Author Topic: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?  (Read 43838 times)

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19094
  • loco like a fox
Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« on: January 02, 2008, 07:47:19 PM »
The Shroud of Turin (or Turin Shroud) is a linen cloth bearing the image of a man who appears to have been physically traumatized in a manner consistent with crucifixion. It is kept in the royal chapel of the Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist in Turin, Italy.

The shroud is the subject of intense debate among some scientists, people of faith, historians, and writers regarding where, when, and how the shroud and its images were created. Many believe it is the cloth that covered Jesus of Nazareth when he was placed in his tomb and that his image was recorded on its fibers at the time of his proclaimed resurrection, probably by a powerful flash of light irradiating from his body. Skeptics contend the shroud is a medieval hoax, forgery, or the result of natural processes that are not yet understood.  As of today, no scientist can explain how the image was recorded unto the shroud or what method or technology was used. And, though some skeptics have tried, nobody as of today has been able to replicate it using any method or technology.



The image on the cloth has many peculiar and closely studied characteristics, for example, it is entirely superficial, not penetrating into the cloth fibers under the surface, so that the flax and cotton fibers are not colored; the image yarn is composed of discolored fibers placed side by side with non-discolored fibers so many striations appear. Thus the cloth is not simply dyed, though many other explanations, natural and otherwise, have been suggested for the image formation.
http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/doclist.pdf

Many believers have hypothesized that the image on the shroud was produced by a side effect of the Resurrection of Jesus, purposely left intact as a rare physical aid to understanding and believing in Jesus' dual nature as man and God.  Some have asserted that the shroud collapsed through the glorified body of Jesus, pointing to certain X-ray-like impressions of the teeth and the finger bones. Others assert that radiation streaming from every point of the revivifying body struck and discolored every opposite point of the cloth, forming the complete image through a kind of supernatural pointillism using inverted shades of blue-gray rather than primary colors.

From http://www.shroud2000.com/FastFacts.html :

1353: The Shroud's fully documented history began in Western Europe when it was revealed by Geoffrey DeCharney in Lirey, France.

1532: The burial linen was severely damaged by fire in Chambery, France.

1534: The Shroud was repaired by the Poor Claire Nuns who were skilled in making textile repairs. The holes from the fire were patched and the entire cloth was attached to a backing cloth for support.

1898: The Shroud was photographed for the first time by Secondo Pia. These first pictures led to the discovery that the image on the cloth is actually a negative. In other words, the image becomes positive only when the light values are reversed in a photographic negative. This discovery startled the scientific community and stimulated worldwide interest.



1975: Air Force scientists John Jackson and Eric Jumper, using a sophisticated image enhancement analyzer (VP-8) designed for the space program, discovered the Shroud image contained encoded 3-D data not found in ordinary reflected light photographs. This discovery indicated that the cloth must have wrapped a real human figure at the time the image was formed.



1978: The Shroud was on public exhibit for the first time since 1933 and was displayed for six weeks. Over 3 million people passed through the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist to view it behind bullet proof glass. At the close of the exhibition, 40 scientists comprising the Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP), mostly from the United States, analyzed the Shroud for five continuous days (122 hours) working in shifts around the clock

Tests performed in 1978 include:
Particle analysis
Chemical analysis
Blood analysis
Photo microscopy
Spectroscopy
X-ray radiography
Infra-red thermography
X-ray fluorescence spectrometry
Scanning photography from infra-red to ultra violet
And others 

1980: This same year, microscopist Walter McCrone who was not part of the Shroud Project was given several fibers to analyze. After finding iron oxide particles and a single particle of vermillion paint, he broke ranks with the Shroud scientists who had agreed to make all findings public the following year. McCrone proposed that the Shroud was a painting of red ochre paint created from iron oxide particles suspended in a thin binder solution. However McCrone's findings in no way agreed with any of the highly sophisticated tests conducted by two dozen other scientists. McCrone jumped the gun for the sake of getting his own publicity. His claims have all been dismissed.

1981: After three years analyzing the data The Shroud of Turn Research Project (STURP) made their findings public at an international conference in New London, CT. All the scientists agreed upon the following statement: "We can conclude for now that the Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist. The blood stains are composed of hemoglobin and give a positive test for serum albumin."

1988: The Shroud was carbon dated by three laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Arizona. They indcated a date range from between 1260 to 1390 making the cloth only about 700 years old. This earth shattering news seemed to contradict the conclusions of STURP which gave support to the Shroud's possible authenticity. This new data posed a great dilemma for proponents of the Shroud and further complicates an explanation for the Shroud's existence.

The Shroud cannot be explained in a medieval context because it demonstrates medical knowledge and artistic expertise unknown until centuries later. If it was not made by an artist then what is it? Was it a custom crucifixion performed to mimic that of Jesus? Knowledge of Roman crucifixion practices was totally unknown in the Middle Ages. There are dozens of reasons why a medieval date doesn't fit the evidence.

1997: Noted Israeli Botanist and a professor at Hebrew University, Avinoam Danin confirmed Dr. Alan Whanger's discovery of flower images on the Shroud. He also verified that several pollen were from plants that grow only around Jerusalem.

Sci/Tech - Plants shed light on Turin Shroud
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/411366.stm

2004: Discovery of the Shroud's double face image. Italian scientists, Giulio Fanti and Roberto Maggiolio of Padova University were able to analyze scans of the backside of the Shroud after it was removed from the backing cloth. This had never been done before. The previous backing cloth had been attached since 1534 as part of the restoration following the fire of 1532. Examining the scans revealed faint superficial images of the face and hands. The image occurs only on the top surface of the fibers, similar to the front side of the Shroud but there is no coloring of the threads in between. This enhances the mystery of image formation and makes it that much more difficult to ascribe the Shroud to the work of an artist.

2005: Thermal Chemist, Dr. Raymond Rogers, retired Fellow with the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory proves using samples from the area cut for carbon 14 dating and samples from the main body of the Shroud that the sample cut in 1988 for C-14 dating was in fact a medieval reweave confirming Marino and Benford's hypothesis presented in 2000. Rogers also determined the evidence of a madder root dye used to blend in the color of newer threads with the more yellowed threads of the original Shroud. He also found cotton in the C-14 sample but not from the main body of the Shroud indicating both cotton and flax were used in the repair. Lastly and most importantly, he found that 37% of the vanillin remained intact in the lignon from the C-14 fibers whereas the vanillin content from the main body of the Shroud had decayed to 0%, similar to the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not only does this new evidence show that the carbon dating tests were severely flawed by dating an erroneous sample, but that the evidence also shows the main body of the Shroud is much older as indicated by the lack of vanillin. This critical research is precisely the kind of micro-chemical analysis the carbon dating labs were supposed to do in 1988, prior to taking the sample according to the original protocol, but failed to follow.

The carbon dating tests of 1988 have been thoroughly and completely invalidated by good science rather than the shoddy and arrogant effort demonstrated by the carbon labs in 1988. The cloud has been lifted.

Turin shroud 'older than thought'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4210369.stm

2007: "The Fabric of Time" is released on DVD
Product Description
We live in a world where science and religion have often been on opposing sides. But is all that changing? For the first time, science and religion have come together to uncover an age-old mystery. Who was Jesus Christ? What did he actually look like? And can the story of his death and resurrection now be proven as true? Viewers around the world are in the jury box as newly found scientific discoveries are presented by scholars, scientists, and historians in an unflinching search for evidence -- nothing has been held back. Could it be that actual documentation of this amazing story is still available today? See the evidence and decide for yourself in THE FABRIC OF TIME.
http://www.amazon.com/Fabric-Time-Shroud-Turin/dp/B000MTEFNM/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1199330994&sr=8-1

What skeptics say:

"The debate over the origin and authenticity of the shroud steadily increased over the years. Many scientific investigations were carried out to get to the heart of the matter. Moreover, many scientific papers were written on the subject relating to the different theories concerning the structural make-up and image on the shroud. Most scientists took one of three prominent views; they either believed that the shroud was a "divine" creation or that the image was man made or that it was a natural phenomenon. The Shroud of Turin was without a doubt a mystery that challenged faith, science and understanding, one that rekindled man's inquisitive nature in a search for an explanation."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/5.html

"Interestingly, Barbet also noticed that some of the blood stains flowed in unusual, almost unnatural directions on the arms. However, he realized that the stains were consistent with one's arms being outstretched and than lowered, much like someone's arms who had been crucified and then let down. If the blood flow was an artist's representation, it was masterfully conceived and skillfully carried out."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/6.html

"Amazingly, no one has yet been able to successfully explain how the unique 3-D negative-like image on the shroud was constructed. In actuality that remains the biggest mystery."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/9.html



"Rogers was further quoted in the article saying, "The chemistry says it was a real shroud, the blood spots on it are real blood, and the technology that was used to make that piece of cloth was exactly what Pliny the Elder reported fort his time." Pliny the Elder was an ancient Roman scientist and author who lived between 23 and 79 AD. Based on Rogers' research and historical data, the shroud has been accurately dated to around the time of Christ. The discovery rekindled the age-old debate of whether the shroud was or was not the actual burial cloth used to wrap Jesus' body. Chances are we will never know."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/shroud_of_turin/10.html

What Loco says:

Christianity rests on Faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for our sins and rose again.  Christianity does not rest on relics.  If you already have faith in Jesus, then you do not need the shroud.  If you do not have faith, then you probably will not believe even if presented with proof that the shroud is authentic.  However, the Shroud of Turin is real, scientists have studied it, and scientists have no other explanation. 

Nobody witnessed the actual resurrection.  Jesus' followers witnessed the empty tomb, the angels at the tomb, and later the risen Jesus himself.  Since nobody witnessed the resurrection itself, could God have left us a photograph of the event itself?  Maybe so.  The evidence is there.  Is the Shroud of Turin the the cloth that covered Jesus of Nazareth or is it the greatest forgery ever made, during the middle ages, using technology unknown to us even today?  You decide.

More:

http://factsplusfacts.com/theed.htm

http://www.shroudstory.com/

http://www.shroud.com/

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0409_040409_TVJesusshroud.html

http://e-forensicmedicine.net/Washed.htm

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2008, 07:55:33 PM »
Haha...

Carbon dating has shown conclusively that the shroud is a 13th century forgery.

When three independent laboratories in three different countries arrived at this conclusion the Chuch was so pissed that they refused to allow further investigation. One of the universities was Oxford university. 

Hysterical and yet it people like you keep on believing. Funny.
I hate the State.

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19094
  • loco like a fox
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2008, 07:59:32 PM »
Haha...

Carbon dating has shown conclusively that the shroud is a 13th century forgery.

When three independent laboratories in three different countries arrived at this conclusion the Chuch was so pissed that they refused to allow further investigation. One of the universities was Oxford university. 

Hysterical.

You did not read the whole thing.  That was in 1988.  Read the latest research.

Turin shroud 'older than thought'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4210369.stm

Besides, even in the middle ages nobody had the knowledge or technology to create such a forgery.  Even skeptic scientists who believe that it is a 13th century forgery can't explain how in the world it was created, and they can't duplicate it.

The Shroud cannot be explained in a medieval context because it demonstrates medical knowledge and artistic expertise unknown until centuries later. If it was not made by an artist then what is it? Was it a custom crucifixion performed to mimic that of Jesus? Knowledge of Roman crucifixion practices was totally unknown in the Middle Ages. There are dozens of reasons why a medieval date doesn't fit the evidence.

2005: Thermal Chemist, Dr. Raymond Rogers, retired Fellow with the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory proves using samples from the area cut for carbon 14 dating and samples from the main body of the Shroud that the sample cut in 1988 for C-14 dating was in fact a medieval reweave confirming Marino and Benford's hypothesis presented in 2000. Rogers also determined the evidence of a madder root dye used to blend in the color of newer threads with the more yellowed threads of the original Shroud. He also found cotton in the C-14 sample but not from the main body of the Shroud indicating both cotton and flax were used in the repair. Lastly and most importantly, he found that 37% of the vanillin remained intact in the lignon from the C-14 fibers whereas the vanillin content from the main body of the Shroud had decayed to 0%, similar to the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not only does this new evidence show that the carbon dating tests were severely flawed by dating an erroneous sample, but that the evidence also shows the main body of the Shroud is much older as indicated by the lack of vanillin. This critical research is precisely the kind of micro-chemical analysis the carbon dating labs were supposed to do in 1988, prior to taking the sample according to the original protocol, but failed to follow.

The carbon dating tests of 1988 have been thoroughly and completely invalidated by good science rather than the shoddy and arrogant effort demonstrated by the carbon labs in 1988. The cloud has been lifted.

By the way, the Catholic Church's position on the shroud is that it is not up to the church to say whether the shroud is authentic or a forgery. That is up to the scientists and historians to determine, they say.

24KT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24455
  • Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2008, 01:20:29 AM »
Maybe they beamed the body up into the big spaceship in the sky? ???
w

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19094
  • loco like a fox
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2008, 03:53:41 AM »
Shroud Of Turin Mystery - Part #1 Of 4


Shroud Of Turin Mystery - Part #2 Of 4
&feature=related

Shroud Of Turin Mystery - Part #3 Of 4
&feature=related

Shroud Of Turin Mystery - Part #4 Of 4
&feature=related

mightymouse72

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2008, 06:56:41 AM »

What Loco says:

Christianity rests on Faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for our sins and rose again.  Christianity does not rest on relics.  If you already have faith in Jesus, then you do not need the shroud.  If you do not have faith, then you probably will not believe even if presented with proof that the shroud is authentic.  However, the Shroud of Turin is real, scientists have studied it, and scientists have no other explanation. 

Nobody witnessed the actual resurrection.  Jesus' followers witnessed the empty tomb, the angels at the tomb, and later the risen Jesus himself.  Since nobody witnessed the resurrection itself, could God have left us a photograph of the event itself?  Maybe so.  The evidence is there.  Is the Shroud of Turin the the cloth that covered Jesus of Nazareth or is it the greatest forgery ever made, during the middle ages, using technology unknown to us even today?  You decide.



I think it's interesting subject and a good form of debate but from the info i have read and the times i seen it on TV it all pointed to it not being old enough. 
Like you stated above, I don't need it to be real.
W

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2008, 07:00:35 AM »
The Shroud needs to be subjected to further carbon dating, every last bit of it.

However, let us assume that it is pinpointed to exactly 33 CE, what exactly does this prove? Nothing. It is a gross and blind assumption that a burial shroud with a human image simply must be the alleged Jesus of Nazareth; it is nothing more than wishful thinking at it's worst, desiring it to be something without the necessary evidence.
I hate the State.

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2008, 07:02:44 AM »

I think it's interesting subject and a good form of debate but from the info i have read and the times i seen it on TV it all pointed to it not being old enough. 
Like you stated above, I don't need it to be real.

Our new resident fundy as it were (or should I say old as you have been here a while).

Fight the Christian fight against the evil secularists, no?!
I hate the State.

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19094
  • loco like a fox
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2008, 07:21:03 AM »

I think it's interesting subject and a good form of debate but from the info i have read and the times i seen it on TV it all pointed to it not being old enough. 
Like you stated above, I don't need it to be real.

mightymouse72,
It dates back to the time of Jesus Christ.  What you have read and what you have seen on TV is old news.  Read my entire post above.  I have links to the latest research and the latest news.

But the amazing thing is that even if it wasn't old enough to be the cloth that wrapped the body of Jesus, scientists cannot explain how in the world the image got photographed on the cloth fibers, they can't explain the negative image, the 3D encoding, the double face image, etc.  Nobody has been able to duplicate it as of today, though many have tried.  Nobody had the knowledge or the technology to do such a forgery in the middle ages.  Even if it's a forgery, what did the 13th century artist use, an atomic laser?

Another interesting thing is that neither Catholics nor Protestants care if the shroud is ever found to be, without a doubt, a 13th century artist's forgery.  It is science that has shown so far that it is not a forgery, but a mystery.

mightymouse72

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2008, 09:39:31 AM »
mightymouse72,
It dates back to the time of Jesus Christ.  What you have read and what you have seen on TV is old news.  Read my entire post above.  I have links to the latest research and the latest news.

But the amazing thing is that even if it wasn't old enough to be the cloth that wrapped the body of Jesus, scientists cannot explain how in the world the image got photographed on the cloth fibers, they can't explain the negative image, the 3D encoding, the double face image, etc.  Nobody has been able to duplicate it as of today, though many have tried.  Nobody had the knowledge or the technology to do such a forgery in the middle ages.  Even if it's a forgery, what did the 13th century artist use, an atomic laser?

Another interesting thing is that neither Catholics nor Protestants care if the shroud is ever found to be, without a doubt, a 13th century artist's forgery.  It is science that has shown so far that it is not a forgery, but a mistery.

Okay, I see now that some of the info you posted is more recent.
I'll find the time to read into.  It's difficult being at work and finding the time though.

Thanks Loco
W

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19094
  • loco like a fox
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2008, 10:22:40 AM »
Okay, I see now that some of the info you posted is more recent.
I'll find the time to read into.  It's difficult being at work and finding the time though.

Thanks Loco

You are welcome!  If you have time, watch these YouTube videos.  They are great.  I think that they are clips from the DVD "Jesus & the Shroud of Turin" (2003), but I have seen a more recent one: "Fabric of Time: Shroud of Turin" (2007).  They are both great.  They are interviews of scientists and experts, both proponents of the shroud and skeptics too.  It includes a number of scientists from the Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP) who actually analyzed it back in 1978 and today, with technology not available 29 years ago, have updated their findings & opinions.  One thing is true, proponents and skeptics alike agree it's a mystery.

Shroud Of Turin Mystery - Part #1 Of 4


Shroud Of Turin Mystery - Part #2 Of 4
&feature=related

Shroud Of Turin Mystery - Part #3 Of 4
&feature=related

Shroud Of Turin Mystery - Part #4 Of 4
&feature=related

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2008, 10:51:43 AM »
This may amaze you...it may disgust you...it may do both!

I have created a shroud of Turin on my bed sheets.  My wife was not upset...in fact, she laughed about how much my image resembled that on the Shroud.  We saw a special on PBS about it and she pointed out that the Shroud looked like my side of the bed.  My wife washes our sheets all the time but I still burned the image through the sheets and pillow case permanently.

Colossus_500

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3993
  • Psalm 139
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2008, 11:19:15 AM »
This is amazing information, Loco.  Thanks for posting. 

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19094
  • loco like a fox
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2008, 11:20:27 AM »
This is amazing information, Loco.  Thanks for posting. 

You are welcome, Colossus_500!

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2008, 11:49:15 AM »
Why should that image be of Christ?

Weren't a lot of people crucified?

We don't know what christ looked like?  We have the anglicized image--the hippy long hair and full beard and mustache with european good looks.

To state that this dropcloth is the shroud of christ is sort of a leap of faith.

How does anyone know that that image is of Christ?

Answer:  no one knows.  That is, if knowledge as a concept means anything at all.

tu_holmes

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 15922
  • Robot
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2008, 11:53:34 AM »
Why should that image be of Christ?

Weren't a lot of people crucified?

We don't know what christ looked like?  We have the anglicized image--the hippy long hair and full beard and mustache with european good looks.

To state that this dropcloth is the shroud of christ is sort of a leap of faith.

How does anyone know that that image is of Christ?

Answer:  no one knows.  That is, if knowledge as a concept means anything at all.

Hair like sheep's wool and dark skin.

The guy was from the Middle East... of course he didn't look like a hippy.

It's crap.

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2008, 11:57:44 AM »
Hair like sheep's wool and dark skin.

The guy was from the Middle East... of course he didn't look like a hippy.

It's crap.

Exactly.  Christ likely resembled a black guy rather than a white guy.

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19094
  • loco like a fox
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2008, 12:19:03 PM »
The person on the shroud looks middle eastern.  Look at the size and shape of his nose.  You can't tell the color of his skin, so what are you talking about he look white?  Middle Eastern men don't look like black men.  They may look Hispanic or Indian, but not like black men.

From the middle ages?  Then why the nail wound on the wrist and not the palm of the hand?  In the middle ages, Jesus is depicted with nails through the palms of his hands.

"Nailing a crucifixion victim through his wrists is more historically and medically plausible. Early in the 20th century, medical experts first realized that nails driven through a man’s palms would not support a his weight even if his feet were nailed or supported. The nails would tear out. The Romans did crucify victims by driving nails through the wrist area of the forearm has been confirmed by the 1968 archaeological discovery of a crucifixion victim, named Johanan ben Ha-galgol, found near Jerusalem at Givat ha-Mivtar"

Why would we think that this is the Biblical Jesus of Nazareth?

A stab wound near the fifth rib, areas of bleeding in the feet and on the left wrist (the right wrist being covered by the left), a pattern of blood dotting the scalp, and a mass of small slashes on the front and back. the stab wound in the side is consistent with the biblical description of Jesus being speared on the cross to check if he was dead. The wound in the left wrist is the area where the Romans nailed the victims of Crucifixion by the arms, something not known in the Middle Ages as artists always depict nails through the palms of the hands.  The scalps wounds could be where the crown of thorns was placed; and the streaks of blood across the body exactly match the shape of the Roman flagrum.  The legs are not broken.  Romans normally broke the legs of crucified victims.  Crucified bodies were usually left to decay on the cross and therefore would not be preserved, or trowing in mass graves with their legs broken.  The shroud material is of high quality.  Joseph of Arimathea, a man of wealth was the man who donated his own prepared tomb for the burial of Jesus after Jesus was crucified.  It is very likely that he also donated the shroud.

The Forensic Pathology of the Images on the Man on the Shroud of Turin
http://www.shroudofturin4journalists.com/pathology.htm

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2008, 12:23:59 PM »
loco, many people were crucified.

Why is this image that of christ?

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2008, 12:26:07 PM »
The person in the shroud looks middle eastern?

By what measure?

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19094
  • loco like a fox
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2008, 12:27:36 PM »
loco, many people were crucified.

Why is this image that of christ?

Decker,
read my post above.

mightymouse72

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2008, 12:28:08 PM »
loco, many people were crucified.

Why is this image that of christ?

because of the markings/blood stains around the forehead and hand
W

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2008, 12:31:03 PM »
What of this?

"There are many objective reasons for rejecting the Shroud of Turin. For one, the image on the Shroud depicts a longhaired man. This could not possibly be the Lord Jesus Christ, according to 1 Corinthians 11, which says it is a shame for a man to have long hair.

http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/relics/shroud-of-turin/




Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2008, 12:35:30 PM »
Decker,
read my post above.
I did.  Thousands and thousands of people were crucified.  The story you provide as evidence re Joseph is interesting but probably not unique.

The nose and face look european to me.  The hair is long and straight--european again.

loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19094
  • loco like a fox
Re: Has God left us a photograph of Christ's resurrection?
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2008, 12:47:40 PM »
What of this?

"There are many objective reasons for rejecting the Shroud of Turin. For one, the image on the Shroud depicts a longhaired man. This could not possibly be the Lord Jesus Christ, according to 1 Corinthians 11, which says it is a shame for a man to have long hair.

http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/relics/shroud-of-turin/

How long is long?

Decker,
Why the nail wound on the wrist and not on the palm of the hand as depicted during the middle ages?

What technology was used to create the image on the shroud, the negative image, the 3D encoding and the double face image?