Author Topic: Afghanistan is now Obama’s war  (Read 417 times)

headhuntersix

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Afghanistan is now Obama’s war
« on: August 31, 2009, 02:21:29 PM »
Except for a pause to honour Senator Edward Kennedy, healthcare reform has dominated US news and comment for weeks. It is seen as the make-or-break challenge for Barack Obama’s administration. Yet soon it may look unimportant in comparison with an issue that the US public has barely seemed to notice: the war in Afghanistan.

Casualties there are mounting – this has been the deadliest month for US forces since the fighting began in 2001. The losses have attracted less attention in the US than British losses have in Britain, and pressure on the administration to pull out has been mild. But this will change. When it does, Mr Obama will longingly recall those carefree months debating healthcare.

Quietly, public opinion has already turned against the war. According to a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll, 51 per cent now say the war is not worth fighting. Among Democrats, seven out of 10 say that.

A recent Economist/YouGov poll found that only 32 per cent agree with sending more troops – something the army is expected to request imminently. To the question “What do you think will eventually happen?” came a response to thrill every Taliban fighter: 65 per cent said “The United States will withdraw without winning” and only 35 per cent “The United States will win”.

The issue has not yet come to the boil but Mr Obama’s position is as difficult as it could possibly be. This is now his war. He asserted ownership again only recently, calling the conflict for the hundredth time “a necessary war”, unlike his predecessor’s supposedly needless “war of choice” in Iraq.

Yet Mr Obama’s war, necessary or not, will be hard to win, and impossible without greater expense of lives and money. Withdrawal, meanwhile, involves great dangers of its own. To complete the president’s quandary, his rationale for the war is unconvincing and, as the polls confirm, his strongest opposition comes from his own party.

The Afghanistan war is necessary, says Mr Obama, to deny al-Qaeda a sanctuary. But analysts point out that al-Qaeda’s leadership is no longer there: it has moved to Pakistan. The ungoverned areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan are anyway not the only such regions in the world. Why put 68,000 troops in Afghanistan and leave other plausible terrorist havens, such as Somalia, to their own devices?

There are better reasons to fight this war – but they are more complicated than “fighting al-Qaeda” and harder to sell to a sceptical public. The first is that a Taliban victory might destabilise Pakistan, by strengthening that country’s own jihadists. Since Pakistan has nuclear weapons, this is an extremely dangerous prospect. The other is that letting the Taliban succeed in Afghanistan would abandon people the US and its allies have promised to defend. That may not be a dangerous prospect for the west, but it sure is a revolting one.

Admittedly, the case is not clear-cut: both of these rationales are disputable. Some argue that fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan inflames anti-western sentiment in Pakistan so much that it aids the insurgency there more than a withdrawal would. As for the Afghans we have promised to defend, what happens if the Afghans themselves want the US to leave?

The longer the US and its allies are there, the less popular they will become. With too few troops to achieve security on the ground, the enemy must be attacked by air – which means civilian casualties. Foreign soldiers and civilians whose first concern is their own security are not apt to win hearts and minds. Meanwhile, the US has underwritten a flawed election and in due course will be seen as standing behind a new government of doubtful legitimacy. None of these arguments is easy to dismiss.

In short, Afghanistan is a war of choice, and a finely balanced choice at that. Given the risks of withdrawal, I think Mr Obama is right not to quit just yet – but to improve his chances of success he must bring his ends and means into closer alignment.

A rule of thumb for counter-insurgency operations is that you need one soldier for every 50 inhabitants. For Afghanistan, this gets you to well over 500,000 troops even before you start taking account of the terrain. That number is unthinkable. Counter-insurgency is never quick even when it succeeds, and the US is impatient.

Gilles Dorronsoro of the Carnegie Endowment argued on this page on August 17 that limited US public support for the war was the key constraint – and that the mission’s goals must be narrowed accordingly. The latest polls, and reports that Mr Obama’s generals are being urged to rein back their request for more troops even before they have finished their assessment, suggest Mr Dorronsoro is right. His recommendation is to shore up the government, control strategic cities and roads, and secure buffer zones around them. Elsewhere, cede control to the other side and use force for defensive operations only.

These more limited goals would still be costly to achieve, and selling this strategy to the US public would still be difficult. Congress might not be much help either. Mr Obama and the Republicans have fallen out bitterly over healthcare and economic policy; the president cannot rely on their help on Afghanistan. Worse, unlike George W. Bush, he cannot count on his own party. Mr Obama is trying to do the right thing, but he will surely regret making this war his own
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Re: Afghanistan is now Obama’s war
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2009, 02:30:46 PM »
Lets see if the media gives ZERO an ounce of the negative attention on this that they did GWB. 

Of course they wont and all of a sudden are shunning Cindy Sheehan as she goes after ZERO over this. 

headhuntersix

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Re: Afghanistan is now Obama’s war
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2009, 02:31:53 PM »
There is a way to turn this around. We need to disband the Provincial reconstruction teams which u will have heard of or will hear about. The power in Afghanistan resides in the districts which are aligned more toward tribal lines. The local tribal leaders control their areas and we need to back them. Karzi has no real power. We need to create or back a tribal council that inturn will eventually elect a small group to run the country. By running I mean allowing for schools and other infrastructure to be built and maintained. They won't really function as a Western country but they will function. Going after AQA has become counter productive..we can't hold enough ground to ensure security. This tribal structure is backed by our SOF community but I'm not sure what we're doing now but Barry has made things worse, despite his best intentions (I don't blame him). The American people don't have the stomach for a long war.
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Re: Afghanistan is now Obama’s war
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2009, 02:35:45 PM »
Except for a pause to honour Senator Edward Kennedy, healthcare reform has dominated US news and comment for weeks. It is seen as the make-or-break challenge for Barack Obama’s administration. Yet soon it may look unimportant in comparison with an issue that the US public has barely seemed to notice: the war in Afghanistan.

Casualties there are mounting – this has been the deadliest month for US forces since the fighting began in 2001. The losses have attracted less attention in the US than British losses have in Britain, and pressure on the administration to pull out has been mild. But this will change. When it does, Mr Obama will longingly recall those carefree months debating healthcare.

Quietly, public opinion has already turned against the war. According to a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll, 51 per cent now say the war is not worth fighting. Among Democrats, seven out of 10 say that.

A recent Economist/YouGov poll found that only 32 per cent agree with sending more troops – something the army is expected to request imminently. To the question “What do you think will eventually happen?” came a response to thrill every Taliban fighter: 65 per cent said “The United States will withdraw without winning” and only 35 per cent “The United States will win”.

The issue has not yet come to the boil but Mr Obama’s position is as difficult as it could possibly be. This is now his war. He asserted ownership again only recently, calling the conflict for the hundredth time “a necessary war”, unlike his predecessor’s supposedly needless “war of choice” in Iraq.

Yet Mr Obama’s war, necessary or not, will be hard to win, and impossible without greater expense of lives and money. Withdrawal, meanwhile, involves great dangers of its own. To complete the president’s quandary, his rationale for the war is unconvincing and, as the polls confirm, his strongest opposition comes from his own party.

The Afghanistan war is necessary, says Mr Obama, to deny al-Qaeda a sanctuary. But analysts point out that al-Qaeda’s leadership is no longer there: it has moved to Pakistan. The ungoverned areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan are anyway not the only such regions in the world. Why put 68,000 troops in Afghanistan and leave other plausible terrorist havens, such as Somalia, to their own devices?

There are better reasons to fight this war – but they are more complicated than “fighting al-Qaeda” and harder to sell to a sceptical public. The first is that a Taliban victory might destabilise Pakistan, by strengthening that country’s own jihadists. Since Pakistan has nuclear weapons, this is an extremely dangerous prospect. The other is that letting the Taliban succeed in Afghanistan would abandon people the US and its allies have promised to defend. That may not be a dangerous prospect for the west, but it sure is a revolting one.

Admittedly, the case is not clear-cut: both of these rationales are disputable. Some argue that fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan inflames anti-western sentiment in Pakistan so much that it aids the insurgency there more than a withdrawal would. As for the Afghans we have promised to defend, what happens if the Afghans themselves want the US to leave?

The longer the US and its allies are there, the less popular they will become. With too few troops to achieve security on the ground, the enemy must be attacked by air – which means civilian casualties. Foreign soldiers and civilians whose first concern is their own security are not apt to win hearts and minds. Meanwhile, the US has underwritten a flawed election and in due course will be seen as standing behind a new government of doubtful legitimacy. None of these arguments is easy to dismiss.

In short, Afghanistan is a war of choice, and a finely balanced choice at that. Given the risks of withdrawal, I think Mr Obama is right not to quit just yet – but to improve his chances of success he must bring his ends and means into closer alignment.

A rule of thumb for counter-insurgency operations is that you need one soldier for every 50 inhabitants. For Afghanistan, this gets you to well over 500,000 troops even before you start taking account of the terrain. That number is unthinkable. Counter-insurgency is never quick even when it succeeds, and the US is impatient.

Gilles Dorronsoro of the Carnegie Endowment argued on this page on August 17 that limited US public support for the war was the key constraint – and that the mission’s goals must be narrowed accordingly. The latest polls, and reports that Mr Obama’s generals are being urged to rein back their request for more troops even before they have finished their assessment, suggest Mr Dorronsoro is right. His recommendation is to shore up the government, control strategic cities and roads, and secure buffer zones around them. Elsewhere, cede control to the other side and use force for defensive operations only.

These more limited goals would still be costly to achieve, and selling this strategy to the US public would still be difficult. Congress might not be much help either. Mr Obama and the Republicans have fallen out bitterly over healthcare and economic policy; the president cannot rely on their help on Afghanistan. Worse, unlike George W. Bush, he cannot count on his own party. Mr Obama is trying to do the right thing, but he will surely regret making this war his own



HAHAHA...AMAZING..

headhuntersix

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Re: Afghanistan is now Obama’s war
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2009, 02:36:09 PM »
The media has no idea what the war is about or its complexities. They don't imbed with the Marines, who are kicking ass in Helmand, they really don't care. Nobody will really debate this topic here because despite backing barry, they don't understand the war.
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Re: Afghanistan is now Obama’s war
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2009, 02:41:44 PM »
The media has no idea what the war is about or its complexities. They don't imbed with the Marines, who are kicking ass in Helmand, they really don't care. Nobody will really debate this topic here because despite backing barry, they don't understand the war.

My buddy who was over there told me insane shit. 

Sleeping in the freezing cold on the side of a mountain.  No electricity for miles around.  No lights, no food, bad rations.  Tribal killings. 

Snipers taking people out at huge distances.  Walking around with night vision since its pitch black at night. 

Sounded like hell.     

headhuntersix

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Re: Afghanistan is now Obama’s war
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 02:46:44 PM »
Yeah and then some asshole who is also cold and freezing is shooting at u....except if u stay alive u get to go back to the US. That asshole just stays in Afghanistan. The motivation levels are very different.
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Re: Afghanistan is now Obama’s war
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2009, 09:23:53 PM »
Quote
This tribal structure is backed by our SOF community but I'm not sure what we're doing now but Barry has made things worse, despite his best intentions (I don't blame him). The American people don't have the stomach for a long war.


Just out of curiosity how has Barry made things worse? Im not challenging you, Im just curious. You know Im no fan of Barry. But you seem to be very knowledgable about this stuff. Are you refering to his increase in troop levels? I remember the big argument that the Department of Defense was making under Bush is that they needed troop levels to stay low so that the tribes leaders would not be seen as a puppet of the US, so they would have more clout with the Afghans and that it was better to outsource the war to the tribesmen. Atleast in the beginning it seemed to work, considering that we kicked out the Taliban with an incredibally low amount of causalties, as opposed to the great Soviet and British armies that got thier asses kicked there.
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headhuntersix

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Re: Afghanistan is now Obama’s war
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2009, 11:42:03 AM »
I think u need to look at what Bush said and then what Bush really did. Bush said he wanted a democratic gov in Afghanistan and he helped build one. After that, they just went around supporting local public works projects, building schools and then went after the AQ guys that they could. There was some cross border stuff but it was pretty quiet. Then came the Surge in Iraq. We kicked AQ out of Iraq for the most part, we shut down their camps in Africa and other places and also shut down the cash and manpower flow. We know that this really hurt em from captured intell and letters etc. They decided to move back to Afghanistan beginning in late 2008. The border areas provide a safe haven and Pakistan wasn't doing much. They helped re arm and reignite the Taliban. Barry wants to send more troops, this really won't work. Its not Iraq. He has the right guy to win, but it will take more time and money then Barry is willing to give. Blaming Bush is ridiculous. We don't have a massive army and unlimited funds. Bush won an insurgency, not many countries can say that. he allowed guys like P4 and Orderno to use all available resources to include troops and academics to figure this crap out. People don't undrstand how hard it was to do what we did and what Bush did to support those guys.

Barry is failing because he's fighting a different war. A surge won't work. Stan spoke today and didn't mention more troops. It might take 6 montsh to figure out which way to go. Barry wants benchmarks and has decided to support Karzi despite the fact he might not have won. This country has no history of a central gov. They are better off with a large tribal council.
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