Author Topic: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate  (Read 1395 times)

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FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« on: September 08, 2011, 11:39:51 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-perry-romney-twist-records-debate-021556685.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — When Mitt Romney and Rick Perry thumped their chests over their job-creation records as governor during the Republican presidential debate Wednesday night, they left the bad parts out.

Yes, employment has grown by more than 1 million since Perry took office in Texas. But a lot of those jobs are not well paid.

True, unemployment dropped to 4.7 percent when Romney was Massachusetts governor. But the state's employment growth was among the nation's worst.

A look at some of the claims in the debate, and how they compare with the facts:

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PERRY: "Ninety-five percent of all the jobs that we've created have been above minimum wage."

THE FACTS: To support the claim, the Perry campaign provided federal statistics for December 2010 showing only 5.3 percent of all jobs in Texas pay the minimum wage.

But those figures represent all workers, not just the new jobs, for which data are unavailable. And that does not account for low-wage jobs that may be barely above the minimum wage. According to the Texas Workforce Commission, 51 percent of all Texas workers make less than $33,000 a year. Only 30 percent make more than $50,000 a year. Nationally, Texas ranked 34th in median household income from 2007 to 2009.

About 9.5 percent of Texas hourly workers, excluding those who are paid salaries, earn the minimum wage or less, tying Mississippi for the highest percentage in the nation.

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ROMNEY: "At the end of four years, we had our unemployment rate down to 4.7 percent. That's a record I think the president would like to see. As a matter of fact, we created more jobs in Massachusetts than this president has created in the entire country."

THE FACTS: To be sure, 4.7 percent unemployment would be a welcome figure nationally. But Romney started from a much better position than President Barack Obama did. Unemployment was only 5.6 percent when Romney took office in 2003, meaning it came down by less than 1 percentage point when he left office in 2007. Obama inherited a national unemployment rate of 7.8 percent.

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PERRY: "Michael Dukakis created jobs three times faster than you did, Mitt."

ROMNEY: "Well, as a matter of fact, George Bush and his predecessor created jobs at a faster rate than you did, governor."

PERRY: "That's not correct."

ROMNEY: "Yes, that is correct."

THE FACTS: Romney was correct.

Romney accurately stated that George W. Bush — even without his predecessor — saw jobs grow at a faster rate during his 1994-2000 years as governor than Perry has during his 11 years governing Texas. Employment grew by about 1.32 million during Bush's six years in office. Employment during Perry's years has grown about 1.2 million, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

As for Perry's claim about Romney's record and that of Dukakis, he was at least in the ballpark.

Democratic Gov. Dukakis saw Massachusetts employment grow by 500,000 jobs during his two divided terms, 1975 to 1979, and 1983 to 1991, a rate of more than 41,000 jobs a year.

Romney, governor of Massachusetts from 2003 to 2007, saw employment grow from 3.23 million to 3.29 million, growth of about 60,000 jobs, or a rate of 15,000 a year. That means Dukakis' job growth rate was nearly three times Romney's.

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MICHELE BACHMANN: "Obamacare is killing jobs. We know that from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, but I know it firsthand from speaking to people. We see it this summer. There are 47 percent of African-American youth that are currently without jobs, 36 percent of Hispanic youth."

THE FACTS: The health care law that Obama pushed and Congress passed last year has long been labeled a job killer by Republicans, who often cite a Congressional Budget Office analysis to buttress their claims. But the CBO at no point said the law would result in job losses. Instead it made the more nuanced assertion that fewer people would chose to work.

"The legislation, on net, will reduce the amount of labor used in the economy by a small amount — roughly half a percent — primarily by reducing the amount of labor that workers choose to supply," the CBO said in an analysis. That's not job-killing, that's workers choosing not to work because of easier access to health care. The budget office said some people might decide to retire earlier because it would be easier to get health care, instead of waiting until they become eligible for Medicare at age 65.

The Minnesota congresswoman also states the percentages of unemployment among minority youth. But there is no evidence that the health care law is responsible for that level of unemployment. In fact, the health care law is still largely unimplemented, with some of its key provisions not taking effect until 2014.

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PERRY: On global warming, "The science is not settled on this. The idea that we would put Americans' economy at jeopardy based on scientific theory that's not settled yet, to me, is just, is nonsense. ... Find out what the science truly is before you start putting the American economy in jeopardy."

THE FACTS: The scientific consensus on climate change is about as settled as any major scientific issue can be. Perry's opinion runs counter to the view of an overwhelming majority of scientists that pollution released from the burning of fossil fuels is heating up the planet. The National Academy of Sciences, in an investigation requested by Congress, concluded last year: "Climate change is occurring, is very likely caused primarily by human activities, and poses significant risks to humans and the environment."

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BACHMANN: "It's wrong for government, whether it's state or federal government, to impose on parents what they must do to inoculate their children."

THE FACTS: She was correct that Perry supported mandatory immunization of girls to reduce future risks of cervical cancer, although the measure was blocked by Texas lawmakers and parents would have had some ability to file a conscientious objection to the requirement. Perry signed an executive order in 2007 directing his state health department to make the human papillomavirus vaccine available to "mandate the age-appropriate vaccination of all female children" before they enter sixth grade. Texas would have been the first state to require the immunizations.

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PERRY: "What I find compelling is what we've done in the state of Texas, using our ability to regulate our clean air. We cleaned up our air in the state of Texas, more than any other state in the nation during the decade." He specifically mentioned successes in reducing nitrous oxide emissions by 58 percent and ozone levels by 27 percent.

THE FACTS: Texas has reduced emissions as Perry described, but most of those reductions were required under the federal Clean Air Act. However, the Environmental Protection Agency recently rescinded the state's authority to grant some air pollution permits because the state did not comply with federal regulations. Texas, home to America's oil and gas industry, still emits more carbon dioxide — the chief greenhouse gas — than any other state in the country, according to government data. Several metropolitan areas in Texas still violate health-based limits for smog, and the county that is home to Houston is one of the biggest emitters of hazardous air pollution in the country. The Texas Legislature also passed, and Perry signed, a law that will delay enforcing stiffer clean air regulations by two years.
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Straw Man

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2011, 12:07:50 PM »
It's too bad they can't fact check them during the debate and then make the comment on the actual facts and why they lied about them.

Or, they could start the next debate with fact checking from the prior debate

that would make for some good TV

MM2K

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2011, 12:19:39 PM »
Again, as I said before, FACTCHECK had to really dig when they correct Republicans. A lot of times it seems like they are almost splitting hairs. When they fact check Democrats they are easily correcting blatant lies.
Jan. Jobs: 36,000!!

Straw Man

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2011, 12:41:02 PM »
Again, as I said before, FACTCHECK had to really dig when they correct Republicans. A lot of times it seems like they are almost splitting hairs. When they fact check Democrats they are easily correcting blatant lies.

who is the "they" you're referring to?


tonymctones

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 03:41:13 PM »
the perry fact check seems like a reach to me, they cant disprove his comments only allude to the fact that a certain % of ppl in tx make so much...

thats not a fact check, that is a opinion and kinda shows their bias if you ask me.

whats the cost of living in tx as opposed to other states?

we also dont have state income tax which means that you get to keep what? 5 to 15% more of your paycheck than states that have state income tax.

very very misleading comments from politifact

Soul Crusher

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 03:42:54 PM »
the perry fact check seems like a reach to me, they cant disprove his comments only allude to the fact that a certain % of ppl in tx make so much...

thats not a fact check, that is a opinion and kinda shows their bias if you ask me.

whats the cost of living in tx as opposed to other states?

we also dont have state income tax which means that you get to keep what? 5 to 15% more of your paycheck than states that have state income tax.

very very misleading comments from politifact

Lets see if they fact check obama tonight. 

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2011, 03:59:08 PM »
the perry fact check seems like a reach to me, they cant disprove his comments only allude to the fact that a certain % of ppl in tx make so much...

thats not a fact check, that is a opinion and kinda shows their bias if you ask me.

whats the cost of living in tx as opposed to other states?

we also dont have state income tax which means that you get to keep what? 5 to 15% more of your paycheck than states that have state income tax.

very very misleading comments from politifact

That's a nice thing about Texas. I wish northeastern states were like that. :-\
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headhuntersix

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2011, 04:00:09 PM »
Oh no...that would mean that Obama would fail 3 times in a second as opposed to his 2 times and the universe would implode.
L

tonymctones

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2011, 04:21:44 PM »
That's a nice thing about Texas. I wish northeastern states were like that. :-\
OR you can just nut up and move to Tx ;)

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2011, 04:25:24 PM »
OR you can just nut up and move to Tx ;)

No, I don't think I could, too religious for me, maybe with Austin being an exception because of U of T-Austin.
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headhuntersix

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2011, 04:29:44 PM »
I was unaware that the Texas Taliban would drag you into church. Oddly enough I may be as secular as you but churches and church people don't scare me...do what you want. Apparently everything scares you, America, God, Koreans....
L

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2011, 04:33:55 PM »
I was unaware that the Texas Taliban would drag you into church. Oddly enough I may be as secular as you but churches and church people don't scare me...do what you want. Apparently everything scares you, America, God, Koreans....

I have friends from the northeast who moved, not to Texas but another southern state and they felt pretty ostracised by not going to Church since it is a communal expectation.

I can't really say I am afraid of Koreans since I have a very good understanding of them now and there is no Korean controlling my paycheque.
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tonymctones

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2011, 04:38:17 PM »
I have friends from the northeast who moved, not to Texas but another southern state and they felt pretty ostracised by not going to Church since it is a communal expectation.

I can't really say I am afraid of Koreans since I have a very good understanding of them now and there is no Korean controlling my paycheque.
they are full of shit, never seen anybody ostricized for not going to church anywhere and that includes the extensive traveling ive done around the country not just Tx.

Tell your friend they are sensitive liberal hippies....

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2011, 04:41:36 PM »
they are full of shit, never seen anybody ostricized for not going to church anywhere and that includes the extensive traveling ive done around the country not just Tx.

Tell your friend they are sensitive liberal hippies....

Well in that case I would consider it. First they need to get rid of the federal income tax as well. ;D
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2011, 05:43:56 PM »
Lets see if they fact check obama tonight.  
you really can't help yourself can you.  What's this thread have to do with Obama?  It's not enough that every other thread on the forum is about Obama and you have all the room in the world to make any issue about Obama you want to, why do you keep attempting to change everything into an Obama thread?  Cut the shit already.  And yes, fact checking sites fact check Obama all the time ::)

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2011, 05:45:39 PM »
you really can't help yourself can you.  What's this thread have to do with Obama?  It's not enough that every other thread on the forum is about Obama and you have all the room in the world to make any issue about Obama you want to, why do you keep attempting to change everything into an Obama thread?  Cut the shit already.

Go back to bed.   

These things are bogus listed above.   Most are nitpicking at best. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2011, 06:03:31 PM »
Go back to bed.  

These things are bogus listed above.   Most are nitpicking at best.  
That's all you have to say and explain why yet you instead try to change it into a thread about Obama along with HH again...  You need to stop doing that.  Do not intentionally derail threads.  Last warning.

tonymctones

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2011, 06:08:00 PM »
why don tyou comment on the thread huggy?

you feel politifact was reaching with their perry comments?

Soul Crusher

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2011, 06:08:07 PM »
That's all you have to say and explain why yet you instead try to change it into a thread about Obama along with HH again...  You need to stop doing that.  Do not intentionally derail threads.  Last warning.

yawn.  Go back to bed.   when you treat 240 the same way maybe you will be taken seriously.  

Hugo Chavez

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2011, 06:17:31 PM »
yawn.  Go back to bed.   when you treat 240 the same way maybe you will be taken seriously.  
I don't care if I'm taken seriously.  Many here get away with bending the rules a little without the mods making a big deal.  I'm no different.  You seem to intentionally attempt to derail threads.  You do it constantly and it's a problem.  Nobody has sent me any pms telling me that 240 is intentionally derailing threads.  If you think my warning is a joke, go ahead and laugh it up.  I will the whole time I'm deleting you for 30 days.

Soul Crusher

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2011, 06:19:01 PM »
I don't care if I'm taken seriously.  Many here get away with bending the rules a little without the mods making a big deal.  I'm no different.  You seem to intentionally attempt to derail threads.  You do it constantly and it's a problem.  Nobody has sent me any pms telling me that 240 is intentinally derailing threads.  If you think my warning is a joke, go ahead and laugh it up.  I will the whole time I'm deleating you for 30 days.

again - why don't you treat 240 the same way? 

tonymctones

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2011, 06:21:07 PM »
I don't care if I'm taken seriously.  Many here get away with bending the rules a little without the mods making a big deal.  I'm no different.  You seem to intentionally attempt to derail threads.  You do it constantly and it's a problem.  Nobody has sent me any pms telling me that 240 is intentionally derailing threads.  If you think my warning is a joke, go ahead and laugh it up.  I will the whole time I'm deleting you for 30 days.
so you have ppl pming you about 3?

if you want ill start pming you about 240, so you have reason to treat him the same...

Soul Crusher

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2011, 06:22:25 PM »
so you have ppl pming you about 3?

if you want ill start pming you about 240, so you have reason to treat him the same...

Hugo refuses to hold 240 to the same standard.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2011, 06:31:01 PM »
so you have ppl pming you about 3?

if you want ill start pming you about 240, so you have reason to treat him the same...
I've only told you to do so half a fucking dozen times by now and never ever once recieved a single pm from anyone on something that 240 is doing which is a problem on the forum and ongoing breaking of the rules.  Yes people have complained about 333 derailing threads/changing the topic.  3333 keeps over and over making Obama the issue when the thread doesn't have anything to do with the thread.  All he has to do is take the issue he's thinking about and start a new thread.  As mod that's all I've asked for him but instead he just tells me to fuck off and pretty much say he'll do what he wants.  

Look, I know you are just sure I'm a hypocrite, I've passed out more warnings and enforced more bans against people leaning left here than I ever have for the right leaning. Yes, 3333 has gotten warning from me in the past and he got kinda pissed at me over it too. In fact some on the right have had the benefit of getting more warnings while people on the left have been banned after a few warnings.  

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Re: FACT CHECK: Perry, Romney twist records in debate
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2011, 06:32:56 PM »
I've only told you to do so half a fucking dozen times by now and never ever once recieved a single pm from anyone on something that 240 is doing which is a problem on the forum and ongoing breaking of the rules.  Yes people have complained about 333 derailing threads/changing the topic.  3333 keeps over and over making Obama the issue when the thread doesn't have anything to do with the thread.  All he has to do is take the issue he's thinking about and start a new thread.  As mod that's all I've asked for him but instead he just tells me to fuck off and pretty much say he'll do what he wants.  

Look, I know you are just sure I'm a hypocrite, I've passed out more warnings and enforced more bans against people leaning left here than I ever have for the right leaning.  In fact some on the right have had the benefit of getting more warnings while people on the left have been banned after a few warnings.  

333 derails topics? Look at his fucking followers. They refuse to discuss anything and seem to post on this board for no other reason than to personally insult the guy. If you're going to hold him to some perceived standard for "derailing" threads then I'd expect you to start either deleting the personal attacks or banning the useless dipshits like Garebear and Co. who bring nothing to the table whatsoever.