discussion with an expert in the field?
As for a case study, come out and meet Scott. I think you'll be surprised by what you find.
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Ha ha! Really? Is that why you've spent countless hours cutting and pasting mountains of wikipedia nonsense to try and support the "Adonis Principles"? Why are you spending so much time debating it on-line, when in one evening you could have a great discussion with an expert in the field?
As for a case study, come out and meet Scott. I think you'll be surprised by what you find.
Why would nt anybody want to take a free trip to california?
If the offers still standing I ll happily go and bullshit to connolly for an hour or two
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How would dr.Connelly tell me to lose bodyfat?
dunno, but if you want to lose bodyfat tell your boyfriend not to wear a rubber next time he sticks his lightsaber up your ass. guarantee you'll be rocking to streets of philadelphia in a few months.
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Ha ha! Really? Is that why you've spent countless hours cutting and pasting mountains of wikipedia nonsense to try and support the "Adonis Principles"? Why are you spending so much time debating it on-line, when in one evening you could have a great discussion with an expert in the field?
As for a case study, come out and meet Scott. I think you'll be surprised by what you find.
This is all driven by money losing fat is simple.
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seriously, why would TA do this when it's obvious that they're setting him up to be a patsy and in a environment where the deck is deliberately stacked against him and they're filming and editing everything to make him look as bad as possible. dude isn't exactly poor, not sure he needs a vacation on those terms.
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seriously, why would TA do this when it's obvious that they're setting him up to be a patsy and in a environment where the deck is deliberately stacked against him and they're filming and editing everything to make him look as bad as possible. dude isn't exactly poor, not sure he needs a vacation on those terms.
Nice gimmick LOL. How is the "deck stacked against him"? It's a sit down conversation in Scotts living room, which I might add, has a beautiful view of the Pacific Ocean and Balboa island. As for the video, I guarantee there will be NO EDITING. I'll post the raw footage from beginning to end.
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How can Adonis debate any point without the ability to use google and cut and paste?
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Nice gimmick LOL. How is the "deck stacked against him"? It's a sit down conversation in Scotts living room, which I might add, has a beautiful view of the Pacific Ocean and Balboa island. As for the video, I guarantee there will be NO EDITING. I'll post the raw footage from beginning to end.
For once I agree with SusanFitness. Its very suspicious that Dr Connelly is wanting invite True Adonis of all people out to discuss nutrition principles. Why not invite someone like Brian Wansink for example instead???
Sounds to me like this is a setup and honestly I don't even think that Scott even knows about this. Care to enlighten us Mindspin as to the reason Dr Connelly would want to debate Adonis.
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For once I agree with SusanFitness. Its very suspicious that Dr Connelly is wanting invite True Adonis of all people out to discuss nutrition principles. Why not invite someone like Brian Wansink for example instead???
Sounds to me like this is a setup and honestly I don't even think that Scott even knows about this. Care to enlighten us Mindspin as to the reason Dr Connelly would want to debate Adonis.
Only one way to find out. If Adam agrees, and it turns out that I made all of this up, I'll be the one exposed. However, if it is in fact true, Adam will have a chance to state his case, not on a message board, but on a much bigger stage. I think this is a huge opportunity for him. He could parlay it into all sorts of great stuff.
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Only one way to find out. If Adam agrees, and it turns out that I made all of this up, I'll be the one exposed. However, if it is in fact true, Adam will have a chance to state his case, not on a message board, but on a much bigger stage. I think this is a huge opportunity for him. He could parlay it into all sorts of great stuff.
i agree but u have a better chance getting charles manson freed...
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For once I agree with SusanFitness. Its very suspicious that Dr Connelly is wanting invite True Adonis of all people out to discuss nutrition principles. Why not invite someone like Brian Wansink for example instead???
Sounds to me like this is a setup and honestly I don't even think that Scott even knows about this. Care to enlighten us Mindspin as to the reason Dr Connelly would want to debate Adonis.
One thing is because Apenis has been calling Connelly out. Is the other guy mention. Apenis is in the same group of non acheivers like you who have to try and do what they can to show some kind of intelligence or success. There is not one thing original about Apenis. He cuts and pastes at least 98% of what he posts. Does anyone think Apenis could survive a debate with anyone with the intelligence of Connelly without Google and Wikipedia. Again Goodrum you stick your brown nose in places it doesn't belong. Do I really have to tell you the only place that nose is welcome. And I hear him screaming now.
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It's a sit down conversation in Scotts living room, which I might add, has a beautiful view of the Pacific Ocean and Balboa island.
Maybe throw in a fabulous salon makeover?
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For once I agree with SusanFitness. Its very suspicious that Dr Connelly is wanting invite True Adonis of all people out to discuss nutrition principles. Why not invite someone like Brian Wansink for example instead???
Sounds to me like this is a setup and honestly I don't even think that Scott even knows about this. Care to enlighten us Mindspin as to the reason Dr Connelly would want to debate Adonis.
You do know you supporting anything immediately discredits it right?
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I'm going to state this once, and then leave it for the Adam/Connelly debate.
Connelly believes that you can take a pair of monozygotic twins and put them both on an identical training regimen and identical caloric consumption. However, if one is getting his calories primarily from protein, and the other is getting his calories primarily from carbs, they will end up with differing body composition. In spite of the fact that both twins are burning & consuming the same amount of calories, the twin that is consuming primarily protein will end up with more muscle and lower body fat.
That is the oversimplified position. Like I said before, I'm not going to spend hours on here reading through Adonis cut & paste nonsense. The best way to settle this is to get the two together and see it debated.
1000% agre with this!!
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I've said it in another Connelly post, then why does he prescribe a (severely mind you) caloric deficit in his book body rx? Even Adonis would'nt prescribe such low kcals for a 200 lbs man as Connelly does. That is not even taking into account the indeed huge TEF on such a diet (which makes the caloric deficit even greater obviously)
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I have eaten two big mc's today 8), fucking rules 8)!!! get all pumped, jug it down with sprite... mmhh mmh... ofcourse u have to drink some water so u won't get all dry and shit, then hit the gym and you have the best pumps!!
::) any bacon ?
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I've said it in another Connelly post, then why does he prescribe a (severely mind you) caloric deficit in his book body rx? Even Adonis would'nt prescribe such low kcals for a 200 lbs man as Connelly does. That is not even taking into account the indeed huge TEF on such a diet (which makes the caloric deficit even greater obviously)
Because you can't ignore the role BMR has in changing body composition, I dont think thats the subject of debate here.
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1000% agre with this!!
You won't get a good debate. You will get studies that show different things under different conditions, and then you will get those studies being twisted around to form a hypothesis vs known fact.
As long as you are not nutrient deficient by standards of muscle growth and as long as calories are counted, it doesn't matter what, when, or how you consume them.
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Arvilla Owning
Mower Owning
Adonis Owning
Congrats TA, you've been exposed. Your credibility is totally shot. You won't recover.
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Arvilla Owning
Mower Owning
Adonis Owning
Congrats TA, you've been exposed. Your credibility is totally shot. You won't recover.
Sorry, the majority do not see it that way you Conservative Pea Brain.
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Sorry, the majority do not see it that way you Conservative Pea Brain.
Translation: I'm upset because I've been exposed.
You won't debate Dr. Connelly, because he will expose YOU as the pea brain.
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Translation: I'm upset because I've been exposed.
agreed,,,
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Translation: I'm upset because I've been exposed.
You won't debate Dr. Connelly, because he will expose YOU as the pea brain.
Translation- I am body88 and I make 7.25 an hour and am a Tea Party Patriot.
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Arvilla Owning
Mower Owning
Adonis Owning
Congrats TA, you've been exposed. Your credibility is totally shot. You won't recover.
credibility when did that ever exist
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Translation: I'm upset because I've been exposed.
You won't debate Dr. Connelly, because he will expose YOU as the pea brain.
QFT. Whenever anyone gets called out like Apenis has they come up with any kind of excise they can to avoid confrontation. The sad thing is everyone anticipated it but was hoping it would be different. So far everytime Apenis gets called out he folds and crawls back into a hole for a couple months. You can't change the stripes on a tiger
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credibility when did that ever exist
It not like I would magically gain any in your eyes. You and some others already have their bias and prejudices made up. Your Informational Process Biasing does not allow the ability to change how or why you think the way you do, even when face to face with glaring evidence and fact.
And this is why the world will seem so confusing to you and this is why you will remain angry with yourself and those around you.
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It not like I would magically gain any in your eyes. You and some others already have their bias and prejudices made up. Your Informational Process Biasing does not allow the ability to change how or why you think the way you do, even when face to face with glaring evidence and fact.
And this is why the world will seem so confusing to you and this is why you will remain angry with yourself and those around you.
no anger here brother, show me some glaring evidence :)
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no anger here brother, show me some glaring evidence :)
Of what?
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what's the common denomination in all of weight loss? calorie defecit. why would you set yourself up for failure by eating like a retard, ignoring the need for variety.
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QFT. Whenever anyone gets called out like Apenis has they come up with any kind of excise they can to avoid confrontation. The sad thing is everyone anticipated it but was hoping it would be different. So far everytime Apenis gets called out he folds and crawls back into a hole for a couple months. You can't change the stripes on a tiger
I thought he posted the deadlift video? Quite a feat of strenght and endurance 220pounds for 100plus reps
Dont listen to them TA you are a man of honor and integrity,
How is the anti gravity suit coming along by the way?
What did NASA say, bet there excited
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Still going back and forth bitching and trying to make a point on the forum...not face to face in a debate that Mindspin was trying to set up. Eventually trying to water down the thread so it will go away and get lost with all the other ones. This won't happen plain and simple.
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It not like I would magically gain any in your eyes. You and some others already have their bias and prejudices made up. Your Informational Process Biasing does not allow the ability to change how or why you think the way you do, even when face to face with glaring evidence and fact.
And this is why the world will seem so confusing to you and this is why you will remain angry with yourself and those around you.
that evidence of course
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what's the common denomination in all of weight loss? calorie defecit. why would you set yourself up for failure by eating like a retard, ignoring the need for variety.
I think you answered your own question
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Oh...it is that VERY misconception that is at the heart of all this confusion. We have to get this debate going. I want you guys to hear Scott explain this!
hey im closer to scott it would be cheaper to fly me down and im a pretty big getbig name you know ;) i dont think anyone would disagree that i could defend adam's, wavelengths and several others opinions on the issue.... afterall, its all just physics..
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You know, even though the topic is on Adonis going to debate this guy, no one ever tries to defend the opposing position. Adonis says, "Here are the facts and the science behind them". You guys say, "Ha coward won't debate".
However, if the doctor wanted to debate, why not do it right here? Is he busy trying to rework the laws of therm o dynamics?
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You know, even though the topic is on Adonis going to debate this guy, no one ever tries to defend the opposing position. Adonis says, "Here are the facts and the science behind them". You guys say, "Ha coward won't debate".
However, if the doctor wanted to debate, why not do it right here? Is he busy trying to rework the laws of therm o dynamics?
Pathetic, Adam.
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For years he has been touting that his "adonis principles" are the ideal way to eat in order to gain muscle/lose fat. These principles are, of course, complete bullshit.
I offered to fly him & his "girlfriend" to California (at my expense) so that he may debate this with Dr. Scott Connelly. I would, of course videotape everything and post it on GB. Unfortunately, he came up with 15 pages of excuses (see link below), thus exposing himself as a complete fraud :-\
The fact remains - calorie counting is useless.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=328439.375;topicseen
Perhaps, I'm missing something.
Why can't they just have the debate right here on a separate thread?
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Adonis knows he's full of shit. He's a troll. Can't be owned that way.
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Connelly believes that you can take a pair of monozygotic twins and put them both on an identical training regimen and identical caloric consumption. However, if one is getting his calories primarily from protein, and the other is getting his calories primarily from carbs, they will end up with differing body composition. In spite of the fact that both twins are burning & consuming the same amount of calories, the twin that is consuming primarily protein will end up with more muscle and lower body fat.
This sounds right to me - I don't see how it could be any other way. If you take the size of the calories and the amount of exercise out the equation and just focus on the parameters of macronutrient composition - protein and carbs being the differing variables, then it stands to reason that someone's body composition would be different than someone elses who ate protein rather than carbs and vice versa.
I don't even know why we're arguing this - bodybuilders have been proving it for years.
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This sounds right to me - I don't see how it could be any other way. If you take the size of the calories and the amount of exercise out the equation and just focus on the parameters of macronutrient composition - protein and carbs being the differing variables, then it stands to reason that someone's body composition would be different than someone elses who ate protein rather than carbs and vice versa.
I don't even know why we're arguing this - bodybuilders have been proving it for years.
I'm not convinced. Lowering carb intake can slow thyroid ouput and although replacing these with protein may seem ideal, I'd of thought a more rounded spectrum of macronutrients, with say 20 percent protein and the rest roughly split between carbs and fats would be closer to maintaining hormone levels, which inevitably determine body composition.
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This sounds right to me - I don't see how it could be any other way. If you take the size of the calories and the amount of exercise out the equation and just focus on the parameters of macronutrient composition - protein and carbs being the differing variables, then it stands to reason that someone's body composition would be different than someone elses who ate protein rather than carbs and vice versa.
I don't even know why we're arguing this - bodybuilders have been proving it for years.
I"m with you here. I don't need pages of cut & paste studies to tell me otherwise, as I've been doing it for 15+ years. In the winter I eat whatever I want, pizza, burgers, ice cream, cookies, etc. and usually only two meals in the latter part of the day. In the summer, I UP my calories and eat only lean proteins & complex carbs over 6-8 meals. The difference in my body composition is the only proof I need. More calories of the right foods and I get super lean.
The cool part is, that science is finally catching up to what bodybuilders have known for years, and Connelly is at the forefront of this.
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I didn't follow the debate, have no idea who Adonis or the usual characters are, but I have 12 years of training experience to draw on. I'll just summarise my thoughts are it's gym time soon.
As I understand from skimming through the thread, Adonis advocate that it's possible to dial down or not gain fat whilst just keeping an eye on your calories, regardless which source they may be from? I hope I got that bit right otherwise the rest of my post may not make sense.
I started training at 16 and trained my ass off until 22. I ate a typical bodybuilder diet with any 'cheat' food once a year, at most. I was going to take Dorian's crown man, can't eat shit! Naturally my gains was great, I carried a good amount of muscle. I put it down to a good diet, hard training and enough sleep.
Then I grew a brain, went to university and jacked in heavy training. I started gorging myself on all those foods I could never eat for years and gaine a lot of fat.
I entered the workforce and found little time to eat, but still kept on eating shit, just in fewer quantities. Can you imagine my surprise as my weight start dropping and stabilised at 211 pounds on my 6'3 frame. It's been there the past few years, only varying during holidays when I eat more. It always drop back around the 211 mark without me doing much cardio or any training at all. These days I go to the gym and hit the weights, but nothing heavy and only because it's such a habit and gets me away from the nagging girlfriend for a bit :)
In short, 50% of my diet is shit, 50% decent and I'm not gaining any fat.
Maybe Adonis got a point?
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I didn't follow the debate, have no idea who Adonis or the usual characters are, but I have 12 years of training experience to draw on. I'll just summarise my thoughts are it's gym time soon.
As I understand from skimming through the thread, Adonis advocate that it's possible to dial down or not gain fat whilst just keeping an eye on your calories, regardless which source they may be from? I hope I got that bit right otherwise the rest of my post may not make sense.
I started training at 16 and trained my ass off until 22. I ate a typical bodybuilder diet with any 'cheat' food once a year, at most. I was going to take Dorian's crown man, can't eat shit! Naturally my gains was great, I carried a good amount of muscle. I put it down to a good diet, hard training and enough sleep.
Then I grew a brain, went to university and jacked in heavy training. I started gorging myself on all those foods I could never eat for years and gaine a lot of fat.
I entered the workforce and found little time to eat, but still kept on eating shit, just in fewer quantities. Can you imagine my surprise as my weight start dropping and stabilised at 211 pounds on my 6'3 frame. It's been there the past few years, only varying during holidays when I eat more. It always drop back around the 211 mark without me doing much cardio or any training at all. These days I go to the gym and hit the weights, but nothing heavy and only because it's such a habit and gets me away from the nagging girlfriend for a bit :)
In short, 50% of my diet is shit, 50% decent and I'm not gaining any fat.
Maybe Adonis got a point?
congrats, you lost a ton of muscle and scale weight, and you think you've made progress.
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congrats, you lost a ton of muscle and scale weight, and you think you've made progress.
Perhaps my post did not drop enough hints. I stopped caring for muscle, any muscle. I'm fairly lean now and still have people telling me, 'I can see you used to train many years ago'. I look nothing like a body builder wearing close and nothing like one without. I care now only for not getting fat. My post was also not aimed to boast about my progress as I obviously not didn't make any.
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It is absolutely shocking to me how many "body builders" on this site are talking about losing/gaining "weight". I thought that was something only fat housewives talked about. It is this obsession with "weight" that fuels the worthless diet industry. "Lose 15lbs in just 10 days!" is the typical BS you see on all these magic pills and programs. Never mind that all the weight is water or that the more egregious ones cause you to go into starvation mode resulting in muscle wasting and fat preservation.
If you want "lose weight", I suppose that caloric restriction is a good, albeit short-term way to lose "weight", that is until you rebound and gain it all back.
If you want to lose "fat" and preserve "muscle", forget about eating brownies, pizza and donuts.
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Mindspin, you're saying you ate more kcals per day when losing fat than when not losing fat (albeit from different sources), even with extra energy expenditure from TEF and cardio etc calculated in? Completely defying thermodynamics?
The part in bold is very important for the interpretation since this is something that seems to be lost in translation, Adonis is not saying protein is not more thermogenic than the two other macronutrients since it obviously IS and like someone else said, in the long run the difference in TEF WILL add up.
If you want to compare both strategies you have to calibrate for the higher TEF of a Connelly diet.
However you seem very convinced and I'm gladly awaiting the research, if you guys can prove this it would indeed be a shocker to say the least.
What do you think of Connelly's current recommendation to change as many meals as possible to whey shake only meals?
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bump
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It is absolutely shocking to me how many "body builders" on this site are talking about losing/gaining "weight". I thought that was something only fat housewives talked about. It is this obsession with "weight" that fuels the worthless diet industry. "Lose 15lbs in just 10 days!" is the typical BS you see on all these magic pills and programs. Never mind that all the weight is water or that the more egregious ones cause you to go into starvation mode resulting in muscle wasting and fat preservation.
If you want "lose weight", I suppose that caloric restriction is a good, albeit short-term way to lose "weight", that is until you rebound and gain it all back.
If you want to lose "fat" and preserve "muscle", forget about eating brownies, pizza and donuts.
No one is saying to eat nothing but carbs and minimize protein. We are saying to get enough protein, and the rest doesn't matter, as long as you are in a deficit.
What is shocking to me is that the calorie restriction on a fat loss plan for 'body builders' is not priority number one. I mean, look at some of the people who follow the high calories specially timed diets. You have genetic anomalies, but you also have (mostly) over nourished guys who have a very hard time losing fat.
Or they do tons and tons of cardio, when they could have just cut calories. Cardio may come into play eventually, but hours upon hours every week are not beneficial for anything except wasting time.
I am supportive of the following:
Getting the protein you need. Anymore than this is useless. Experiment with it, try .5 grams per pound or less, then try 1 gram per pound, then 1.5, then 2, etc. Keep records and see where you fall in place.
Multivitamin for security: Not necessary for the most part, but it doesn't hurt and will make up for any deficiencies.
Supplements like creatine and whatever herbal stuff you like. I may break with Adonis on the supplementation scheme (I take ALOT of shit), but I fully agree with his diet. Most guys screw up with training and never taper. This, 99.9% of the time, is the problem, and eating more will not compensate for the systematic fatigue-only make you fat.
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No one is saying to eat nothing but carbs and minimize protein. We are saying to get enough protein, and the rest doesn't matter, as long as you are in a deficit.
What is shocking to me is that the calorie restriction on a fat loss plan for 'body builders' is not priority number one. I mean, look at some of the people who follow the high calories specially timed diets. You have genetic anomalies, but you also have (mostly) over nourished guys who have a very hard time losing fat.
Or they do tons and tons of cardio, when they could have just cut calories. Cardio may come into play eventually, but hours upon hours every week are not beneficial for anything except wasting time.
I am supportive of the following:
Getting the protein you need. Anymore than this is useless. Experiment with it, try .5 grams per pound or less, then try 1 gram per pound, then 1.5, then 2, etc. Keep records and see where you fall in place.
Multivitamin for security: Not necessary for the most part, but it doesn't hurt and will make up for any deficiencies.
Supplements like creatine and whatever herbal stuff you like. I may break with Adonis on the supplementation scheme (I take ALOT of shit), but I fully agree with his diet. Most guys screw up with training and never taper. This, 99.9% of the time, is the problem, and eating more will not compensate for the systematic fatigue-only make you fat.
Spoken like a true Adonis.
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I"m with you here. I don't need pages of cut & paste studies to tell me otherwise, as I've been doing it for 15+ years. In the winter I eat whatever I want, pizza, burgers, ice cream, cookies, etc. and usually only two meals in the latter part of the day. In the summer, I UP my calories and eat only lean proteins & complex carbs over 6-8 meals. The difference in my body composition is the only proof I need. More calories of the right foods and I get super lean.
The cool part is, that science is finally catching up to what bodybuilders have known for years, and Connelly is at the forefront of this.
So in the winter you meticulously record calorie intake? A guess isn't good enough.
Even Bill Phillips, a Connelly fan, when he did his BS Body of Life transformations, said he ate a slice of pizza a day as part of his diet as it didn't matter since he was in a deficit, eating plenty of protein, etc.
Of course it seems like you are eating more when all you're eating is bland "bodybuilding foods". Sheer volume of food isn't the same as energy density. I'm sure you realize how much brown rice and chicken you have to eat to equal the calories of a pizza with an ice cream dessert. Think!
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It is absolutely shocking to me how many "body builders" on this site are talking about losing/gaining "weight". I thought that was something only fat housewives talked about. It is this obsession with "weight" that fuels the worthless diet industry. "Lose 15lbs in just 10 days!" is the typical BS you see on all these magic pills and programs. Never mind that all the weight is water or that the more egregious ones cause you to go into starvation mode resulting in muscle wasting and fat preservation.
If you want "lose weight", I suppose that caloric restriction is a good, albeit short-term way to lose "weight", that is until you rebound and gain it all back.
If you want to lose "fat" and preserve "muscle", forget about eating brownies, pizza and donuts.
Wrong and there is absolutely no scientific proof that you can't lose weight with optimal body composition if you just get enough protein and reduce calories.
You can easily get ripped eating everything you want in moderation.
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So in the winter you meticulously record calorie intake? A guess isn't good enough.
Even Bill Phillips, a Connelly fan, when he did his BS Body of Life transformations, said he ate a slice of pizza a day as part of his diet as it didn't matter since he was in a deficit, eating plenty of protein, etc.
Of course it seems like you are eating more when all you're eating is bland "bodybuilding foods". Sheer volume of food isn't the same as energy density. I'm sure you realize how much brown rice and chicken you have to eat to equal the calories of a pizza with an ice cream dessert. Think!
Oh Brother. A typical day for me, when I'm in junk food mode is skip breakfast, a protein bar for lunch, pizza or some form of pasta for dinner and a late night bowl of cereal.
When I'm in a good eating mode, a typical day looks like this:
Meal 1 - 2 ProMR packets with TB almond butter, scoop of Progenex Growth & scoop of Progenex Recovery;
Meal 2 - 12 eggs, 1cp oatmeal;
Meal 3 - two chicken breasts, small potato;
Meal 4 - 2 ProMR packets with TB almond butter, scoop of Progenex Growth & scoop of Progenex Recovery
Meal 5 - two chicken breasts and vegetables;
Meal 6 - 8oz flank steak.
**I will snack on walnuts & almods throughout the day.
You're right. I'm not counting calories, but why don't you count them for me and tell me when I'm eating more ::)
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Oh Brother. A typical day for me, when I'm in junk food mode is skip breakfast, a protein bar for lunch, pizza or some form of pasta for dinner and a late night bowl of cereal.
When I'm in a good eating mode, a typical day looks like this:
Meal 1 - 2 ProMR packets with TB almond butter, scoop of Progenex Growth & scoop of Progenex Recovery;
Meal 2 - 12 eggs, 1cp oatmeal;
Meal 3 - two chicken breasts, small potato;
Meal 4 - 2 ProMR packets with TB almond butter scoop of Progenex Growth & scoop of Progenex Recovery
Meal 5 - two chicken breasts and vegetables;
Meal 6 - 8oz flank steak.
**I will snack on walnuts & almods throughout the day.
You're right. I'm not counting calories, but why don't you count them for me and tell me when I'm eating more ::)
everything in bold and striked thorugh could be changed to anything else of equal caloric value and results wuld be equal.
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everything in bold and striked thorugh could be changed to anything else of equal caloric value and results wuld be equal.
i agree
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everything in bold and striked thorugh could be changed to anything else of equal caloric value and results wuld be equal.
If you're a casual athlete I would agree. However, if you're pushing your body to extreme levels, then the added EFAs and the growth factors from the Progenx powders do give you a very noticeable enhancement. I use the ProMr because it's the only MRP on the market that has that creamy texture that makes me fill satiated. A lot like the old MET-Rx.
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If you're a casual athlete I would agree. However, if you're pushing your body to extreme levels, then the added EFAs and the growth factors from the Progenx powders do give you a very noticeable enhancement. I use the ProMr because it's the only MRP on the market that has that creamy texture that makes me fill satiated. A lot like the old MET-Rx.
nothing works better than what is found in food. progenx might be the best supplement on the market.. but in the end it is a supplement, and the best it can possibly do is be an equal substitute for food.
food (adequate nutrients + cals in vs. cals out)
+
training (intense training with adequate recovery time and periodization to avoid platues)
+
drugs (steroids, preferably test..)
it doesnt get any more complex than that.. anyone saying anything different is mislead or misleading or just outright ignorant
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nothing works better than what is found in food. progenx might be the best supplement on the market.. but in the end it is a supplement, and the best it can possibly do is be an equal substitute for food.
food (adequate nutrients + cals in vs. cals out)
+
training (intense training with adequate recovery time and periodization to avoid platues)
+
drugs (steroids, preferably test..)
it doesnt get any more complex than that.. anyone saying anything different is mislead or misleading or just outright ignorant
yes and no. I agree, the right foods are vital. However, there are growth factors found in milk, that do some pretty tricky stuff in the body. Unfortunately, they are not available in high enough quantities. Connelly has not only identified these growth factors, but also found a way to retrieve and concentrate them. That's what is in Progenex.
BTW, this all has nothing to do with the "calorie is a calorie" debate. Regardless of whether or not you use supplements, you still have to get high quality protein in your system throughout the day, and avoid simple sugars, if you want to get lean & build muscle.
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Regardless of whether or not you use supplements, you still have to get high quality protein in your system throughout the day, and avoid simple sugars, if you want to get lean & build muscle.
::)
Why is it either or with you? I bet he has isolated the growth factors in milk, double ::)
How much more proof do you need that you only need adequate protein, carbs, and fat? Why do you think you have to do the mundane BB diet in order to get somewhere? Is it because Cutler told you so?
I have the opposite experience. If I try any bodybuilding pseudo science bullshit and not come in at the same caloric range, I stand still and make no progress. Lower calories and make sure I get enough of everything through stuff I like=progress either with adding muscle or losing fat. Raise calories slightly until I see some fat, then drop them slightly for optimal muscle gain.
You only gain a few ounces of real muscle a week, not pounds upon pounds. No need to expect that.
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TA!> That sounsd like a Guegere. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
/yeass.i ll teleleeee their indi- zzze3dinrorouh. :)
;ll tsr drr-,doium.
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i get a kick out of how some in this thread are saying it's an unfair debate with connelly, how it's on his home turf and adonis won't be prepared etc.
if adonis is right, then he's right. how much more simple does it have to be?
the only reason he doesn't take this challenge is because he knows he can't prove his stance, and connelly will make him look like a fool without his google-fu to fall back on.
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Connelly has not only identified these growth factors, but also found a way to retrieve and concentrate them. That's what is in Progenex.
Is this the same stuff you said was in the "prototype" pills you gave to me & several other GetBig members? The ones you said were too expensive to put into production and the formula would probably never see the light of day? I loved taking those things.
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yes and no. I agree, the right foods are vital. However, there are growth factors found in milk, that do some pretty tricky stuff in the body. Unfortunately, they are not available in high enough quantities. Connelly has not only identified these growth factors, but also found a way to retrieve and concentrate them. That's what is in Progenex.
BTW, this all has nothing to do with the "calorie is a calorie" debate. Regardless of whether or not you use supplements, you still have to get high quality protein in your system throughout the day, and avoid simple sugars, if you want to get lean & build muscle.
Aren't you supposed to avoid mixing Connely's proteins with other protein sources to reap the benefits? I noticed you take the ProMR at the same time. Something to do with "competing transporters"?
And if you absolutely have to avoid simple sugars to get lean and gain muscle, how do you explain all the bodybuilders who get shredded using hundreds of grams of dextrose, or similar, per day during prep? Sure they're on drugs that change things but they also shoot the evil insulin which is bad according to Connelly and everyone knows it's an extremely lipogenic hormone. The answer is that they're generally in a deficit still. In a large caloric excess, lots of extra insulin will make you fat and in a deficit it will hopefully spare muscle or even build it (when on lots of different chemicals). So calories are always a factor in body composition.
I checked the ProMR product and the carbs are from maltodextrin. It says it's a low GI version of malto. Don't know about that, but maltodextrin and the like are usually called evil nutritionally empty carbs by carb phobics. I'm pretty sure the original Met-Rx also contained maltodextrin, the high GI type... and it didn't hinder your cutting, did it?
Is this the same stuff you said was in the "prototype" pills you gave to me & several other GetBig members? The ones you said were too expensive to put into production and the formula would probably never see the light of day? I loved taking those things.
LOL, same BS was spewed by Bill Phillips about Met-Rx. Would probably never be mass marketed, too expensive, etc, etc. Usual marketing BS.
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i get a kick out of how some in this thread are saying it's an unfair debate with connelly, how it's on his home turf and adonis won't be prepared etc.
if adonis is right, then he's right. how much more simple does it have to be?
the only reason he doesn't take this challenge is because he knows he can't prove his stance, and connelly will make him look like a fool without his google-fu to fall back on.
Let's see:
TA and every single study done in support of this concept known to man, every licensed nutritionist, every college educated person, several anecdotal reports from people here and elsewhere, and virtually all conclusive scientific evidence vs a man who claims to have isolated the growth factors in milk. Come on.
Look in the 50's and before, look at those guys. They knew nothing about training, nothing really about a proper 'bodybuilding diet', yet still had a look most guys would kill for. Then steroids hit, increased protein synthesis was realized, and everything changed.
Guys now are doing the same diet concepts invented by guys that were running the test of 5 men. Hell, If I was running a gram a week, I would be eating that way too.
However, even for them (and everyone else), there comes a point when you have done all of the smoke and mirror BS possible and you start reducing calories, yet your macro nutrients remain high (too high for protein generally).
If Connelly wasn't scared, why not do the case study with people here? What does he have to lose if this works so magnificently well?
If he brings out random broscience bullshit and it sounds somewhat plausible, yet Adonis is not prepared for that, what could he do instead of tell him it was bullshit? Then TA would be owned or whatever, and Connelly would sell some books.
Do I have to make it any more clear?
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This really doesn't count as a complete, utter owning because qualifications and shit don't mean anything on GetBig.
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call me an idiot what ever but I don't understand how proteins and fats are calculated in kalories(energymeasurement). I mean it has other functions than being used as energy in the body. People have varying requirements of how much protein they need. For example an 8 y old girl cant utilize as much as an adult man and a steroid user can utilize alot more than the average man.
say a guy eats 400 grams of protein, 1000 grams of carbs and 100 grams of fat
some of these nutrients will be used for other things than energy say 300 of the 400 grams of protein is used for different functions and 50 grams of the 100 grams of fat is used for different functions. That means -300 grams of protein and -50 grams of fat is taken out of the total calorie calculation? and these numbers should be very individual depending on the person.
van_bilderass can explain this for me? I'm confused ???
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Let's see:
TA and every single study done in support of this concept known to man, every licensed nutritionist, every college educated person, several anecdotal reports from people here and elsewhere, and virtually all conclusive scientific evidence vs a man who claims to have isolated the growth factors in milk. Come on.
Everyone once "knew" that the earth was flat and they "knew" that the sun revolved around the earth. Of course they were all wrong.
http://en.tackfilm.se/?id=1271353219075RA14
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi
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This really doesn't count as a complete, utter owning because qualifications and shit don't mean anything on GetBig.
It's a complete owning because Adam refused to accept the offer for him and his "girlfriend" to be flown to California for the weekend for FREE, in order to state his case on video for us all to see. Well, first he accepted. Then he came up with 14 pages of excuses.
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Aren't you supposed to avoid mixing Connely's proteins with other protein sources to reap the benefits? I noticed you take the ProMR at the same time. Something to do with "competing transporters"?
And if you absolutely have to avoid simple sugars to get lean and gain muscle, how do you explain all the bodybuilders who get shredded using hundreds of grams of dextrose, or similar, per day during prep? Sure they're on drugs that change things but they also shoot the evil insulin which is bad according to Connelly and everyone knows it's an extremely lipogenic hormone. The answer is that they're generally in a deficit still. In a large caloric excess, lots of extra insulin will make you fat and in a deficit it will hopefully spare muscle or even build it (when on lots of different chemicals). So calories are always a factor in body composition.
I checked the ProMR product and the carbs are from maltodextrin. It says it's a low GI version of malto. Don't know about that, but maltodextrin and the like are usually called evil nutritionally empty carbs by carb phobics. I'm pretty sure the original Met-Rx also contained maltodextrin, the high GI type... and it didn't hinder your cutting, did it?
LOL, same BS was spewed by Bill Phillips about Met-Rx. Would probably never be mass marketed, too expensive, etc, etc. Usual marketing BS.
Doesn't matter what you mix his proteins with. It's the concentration of the growth factors in them, that do the trick. But again, I don't want to turn this thread into a Connelly protein commercial. It's a totally separate subject from the calorie debate.
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Let's see:
TA and every single study done in support of this concept known to man, every licensed nutritionist, every college educated person, several anecdotal reports from people here and elsewhere, and virtually all conclusive scientific evidence vs a man who claims to have isolated the growth factors in milk. Come on.
Look in the 50's and before, look at those guys. They knew nothing about training, nothing really about a proper 'bodybuilding diet', yet still had a look most guys would kill for. Then steroids hit, increased protein synthesis was realized, and everything changed.
Guys now are doing the same diet concepts invented by guys that were running the test of 5 men. Hell, If I was running a gram a week, I would be eating that way too.
However, even for them (and everyone else), there comes a point when you have done all of the smoke and mirror BS possible and you start reducing calories, yet your macro nutrients remain high (too high for protein generally).
If Connelly wasn't scared, why not do the case study with people here? What does he have to lose if this works so magnificently well?
If he brings out random broscience bullshit and it sounds somewhat plausible, yet Adonis is not prepared for that, what could he do instead of tell him it was bullshit? Then TA would be owned or whatever, and Connelly would sell some books.
Do I have to make it any more clear?
I'm willing to bet most people in the 50s and before ate much healthier than most people do nowadays. Fast food wasn't exactly commonplace back then. Good hearty meals full of protein and good carbs were probably the norm for the guys with the great physiques. People sat down to a good dinner prepared by their wife/mother/girlfriend/whatever. Not eating multiple meals full of empty calories from things like sugar and processed meat.
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I'm willing to bet most people in the 50s and before ate much healthier than most people do nowadays. Fast food wasn't exactly commonplace back then. Good hearty meals full of protein and good carbs were the norm. People sat down to a good dinner prepared by their wife/mother/girlfriend/whatever. Not eating multiple meals full of empty calories from things like sugar and processed meat.
For once we agree on something. Add to that the fact that High Fructose Corn Syrup had not yet invaded our diet. It's now in just about everything we buy at the grocery store.
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For once we agree on something. Add to that the fact that High Fructose Corn Syrup had not yet invaded our diet. It's now in just about everything we buy at the grocery store.
Unfortunately, I'm actually in full agreement with everything you and Dr. Connelly are saying. :o
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calories
Isn't this just an indication/pointer/hint for the gereral public how much energy different foods has for ones body?
Imo it can never be an exact measurment.
I'm no dietician but this is what my logic tells me.
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It's a complete owning because Adam refused to accept the offer for him and his "girlfriend" to be flown to California for the weekend for FREE, in order to state his case on video for us all to see. Well, first he accepted. Then he came up with 14 pages of excuses.
He'll never shut up, LOL!
A few years ago someone was arguing that steroids can't negatively affect kidney function..... with a board certified nephrologist. :)
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calories
Isn't this just an indication/pointer/hint for the gereral public how much energy different foods has for ones body?
Imo it can never be an exact measurment.
I'm no dietician but this is what my logic tells me.
That is what is at the core of the calories problem. You cannot measure calories in/out. The old argument of "There are 3500 calories per pound of body fat. In order to lose just one pound of stored fat we need to burn off 3500 extra calories" is absolute nonsense. Although it seems logical, energy metabolism is very complex and differs greatly between individuals.
Stick to a high-protein moderate carb/fat diet when trying to build muscle. Cut your carbs/sugars and replace them with more protein/fat when trying to lean out. If you like the convenience of using supplements, find a good MRP or whey protein.
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Back in them 50's, 19 cent burgers, 15 cent corn dogs on a stick, $1.19 full course steak dinners, 10 cent biscuits and gravy, 29 cent chicken pot pies with loads of gravy, and ten cent triple decker ice cream cones were very common.
But us gym guys would stick with this new stuff called yogurt, raw eggs, cottage cheese with fresh fruit on top, vitamin E oil in a dark brown bottle and a 10 cent can of tuna squeezed dry through a nylon stocking. And sometimes even a swig of Geritol.
And for fat loss there was nothing better than a couple of hours in the steam room (no saunas yet) and a few spoonfuls of apple cider vinegar. I don't even think aerobics was invented yet. I think that all started after some fat guy's insides got shaken up too much by one of those vibrating belt machines.
And I never did figure out those medicine balls nor bowling pins and some other stuff you never see no more.
I don't think that this history will repeat itself.
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Cue Defense Gimmick.
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For once we agree on something. Add to that the fact that High Fructose Corn Syrup had not yet invaded our diet. It's now in just about everything we buy at the grocery store.
Too bad you don`t know the first thing of what you are talking about. You are DEAD wrong on HFCS.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/88/6/1716S?ijkey=QWxerxxoSOP4o&keytype=ref&siteid=ajcn
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, doi:10.3945/ajcn.2008.25825B
Vol. 88, No. 6, 1716S-1721S, December 2008
2008 American Society for Clinical Nutrition
Supplement: High-Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS): Everything You Wanted to Know, but Were Afraid to Ask
Straight talk about high-fructose corn syrup: what it is and what it ain't1,2,3,4
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP AND SUCROSE ARE NOT SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP IS NOT UNIQUELY OBESITY-PROMOTING
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP IS NOT PREDICTIVE OF US OBESITY
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP IS NOT PREDICTIVE OF GLOBAL OBESITY
ELIMINATING HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP WOULD NOT HAVE A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON OBESITY
CONCLUSIONS
The hypothesis that HFCS is a unique cause of obesity is not supportable in the United States or elsewhere, and the reasons are clear:
HFCS has the same sugars composition as other "benign" fructose-glucose sweeteners such as sucrose, honey, and fruit juice concentrates and dietary sources such as fruits and juices;
Increased caloric intake since 1970 was not due to added sugars (including HFCS) but rather was due to increased consumption of all caloric nutrients, especially fats and flour and cereals;
HFCS is consumed in equal amounts with sucrose in the United States, but at <10% of the amount of sucrose worldwide;
Fructose-glucose sweeteners are metabolized through the same pathways regardless of dietary source;
Although pure fructose can cause metabolic upsets at high concentrations and in the absence of glucose, such experiments are irrelevant for HFCS, which is not consumed at extreme high levels and contains both fructose and glucose;
There is no longer an association between HFCS and obesity in the United States: per capita consumption of HFCS has declined in recent years, whereas obesity rates continue to rise; and
There is absolutely no association between HFCS use and worldwide obesity; HFCS is really a minor sweetener in the global perspective.
No one would disagree that HFCS as a caloric ingredient can lead to weight gain if products sweetened with it are consumed to excess. After all, the same may be said for all caloric ingredients, such as fats, protein, alcohol, and other carbohydrates. But there is absolutely no proof that HFCS acts in any exclusive manner to promote obesity.
It is time to retire the hypothesis that HFCS is uniquely responsible for obesity. (Other articles in this supplement to the Journal include references 34-37.)
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Still making excuses I see ::) Why not just accept the challenge?
Owned.
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I'm willing to bet most people in the 50s and before ate much healthier than most people do nowadays. Fast food wasn't exactly commonplace back then. Good hearty meals full of protein and good carbs were probably the norm for the guys with the great physiques. People sat down to a good dinner prepared by their wife/mother/girlfriend/whatever. Not eating multiple meals full of empty calories from things like sugar and processed meat.
You are wrong here. In the 1950s the average caloric amount people consumed was indeed higher than the average calorie per person consumed today. Foods were more caloric dense and restaurant meals were still around 1000 calories per meal at least.
The same was true as far back as 1897 as I posted the United States Department of Agricultures assessment on an average family diet and average other various laborers diets at the time. This article also featured Eugene Sandows daily diet of Butter, Cakes, Bread Pudding, Beer, 151 grams of fat worth and 501 grams of carbs daily. (I am willing to repost this in case you missed it)
I also posted documentation from 1915 detailing caloric amount for a New York restaurant lunch counter which was HIGHER than any Fast Food meal offered today. These meals would have been regularly consumed day in and day out. (I am willing to re post this as well)
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High Fructose Corn Syrup IS the same as sugar as far as the human body metabolizing it is concerned.
Sugar and High Fructose Corn Syrup both contain approximately 50% glucose and 50% fructose. Also, Sugar and high fructose corn syrup have the same number of calories as most carbohydrates; both have four calories per gram. Because they are nearly compositionally equivalent, the human body cannot tell the difference between high fructose corn syrup and sugar.
Just as informatively challenged are the "health-nuts" that pretend to know what to eat(when they don`t) and demonize a particular food or group of food for no reason whatsoever because they cannot see that there is no causation to the correlation they totally invent out of thin air. Science goes out the window and myth takes over and is continually spread.
It is a shame that High Fructose Corn Syrup has been made out to be the bogeyman, the same goes for Fast Food companies, Ice Cream, Superior crops as a result of breeding......the list goes on and on and on. They vilify these things with no conclusive Scientific evidence whatsoever or they totally misunderstand food related studies altogether.
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Mindspin your arguments are not fact based or backed by Science. You are woefully misinformed on HFCS as are most people.
The Science and Evidence are RIGHT in your FACE (posted in a peer-reviewed Journal above which represents the Consensus on HFCS) , yet you and others choose to believe in myths. Why?
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Too bad you don`t know the first thing of what you are talking about. You are DEAD wrong on HFCS.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/88/6/1716S?ijkey=QWxerxxoSOP4o&keytype=ref&siteid=ajcn
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, doi:10.3945/ajcn.2008.25825B
Vol. 88, No. 6, 1716S-1721S, December 2008
2008 American Society for Clinical Nutrition
Supplement: High-Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS): Everything You Wanted to Know, but Were Afraid to Ask
Straight talk about high-fructose corn syrup: what it is and what it ain't1,2,3,4
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP AND SUCROSE ARE NOT SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP IS NOT UNIQUELY OBESITY-PROMOTING
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP IS NOT PREDICTIVE OF US OBESITY
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP IS NOT PREDICTIVE OF GLOBAL OBESITY
ELIMINATING HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP WOULD NOT HAVE A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON OBESITY
This I agree with.
Obesity in our society is mainly caused by a much more sedentary lifestyle by the majority of the population.
With the advent of the computer, The majority of people in their jobs do less moving and lifting.
Plus with OSHA requirements even construction workers lift a lot less then they use to.
Add in cheap food fast food, caused by the modernizing farming practices and specialized by the fast food chains and it reciepy for weight gain.
It is kind of ironic that the healthiest people, or at least the most active people argue over which diet is better.
When the problem is inactivity. No pill is going to solve that.
By the way Stunt, vibration machines are on a comeback.
http://www.hypergravity.net/Wellcome.html
(http://www.hypergravity.net/Img/eliteprosupremem.jpg)
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How are those vibration machines. I just talked to an old friend and he bought one of the companies that make one of the popular brands of those things. He thinks it would be good for me. They are around $15,000
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Seems a guy so informed and so articulate (and so certain) would be DYING to debate all these myth-peddling charlatans.
Could be wrong.
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Seems a guy so informed and so articulate (and so certain) would be DYING to debate all these myth-peddling charlatans.
Could be wrong.
I think the Scientific Evidence speaks for itself here.
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How are those vibration machines. I just talked to an old friend and he bought one of the companies that make one of the popular brands of those things. He thinks it would be good for me. They are around $15,000
You would be much better off just walking for the same time you would use the machine..
If you have real knee issues get a membership at the local community pool and walk in the water. Don't swim.
The resistance is much higher than swimming, which means it is less efficient. The less efficient the act the more weight you use.
Because it requires more work.
Keep the money and spend it on a reward for the goal that you set.
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That is what is at the core of the calories problem. You cannot measure calories in/out. The old argument of "There are 3500 calories per pound of body fat. In order to lose just one pound of stored fat we need to burn off 3500 extra calories" is absolute nonsense. Although it seems logical, energy metabolism is very complex and differs greatly between individuals.
Stick to a high-protein moderate carb/fat diet when trying to build muscle. Cut your carbs/sugars and replace them with more protein/fat when trying to lean out. If you like the convenience of using supplements, find a good MRP or whey protein.
Total calorie expenditure can be measured with doubly labeled water.
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Yea, Joker, I know. Here's a couple I saw in San Diego , Have yet to see one in a gym though
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Yea, Joker, I know. Here's a couple I saw in San Diego , Have yet to see one in a gym though
is there really any solid scientific evidence for those?
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You would be much better off just walking for the same time you would use the machine..
If you have real knee issues get a membership at the local community pool and walk in the water. Don't swim.
The resistance is much higher than swimming, which means it is less efficient. The less efficient the act the more weight you use.
Because it requires more work.
Keep the money and spend it on a reward for the goal that you set.
It wasn't for the weight loss or conditioning we were thinking about but the circulation issues. These machines are supposed to do wonders for circulation and are recommended for issues like lymphodema which I have and even autism. I would think you would feel pretty good after using one
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It wasn't for the weight loss or conditioning we were thinking about but the circulation issues. These machines are supposed to do wonders for circulation and are recommended for issues like lymphodema which I have and even autism. I would think you would feel pretty good after using one
ever thought that your circulation issues may have something to do with you being overweight?
(no pun intended)
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It wasn't for the weight loss or conditioning we were thinking about but the circulation issues. These machines are supposed to do wonders for circulation and are recommended for issues like lymphodema which I have and even autism. I would think you would feel pretty good after using one
No idea about that.
I believe in Massage for circulation issues.
But I am not an expert.
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ever thought that your circulation issues may have something to do with you being overweight?
(no pun intended)
no actually the lymphodema is from the bite and what it did to the tissue, but that is what every doctor I have seen regarding it told me. So you might be onto something they don't know about. ::) Esepcially since it has only affected the lower right leg which just so happens to be the leg that was bit. But like I said you may know something the others don't
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no actually the lymphodema is from the bite and what it did to the tissue, but that is what every doctor I have seen regarding it told me. So you might be onto something they don't know about. ::) Esepcially since it has only affected the lower right leg which just so happens to be the leg that was bit. But like I said you may know something the others don't
Keith, have any of the doctors suggested lymph node removal in certain locations?
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alright sorry didn't think that would still be an issue since that spiderbite was like 5+? years ago. my bad then.
so that leg still prevents you from working out?
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alright sorry didn't think that would still be an issue since that spiderbite was like 5+? years ago. my bad then.
so that leg still prevents you from working out?
Sometimes. 2 years ago I spent two weeks at Christmas in the hospital cause it swelled so bad (32") it wouldn't go down. Lymphodema has NO cure
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Keith, have any of the doctors suggested lymph node removal in certain locations?
No. very touchy this system. One screw up and it can really fuck with you. I would rather just keep it local there than risk any other shit happening. This past visit to the hospital a couple months ago I went through a battery of tests to see if I had any clots. Thank god that came out okay. I was a little worried. The one thing about the leg is how atrophied it is and the lack of feeling. I use a TENS unit sometimes and on that calf I cannot feel anything even at full power.
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Everyone once "knew" that the earth was flat and they "knew" that the sun revolved around the earth. Of course they were all wrong.
http://en.tackfilm.se/?id=1271353219075RA14
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi
That is good logic to defend your position, I will give you that.
I highly doubt one guy has figured out something that no one else in the field knows about. You can compare it to the 1500's or whatever all you want, but this is different since we have the technology to understand things better.
No one is making weird guesses or anything, it is all meticulously studied and proven.
Hell, if you could eat more calories and just make the ratio different, it would be accepted by everyone since that would be easier to stick to than having a limit on your food intake.
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Doesn't matter what you mix his proteins with. It's the concentration of the growth factors in them, that do the trick. But again, I don't want to turn this thread into a Connelly protein commercial. It's a totally separate subject from the calorie debate.
Well, apparently Connelly told Patrick Arnold (whom I quite like) that they shouldn't be mixed. Individual aminos fine, but complete proteins or peptides no, since there are special transporters for these peptides.
Anyway, so you think maltodextrin is fine as a carb source? It has a GI of about 140, compared to 100 for pure glucose (dextrose). Wont all that insulin mess up my quest for epic leanz? Or do you in principle agree with me that quantity plays an important role? I mean white bread has a GI similar to maltodextrin... why can't I have a piece of white bread with my protein instead? Or candy made of glucose?
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no actually the lymphodema is from the bite and what it did to the tissue, but that is what every doctor I have seen regarding it told me. So you might be onto something they don't know about. ::) Esepcially since it has only affected the lower right leg which just so happens to be the leg that was bit. But like I said you may know something the others don't
I would be very surprised if any doctor didn't think losing weight might help these issues. I mean morbidly obese people already have problems with lymphedema sometimes, without the spider bite. No offense, and I'm no doctor. :)
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Mindspin, can you please answer my question below? Thanks. :)
Connelly has not only identified these growth factors, but also found a way to retrieve and concentrate them. That's what is in Progenex.
Is this the same stuff you said was in the "prototype" pills you gave to me & several other GetBig members? The ones you said were too expensive to put into production and the formula would probably never see the light of day? I loved taking those things.
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I would be very surprised if any doctor didn't think losing weight might help these issues. I mean morbidly obese people already have problems with lymphedema sometimes, without the spider bite. No offense, and I'm no doctor. :)
Of course losing weight will help it. But the weight gain did not make it happen and weight loss will not make it go away. Weight loss will definitely make it easier to get around.
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Of course losing weight will help it. But the weight gain did not make it happen and weight loss will not make it go away. Weight loss will definitely make it easier to get around.
I am really pulling for you man. I put on a sweatshirt today that was gigantic on me now vs when I started. Best feeling in the world.
I hope we can put our past interaction behind us, you seem like a great guy, and once again I apologize for not respecting your accomplishments and so forth.
Maybe in the mean time you can start posting stories again? I really enjoyed reading them, and would love to know of any diet/training discussions you and Stallone had.
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I am really pulling for you man. I put on a sweatshirt today that was gigantic on me now vs when I started. Best feeling in the world.
I hope we can put our past interaction behind us, you seem like a great guy, and once again I apologize for not respecting your accomplishments and so forth.
Maybe in the mean time you can start posting stories again? I really enjoyed reading them, and would love to know of any diet/training discussions you and Stallone had.
I second this. Adonis approved.
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I second this. Adonis approved.
Awesome. Oh, and proof we could not possibly be the same person, especially if the mods would do an IP check.
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Adonis dodging the invitation, still. :-X
OWNED
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Adonis dodging the invitation, still. :-X
OWNED
A free trip to California and just to debate nutrution. ??? ??? Fuck, i would go. :)
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A free trip to California and just to debate nutrution. ??? ??? Fuck, i would go. :)
By all means go.
;)
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Adonis i have a question regarding your principals. If I eat toasted everything bagel and cream cheese for breakfast every morning and something with cheese at night but stay under my caloric threshold and not gaining weight am I still getting choloestrol clogged in my arteries. I have high triglycerids but if I am burning all the calories off, will the cholestrol get burned up too? I cant give up my bagels and cream cheese. thanks in advance.
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Awesome. Oh, and proof we could not possibly be the same person
Well then. Guess that's settled,
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Just chatted with Dr. Connelly and he's decided to join the site and chime in. As soon as Ron verifies his identity he'll be on here to formally invite Adam to the debate in CA. Should be fun!
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Just chatted with Dr. Connelly and he's decided to join the site and chime in. As soon as Ron verifies his identity he'll be on here to formally invite Adam to the debate in CA. Should be fun!
A calorie is a calorie .
Can I go ?
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Just chatted with Dr. Connelly and he's decided to join the site and chime in. As soon as Ron verifies his identity he'll be on here to formally invite Adam to the debate in CA. Should be fun!
Oh lord nothing but bad can come out of this. I hope your prepared Connelly
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He's actually a long time lurker who has posted here from time to time, so he knows what the place is about.
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15 pages and Adam is yet to accept the challenge.
Oh well, looks like Mindspin has owned him into oblivion.
It would have been very entertaining to watch Connelly make Adam look foolish. Deep inside, all of you know what would have happened if Adam had accepted. Adam knows too...that's why he didn't accept.
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15 pages and Adam is yet to accept the challenge.
Oh well, looks like Mindspin has owned him into oblivion.
It would have been very entertaining to watch Connelly make Adam look foolish. Deep inside, all of you know what would have happened if Adam had accepted. Adam knows too...that's why he didn't accept.
Very True.
Watch Adam either crawl under the table and quiver like a mouse if Connelly posts here or either cut and paste untold pages upon pages of "scientific proof"
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i'll debate this fraud.
you cannot ignore over 15 metabolic ward studies that all without fail prove a calorie is a calorie.
better minds than i, adonis, wave and candy have debated Dr's about this stuff. It always goes the same way.
they post a study or a few studies all with serious flaws. You point out said flaws and they make excuses.
you then post metabolic ward studies ( the creme de la creme of nutrition/calorie studies) and they cannot explain why they all show why a calorie is a calorie. ::)
the better minds i refer to are called : colpo, mcdonald, ellis and aragon.
any one of these authors and experts in the field would literally own the shit out of dr connelly without trying.
i doubt however if the good dr would ever dare to debate them.
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i'll debate this fraud.
you cannot ignore over 15 metabolic ward studies that all without fail prove a calorie is a calorie.
better minds than i, adonis, wave and candy have debated Dr's about this stuff. It always goes the same way.
they post a study or a few studies all with serious flaws. You point out said flaws and they make excuses.
you then post metabolic ward studies ( the creme de la creme of nutrition/calorie studies) and they cannot explain why they all show why a calorie is a calorie. ::)
the better minds i refer to are called : colpo, mcdonald, ellis and aragon.
any one of these authors and experts in the field would literally own the shit out of dr connelly without trying.
i doubt however if the good dr would ever dare to debate them.
Very well said, I would love to see a debate between Connelly and Aragon.
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(http://darkotix.dreamhosters.com/ll-montauk/draco.jpg)
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It would help if you guys set a time for the debate
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no actually the lymphodema is from the bite and what it did to the tissue, but that is what every doctor I have seen regarding it told me. So you might be onto something they don't know about. ::) Esepcially since it has only affected the lower right leg which just so happens to be the leg that was bit. But like I said you may know something the others don't
seems like you should be seeing doctors in Boston or New York, what the hell could a doctor from Las Vegas know?
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I would put my money on Adonis to knock the fuck out both Mindspin and Connelly with one arm. Kid's got reach.
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I would put my money on Adonis to knock the fuck out both Mindspin and Connelly with one arm. Kid's got reach.
big call Alex..
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hopefully we can circle the wagons as getbiggers and run doctor conelly off the board just like we did will twink.
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I would put my money on Adonis to knock the fuck out both Mindspin and Connelly with one arm. Kid's got reach.
alex i don't think t.a. could knock out glass joe from the original punch out .
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The statement, "a calorie is a calorie" is correct since by definition a "calorie" can be nothing more than a "calorie" but that it where it ends as far as Adam's aurgument. A calorie from protein certainly have a different effect on the body than a calorie from carbs and fats. I can not understand how this is such a big issue as it is very simple.
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The statement, "a calorie is a calorie" is correct since by definition a "calorie" can be nothing more than a "calorie" but that it where it ends as far as Adam's aurgument. A calorie from protein certainly have a different effect on the body than a calorie from carbs and fats. I can not understand how this is such a big issue as it is very simple.
"A grain of sand is a grain of sand"
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nobody ever denied the effect of protein on body composition
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"A grain of sand is a grain of sand"
Exactly ;D I'm surprised that no one here even realized this before.
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Exactly ;D I'm surprised that no one here even realized this before.
very true, of course a cal is a cal but like you said- NOT all calories are equal
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nobody ever denied the effect of protein on body composition
While the statement " a calorie is a calorie" may be true, the effects on the body of one type of a single calorie can and usually is quite different than another type of calorie. Therefore a calorie is not a calorie when taking in account the effect it has on the body which is far more important than making the blanket statement that Adam likes to harp.
Calorie counting only works when adjusting your macros in such a way so a person stays full longer. Protein is best for this and is no secret. Low fat diets have always failed and always will. I person who eats low fat will always be hungry and can also be deficient in fat soluble vitamins.
Also, while all diets do boil down to calorie content I have proven thru out the years that a 2000 calorie diet based mainly on carbs and low fat content is not the same as a 2000 calorie diet that is comprised of mainly protein and fat with little carb content. This is largely, but not solely due to insulin response. Adam is of the opinion that a person needs very little protein. While it has been proven the protein keeps a person satisfied longer this would not be possible while consuming very little protein with mainly carbs and or fat making up the bulk of calorie content.
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While the statement " a calorie is a calorie" may be true, the effects on the body of one type of a single calorie can and usually is quite different than another type of calorie. Therefore a calorie is not a calorie when taking in account the effect it has on the body which is far more important than making the blanket statement that Adam likes to harp.
Calorie counting only works when adjusting your macros in such a way so a person stays full longer. Protein is best for this and is no secret. Low fat diets have always failed and always will. I person who eats low fat will always be hungry and can also be deficient in fat soluble vitamins.
Also, while all diets do boil down to calorie content I have proven thru out the years that a 2000 calorie diet based mainly on carbs and low fat content is not the same as a 2000 calorie diet that is comprised of mainly protein and fat with little carb content. This is largely, but not solely due to insulin response. Adam is of the opinion that a person needs very little protein. While it has been proven the protein keeps a person satisfied longer this would not be possible while consuming very little protein with mainly carbs and or fat making up the bulk of calorie content.
yes this is true, if it was not biochemistry would end at. calories are calories. The implicit effects of the seperate macronutrients on hormones cannot be understated. Also add to the fact that low carb diets reduce blood pressure and dyslipidemia, along with low fat diets reducing testosterone etc.. it's easy to make a case that body composition will be negatively effected.
If anyone is saying that calorie counting wont reduce both fat and fat free mass they are mistaken, caloric restriction will result in weight loss.
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Low fat diets have always failed and always will. I person who eats low fat will always be hungry and can also be deficient in fat soluble vitamins.
You're probably talking about regular folks trying to lose weight, but FWIW the hardest, most ripped bodybuilders I have seen personally have always been those who subscribe to the extremely low fat diets. One guy wouldn't even eat oatmeal, replaced it with something else that had NO fats (forget what grain it was).:D Maybe they could have achieved the same level of rippedness by replacing some carbs with fat, or even going on keto diets, but they couldn't have gotten any leaner as they were as ripped as it gets. :D
Some of the most ripped guys who post on bodybuilding forums have been low fat, moderate carb guys as well. Take Alex Azarian, oatmeal with brown sugar as breakfast is one part I remember. Doesn't Chris Aceto also give mostly low fat diets to his pro clients? My point is that whatever insulin load you get from carbs don't seem to hamper fat loss. Insulin isn't something you should worry about if you're in a deficit.
While I'm not an advocate of zero fat, high carb diets necessarily (definitely need to supplement with fish oils at least if you do these diets), they seem to work for bodybuilding.
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Alex Azarian, oatmeal with brown sugar
And beer too :D
During my prep, especially during the hot summer, I would do this.. (at home i would bust out my cardio).. run downstairs... throw 2 coors lights in the freezer.. jump in the shower.. they would get nice and freezing cold, I would down those suckers, get a nice little buzz. Then my post cardio meal was usually 2 packs of maple and brown sugar oats and 8 oz of steak.. It is good!
This past year, i dropped the beer and oats and never got quite the same condition. Im going back to what worked for me for several years...
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And beer too :D
Sure that is crazy shredded but make no mistake, that picture has been sharpened all way to hell and back.
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Sure that is crazy shredded but make no mistake, that picture has been sharpened all way to hell and back.
Yeah I know. He is pretty ripped though.
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You're probably talking about regular folks trying to lose weight, but FWIW the hardest, most ripped bodybuilders I have seen personally have always been those who subscribe to the extremely low fat diets. One guy wouldn't even eat oatmeal, replaced it with something else that had NO fats (forget what grain it was).:D Maybe they could have achieved the same level of rippedness by replacing some carbs with fat, or even going on keto diets, but they couldn't have gotten any leaner as they were as ripped as it gets. :D
Some of the most ripped guys who post on bodybuilding forums have been low fat, moderate carb guys as well. Take Alex Azarian, oatmeal with brown sugar as breakfast is one part I remember. Doesn't Chris Aceto also give mostly low fat diets to his pro clients? My point is that whatever insulin load you get from carbs don't seem to hamper fat loss. Insulin isn't something you should worry about if you're in a deficit.
While I'm not an advocate of zero fat, high carb diets necessarily (definitely need to supplement with fish oils at least if you do these diets), they seem to work for bodybuilding.
Yes I was talking about general "weight loss" and obese people. Although I will disagree with you about the most ripped people being on low fat diets and that is a whole other subject.
As far as Alex is concerned and no offense to him those pics are enhanced on purpose to make him look better IE more ripped grainier and deeper separation. Take a look at him on stage and you will see how he really looks.
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Yea, Joker, I know. Here's a couple I saw in San Diego , Have yet to see one in a gym though
I carry 16 different types of vibration fitness units including the portable aerobic model. A lot of gyms are buying it to add more variation and attract new people to sign up.
http://www.caliberfitness.com/proshop/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=69
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Yes!
Very simple, if I burn X amount of calories daily all I need to do is cut calories to an amount less than X to lose fat.
How can you even argue with that? ???
because it isnt that simple.
you will lose weight- not all of it will be fat, and the body leaves fat burning to the very last resort, so any initial loss will not be mostly fat.
however a calorie isnt a calorie as the body will spare what it can depending on the nutrient balance that it is currently in.
So if you have a high fat diet- i..e little carbs and little protein then a calorific deficit will burn fat, but it will not burn all the fat you're taking in, as it tends to store that. It will however not be able to replenish the existing carbs and proteins in your system so will instead result in burnt fat, and burnt carbs/protein.
since you're on low protein and carbs, then you will actually lose size and energy, resulting in a lower metabolism and even less fat burning, and more fat absorption.
on the other hand if you have a low fat diet, your body will preferentially burn proteins and carbs in an effort to store the fats. If you have a calorific deficit, you will burn those nutrients as well as some fats, but since you're on a low fat diet, you will actually end up reducing your fat stores over time, but yes you will burn the good calories. The difference is that by burning less fat, your metabolism will stay active as it requires more digestive action to break down the lower energy nutrients so thus will continue to burn more efficiently.
so although it is true that you will lose fat with a colorific deficit, you may actually be inputting more fat to replace it, and actually slowing your metabolism.
the thing that eveyrone has forgotten is also that this does not work as a static regimen.
the body again adapts to make use of the nutrient composition it is receiving. if it gets high protein then after a few weeks, it burns lots of protein as it attempts to find a balance. same for carbs, and not quite the same for fat- fat is actually stored as part of our survival mechanism. a high fat diet burns fat after a while, but also stores alot of it.
thats why a calorie isnt a calorie.
and thats why some skinny people have high fat %.
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I Says the Duck.
(http://api.ning.com/files/e5mo3DhIA*GPNxUTTaAxyAgUM86cpjdwFpcaZBXK9rpiAQZVpavCXhKOhw138D7ZK0WJyfgD5ChoeUWF8zLKB1fWchk6Nimb/UnforgivenHarris.jpg)
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I Says the Duck.
(http://api.ning.com/files/e5mo3DhIA*GPNxUTTaAxyAgUM86cpjdwFpcaZBXK9rpiAQZVpavCXhKOhw138D7ZK0WJyfgD5ChoeUWF8zLKB1fWchk6Nimb/UnforgivenHarris.jpg)
does this mean u accept the challenge to debate? this could possibly be the greatest getbig thread ever!
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I carry 16 different types of vibration fitness units including the portable aerobic model. A lot of gyms are buying it to add more variation and attract new people to sign up.
http://www.caliberfitness.com/proshop/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=69
Goodrum we don't want to know what you stick up your ass. Keep this fitness related. By, the way gyms are not buying these machines. Rehab clinics and med facilities are. Just like the Total Gym. 90% of those vibration machines don't do shit but shake the shit out of you. For it to be beneficial it has to be at a certain speed or vibration or something like that. Only the machines that offer a wide range of vibration are any good. And they are way over priced
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While the statement " a calorie is a calorie" may be true, the effects on the body of one type of a single calorie can and usually is quite different than another type of calorie. Therefore a calorie is not a calorie when taking in account the effect it has on the body which is far more important than making the blanket statement that Adam likes to harp.
Calorie counting only works when adjusting your macros in such a way so a person stays full longer. Protein is best for this and is no secret. Low fat diets have always failed and always will. I person who eats low fat will always be hungry and can also be deficient in fat soluble vitamins.
Also, while all diets do boil down to calorie content I have proven thru out the years that a 2000 calorie diet based mainly on carbs and low fat content is not the same as a 2000 calorie diet that is comprised of mainly protein and fat with little carb content. This is largely, but not solely due to insulin response. Adam is of the opinion that a person needs very little protein. While it has been proven the protein keeps a person satisfied longer this would not be possible while consuming very little protein with mainly carbs and or fat making up the bulk of calorie content.
I never said "a calorie is a calorie" because it doesn't explain anything. Of course the statement is true (A = A) but obviously not every food has the exact same properties.
I disagree that low fat diets fail, many people use them successfully.
Regarding your last statement, metabolic ward studies clearly show that this is not the case. As long as protein is sufficient, fat vs. carb intake has no significant effect, neither on weight nor on body composition.
I think the satiety issue (convenience factor) must be separated from the essential factors when it comes to weight and body composition in order to know what really works.
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Goodrum we don't want to know what you stick up your ass. Keep this fitness related. By, the way gyms are not buying these machines. Rehab clinics and med facilities are. Just like the Total Gym. 90% of those vibration machines don't do shit but shake the shit out of you. For it to be beneficial it has to be at a certain speed or vibration or something like that. Only the machines that offer a wide range of vibration are any good. And they are way over priced
No Keith, gyms are buying these machines. I've sold 10 of them to different facilities in the past year if you actually knew anything, they would help you with your little "lack of oxygen problem" since it promotes better blood circulation. I carry 19 different models including the Turbosonic Line so I have a pretty good spread of the home, rehab, and fitness market
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No Keith, gyms are buying these machines. I've sold 10 of them to different facilities in the past year if you actually knew anything, they would help you with your little "lack of oxygen problem" since it promotes better blood circulation. I carry 19 different models including the Turbosonic Line so I have a pretty good spread of the home, rehab, and fitness market
No one has Blue Stars now Vince since the site went down just fyi.
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Funny story about the vibration plates.....we sold the Power Plate brand...$4k plus.....and it was always funny when women tried them out in the store....they loved them of course.
One day i was showing ellipticals to a guy who had his teenage daughters with him. One was "advanced" for her age physically and insisted on trying the machine which was located by our front windows. Two teen boy were walking by and just stopped and stared, slack jawed......the poor dad just looked at me with a "see what I go thru" look and told her to get off the machine. Poor guy....hahaha
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No Keith, gyms are buying these machines. I've sold 10 of them to different facilities in the past year if you actually knew anything, they would help you with your little "lack of oxygen problem" since it promotes better blood circulation. I carry 19 different models including the Turbosonic Line so I have a pretty good spread of the home, rehab, and fitness market
Interesting. If there is anyone who reads this and there is a vibration machine in their gym please post it. Cause I don't think there are any here in Vegas or Hawaii. And so you warehouse all these machines? Or you just take the order and the company fullfil the order and you get a commission.
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Interesting. If there is anyone who reads this and there is a vibration machine in their gym please post it. Cause I don't think there are any here in Vegas or Hawaii. And so you warehouse all these machines? Or you just take the order and the company fullfil the order and you get a commission.
I only keep the Powerfit brands in a warehouse because you have to purchase them by the pallet which is very inexpensive. The Turbosonics are Factory Direct because they way too expensive.
Right now, I'm trying my luck in the Hemlock Wood Sauna market and I'm working with a deal from Luxu Saunas for their steam showers system to be sold by my company because I feel that they will be perfect for personal training studio owners to REALLY separate themselves from a regular gym. It is a gorgeous piece of equipment that to bring clients back in a jiffy.
Click below if you really want to see what I mean..
http://cgi.ebay.com/STEAM-SHOWER-SAUNA-WHIRLPOOL-HOT-TUB-MASSAGE-BATH-SPA-/290436849333?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439f629eb5
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I only keep the Powerfit brands in a warehouse because you have to purchase them by the pallet which is very inexpensive. The Turbosonics are Factory Direct because they way too expensive.
Right now, I'm trying my luck in the Hemlock Wood Sauna market and I'm working with a deal from Luxu Saunas for their steam showers system to be sold by my company because I feel that they will be perfect for personal training studio owners to REALLY separate themselves from a regular gym. It is a gorgeous piece of equipment that to bring clients back in a jiffy.
Click below if you really want to see what I mean..
http://cgi.ebay.com/STEAM-SHOWER-SAUNA-WHIRLPOOL-HOT-TUB-MASSAGE-BATH-SPA-/290436849333?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439f629eb5
Well I gotta tell you that steam shower combo thing is awesome.
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Funny story about the vibration plates.....we sold the Power Plate brand...$4k plus.....and it was always funny when women tried them out in the store....they loved them of course.
One day i was showing ellipticals to a guy who had his teenage daughters with him. One was "advanced" for her age physically and insisted on trying the machine which was located by our front windows. Two teen boy were walking by and just stopped and stared, slack jawed......the poor dad just looked at me with a "see what I go thru" look and told her to get off the machine. Poor guy....hahaha
LOLOLOL ;D
poor guy
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what is the best vibration machine out there (no worry about price)
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Yes I was talking about general "weight loss" and obese people. Although I will disagree with you about the most ripped people being on low fat diets and that is a whole other subject.
As far as Alex is concerned and no offense to him those pics are enhanced on purpose to make him look better IE more ripped grainier and deeper separation. Take a look at him on stage and you will see how he really looks.
??? jay cutler has turned up worse for olympias and won.
anybody can miss their peak for shows jim ( see wolf in the recent show)
claiming your high fat diet is better than moderate carbs based on this pic is nonsense. would you like me to throw up a kamali pic to show everyone how your diet works ?
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what is the best vibration machine out there (no worry about price)
a rampant rabbit i believe.
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??? jay cutler has turned up worse for olympias and won.
anybody can miss their peak for shows jim ( see wolf in the recent show)
claiming your high fat diet is better than moderate carbs based on this pic is nonsense. would you like me to throw up a kamali pic to show everyone how your diet works ?
There are plenty of pics of King on here when I trained him so do a search if you want to see them. As far as Alex I have never seen a pic of him onstage where he looked like he did in the enhanced pics so if there any I am sincerely interested in seeing them. Also, I have NEVER claimed "my diet" is better than another. Not sure I get a point in your post.
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a rampant rabbit i believe.
I got a machine coming so I wanted to see if it was good. From what I understand it is among the best. X7
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I got a machine coming so I wanted to see if it was good. From what I understand it is among the best. X7
Did you buy this machine from Goodrum? :-\
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I sell the Turbosonic line but I haven't sold one this year....just the Powerfit models.
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There are plenty of pics of King on here when I trained him so do a search if you want to see them. As far as Alex I have never seen a pic of him onstage where he looked like he did in the enhanced pics so if there any I am sincerely interested in seeing them. Also, I have NEVER claimed "my diet" is better than another. Not sure I get a point in your post.
i could post any pic of kamali while you trained him and he would always look worse than alex.
So not sure I get a point in your post.
also regarding alex's pics, i spoke to him on email and he told me the pics were not photo shopped, the lighting was changed a little though.
he sent me photos of himself in his garden looking very close to these pics condition wise - these were on a bright sunny day with very little shadows etc and he looked just as outstanding.
anyway, apart from your irrational hatred of carbs you shouldn't mention you trained kamali, seriously.
you will never get another customer if people realise. :-\
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also regarding alex's pics, i spoke to him on email and he told me the pics were not photo shopped, the lighting was changed a little though.
he sent me photos of himself in his garden looking very close to these pics condition wise - these were on a bright sunny day with very little shadows etc and he looked just as outstanding.
Alex was obviously in a very good condition so he looked awesome no matter if he was photoshopped or not. But those gym pics have been sharpened quite drastically. Almost to the point of it being ridiculous. If you have any kind of experience with photoshop you'd see it right away.
Look especially at the veins on his right forearm and how the shadows are over accentuated for example.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=328721.0;attach=372635;image)
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Alex was obviously in a very good condition so he looked awesome no matter if he was photoshopped or not. But those gym pics have been sharpened quite drastically. Almost to the point of it being ridiculous. If you have any kind of experience with photoshop you'd see it right away.
Look especially at the veins on his right forearm and how the shadows are over accentuated for example.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=328721.0;attach=372635;image)
he admitted his wife cleaned up the pics, but they were not photoshopped or morphed.
the guy achieved a level of detail very rarely seen, but he missed his peak and you have guys like jim claiming they were total fabrications and alex's diet could not possibly be responsible for the out of this world conditioning shown in said picture.
facts are facts - on that day alex looked like he was carved from stone, kamali under jim looked like he was carved from butter :-\
draw your own conclusions.
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he admitted his wife cleaned up the pics, but they were not photoshopped or morphed.
the guy achieved a level of detail very rarely seen, but he missed his peak and you have guys like jim claiming they were total fabrications and alex's diet could not possibly be responsible for the out of this world conditioning shown in said picture.
facts are facts - on that day alex looked like he was carved from stone, kamali under jim looked like he was carved from butter :-\
draw your own conclusions.
Oh ok, perhaps you're not aware of what the sharpening tool does. Here I'll show you:
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Oh ok, perhaps you're not aware of what the sharpening tool does. Here I'll show you:
i see what you mean, but i don't see that level of sharpening on alex's pic - perhaps some.
can you unsharpen alex's pic to compare?
like i said though, he sent me garden pics looking as good.
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I just went from 8% to 5% ;D
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i see what you mean, but i don't see that level of sharpening on alex's pic - perhaps some.
can you unsharpen alex's pic to compare?
like i said though, he sent me garden pics looking as good.
Ok and that's your subjective opinion. I can tell right away that Alex's pic has been sharpened a lot, I guess it comes from experience. There's a certain contrast to those veins and striations that do not look like that right out of the camera. And honestly, in this particular instance it's not even really debatable since it's so obvious.
There's no real good way of unsharpening a pic since what sharpening does is it reduces detail and information to enhance contrast/distinction between lines. So to make that picture fuzzier would just result in a weird looking mess.
Oh well, perhaps you'll understand once you get familiar with photographs and photoshop, young jedi.
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Ok and that's your subjective opinion. I can tell right away that Alex's pic has been sharpened a lot, I guess it comes from experience. There's a certain contrast to those veins and striations that do not look like that right out of the camera. And honestly, in this particular instance it's not even really debatable since it's so obvious.
There's no real good way of unsharpening a pic since what sharpening does is it reduces detail and information to enhance contrast/distinction between lines. So to make that picture fuzzier would just result in a weird looking mess.
Oh well, perhaps you'll understand once you get familiar with photographs and photoshop, young jedi.
fair enough, and like i said he did admit his wife cleaned up the pic - i don't know what else you want me to say :-\
waves pic shows it too - but its clear alex looked in great shape regardless.
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He definitely looked great and sharpening doesn't really add detail.
It kind of flattens out the pic too, I don't think it necessarily looks better.
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fair enough, and like i said he did admit his wife cleaned up the pic - i don't know what else you want me to say :-\
waves pic shows it too - but its clear alex looked in great shape regardless.
It's cool.
It's just that Alex's wife must have gotten a bit carried away cleaning up that pic. She knew very well what she was doing, that is no innocent minor "touch up". I remember reading somewhere that his wife is/was a professional photographer.
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He definitely looked great and sharpening doesn't really add detail.
It kind of flattens out the pic too, I don't think it necessarily looks better.
I agree. There's an important difference between adding detail and enhancing detail though.
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I agree. There's an important difference between adding detail and enhancing detail though.
Yeah of course, technically impossible to automatically "add" detail anyway.
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this thread is useless without pics if Jizzbell
Jezebelle > a calorie is just a calorie
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fair enough, and like i said he did admit his wife cleaned up the pic - i don't know what else you want me to say :-\
::)
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I just went from 8% to 5% ;D
Nice bro...
I hope your not considering holding that condition year round..You may break a bone easily. :'(
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Nice bro...
I hope your not considering holding that condition year round..You may break a bone easily. :'(
Dude you can just talk to wave and lose 1% BF the man knows his stuff.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=328721.0;attach=372635;image)
That body has been altered so much the head almost looks like a photoshop in comparison.
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::)
[/quote
hows tamali doing these days jim?
looking better than alex i assume ?
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::)
[/quote
hows tamali doing these days jim?
looking better than alex i assume ?
Bro, I was wondering where you were? Thought maybe you were busy "cleaning up" your kitchen or "cleaning up" your car. ::)
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Bro, I was wondering where you were? Thought maybe you were busy "cleaning up" your kitchen or "cleaning up" your car. ::)
??? meltdown.
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??? meltdown.
Yes and now I'm going to be busy all day "cleaning up" my mess. ;D
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Yes and now I'm going to be busy all day "cleaning up" my mess. ;D
you can start with "cleaning up" tamali's gut.
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you can start with "cleaning up" tamali's gut.
Old material, you need to "clean up" your act.
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Old material, you need to "clean up" your act.
i thought your diet magically burned inter abdominal fat stores ? ::)
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i thought your diet magically burned inter abdominal fat stores ? ::)
Hahahaaaaaaaaa WTF is inter fat stores? ;D
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Hahahaaaaaaaaa WTF is inter fat stores? ;D
good to have disgusted back,,,,
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Hahahaaaaaaaaa WTF is inter fat stores? ;D
inter abdominal fat stores arealso known as visceral fat deposits - being the diet guru of tamali i would have thought you would be well aware of what this type of fat storage is ::)
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inter abdominal fat stores arealso known as visceral fat deposits - being the diet guru of tamali i would have thought you would be well aware of what this type of fat storage is ::)
It's intra not inter you twit. ;D
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I just dont see it TA..If I eat a hamburger and fries (not mickey d's though) for dinner and got on the scale the next day, easy 2lb increase
The weight gain is probably caused by the Sodium in the hamburgers and fries causing edema. 2 lbs of fat contains around 9,000 calories, whilst a hamburger with fries contains less than 1,000. Also, your body wouldn't be able to make 2 lbs of fat from one day to the other anyway.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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I had a two fried (battered in Rice flour adonis) chicken breasts for breakfast... ;D
what the fuck is rice flour adonis?
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:D
(http://i.imgur.com/Oaded.jpg)
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:D
(http://i.imgur.com/Oaded.jpg)
Dehydration ruling right there too many diuretics. ;D
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Dehydration ruling right there too many diuretics. ;D
:D
(http://i.imgur.com/SRoaT.jpg)
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:D
(http://i.imgur.com/SRoaT.jpg)
Yep this is the deal.
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The question that remains is:
Is a calorie just a calorie?
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Is wet pussy just wet pussy? /\ /\
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TA all of a sudden is not as vocal :D
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The question that remains is:
Is a calorie just a calorie?
I would look at more things than only overall caloric intake to asses the value of a diet. Here is what I would look for:
- Markers of bodily tissue inflammation.
- Blood lipid profile.
- Plasma glucose levels and insulin resistence
- Alkalinity/acidity of urine which indicates overall body alkalinity/acidity
Things that raise all these markers: saturated fats(inflammatory, LDL raising, increases insulin resistence), protein(composed of amino acids, which increases bodily acidity) and grains(contains inorganic acids which increases acidosis which can lead to arthrites and gout), and simple sugars(acid-forming and increases insulin resistence).
Hence a perfect diet would have little to no:
- Protein
- Saturated fats
- Grains
- Sugars
This translates into a diet that has at it's base fruits and vegetables with small amount of proteins from lean meats and nuts and seeds for both protein and monounsaturated fatty acids.
This is consensus. The only real debate is whether to include polyunsaturated fats in the diet or not. Large amounts of both omega-3 and omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids improve blood lipid profile by increasing cell membrane plasticity and decrease insulin resistence, but on the other hand they significantly increases oxidative stress which might cause damage to the DNA and increase the risk of cancer. For instance, supplementing with fish oil increases your risk of prostate and stomach cancer. My opinion on this: if you have either artherosclerosis or diabetes, then you should supplement with fish oil as the benefits outweight the risks. If you don't, then it is not worth the risk.
Now if you are talking about extreme health improvement, then yes, the only thing that matters are calories. A guy who eats only 500 calories a day from ice cream will look younger, be healthier and live longer than a guy who eats 3,000 calories a day of chicken breasts, brown rice and broccoli. Once calories drop below 1,000 calories a day, enzymes involved in DNA repair and genes involved in bodily repair are activated and cause health improvement greater than any healthy diet can.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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WHAT???? This is a joke...right? lol
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Boiling up some skinless chicken breasts as we speak..........contest on Saturday,then ice cream when it`s over.
Fuck the dumb shit!
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Boiling up some skinless chicken breasts as we speak..........contest on Saturday,then ice cream when it`s over.
Fuck the dumb shit!
x1000
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I would look at more things than only overall caloric intake to asses the value of a diet. Here is what I would look for:
- Markers of bodily tissue inflammation.
- Blood lipid profile.
- Plasma glucose levels and insulin resistence
- Alkalinity/acidity of urine which indicates overall body alkalinity/acidity
Things that raise all these markers: saturated fats(inflammatory, LDL raising, increases insulin resistence), protein(composed of amino acids, which increases bodily acidity) and grains(contains inorganic acids which increases acidosis which can lead to arthrites and gout), and simple sugars(acid-forming and increases insulin resistence).
Hence a perfect diet would have little to no:
- Protein
- Saturated fats
- Grains
- Sugars
This translates into a diet that has at it's base fruits and vegetables with small amount of proteins from lean meats and nuts and seeds for both protein and monounsaturated fatty acids.
This is consensus. The only real debate is whether to include polyunsaturated fats in the diet or not. Large amounts of both omega-3 and omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids improve blood lipid profile by increasing cell membrane plasticity and decrease insulin resistence, but on the other hand they significantly increases oxidative stress which might cause damage to the DNA and increase the risk of cancer. For instance, supplementing with fish oil increases your risk of prostate and stomach cancer. My opinion on this: if you have either artherosclerosis or diabetes, then you should supplement with fish oil as the benefits outweight the risks. If you don't, then it is not worth the risk.
Now if you are talking about extreme health improvement, then yes, the only thing that matters are calories. A guy who eats only 500 calories a day from ice cream will look younger, be healthier and live longer than a guy who eats 3,000 calories a day of chicken breasts, brown rice and broccoli. Once calories drop below 1,000 calories a day, enzymes involved in DNA repair and genes involved in bodily repair are activated and cause health improvement greater than any healthy diet can.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
I'm not sure about the exact specifics of your diet, but it has been shown for a lot of organisms that if you intentionally starve them they will live noticeably longer. It's almost like clockwork. Yeast cells for example, if starved 30% of their normal nutritional intake, live 30% longer. Same principle has also been demonstrated on a lot of mammals.
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I'm not sure about the exact specifics of your diet, but it has been shown for a lot of organisms that if you intentionally starve them they will live noticeably longer. It's almost like clockwork. Yeast cells for example, if starved 30% of their normal nutritional intake, live 30% longer. Same principle has also been demonstrated on a lot of mammals.
True that. It's called calorie restriction and it's practiced mainly by "life extensionists".
It's a rather unpleasant way to live though, not to mention you shrink down to skin and bone.
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Boiling up some skinless chicken breasts as we speak..........contest on Saturday,then ice cream when it`s over.
Fuck the dumb shit!
you're doing another one?
-
I'm not sure about the exact specifics of your diet, but it has been shown for a lot of organisms that if you intentionally starve them they will live noticeably longer. It's almost like clockwork. Yeast cells for example, if starved 30% of their normal nutritional intake, live 30% longer. Same principle has also been demonstrated on a lot of mammals.
That's what I said. Calories are not the only thing that matters when it comes to health impact between two diets with different kinds of foods, but once you drop beneath 1,000 calories a day, it doesen't matter what you eat since the effect of such a low calorie intake on activating DNA-repair enzymes and antioxidant gene activity is so strong that it compensates for whatever it is that you are eating. A guy who eats 500 calories a day of butter will live longer and be healthier than a guy who eats 3,000 calories a day of chicken breasts, brown rice and broccoli. Now the guy who eats 3,000 calories a day of the aforementioned foods will have much better health and longevity than the guy who eats 3,000 calories a day of butter. Calories are not the only thing that matter on diets above 1,000 calories a day(99% of all diets), but they are the only thing that matters when calories drop to below 1,000 calories a day.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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True that. It's called calorie restriction and it's practiced mainly by "life extensionists".
It's a rather unpleasant way to live though, not to mention you shrink down to skin and bone.
its called hormesis
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you're doing another one?
NABBA Nationals this Saturday..........last one thank God! :(
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NABBA Nationals this Saturday..........last one thank God! :(
cheers,,,good luck..
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This thread is stupid and has zero basis. Just because he turned down an argument 'these principals don't work'
::) x10
As with the previous posts. This is why I'm done chiming in. I'll just sit back, read and laugh.
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cheers,,,good luck..
Thanks my friend. :)
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As with the previous posts. This is why I'm done chiming in. I'll just sit back, read and laugh.
[/quote
u know and u do not have the time to argue with adam adnauseum for 20/30 pages ,,,cause u know he will and has the time,,,,
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As with the previous posts. This is why I'm done chiming in. I'll just sit back, read and laugh.
[/quote
u know and u do not have the time to argue with adam adnauseum for 20/30 pages ,,,cause u know he will and has the time,,,,
Not just him but some others. TA is the worst tho.
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Any Beethovens 9th Symphony up in this bish? :D
-
NABBA Nationals this Saturday..........last one thank God! :(
good luck windy
-
The question that remains is:
Is a calorie just a calorie?
Yep just as in big naturals are big naturals its all plus and minus = numbers.
-
good luck windy
Thanks sweetie!! LOL ;D
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Boiling up some skinless chicken breasts as we speak..........contest on Saturday,then ice cream when it`s over.
Fuck the dumb shit!
This is why I'll never train to compete......boiling skinless chicken breasts. May as well eat out of a Port-O-Potty.
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TA all of a sudden is not as vocal :D
Busy painting my deck as I said earlier.
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This is why I'll never train to compete......boiling skinless chicken breasts. May as well eat out of a Port-O-Potty.
It`s just chicken................s imply chicken nothing gross about it.
Pre-contest clean foods:
Chicken
Sweet Potatoes
Potatoes
Rice
Fish
Salads
Vegetables
Healthy fats/oils
Lean beef/steak
Tuna
Oatmeal
Rice Cakes
Natty PB
Sugar-Free Jelly
Turkey breast
water
crystal-lite
diet soda
coffee
tea
etc., etc.,etc.
Just plain port-o-potty fare right there..............yesir ee!! :)
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Busy painting my deck as I said earlier.
But you were replying in other threads :D
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I know this is BS but :D
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"Unless I say so"?? lol
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The primadonnas on this site amaze me.
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Wes;
Good luck at your NABBA show this Sat.
Finish your last couple days of your prep strong!
I am getting a guy ready for the NPC Eastern USA in NY on the same day!
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Wes;
Good luck at your NABBA show this Sat.
Finish your last couple days of your prep strong!
I am getting a guy ready for the NPC Eastern USA in NY on the same day!
Gottwo friends doing that show
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I know this is BS but :D
Why is this BS?
-
WHAT???? This is a joke...right? lol
Actually Sucky is right here. The only thing that has been proven to improve longevity is a severe calorie restricted diet. I'm not exactly sure why and there has been much speculation (the last time I checked which was years ago) but it did have something to do with with enzymes and DNA repair. Also, activating some "survival" gene due to the low calories. I also remember something about insulin being an aging hormone and the less you make use of it the better.
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I know this is BS but :D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=328721.0;attach=440750;image)
/end of thread
I just want to strangle myself every time I have someone or some company approach me about 'colon cleansing'.
-
Actually Sucky is right here. The only thing that has been proven to improve longevity is a severe calorie restricted diet. I'm not exactly sure why and there has been much speculation (the last time I checked which was years ago) but it did have something to do with with enzymes and DNA repair. Also, activating some "survival" gene due to the low calories. I also remember something about insulin being an aging hormone and the less you make use of it the better.
Pretty sure that the only studies on this are the lab rat kind. Interesting, tho.
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Actually Sucky is right here. The only thing that has been proven to improve longevity is a severe calorie restricted diet. I'm not exactly sure why and there has been much speculation (the last time I checked which was years ago) but it did have something to do with with enzymes and DNA repair. Also, activating some "survival" gene due to the low calories. I also remember something about insulin being an aging hormone and the less you make use of it the better.
It also has to do with less oxidation going on in the body which causes cell damage. The metabolism of food takes a lot of steps with there being a lot of cell turnover and oxidation.
-
I know this is BS but :D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=328721.0;attach=440750;image)
Wow, I googled about this and it looks like Nigella L. is indeed 51 years old. Epic genetics.
-
/end of thread
I just want to strangle myself every time I have someone or some company approach me about 'colon cleansing'.
No, not end of thread. We should cut open their insides and see who is healthier. There could be alot of factors accounting for her more aged appearance such as stress and sun damage. That is why i laugh at everyone who tells me im white as a ghost. We will see who is laughing in 30 years.
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No, not end of thread. We should cut open their insides and see who is healthier. There could be alot of factors accounting for her more aged appearance such as stress and sun damage. That is why i laugh at everyone who tells me im white as a ghost. We will see who is laughing in 30 years.
Struth. Never gave a thought/care to sun, or sun damage. What a maroon. I was lucky. Wouldn't wish it on anyone. Take care.
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Struth. Never gave a thought/care to sun, or sun damage. What a maroon. I was lucky. Wouldn't wish it on anyone. Take care.
Clearly the brunette hasn't gotten much in her life time. One thing i have begun to realize is skin care is extremely important. Call my gay but i moisturize and use spf block every day.
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Clearly the brunette hasn't gotten much in her life time. One thing i have begun to realize is skin care is extremely important. Call my gay but i moisturize and use spf block every day.
well...you are gay.
-
well...you are gay.
True.
Real men look like this.
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100810135840/fallout/images/thumb/8/86/Danny_Trejo_2009.jpg/510px-Danny_Trejo_2009.jpg)
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Actually Sucky is right here. The only thing that has been proven to improve longevity is a severe calorie restricted diet. I'm not exactly sure why and there has been much speculation (the last time I checked which was years ago) but it did have something to do with with enzymes and DNA repair. Also, activating some "survival" gene due to the low calories. I also remember something about insulin being an aging hormone and the less you make use of it the better.
First I want to apologize to suckmymuscle for being so condescending. I'm not doubting that CR could be a factor in longevity. It certainly could. Years ago I was posting studies on here about the same thing. But there are other mitigating factors to take into consideration. Quite a few studies that I have read did not take into consideration things like exercise and certain foods that could actually prolong life besides just CR. Losing muscle mass has to be taken into consideration as well. There hasn't really been any conclusion on whether CR is a definite factor in increasing life. Genetics play more of a roll than anything but besides that, there have also been studies that have shown that even if you do not reduce your calories you can replace those calories with more quality foods that will help block certain cells (cancer) and in return possibly prolong life.
There are also some studies that show CR inhibits oxydative to lipids, DNA and protein and has a role in antioxydation. But again, what is CR? What the proper amount to cut? You kinda have to make an educated guess for yourself and weigh out whats better. For me, I would keep my calories higher, protein higher and reduce carb intake and maintain muscle mass at a natural level. It simply doesn't make sense to restrict calories and run the risk of not maintaining muscle mass which is vital for having the transfer of energy (metabolism) run more efficiently. IMO, you put this along with exercise together and you just may prolong your life even further. But again, genetics is damn near everything.
With this being said, no one is right and no one is wrong.
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First I want to apologize to suckmymuscle for being so condescending. I'm not doubting that CR could be a factor in longevity. It certainly could. Years ago I was posting studies on here about the same thing. But there are other mitigating factors to take into consideration. Quite a few studies that I have read did not take into consideration things like exercise and certain foods that could actually prolong life besides just CR. Losing muscle mass has to be taken into consideration as well. There hasn't really been any conclusion on whether CR is a definite factor in increasing life. Genetics play more of a roll than anything but besides that, there have also been studies that have shown that even if you do not reduce your calories you can replace those calories with more quality foods that will help block certain cells (cancer) and in return possibly prolong life.
There are also some studies that show CR inhibits oxydative to lipids, DNA and protein and has a role in antioxydation. But again, what is CR? What the proper amount to cut? You kinda have to make an educated guess for yourself and weigh out whats better. For me, I would keep my calories higher, protein higher and reduce carb intake and maintain muscle mass at a natural level. It simply doesn't make sense to restrict calories and run the risk of not maintaining muscle mass which is vital for having the transfer of energy (metabolism) run more efficiently. IMO, you put this along with exercise together and you just may prolong your life even further. But again, genetics is damn near everything.
With this being said, no one is right and no one is wrong.
LOL! Sucky is one of the most condescending tools on this board. No need to apologize.
I am not overly concerned with longevity. People are living too damn long anyway. ;D
I'm more concerned about the quality of life at a given age. So you live to a 100 years eating celery and carrot sticks and weigh 120 lbs. Who wants to live like that? Apparently some. Me, I like my McDoubles and fries. I've always love McDonald fries and as a kid one of my greatest pleasures as a 10 year old was walking by myself the mile and a half to McDonalds, plopping my twenty cents for a bag of fries, and eating it on the walk back home. Would I give that up just so I could live to a hundred and spend an extra twenty years getting in people's way and complaining about how the currently generation is the worse ever? Nah, I'm pretty much ready to check out in the next ten years depending on how my abs hold out and if I can still snap out a decent roundhouse kick.
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LOL! Sucky is one of the most condescending tools on this board. No need to apologize.
I am not overly concerned with longevity. People are living too damn long anyway. ;D
I'm more concerned about the quality of life at a given age. So you live to a 100 years eating celery and carrot sticks and weigh 120 lbs. Who wants to live like that? Apparently some. Me, I like my McDoubles and fries. I've always love McDonald fries and as a kid one of my greatest pleasures as a 10 year old was walking by myself the mile and a half to McDonalds, plopping my twenty cents for a bag of fries, and eating it on the walk back home. Would I give that up just so I could live to a hundred and spend an extra twenty years getting in people's way and complaining about how the currently generation is the worse ever? Nah, I'm pretty much ready to check out in the next ten years depending on how my abs hold out and if I can still snap out a decent roundhouse kick.
snap out a decent roundhouse kick lol...pellius van damme,,,
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/end of thread
I just want to strangle myself every time I have someone or some company approach me about 'colon cleansing'.
I had a colonic yesterday, I'll be getting another one next week. I need more supergreens, send me some
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I had a colonic yesterday, I'll be getting another one next week. I need more supergreens, send me some
What's up with that?
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What's up with that?
it's actually very cleansing to get out backed up fecal mater. I went with my best friend who was diagnosed with MS earlier this year. So as a thank you, she booked an appt for me. I'm regular but stuff that came out :-X :-X :-X :-X but it's over an hour of something in your butt and a tad of cramping but it wasn't bad
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it's actually very cleansing to get out backed up fecal mater. I went with my best friend who was diagnosed with MS earlier this year. So as a thank you, she booked an appt for me. I'm regular but stuff that came out :-X :-X :-X :-X but it's over an hour of something in your butt and a tad of cramping but it wasn't bad
;D
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I know this is BS but :D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=328721.0;attach=440750;image)
hahaha, the southern population of the usa has some old as sin mofos, and they eat lard, fried foods, drink, etc, but have very stress free lives, and look good well into their 60s before they break, as they say.
english woman is a fox.
time for a video
:-*
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;D
I'm still greek from the waist up dr. monkey