Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: dfresh on March 19, 2012, 04:41:03 PM
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ive got too many different answers on this question!
as some of you know im gonna be starting tren/prop up here soon, my question is....IF i happen to run into gyno issues with tren will the nolva and letro i have on hand be enough?
ive heard i need priviron/masteron, caber, aromisin, prami, even b6...and a few have said nolva or letro is fine!
so i need to know..is nolva and/or letro enough if i even need it. and yes i worry too much i know ;D
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you need to use prami, start off with small dose like .25 and work your way up, take it at night before bed too cause itll make you feel like shit all day if you take in morning.
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ive got too many different answers on this question!
as some of you know im gonna be starting tren/prop up here soon, my question is....IF i happen to run into gyno issues with tren will the nolva and letro i have on hand be enough?
ive heard i need priviron/masteron, caber, aromisin, prami, even b6...and a few have said nolva or letro is fine!
so i need to know..is nolva and/or letro enough if i even need it. and yes i worry too much i know ;D
why not just avoid tren all the way and opt for other compunds?
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(http://www.punchstock.com/xc/rbc1_13.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=EDF6F2F4F969CEBD98925F5210EA73A063D6AD065A2C2C7EB22470C6318909F4)
:D
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on 400mg weekly TrE
Selegiline (using) for the prolactin .25mg ed
your other options
Pramipexole
Dostinex (a.k.a. cabergoline, cabaser). Stay clear of liquid dispensed solution.
Bromocriptine - too harsh
And using Arimidex to keep estrogen in check .50mg eod
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Do not mix in Nolva with Tren. Nolva will worsen progesterone sides.
"Our results revealed that tamoxifen can increase progesterone receptors and decrease estrogen receptors in endometrial cancer. The effect was most pronounced in tumors with favorable clinicopathologic parameters. We conclude that tamoxifen therapy can induce progesterone receptor synthesis even in tumors with low initial progesterone receptor levels, making such tumors potentially responsive to additional hormonal therapy with progesterone."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10053103
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yes letro by lowing you estrogen will knock out prolactin sides you usually need higher estrogen levels to have them effect you but you shouldnt need it for 300-400mg of tren a week and 300 test or what ever.
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(http://www.punchstock.com/xc/rbc1_13.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=EDF6F2F4F969CEBD98925F5210EA73A063D6AD065A2C2C7EB22470C6318909F4)
:D
Should I? ;D
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Should I? ;D
:-X :D
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yes letro by lowing you estrogen will knock out prolactin sides you usually need higher estrogen levels to have them effect you but you shouldnt need it for 300-400mg of tren a week and 300 test or what ever.
^THIS^
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I'm going to milk you like a bitch boy.
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ive got too many different answers on this question!
as some of you know im gonna be starting tren/prop up here soon, my question is....IF i happen to run into gyno issues with tren will the nolva and letro i have on hand be enough?
ive heard i need priviron/masteron, caber, aromisin, prami, even b6...and a few have said nolva or letro is fine!
so i need to know..is nolva and/or letro enough if i even need it. and yes i worry too much i know ;D
Perhaps you should worry about-
1. Being lazy
2. Using EXCESSIVE doses of anabolics, without having a base or discipline
3.TRAINING
4.DIET
THEN you can worry about steriods, you....never mind ::)
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yes letro by lowing you estrogen will knock out prolactin sides you usually need higher estrogen levels to have them effect you but you shouldnt need it for 300-400mg of tren a week and 300 test or what ever.
thanks man. just makes you wonder when you hear all these different answers lol... i overthink too so that doesnt make it any better
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How bout you use the steroid board fuckwad?
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Perhaps you should worry about-
1. Being lazy
2. Using EXCESSIVE doses of anabolics, without having a base or discipline
3.TRAINING
4.DIET
THEN you can worry about steriods, you....never mind ::)
1. not lazy
2. excessive doses? since when is under a gram excessive?
3.training is fine
4. diet could be better, but who's couldnt?
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How bout you use the steroid board fuckwad?
yea yea...fuck off!
can you move this to the steroid board wes :D?
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1. not lazy
2. excessive doses? since when is under a gram excessive?
3.training is fine
4. diet could be better, but who's couldnt?
Buddy, I could slam the crap you wrote above point by point but we both know you're to lazy and not capable of facing reality so....
How about we make a deal?
I won't make nasty blasts about how you have never read a book with words, you're closet full of male leopard print panties and your build (which BTW PROVES you train like a schlep) IF YOU JUST PROMISE YOURSELF ONE THING. PLEASE.
LOOK IN THE MIRROR, THEN LOOK AGAIN AND ASK YOURSELF "AM I LAZY BASTARD WHO BARLEY TRAINS, EATS CRAP AND RELIES ON ROIDS?"
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Buddy, I could slam the crap you wrote above point by point but we both know you're to lazy and not capable of facing reality so....
How about we make a deal?
I won't make nasty blasts about how you have never read a book with words, you're closet full of male leopard print panties and your build (which BTW PROVES you train like a schlep) IF YOU JUST PROMISE YOURSELF ONE THING. PLEASE.
LOOK IN THE MIRROR, THEN LOOK AGAIN AND ASK YOURSELF "AM I LAZY BASTARD WHO BARLEY TRAINS, EATS CRAP AND RELIES ON ROIDS?"
you are something man.... if you cant answer my question please just dont waste my time
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you are something man.... if you cant answer my question please just dont waste my time
Exactly.
You know what man? I'm done trying. You won't comprehend this, but all the nasty truths that i wrote were intended to HELP YOU.
Now you have made me feel like a prick, since i now realise Ive been internet yelling at a RETARD.
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Exactly.
You know what man? I'm done trying. You won't comprehend this, but all the nasty truths that i wrote were intended to HELP YOU.
Now you have made me feel like a prick, since i now realise Ive been internet yelling at a RETARD.
bro i see you are TRYING to give constructive criticism..i guess ::)
but you're being a douche about it... you talk like im some fat, lazy slob who is taking mega doses of gear and just doing as i please like an idiot...no this is why i ask questions..what dont you get?
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bro i see you are TRYING to give constructive criticism..i guess ::)
but you're being a douche about it... you talk like im some fat, lazy slob who is taking mega doses of gear and just doing as i please like an idiot...no this is why i ask questions..what dont you get?
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
I THINK ALL OF THAT..... ACCEPT YOU BEING FAT....... THAT IS INCORRECT.
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BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
I THINK ALL OF THAT..... ACCEPT YOU BEING FAT....... THAT IS INCORRECT.
why cant you just answer my question?
and how is 600-700mg excessive gear? how am i lazy, so all the dudes on here who take far more than me are lazy too i guess? how am i being an idiot when im asking lots of questions to help me come to logical conclusions?
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why cant you just answer my question?
and how is 600-700mg excessive gear? how am i lazy, so all the dudes on here who take far more than me are lazy too i guess? how am i being an idiot when im asking lots of questions to help me come to logical conclusions?
Good luck man.
I actually mean that.
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Good luck man.
I actually mean that.
im not trying to be a dick bro, just seems like you are though. so if you mean that then thank you
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*Moved due to steroid related content.
All threads posted on the G&O that contain strong elements of steroid content will be moved to the steroid board from here on out.
Arnold jr.
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*Moved due to steroid related content.
All threads posted on the G&O that contain strong elements of steroid content will be moved to the steroid board from here on out.
Arnold jr.
thanks arnold
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another question...support supps on tren, would i need any? maybe something for the kidneys or other organs?
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on 400mg weekly TrE
Selegiline (using) for the prolactin .25mg ed
your other options
Pramipexole
Dostinex (a.k.a. cabergoline, cabaser). Stay clear of liquid dispensed solution.
Bromocriptine - too harsh
And using Arimidex to keep estrogen in check .50mg eod
Where can any of this be purchased? Most of the chefs I deal with have non of this shit listed. Isn't Prami a Parkinson's drug?
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Where can any of this be purchased? Most of the chefs I deal with have non of this shit listed. Isn't Prami a Parkinson's drug?
manpower is ur guy ;)
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manpower is ur guy ;)
That's what I told him lol. Now answer my questions :D
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manpower is ur guy ;)
His accutane and exemastane are junk, but have heard good things about the other stuff he has.
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Bishes answer my questions!
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Where can any of this be purchased? Most of the chefs I deal with have non of this shit listed. Isn't Prami a Parkinson's drug?
Selegiline is also a Parkinson's drug. It's for "early-stage Parkinson's disease, depression and senile dementia."
The Arimidex, the chefs usually carry. Tabs are easy to comeby. Costly, but very effective. If you are looking to save $, then try it dispensed in a solution from a research chemical company. The others -- Prami, Dostinex, & Selegiline can also be found there.
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anyone else? :-[
and no support supps i take it, just a balanced diet i guess?
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all this prolactin dopamine agonists meds will low you growth hormone level, just use some mild antiestrogen like masteron or provirons
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so the verdict is prolactin gyno is very unlikely at 300-400mg tren a week, unless you are prone to gyno?
currently on 500mg test e and no gyno...hopefully that means im good to go!
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Prolactin gyno comes about generally by having too high of estrogen levels, so provided that that kept in check there shouldn't be an issue.
Long read and copy and paste (read this awhile back and makes sense as in most cases of having issues with tren/deca seems that the test doseage is also high as well) Some is probably a little bit outdated:
"In truth, the etiology of gynecomastia is unknown and a number of agents including estrogens, progestins, GH, IGF -1, and prolactin may be involved. However, most authorities believe that a decreased (T+DHT)/E ratio is central to the development of gyno , and that blocking the effects of estrogen, or increasing T + DHT levels, is central to ameliorating the problem.
Regarding prolactin, androgens decrease prolactin levels whereas estrogens increase prolactin. Non-aromatizing androgens have never been shown to elevate prolactin levels in humans, but testosterone has, due to its aromatization to estradiol (19). Prolactin secreting tumors, or prolactinomas, are often associated with gyno . But in these cases the prolactin is believed to induce gyno by suppressing testosterone production: “Prolactinomas that are sufficiently large to cause gynecomastia do so as a result of impairment of gonadotropin secretion and secondary hypogonadism”. (20). However, this is a moot issue in AAS users whose gonadotropin secretion is already blunted.
According to research cited in (20), prolactin may have a direct stimulatory effect on mammary tissue development, but only in the presence of high estrogen levels:
The presence of mild hyperprolactinaemia is therefore not uncommon in patients with estrogen excess. Significant primary hyperprolactinaemia, on the other hand, may directly stimulate epithelial cell proliferation in an estrogen-primed breast, causing epithelial cell proliferation and gynaecomastia.
So rather than focusing solely on lowering prolactin levels which may be elevated in users of aromatizing androgens, attacking estrogen should be the first line of action.
GH and IGF -1 are considered critical to the proliferation of mammary tissue. An excellent review of the role played by these hormones, as well as a general overview of gynecomastia can be found here:
Since elevated GH and IGF -1 are considered important to the anabolic effect of AAS, it would be impractical and counterproductive to attempt to prevent gynecomastia by blocking GH/IGF .
Progesterone acts in concert with estrogen to promote breast development, and at least part of any role played by synthetic progestins may be to stimulate IGF -1 production in the breast. But again, blocking the action of progesterone or synthetic progestins is not practical. Specific progesterone receptor antagonists like RU-486 block not only the progesterone receptor, but the androgen receptor as well, and have actually been associated with the development of gynecomastia (21). In any case, progesterone is thought to act on the breast to enhance the effects of estrogen (22) so once again, attacking estrogen is the easiest and most logical approach.
DHT gel (Andractim) or a generic knockoff might help as well. DHT is thought to act as an aromatase inhibitor (23) and perhaps compete directly with estrogen for binding at the estrogen receptor (24). DHT has been used in several case reports and controlled trials to successfully treat gynecomastia . So perhaps a viable strategy would be to combine DHT gel with tamoxifen . I would recommend tamoxifen rather than an aromatase inhibitor due to the simple fact that tamoxifen has been widely used in numerous controlled studies to succesfully treat gynecomastia, whereas the evidence to support the efficacy of aromatase inhibitors is scanty at best. "
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so the verdict is prolactin gyno is very unlikely at 300-400mg tren a week, unless you are prone to gyno?
currently on 500mg test e and no gyno...hopefully that means im good to go!
I am not so sure about this. ^^^^ Tren is A Lot different than test. Plus with test you are talking about Estro side effects and with tren you are talkinf about prolactin sides 2 completely separate side effect each that need to be controlled seperatley. I use arimidex to keep the Esto down and I take approx. 1g of test when on and .25mg MWF does the trick for me. Hold very little water at this dose. Everyone will be different but this could be a good place to start. Then I use caber from MP to keep the prolactin at bay, and that looks like this .50mg M-Th or if you still have issue try MWF ect. hope this helps.
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Thanks for the replies fellas. I'm gonna pick up some prami from MP....now I don't need to run it from the get go though right? Rather only if I start to get sides. And how would I know difference from prolactin and estro related sides?
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Thanks for the replies fellas. I'm gonna pick up some prami from MP....now I don't need to run it from the get go though right? Rather only if I start to get sides. And how would I know difference from prolactin and estro related sides?
I would pick up caber from MP first instead of prami because at least from my experience with both caber is much milder in way of side effects, and I would start it right out of the gates because if you wait for the signs to develop then it take 1-2 wks to get things back in line and that is not fun been there done that. tren is very hard on your nutz at least it was on mine I thought deca was a bitch ...dose not even hold a candle to tren. I would also take HCH the whole cycle at 500 icu's 2x's per week to keep your balls from turning into rasins.
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Thanks for the replies fellas. I'm gonna pick up some prami from MP....now I don't need to run it from the get go though right? Rather only if I start to get sides. And how would I know difference from prolactin and estro related sides?
bump
im leaning towards prami...should i start it from day one with the tren....or hold off unless needed?
and how would i know when to turn to prami...only if i would in fact start to lactate?
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help!
either prami or just gonna pick up some mast
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get prami if running tren, mast will help with estro from text but not tren, deca oils
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and dont take in morning, take at night and start low like .25mg, this stuff can make you feel shitty for a few days but just dont start off too much
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and dont take in morning, take at night and start low like .25mg, this stuff can make you feel shitty for a few days but just dont start off too much
cool thanks bro. so definitely start it from day one...ive always heard only use AS NEEDED...?
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well picked up some prami from MP
at least now i have something on hand for estrogen...nolva/letro
and for prolactin...prami
ready to get started! 8)