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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Wiggs on December 24, 2012, 10:40:45 PM
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face of the earth. Yehoshua Christ of Nazareth. Can't wait for your return sir. Thanks for dying for all our sins. It's very unfortunate that all can't enjoy eternal life in heaven but that's what faith is all about. I pray that all my fellow getbiggers, believers and non-believers, friends and foes, are watched over and their families protected.
In your name I pray. Amen.
*Note
* Don't bother responding with negative comments, by now you know I'm the king of ignoring.
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Rock and roll jesus. Bet he's slamming pussy in heaven right now.
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I wonder how Jesus Christ fits into the whole shape shifting reptilian theory. No doubt JC was a shape shifter. Probably how he walked on water--transformed into an Epic animal to achieve that feat.
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You are right, it is Issac Newton`s birthday today.
(http://irregulartimes.com/aapaypalfiles/images/isaacnewtonbirthdaybuttonthumb.png)
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I wonder how Jesus Christ fits into the whole shape shifting reptilian theory. No doubt JC was a shape shifter. Probably how he walked on water--transformed into an Epic animal to achieve that feat.
He can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. He knows all there is, was and ever will be. Can you imagine a being that can affect things on a subatomic level? No, you can't. He is who he said he was and what was prophesied.
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(http://religiousfreaks.com/UserFiles/Media/Thumbnail/jesus.christ.action.figure.jpg)
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Jesus was born in the warmer months this is a historical fact.
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Wiggs is a cool "guy".
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He can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. He knows all there is, was and ever will be. Can you imagine a being that can affect things on a subatomic level? No, you can't. He is who he said he was and what was prophesied.
lol, pretty sure every "being" can "affect things on a subatomic level"
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Jesus was born in the warmer months this is a historical fact.
^ ;)
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face of the earth. Yehoshua Christ of Nazareth. Can't wait for your return sir. Thanks for dying for all our sins. It's very unfortunate that all can't enjoy eternal life in heaven but that's what faith is all about. I pray that all my fellow getbiggers, believers and non-believers, friends and foes, are watched over and their families protected.
In your name I pray. Amen.
*Note
* Don't bother responding with negative comments, by now you know I'm the king of ignoring.
Congratulations on your special powers to know things.
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face of the earth. Yehoshua Christ of Nazareth. Can't wait for your return sir. Thanks for dying for all our sins. It's very unfortunate that all can't enjoy eternal life in heaven but that's what faith is all about. I pray that all my fellow getbiggers, believers and non-believers, friends and foes, are watched over and their families protected.
In your name I pray. Amen.
*Note
* Don't bother responding with negative comments, by now you know I'm the king of ignoring.
Actually regardless wether he is the son of God or not he is the most influential and popular being to ever walk the planet. No one even comes close and his death was the pinnacle of mankind, single most influential death of all time that even our modern global calender is based on him. The biggest holidays are also based on him. Nothing can change this no matter who comes next, will not make a difference, it's to late for anyone else to surpass his legacy.
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In reading the synoptic gospels he was either born on jan 4th or the 6th. The reason for the Christian celebration on dec 25 was to mask the day within the roman calendar (end of the festival of Mithra if I remember correctly).
Jesus was just a man. He's inspired a lot of good but also a lot of evil.
Go forth my children and just be fucking nice to each other and leave your primitive religious views at the door.
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Actually regardless wether he is the son of God or not he is the most influential and popular being to ever walk the planet. No one even comes close and his death was the pinnacle of mankind, single most influential death of all time that even our modern global calender is based on him. The biggest holidays are also based on him. Nothing can change this no matter who comes next, will not make a difference, it's to late for anyone else to surpass his legacy.
Congratulations on acquiring your power to know the future.
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His actual name was Immanuel or Jmmanuel.
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Congratulations on your special powers to know things.
it does not take a rocket scientist to know this, the influence will only grow from here as it always has been. Tell me sir of a possible scenario that can change this. Anyone with an IQ of 30 would know this to be the case
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Yehoshua Christ of Nazareth.
He's a hell of a vocalist..
(http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/n/nazareth/album-hair-of-the-dog.jpg)
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thought this was about coleman
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Actually regardless wether he is the son of God or not he is the most influential and popular being to ever walk the planet. No one even comes close and his death was the pinnacle of mankind, single most influential death of all time that even our modern global calender is based on him. The biggest holidays are also based on him. Nothing can change this no matter who comes next, will not make a difference, it's to late for anyone else to surpass his legacy.
Correct.
Even non-Christian cultures have been influenced by Christmas and even Easter celebrations as part of their holidays.
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Jesus was born in the warmer months this is a historical fact.
This.
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In reading the synoptic gospels he was either born on jan 4th or the 6th. The reason for the Christian celebration on dec 25 was to mask the day within the roman calendar (end of the festival of Mithra if I remember correctly).
Jesus was just a man. He's inspired a lot of good but also a lot of evil.
Go forth my children and just be fucking nice to each other and leave your primitive religious views at the door.
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Actually regardless wether he is the son of God or not he is the most influential and popular being to ever walk the planet. No one even comes close and his death was the pinnacle of mankind, single most influential death of all time that even our modern global calender is based on him. The biggest holidays are also based on him. Nothing can change this no matter who comes next, will not make a difference, it's to late for anyone else to surpass his legacy.
I agree with you man, so Adonis, you are again wrong even figuratively.
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face of Thanks for dying for all our sins.
Dying for my sins - sounds a bit socialist, who gave her that right ?
It's very unfortunate that all can't enjoy eternal life in heaven but that's
she sounds like a prick tease
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The date is obviously just symbolic because it was same as many of the birthdays of the ancient pagan gods and people traditionally celebrated on 25 December.
So it makes sense that the Romans would have held the celebration on the same date really. Also, as a way to try add legitimicy and to get more followers to the Emperor Constantine's favoured religion. He was still a followed of Sol Invictus (The Unconquered Sun) till his death bed when he was finally baptised.
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.
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face of the earth. Yehoshua Christ of Nazareth. Can't wait for your return sir. Thanks for dying for all our sins. It's very unfortunate that all can't enjoy eternal life in heaven but that's what faith is all about. I pray that all my fellow getbiggers, believers and non-believers, friends and foes, are watched over and their families protected.
In your name I pray. Amen.
*Note
* Don't bother responding with negative comments, by now you know I'm the king of ignoring.
Amen sir..spot on.
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weren't you the one telling someone else here the other day to grow up, uummmm the irony. ;)
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" Don't bother responding with negative comments, by now you know I'm the king of attention whoring."
fixed
fuck your god
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face of the earth. Yehoshua Christ of Nazareth. Can't wait for your return sir. Thanks for dying for all our sins. It's very unfortunate that all can't enjoy eternal life in heaven but that's what faith is all about. I pray that all my fellow getbiggers, believers and non-believers, friends and foes, are watched over and their families protected.
In your name I pray. Amen.
*Note
* Don't bother responding with negative comments, by now you know I'm the king of ignoring.
Sad to say, if he comes back, I'm pretty sure we will kill him again.
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(http://i.qkme.me/35w3fs.jpg)
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His actual name was Immanuel or Jmmanuel.
"On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he was conceived." Luke 2:21...but yeah bro, Jesus was prophesied about by Isaiah and indeed, he was forever known as Immanuel "God is with us" and they were right.
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(http://i49.tinypic.com/t6f6nr.jpg)
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Obama trying to rape baby Jesus?
(http://i49.tinypic.com/t6f6nr.jpg)
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already done on 2008's X-mas.
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face of the earth. Yehoshua Christ of Nazareth. Can't wait for your return sir. Thanks for dying for all our sins. It's very unfortunate that all can't enjoy eternal life in heaven but that's what faith is all about. I pray that all my fellow getbiggers, believers and non-believers, friends and foes, are watched over and their families protected.
In your name I pray. Amen.
*Note
* Don't bother responding with negative comments, by now you know I'm the king of ignoring.
Hallelujah! Praise be to Yahushua (Jesus)!
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Sad to say, if he comes back, I'm pretty sure we will kill him again.
It's impossible to do even an ounce of harm to the Almighty now that He is in His full power and glory.
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It's impossible to do even an ounce of harm to the Almighty now that He is in His full power and glory.
8) 8) 8)
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There were many similar figures to Jesus that were described even before his time. ::yawn::
Good fairy tales.
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It's impossible to do even an ounce of harm to the Almighty now that He is in His full power and glory.
He has never dealt with anything like the military industrial complex or the NRA.
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There were many similar figures to Jesus that were described even before his time. ::yawn::
Good fairy tales.
But non impacted the world the way Jesus did. So Yawn at your post ;)
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But non impacted the world the way Jesus did. So Yawn at your post ;)
Must be good to con the world into believing you can do all those miracles. What a dick.
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Must be good to con the world into believing you can do all those miracles. What a dick.
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it ;)
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That's your opinion and you are entitled to it ;)
I know I am. That is why I stated my opinion ;)
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I know I am. That is why I stated my opinion ;)
Does not mean it's true though ;) :D
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Yeah what a con-man, all those "miracles" then in the end you get your ass beat up and down the street and nailed to a cross and die all because you said you were king of the Jews, The Messiah, the son of God himself. When all you had to do is deny and you would live. Real Deal or con-man/psycho. For some it's just so unfathomable, they'll only accept the latter choice, in actuality, he was the real deal. Forget about it being prophesied (who, what, when, where, why and how) and everything coming true, that's just a coincidence. ::)
I actually feel that some atheists make a conscious decision not to believe because it would affect the way they live their life. Not because they don't actually believe. Makes a lot of sense, but there will be hell to pay...literally.
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Wiggs, was your jesus black or white?
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Wiggs, was your jesus black or white?
He was Jewish and Jews of that time, looked like modern middle eastern people. Bronze skin and short. There is only one Yehoshua aka Jesus, despite our differences, you know very well that we worship the same one. I can handle worshipping a non-black in human form, question is can you handle worhshipping a non-white in human form, knowing your hatred for the people with brown skin, I'd be amazed. He wasn't white, he wasn't Euro, he didn't have blue eyes or blond hair. All that was to make it easier on the minds of you saps that feel you're superior to other races of people. No one is superior to no one here.
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Yeah what a con-man, all those "miracles" then in the end you get your ass beat up and down the street and nailed to a cross and die all because you said you were king of the Jews, The Messiah, the son of God himself. When all you had to do is deny and you would live. Con-man/psycho or the real deal. For some it's just so unfathomable, they'll only accept the latter choice, in actuality, he was the real deal. Forget about it being prophesied (who, what, when, where, why and how) and everything coming true, that's just a coincidence. ::)
I actually feel that some atheists make a conscious decision not to believe because it would affect the way they live their life. Not because they don't actually believe. Makes a lot of sense, but there will be hell to pay...literally.
Wait I thought you didn't believe in this. Are you trolling? sarcasm?
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Must be good to con the world into believing you can do all those miracles. What a dick.
(http://static4.fjcdn.com/comments/oh+look+another+atheist+post+ruining+funnyjunk+_07e210f5d8e47f15b557dccb23197dc6.png)
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Wait I thought you didn't believe in this. Are you trolling? sarcasm?
Fuck no I'm not trolling. I'm dead serious. I put it on my balls.
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Fuck no I'm not trolling. I'm dead serious. I put it on my balls.
ahhh, so you are trolling? almost had me fooled there lol :D
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ahhh, so you are trolling? almost had me fooled there lol :D
Sorry brah, I'm as serious as a heart attack. I'll defend it with my life. If I go down, I know where I'm going and I'm at peace knowing it.
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Sorry brah, I'm as serious as a heart attack. I'll defend it with my life. If I go down, I know where I'm going and I'm at peace knowing it.
Bro you are confusing the hell out of me. OK one more time, are you a Christian?
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Bro you are confusing the hell out of me. OK one more time, are you a Christian?
YES
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THE PLAIN TRUTH
ABOUT CHRISTMAS
Where did the world get Christmas?...from the Bible, or paganism. Here are astonishing facts which may shock you. Test yourself. How much do you know of the origin of the Christmas tree - of "Santa Claus" - of the mistletoe - of the holly wreath - of the custom of exchanging gifts?
When I was a little boy, I was taught to hang up my stockings on Christmas eve. When I awakened the next morning, they were filled with small toys and sacks or little boxes of candy and nuts. And beside the mantle, from which my stockings hung, a Christmas tree had suddenly appeared, decorated with shiny tinsel. And on it hung presents. Other presents for us children were piled on the floor underneath. I was told Santa Claus had come down the chimney during the night and left all these things.
But did I question what my parents had told me? Of course not. I accepted it - took it all for granted. Didn't you?
Stop and think a moment. Very few have ever reflected on WHY they believe what they do - WHY they follow the customs they do, or from WHERE those customs came. We were born into a world filled with customs. We grew up accepting them without question. Why? Sheep instinct? Well, not exactly. But by nature we do tend to follow the crowd, whether right or wrong. Sheep follow others to the slaughter. Humans ought to check up where they are going. How - WHEN did Christmas originate? Does Christmas REALLY celebrate the birthday of Christ? Was Jesus born on December 25th? Did the original apostles, who knew Jesus personally and were taught by Him, celebrate His birthday on December 25th? Did they celebrate it AT ALL?
If Christmas is the chief of the Christian holidays, WHY do so many non-Christians observe it? Do you know? Why do people exchange presents with family members, friends, relatives, at Christmas time? Was it because the wise men presented gifts to the Christ-child? The answer may surprise you.
Most people have "supposed" a lot of things about Christmas that are not true. But let's quit "supposing" and get the facts!
WHAT ENCYCLOPEDIAS SAY
The word "Christmas" means "Mass of Christ," or, as it came to be shortened, "Christ-Mass." It came to non-Christians and Protestants from the Roman Catholic Church. And where did they get it? NOT from the New Testament - NOT from the Bible - NOT from the original apostles who were personally instructed by Christ - but it gravitated in the fourth century into the Roman Church from paganism.
Since the celebration of Christmas has come to the world from the Roman Catholic Church, and has no authority but that of the Roman Catholic Church, let us examine the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, published by that church. Under the heading "Christmas," you will find:
"Christmas was NOT among the earliest festivals on the Church...the first evidence of the feast is FROM EGYPT." "PAGAN CUSTOMS centering around the January calends gravitated to Christmas."
And in the same encyclopedia, under the heading "Natal Day," we find that the early Catholic father, Origen, acknowledged this truth: "...In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is ONLY SINNERS (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into THIS world".
Encyclopedia Britannica, 1946 edition, has this: "Christmas (i.e., the Mass of Christ)...Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the church..." It was not instituted by Christ or the apostles, or by Bible authority. It was picked up afterward from paganism. The Encyclopedia Americana, 1944 edition, says: "Christmas...It was, according to many authorities, not celebrated in the first centuries of the Christian church, as the Christian usage in general was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons rather than their birth..." (The "Communion," which is instituted by New Testament Bible authority, is a memorial of the death of Christ.) "...A feast was established in memory of this event [Christ's birth] in the FOURTH CENTURY. In the fifth century the Western Church ordered it to be celebrated forever ON THE DAY OF THE OLD ROMAN FEAST OF THE BIRTH OF SOL, as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ's birth existed."
Now notice! These recognized historical authorities show Christmas was not observed by Christians for the first two or three hundred years - a period longer than the entire history of the United States as a nation! It got into the Western, or Roman, Church, by the fourth century A.D. It was not until the fifth century that the Roman Church ordered it to be celebrated as an official Christian festival!
JESUS NOT BORN DECEMBER 25th
Jesus was not even born in the winter season! When the Christ-child was born "there were in the same country shepherds ABIDING in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night" (Luke 2:8). This never could have occurred in Judaea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them not later than October 15, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed that date. Notice that the Bible itself proves, in Song of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season not permitting shepherds to abide in open fields at night.
"It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the FIRST RAIN," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.)
Continuing, this authority states: "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As...the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in OCTOBER), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole SUMMER. And, as these shepherds had not YET brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields BY NIGHT. On this very ground, the nativity in December should be given up. The feeding of the flocks by night in the fields is a CHRONOLOGICAL FACT...See the quotations from the Talmudists in Lightfoot."
Any encyclopedia, or any other authority, will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25. The Catholic Encyclopedia frankly states this fact.
The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though if I had space in this booklet I could show you scriptures which at least strongly indicate it was in the early fall - probably September - approximately six months after Passover.
If God had wished us to observe and celebrate Christ's birthday, He would not have so completely hidden the exact date.
HOW THIS PAGAN CUSTOM GOT INTO THE CHURCH
Then how did this pagan custom creep into the Western Christian world?
The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religous Knowledge explains it clearly, in its article on "Christmas": "How much the date of the festival depended upon the pagan Brumalia (Dec. 25) following the Saturnalia (Dec. 17-24), and celebrating the shortest day of the year and the 'new sun'...cannot be accurately determined. The pagan Saturnalia and Brumalia WERE TOO DEEPLY ENTRENCHED IN POPULAR CUSTOM TO BE SET ASIDE BY CHRISTIAN INFLUENCE...The pagan festival with its riot and merrymaking was so popular that Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little change in spirit and manner. Christian preachers of the West and the Near East protested against the unseemly frivolity with which Christ's birthday was celebrated, while Christians of Mesopotamia ACCUSED THEIR WESTERN BRETHREN OF IDOLATRY AND SUN WORSHIP FOR ADOPTING AS CHRISTIAN THIS PAGAN FESTIVAL."
Remember, the Roman world had been pagan. Prior to the fourth century, Christians were few in number, though increasing, and were persecuted by the government and by pagans. But, with the advent of Constantine as emperor, who made his profession of Christianity in the fourth century, placing Christianity on an equal footing with paganism, people of the Roman world began to accept this now-popular Christianity by the hundreds of thousands.
But remember, these people had grown up in pagan customs, chief of which was this idolatrous festival of December 25th. It was a festival of merrymaking, with its special spirit. They enjoyed it! They didn't want to give it up. Now this same article in the New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge explains how the recognition by Constantine of Sunday, which had been the day of pagan sun worship, and how the influence of the pagan Manichaeism, which identified the SON OF GOD with the physical SUN, gave these pagans of the fourth century, now turning over wholesale to "Christianity," their excuse for calling their pagan-festival date of December 25th (birthday of the SUN-god), the birthday of the SON OF GOD.
And THAT is how "Christmas" became fastened on our Western world. We may call it by another name, but it's the same old pagan sun-worshipping festival still. The only change is in what we call it. You can CALL a rabbit a "lion," but it's still a rabbit, just the same.
Again from the Encyclopaedia Britannica: "Certain Latins, as early as 354, may have transferred the birthday from January 6th to December 25, WHICH WAS THEN A MITHRAIC FEAST...OR BIRTHDAY OF THE UNCONQUERED SUN...The Syrians and Armenians, who clung to January 6th, accused the Romans of sun worship and idolatry, contending...that the feast of December 25, had been invented by disciples of Cerinthus..."
http://home.sprynet.com/~pabco/ptofxmas.htm
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YES
Wiggs you are a down to earth cat but seriously you are the first Christian to say "I will put it on my ball" lol, that's why I was confused lol, good sense of humour ;)
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Wiggs you are a down to earth cat but seriously you are the first Christian to say "I will put it on my ball" lol, that's why I was confused lol, good sense of humour ;)
lolz. I do put it on my balls though. Hardcore.
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First of all, ain't no one going to read that, way to long for getbig liking, second if it's about some evil twist or it's evil origins, who cares, Christmas today is about happiness and about being in good spirits and having a good time. Everything has an evil twist to it, we don't have to be hard assess about everything. 8)
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lolz. I do put it on my balls though. Hardcore.
Now that's a hardcore Christian lol ;D
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THE PLAIN TRUTH
ABOUT CHRISTMAS
And in the same encyclopedia, under the heading "Natal Day," we find that the early Catholic father, Origen, acknowledged this truth: "...In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is ONLY SINNERS (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into THIS world".
http://home.sprynet.com/~pabco/ptofxmas.htm
Correct me if I am wrong (as I probably am regarding the new testament since I am Jewish), but wasn't the birth of Jesus celebrated not just by his family, but by the 3 wise men who showed up with various forms of lavish gifts?
I'd say that if true, that was probably the best example of a "birth" being celebrated if I ever heard of one.
"1"
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THE PLAIN TRUTH
ABOUT CHRISTMAS
Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25!!! OMG thanks for clearing that up!!
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Correct me if I am wrong (as I probably am regarding the new testament since I am Jewish), but wasn't the birth of Jesus celebrated not just by his family, but by the 3 wise men who showed up with various forms of lavish gifts?
I'd say that if true, that was probably the best example of a "birth" being celebrated if I ever heard of one.
"1"
That is correct.
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Correct me if I am wrong (as I probably am regarding the new testament since I am Jewish), but wasn't the birth of Jesus celebrated not just by his family, but by the 3 wise men who showed up with various forms of lavish gifts?
I'd say that if true, that was probably the best example of a "birth" being celebrated if I ever heard of one.
"1"
100% spot on. In fact there was something in the sky that showed the 3 wise men how to get to Jesus. The Bible says 'star' but obviously that was metaphorically for something else. Nevertheless, indeed the 3 wise men rejoiced at his birth.
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Here is what the new testaments reads as:
Matthew 2:2
"After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi[a] from the east came to Jerusalem 2 and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”
Matthew 2:11
"On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh."
I'd call that a celebration. Men from far heard of a birth and traveled a great distance in order to worship this child. Along with their worship, they brought treasures and presented him with gold, frankincense and myrrh.
I would not just call that a birthday, but a great birthday..
"1"
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I find it very refreshing to see Wiggs showing a genuine reverence for traditional values that are obviously very important to him. I thought it was a great, sincere post.
Amazing how these threads are just magnets for the hate....not even "funny GetBig posts."
Happy Birthday Annunaki Baby Jesus, and Merry Christmas everybody.
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Fuck no I'm not trolling. I'm dead serious. I put it on my balls.
Do you know that the word "testify" is based upon that act of Romans swearing in court by holding their testicles and pledging to speak the truth?
Given your statement quoted above, I thought you might well be aware of this.
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(http://i.qkme.me/35w3fs.jpg)
LOL
Jesus was the fucking man, he was a good man too, he may or may not have had super powers that is up for speculation understandably
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I am certain that all here are more than familiar with the story of the very first Christmas and of how we came to celebrate it with the exchange of presents. But how many of us have actually bothered to open the most important gift of all?
It is not still under the tree, pushed back by larger, more expensive gifts. Neither is it out in the garage with a bright red bow tied to a steering wheel or handlebars. It isn't still at the mall on layaway nor is it at church. In truth, it is rarely at church for while so many may go there this day...Well, you know...
This gift that I speak of, this unopened gift, is within you.
Open your heart.
I trust your Christmas goes well and that your life is filled with all that you need.
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I am certain that all here are more than familiar with the story of the very first Christmas and of how we came to celebrate it with the exchange of presents. But how many of us have actually bothered to open the most important gift of all?
It is not still under the tree, pushed back by larger, more expensive gifts. Neither is it out in the garage with a bright red bow tied to a steering wheel or handlebars. It isn't still at the mall on layaway nor is it at church. In truth, it is rarely at church for while so many may go there this day...Well, you know...
This gift that I speak of, this unopened gift, is within you.
Open your heart.
I trust your Christmas goes well and that your life is filled with all that you need.
Yes, forget about presents and material junk, this is what it's all about.
Peace, happiness, love, forgiveness etc.
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I am certain that all here are more than familiar with the story of the very first Christmas and of how we came to celebrate it with the exchange of presents. But how many of us have actually bothered to open the most important gift of all?
It is not still under the tree, pushed back by larger, more expensive gifts. Neither is it out in the garage with a bright red bow tied to a steering wheel or handlebars. It isn't still at the mall on layaway nor is it at church. In truth, it is rarely at church for while so many may go there this day...Well, you know...
This gift that I speak of, this unopened gift, is within you.
Open your heart.
I trust your Christmas goes well and that your life is filled with all that you need.
8)
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(http://i49.tinypic.com/t6f6nr.jpg)
WTF?
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Jesus was born in the warmer months this is a historical fact.
theres no such thing as a historical fact about "jesus". no real proof such a man ever even existed! for a person of such supposed stature and following, one would think the historical record of his life would be extremely well documented and almost completely undeniable. yet, when compared to famous men of his time, "jesus" has incredibly low levels of evidence to confirm his existence.
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theres no such thing as a historical fact about "jesus". no real proof such a man ever even existed! for a person of such supposed stature and following, one would think the historical record of his life would be extremely well documented and almost completely undeniable. yet, when compared to famous men of his time, "jesus" has incredibly low levels of evidence to confirm his existence.
So are you saying he didn't exist? Do you believe he existed?
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100% spot on. In fact there was something in the sky that showed the 3 wise men how to get to Jesus. The Bible says 'star' but obviously that was metaphorically for something else. Nevertheless, indeed the 3 wise men rejoiced at his birth.
around this time of year orions belt (3 stars) line up in a vertical line that follows the constellations "virgo" and is followed by the rising of the "sun" in the morning.
december = 3 wise men seek a virgin and shortly after find the son of god..
;)
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So are you saying he didn't exist? Do you believe he existed?
i think both are possible but i find the insistence that he was a real person to be intellectually dishonesty
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december = 3 wise men seek a virgin
;)
Foursome?
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i think both are possible but i find the insistence that he was a real person to be intellectually dishonesty
Have you ever researched it?
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Have you ever researched it?
as much as the internet will allow
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as much as the internet will allow
I'm going to copy and paste something....I can find more if this doesn't suffice. Research further if you'd like to verify the writings of these men.
http://beginningandend.com/jesus-exist-historical-evidence-jesus-christ/
Did Jesus Really Exist? Where is the proof from non-Bible sources that he is real?
These questions and others like it are often asked by Bible skeptics and atheists alike. This article will show that not only is there historical evidence (from secular sources as well as Christian) that Jesus Christ was real and existed, but also that Jesus Christ is the most documented and historically verifiable figure in antiquity.
Historical Evidence of Jesus Christ’s Existence From Sources Outside the Bible
Non Biblical sources
Jospehus did not believe Jesus was the Son of God. But he wrote about him.
There are many secular historians who lived in the century after the death of Jesus Christ who confirmed his existence. Here are some of them:
Flavius Josephus
According to his Wikipedia entry: “Titus Flavius Josephus (37 – c. 100), was a 1st-century Romano-Jewish historian and hagiographer of priestly and royal ancestry who recorded Jewish history, with special emphasis on the 1st century AD and the First Jewish–Roman War, which resulted in the Destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70.”
His most important works were The Jewish War (c. 75) and Antiquities of the Jews (c. 94). The Jewish War recounts the Jewish revolt against Roman occupation (66–70). Antiquities of the Jews recounts the history of the world from a Jewish perspective for an ostensibly Roman audience. These works provide valuable insight into 1st century Judaism and the background of Early Christianity.
Josephus was a Jew who did not believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God or Christianity. In The Antiquities of the Jews, book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3 the famous historian Flavius Josephus writes:
“Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works—a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.” (source)
Later Josephus writes:
“But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of a bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are severe in judgment above all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thought he had now a good opportunity, as Festus was now dead, and Albinus was still on the road; so he assembled a council of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as law-breakers, he delivered them over to be stoned.” (source)
Josephus considered one of the greatest historians of antiquity, independently provides proof and evidence that Jesus was a real person who did exist and also confirms the crucifixion of Jesus on the cross under the orders of Pontius Pilate, thus confirming the Biblical account as well.
Tacitus
Cornelius Tacitus was a Roman Historian who lived from 55-120AD. In 115 AD, P. Cornelius Tacitus wrote the following passage that refers to Jesus (called “Christus,” which means “The Messiah”) in book 15, chapter 44 of The Annals after a six-day fire burned much of Rome:
“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.” (source)
Despite the fact the clearly despised Christianity as a “mischievous superstition”, Tacitus no less confirms once again the existence of Jesus and His crucifixion on the cross, it also states Pontius Pilate as the procurator who oversaw the crucifixion again giving non-Biblical proof of Jesus’ existence as recorded in the Bible.
Pliny The Younger
Pliny The Younger wrote of his persecution of Christians.
Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus, (61 AD – ca. 112 AD) : “better known as Pliny the Younger, was a lawyer, author, and magistrate of Ancient Rome. According to Wikipedia: “Pliny is known for his hundreds of surviving letters, which are an invaluable historical source for the time period. Many are addressed to reigning emperors or to notables such as the historian, Tacitus. Pliny himself was a notable figure, serving as an imperial magistrate under Trajan (reigned AD 98–117). Pliny was considered an honest and moderate man, consistent in his pursuit of suspected Christian members according to Roman law, and rose through a series of Imperial civil and military offices, the cursus honorum.”
In his correspondence with the emperor Trajan (Epistulae X.96) he reported on his actions against the followers of Christ. He asks the Emperor for instructions dealing with Christians and explained that he forced Christians to curse Christ under painful torturous inquisition:
“They were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of a meal–but ordinary and innocent food.” (source)
So not only was Pliny aware of Jesus Christ, he also provides description of the activities of the early church. In a later writing he details persecution against Christians:
“Even this practice, however, they had abandoned after the publication of my edict, by which, according to your orders, I had forbidden political associations. I therefore judged it so much more the necessary to extract the real truth, with the assistance of torture, from two female slaves, who were styled deaconesses: but I could discover nothing more than depraved and excessive superstition.
In the meanwhile, the method I have observed towards those who have denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were Christians; if they confessed it I repeated the question twice again, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed. For whatever the nature of their creed might be, I could at least feel not doubt that contumacy and inflexible obstinacy deserved chastisement. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.” (source)
So here we see that not only did Pliny not follow the Christian faith, he was torturing Christians and threatening death against them. And he even records that under threat of execution (just for believing in Jesus Christ as God) the early church members refused to deny their faith in Jesus. This is remarkable evidence of Jesus’ existence outside of the Bible.
Julius Africanus and Tallus
Sextus Julius Africanus (c.160 – c.240) was a Christian traveller and historian of the late 2nd and early 3rd century AD. He is important chiefly because of his influence on Eusebius, on all the later writers of Church history among the Fathers, and on the whole Greek school of chroniclers
Julius Africanus quotes the writings of Tallus, who was a first century non-Christian historian. In his Chronicles, Africanus quoting the historian Tallus, explains the reason for it being so dark during the day time on the day of crucifixion of Jesus Christ:
“An eclipse of the sun’unreasonably, as it seems to me (unreasonably of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died.” Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18.
The importance of this quote is two fold as it shows: 1) non-Christian proof of Jesus’ existence and 2) yet another confirmation of the Bible’s account of Jesus’ crucifixion. The Bible states in reference to the time Jesus was put on the cross: “Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour” The “sixth hour” is noon and the ninth hour is 3:00PM. Thus we see that the historian Thallus was trying to explain the odd occurrence of the sky being dark at noon during the crucifxion of Jesus as an eclipse. Africanus also quotes the secular scholar Phlegon, a Greek Historian who lived in the 2nd century AD and also wrote of an eclipse occuring on the day Jesus was crucified. This again provides proof from a non-Christian source that confirms the account of Jesus being a real person who lived as well as confirming the account of His crucifixion straight from the Bible.
Lucian of Samosate
Lucian (Born 115 AD) was a well-known Greek satirist and traveling lecturer. More than eighty works bear his name. He mocked Christians in his writing, but at the same time provided evidence that Jesus really did exist:
“He was second only to that one whom they still worship today, the man in Palestine who was crucified because he brought this new form of initiation into the world.”
“Having convinced themselves that they are immortal and will live forever, the poor wretches despise death and most willingly give themselves to it. Moreover, that first lawgiver of theirs persuaded them that they are all brothers the moment they transgress and deny the Greek gods and begin worshiping that crucified sophist and living by his laws.”
“They scorn all possessions without distinction and treat them as community property. They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time.”
So again, even though Lucian does not mention Jesus by name, there is no doubt he is speaking of the Jesus as he confirms: 1) that he was crucified in “Palestine” (the name of Israel at that time), 2) had followers who believed in eternal life and 3) that they were all equal in Jesus Christ. Lucian even mentions that Christians deny all other gods and believe on “faith alone.” This again is all in accordance with the Bible’s clear statements about the Christian faith and provides even more evidence from outside of the Bible that Jesus, the “man in Palestine” did really exist.
Seutonius
Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus commonly known as Suetonius (ca. 69/75 – after 130), was a Roman historian belonging to the equestrian order in the early Imperial era. His most important surviving work is a set of biographies of twelve successive Roman rulers, from Julius Caesar to Domitian, entitled De Vita Caesarum. The description of his writings states:
The emperor Claudius reigned 41 to 54 AD. Suetonius reports his dealings with the eastern Roman Empire, that is, with Greece and Macedonia, and with the Lycians, Rhodians, and Trojans. He then reports that the emperor expelled the Jews from Rome, since they “constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Christ” (Judaeos impulsore Chresto assidue tumultuantis Roma expulit). The name appears in manuscripts of Suetonius as Chrestus, a form also used by the Roman historian Tacitus to refer to Chrestiani. (source)
Skeptics will point to the different spelling to say “that’s not Jesus he’s talking about!” but again, with the totality of evidence, it’s very obvious that followers of Jesus in the Roman Empire were persecuted by Roman authorities. So it certainly falls in line with the other historical accounts. And there are a number of sources the support the history of Christians in the Roman empire who followed Jesus Christ and being punished for it.
The Bible is Historical Proof That Jesus Existed
The amount of New Testament manuscript evidence of Jesus Christ is greater than any other figure in antiquity.
There is a great logical fallacy among Bible skeptics, atheists and those who like to challenge Christianity that says when discussing the historical aspects of the Bible “you can’t use the Bible as proof that Jesus existed. You must use non-Bible sources!!” To which this author says, “why not?” The four Gospels of the Bible are bibliographical accounts of the life of Jesus. The normal objective measure of the reliability of historical documents is: 1) The number of available copies of ancient manuscripts and 2) the time span between the original version and the date of those copies still in existence today. When examined under this standard, the Bible proves to provide a treasure trove of proof and evidence that Jesus really existed.
Some of the earliest manuscript fragments of the New Testament are the John Rylands Fragment, Chester Beatty Papyrus and the Bodmer Papyrus which were written between 50-100AD. Copies of these papyri were reproduced in 125-200AD, meaning that the time span between the originals and the copies still in existence today is 29 years to 130 years, putting all these manuscripts beings written anywhere from 50-100 years after the death of Jesus Christ. Now some may object and say “Hold on! These manuscripts were written years after Jesus died. There’s no way they could be reliable!” But any expert on ancient documents would disagree.
Let’s look at some of the more famous and universally accepted historical documents and see how they match up with the Bible:
Plato — Plato wrote his works from 427-347 BC. The earliest manuscript copy of Plato’s writing in existence today was written in 900 AD. That is 1,200 years after Plato’s death! And there are only 2 copies of these manuscripts in existence. (source)
Julius Caesar — One of the most celebrated and trusted historical figures. Caesar lived from 100-44 BC and the earliest manuscript copy of his writings dates back to 900 AD, putting our best evidence of Caesar ever existing 1,000 years after his death. And there are 10 copies of ancient manuscripts of Caesar’s Gallic Wars. (source) So if you question the Bible based on when it was written, being “translated so many times” (it was not – we still have the same Greek manuscripts today) and still question whether Jesus existed, then you must also be really sure that Julius Caesar and Plato were completely fictional characters and never really existed.
Homer — Homer, who historians are not even sure ever really existed even today, is credited with writing the Iliad in ca 900 BC. The earliest manuscript copy of the Iliad dates to 400 BC. Meaning the only proof of Homer or the Iliad being accurate is from 500 years after the death of Homer. Additionally there are 643 copies of ancient manuscripts of the Iliad written over the centuries that when compared against each other by experts have a 95.3 consistency and accuracy, making it one of the most reliable and proven documents of antiquity. (source)
That is of course, until you compare it to the New Testament. The New Testament manuscripts date to less than 100 years after the death of Christ. Additionally there are over 5,600 ancient manuscript copies of the New Testament giving it more copies to a degree that dwarfs any other figure of ancient history (to view actual copies of some of these ancient manuscripts, see here). And they have a 99% accuracy when compared to each other. The evidence is not even comparable. And it all points to Jesus Christ. The record of the life, ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ has more evidence and proof than any other person from antiquity.
The Proof and Evidence is Clear – Jesus Christ Really Existed
The most amazing conclusion in all of this is not that Jesus really existed — it is that He still exists. And He sits in Heaven at the right hand of God offering forgiveness to those who will not just believe He was a regular man, but that He as the Son of God, gave His life on that same cross that so many historians knew about, to take the punishment for sins that all of humanity has committed. It just takes faith and trust in that sacrifice to receive him. Jesus said: Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. - Revelation 3:20-21.
Jesus wants us to believe in Him so we can be freely forgiven of the sins we have committed in our lives, have eternal life and reign with Him. So now that it is established that He existed, why not take the time to get to know Jesus Christ and who He said He is from His historically-verifiable perspective? Your eternal life may depend on it.
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yes i already know about all of that.
a few mentions of his name by historians from the era. and then the new testament.
i dont consider the new testament in any way shape or form.
and the few historians who mentioned him did so sparingly and it is up for debate whether or not those were authentic. remember, history is written by the winners and over the past 2 thousand years the christian church had tremendous power to not only kill scientists who discovered things contradictory to their religious dogma but also tamper with historical artifacts to their liking.
look for evidence of julius ceasar who lived in the same time. or socrates who lived long before. or king tut who lived way way before. the evidence for these men, and others, is absolutely gargantuan in contrast with the so called "evidence" for jesus.
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yes i already know about all of that.
a few mentions of his name by historians from the era. and then the new testament.
i dont consider the new testament in any way shape or form.
and the few historians who mentioned him did so sparingly and it is up for debate whether or not those were authentic. remember, history is written by the winners and over the past 2 thousand years the christian church had tremendous power to not only kill scientists who discovered things contradictory to their religious dogma but also tamper with historical artifacts to their liking.
look for evidence of julius ceasar who lived in the same time. or socrates who lived long before. or king tut who lived way way before. the evidence for these men, and others, is absolutely gargantuan in contrast with the so called "evidence" for jesus.
I gave you what you were looking for and you still argue. There is no other proof I can give you. You'll argue against it. There are more than " a few historians who mentioned him." Even Muslims and Jews admit he was a real man. Why is it up for debate, I'd like a reason. You are looking for a reason not to believe he was real. Reread what you posted but remove yourself from your post, you know what I mean.
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Apparently you didnt read it, or read it but didnt comprehend it because you would have seen this.
Julius Caesar — One of the most celebrated and trusted historical figures. Caesar lived from 100-44 BC and the earliest manuscript copy of his writings dates back to 900 AD, putting our best evidence of Caesar ever existing 1,000 years after his death. And there are 10 copies of ancient manuscripts of Caesar’s Gallic Wars. (source) So if you question the Bible based on when it was written, being “translated so many times” (it was not – we still have the same Greek manuscripts today) and still question whether Jesus existed, then you must also be really sure that Julius Caesar and Plato were completely fictional characters and never really existed.
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I gave you what you were looking for and you still argue. There is no other proof I can give you. You'll argue against it. There are more than " a few historians who mentioned him." Even Muslims and Jews admit he was a real man. Why is it up for debate, I'd like a reason. You are looking for a reason not to believe he was real. Reread what you posted but remove yourself from your post, you know what I mean.
1) i am looking for a reason to believe one way or the other. i dont have an opinion on the subject, there isnt enough evidence either way for me to make up my mind.
2) islam and judaism are both abrahamic religions and very much related to christianity. of course they accept the validity of "scripture" as a historical record, they do the same exact thing in their own belief systems.
3) there are only a few mentions of jesus in historical records outside of the new testament.
4) compare the historical record of other men from his time and prior, such as ceasar, socrates/plato/aristotle, king tut, etc... to "jesus".. do it.
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Apparently you didnt read it, or read it but didnt comprehend it because you would have seen this.
Julius Caesar — One of the most celebrated and trusted historical figures. Caesar lived from 100-44 BC and the earliest manuscript copy of his writings dates back to 900 AD, putting our best evidence of Caesar ever existing 1,000 years after his death. And there are 10 copies of ancient manuscripts of Caesar’s Gallic Wars. (source) So if you question the Bible based on when it was written, being “translated so many times” (it was not – we still have the same Greek manuscripts today) and still question whether Jesus existed, then you must also be really sure that Julius Caesar and Plato were completely fictional characters and never really existed.
that paragraph is literally filled with logical fallacies dude.
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Yeah what a con-man, all those "miracles" then in the end you get your ass beat up and down the street and nailed to a cross and die all because you said you were king of the Jews, The Messiah, the son of God himself. When all you had to do is deny and you would live. Real Deal or con-man/psycho. For some it's just so unfathomable, they'll only accept the latter choice, in actuality, he was the real deal. Forget about it being prophesied (who, what, when, where, why and how) and everything coming true, that's just a coincidence. ::)
I actually feel that some atheists make a conscious decision not to believe because it would affect the way they live their life. Not because they don't actually believe. Makes a lot of sense, but there will be hell to pay...literally.
Hey man, if you choose to believe in fairy tales that's your business. :) You can believe whatever you want. I mainly come here for the men in thongs.
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1) i am looking for a reason to believe one way or the other. i dont have an opinion on the subject, there isnt enough evidence either way for me to make up my mind.
2) islam and judaism are both abrahamic religions and very much related to christianity. of course they accept the validity of "scripture" as a historical record, they do the same exact thing in their own belief systems.
3) there are only a few mentions of jesus in historical records outside of the new testament.
4) compare the historical record of other men from his time and prior, such as ceasar, socrates/plato/aristotle, king tut, etc... to "jesus".. do it.
1. Continue researching, you'll find enough evidence.
2. There you go making up reasons not to believe he existed again.
3. FALSE
4. See my previous post regarding Caesar and reread this...
Plato — Plato wrote his works from 427-347 BC. The earliest manuscript copy of Plato’s writing in existence today was written in 900 AD. That is 1,200 years after Plato’s death! And there are only 2 copies of these manuscripts in existence. (source)
Julius Caesar — One of the most celebrated and trusted historical figures. Caesar lived from 100-44 BC and the earliest manuscript copy of his writings dates back to 900 AD, putting our best evidence of Caesar ever existing 1,000 years after his death. And there are 10 copies of ancient manuscripts of Caesar’s Gallic Wars. (source) So if you question the Bible based on when it was written, being “translated so many times” (it was not – we still have the same Greek manuscripts today) and still question whether Jesus existed, then you must also be really sure that Julius Caesar and Plato were completely fictional characters and never really existed.
Homer — Homer, who historians are not even sure ever really existed even today, is credited with writing the Iliad in ca 900 BC. The earliest manuscript copy of the Iliad dates to 400 BC. Meaning the only proof of Homer or the Iliad being accurate is from 500 years after the death of Homer. Additionally there are 643 copies of ancient manuscripts of the Iliad written over the centuries that when compared against each other by experts have a 95.3 consistency and accuracy, making it one of the most reliable and proven documents of antiquity. (source)
That is of course, until you compare it to the New Testament. The New Testament manuscripts date to less than 100 years after the death of Christ. Additionally there are over 5,600 ancient manuscript copies of the New Testament giving it more copies to a degree that dwarfs any other figure of ancient history (to view actual copies of some of these ancient manuscripts, see here). And they have a 99% accuracy when compared to each other. The evidence is not even comparable. And it all points to Jesus Christ. The record of the life, ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ has more evidence and proof than any other person from antiquity.
You have a problem with the new testament, because you want to have a problem with it. Using it for historical reference validates its content which many have a problem with.
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that paragraph is literally filled with logical fallacies dude.
Then enlighten me.
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Oh Jesus.
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Caesar lived from 100-44 BC and the earliest manuscript copy of his writings dates back to 900 AD, putting our best evidence of Caesar ever existing 1,000 years after his death.
manuscript copy of his writings= best evidence of ceasar ?
So if you question the Bible based on when it was written, being “translated so many times” (it was not – we still have the same Greek manuscripts today) and still question whether Jesus existed, then you must also be really sure that Julius Caesar and Plato were completely fictional characters and never really existed.
if unsure about existence of A, then you must be totally sure about the non-existence of B ?
;)
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I love Jesus.
He's born, I get presents. He dies, I get chocolate.
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evidence for jesus = 5 or 6 historians mention him briefly. and the new testament.
evidence for Caesar = letters to and from just about every single major historical figure that existed during his time. very thorough details given about him by just about every single historian from the time. personal writings , including books, that amount to thousands of pages. paintings and statues of him done during his life from many different artists at many different locations all confirming the same general physical appearance.
zero personal writings from jesus, zero images made of him during his life, what images do exist of him were made after his life and vary significantly in how they present his physical appearance.
etc etc etc
look up evidence for the pharaos of egypt, which predated the time of jesus by thousands of years.
if jesus was a real person and if the story presented about him in the new testament is even remotely accurate, then the amount of "evidence" to prove his existence is astonishngly miniscule.
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The Apostle Peter was crucified upside down by Roman Emperor Nero. Peter walked with the Christ. No one would die for a lie and yet some would say that Jesus of Nazareth never existed. In addition to those that knew Him personally, there were many, many more that knew him in person and from those encounters came to actually know Him as Lord.
Many of them along with countless others that never met the Christ died for their beliefs. This is nothing new as many Hebrews and Muslims and who knows how many others of differing faiths in various countries (including people that are Atheists) have been killed or tortured for their beliefs or lack of as well as race and that by those claiming to be followers of Jesus. Only a fool with an agenda of hatred for the Prince of Peace would think that a true believer in Jesus of Nazareth would kill in His name.
So then, we are left with such as Peter. Why pray tell, would a man die for a falsehood? What kind of con man would give up his life for a lie? What did he have to gain by doing so? Why would he insist upon being crucified upside down? Peter did so because he thought himself unworthy to dies as did the Lord.
Christ never killed, maimed, tortured, lied, stole, raped or pillaged. He never did what others do to this day, and all that he did, all the good he performed was done out of love. Contrast that with Mohammad, Peter Popoff, Joseph Smith, any number of Popes and others of their ilk do. Behave as men. Base. Evil. Doing evil in the name of their own desires and calling it "God's will".
I have never met any of you (yet). Still I believe you exist. Why? I have seen your words and know that you have written them. I know your thoughts because you have expressed them. I need not "see" you to know you are there, to be certain of your existence. I know.
For those that have no faith in the historical evidence of Emperor Nero and his putting to death of the Apostle Peter, suffice to say that it should be proof enough that Christ was at least real, for again what charlatan of a con artist would gladly lay down his life for a lie. I prefer to believe He still is with us. I am not come to argue, only to state what I hold true. If I wanted to belittle people here, believe me, it would be easy.
But while it is much easier to make an enemy than a friend, which would you rather have? It is my desire to make the latter.
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maybe a man named jesus did exist, maybe he did go around teaching, maybe he did have "apostles" and maybe some of those apostles did die because they would not forsake their loyalty to him.
that doesnt mean the guy actually performed any miracles or in any way shape or form was "holy".
dont get me wrong, i believe in an intelligent creating force. this isnt an atheist talking to you. i just have very many reasons for doubting the validity of man-made religious dogma, that is all.
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maybe a man named jesus did exist, maybe he did go around teaching, maybe he did have "apostles" and maybe some of those apostles did die because they would not forsake their loyalty to him.
that doesnt mean the guy actually performed any miracles or in any way shape or form was "holy".
dont get me wrong, i believe in an intelligent creating force. this isnt an atheist talking to you. i just have very many reasons for doubting the validity of man-made religious dogma, that is all.
This is not Hollywood wherein you strip away the tinsel only to find the real tinsel beneath. The words of Christ speak for themselves. I follow no man. I follow Christ. Because I choose to. We all make choices. As they say...Choose wisely.
Be well.
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maybe a man named jesus did exist, maybe he did go around teaching, maybe he did have "apostles" and maybe some of those apostles did die because they would not forsake their loyalty to him.
that doesnt mean the guy actually performed any miracles or in any way shape or form was "holy".
dont get me wrong, i believe in an intelligent creating force. this isnt an atheist talking to you. i just have very many reasons for doubting the validity of man-made religious dogma, that is all.
He was the original Jim Jones. Albeit, Jesus seemed to use his influence over people to do good things.
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This is not Hollywood wherein you strip away the tinsel only to find the real tinsel beneath. The words of Christ speak for themselves. I follow no man. I follow Christ. Because I choose to. We all make choices. As they say...Choose wisely.
Be well.
those "words of christ" were written by men, whether or not jesus was real and whether or not he was holy. fact. what you read was written by men. subject to their own interpretation and translation. you never met the supposed jesus, you only have hear say. and therefore, you follow men.
also, not hollywood where there is exaggerated truth and then the mediocore reality beneath it? have you never been decieved before? were you told be your parents that santa claus existed? or the easter bunny? were your parents not good intentioned in their telling you these tales?
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those "words of christ" were written by men, whether or not jesus was real and whether or not he was holy. fact. what you read was written by men. subject to their own interpretation and translation. you never met the supposed jesus, you only have hear say. and therefore, you follow men.
also, not hollywood where there is exaggerated truth and then the mediocore reality beneath it? have you never been decieved before? were you told be your parents that santa claus existed? or the easter bunny? were your parents not good intentioned in their telling you these tales?
And your "words"? Your insight into the spiritual? Who wrote them? Certainly not a holy man nor a wise one. As such you follow your base desires and this affirmed by your words written here more than a few times.
I believe you exist. I also know that you play at being more than a man but in reality are nothing more than just that. A man and more often than not, a poor example of one.
It's not so much that you are in over your head but that you can't tread water. Let alone walk on it.
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And your "words"? Your insight into the spiritual? Who wrote them? Certainly not a holy man nor a wise one. As such you follow your base desires and this affirmed by your words written here more than a few times.
I believe you exist. I also know that you play at being more than a man but in reality are nothing more than just that. A man and more often than not, a poor example of one.
It's not so much that you are in over your head but that you can't tread water. Let alone walk on it.
not only can i swim but i earned a living teaching competitive swimmers how to improve on their technique ;D
i dont believe in beliefs. i have ideas and opinions. beliefs can stifle progress and cause thinking to stagnant. plus, theres just never any way to be certain of anything and therefore the idea of believing something is just plain intellectually dishonest. that being said, i base my opinions and ideas on lots of different things. your christian religious dogma even contributes quite a bit to the process! in fact i get alot of my moral ideas about pacifism and charity from the supposed teachings and life of "jesus".
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Even Muslims and Jews admit he was a real man who walked on water, cured lepers, fed 5,000 people with tuna sandwiches, was nailed to a cross and came back to life.
Is that true Wiggs?
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happy birthday dangai ichigo
(http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/polloption/dangai-ichigo-21092.jpg)
:D
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worth a look at least.
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There is more evidence of the historical Jesus then any other man in the history of antiquity. I study history and I have studied everyone and not one historical figure has writing dating back from the time they live. Not even Alexander the great, who no one has a problem of his existence from the works of Ptolemy.
We don't question Julius Caesar who is a historical figure that we learned about several centuries after he lived.
Hannibal Barkas and Punic wars, earliest dates are several hundred years after their occurrence.
All the characters from the Trojan Wars from Helen of Troy, Achilles, Hector and Agamemnon to king Priam, all of them where found in a copy of Homer's work, not even the original, again hundreds and hundreds of years after the fact.
Tbomz no offence but you are out to lunch. Very little is known about any historical figure and most that we learn about at the university level have only one credible source and often a very weak one that has been translated and copied from a language not even spoken today.
All Roman Generals
All greek historian
All king from the Achaemenid dynasty
All Assyrian Kings list
All have recorded manuscripts dating several hundred years after they lived.
There is not even a single manuscript on any Pharaoh. Everything we know about them is on Hieroglyphs and to top it off we didn't discover the meaning of 90% of Hieroglyphs until the Rosetta Stone, where we are still finding lots of errors and continue to change wordings and meaning.
Now ready for the good part Tbomz, Cassius Dio and Velleius Paterculus both cover Augustus and they are 2 of the primary source but according to most modern professors they are highly unreliable ohoh Tbombz that leaves only 2 more source for Augustas, Tacitus and Suetonius.
Well Tacitus eh, wait a second isn't that one of the guys that mentioned Jesus? lol....
The primary source of the famous historical figure Augustus, first emperor and founder of Rome is the same primary source that mentioned Jesus. To question Jesus' existence is to question every single historical figure who lived from 100 ad down. Plain and simple
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There is more evidence of the historical Jesus then any other man in the history of antiquity. I study history and I have studied everyone and not one historical figure has writing dating back from the time they live. Not even Alexander the great, who no one has a problem of his existence from the works of Ptolemy.
We don't question Julius Caesar who is a historical figure that we learned about several centuries after he lived.
Hannibal Barkas and Punic wars, earliest dates are several hundred years after their occurrence.
All the characters from the Trojan Wars from Helen of Troy, Achilles, Hector and Agamemnon to king Priam, all of them where found in a copy of Homer's work, not even the original, again hundreds and hundreds of years after the fact.
Tbomz no offence but you are out to lunch. Very little is known about any historical figure and most that we learn about at the university level have only one credible source and often a very weak one that has been translated and copied from a language not even spoken today.
All Roman Generals
All greek historian
All king from the Achaemenid dynasty
All Assyrian Kings list
All have recorded manuscripts dating several hundred years after they lived.
There is not even a single manuscript on any Pharaoh. Everything we know about them is on Hieroglyphs and to top it off we didn't discover the meaning of 90% of Hieroglyphs until the Rosetta Stone, where we are still finding lots of errors and continue to change wordings and meaning.
Now ready for the good part Tbomz, Cassius Dio and Velleius Paterculus both cover Augustus and they are 2 of the primary source but according to most modern professors they are highly unreliable ohoh Tbombz that leaves only 2 more source for Augustas, Tacitus and Suetonius.
Well Tacitus eh, wait a second isn't that one of the guys that mentioned Jesus? lol....
The primary source of the famous historical figure Augustus, first emperor and founder of Rome is the same primary source that mentioned Jesus. To question Jesus' existence is to question every single historical figure who lived from 100 ad down. Plain and simple
As a muslim a I believe 100% Jesus(pbuh) exsisted, theres no question about it. how can anyone question otherwise?
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1) i am looking for a reason to believe one way or the other. i dont have an opinion on the subject, there isnt enough evidence either way for me to make up my mind.
2) islam and judaism are both abrahamic religions and very much related to christianity. of course they accept the validity of "scripture" as a historical record, they do the same exact thing in their own belief systems.
3) there are only a few mentions of jesus in historical records outside of the new testament.
4) compare the historical record of other men from his time and prior, such as ceasar, socrates/plato/aristotle, king tut, etc... to "jesus".. do it.
This is the most false statement any historian can ever read and you would be expelled from class for saying such a false statement. No historical figure have multiple sources of their existence in the way you put it, most have only one and some 2 or 3 at most, they are often historians writing about them hundreds of years after they lived. All other information comes from poetry and tales again hundreds of years after they occured.
Biggest lie you ever invented, letters from historians to the caeser?, lmao ah Noooooo sir sorry dead wrong. No authentic letter exist from one historian to a caeser, Not 1, such letter would be worth 100 million dollars. There are writing depicting letters from this person to that person but we are talking about writings that are written 3-5 hundred years after not the actual letter.
Only 5-6 six historians talked about Jesus, that is almost record breaking huge for that time period. No other historical figure from that era has that many historian talk about them not even Julius Caeser, most of the information gathered from him comes centuries later. Wow, unreal what you are writing here, simply false.
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.
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You've just jumped from "didn't exist," to "maybe he did exist but wasn't who he is claimed to be." All in less than 10 minutes.
Good to know you give your opinions solid investigation and thought before typing them up on the interwebs.
maybe a man named jesus did exist, maybe he did go around teaching, maybe he did have "apostles" and maybe some of those apostles did die because they would not forsake their loyalty to him.
that doesnt mean the guy actually performed any miracles or in any way shape or form was "holy".
dont get me wrong, i believe in an intelligent creating force. this isnt an atheist talking to you. i just have very many reasons for doubting the validity of man-made religious dogma, that is all.
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i dont believe in beliefs. i have ideas and opinions. beliefs can stifle progress and cause thinking to stagnant.
People love to say this. But the truth is if you look at ancient history, Christianity led to or played a major role in many of our present day advancements in human rights, including among them the charity or "welfare system" that I am sure many getbiggers rely upon, and better conditions for homosexuals (a fact that grates many anti-christian homosexuals enormously).
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People love to say this. But the truth is if you look at ancient history, Christianity led to or played a major role in many of our present day advancements in human rights, including among them the charity or "welfare system" that I am sure many getbiggers rely upon, and better conditions for homosexuals (a fact that grates many anti-christian homosexuals enormously).
;D
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People love to say this. But the truth is if you look at ancient history, Christianity led to or played a major role in many of our present day advancements in human rights, including among them the charity or "welfare system" that I am sure many getbiggers rely upon, and better conditions for homosexuals (a fact that grates many anti-christian homosexuals enormously).
It also got rid of a lot of witches.
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People love to say this. But the truth is if you look at ancient history, Christianity led to or played a major role in many of our present day advancements in human rights, including among them the charity or "welfare system" that I am sure many getbiggers rely upon, and better conditions for homosexuals (a fact that grates many anti-christian homosexuals enormously).
Actually, the pagans had no problems with homosexuals. It was viewed as a part of their culture and even certain religious practices. They didn't even have a word for it. They admired the Greeks, Spartans. Macedonians and especially Alexander the Great....need I say more.
It was Constantine who ordered that homosexuals be burned and the Christian Roman Emperors after him who targeted the homosexuals and then burned down and destroyed the beautiful pagan temples and monuments like savages.
It was the Monotheistic cults which vilified homosexuals, the pagans didn't give a shit.
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Actually, the pagans had no problems with homosexuals.
"The pagans" - do you have any idea how generalized that statement is? Plenty of pagan or pre-christian societies were BRUTAL in what they did to homosexuals.
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"The pagans" - do you have any idea how generalized that statement is? Plenty of pagan or pre-christian societies were BRUTAL in what they did to homosexuals.
Greek and Roman pagans obviously.
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Greek and Roman pagans obviously.
Nothing obvious about it.
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It also got rid of a lot of old women accused of being witches and cats.
Fixed
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Nothing obvious about it.
They are the people we owe our Western Civilization to....and as pagans they had no issue against homosexuals or bisexuals.
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face of the earth. Yehoshua Christ of Nazareth. Can't wait for your return sir. Thanks for dying for all our sins. It's very unfortunate that all can't enjoy eternal life in heaven but that's what faith is all about. I pray that all my fellow getbiggers, believers and non-believers, friends and foes, are watched over and their families protected.
In your name I pray. Amen.
*Note
* Don't bother responding with negative comments, by now you know I'm the king of ignoring.
what's your opinion about the second coming?......they said once you die, he has come for you already?
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what's your opinion about the second coming?......they said once you die, he has come for you already?
no homo
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Hey, weren't you that guy that told the other guy the other day to "grow up" ??? ??? :-\ :-\ :-[
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They are the people we owe our Western Civilization to....and as pagans they had no issue against homosexuals or bisexuals.
They played a part in western civilisation, a part which I greatly respect (I have studied ancient religions at University). But Christianity played a massive part over the last two millenium.
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mC1TEdZ4gks/SzE8au5qf7I/AAAAAAAAERU/Rw0IlF3ypZ8/s400/Ronnie+Coleman+Looking+Biblical+at+the+2006+Mr.+Olympia+Finals.jpg)
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There is more evidence of the historical Jesus then any other man in the history of antiquity. I study history and I have studied everyone and not one historical figure has writing dating back from the time they live. Not even Alexander the great, who no one has a problem of his existence from the works of Ptolemy.
We don't question Julius Caesar who is a historical figure that we learned about several centuries after he lived.
Hannibal Barkas and Punic wars, earliest dates are several hundred years after their occurrence.
All the characters from the Trojan Wars from Helen of Troy, Achilles, Hector and Agamemnon to king Priam, all of them where found in a copy of Homer's work, not even the original, again hundreds and hundreds of years after the fact.
Tbomz no offence but you are out to lunch. Very little is known about any historical figure and most that we learn about at the university level have only one credible source and often a very weak one that has been translated and copied from a language not even spoken today.
All Roman Generals
All greek historian
All king from the Achaemenid dynasty
All Assyrian Kings list
All have recorded manuscripts dating several hundred years after they lived.
There is not even a single manuscript on any Pharaoh. Everything we know about them is on Hieroglyphs and to top it off we didn't discover the meaning of 90% of Hieroglyphs until the Rosetta Stone, where we are still finding lots of errors and continue to change wordings and meaning.
Now ready for the good part Tbomz, Cassius Dio and Velleius Paterculus both cover Augustus and they are 2 of the primary source but according to most modern professors they are highly unreliable ohoh Tbombz that leaves only 2 more source for Augustas, Tacitus and Suetonius.
Well Tacitus eh, wait a second isn't that one of the guys that mentioned Jesus? lol....
The primary source of the famous historical figure Augustus, first emperor and founder of Rome is the same primary source that mentioned Jesus. To question Jesus' existence is to question every single historical figure who lived from 100 ad down. Plain and simple
This is the most false statement any historian can ever read and you would be expelled from class for saying such a false statement. No historical figure have multiple sources of their existence in the way you put it, most have only one and some 2 or 3 at most, they are often historians writing about them hundreds of years after they lived. All other information comes from poetry and tales again hundreds of years after they occured.
Biggest lie you ever invented, letters from historians to the caeser?, lmao ah Noooooo sir sorry dead wrong. No authentic letter exist from one historian to a caeser, Not 1, such letter would be worth 100 million dollars. There are writing depicting letters from this person to that person but we are talking about writings that are written 3-5 hundred years after not the actual letter.
Only 5-6 six historians talked about Jesus, that is almost record breaking huge for that time period. No other historical figure from that era has that many historian talk about them not even Julius Caeser, most of the information gathered from him comes centuries later. Wow, unreal what you are writing here, simply false.
i dont care much for trying to prove the existence of King Tut or Socrates or Caesar. Doesnt really matter to me whether they lived or not. Certainly quite possible that none of them ever did.
But since you care so fucking much about whether or not "Jesus" ever existed, please.. provide me with some evidence. Ill let you know what I think of it.
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You've just jumped from "didn't exist," to "maybe he did exist but wasn't who he is claimed to be." All in less than 10 minutes.
Good to know you give your opinions solid investigation and thought before typing them up on the interwebs.
would you prefer if i claimed to have the answer and stuck to my position no matter what information was presented to me?
personally, i find it extremely disingenuine and intellectually dishonest for a person to have a strong opinion on such a subject. if you have absolutely no personal experience with something, then what the fuck are you basing your opinion on? certainly you dont have enough evidence at hand in order to really know one way or the other.
anyways, i never said jesus didnt exist. how the fuck would i know that? the guy supposedly lived over 2,000 years ago. thats about 100 times my age. if i claimed to have some knowledge about the subject i would be a damned fool.
also, i didnt say there was a chance he misrepreseented himself. (" maybe he did exist but wasnt who he said he was" ) what i said was maybe he did exist but just wasnt who he is portrayed to be in the new testament. remember, that book was not written by jesus. that book was written by other men and done so decades after he supposedly died. those men could have exaggerated, misrepresented, or just misinterpreted jesus. plus, who says we know what they really wrote anyways? the christian church dominated global politics for like a thousand years and could have easily messed with the writings in order to take a regular man who taught about love and was killed for it and turned him into a magical godly figure who commands submission and worship./
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People love to say this. But the truth is if you look at ancient history, Christianity led to or played a major role in many of our present day advancements in human rights, including among them the charity or "welfare system" that I am sure many getbiggers rely upon, and better conditions for homosexuals (a fact that grates many anti-christian homosexuals enormously).
dont confuse correlation with causation. furthermore, dont mistakenly believe that in the absence of one type of causation that another form of causation wouldnt have arisen in its place and resulting in similar or better consequences.
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i dont care much for trying to prove the existence of King Tut or Socrates or Caesar. Doesnt really matter to me whether they lived or not. Certainly quite possible that none of them ever did.
But since you care so fucking much about whether or not "Jesus" ever existed, please.. provide me with some evidence. Ill let you know what I think of it.
You simply don't get it do you?
When it comes to historical figures, there is no evidence in absolute terms, no one can be absolutely proven to have existed. It is only what we choice to accept as evidence at most, however archaeology has proven that 99% of historical figures that are documented are in fact real figures, Why?
Very simple logic here. You have 1 in 50 who can read and you have 1 in 300 who can write during ancient days furthermore one who documented historical facts would have been 1 in ten thousand. So a writer was truly a wealthy position and charged big dollars for his services. A writer would have been a millionaire back in antiquity. So hardly the type of person that would be hired to write gibberish. So when you have one historian that documents a historical figure, by university standards, they are accepted as a true person.
The exception to these rules are poems and mythology and folk lore but these are obvious and can easily be distinguished.
Now we have Tacitus who wrote about Augustus Caesar and his work is taught in major Universities across the globe. Tacitus also wrote about Jesus and other historical figures as well.
See I do not care what you think personally or what you believe but you mislead everyone reading this thread by saying that other historical figures have way more evidence or written work about them or have more primary sources of evidence towards their existence and this is unacceptable. Nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus having been mentioned by nearly ten historical figures very close in time to his existence is as good as it gets as primary source of evidence towards someones existence.
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tbombz does indeed "get it". He just does as so many others do and picks and chooses based upon his own desires. Nothing wrong with that really, but then there is nothing right with it either.
People believe what they choose to believe and quite often because they like or dislike what they hear or read, i.e., how it affects them personally. The truth of the matter is this: Only the dead know what to expect when it comes to what lies beyond life. And they are not talking.
As for Muslims, well they may not deny the existence of Jesus of Nazareth but they most definitely ignore Him. To follow Muhammad is false and not of Christ. Don't like that fact? Too bad. Islam is definitely not Christianity and Christianity is not Islam. Islam means to submit.
Never.
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tbombz does indeed "get it". He just does as so many others do and picks and chooses based upon his own desires. Nothing wrong with that really, but then there is nothing right with it either.
People believe what they choose to believe and quite often because they like or dislike what they hear or read, i.e., how it affects them personally. The truth of the matter is this: Only the dead know what to expect when it comes to what lies beyond life. And they are not talking.
As for Muslims, well they may not deny the existence of Jesus of Nazareth but they most definitely ignore Him. To follow Muhammad is false and not of Christ. Don't like that fact? Too bad. Islam is definitely not Christianity and Christianity is not Islam. Islam means to submit.
Never.
Very strong points there^^^
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tbombz does indeed "get it". He just does as so many others do and picks and chooses based upon his own desires. Nothing wrong with that really, but then there is nothing right with it either.
People believe what they choose to believe and quite often because they like or dislike what they hear or read, i.e., how it affects them personally. The truth of the matter is this: Only the dead know what to expect when it comes to what lies beyond life. And they are not talking.
As for Muslims, well they may not deny the existence of Jesus of Nazareth but they most definitely ignore Him. To follow Muhammad is false and not of Christ. Don't like that fact? Too bad. Islam is definitely not Christianity and Christianity is not Islam. Islam means to submit.Never.
Submit unto whom?
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So. 'No' to Mayan Apocalypse and now 'Yes' to Jesus Christ!? I want the old Wiggs back. This new one has more holes in his head than a lb of Swiss cheese.
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tbombz does indeed "get it". He just does as so many others do and picks and chooses based upon his own desires. Nothing wrong with that really, but then there is nothing right with it either.
People believe what they choose to believe and quite often because they like or dislike what they hear or read, i.e., how it affects them personally. The truth of the matter is this: Only the dead know what to expect when it comes to what lies beyond life. And they are not talking.
As for Muslims, well they may not deny the existence of Jesus of Nazareth but they most definitely ignore Him. To follow Muhammad is false and not of Christ. Don't like that fact? Too bad. Islam is definitely not Christianity and Christianity is not Islam. Islam means to submit.
Never.
Your post doesn't make any sense. If no one knows what happens after death, then how do you know Islam is wrong and Christianity is right?
Face it, neither of you know. You just don't want to admit to it.
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We have documents of antiquity, we have archeological finds validating biblical scripture, we have the testimony of those that knew and lived with Christ and we have the testimony of millions today that form his body of believers. Therein lies the proof....the transformative power of the Holy Spirit that came at Pentecost!! A relationship with Jesus Christ goes beyond online debates and affirms biblical scripture. A relationship with Jesus Christ and the undeniable proof of his existence is found completely in the tangible presence and interaction with the Holy Spirit made manifest in the body of believers that claim him as Savior.
Romans 10:9
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
It's a this point that the Holy Spirit can begin a tremendous, tranforming work in your life.....did in mine!! I experience the awesome presence of the Lord almost on a daily basis. Call on the powerful name of the Jesus, Yeshua, Immaneul and begin to experience the reality and power of the Lord!
Many will dismiss this as nonsense and my heart bursts for those that do, but those with courage enough to claim him as Lord I celebrate for you and with you!
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Amen.
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Submit unto whom?
The will of Allah. And if you refuse to submit?
Ask a Muslim or better still, ask a former Muslim. Those are more difficult to find.
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People believe what they choose to believe and quite often because they like or dislike what they hear or read, i.e., how it affects them personally. The truth of the matter is this: Only the dead know what to expect when it comes to what lies beyond life. And they are not talking.
Your post doesn't make any sense. If no one knows what happens after death, then how do you know Islam is wrong and Christianity is right?
Face it, neither of you know. You just don't want to admit to it.
I have quoted above, the words I believe you were looking for. They were of course, "hidden" in my original post but I have waved my magic wand of Christendom so that you can see them clearly. I also removed the other bothersome text that made them so difficult to see and emboldened them so that they stand out even more. ;)
Look at them closely now that you can easily view them. ;) You are wrong in your poorly chosen assumption as quoted above. I choose to believe what I believe. You choose to not believe. I much prefer the hope of something more over your apparent (by virtue of your very obvious smugness) "certainty" of absolute nothingness.
I neither pity nor admire you. Just because I choose to wear shoes does not mean you have to. I am not here to sell you shoes. I could not care less if you wear shoes. I am not a shoe salesman. I do not care about your feet. Your feet are your own and mean nothing to me. You are on your own.
In other words you are dealing with a Christian that refuses to pray for you. That does not care one whit if you accept Christ or not. That realizes that not all will be saved but for those that do not believe, being saved is a fallacy to them ergo it means nothing to them. They are not ignorant, neither are they stupid or heathen. They are intelligent, well meaning people who choose to believe differently than do I. I think you are among them and are just trying to be clever with someone that has a faith you do not share and feel obliged to make fun of.
Get over yourself. You have much to offer the world but the truth of the matter is there are plenty of smug folks on both sides of this coin. If you think I am treating you poorly then you fail to notice that I am just giving you what you gave me and from what I have read from you here, you do the same to others. I am merely giving it back to you, but nicely.
In the event I have further confused you, please allow me to wave my magic wand of Christendom and clear things up all the more for you.
I admit that I do not know what awaits any of us (I believe I pretty much said that in the aforementioned magically shown words of mine quoted above). Only the dead do and they are not talking. They are not talking because, well, because as pirates would say, "Dead men tell no tales".
Arrrrrrrrrrrgh!
Is that Disney enough? ;D
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You simply don't get it do you?
When it comes to historical figures, there is no evidence in absolute terms, no one can be absolutely proven to have existed. It is only what we choice to accept as evidence at most, however archaeology has proven that 99% of historical figures that are documented are in fact real figures, Why?
Very simple logic here. You have 1 in 50 who can read and you have 1 in 300 who can write during ancient days furthermore one who documented historical facts would have been 1 in ten thousand. So a writer was truly a wealthy position and charged big dollars for his services. A writer would have been a millionaire back in antiquity. So hardly the type of person that would be hired to write gibberish. So when you have one historian that documents a historical figure, by university standards, they are accepted as a true person.
The exception to these rules are poems and mythology and folk lore but these are obvious and can easily be distinguished.
Now we have Tacitus who wrote about Augustus Caesar and his work is taught in major Universities across the globe. Tacitus also wrote about Jesus and other historical figures as well.
See I do not care what you think personally or what you believe but you mislead everyone reading this thread by saying that other historical figures have way more evidence or written work about them or have more primary sources of evidence towards their existence and this is unacceptable. Nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus having been mentioned by nearly ten historical figures very close in time to his existence is as good as it gets as primary source of evidence towards someones existence.
no pictures, paintings, or statues made of jesus while he was supposedly alive. the images of his face that do exist were made after his supposed life and vary widely in their descritption of his physical appearance.
with other historical figures of such celebrity there are numerous images very similar in their description of physical appearance and created during the supposed life of said figures.
that's just one thing.
in all, I agree with you about the fact that we cant know for certain if any history is actually correct. that would encourage me to be questionable of all history, not accept all questionable history. ;)
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We have documents of antiquity, we have archeological finds validating biblical scripture, we have the testimony of those that knew and lived with Christ and we have the testimony of millions today that form his body of believers. Therein lies the proof....the transformative power of the Holy Spirit that came at Pentecost!! A relationship with Jesus Christ goes beyond online debates and affirms biblical scripture. A relationship with Jesus Christ and the undeniable proof of his existence is found completely in the tangible presence and interaction with the Holy Spirit made manifest in the body of believers that claim him as Savior.
Romans 10:9
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
It's a this point that the Holy Spirit can begin a tremendous, tranforming work in your life.....did in mine!! I experience the awesome presence of the Lord almost on a daily basis. Call on the powerful name of the Jesus, Yeshua, Immaneul and begin to experience the reality and power of the Lord!
Many will dismiss this as nonsense and my heart bursts for those that do, but those with courage enough to claim him as Lord I celebrate for you and with you!
did it ever occur to you that you could be sorely mistaken about the existence of jesus and that god simply recognized that you were sincerely trying to become a more enlightened person and allowed yoru heart to open up even though you falsely believe in the story of jesus ?
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I have quoted above, the words I believe you were looking for. They were of course, "hidden" in my original post but I have waved my magic wand of Christendom so that you can see them clearly. I also removed the other bothersome text that made them so difficult to see and emboldened them so that they stand out even more. ;)
Look at them closely now that you can easily view them. ;) You are wrong in your poorly chosen assumption as quoted above. I choose to believe what I believe. You choose to not believe. I much prefer the hope of something more over your apparent (by virtue of your very obvious smugness) "certainty" of absolute nothingness.
I neither pity nor admire you. Just because I choose to wear shoes does not mean you have to. I am not here to sell you shoes. I could not care less if you wear shoes. I am not a shoe salesman. I do not care about your feet. Your feet are your own and mean nothing to me. You are on your own.
In other words you are dealing with a Christian that refuses to pray for you. That does not care one whit if you accept Christ or not. That realizes that not all will be saved but for those that do not believe, being saved is a fallacy to them ergo it means nothing to them. They are not ignorant, neither are they stupid or heathen. They are intelligent, well meaning people who choose to believe differently than do I. I think you are among them and are just trying to be clever with someone that has a faith you do not share and feel obliged to make fun of.
Get over yourself. You have much to offer the world but the truth of the matter is there are plenty of smug folks on both sides of this coin. If you think I am treating you poorly then you fail to notice that I am just giving you what you gave me and from what I have read from you here, you do the same to others. I am merely giving it back to you, but nicely.
In the event I have further confused you, please allow me to wave my magic wand of Christendom and clear things up all the more for you.
I admit that I do not know what awaits any of us (I believe I pretty much said that in the aforementioned magically shown words of mine quoted above). Only the dead do and they are not talking. They are not talking because, well, because as pirates would say, "Dead men tell no tales".
Arrrrrrrrrrrgh!
Is that Disney enough? ;D
if you truly believe in the story of jesus Christ then your attitude of indifference about the fate of a soul is blasphemous
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if you truly believe in the story of jesus Christ then your attitude of indifference about the fate of a soul is blasphemous
Actually, I am honest. You are really stupid. I don't mince words. John told me about you. He said you were stupid and I doubted
him. Never again.
You're not making a fool of yourself, you really are a fool. Go take more pictures of your silly physique and talk about how you enjoy having men with large penises
perform anal intercourse on you. Face it, that is what you do here.
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no pictures, paintings, or statues made of jesus while he was supposedly alive. the images of his face that do exist were made after his supposed life and vary widely in their descritption of his physical appearance.
with other historical figures of such celebrity there are numerous images very similar in their description of physical appearance and created during the supposed life of said figures.
that's just one thing.
in all, I agree with you about the fact that we cant know for certain if any history is actually correct. that would encourage me to be questionable of all history, not accept all questionable history. ;)
Pictures and painting are all made up, non authentic. I will give you statues though, yes statues are very strong evidence but no more definitive then a manuscript. We do have statues of some Pharaohs and statues of Pompei, Cleopatra and Alexander but the list is short in that regards, but keep in mind there are more statues of fictional characters then real characters, example- Zeus, Poseidon, etc....
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Actually, I am honest. You are really stupid. I don't mince words. John told me about you. He said you were stupid and I doubted
him. Never again.
You're not making a fool of yourself, you really are a fool. Go take more pictures of your silly physique and talk about how you enjoy having men with large penises
perform anal intercourse on you. Face it, that is what you do here.
thank you for honestly representing yourself. it makes my job of arguing against your beliefs that much easier, as people see that such a devout 'christian' who claims to have such strong belief in jesus, is still SO SO SO SO far away from being a good human being. and thus, it reveals to everyone that the path to enlightenment certainly isn't expedited when one "comes to jesus" ;D ;D ;D
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People who know about god have special powers.
When will the rest of you understand that?
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did it ever occur to you that you could be sorely mistaken about the existence of jesus and that god simply recognized that you were sincerely trying to become a more enlightened person and allowed yoru heart to open up even though you falsely believe in the story of jesus ?
Many, many different scenarios have gone through my mind and some have plagued me in my recent past (ex: "Am I really a Christian? Do I really believe all of this? etc...), but today I have no more doubts about my God and Lord and savior Jesus Christ. My life has been changed completely, but I give all credit, praise and glory to him. Jesus Christ has changed me and I love him for it. Not a thing special about me (just a regular man), I simply chose to surrender myself to him and give my life for him and he's revealed himself to me time and time again. He's lifted the veil from over my eyes and my life has been set anew! Can do the same for any that desire to know him and belief in him.
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People who know about god have special powers.
When will the rest of you understand that?
What kind of special powers?
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People who know about god have special powers.
When will the rest of you understand that?
Hey weren't you that guy that told the other guy to grow up the other day ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I think that post will haunt you forever ;)
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Many, many different scenarios have gone through my mind and some have plagued me in my recent past (ex: "Am I really a Christian? Do I really believe all of this? etc...), but today I have no more doubts about my God and Lord and savior Jesus Christ. My life has been changed completely, but I give all credit, praise and glory to him. Jesus Christ has changed me and I love him for it. Not a thing special about me (just a regular man), I simply chose to surrender myself to him and give my life for him and he's revealed himself to me time and time again. He's lifted the veil from over my eyes and my life has been set anew! Can do the same for any that desire to know him and belief in him.
I think you are just scared. Remember, a just god would accept you anyway.
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I think you are just scared. Remember, a just god would accept you anyway.
This is where you guys presume to know God and think that you have the answer to what he will do. No one is just and we all sin and all come short of the glory of God, So by deeds and works alone we all fail and yes that include mother Theresa. This is why Jesus died for our sins so that we have only but to accept `salvation`and not strive toward it to fail miserably.
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I think you are just scared. Remember, a just god would accept you anyway.
What is it you think I'm scared of?
Often times, as a believer, I'm accussed of being scared or weak because of my belief in God. Fear of death is the idea most frequently noted. Sometimes it's fear of reality or fear of failing in life and needing God as crutch (or excuse) for failure.
I do have fear....fear and respect for a perfectly just God. That perfect justice speaks to his qualities of righteousness, sinlessness and lawfulness. Our imperfection and sinfulness can only be aligned with his perfect nature if we accept his sacrifice and payment for our sins on Calvary's cross. That acceptance you speak of is contingent upon his sacrifice paying our sin debt and our acceptance of him as our risen Lord and Savior. We acknowledge that we are sinners, recognize that our sins can only be washed clean by his shed blood on the cross and recognize that his risen from the dead. The perfect God became the perfect man that became the perfect sacrifice for our sin permanently reconciling our imperfection with his perfection.
Romans 10:9
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
I recognize that I am a sinner, that I am accountable for my sinful choices and that salvation through Christ is the only way to be forgiven for that sin. I love him and thank him for what he did for me.
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Many, many different scenarios have gone through my mind and some have plagued me in my recent past (ex: "Am I really a Christian? Do I really believe all of this? etc...), but today I have no more doubts about my God and Lord and savior Jesus Christ. My life has been changed completely, but I give all credit, praise and glory to him. Jesus Christ has changed me and I love him for it. Not a thing special about me (just a regular man), I simply chose to surrender myself to him and give my life for him and he's revealed himself to me time and time again. He's lifted the veil from over my eyes and my life has been set anew! Can do the same for any that desire to know him and belief in him.
what if its actually god doing the revealing, and your just mistakenly thinking its "jesus", and "jesus" is nothing more than a folktale (albeit a beautiful one).
;)
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what if its actually god doing the revealing, and your just mistakenly thinking its "jesus", and "jesus" is nothing more than a folktale (albeit a beautiful one).
;)
Ah, but that's where the Holy Spirit fills in all the gaps in my life!!
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Ah, but that's where the Holy Spirit fills in all the gaps in my life!!
You are a big strong, good looking fella (no homo) but do you think you would feel that way if you were cursed with a broken down body? It's easy to believe that a higher power is looking out for you when things are going your way but what if you were born to a crack whore and your father was an abusive drunk who like to use you as a soccer ball every day? Would you still feel the same? There is a young girl who lives near me and she has been in a wheel chair from the day she was born. She is a young teenager now, I see her from time to time in her wheel chair with a friend, She is all bandaged up except her face, she is quite beatiful, But I literally have to bite my tongue so as to not break out in tears when I see her. She will never be able to have that first dance or probably even a first kiss. All that is around the corner for her is pain and misery. What did she do to deserve such a fate? Whe didn't god smile upon her like he did you?
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You are a big strong, good looking fella (no homo) but do you think you would feel that way if you were cursed with a broken down body? It's easy to believe that a higher power is looking out for you when things are going your way but what if you were born to a crack whore and your father was an abusive drunk who like to use you as a soccer ball every day? Would you still feel the same? There is a young girl who lives near me and she has been in a wheel chair from the day she was born. She is a young teenager now, I see her from time to time in her wheel chair with a friend, She is all bandaged up except her face, she is quite beatiful, But I literally have to bite my tongue so as to not break out in tears when I see her. She will never be able to have that first dance or probably even a first kiss. All that is around the corner for her is pain and misery. What did she do to deserve such a fate? Whe didn't god smile upon her like he did you?
There are millions living shitty lives and in poverty with barely enough to eat and are suffering tremendously that still give thanks to the Lord.
My Mother is diagnosed with schizophrenia and literally can not leave her house, also has arthritis and migraines, just a wreck. Her life everyday is wake up, do nothing all day, sit on a couch and just literally do nothing. She is the happiest person ever when we visit her, for me it`s about twice a week. Anyway she praises God everyday and is the happiest person I ever known. I asked her why she is not sad or anything and she replies, Nothing matters cause God loves her.
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There are millions living shitty lives and in poverty with barely enough to eat and are suffering tremendously that still give thanks to the Lord.
My Mother is diagnosed with schizophrenia and literally can not leave her house, also has arthritis and migraines, just a wreck. Her life everyday is wake up, do nothing all day, sit on a couch and just literally do nothing. She is the happiest person ever when we visit her, for me it`s about twice a week. Anyway she praises God everyday and is the happiest person I ever known. I asked her why she is not sad or anything and she replies, Nothing matters cause God loves her.
I would say that for such as your mother and many, many others like her (and worse) they are content as they have hope. This hope is born of the promise of Jesus of Nazareth. This hope cannot be taken from them. It may be that even such as these being only human, could one day lose that hope. But salvation through Him is never lost. Given freely, but never taken back.
I fail to see how anyone would make fun of such a gift. Even were it false, the gift of hope for a better eternity does no one any harm.
Having said that I know many atheists that hold no ill will for those that truly follow the Christ. They do not wish to convert anyone to their line of thinking. They do not want to force women to be subject to the whim of mindless men. They are not compelled by fear and ritual to bow and scrape several times a day in endless, droning prayers. They have never held an inquisition nor have they cut off anyone's head with a dull butter knife in a mindless jihad. Neither do they bugger their young boys or bury their women up to their necks in the ground prior to stoning them to death while conveniently forgetting that adultery takes two...
They do not desire that everyone on the planet submit to their way of thinking. Or die.
Those that do are following the orders of men and not any God or god. Men would take hope and make it less. Hopeless. If any choose not to believe that Christ is the Messiah that is their choice. They should never be offended that those that follow Him believe that punishment awaits those that deny Jesus, for if they truly believe that Christ was nothing and that God is false, well, then they have nothing to fear in that regard. Ever.
Like a vampire that somehow rises in the night and walks unharmed through a graveyard of crosses, some choose to be offended at their convenience. Get over it. Unless the long awaited (and I am tired of waiting ;D) rapture of the Church occurs, we are not going away anytime soon. ;D
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You are a big strong, good looking fella (no homo) but do you think you would feel that way if you were cursed with a broken down body? It's easy to believe that a higher power is looking out for you when things are going your way but what if you were born to a crack whore and your father was an abusive drunk who like to use you as a soccer ball every day? Would you still feel the same? There is a young girl who lives near me and she has been in a wheel chair from the day she was born. She is a young teenager now, I see her from time to time in her wheel chair with a friend, She is all bandaged up except her face, she is quite beatiful, But I literally have to bite my tongue so as to not break out in tears when I see her. She will never be able to have that first dance or probably even a first kiss. All that is around the corner for her is pain and misery. What did she do to deserve such a fate? Whe didn't god smile upon her like he did you?
Hey Orion,
First off, a-thank you! I do feel particularly handsome today LOL!!
I’d like to share with you some wonderful men of God that I’ve had the pleasure of hearing speak a few times in the recent years.
The first is Nick Vujicic:
The second is Ken Freeman:
Again, both are wonderful men of God that have had tremendous obstacles set before them by the very God they serve. These men live and breathe to spread the message of salvation through Jesus Christ and love others.
As for MOS, my testimony certainly isn’t nearly as powerful or moving as theirs, but I do understand what it means to be broken down. Back in July 2010 I took my 6 month old daughter upstairs in our home and placed her in her crib for a nap. While coming back down the stairs I had some sort of misstep and fell down the stairs. I fell in such a way that my left knee smashed the edge of the bottom stair and I tore my leg quad off my knee and tore the muscles around the knee as well. Spent two weeks at home completely torn up before I was able to be diagnosed for surgery, but by the grace of God was surgically repaired shortly thereafter. Two weeks after surgery I was rushed to the ER at our local hospital because I felt like life was leaving me. All strength had left me, all color had left me, I was not eating and barely using the bathroom. I had become sad, despondent and suicidal…I was a mess. Turns out the docs discovered an enormous pulmonary embollism (a saddle type) and blood clots in my legs due to my surgical immobility. The doctors prepared my family for the worst and told them I was dying, but that they would do all they can to treat me quickly. The docs and nurses on staff had not seen an embolism that large or severe in their careers. Prayers from friends and family went up and my outlook was bleak, but I spent only 2.5 days in intensive care and by the grace of God the staff of doctors and nurses got me outta the hospital in a week. Then it was months of physical therapy, 2 a day blood thinner shots in the stomach for months and tons of doctor follow-ups.
Today I have a clean bill of health, but my left leg will never be the same. Praise God I can walk and serve him though!! That was a brutal personal journey, but was exactly what I needed. I needed to be broken to the ground and have one foot (or maybe both feet) placed in the grave before I fully surrendered to the Lord and allow him to work in my life. During my stay in the progressive care unit of the hospital, in the solitude of my hospital room, I lifted arms and hands to the Lord and surrendered to him completely. In that instant the presence of the Lord filled that hospital room and from the tips of my toes in my left leg to the top of my surgical incision began a tingling sensation. I knew at that point I would be healed and my life was both saved and changed. It was a small miracle in my life, but it changed and shaped me. I give all glory and praise to my Lord and Savior because it is all about it him!
My heart breaks for the girl you mentioned and I hear and read about tragedy after tragedy befalling men, women and children all around me today in this country and countries around the world due to the evil choices of people. That’s why the power of the Holy Spirit is so important because it transforms lives in powerful, positive, loving ways. I always claimed to be a believer as a young kid, but only as a young man have a I truly began to understand surrender to the love of God in my life that I try and express to others. No matter what we’ve done in our lives, we can be forgiven the Holy Spirit can indwell us and transform us in powerful ways. This life is not about our works or rituals. It is about the redemptive love of Jesus Christ and his will for our lives!! Today I have nothing but full assurance in the heart.
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You know the irony of this thread?
You are wishing 'god' (or so you say) happy birthday. Which means god was 'born'.
Ironic indeed.
The funnier thing is, Jesus was not even born on December 25th. It was a day chosen to compete with the pagan romans who worshipped Saturn, celebrated Saturnalia, etc... The winter solstice.
Jesus according to Muslim and Christian scholars was born in the summer months perhaps somewhere in August.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Wenceslas_Hollar_-_The_Greek_gods._Saturn.jpg/300px-Wenceslas_Hollar_-_The_Greek_gods._Saturn.jpg)
(http://pbmo.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/saturn-by-paul-bommer1.png?w=370)
(http://x44.xanga.com/143f064459432224543848/b176438005.jpg)
(http://www.crystalinks.com/saturncronus.jpg)
(http://www.egodeath.com/images/egodeatharticle/HighRes/SaturnChariot_HiRes.jpg)
(http://api.ning.com/files/enQTXg1eUky6AVEz9CkUQt86UIIL2ejbPt7AUc4KQodYLZ12WlLPRu20r5XjZv*4wYuf54OvUF-ExuLeZiW2ciRM7C8aJz7I/Rubens_saturn.jpg)
This is Saturn the 'main god' of the pagan romans. He used to eat children, ride a sled, have his lil throne, etc... etc...
Notice also his symbol a cross S
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BkXoBNcT_rQ/Tv2PIQGiP5I/AAAAAAAAB_U/Ge06MTbbDyA/s1600/02.PNG)
(http://cassini-huygens.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features/saturn-story/images/roman-god-saturn-th.jpg)
(http://www.wordsources.info/symbol-saturn.gif)
(http://www.wordsources.info/planet-saturn.gif)
Shocked huh?
(http://astrolibrary.org/images/saturn-god.jpg)
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The renewal of light and the coming of the new year was celebrated in the later Roman Empire at the Dies Natalis of Sol Invictus, the "Birthday of the Unconquerable Sun," on December 25.
^ Robert A. Kaster, Macrobius: Saturnalia, Books 1–2 (Loeb Classical Library, 2011), note on p. 16.
(http://irregulartimes.com/saturntheoriginalreasonfortheseasonthumbnail.png)
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Wenceslas_Hollar_-_The_Greek_gods._Saturn.jpg/300px-Wenceslas_Hollar_-_The_Greek_gods._Saturn.jpg)
(http://pbmo.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/saturn-by-paul-bommer1.png?w=370)
(http://x44.xanga.com/143f064459432224543848/b176438005.jpg)
(http://www.crystalinks.com/saturncronus.jpg)
(http://www.egodeath.com/images/egodeatharticle/HighRes/SaturnChariot_HiRes.jpg)
(http://api.ning.com/files/enQTXg1eUky6AVEz9CkUQt86UIIL2ejbPt7AUc4KQodYLZ12WlLPRu20r5XjZv*4wYuf54OvUF-ExuLeZiW2ciRM7C8aJz7I/Rubens_saturn.jpg)
This is Saturn the 'main god' of the pagan romans. He used to eat children, ride a sled, have his lil throne, etc... etc...
Notice also his symbol a cross S
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BkXoBNcT_rQ/Tv2PIQGiP5I/AAAAAAAAB_U/Ge06MTbbDyA/s1600/02.PNG)
(http://cassini-huygens.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features/saturn-story/images/roman-god-saturn-th.jpg)
(http://www.wordsources.info/symbol-saturn.gif)
(http://www.wordsources.info/planet-saturn.gif)
Shocked huh?
(http://astrolibrary.org/images/saturn-god.jpg)
spine chilling! even more so when you think people have thier kids sit on the lap of the who is suppose to EAT THEM! it all blows my mind!
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When I first saw this it kind of blew me away more than the other facts:
(http://www.tmearth.net/planets/symbols/saturn.png)
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It's also quite interesting how saint nicholas is viewed in germany as eating children and it was one of the tales to scare misbehaving children. Aka the original 'santa clause'.. aka really.... saturn the roman pagan god who also had a sled, who ate children, etc... etc...
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THIS LAST ONE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE!
best part of these vids? THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM!! SO YOU CANT AND SAY "MUSLIM PROPAGANDA". these are Christians themselves saying CHRISTMAS IS IDOLATRY!
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Christians celebrate Christmas on December 25th in order to replace the recurring historical pagan rituals occurring at that time...Saturnalia, Winter Solstice celebration, birth of Mithra, etc... Take these pagan celebrations and replace them with the recognition and celebration of the birth of our God, Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. No one knows the exact date of Christ's birth (some say it occurred in the Spring others the Fall). I'm not aware of anyone today celebrating the birth of Mithra, Saturn or the Winter Solstice....most people pay homage to materialism.
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It's also quite interesting how saint nicholas is viewed in germany as eating children and it was one of the tales to scare misbehaving children. Aka the original 'santa clause'.. aka really.... saturn the roman pagan god who also had a sled, who ate children, etc... etc...
I could care less as I don't celebrate "Saint Nicolas" nor any other saint. What is intredasting is that your fearless leader was a liar, misogynist and pedophile. Yet still you follow his ways. Isn't it said to be true that your so-called prophet did the following "Santa Claus" type flying moment, albeit not with reindeer nor presents for the kiddies -
In the year 621, at the age of 51 years old, Mohammed flew on the magical Winged-Horse of Fire which he called Burak, which literally means White Horse but seen as "Thunder-Lightning". The full version of this most memorable moment has been preserved in "The Bokhari" (Vol.15, p.3615) one of the made up Islamic Scriptures.
How comical. Santa Claus for Muslims, but again minus the gifts and no reindeer just a really cool version of Pegasus. Mohammed is no better than Joseph Smith of the Latter Day Saints, aka "Mormons". They were both in for their neighbors wives and for profit.
You follow a vile death dealing maniac. As bad as any Pope of the time and more than a few since.
Others here are apparently too scared or too PC to call you on this. For the record, Catholicism sucks almost as much as your filthy middle eastern ways.
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Christians celebrate Christmas on December 25th in order to replace the recurring historical pagan rituals occurring at that time...Saturnalia, Winter Solstice celebration, birth of Mithra, etc... Take these pagan celebrations and replace them with the recognition and celebration of the birth of our God, Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. No one knows the exact date of Christ's birth (some say it occurred in the Spring others the Fall). I'm not aware of anyone today celebrating the birth of Mithra, Saturn or the Winter Solstice....most people pay homage to materialism.
So you're not really following Jesus, but invented matters that the pagan Romans did. You just scratched out the labels and relabeled them then claim it's from Jesus.
Kind of like the cross and the pagan saturn god symbol:
(http://www.tmearth.net/planets/symbols/saturn.png)
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So you're not really following Jesus, but invented matters that the pagan Romans did. You just scratched out the labels and relabeled them then claim it's from Jesus.
Kind of like the cross and the pagan saturn god symbol:
(http://www.tmearth.net/planets/symbols/saturn.png)
Since no others will call you on your garbage... How's that flying Mohammed's My Little Pony story coming along? Do you bugger other men and boys because women are denied your for sex unless you are married to one? So many of your fellow Muslims do just that and it is sanctioned by your religious leaders. Homosexuality is rampant in the middle east. Just like the Catholic Church, you are turgid with pedophilia and your clergy condone it.
If we are to believe that morality is from God (not that pile of poo you call "Allah") then it is a certainty that immorality is from men. Men like your false prophet, Mohammed. Men like the Popes. Men who do that which is unseemly and call it good because they claim "God" told them to do so. What they do is immoral. You perverse generation!
Here is wisdom for any who will listen -
So many desire immortality and like you and your false prophet, settle for immorality.
Christ was no ordinary "man". He is Messiah.
Mohammed? He is a mess.
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Surah 4:171
O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, ...
Surah 5:75
The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. ...
Acs 2:22
"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
John 3:2
He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
“And We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear miracles” (Quran 2:87)
“When the disciples said: O Jesus, son of Mary! Is your Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven? He said: Observe your duty to God, if ye are true believers. They said: We desire to eat of it and our hearts be at rest, and that We may know that you have spoken truth to us, and that We may be witnesses thereof. Jesus, son of Mary, said: 'O God, our Lord, send down for us a Table laden with food out of heaven, that shall be for us a recurring festival, the first and last of us, and a miracle from You. And provide us our sustenance, for You are the best of providers!” (Quran 5:112-114)
“He shall speak to people while still in the cradle, and in manhood, and he shall be from the righteous.” (Quran 3:46)
“I also heal the blind and the leper.” (Quran 3:49)
“…and I bring to life the dead, by the permission of God.” (Quran 3:49)
I can go on.
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Also for your information, Jesus did not speak Hebrew, did not speak Latin, did not speak koine-greek as the new testament is written in. Jesus spoke Aramaic in which you say God: Elah
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
So you just called God Almighty poo. You'll answer for that on the day of judgment unless you repent.
Christian Arabs also call God Allah because that's what it means.
You're a sad individual.
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Surah 4:171
O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, ...
Surah 5:75
The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. ...
Acs 2:22
"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. You are predictably foolish.
John 3:2
He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
“And We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear miracles” (Quran 2:87)
“When the disciples said: O Jesus, son of Mary! Is your Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven? He said: Observe your duty to God, if ye are true believers. They said: We desire to eat of it and our hearts be at rest, and that We may know that you have spoken truth to us, and that We may be witnesses thereof. Jesus, son of Mary, said: 'O God, our Lord, send down for us a Table laden with food out of heaven, that shall be for us a recurring festival, the first and last of us, and a miracle from You. And provide us our sustenance, for You are the best of providers!” (Quran 5:112-114)
“He shall speak to people while still in the cradle, and in manhood, and he shall be from the righteous.” (Quran 3:46)
“I also heal the blind and the leper.” (Quran 3:49)
“…and I bring to life the dead, by the permission of God.” (Quran 3:49)
I can go on.
Your book is that of a common, ignorant, Bedouin pervert and is not worthy of being called "holy". I shake the dust of you and your filth from my shoes.
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Suit yourself and be a lost and ignorant individual who talks too much with anger and listens little.
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Suit yourself and be a lost and ignorant individual who talks too much with anger and listens little.
I have little tolerance for liars and less for stupid liars. Like you. Go play with your Mohammed action figgers (e.g., the flying "Mohammed My Little Pony"). You do not know anger. If you think being chided for the simple minded liar you are is "anger", you are even more naive than I imagined.
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spine chilling! even more so when you think people have thier kids sit on the lap of the who is suppose to EAT THEM! it all blows my mind!
Does it blow your mind that Muhammad had sex with a little girl also?
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No, not at all. As it was common for people to marry young and have families. Unlike today's societies where people chose to 'settle' at 30 after partying it up half their life.
Different time, different environment, different upbringing.
Come to think of it. Fact: Only one hundred years ago the average age of consent (not even marriage but plain ol fornication) was 10 years of age in the United states of America. The lowest age being 7 in delaware.
And concerning Aisha (ra), she is actually responsible for passing on much of the knowledge of Islam to Muslims as she was the prophet's wife. She had an excellent memory and was an excellent teacher.
She even commanded armies, from amongst other things.
Even now a days, in the east, you will find that girls who are even 7, know how to cook, clean, take care of themselves, and STILL study, have fun, etc... In contrast to girls and boys in the west that can't take care of themselves and sometimes even wipe their own rear.
My grandmother although originally orthodox christian (she also became Muslim in our family) she was married at 16 years of age. "Shocking"? My great grandmother was 12 when she got married. Even more shocking?
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Does it blow your mind that Muhammad had sex with a little girl also?
ohh come on!!! not this petty arugement! this arugment is older then dirt garebare! your a teacher man! I expected a smarter arugment from you!
well too answer this old tired idea:
1. First off the TRUE age of the Prophets last wife isnt 100% confirmed, some say 7 or 9, some say 18.
2. secondly what Ahmed said. remember this was 1400 years ago. things were MUCH diffrent. even in the US the age to get married was MUCH diffrent.
being and english teacher, have you ever read Mr.tucket books by gary paulsen? well the story is about the wild west, and in that story the main character Francis, gets married and im pretty sure has a kid with a very young girl...is there anything worng with that? NO! becuase thats how the culture was at that time!
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ohh come on!!! not this petty arugement! this arugment is older then dirt garebare! your a teacher man! I expected a smarter arugment from you!
well too answer this old tired idea:
1. First off the TRUE age of the Prophets last wife isnt 100% confirmed, some say 7 or 9, some say 18.
2. secondly what Ahmed said. remember this was 1400 years ago. things were MUCH diffrent. even in the US the age to get married was MUCH diffrent.
being and english teacher, have you ever read Mr.tucket books by gary paulsen? well the story is about the wild west, and in that story the main character Francis, gets married and im pretty sure has a kid with a very young girl...is there anything worng with that? NO! becuase thats how the culture was at that time!
Oh, what's that you say? Something from 1400 years ago doesn't apply to today because we have advanced since then?
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Oh, what's that you say? Something from 1400 years ago doesn't apply to today because we have advanced since then?
Your playing with words... That's not what I said. I said don't criticize something just because it's different the today.
People answered the call of nature in the woods and wiped with rocks, someone does that today people will laugh and be disgusted, but did the people of back then do wrong? No! Because that's how they went to the bathroom back in those times. Get it now?
Religion is forever garebare. Back then people rode horses to the mosque to pray, today we drive cars to the mosque for the same reason as the people of yesterday did: to pray to Allah the one true god. Understand now? Who knows 1000 years from now people might find some new way of transportation to get to the same place the guys on horses did for the same reason as they did.
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Your playing with words... That's not what I said. I said don't criticize something just because it's different the today.
People answered the call of nature in the woods and wiped with rocks, someone does that today people will laugh and be disgusted, but did the people of back then do wrong? No! Because that's how they went to the bathroom back in those times. Get it now?
Religion is forever garebare. Back then people rode horses to the mosque to pray, today we drive cars to the mosque for the same reason as the people of yesterday did: to pray to Allah the one true god. Understand now? Who knows 1000 years from now people might find some new way of transportation to get to the same place the guys on horses did for the same reason as they did.
Religion is forever?
Who prayed to Zeus today?
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So you're not really following Jesus, but invented matters that the pagan Romans did. You just scratched out the labels and relabeled them then claim it's from Jesus.
Kind of like the cross and the pagan saturn god symbol:
(http://www.tmearth.net/planets/symbols/saturn.png)
Keep R E A C H I N G ahmed......R E A C H !!!!
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Keep R E A C H I N G ahmed......R E A C H !!!!
There is no reaching. I find the story of God/Jesus no more believable, then the ancients and their stable of gods. You can't prove that Zeus did/does not exist.
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There is no reaching. I find the story of God/Jesus no more believable, then the ancients and their stable of gods. You can't prove that Zeus did/does not exist.
Oh, the stories of the bible are incredible, but the difference between the gods of ancient Egypt, the mediterreanean mystery gods, gods of greek mythology or Allah is the real, tangible, indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers in Jesus Christ. It affirms biblical scripture and has opened my eyes in new, wonderful ways.
Me, I enjoy study and research, but no amount of research, archeological evidence, philosophical discussion, etc....has impacted me like my interaction with the Holy Spirit. That interaction is just awesome and available to all that are willing to accept that Christ died for our sins and that he is the only way to eternal life and forgiveness for sin.
The Holy Spirit takes the unbelievable and makes it personal, tangible and real in the lives of believers! I pray that others can come to know Christ like I have....it's changed my life and I give him glory and praise for it because it's not about me, it's about him.
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Amazing stories like Noah being raped by his son?
Amazing stories if I Recall was it Jacob's wife being raped or sleeping with her son? I forget now but it pretty much says 'it happens' and then full stop no comment.
Amazing stories like David killing a man to sleep with his wife?
Amazing stories like Lot's daughter getting drunk night after night and fornicating with their father?
Amazing stories that command outright rape and pillaging?
Amazing stories like cutting the hand of a woman that gets 'in between two man fighting'
We don't have such stories in Islam as we believe that the prophets and messengers of God were sent as examples for mankind. Not these perverted stories.
Jesus would have called God, Eloh as he spoke Aramaic. Not Jehova. In fact, there is no J even in Hebrew. Jesus is not the name of Jesus (pbuh).
You make the 'unbelivable' because there is no such thing as the 'holy spirit' trinity and all that other jazz.
You circumvent around historical facts.
The trinity was formulated hundreds of years after Jesus (pbuh). Did you know the holy spirit was not even really thought much about until the 4th century?
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Jay P. Green’s Classic Bible Dictionary says about the word trinity, "This is not itself a Biblical term, but was a term coined by Tertullian to refer to this whole concept under one word" (p. 483). The Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature says forthrightly, "Respecting the manner in which the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit make one G-d, the Scripture teaches nothing, since the subject is of such a nature as not to admit of its being explained to us" ("Trinity," p. 553).
This authority is not alone in its insight. Another explains that the whole notion of a Trinity emerged from heated disagreement and dispute: "The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies… The council of Nicaea in 325 stated the crucial formula for that doctrine in its confession that the ‘Son is of the same substance…as the Father,’ even though it said very little about the Holy Spirit…By the end of the 4th century…the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since" (Encyclopaedia Britannica, Trinity).
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Awesome recitation.
hey man of steel check this out, and compare it to the bible story.
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Awesome recitation.
hey man of steel check this out, and compare it to the bible story.
Is it talking about a 4th son that did not go into the ark?
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Is it talking about a 4th son that did not go into the ark?
not sure if its the fourth or not, but its the son, who decided to go ontop the mountin and seek refuge thinking the mountin will save him from the comming flood, even though his father, prophet Noah told him not to.
did you watch the clip? how does it compare?
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Ahmed check this out.
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not sure if its the fourth or not, but its the son, who decided to go ontop the mountin and seek refuge thinking the mountin will save him from the comming flood, even though his father, prophet Noah told him not to.
did you watch the clip? how does it compare?
The Bible mentions 3 sons only but it does not mean he did not have more, other then that for the most part there is no difference, I like the account in the book of Jasher, I think the flood story there gives a better perception and I also believe the book of Jasher to be authentic.
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I am busy right now but I'll post some info on Noah relating to his sons from tafsir later inshAllah when I get the time. We do not reject the biblical accounts, there is just difference on minor details. For example noah being raped by his own son. We do not believe in that.
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I am busy right now but I'll post some info on Noah relating to his sons from tafsir later inshAllah when I get the time. We do not reject the biblical accounts, there is just difference on minor details. For example noah being raped by his own son. We do not believe in that.
Yes please post the differences cause I was under the impression that both accounts do not conflict
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Dear religious people.
I have a question.
Assuming they are mutually exclusive, which would you rank as more important, tradition or truth?
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Dear religious people.
I have a question.
Assuming they are mutually exclusive, which would you rank as more important, tradition or truth?
:)
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Dear religious people.
I have a question.
Assuming they are mutually exclusive, which would you rank as more important, tradition or truth?
Truth, but more specifically the truth of salvation in Christ.
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Dear religious people.
I have a question.
Assuming they are mutually exclusive, which would you rank as more important, tradition or truth?
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Now tell us your point carebear :-\
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Now tell us your point carebear :-\
he dosent have one man, he just likes to create a disturbance.
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Dear religious people.
I have a question.
Assuming they are mutually exclusive, which would you rank as more important, tradition or truth?
Look, I believe I have told you before that I am not, as you say, "religious". There are truths aplenty in this world, both scientific and spiritual.
As before with you, I will ask you a question and perhaps you will favor me with a reply this time.
Which do you find to be more important to your way of life? Making friends or making enemies? Now before you get your atheist panites in a self inflicted wedgie, know that I can relate to not wanting to be friends with everyone. I cannot abide the filth of Islam. Oddly enough I can easily accept that someone would be an Atheist. Atheism for the greater part does no harm. In fact, most any religion does no harm to others.
It is people that do the harming. People.
A great man once told me that the only thing worse than being an asshole is being a whole ass. Islam is filled with the latter. You are on your way to joining that elite group of morons. Prove me wrong.
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You guys do know you're wasting your time and effort arguing with people you cannot convince?
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I think most religious people actually realize what they're saying isn't true.
But they're being rewarded for it from their groups so much that it doesn't much matter.
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I think most religious people actually realize what they're saying isn't true.
But they're being rewarded for it from their groups so much that it doesn't much matter.
Still refuse to answer simple questions? What is wrong with you? Afraid or just insecure?
Get over yourself. There is always something bigger out there. In your case it's your ego. ;)
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You guys do know you're wasting your time and effort arguing with people you cannot convince?
For me, I know others have not made a decision and I think of them when in these discussions. Certainly I would love to see our resident atheists or muslims accepting Christ, but it simply isn't up to me. I continue most conversations for the sake of others that aren't in the discussion.
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For me, I know others have not made a decision and I think of them when in these discussions. Certainly I would love to see our resident atheists or muslims accepting Christ, but it simply isn't up to me. I continue most conversations for the sake of others that aren't in the discussion.
why? you want us muslims to go to hell?
no thanks I rather worship GOD without any partners I am a strict monotheist, not a polytheist.
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why? you want us muslims to go to hell?
no thanks I rather worship GOD without any partners I am a strict monotheist, not a polytheist.
Absolutely I do not want you going to hell, but I also know I cannot lift the veil and lense of Islam from you....it is fully entrenched in who you are now and I have to accept that.
Question: Do you have assurance from Allah that your earthly works are enough to get you into his paradise? Are you doing enough and are you doing it correctly?
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No one has 100% assurance of heaven. If you think so you are delusional.
We have hope and striving. Anyone who says he has 100% assurance he is going to heaven is more than likely not because of his arrogance and being a liar. Does such a person have a written consent and entry ticket straight from God given to their hand? No, only conjecture and wishful thinking. That's exactly what you have when you utter in wishful thinking "I am already saved".
Jews have a similar idea. They believe their race, just being Jewish they go to heaven, and that everyone else will 'perish'.
We all strive to enter heaven by God's mercy and our good deeds. Our deeds alone are not what enter us into heaven but God's mercy. However God is just and will judge people according to their good and bad deeds. Reward and punish justly. Otherwise where is justice?
Is a person who knows and a person who does not know equal? Is a person who is weak and a person who is strong in faith equal? Is a person who kills and rapes equal to one who gives charity and helps the meek? No. It's called justice and responsibility, accountability. Things your trinitarian doctrine does not teach by in fact teaching people just worship a man and you're good to go.
It's a pathetic and arrogant question asked by certain christians because as Muslims we will say no because no one has an absolute gaurantee but you'll come around and say oh but if you become a christian you will be saved and guaranteed. It's for the weak minded. You have nothing but conjecture and wishful thinking.
Only those who work hard towards piety and righteous and submit their will to the creator of all creation will enter heaven by His mercy. Who fear and love Him, obey him and obey his messengers.
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Absolutely I do not want you going to hell, but I also know I cannot lift the veil and lense of Islam from you....it is fully entrenched in who you are now and I have to accept that.
Question: Do you have assurance from Allah that your earthly works are enough to get you into his paradise? Are you doing enough and are you doing it correctly?
Ahmed anwered your question. look at his post.
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No one has 100% assurance of heaven. If you think so you are delusional.
We have hope and striving. Anyone who says he has 100% assurance he is going to heaven is more than likely not because of his arrogance and being a liar. Does such a person have a written consent and entry ticket straight from God given to their hand? No, only conjecture and wishful thinking. That's exactly what you have when you utter in wishful thinking "I am already saved".
Jews have a similar idea. They believe their race, just being Jewish they go to heaven, and that everyone else will 'perish'.
We all strive to enter heaven by God's mercy and our good deeds. Our deeds alone are not what enter us into heaven but God's mercy. However God is just and will judge people according to their good and bad deeds. Reward and punish justly. Otherwise where is justice?
Is a person who knows and a person who does not know equal? Is a person who is weak and a person who is strong in faith equal? Is a person who kills and rapes equal to one who gives charity and helps the meek? No. It's called justice and responsibility, accountability. Things your trinitarian doctrine does not teach by in fact teaching people just worship a man and you're good to go.
It's a pathetic and arrogant question asked by certain christians because as Muslims we will say no because no one has an absolute gaurantee but you'll come around and say oh but if you become a christian you will be saved and guaranteed. It's for the weak minded. You have nothing but conjecture and wishful thinking.
Only those who work hard towards piety and righteous and submit their will to the creator of all creation will enter heaven by His mercy. Who fear and love Him, obey him and obey his messengers.
Good concise summary....thank you.
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I find it extremely arrogant to think good deeds gets you to heaven, we all sin and fall short of the glory of God and the wages of sin is death, this way you can not get you in unless you are perfect without sin. To say you can qualify by deeds is watering down Heaven, like saying it has price and can be purchased like an object. By saying good deeds can get you to Heaven is putting value on Heaven, a limit that we can qualify to achieve. Heaven is sacred, it is Holy and no Human is qualified to set foot on it no matter how much good deeds is done, no matter how kind, or how nice we are, no matter what we do not qualify, to think so is extremely arrogant, to think you are good enough is extremely arrogant.
To dwell in the house of God amongst his Holy angels and claimed that you earned? No way, that is diminishing God and putting boundaries on him.
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I think you missed the part where I said we enter heaven by God's mercy not deeds. However people will be judged by their deeds, rewarded and punished justly.
As Muslims we also say the same thing that we cannot put the equity of heaven or God's mercy to a bunch of deeds. However you are missing the point. You have to earn it with righteousness and the effort.
Are two unequal things equal? No.
And the wages of sin is death is not the words of Jesus but the words of Paul.
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I find it extremely arrogant to think good deeds gets you to heaven, we all sin and fall short of the glory of God and the wages of sin is death, this way you can not get you in unless you are perfect without sin. To say you can qualify by deeds is watering down Heaven, like saying it has price and can be purchased like an object. By saying good deeds can get you to Heaven is putting value on Heaven, a limit that we can qualify to achieve. Heaven is sacred, it is Holy and no Human is qualified to set foot on it no matter how much good deeds is done, no matter how kind, or how nice we are, no matter what we do not qualify, to think so is extremely arrogant, to think you are good enough is extremely arrogant.
To dwell in the house of God amongst his Holy angels and claimed that you earned? No way, that is diminishing God and putting boundaries on him.
with All due respect man, have you not paid attention to anything we have been saying?
No human being can EARN paradise! not even if you become a monk and pray all day or give ALL your wealth in chairty! you still will NEVER be able to even earn a very very small peice of heaven.
it is through Good deeds/belief/repentence that Allah might have mercy on you, hence why Muslims pray 5 times a day praising God and asking for his forgivness. No one is garanted paradise!
Also Allah is the MOST just, he will not wrong ANYONE. you will get what you deserve.
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It's not even that, the whole point of deeds is JUSTICE, how can two unequal be equal? A criminal vs a pious man? That's the bottom line. People will be judged according to their deeds, rewarded and punished rightly justly.
But, entering heaven is absolutely God's mercy.
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Salman Al-Farisi reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said, “Verily, Allah has one hundred portions of mercy; because of one there is compassion between creation, and ninety-nine are reserved for the Day of Resurrection.”
[Sahih Muslim, Book 37, Number 6632]
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You are all wasting your time.....no-one in any of these threads is getting convinced to think otherwise.
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No one has 100% assurance of heaven. If you think so you are delusional.
We have hope and striving. Anyone who says he has 100% assurance he is going to heaven is more than likely not because of his arrogance and being a liar. Does such a person have a written consent and entry ticket straight from God given to their hand? No, only conjecture and wishful thinking. That's exactly what you have when you utter in wishful thinking "I am already saved".
Jews have a similar idea. They believe their race, just being Jewish they go to heaven, and that everyone else will 'perish'.
We all strive to enter heaven by God's mercy and our good deeds. Our deeds alone are not what enter us into heaven but God's mercy. However God is just and will judge people according to their good and bad deeds. Reward and punish justly. Otherwise where is justice?
Is a person who knows and a person who does not know equal? Is a person who is weak and a person who is strong in faith equal? Is a person who kills and rapes equal to one who gives charity and helps the meek? No. It's called justice and responsibility, accountability. Things your trinitarian doctrine does not teach by in fact teaching people just worship a man and you're good to go.
It's a pathetic and arrogant question asked by certain christians because as Muslims we will say no because no one has an absolute gaurantee but you'll come around and say oh but if you become a christian you will be saved and guaranteed. It's for the weak minded. You have nothing but conjecture and wishful thinking.
Only those who work hard towards piety and righteous and submit their will to the creator of all creation will enter heaven by His mercy. Who fear and love Him, obey him and obey his messengers.
You are stupid. For example - So many of your fellow muslims (since you failed to capitalize "Christian") think they will enter Heaven (and receive a sum of virgins) for killing infidels because their Imam told them so, I call PS, i.e. pork shit. This is just one of the things that separate some who follow Christ from many who follow Mohammed. The former die for their faith whereas the latter kill for theirs. You cannot kill in the name of Christ and be of Christ, but Mohammed demands it of his sheeple and like a good moron, you guys just keep on doing so.
You pathetic moron, you can't tread water let alone walk on it. But since shit floats, you keep popping up. Once more I shake the dust of you from my feet.
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You are stupid. For example - So many of your fellow muslims (since you failed to capitalize "Christian") think they will enter Heaven (and receive a sum of virgins) for killing infidels because their Imam told them so, I call PS, i.e. pork shit. This is just one of the things that separate some who follow Christ from many who follow Mohammed. The former die for their faith whereas the latter kill for theirs. You cannot kill in the name of Christ and be of Christ, but Mohammed demands it of his sheeple and like a good moron, you guys just keep on doing so.
You pathetic moron, you can't tread water let alone walk on it. But since shit floats, you keep popping up. Once more I shake the dust of you from my feet.
Ouch.
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Maybe god wasn't powerful enough to stop all the starvation in the world last year, but he did appear on numerous pieces of toast.
I think it's time we recognized that.
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Maybe god wasn't powerful enough to stop all the starvation in the world last year, but he did appear on numerous pieces of toast.
I think it's time we recognized that.
Or maybe God's fully empowered creation with ample resources at it's disposal to eradicate these issues on its own did nothing and then sat back and casually blamed God while eating their toast. Me personally, I know I didn't do enough.
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Lots of maybes, bro.
Of course, that's just feeding people. Let's not forget there are horrible diseases god created to kill children that we are powerless to stop.
god sure is funny sometimes.
LOL
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Lots of maybes, bro.
Of course, that's just feeding people. Let's not forget there are horrible diseases god created to kill children that we are powerless to stop.
god sure is funny sometimes.
LOL
Only one maybe actually.
Just finished a book about an Asiatic Christian missionary led by a group of Indian missionaries. In the decades they have worked to spread the gospel to the areas of the world ravaged by poverty, disease and starvation they have witnessed countless lives changes by Jesus Christ....lives saved and turned from the effects of sin thereby drastically reducing (and in some cases completely eliminating) poverty and disease in some small communities and villages. The problems in these areas of the world have by no means been eradicated, but the positive effects of spreading Christ's message (turning lives away from sin and its effects) has changed lives forever. The problem the missionaries face is funding...they've given their lives and everything they have to the cause of spreading the gospel of Christ. They've proven that the introduction of white, American missionaries in these areas of the world often does more harm that good. That said, they need support so that the indigenous believers in these areas called to missionary service can spread the gospel to their own people, but they simply need the monetary support of the affluent nations of the world. Many of us have been blessed and empowered by God....we possess the collective resources to solve our own issues and eradicate the effects of sin worldwide....we just don't.....and blame God.
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Absolutely I do not want you going to hell, but I also know I cannot lift the veil and lense of Islam from you....it is fully entrenched in who you are now and I have to accept that.
Question: Do you have assurance from Allah that your earthly works are enough to get you into his paradise? Are you doing enough and are you doing it correctly?
This is where you are wrong. Do you really think there is only one god? A christian god? How selfish. How can anyone think that any one religion is dominant? It doesn't exist.
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This is where you are wrong. Do you really think there is only one god? A christian god? How selfish. How can anyone think that any one religion is dominant? It doesn't exist.
Well, not everyones God can be God bro, obviously anyone who believes in God believes there is only one. I am really confused by what you meant with that question shizzo, I mean as opposed to maybe there was 2 Gods that created the universe simultaneously ??? ???