A Cool Dorian Video

[jprc10]

This I'm afraid is where you FAIL as usual the judges would chose Dorian's physique over Ronnie and why? because of what I've been saying all along

Dorian has better balance & proportion , he's harder & drier , depending on the year he carries more muscular bulk ( and if we're talking about peak Ronnie 1999 is NOT it ) let's also factor in posing & presentation hey wait a minute that's all of the judging criteria  

Stop pretending you know how contests are judged you're the fucking idiot who claims 1994 was fixed and 2001 Ronnie dominated which contradicts facts and reality. you're the last person who knows how contests are judged you're the same dummy who asked how can Dorian win the symmetry round with a torn bicep .

I would like to see Hulkster responde to this post with a good argument and not just post two selective pictures and say "look Ronnie is better".
Anyway, he's probably just going to ignore it as usual, since he has no argument against it.

[jprc10]

Yes absolutely correct ND key words being better balance and proportion....(not who's got bigger arms and quads) its the TOTAL balance of the physique, hardness, TOTAL conditioning etc that's judged not "whos more massive"

In this case, should not have Shawn Ray beaten Dorian in 94 or 96? He might have had a better overall balance than Dorian.
Just in case, I'm just trying to be objective here and pointing out this, I'm not trying to say Shawn should have beaten Dorian.

[jprc10]

Knowledge is hard to come buy when your whole body is flooded with Ronnie's cum.

  You're right, he must be really blinded by his "love" for Ronnie that he can't be objective, at least a little.

[MORTALCOIL]

In this case, should not have Shawn Ray beaten Dorian in 94 or 96? He might have had a better overall balance than Dorian.
Just in case, I'm just trying to be objective here and pointing out this, I'm not trying to say Shawn should have beaten Dorian.

'94 could be argued but '96 no way. I don't even think he should have won '94. Shawn looked great but once you go into details, he has e faw shortcomings, other than height.

[Immortal_Technique]

Oh let's not forget what Paul said about Dorian 1995

I've seen Jesus Christ and he looks like Dorian Yates

And that quote didn't say Ronnie is the best in fact all it did was state the obvious he set new standards for size which was directly after the 2003 Mr Olympia , like Dorian did in 1993/1995

What I find funny is Paul wanted to quit after he saw Dorian and he thought he could beat Ronnie 

Your Dillet quote about Dorian is kinda weird, does being "Jesus Christ" mean you would beat 2003 Ronnie? Doesn;t really mean anything without other quotes. Also it's years before ronnie hit his peak, so it's contectually lacking.

The Dillet quote about Ronnie didn't mention size so i'm not sure why you replied that he only meant standards in terms of size.

Your final line isn't proof of any kind, when did Dillet say he could be Ronnie? Pre 98/2003 or no? Cos his more recent quote seems to contradict your quoteless assertion.

[Royal Lion]

and what do you think paul with a back would have done to your hero:

bwahahhahahahaaha:

 

dorian was nothing special from the front. and it shows time and time again.

Here's a shot of Dorian owning Dillet from the front....

[Shockwave]

Here's a shot of Dorian owning Dillet from the front....

to be fair Dorian is far closer to the camera.
Ill be the first to say Dillet dwarfs Dorian from the front.
However, Dillet couldn't pose not to mention his lack of conditioning and a back.

[Royal Lion]

to be fair Dorian is far closer to the camera.
Ill be the first to say Dillet dwarfs Dorian from the front.
However, Dillet couldn't pose not to mention his lack of conditioning and a back.

Dillet dwarfed everyone from the front...but that doesn't mean he is better.  Of course Dorian is closer in the pic I posted, but his superior proportion and balance are evident. 

[delta9mda]

ferrigno (shit do i owe him $20) dwarfed everyone. doesnt mean he is better.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Your Dillet quote about Dorian is kinda weird, does being "Jesus Christ" mean you would beat 2003 Ronnie? Doesn;t really mean anything without other quotes. Also it's years before ronnie hit his peak, so it's contectually lacking.

The Dillet quote about Ronnie didn't mention size so i'm not sure why you replied that he only meant standards in terms of size.

Your final line isn't proof of any kind, when did Dillet say he could be Ronnie? Pre 98/2003 or no? Cos his more recent quote seems to contradict your quoteless assertion.

Your Dillet quote about Dorian is kinda weird, does being "Jesus Christ" mean you would beat 2003 Ronnie? Doesn;t really mean anything without other quotes. Also it's years before ronnie hit his peak, so it's contectually lacking.

No Paul referring to him as Jesus Christ does not mean he'd  beat him in 2003 it's another example of Paul being astounded by Yates' physique

The Dillet quote about Ronnie didn't mention size so i'm not sure why you replied that he only meant standards in terms of size.

Because he's commenting on the 2003 Olympia , Ronnie's size & conditioning is exactly what he and many others have commented on by setting new standards no Mr Olympia previously was 287 pounds on stage

Your final line isn't proof of any kind, when did Dillet say he could be Ronnie? Pre 98/2003 or no? Cos his more recent quote seems to contradict your quoteless assertion.

It wasn't supposed to be ' proof ' it was supposed to show Paul honestly didn't think he could beat Dorian yet believed he could beat Ronnie ( and Ronnie believed Paul could beat him )  I believe I posted the date which was 2002? He specifically says he could win the Sandow so he's saying he could beat Ronnie

[NarcissisticDeity]

I would like to see Hulkster responde to this post with a good argument and not just post two selective pictures and say "look Ronnie is better".
Anyway, he's probably just going to ignore it as usual, since he has no argument against it.

He can't , he wont and never could.

He argued Ronnie has better conditioning in 1999 a year Ronnie specifically said wasn't his best and 1998 was because his conditioning was spot-on he dismissed Ronnie as a liar , he lies about everything

He mistakenly claimed Ronnie has better balance & proportion than Dorian , when Dorian was asked to speak on the subject he said specifically he was better balanced than Ronnie and had better conditioning and if anyone would know he would because he's an IFBB judge

I don't think he's tried Ronnie was better at posing & presentation but I wouldn't put it past his stupidity , neither is Lee Labrada at posing but it's clear Dorian has mastered the mandatory poses and can do them correctly

Hulkster has absolutely nothing he's been wrong on every single ' point ' he's made and he's pissed off because I'm the guy who rubbed his nose in the shit he's typed , which is exactly why he's in every single Dorian thread spewing the same old lines

[Hulkster]

I would like to see Hulkster responde to this post with a good argument and not just post two selective pictures and say "look Ronnie is better".
Anyway, he's probably just going to ignore it as usual, since he has no argument against it.

uh no. there have been thousands of posts by me with excellent arguments that are also BACKED UP by pictures, something that ND's arguments have never ever done.

he just posts quotes that don't even match up to reality.

oh, and if you want a more in depth discussion of dorian vs ronnie, see this short thread, the one where ND was embarassed so badly that he ran away like a pussy:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=69359.0

[Hulkster]

Hulkster, are you posting the same selective pictures again? Are you trying to judge and compare two bodybuilders based on selective pictures that were taken on different occasions and time, have different lighting, were taken at different angles and one is black & white while the other is color?
I hope you're not being serious, but that really shows your lack of knowledge.

no, they are not selective pics.

they are representative pics. good pics of both bodybuilders in similar poses under similar conditions, like I always post.

just because they tend to show ronnie is better doesn't make them wrong to use.

it just means that they are an excellent reprentation of how both looked.

the fact that dorian gets crushed is just a consequence of ronnie betting better. its that simple.

its not my fault.

but it does drive you nuthuggers crazy. as it should. your hero was not as good and it shows all the time. and you hate that.

[delta9mda]

pics schmics whatever man. have you or have you not seen either Yates or ronnie live? you really cant talk unless you have and more people here that have seen them live have said.....wait for it.....Yates.

[Hulkster]

no, most people say ronnie.

eg:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=252142.0

read and weep nuthuggers

[NarcissisticDeity]

uh no. there have been thousands of posts by me with excellent arguments that are also BACKED UP by pictures, something that ND's arguments have never ever done.

he just posts quotes that don't even match up to reality.

oh, and if you want a more in depth discussion of dorian vs ronnie, see this short thread, the one where ND was embarassed so badly that he ran away like a pussy:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=69359.0

LMMFAO excellent arguments

like this gem? Dorian is the most overrated bodybuilder of all time because he's so great 
Ronnie has more detailed calves than Dorian did 
Ronnie dominated a contest he lost the entire prejudging in 
1994 was fixed and 2001 wasn't
Ronnie in 1999 was more grainy than Dorian ever was 
1998 wasn't close but Ronnie won by only three points 
1999 is Ronnie's best showing ever but not one single expert says so 
Dorian only won because he faced smaller guys , ( Dillett , Fux , Nasser , Ian Harrison , Fancios Ferrigno ) 
Dorian was nothing more than calves and a back

This is just a small sample of ' excellent arguments ' and this is just the shit I can think of off the top of my head , I could make you look even more stupid if I did search the Truce Thread

You're stupid and everyone knows it except you .

[NarcissisticDeity]

no, they are not selective pics.

they are representative pics. good pics of both bodybuilders in similar poses under similar conditions, like I always post.

just because they tend to show ronnie is better doesn't make them wrong to use.

it just means that they are an excellent reprentation of how both looked.

the fact that dorian gets crushed is just a consequence of ronnie betting better. its that simple.

its not my fault.

but it does drive you nuthuggers crazy. as it should. your hero was not as good and it shows all the time. and you hate that.

You're selective pic ' comparisons ' are infamous you're notoriously scared of Dorian at his best which is why you carefully select Dorian pics and compare them to your PHOTOSHOPPED pics of Ronnie , ones you were busted posting by Kevin Horton who exposed your ploy


You made up quotes , you knowingly used photoshopped pics , you contradict every expert , you don't even know how contests are judged you're owned give it up , you think you can post your way out of your bullshit it's not working.

[johnny1]

In this case, should not have Shawn Ray beaten Dorian in 94 or 96? He might have had a better overall balance than Dorian.
Just in case, I'm just trying to be objective here and pointing out this, I'm not trying to say Shawn should have beaten Dorian.

Well the answer to your question is simple...no he shouldn't of beaten Dorian in 1994, the fact is or was Dorian has a superior skeletal structure than Shawn...and 99% of the others back then, (key word being skeletal structure not Genetics) Shawn was in Fantastic shape in 1994 however nothing could change the fact that his legs were quiet short in relation to the Total balance of his upper-body and all round structure, Nasser was the same, Both Lee Haney and Dorian Yates had Superior Skeletal Structures than both those BB greats, and this is what alot of people don't understand about both Haney and Yates...the mandatory poses like Front relaxed...side relaxed....turn to the rear relax...these are the FIRST impressions Judges get of the people in question...They are assessing the Skeletal structure and BALANCE of the Physique....not whos got better arms, quads, chest, then things like conditioning, muscle flow etc etc come into play.

Until people learn to assess these points on balance, and structure, and then other factors like shape,conditioning, etc come AFTER the first 2 points mentioned...well this is the reason for the non stop hes better than him posts.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Well the answer to your question is simple...no he shouldn't of beaten Dorian in 1994, the fact is or was Dorian has a superior skeletal structure than Shawn...and 99% of the others back then, (key word being skeletal structure not Genetics) Shawn was in Fantastic shape in 1994 however nothing could change the fact that his legs were quiet short in relation to the Total balance of his upper-body and all round structure, Nasser was the same, Both Lee Haney and Dorian Yates had Superior Skeletal Structures than both those BB greats, and this is what alot of people don't understand about both Haney and Yates...the mandatory poses like Front relaxed...side relaxed....turn to the rear relax...these are the FIRST impressions Judges get of the people in question...They are assessing the Skeletal structure and BALANCE of the Physique....not whos got better arms, quads, chest, then things like conditioning, muscle flow etc etc come into play.

Until people learn to assess these points on balance, and structure, and then other factors like shape,conditioning, etc come AFTER the first 2 points mentioned...well this is the reason for the non stop hes better than him posts.

Exactly everything is assessed at once ..... All rounds are physique rounds every single pose ALL of the criteria is assessed at once and the judges are instructed to give it to the guy who most satisfies ALL of the criteria

You bring up the standing relaxed from the back , judges look and directly compare each of the competitors they start from the head down and look to see who has is carrying the most muscular bulk ( Dorian 262lbs in 1994 and Shawn 205lbs ) Dorian wins this part , they check for balance & proportion or ' symmetry ' which is misleading because there when people think of symmetry they either think of left/right exactness which does NOT exist in nature noting is truly symmetrical

Another part people most often associate symmetry with is small waist , hips , joints etc and they would be correct however they often omit muscular balance & proportion , torso length , leg length , arm length , how all of these tie together , Shawn does have better ' symmetry ' than Dorian , but Dorian has better balance & proportion . Like you mentioned Shawn has short legs , high calves , long torso , Dorian has excellent balance & proportion but being an almost pure mesomorph he also has bigger joints and a naturally wider waist than someone like Shawn & Flex who have very light frames

This is what 99.9% of people cannot grasp ..symmetry is NOT I repeat NOT judged as a separate and distinct entity in the ' symmetry round ' all rounds are physique rounds and all of the criteria is assessed at once , so while Shawn has advantages in ' symmetry ' over Dorian he's also lacking clearly in balance & proportion and muscular bulk , so you can see Dorian is distancing himself when all of the criteria is applied

Conditioning is area where Shawn comes close because he was razor sharp in 1994 but I mean it's relatively easy to be hard and dry when you're 205 pounds and a whole other ball of wax when you're 262 pounds , and being dry is one thing being dry and dense while carrying the maximum amount of size is next to impossible , Shawn knows this because he tried to add some size and compete at 215 pounds and you guessed it his conditioning suffered for it

Another aspect people can't seem to comprehend is the posing rounds , many say how can Ronnie and Dorian win the posing rounds when neither are technically great posers , which all goes back to All rounds are physique rounds even in the posing rounds , the judges are assessing who is carrying more muscular bulk , who is harder & drier , who is more balanced , who is proportionate which is exactly why Dorian always won the posing rounds despite not being as technically a great poser like Lee Labrada

Posing & presentation , it's all how you act on-stage , if you're confident , if you show off your physique to it's best advantage , if you can hold and maintain mandatory poses for long periods of time without shaking and bending over breathing heavy , it's all about confidence and poise and it's all about meeting all of the judging criteria because they don't separate it in any round in any pose.

Taking all that into account anyone who thinks Shawn Ray should have beaten Dorian in 1994 is just ignorant of how contests are judged and or biased towards physiques-styles they find appealing and or marketable , but going by how contests are judged 1994 was NO contest what-so-ever and Shawn was very lucky to beat Kevin Levrone for second a feat which he managed to do by one one single point.

The above reasons is why Dorian kicked everyones ass and the exact same reasons he would beat Ronnie .


Hulkster on a side note that's how an intelligent , factual , cognizant and objective argument laid out , you should try it some time but I'm afraid stupidity prevents you from looking past your own bias and ignorance.

[Hulkster]

You're selective pic ' comparisons ' are infamous you're notoriously scared of Dorian at his best which is why you carefully select Dorian pics and compare them to your PHOTOSHOPPED pics of Ronnie , ones you were busted posting by Kevin Horton who exposed your ploy

lol this has to be the biggest single peice of bullshit ND has ever posted. and that is saying alot.

none of the pics I post are photoshopped, none of the videos are faked. I publicly proved this to Kevin and we all know what happened next: he ran. he knew he was wrong about the pics and videos that Bizzy had done. forgot about that part, didn't you Flowerboy?

and the dorian shots I post are consistent with those I post of ronnie.

eg.: both at their bests, dorian gets killed as always.

but ND can't deal with that, neither can his bitches, so they complain the pics are biased against dorian, even though they are exellent shots of him at his best (in this case, 1993).


 

[NarcissisticDeity]

lol this has to be the biggest single peice of bullshit ND has ever posted. and that is saying alot.

none of the pics I post are photoshopped, none of the videos are faked. I publicly proved this to Kevin and we all know what happened next: he ran. he knew he was wrong about the pics and videos that Bizzy had done. forgot about that part, didn't you Flowerboy?

and the dorian shots I post are consistent with those I post of ronnie.

eg.: both at their bests, dorian gets killed as always.

but ND can't deal with that, neither can his bitches, so they complain the pics are biased against dorian, even though they are exellent shots of him at his best (in this case, 1993).


 

meltdown

You're a liar and you knowingly posted photoshopped pics and made up quotes.

[NeoSeminole]

pics schmics whatever man. have you or have you not seen either Yates or ronnie live? you really cant talk unless you have and more people here that have seen them live have said.....wait for it.....Yates.

lmao, it's so easy owning you nuthuggers.

Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder

"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."

Team Flex - http://www.flexonline.com/training/49

"We've said before that the 245 pounds or so physique with which [Ronnie Coleman] won the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic is the best ever - unbeatable."

Lonnie Teper - MD, December 2005

"I've always said that it's too hard to compare athletes of different eras (then he names a few Mr. Olympias including Dorian). Still, it's hard to imagine that anybody who's ever stepped on a bodybuilding stage could have beaten Coleman. So I reserve the right to change my mind on this one. No offense to the rest of the champs - you were/are all truly amazing physique athletes - but Coleman has really taken it to the next level, as all magnificent conquerors do."

Tony Doherty - Heavy Muscle Radio (03-16-09)

"Ronnie is the best ever. No one even comes close."

Tony Doherty - http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=270388.msg3803035#msg3803035

"Absolutely no question. The best ever, I have seen them and worked with them all. Seeing Ronnie in 2003 was like looking into the future!"

Raymond Cassar - Muscletime Editor and Photographer

"There is no one alive that can beat Ronnie Coleman when he is at his best - No One! (and his best for me was when he won the 2001 Arnold Classic)"

http://www.muscletime.com/news/contest-results/2007-mr-olympia-analysis

Steve Blechman - MD, Febrary 2004

"Ronnie perseveres and proves continually that, at his best, he is unbeatable."

Greg Merritt - Flex, July 2007 p. 212

"Coleman is only two years older than the new Mr. O (hypothetical article saying if Toney Freeman won), but time stops for no man, including the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived."

Greg Meritt – http://www.metroflexgymtraining.com/testimonials.html

“From the greatest bodybuilder of all-time, Ronnie Coleman, to gregarious owner Brian Dobson to the kid who joined yesterday, everyone is trying to push themselves further than ever before, and it’s the energy of this shared commitment that makes Metroflex great.”

Chris Lund (Paraphrased by Milos Sarcev) - European Flex, April 2004

"Chris Lund who I consider to be a great expert in our sport of bodybuilding, told me that Ronnie is simply the best bodybuilder he has ever seen, or photographed, and he has seen everybody, during the last 35 years."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=237938.0

Hollis Liebman - Former Fitness Editor and IFBB Official

"The era of the big man would commence with Lee Haney (1984-1991), whose formidable torso would dominate the lineup for 8 straight years and was then elevated by Dorian Yates (1992-1997), whose back and overall conditioning upped the ante yet again until an alien named Ronnie Coleman (1998-2005), in all likelihood the greatest bodybuilder of all time, would redefine the sport bringing a near 300 pound contest ready physique to the stage."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238675.0

Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004

"I'll go on record as saying Ronnie is truly the biggest, hardest, most shredded Mr. Olympia in history. No disrespect to anybody at all, but I'd to identify Ronnie Coleman as the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time."

Paul Dillet - MD, February 2004

"Understand that if Ronnie walked away tomorrow, I do not think anyone can measure up to the standards he has set. Just like Sergio Oliva, an awesome bodybuilder way ahead of his time, and like Flex Wheeler, who had an absolutely perfect, beautiful physique. No one will match Serigo or Flex and now Ronnie."

Mike Matarazzo – Flex, January 1999

“I think this creature from another planet, Ronnie Coleman, is going to be number one for a while. I think that, in the shape he was in, he would have beaten Dorian Yates. Ronnie has every single attribute it takes to be the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived.”

Jean Pierre Fux - Personal Website

"The current Mr. Olympia (Ronnie Coleman). In top shape, probably the best physique that ever stepped on stage."

Branch Warren – Flex, October 2006

“I have a lot of respect for Ronnie. He’s probably the greatest bodybuilder there’s ever been.”

John Hansen, 2x Mr. Natural Universe and Mr. Natural Olympia - Personal Website

"It would be safe to say that [Ronnie Coleman] presented a physique that has never been seen by the bodybuilding world ever before. Competing at an incredibly massive 287 pounds, Ronnie destroyed the competition with a physique that could not possibly be equaled."

Ryan Mackie - A Fan Perspective: My 2003 Olympia Experience (Hosted on Bodybuilding.com)

"Everyone could see that at 287 pounds this was Ronnie's night and that he was back on top of his game and furthermore bodybuilding had just seen the bar of excellence raised even further. Just like Dorian Yates did in 1993 when he set a new standard, Ronnie has now taken it even further leaving all his competitors wonder what they have to do to now catch Ronnie Coleman, let alone beat him."

[Immortal_Technique]

No Paul referring to him as Jesus Christ does not mean he'd  beat him in 2003 it's another example of Paul being astounded by Yates' physique

Because he's commenting on the 2003 Olympia , Ronnie's size & conditioning is exactly what he and many others have commented on by setting new standards no Mr Olympia previously was 287 pounds on stage

It wasn't supposed to be ' proof ' it was supposed to show Paul honestly didn't think he could beat Dorian yet believed he could beat Ronnie ( and Ronnie believed Paul could beat him )  I believe I posted the date which was 2002? He specifically says he could win the Sandow so he's saying he could beat Ronnie

Okay fair enough, but now you've added conditioning to the things we reckon Dillet was speaking about on Ronnie doesn't that kinda mean that Dillet basically said Ronnie set a new standard in conditioning as well as size? Cos wouldn't that kinda mean he surpassed Yates, since we've ascertained in past posts that Ronnie has Dorian on aesthetics?! I don't even necessarily agree Ronnie had better conditioning, just sort of curious as to why you brought that up.

I think after 2002 a lot of people though Ronnie was very beatable. I guess Gunter proved them right. People stopped saying it after 2003.

[NeoSeminole]

Immortal_Technique, you're wasting your time trying to reason with the idiot ND. He argues we're putting words in Ronnie's mouth when we use the quote saying the judges favor the current Mr. Olympia but then claims Paul Dillet was only talking about size in the quote about Ronnie setting new standards.

and yes, Paul used the plural form "standards" but let ND think Paul was only referring to size.

[johnny1]

Exactly everything is assessed at once ..... All rounds are physique rounds every single pose ALL of the criteria is assessed at once and the judges are instructed to give it to the guy who most satisfies ALL of the criteria

You bring up the standing relaxed from the back , judges look and directly compare each of the competitors they start from the head down and look to see who has is carrying the most muscular bulk ( Dorian 262lbs in 1994 and Shawn 205lbs ) Dorian wins this part , they check for balance & proportion or ' symmetry ' which is misleading because there when people think of symmetry they either think of left/right exactness which does NOT exist in nature noting is truly symmetrical

Another part people most often associate symmetry with is small waist , hips , joints etc and they would be correct however they often omit muscular balance & proportion , torso length , leg length , arm length , how all of these tie together , Shawn does have better ' symmetry ' than Dorian , but Dorian has better balance & proportion . Like you mentioned Shawn has short legs , high calves , long torso , Dorian has excellent balance & proportion but being an almost pure mesomorph he also has bigger joints and a naturally wider waist than someone like Shawn & Flex who have very light frames

This is what 99.9% of people cannot grasp ..symmetry is NOT I repeat NOT judged as a separate and distinct entity in the ' symmetry round ' all rounds are physique rounds and all of the criteria is assessed at once , so while Shawn has advantages in ' symmetry ' over Dorian he's also lacking clearly in balance & proportion and muscular bulk , so you can see Dorian is distancing himself when all of the criteria is applied

Conditioning is area where Shawn comes close because he was razor sharp in 1994 but I mean it's relatively easy to be hard and dry when you're 205 pounds and a whole other ball of wax when you're 262 pounds , and being dry is one thing being dry and dense while carrying the maximum amount of size is next to impossible , Shawn knows this because he tried to add some size and compete at 215 pounds and you guessed it his conditioning suffered for it

Another aspect people can't seem to comprehend is the posing rounds , many say how can Ronnie and Dorian win the posing rounds when neither are technically great posers , which all goes back to All rounds are physique rounds even in the posing rounds , the judges are assessing who is carrying more muscular bulk , who is harder & drier , who is more balanced , who is proportionate which is exactly why Dorian always won the posing rounds despite not being as technically a great poser like Lee Labrada

Posing & presentation , it's all how you act on-stage , if you're confident , if you show off your physique to it's best advantage , if you can hold and maintain mandatory poses for long periods of time without shaking and bending over breathing heavy , it's all about confidence and poise and it's all about meeting all of the judging criteria because they don't separate it in any round in any pose.

Taking all that into account anyone who thinks Shawn Ray should have beaten Dorian in 1994 is just ignorant of how contests are judged and or biased towards physiques-styles they find appealing and or marketable , but going by how contests are judged 1994 was NO contest what-so-ever and Shawn was very lucky to beat Kevin Levrone for second a feat which he managed to do by one one single point.

The above reasons is why Dorian kicked everyones ass and the exact same reasons he would beat Ronnie .


Hulkster on a side note that's how an intelligent , factual , cognizant and objective argument laid out , you should try it some time but I'm afraid stupidity prevents you from looking past your own bias and ignorance.

Great common sense points however i don,t believe a few of the others are getting it ND, you are correct about the "symmetry" round and the breakdown of actually what "symmetry" is and how its judged in BB circles.