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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: ribonucleic on February 03, 2007, 10:13:12 PM
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You know your empire’s crumbling when the folks who are gearing up their empire to replace yours start blowing up satellites in space. And then they don’t bother to return your phone calls when you ring up to ask why.
You know your empire’s crumbling when those same folks are cutting deals left, right and center across Asia, Latin America and Africa, while you, your lousy terms, and your arrogant attitude are no longer welcome.
You know your empire’s crumbling when you’re spending your grandchildren’s money like a drunken sailor, and letting your soon-to-be rivals finance your little splurge (i.e., letting them own your country).
You know your empire’s crumbling when it’s considered an achievement to pretend that you’ve halved the rate at which you’re adding to the massive mountain of debt you’ve already accumulated.
You know your empire’s crumbling when you weaken your currency until it looks as anemic as a Paris runway model, and you’re still setting record trade deficits. (Hint: Because you’re not making anything anymore.)
You know your empire’s crumbling when “the little brown ones” (thank you George H.W. Bush – certainly not me – for that lovely expression) in country after country of “your backyard” blow you off and proudly elect anti-imperialist leftist governments.
You know your empire’s crumbling when you can’t topple those governments and replace them with nice puppet regimes – like in the good old days – even if you wanted to. And you badly want to.
You know your empire’s crumbling when one of their leaders comes to the United Nations and makes fun of your emperor, calling him the devil, and joking about smelling sulphur where he just stood. And though a few folks cringe, everybody laughs.
You know your empire’s crumbling when just about your entire military land force is tied up in a worse-than-useless war launched on the basis of complete fabrications, that every day is actually making you less – not more – secure from external threat.
You know your empire’s crumbling when almost half the soldiers in that war are high-paid mercenaries, and you don’t dare institute a draft.
You know your empire’s crumbling when you send soldiers into war with two weeks training and a lack of armor, and then you keep them there for three, four and five rotations.
You know your empire’s crumbling when a member of the Axis of Evil can test missiles and explode nuclear warheads, and all you can do about it is mumble some pathetic warnings about how they better not do that again or there will be consequences.
You know your empire’s crumbling when you even think that there is an Axis of Evil.
You know your empire’s crumbling when a rag-tag military hodge-podge of irregulars has you pinned down in an endless fight you can’t win, but also can’t lose.
You know your empire’s crumbling when you’re too dumb to even ban Humvees as a first step toward ending your dependency on a foreign-owned crucial resource.
You know your empire’s crumbling when you trade your prior moral leadership on human rights issues for global disgust at your torture, ‘extraordinary rendition’ (a.k.a. kidnaping for torture) and the dismantling of nine centuries worth of civil liberties progress.
You know your empire’s crumbling when you blow off international law that you once helped create, and undermine the institutions of international governance that you once helped build.
You know your empire’s crumbling when opinion polls confirm that every month you’re more and more despised throughout the world.
You know your empire’s crumbling when you can’t even pull off the hanging of a tin-pot murderous former dictator without turning him into a hero.
You know your empire’s crumbling when you’re the richest country in the world, but nearly 50 million of your people don’t have basic health care coverage.
You know your empire’s crumbling when the World Health Organization ranks your healthcare system 37th ‘best’ in the world, just above Slovenia, and just below Costa Rica. (And far below Colombia, Cyprus, Saudi Arabia and Morocco.)
You know your empire’s crumbling when instead of making it easier for citizens to obtain a higher education, you’re making it harder and more expensive.
You know your empire’s crumbling when your government gives tax breaks to industries as a reward for exporting your jobs elsewhere.
You know your empire’s crumbling when the so-called ‘opposition’ party can’t even turn that obscenity into a viable campaign theme and use it to clobber the worst emperor in your history.
You know your empire’s crumbling when your middle class has been stagnant for three decades, while the wealth of the hyper-rich continues to climb through the roof.
You know your empire’s crumbling when your reaction to that is to exacerbate the problem by enacting tax policies that massively increase further still the gap between the rich and the rest.
You know your empire’s crumbling when the predatory class has taken over your government and is stripping the country of everything not bolted down to the floor. And then it sells the floor itself, as well, to your rivals.
You know your empire’s crumbling when you’re spending tens of billions of dollars you don’t own on new nuclear warheads and space weapons that don’t work, to be used against an enemy you don’t have.
You know your empire’s crumbling when one of your cities drowns and your government does next to nothing before, during and after.
You know your empire’s crumbling when a massive environmental nightmare is looming around the corner, and your emperor not only ignores it, but claims it isn’t real while taking steps to exacerbate it.
You know your empire’s crumbling when your emperor is warned by a CIA briefer of an imminent terrorist attack of vast proportions, and responds by remaining on vacation and dismissing the briefer with the words: “All right. You've covered your ass, now.”
You know your empire’s crumbling when the same emperor drops everything to fly across the country from his vacation home in order to sign a bill intervening on the wrong side of a personal medical drama involving a single family.
You know your empire’s crumbling when gays and immigrants are used as diversionary issues to keep people from thinking about the pillaging of their country and their wallets actually taking place. And it works.
You know your empire’s crumbling when people are getting more religious and less scientific, not the other way around.
You know your empire’s crumbling when your political leaders start to be chosen by dynastic rules of succession.
And you especially know your empire’s crumbling when the most idiotic child of one of the least accomplished leaders in its history is not only crowned as the next emperor, but is even revered for a time by most of the public as a great one.
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I'm sure I won't be the only person that didn't even read 1/4 of that. ;D
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I'm sure I won't be the only person that didn't even read 1/4 of that. ;D
It excited you enough to visit this thread, did it not? ;D
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It excited you enough to visit this thread, did it not? ;D
Yes! But you had me at 'hello' :-*
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I'm sure I won't be the only person that didn't even read 1/4 of that. ;D
It's such a sad article. I don't think you can refute 10% of it. What a sad fucking day :(
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It's such a sad article. I don't think you can refute 10% of it. What a sad fucking day :(
Refuting is difficult. ???
Boasting of one's short attention span is easy! :D
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{ouch} :'(
...on a positive note... the US / Canada exchange rate is up to 1.15% :)
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True. Georgie Doubleyou is just speeding it up a little.
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I would have added:
You know your empire’s crumbling when the emperor - who used family connections to avoid combat - terminates his generals for not sharing his military "wisdom".
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one bad idiot of a prezident does not mean the empire is crumbling... ::)
still the best place in the world to live in. :)
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one bad idiot of a prezident does not mean the empire is crumbling... ::)
still the best place in the world to live in. :)
Yep, whatever you think of GWB, the US still dominates.
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Yep, whatever you think of GWB, the US still dominates.
Yes... dominates! With our steely resolve and our... <swallow> our potent missiles... !
(http://www.ichbineinauslander.com/archives/photos/strangelove.jpg)
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Yes, hysterical ::)
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You know your empire's crumbling when Katie Couric plugs a characteristically saccharine new feature on her embarrassingly underperforming news-entertainment show by saying, "We're always hearing about how bad things are in America. But there's plenty of good things happening too.. that show the fine qualities of the American people. We'd like to show them to you. ;D"
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You know your empire's crumbling when the most profitable sports league advertises itself with an "inspirational" commercial telling the fu#ked-daily underclass how proud they can be that they have two head coaches contesting the championship.
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May I ask where you reside, Ribonucleic, and your nationality?
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May I ask where you reside, Ribonucleic, and your nationality?
I'm an American - and believe it or not, as a boy, I actually felt a sense of pride about that.
I live in Salt Lake City - which helps to explain why I'm so cranky all the time. :)
Make of this what you like.
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I'm an American - and believe it or not, as a boy, I actually felt a sense of pride about that.
I live in Salt Lake City - which helps to explain why I'm so cranky all the time. :)
Make of this what you like.
Thank you for your response, you will no doubt be fleeing to Canada any day now.
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Thank you for your response, you will no doubt be fleeing to Canada any day now.
Funny you should mention that...
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An Iron Curtain is Descending
"Why are you travelling so often to Canada?" the tough U.S. border guard barked. I was on Amtrak, going from New York to Montreal, as I'd done dozen of times before over several decades. This was my first experience (summer 2006) of the increasingly standard and intrusive "U.S. Exit Interviews" on trains crossing the border. I've been hassled on every train crossing since then, most recently January 2007. The U.S. now has a combined FBI-compiled file of all arrests and charges at all government levels for millions of Americans, and this is instantly viewable by police in many jurisdictions, including border officials of the U.S. and most other countries. In some cities, local police can access this file via one's license plate. The files do NOT show the favorable disposition of arrests that did not lead to charges or of dismissals and findings of innocence. "And what's this entry stamp from Canada, with no country of departure? Was that from Cuba? You know U.S. citizens may not travel to Cuba--you could be imprisoned and fined."
This line of questioning has been part of every exit interview since. The first time, the guard took my passport and kept it for about 30 minutes. Others--Canadians and foreigners as well as U.S. citizens--were getting similar queries, but mine took much longer. "We'll let the Canadians handle this," the guard said as he handed back the passport. Moments later, across the border, I heard a Quebecois immigration agent tell her colleague, gesturing at me, "He's the one." She, too, took my passport for quite awhile. "She came back with information from my FBI file-- I have a long record of political arrests from civil rights and anti-war actions. The Canadians said the FBI file showed a conviction in 1970 for a draft-board sit-in. The agent said I would be admitted only for two weeks and could not re-enter until my file was fully investigated. She told me she understood the conviction was for a political act with which "Canada agreed at the time," but said the Canadians had an agreement with the U.S. to investigate such cases.
Two weeks after I returned from Canada, the Canadian immigration agent called me: "We have fully investigated your dossier--you have been approved and are welcome to return when you wish." Since that time, I continue to be hassled by the U.S. "exit" police, but I am always dealt with quickly and politely by the Canadians. It is clear from my experience--as well as that of U.S. Green Party and peace activists barred from entering Canada during anti-globalization demonstrations two years ago, that a million or more former peaceniks and other radicals will now see more and more attempts to keep them at home.
Most Americans are unaware of the new police state procedures of U.S. officials who seek to keep millions of Americans from traveling--including trips across the border to our North, once thought the least difficult international frontier in the world to cross. There are now regular stops an "internal" checkpoints for cars traveling toward, away from or near the border in states from Maine to Washington. This includes permanent checkpoints on interstates one hundred or more miles from the border in New York and Vermont, as well as moving patrols who stop motorists in all parts of the border states. Some have called these "whiteness checkpoints," since the border guards often pull over dark-skinned motorists and people perceived as Middle Easterners. Civil libertarians and others in the border states--including conservative farmers--have protested this dramatic departure from the assumed tradition of allowing Americans freedom of travel--certainly freedom to leave their own country. Homeland Security, which supervises the "U.S. Customs and Border Protection" squads (CBP), admits that few terrorists (some say none) have been apprehended by this dubious process, but various "sex offenders and other criminals" have been caught, and drugs and other contraband seized. This is in addition to the "exit interviews" of Americans leaving by train or bus, which are now routine.
One group, aside from dark-skinned people and Muslims, targeted by the internal checkpoints, are students and other young people. Persons under 18 cannot cross a U.S. border alone, unless they are with a guardian and have notarized letters from a parent, as well as a passport issued in their own name. Persons between 18 and 21 may be questioned about their intention to engage in behavior (sex or drinking or marijuana use) strongly penalized in the U.S., but either decriminalized or lightly punished in Canada. Up until three years ago, unaccompanied persons over 16 were seldom checked--and longer ago, even younger persons could travel alone or with a non-parental adult. Student groups, including bus tour groups, now report very close scrutiny from the U.S. Exit police. Some bus companies now refuse to take groups of students under 21 across U.S. borders because of hassles they face. Gone are the days when an 18 or over driver could skit across from Burlington to Montreal with a car-full of late-teens hoping to taste the more liberal morals up north.
The big media story about all this has been the new requirement that all U.S. air travelers returning home must now have passports, including those coming from Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean, and that citizens of those countries must also have passports when coming by air--as of Jan. 23. Similar requirements for passports at land and sea crossings will go into effect sometime after next January 1. (These measures have been strongly protested by Canada and Mexico, to little avail.) Aside from the expense of passports, which puts the usual strain on low-income people, having to have passports even to go and come from Canada or Mexico will limit a very large number of Americans from international travel, period. With the passport requirement, several huge new segments of the American population will be unable to travel abroad, even on day-trips from Detroit to Windsor, Buffalo to Niagra Falls, or Calexico to Mexicali.
One group that gets very special attention are registered sex offenders, of whom there are now just over 600,000 in the U.S. The public generally approves of all measures to limit or control this group of pariahs, never mind the fact that few of these were violent rapists, and that many are forced to register for decades or life, long after minimal offenses--including prostitution and public sex, or in some cases even urinating in public. Beyond sex offenders, though, virtually all the 5 million plus persons who are on parole or probation for state and federal felonies will be unable to keep or get passports. Another large group are the 4 million or so who are "child support delinquents." At the very least, about 2 million (mostly male, but some female) "deadbeats" meet the minimum requirement of being $5,000 or more behind in their payments, which triggers (since 1994) automatic passport cancellation or denial. Among these are at least a half million teenage fathers, mostly very low income school drop-outs, often unemployed and sometimes homeless.
All of these groups who are forbidden international travel are related to class and race discrimination. Of he 5 million on parole or probation, a far higher percentage are black or Hispanic than would be warranted by their prevalence in the overall population. By some estimates, between 13 and 20% of all black men are now in this category, and thus forbidden to hold or keep passports.
Most media attention about new U.S. travel restrictions has focused on harm to tourism and other business--with considerable protest from border communities about across border trade, and from U.S., Canadian and Mexican travel agencies. A Canadian government website dedicated to international trade, Strategis.Ca, estimates that there has already been an 8% reduction of U.S. visitors to Canada and a 7% reduction of Canadian visitors to the U.S., but that this will rise to 14% or more by the end of 2007 for visitors in both directions. Gay tourism to meccas like Montreal and Vancouver is decidedly down--some say as much as 30%. This would reflect the greater likelihood that gay men and women, like non-whites and the poor, would fall afoul of U.S. laws more frequently due to discrimination.
At the beginning of the Cold War, Winston Churchill made his famous comment about an iron curtain descending across Europe. Like many others, I experienced this iron curtain. I faced incessant exit and entry police interrogations in places like East Berlin and at the Soviet borders. In those days, such long waits to get OUT of a country, as well as to get in, were limited to the "Communist" block primarily. Thank goodness, we'd think, this could not happen in America. Now that virtually all travel barriers have fallen throughout Europe--including Eastern Europe, and with travel in and out of China or Vietnam far easier than before, it is around the U.S. that the iron curtain seems to be descending. As in the Soviet or Chinese blocks before (or more recently in Cuba), the elites could travel, but the various dissidents, deviants and ordinary folk could not. This sad fact is becoming increasingly the case for many U, S, citizens today. So far, very few liberals or libertarians have taken note of this chilling trend to limit travel for huge numbers of Americans. Unless protests against these measures grow quickly, it will be too late to stop or even slow them down. America, like Russia and China before it, will become a prison for many of its people.
http://www.counterpunch.org/pariah01302007.html
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Funny you should mention that...
-----
An Iron Curtain is Descending
"Why are you travelling so often to Canada?" the tough U.S. border guard barked. I was on Amtrak, going from New York to Montreal, as I'd done dozen of times before over several decades. This was my first experience (summer 2006) of the increasingly standard and intrusive "U.S. Exit Interviews" on trains crossing the border. I've been hassled on every train crossing since then, most recently January 2007. The U.S. now has a combined FBI-compiled file of all arrests and charges at all government levels for millions of Americans, and this is instantly viewable by police in many jurisdictions, including border officials of the U.S. and most other countries. In some cities, local police can access this file via one's license plate. The files do NOT show the favorable disposition of arrests that did not lead to charges or of dismissals and findings of innocence. "And what's this entry stamp from Canada, with no country of departure? Was that from Cuba? You know U.S. citizens may not travel to Cuba--you could be imprisoned and fined."
This line of questioning has been part of every exit interview since. The first time, the guard took my passport and kept it for about 30 minutes. Others--Canadians and foreigners as well as U.S. citizens--were getting similar queries, but mine took much longer. "We'll let the Canadians handle this," the guard said as he handed back the passport. Moments later, across the border, I heard a Quebecois immigration agent tell her colleague, gesturing at me, "He's the one." She, too, took my passport for quite awhile. "She came back with information from my FBI file-- I have a long record of political arrests from civil rights and anti-war actions. The Canadians said the FBI file showed a conviction in 1970 for a draft-board sit-in. The agent said I would be admitted only for two weeks and could not re-enter until my file was fully investigated. She told me she understood the conviction was for a political act with which "Canada agreed at the time," but said the Canadians had an agreement with the U.S. to investigate such cases.
Two weeks after I returned from Canada, the Canadian immigration agent called me: "We have fully investigated your dossier--you have been approved and are welcome to return when you wish." Since that time, I continue to be hassled by the U.S. "exit" police, but I am always dealt with quickly and politely by the Canadians. It is clear from my experience--as well as that of U.S. Green Party and peace activists barred from entering Canada during anti-globalization demonstrations two years ago, that a million or more former peaceniks and other radicals will now see more and more attempts to keep them at home.
Most Americans are unaware of the new police state procedures of U.S. officials who seek to keep millions of Americans from traveling--including trips across the border to our North, once thought the least difficult international frontier in the world to cross. There are now regular stops an "internal" checkpoints for cars traveling toward, away from or near the border in states from Maine to Washington. This includes permanent checkpoints on interstates one hundred or more miles from the border in New York and Vermont, as well as moving patrols who stop motorists in all parts of the border states. Some have called these "whiteness checkpoints," since the border guards often pull over dark-skinned motorists and people perceived as Middle Easterners. Civil libertarians and others in the border states--including conservative farmers--have protested this dramatic departure from the assumed tradition of allowing Americans freedom of travel--certainly freedom to leave their own country. Homeland Security, which supervises the "U.S. Customs and Border Protection" squads (CBP), admits that few terrorists (some say none) have been apprehended by this dubious process, but various "sex offenders and other criminals" have been caught, and drugs and other contraband seized. This is in addition to the "exit interviews" of Americans leaving by train or bus, which are now routine.
One group, aside from dark-skinned people and Muslims, targeted by the internal checkpoints, are students and other young people. Persons under 18 cannot cross a U.S. border alone, unless they are with a guardian and have notarized letters from a parent, as well as a passport issued in their own name. Persons between 18 and 21 may be questioned about their intention to engage in behavior (sex or drinking or marijuana use) strongly penalized in the U.S., but either decriminalized or lightly punished in Canada. Up until three years ago, unaccompanied persons over 16 were seldom checked--and longer ago, even younger persons could travel alone or with a non-parental adult. Student groups, including bus tour groups, now report very close scrutiny from the U.S. Exit police. Some bus companies now refuse to take groups of students under 21 across U.S. borders because of hassles they face. Gone are the days when an 18 or over driver could skit across from Burlington to Montreal with a car-full of late-teens hoping to taste the more liberal morals up north.
The big media story about all this has been the new requirement that all U.S. air travelers returning home must now have passports, including those coming from Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean, and that citizens of those countries must also have passports when coming by air--as of Jan. 23. Similar requirements for passports at land and sea crossings will go into effect sometime after next January 1. (These measures have been strongly protested by Canada and Mexico, to little avail.) Aside from the expense of passports, which puts the usual strain on low-income people, having to have passports even to go and come from Canada or Mexico will limit a very large number of Americans from international travel, period. With the passport requirement, several huge new segments of the American population will be unable to travel abroad, even on day-trips from Detroit to Windsor, Buffalo to Niagra Falls, or Calexico to Mexicali.
One group that gets very special attention are registered sex offenders, of whom there are now just over 600,000 in the U.S. The public generally approves of all measures to limit or control this group of pariahs, never mind the fact that few of these were violent rapists, and that many are forced to register for decades or life, long after minimal offenses--including prostitution and public sex, or in some cases even urinating in public. Beyond sex offenders, though, virtually all the 5 million plus persons who are on parole or probation for state and federal felonies will be unable to keep or get passports. Another large group are the 4 million or so who are "child support delinquents." At the very least, about 2 million (mostly male, but some female) "deadbeats" meet the minimum requirement of being $5,000 or more behind in their payments, which triggers (since 1994) automatic passport cancellation or denial. Among these are at least a half million teenage fathers, mostly very low income school drop-outs, often unemployed and sometimes homeless.
All of these groups who are forbidden international travel are related to class and race discrimination. Of he 5 million on parole or probation, a far higher percentage are black or Hispanic than would be warranted by their prevalence in the overall population. By some estimates, between 13 and 20% of all black men are now in this category, and thus forbidden to hold or keep passports.
Most media attention about new U.S. travel restrictions has focused on harm to tourism and other business--with considerable protest from border communities about across border trade, and from U.S., Canadian and Mexican travel agencies. A Canadian government website dedicated to international trade, Strategis.Ca, estimates that there has already been an 8% reduction of U.S. visitors to Canada and a 7% reduction of Canadian visitors to the U.S., but that this will rise to 14% or more by the end of 2007 for visitors in both directions. Gay tourism to meccas like Montreal and Vancouver is decidedly down--some say as much as 30%. This would reflect the greater likelihood that gay men and women, like non-whites and the poor, would fall afoul of U.S. laws more frequently due to discrimination.
At the beginning of the Cold War, Winston Churchill made his famous comment about an iron curtain descending across Europe. Like many others, I experienced this iron curtain. I faced incessant exit and entry police interrogations in places like East Berlin and at the Soviet borders. In those days, such long waits to get OUT of a country, as well as to get in, were limited to the "Communist" block primarily. Thank goodness, we'd think, this could not happen in America. Now that virtually all travel barriers have fallen throughout Europe--including Eastern Europe, and with travel in and out of China or Vietnam far easier than before, it is around the U.S. that the iron curtain seems to be descending. As in the Soviet or Chinese blocks before (or more recently in Cuba), the elites could travel, but the various dissidents, deviants and ordinary folk could not. This sad fact is becoming increasingly the case for many U, S, citizens today. So far, very few liberals or libertarians have taken note of this chilling trend to limit travel for huge numbers of Americans. Unless protests against these measures grow quickly, it will be too late to stop or even slow them down. America, like Russia and China before it, will become a prison for many of its people.
http://www.counterpunch.org/pariah01302007.html
Can I ask you post more of what you think, and less that others do? This is far too long for my perusal (at work), and I'd prefer to hear what you have to say, anyway.
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Yep, whatever you think of GWB, the US still dominates.
THAT is NOT the kinda answer that will make us friends...
you wont make friens by shoving dominance into others faces...
i moved to the US with my parents cause i thought it stod for something great...Freedom! of thought
i NEVEr complained or talked shit when living in pakistan..
1) cause i ws young
2) <and more importantly> i KNEW it ws a POs country and so didn't expect much
i EXPECT a LOT..more from this country..i'm proud that i get to live here and i'll be dammed if i let some dumbcunt redneck of a prez sopil it for us(me) just cause he is an idiot...
i wont live THAT story 2ice without at least speaking against it
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THAT is NOT the kinda answer that will make us friends...
you wont make friens by shoving dominance into others faces...
i moved to the US with my parents cause i thought it stod for something great...Freedom! of thought
i NEVEr complained or talked shit when living in pakistan..
1) cause i ws young
2) <and more importantly> i KNEW it ws a POs country and so didn't expect much
i EXPECT a LOT..more from this country..i'm proud that i get to live here and i'll be dammed if i let some dumbcunt redneck of a prez sopil it for us(me) just cause he is an idiot...
i wont live THAT story 2ice without at least speaking against it
Er, right, except that I'm not American - and completely disagree with your post.
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and completely disagree with your post.
EXACTLY what do you disagree with...?
do tell...
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I'm not American
Then seriously - and I'm being sincere now - what is your investment in defending the murderous farce that is the US government?
Do you understand that we're going to be the only the second collapsing empire in human history with 10,000 nuclear weapons at its disposal? And unlike the last one, ours is led by an religious fanatic with sub-normal intelligence and a lifelong chip on his shoulder.
Did I mention he believes in the Biblical End Times?
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Then seriously - and I'm being sincere now - what is your investment in defending the murderous farce that is the US government?
Do you understand that we're going to be the only the second collapsing empire in human history with 10,000 nuclear weapons at its disposal? And unlike the last one, ours is led by an religious fanatic with sub-normal intelligence and a lifelong chip on his shoulder.
Did I mention he believes in the Biblical End Times?
I'm Australian, have you not noticed their involvement in Iraq (and other locations)? Are you planning on taking on any of my facts in the 'US/Iraq Arms' thread yet?
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I'm Australian, have you not noticed their involvement in Iraq (and other locations)? Are you planning on taking on any of my facts in the 'US/Iraq Arms' thread yet?
You should be happy we're there.
Securing that oil means our way of life will continue, we can continue exporting our culture to your country for you to worship, and you won't have any Chinese substations setting up camp on your lawn.
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Let the Mighty Eagle Soar!
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You should be happy we're there.
Securing that oil means our way of life will continue, we can continue exporting our culture to your country for you to worship, and you won't have any Chinese substations setting up camp on your lawn.
That's your interpretation. As I have pointed out before, you're not exactly the most reliable source, though.
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I'm Australian, have you not noticed their involvement in Iraq (and other locations)? Are you planning on taking on any of my facts in the 'US/Iraq Arms' thread yet?
Actually, no. I'll admit that I'm not well-versed in that area.
I know that we provided military support for Hussein when we considered him useful as a drain on the Iranians - knowing full well what a monster he was. Accordingly, I consider America to have moral culpability in his subjection of the Iraqis - whether or not he bought the specific mustard gas he used on the Kurds from somewhere else.
In American law, it's a concept called "criminal facilitation".
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Actually, no. I'll admit that I'm not well-versed in that area.
I know that we provided military support for Hussein when we considered him useful as a drain on the Iranians - knowing full well what a monster he was. Accordingly, I consider America to have moral culpability in his subjection of the Iraqis - whether or not he bought the specific mustard gas he used on the Kurds from somewhere else.
In American law, it's a concept called "criminal facilitation".
Actually, you're wrong, as I've proven. Why would you make such inaccurate posts if, as you admit, you are 'not well-versed' on this particular topic? I'm putting everything you say on notice from now on, as should other board members.
Will you now apologise for your allegations and allow us to move on, or are you no better than a 'Toxicavenger!'?
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That's your interpretation. As I have pointed out before, you're not exactly the most reliable source, though.
dude, you think we're going to leave, and leave the oil behind?
you're out of your gourd! LOL
I'd love to make a wager, but I don't know what my dollar will be worth.
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Actually, you're wrong, as I've proven. Why would you make such inaccurate posts if, as you admit, you are 'not well-versed' on this particular topic? I'm putting everything you say on notice from now on, as should other board members.
Will you now apologise for your allegations and allow us to move on, or are you no better than a 'Toxicavenger!'?
If you can provide me with a reliable link that reports the mustard gas used on the Kurds was not sold by the US, I will acknowledge my mistake and accept whatever diminishment it may inflict on my credibility.
Apologize? Eat a dick. :)
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If you can provide me with a reliable link that reports the mustard gas used on the Kurds was not sold by the US, I will acknowledge my mistake and accept whatever diminishment it may inflict on my credibility.
Apologize? Eat a dick. :)
Prove something that didn't happen? Wow, you have more 240 in you then I guessed. I'm going to make it my personal goal to take you to task on every inaccuracy you write on here now. Be warned.
As for your abuse, I'll take that as your admission. Thank you for your time.
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I'm going to make it my personal goal to take you to task on every inaccuracy you write on here now. Be warned.
Looks like another job for... !
(http://www.forgets.net/med/unsorted/keyboard_warrior.jpg)
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Prove something that didn't happen?
No, prove your your contention that the mustard gas used to kill the Kurds was purchased from a country other than the United States.
And sorry: a blog published on the web site of a tabloid newspaper owned by... guy please, Rupert Murdoch doesn't count.
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Looks like another job for... !
Knowing your tendencies to write fallacies, it shouldn't need a warrior.
Just plain old BRUCE will do!
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In American law, it's a concept called "criminal facilitation".
??? What does that mean?
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Well after reading all that crap..I'd say move..more room for the rest of us. I'm not going to attack u but I'd love to know what counties u have visited. Atleast Toxic has traveled widely and knows that this one is by and large is the best. Bush will be gone in a few more years. We'll endure liberal BS for 4-8 years. All these people in Europe will like us again and u can be alll warm and fuzzy over that. Our enemies will hate us. Those that have always hated us and the world will continue to turn. My best advice would be if u don't like it move..short of that run for office.
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I'd love to know what counties u have visited.
Do childhood visits count?
England, France, Italy, Austria, Egypt, Israel, El Salvador, Australia, New Zealand, and China
As an adult: only Mexico
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Well after reading all that crap..I'd say move..more room for the rest of us. I'm not going to attack u but I'd love to know what counties u have visited. Atleast Toxic has traveled widely and knows that this one is by and large is the best. Bush will be gone in a few more years. We'll endure liberal BS for 4-8 years. All these people in Europe will like us again and u can be alll warm and fuzzy over that. Our enemies will hate us. Those that have always hated us and the world will continue to turn. My best advice would be if u don't like it move..short of that run for office.
I agree.
And I'd still like to know about the "American law" concept of "criminal facilitation."
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And I'd still like to know about the "American law" concept of "criminal facilitation."
"A person is guilty of criminal facilitation if he knowingly provides substantial assistance to a person intending to commit a felony, and that person, in fact, commits the crime contemplated, or a like or related felony, employing the assistance so provided."
You announce you want to break into Earl1972's house and steal his valuable collection of used Levrone posing trunks. [Work with me here. It's the dollar value that will make it a felony.]
I give you a copy of the key to his house.
You use that key to enter the house and steal the posing trunks.
Now of course, there is ordinarily nothing illegal about giving someone a key. But by giving you the key to Earl's house when I knew you wanted to rob it, I have criminally facilitated your act.
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"A person is guilty of criminal facilitation if he knowingly provides substantial assistance to a person intending to commit a felony, and that person, in fact, commits the crime contemplated, or a like or related felony, employing the assistance so provided."
You announce you want to break into Earl1972's house and steal his valuable collection of used Levrone posing trunks. [Work with me here. It's the dollar value that will make it a felony.]
I give you a copy of the key to his house.
You use that key to enter the house and steal the posing trunks.
Now of course, there is ordinarily nothing illegal about giving someone a key. But by giving you the key to Earl's house when I knew you wanted to rob it, I have criminally facilitated your act.
Thanks. Sounds like aiding and abetting by a different name.
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Thanks. Sounds like aiding and abetting by a different name.
not quite - but close. It's not as severe as driving him to earls' house and keeping guard. But you did facilitate this act.
You're a college professor, right Beach Bum? I know many masters programs include at least one basic law course, mine did. What is your PhD in , by the way?
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not quite - but close. It's not as severe as driving him to earls' house and keeping guard. But you did facilitate this act.
You're a college professor, right Beach Bum? I know many masters programs include at least one basic law course, mine did. What is your PhD in , by the way?
YAWN. ::)
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I know many masters programs include at least one basic law course, mine did.
Is that the same law course that taught you a person can be detained based on a law that hasn't been enacted yet? LOL. ;D
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YAWN. ::)
You will tell the board you are a college professor, but you will not admit what your PhD is in?
Smells fishy, man.
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You will tell the board you are a college professor, but you will not admit what your PhD is in?
Smells fishy, man.
YAWN.
::) ::)
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YAWN.
::) ::)
You're not really a college professor, are you?
Seriously, tell us the truth.
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You're not really a college professor, are you?
Seriously, tell us the truth.
SNORE!!!!!!
::)
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SNORE!!!!!!
::)
Did you think that lying abuot it to us would give you more credibility in arguments?
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Did you think that lying abuot it to us would give you more credibility in arguments?
Hahaha. This is killing you isn't it? What, you want my autograph? You must dream about me man. But listen. I told you I'm a married heterosexual. Go to the sex board if you're looking for a boyfriend. I'm not interested. LOL. ;D
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still the best place in the world to live in. :)
Well said, ToxicAvenger!
I am not from the United States, but I have lived there, and I do know from personal experience that it is the best place in the world to live in. And I am not the only one. I personally know of people in England, China, India, and even people from countries that don't like the US or don't like Americans, still want to come live in peace in the US. It's sad that too many Americans don't know what they have. Maybe they should come live for a while in another country so that they will learn to appreciate what they have there. The US is far from perfect and has made many mistakes, but it is still the best place in the world to live in.
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A good post, but it's still not that bad yet. Like Toxic pointed out, America is still the greatest nation in the world to live in. Of course if Bush is allowed to continue on on his course of starting unjustified wars then it'll get worse.
I'm tired of headhunter and others whining about the will of the American people. The will of people is only thing that's kept Bush from starting a third front in Iran and hopefully more pressure will prevent any hasty decision making on his part. The will of the people will keep this country from going under. :)
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The will of the people is the only 'check and balance' still in place.
congress followed bush's orders for quite a while. It was only when many people started to have questions about Iraq and 911 that people voted the Repubs out and Dems in.
Now, if you pander to everything Bush says and ignore the will of the people, you will be voted out. And suddenly, you have republicans finally standing up to Bush.
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Yeah well If u feel like u want to be a loser. The American people distanced themselves from their military in the late 70's after Vietnam. The military suffered as well as the mral of the American people until Regan was elected. I don't want to go through that again. We have to win...losing will encourage these nutbags to continue. If another major attack hits America and its WMD's.They will inter middle easterners. Things will be bad Jockey. The arabs/muslims in this country have not been vocal enough in denoucing terrorism. There is no major public figure of arab/muslim persuasion leading the fight. If a city like LA or Chicago was to be hit...who is going to be in trouble. Its in everybody's best interest to win this war.
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Yeah well If u feel like u want to be a loser. The American people distanced themselves from their military in the late 70's after Vietnam. The military suffered as well as the mral of the American people until Regan was elected. I don't want to go through that again. We have to win...losing will encourage these nutbags to continue. If another major attack hits America and its WMD's.They will inter middle easterners. Things will be bad Jockey. The arabs/muslims in this country have not been vocal enough in denoucing terrorism. There is no major public figure of arab/muslim persuasion leading the fight. If a city like LA or Chicago was to be hit...who is going to be in trouble. Its in everybody's best interest to win this war.
That's an excellent post, I wholeheartedly agree.
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Yeah well If u feel like u want to be a loser. The American people distanced themselves from their military in the late 70's after Vietnam. The military suffered as well as the mral of the American people until Regan was elected. I don't want to go through that again. We have to win...losing will encourage these nutbags to continue. If another major attack hits America and its WMD's.They will inter middle easterners. Things will be bad Jockey. The arabs/muslims in this country have not been vocal enough in denoucing terrorism. There is no major public figure of arab/muslim persuasion leading the fight. If a city like LA or Chicago was to be hit...who is going to be in trouble. Its in everybody's best interest to win this war.
Of course it is in our interest - for both resources and security.
However, lately there has been a mindset from getbiggers in the military that "we're losing because people back home don't support us and they hate the war!"
That's an excuse. Plain and simple. You do your job because that is what you are paid to do. There has been a large movement this week to paint anyone anti-war, as anti-military men.
We want you guys home from the battlefield, or out of the cities defending the borders and pipeline. But please, stop bitching about needing the opinion of others to do your job. Seriously.
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Of course it is in our interest - for both resources and security.
However, lately there has been a mindset from getbiggers in the military that "we're losing because people back home don't support us and they hate the war!"
That's an excuse. Plain and simple. You do your job because that is what you are paid to do. There has been a large movement this week to paint anyone anti-war, as anti-military men.
We want you guys home from the battlefield, or out of the cities defending the borders and pipeline. But please, stop bitching about needing the opinion of others to do your job. Seriously.
That's out of line, soldiers are people too, Rob, and they deserve our respect and admiration. Just as our police do, and our firemen do. These people put their lives on the line, damned brave if you ask me.
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we should make 2 things really clear:
1. There is plenty of support for our troops in Iraq.
2. Our problems in Iraq stem from gross incompetence from Bush and his band of merry fags.
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That's out of line, soldiers are people too, Rob, and they deserve our respect and admiration. Just as our police do, and our firemen do. These people put their lives on the line, damned brave if you ask me.
Do lawyers deserve respect?
Soldiers:
Of course they're brave. Of course they deserve respect. But when a soldier says we're losing the war because some Americans want to pull out of the cities - that's crazy. The rest of us see that Bush hasn't given resources needed to win. But they'll defend their military bosses, cause, they have to.
But look at facts. Five years in afghanistan with unlimited budget and support, and you can't break the fckers? Come on! There's *something* wrong with the picture. And kids debating here sure ain't the reason, kids...
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Do lawyers deserve respect?
Until I see one put his life on the line for his country and others, it'll have to be a lawyer by lawyer scenario.
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Until I see one put his life on the line for his country and others, it'll have to be a lawyer by lawyer scenario.
what about US soldiers who work on bases in kentucky?
They will never put their life on the line.
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what about US soldiers who work on bases in kentucky?
They will never put their life on the line.
You can't be sure of that, why are you trying to distort what I have said about our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan?
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You can't be sure of that, why are you trying to distort what I have said about our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan?
I'm trying to get you to define which positions in society demand instant respect, and which do not.
Why would you respect lawyers (who defend the constitution) on a case-by-case basis, yet respect soldiers universally (also defending the constitution)?
It's this blind labeling in society which is bullshit, and used selectively to win arguments. Labeling anyone anti-"anything" to discredit them is a bitch move.
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Until I see one put his life on the line for his country and others, it'll have to be a lawyer by lawyer scenario.
Bruce I think JAG (military lawyers) is in harm's way. They're on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Yeah well If u feel like u want to be a loser. The American people distanced themselves from their military in the late 70's after Vietnam. The military suffered as well as the mral of the American people until Regan was elected. I don't want to go through that again. We have to win...losing will encourage these nutbags to continue. If another major attack hits America and its WMD's.They will inter middle easterners. Things will be bad Jockey. The arabs/muslims in this country have not been vocal enough in denoucing terrorism. There is no major public figure of arab/muslim persuasion leading the fight. If a city like LA or Chicago was to be hit...who is going to be in trouble. Its in everybody's best interest to win this war.
So what will winning accomplish? Not like those dudes will hang up their aks and call it a day. The thing is that the war in Iraq is based entirely on lies, so how can you expect the average American to support it? Maybe if things in Iraq looked brighter, then the public would be more optimistic. But things aren't looking good. Every single day you hear of a suicide bomb or IED with an x number of dead or injured.
If our invasion of Iraq was perfectly legit, then maybe the public would support fighting it out. Maybe if Iraq had an isurgency to begin with, then maybe the public would would believe in duking it out. But this is not the case, we invaded Iraq on intelligence reports that have been proven to be complete fabrications. Our invasion of Iraq has probably increased the number of terrorists world wide because we've given them more excuses to hate us.
How can you expect the public to keep supporting a war that has made America so unpopular across the world? Staying in Iraq actually aids the insurgency and it sure as hell aids in creating more dislike for America world wide. More hate = more terrorists bred.
The approach to fighting terrorism shouldn't be invasions, but just strategic strikes on targets. Like if Clinton had killed off Bin Laden, then we wouldn't have 9/11. But no, no one kills his ass and we have 9/11, and then the government emotionally blackmails its people into supporting a bogus war.
One other thing. Please don't underestimate the people. If something like 70%+ of the public disagree with you on something, then you're probably the one who's wrong.
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dude, you think we're going to leave, and leave the oil behind?
you're out of your gourd! LOL
I'd love to make a wager, but I don't know what my dollar will be worth.
{ROTFLMAO} ;D
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The US is far from perfect and has made many mistakes, but it is still the best place in the world to live in.
Unless you factor in Canada :P in the summertime of course :-[
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/proud_wp.gif)
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Yeah well If u feel like u want to be a loser. The American people distanced themselves from their military in the late 70's after Vietnam. The military suffered as well as the mral of the American people until Regan was elected. I don't want to go through that again. We have to win...losing will encourage these nutbags to continue.
HH, the people distancing themselves from the military and morale suffering was not because you lost in Vietnam. It was because you had no place being in Vietnam to begin with. thousands of dead Americans for lies and greed is what caused the lack of morale and the people's desire to distance themselves. Unfortunately, the die is already cast for a repeat scenario. You will go through it again, whether or not you are victorius in Iraq or not.
...only 3 more days to go pookieface. :-*
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Bruce I think JAG (military lawyers) is in harm's way. They're on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Thanks for that clarification. ...had me worried there for a minute. :P
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Thanks for that clarification. ...had me worried there for a minute. :P
Nah. You're safe. Big Brother takes care of its citizens. Hey did you pay your taxes yet? ;D
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Nah. You're safe. Big Brother takes care of its citizens. Hey did you pay your taxes yet? ;D
Hey I'm Canadian remember... all I got is taxes. ;D
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HH, the people distancing themselves from the military and morale suffering was not because you lost in Vietnam. It was because you had no place being in Vietnam to begin with. thousands of dead Americans for lies and greed is what caused the lack of morale and the people's desire to distance themselves. Unfortunately, the die is already cast for a repeat scenario. You will go through it again, whether or not you are victorius in Iraq or not.
Very well said, Jag.
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You know your empire’s crumbling when a magazine can send people into space but the national space agency can't.
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/06/1443221
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You know your empire’s crumbling when a magazine can send people into space but the national space agency can't.
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/06/1443221
Nah, all that is poor finaicial mangement in the Agency which is no suprise in this govenrment recent history...nothing new.
But as far as a sign of an empire crumbling.......... we are far from it.
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I'm trying to get you to define which positions in society demand instant respect, and which do not.
Why would you respect lawyers (who defend the constitution) on a case-by-case basis, yet respect soldiers universally (also defending the constitution)?
It's this blind labeling in society which is bullshit, and used selectively to win arguments. Labeling anyone anti-"anything" to discredit them is a bitch move.
Oh okay, so will you be emailing me a list of professions so I can clarify for you? Quit playing the fool, Rob, what I've written isn't that opaque.
Here, this should help you:
I give my highest degree of respect to any individual that gives up his, or her, own safety for the benefit of others, and the greater good. This is regardless of title or remuneration.
Better now?
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Oh okay, so will you be emailing me a list of professions so I can clarify for you? Quit playing the fool, Rob, what I've written isn't that opaque.
Here, this should help you:
I give my highest degree of respect to any individual that gives up his, or her, own safety for the benefit of others, and the greater good. This is regardless of title or remuneration.
Better now?
So why are you giving 240 such a hard time? Show the man a little respect!
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*cough* *chuckle* ;D
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So why are you giving 240 such a hard time? Show the man a little respect!
No, he's a big boy, and can defend himself just fine.
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*cough* *chuckle* ;D
Isn't that what you do doing a proctology exam? Hey Beachbum, is there something up your... :-X
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/an860.gif)
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No, he's a big boy, and can defend himself just fine.
Whether or not he can defend himself is irrelevant.
By your own criteria, he's worthy of your respect, ...so show it to him.
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Oh okay, so will you be emailing me a list of professions so I can clarify for you? Quit playing the fool, Rob, what I've written isn't that opaque.
Here, this should help you:
I give my highest degree of respect to any individual that gives up his, or her, own safety for the benefit of others, and the greater good. This is regardless of title or remuneration.
Better now?
I'm all for that.
Which is why I am dropping the argument with military and the other guy. they went from debates to namecalling and "I give you freedom. I keep you safe, virgin!
I'll let them represent themselves how they choose. I respect the military too much to keep at it with a few of them like this.
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I'm all for that.
Which is why I am dropping the argument with military and the other guy. they went from debates to namecalling and "I give you freedom. I keep you safe, virgin!
I'll let them represent themselves how they choose. I respect the military too much to keep at it with a few of them like this.
Okay, good - I'm glad we can see eye-to-eye in terms of respecting such people.
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Okay, good - I'm glad we can see eye-to-eye in terms of respecting such people.
Yeah. Originally, I tried to avoid debating them altogether. Obviously I appreciate the job they're doing and I hate to debate, for the chance the "see my point" and start to self-doubt, which is dangerous.
It gets hard though, when soldiers use their position as currency in an argument, and make attacks. To attack them back is to attack our troops. yet they throw it in my face that I'm a virgin who they give freedom too, etc.
Obviously I'm an emotional guy, and I'm starting to come to terms with what the US is doing over there. I know the war might be morally wrong on some levels, but for US interests, it's probably right. But to hear people say oil has nothing to do with it, I still get irritated and respond.
Anyway, I don't plan on debating them on the war anymore. I mean it this time :)
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Isn't that what you do doing a proctology exam? Hey Beachbum, is there something up your... :-X
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/an860.gif)
Bwahahahahaha!!! ;D O.K. That was funny. ;D I've already had this debate with my mother, but I am forgoing the prostate exam. I'm almost at that age when they are "required." Butt :D I have decided that I will die a virgin. No doctor is sticking no hand up Beach Bum's big bun. Uh uh. Nope. Not gonna happen. . . . .
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Yeah. Originally, I tried to avoid debating them altogether. Obviously I appreciate the job they're doing and I hate to debate, for the chance the "see my point" and start to self-doubt, which is dangerous.
It gets hard though, when soldiers use their position as currency in an argument, and make attacks. To attack them back is to attack our troops. yet they throw it in my face that I'm a virgin who they give freedom too, etc.
Obviously I'm an emotional guy, and I'm starting to come to terms with what the US is doing over there. I know the war might be morally wrong on some levels, but for US interests, it's probably right. But to hear people say oil has nothing to do with it, I still get irritated and respond.
Anyway, I don't plan on debating them on the war anymore. I mean it this time :)
Yeah u really kept to that..bro debate the war..but Ribo started all this crap anyway. Based on recent history..if the public does not back the war..the soldiers suffer. We become isolated. It happened in Algeria, with the counter insurgency by the French in the early 60's. The damm Legion plotted to drop on Paris and take over the government. Look at Vietnam. We had destroyed the VC by 1969. Tet was launched to crush the VC and turn public opnion in the States. THe NVA knew that they would have a problem with the VC should they win and they knew that opinion on the war in the states was waivering and they could nudge it in their favor. We had them bottled up pretty good through 1973 and then we left. 2 years later Saigon fell. The same thing is happening in Iraq. We crush these guys in every major pitched battle but getting bled little by little, the pictures on the news etc. Its sends a bad mention to the guys fighting and heartens the insurgents. Further if Iran, Syria and even Al Queda said they had little hope of winnning in Iraq and were pulling out or issueing a fatwa calling for arab fighters to leave Iraq..how would we view that. We'd say we're winning.
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See HH6,
I just want the US troops out of the iraqi cities. let maliki do his job. let the police do their job.
we can guard the border and we can guard the pipeline.
i'm not wanting to leave iraq and the resources we're there for.
but i do want americans to stop dying.
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See HH6,
I just want the US troops out of the iraqi cities. let maliki do his job. let the police do their job.
we can guard the border and we can guard the pipeline.
i'm not wanting to leave iraq and the resources we're there for.
but i do want americans to stop dying.
But not Iraqis.
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But not Iraqis.
I believe that if any group is going to take risks and yes, die in action, in order to remove the crime and insurgency from Iraq... IT SHOULD BE IRAQIS!
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I believe that if any group is going to take risks and yes, die in action, in order to remove the crime and insurgency from Iraq... IT SHOULD BE IRAQIS!
How about we give them a little help getting on their feet first, okay?
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How about we give them a little help getting on their feet first, okay?
We've been there 4 years so far.
Been training their police for what, almost 2.5 years now?
how many more do you want to give them? The guys from the Police Academy movies could have secured baghdad by now.
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We've been there 4 years so far.
Been training their police for what, almost 2.5 years now?
how many more do you want to give them? The guys from the Police Academy movies could have secured baghdad by now.
Why treat the allied forces with such disdain? You do realise people are actually losing their lives while you chuckle at their apparent clumsiness?
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Why treat the allied forces with such disdain? You do realise people are actually losing their lives while you chuckle at their apparent clumsiness?
The forces are fighting very hard.
They are being cuffed by their bosses, IMO.
The situation in baghdad should have been resolved long ago.
We have to wonder why standards and expectations are so low.
Does it have anything to do with the fact that when we finally win - we lose control of the oil? ;)
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The forces are fighting very hard.
They are being cuffed by their bosses, IMO.
The situation in baghdad should have been resolved long ago.
We have to wonder why standards and expectations are so low.
Does it have anything to do with the fact that when we finally win - we lose control of the oil? ;)
There's no need to portray our forces as bumbling fools, Rob. I imagine things are far more difficult in Iraq than what you give credit for.
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There's no need to portray our forces as bumbling fools, Rob. I imagine things are far more difficult in Iraq than what you give credit for.
Dude, I was really discouraged when I saw Bush wanted 15% this year, and 15% troop incease for the next 5 years.
Does that sounds like a strategy to WIN, or to STALEMATE?
The insurgency grows too. And we're going to just keep up.
If you combine the same troop:enemy ratios, with the generals' inability to give any timeline for victory or quantifiable goals, and the only strategy they're telling us for this 7th different initiative is "more troops!"...
Well it doesn' tlook like they're trying to win the thing. Looks like they're stalling.
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Well it doesn' tlook like they're trying to win the thing. Looks like they're stalling.
Actually, it looks to me like they're doing the best they can, given the opposition a whole lot of people domestically are giving them. I disagree the 'insurgency' is growing, and I take offence to you labelling them as such. They are terrorists, nothing more, nothing less.
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Actually, it looks to me like they're doing the best they can, given the opposition a whole lot of people domestically are giving them. I disagree the 'insurgency' is growing, and I take offence to you labelling them as such. They are terrorists, nothing more, nothing less.
The US mainstream media calls them insurgency. I was using it so people here wouild follow. personally, I consider them jihadists and yes, terrorists. However, the warrning factions who wish to kill for their sunni/'shiite battle - I guess they are jihadists or religious fanatics?
I guess we can ask the soldiers here if the 'terrorist movement' is growing. They (the terrorists) have learned to take down aircraft now (4 last week I believe), and it really sucks because we lose that advantage and it becomes a ground game where we lose some of our advantage.
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The US mainstream media calls them insurgency. I was using it so people here wouild follow. personally, I consider them jihadists and yes, terrorists. However, the warrning factions who wish to kill for their sunni/'shiite battle - I guess they are jihadists or religious fanatics?
I guess we can ask the soldiers here if the 'terrorist movement' is growing. They (the terrorists) have learned to take down aircraft now (4 last week I believe), and it really sucks because we lose that advantage and it becomes a ground game where we lose some of our advantage.
That's a pretty sensible post, Rob.
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It depends on where u are. U guys think that these guys are all lumps of clay ready to be molded into uber commando's or something. I don't have experience with the Iraqi militray except the old one we kicked the shit outa. Its a cultural thing. I have watched the ANA/ANP fight. (Afghans) The Afghan SF folks are pretty good but they are usually drawn from guys who fought against the Sov's and Taliban. Most also served with our SF during the war. The ANA guys are learning but unlike shoving uniforms at the Japs or Germans and pointing them toward Russia, the cultural differences are vast. Training guys who have tribal rivalries we don't understand are almost impossible. They leave when they want..they won't serve in certain area's etc.
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They are being cuffed by their bosses, IMO.
In a previous post, you stated as a given that American forces should be able to beat anyone. I disagreed with you then - but didn't think it worth mentioning.
But this kind of statement - which I've heard many times from that gasbag Michael Reagan while driving home from work [there was nothing else on! :) ] - is not only an echo of the discreditable right-wing grumbling we've been hearing for decades since Vietnam, I think it's morally irresponsible.
Our "handcuffed" fighting has already killed tens of thousands of civilians - with the attendant rise of murderous anti-American sentiment that will make us significantly less safe for the foreseeable future. When the frustrated commanders decide "F#ck it, we're going to shoot first and (maybe) ask questions later", that dynamic will become 10 times worse.
And you know what? It still won't work. Because a lumbering technology-based army like ours can not win against a fluid native guerrilla resistance without resorting to open genocide. You might as well try to scoop up water with a sieve. There are plenty of command minds in the military who understand this. But they all resigned in frustration or were fired so they could be replaced with generals who would parrot the insane ambitions of the Supreme Leader.
Which leads me to suspect that the "let's take the gloves off" sentiment really has nothing to do with prevailing. Ultimately, it's the tantrum of a frustrated child who pulls the head off its doll when the voicebox stops working. The insurgency demonstrates every day that we are not as powerful as our national myth insists. So let's just lash out blindly at every brown face we see. That will teach them!
As Orwell told us: The point of torture is torture.
The point of indiscriminate killing is indiscriminate killing.
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obviously i don't agree with some (i-one comes to mind) that we should carpet bomb baghdad, or his assertion that the thought of killing 23 million and starting over is acceptable "is a tough choice".
the reason we're losing, imo, is the poor use of forces, or inadequate numbers. i def don't want our men doing any torture or rules violations. i just think they are being walked in circles inside a shooting gallery to stall the war outcome.
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I believe that if any group is going to take risks and yes, die in action, in order to remove the crime and insurgency from Iraq... IT SHOULD BE IRAQIS!
You don't think America bears any responsibility for having gone in there and creating the chaos to begin with?
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You don't think America bears any responsibility for having gone in there and creating the chaos to begin with?
America absolutely created the situation. But we've also given the iraqi people the chance to choose their leadership to rebuild. They chose maliki. And we've given them 2+ years of police training now. Every Iraqi should pick up a gun or a phone and get involved in their own security now.
US forces need to back out of the cities and let the Iraqi military and police do their job now. If we condone letting our men do it now, they're going to be doing it in 5, 10, 15 years.
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Pallets of US cash sent to Baghdad before handover
Wed 7 Feb 2007 1:23:56 GMT
By Jeremy Pelofsky
WASHINGTON, Feb 6 (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Reserve sent record payouts of more than $4 billion in cash to Baghdad on giant pallets aboard military planes shortly before the United States gave control back to Iraqis, lawmakers said on Tuesday.
The money, which had been held by the United States, came from Iraqi oil exports, surplus dollars from the U.N.-run oil-for-food program and frozen assets belonging to the ousted Saddam Hussein regime.
Bills weighing a total of 363 tons were loaded onto military aircraft in the largest cash shipments ever made by the Federal Reserve, said Rep. Henry Waxman, chairman of the House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.
"Who in their right mind would send 363 tons of cash into a war zone? But that's exactly what our government did," the California Democrat said during a hearing reviewing possible waste, fraud and abuse of funds in Iraq.
On Dec. 12, 2003, $1.5 billion was shipped to Iraq, initially "the largest pay out of U.S. currency in Fed history," according to an e-mail cited by committee members.
It was followed by more than $2.4 billion on June 22, 2004, and $1.6 billion three days later. The CPA turned over sovereignty on June 28.
Paul Bremer, who as the administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority ran Iraq after initial combat operations ended, said the enormous shipments were done at the request of the Iraqi minister of finance.
"He said, 'I am concerned that I will not have the money to support the Iraqi government expenses for the first couple of months after we are sovereign. We won't have the mechanisms in place, I won't know how to get the money here,'" Bremer said.
"So these shipments were made at the explicit request of the Iraqi minister of finance to forward fund government expenses, a perfectly, seems to me, legitimate use of his money," Bremer told lawmakers.
WHERE'S THE MONEY?
Democrats led by Waxman also questioned whether the lack of oversight of $12 billion in Iraqi money that was disbursed by Bremer and the CPA somehow enabled insurgents to get their hands on the funds, possibly through falsifying names on the government payroll.
"I have no knowledge of monies being diverted. I would certainly be concerned if I thought they were," Bremer said. He pointed out that the problem of fake names on the payroll existed before the U.S.-led invasion.
The special inspector general for Iraqi reconstruction, Stuart Bowen, said in a January 2005 report that $8.8 billion was unaccounted for after being given to the Iraqi ministries.
"We were in the middle of a war, working in very difficult conditions, and we had to move quickly to get this Iraqi money working for the Iraqi people," Bremer told lawmakers. He said there was no banking system and it would have been impossible to apply modern accounting standards in the midst of a war.
"I acknowledge that I made mistakes and that, with the benefit of hindsight, I would have made some decisions differently," Bremer said.
Republicans argued that Bremer and the CPA staff did the best they could under the circumstances and accused Democrats of trying to score political points over the increasingly unpopular Iraq war.
"We are in a war against terrorists, to have a blame meeting isn't, in my opinion, constructive," said Rep. Dan Burton, an Indiana Republican.
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/CrisesArticle.aspx?storyId=N06312951&WTmodLoc=World-R5-Alertnet-3
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Pallets of US cash sent to Baghdad before handover
Wed 7 Feb 2007 1:23:56 GMT
By Jeremy Pelofsky
WASHINGTON, Feb 6 (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Reserve sent record payouts of more than $4 billion in cash to Baghdad on giant pallets aboard military planes shortly before the United States gave control back to Iraqis, lawmakers said on Tuesday.
The money, which had been held by the United States, came from Iraqi oil exports, surplus dollars from the U.N.-run oil-for-food program and frozen assets belonging to the ousted Saddam Hussein regime.
Question...
Can everyone now admit that Iraqi oil is indeed flowing out of Iraq now?
363 tons of cash. Nice.
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Question...
Can everyone now admit that Iraqi oil is indeed flowing out of Iraq now?
363 tons of cash. Nice.
That won't work. You know what an ultra-left propaganda outfit Reuters is. ::)
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Reconstruction Official on Iraqi Billions: "What Difference Does It Make?"
By Paul Kiel - February 6, 2007, 2:06 PM
What happened to billions in Iraqi funds that were overseen by the Coalition Provisional Authority? That's not "important," according to David Oliver, the former Director of Management and Budget of the agency.
A recording of the unfortunately candid remarks, previously made by Oliver to the BBC, were played during this morning's oversight hearing by Rep. Diane Watson (D-CA). The hearing has focused on the CPA's administration of nearly $9 billion in Iraqi funds in 2003 and 2004 -- money that Stuart Bowen, Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, has said was inadequately accounted for.
"I have no idea, I can't tell you whether or not the money went to the right things or didn't - nor do I actually think it is important," Oliver says on the tape . "Billions of dollars of their money disappeared, yes I understand, I'm saying what difference does it make?"
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002492.php
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hahahaha "what difference does it make?"
what a f'king crook.
quick, someone defend him by saying pilferage is a-okay because of Pelosi's san francisco!!
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why was the FEd giving that money back to iraq? We should have kept it. What the fuck
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why was the FEd giving that money back to iraq? We should have kept it. What the f**k
We're buying the money from them quietly, dude:
Pallets of US cash sent to Baghdad before handover
Wed 7 Feb 2007 1:23:56 GMT
By Jeremy Pelofsky
WASHINGTON, Feb 6 (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Reserve sent record payouts of more than $4 billion in cash to Baghdad on giant pallets aboard military planes shortly before the United States gave control back to Iraqis, lawmakers said on Tuesday.
The money, which had been held by the United States, came from Iraqi oil exports, surplus dollars from the U.N.-run oil-for-food program and frozen assets belonging to the ousted Saddam Hussein regime.
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I hope so, we are getting demonized for doing so we might as well be actually doing it.
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I hope so, we are getting demonized for doing so we might as well be actually doing it.
I agree... can I get gas down to 99 cents a gallon? Please?
Georgie? You listening? Hook a brutha' up...
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I agree... can I get gas down to 99 cents a gallon? Please?
Georgie? You listening? Hook a brutha' up...
By using MPG-CAPS (http://jme.mpgproduct.com/default.aspx?cid=50962)TM, <--click me you could save 10% or more on your fuel costs, regardless of the pump price.
That's like filling up at $1.80, while every other gas station is selling gas for $2.oo
Have a listen to what others are saving (http://jme.mpgproduct.com/P-interviews.aspx?cid=50962) <--click me with MPG-CAPs.
Some of us even get our fuel free :D