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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Nails on March 26, 2008, 03:53:31 PM
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Ok, long story short, i have very limited motion in my left wrist, no not from jacking off, but from a motorcycle accident when i was a teenager, So i cant really bench press heavy, i was never really a natural bencher, before my accident in high school i was about 180 and could only bench about 265 lbs.
I have gone up to about 305 lbs a few months ago while i was bulking up, but the pain in my wrist was getting worse, and my left shoulder started getting pain too.
Can i get away with just doing alot of heavy dumbell flys and maybe every now and then throw in some 8-12 rep bench press and still get my chest to grow thicker?? I can handle 90lb dumbells incline flys for reps of 8, but on flat i can maybe hit it with 80 cus if my wrist.
Anyone out there that doesnt bench much but can still build a massive chest with flys and light presses, if so whats your routine and reps like.
Thanks
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hey bro i was just wondering if youve ever tried doing any dips and how that felt on your wrist as they are a great movement...
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Im at about 235 lbs right now, and i can do weight dips with as much as 250 thats total with bodyweight and a dumbell. But anything heavier then that i tend to lean over to my right side causing me shoulder pain, and some times i get stings in my rear neck.
So i cant really go that heavy on dips, so i usually do dips for my tricepts but only using my body weight.
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im not speaking like im some great bencher or guru (with my heaviest bench to date is 275 at 205 body weight) but i have what i believe to be a pinched nerve in my left shoulder and it was getting bad so i had to completely stop BB pressing about a month ago and have gone strictly to DB and going pretty moderate with huge reps like 12-15 for 3 sets incline then 3 flat and i actually moved up five pounds in wieght so i wouldnt say that you cant but i think it has to do alot with the person...another thing i was doing after my presses was decline DB flyes or flat cable flyes both of which i love and at the end i just do a finisher with bodyweight dips usually for around 12-15 depending on the day...and because i have lightened the actual weight and allowed a greater ROM with the DB my shoulder pain has decreased immensely...another side note do you do any type of wrist curls or weighted roll ups (thats what i call them its where you get a broom handle or something and get a string long enough to reach the ground from shoulder height and tie one end to a weight and one end to the middle of the handle and walk the weight all the way up and then all the way back down...its an old move that my hockey coaches used to make us do..it burns like a guy...)to try and strengthen the injured wrist or is just something that is always going to be as it is?
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i dont think one has to do heavy benchpresses to get good chest development. there's a shitload of variations. maybe you can use machines, or dumbbells, or pre-exchaust the muscle, or use higher reps, shorter rest periods, more controlled slower movements etc or hit the chest on their own day, or twice a week. or whatever. :)
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I think wide grip dips, incline presses and lots of pushups are doing fine for me. I might go back to include flat DB bench at some point but I like inclines much better and my chest has not suffered at all.
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Flyes are one of the most underrated chest exercises.
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I do have a broom stick with a string and do that now and then and do wrist curls too, but can only bend my wrist down, i have no upward motion at all, for example i cant do pushups on my palms, i have to do them on my knuckles,
AS for the rep range i usually stick to about 6-10 range, so most of you with large chest do higher reps like 12-15 ??
I do those hammer strength machines but just dont really feel it, just feel like you can do too much weight on them and not feel it in the chest more in the shoulders. I do have a faily big chest, just wanted to see if anyone else out there is getting good results without heavy benches.
Oh and i usually do about 5 or 6 excersice for about 4 sets each. And do one body part a day.
Thanks alot playas
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I do have a broom stick with a string and do that now and then and do wrist curls too, but can only bend my wrist down, i have no upward motion at all, for example i cant do pushups on my palms, i have to do them on my knuckles,
AS for the rep range i usually stick to about 6-10 range, so most of you with large chest do higher reps like 12-15 ??
I do those hammer strength machines but just dont really feel it, just feel like you can do too much weight on them and not feel it in the chest more in the shoulders. I do have a faily big chest, just wanted to see if anyone else out there is getting good results without heavy benches.
Oh and i usually do about 5 or 6 excersice for about 4 sets each. And do one body part a day.
Thanks alot playas
Most in Arnold's day did moderate benches, lots of weighted dips and heavy flyes and those chest were the best over the years. Haney might be considered an exception to that statement but the chest is meant to do presses and flyes so I would do both. I don't do flyes right now because of the training I am doing but my chest never looked better when I did 5 sets of flat and incline flyes. I never felt too much of my development came from flat benches. Wide grip dips do kill the middle and lower chest for me though. Keep it up and let us know what happens.
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Steve Reeves used to take a couple of 80 pound dumbells, go in a corner and do chest... He required nothing else.
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I just guess i get caught up with the weight thing like many people do, Especially when i lift with my co worker and he handles 140's for reps of 8 and im twice his size. But guess I need try and metally recondition myself to just use reps in the 10-15 for a few months and see where it takes me.
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I just guess i get caught up with the weight thing like many people do, Especially when i lift with my co worker and he handles 140's for reps of 8 and im twice his size. But guess I need try and metally recondition myself to just use reps in the 10-15 for a few months and see where it takes me.
Very sorry to hear about your accident and wrist problem. I wouldn't worry too much about what your co-worker lifts. There will always be bigger and stronger dudes out there. Just focus on doing the very best you can within your limitations (the wrist factor apparently being a big limitation) and you'll be fine.
Though I'm kinda curious...if you're "twice the size" of your co-worker who handles the 140s for 8--very respectable lift IMO--, how much do you weigh and how much does he weigh?
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Contrary to pouplar beleif,pecs grow best for most people when 8-12 reps are performed.............so going heavier on benches is not a must for growth.
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First things first. I assume that you have seen a doctor and gone through some form of rehab on the wrist & neck. It does sound like you do have a pinched nerve in the neck/trap area, which in some cases may effect the wrist pain. Or even vice versa. Some of the Moto Cross, Quad and BMX riders I know try to shake off most injuries. Regret that after awhile but do not seem to mind walking with a limp for the rest of their lives. Off road and track bikes are very big out here in SoCal and anyone does not have to go far to be in the desert, mountains or find deep sand.
The BB BP, though a good exercise, is not alway the best for pec's. Do not know if you do this now, but try pushing up while the bar is resting on the heels of the hand. Will not stretch the palms and fingers back as far back as when doing a regular grip BP. The bar/weight in in direct line with the wrist it's self. Will need a good spotter if not use to this way of push pressing (this push style works great when doing military presses also). Putting stickem on the bar/heels of the hand can help with any slipping program. But the weight of the bar should hold it in place. Also change grip spacing when doing regular BP, like extra wide to the upper chest/neck. See if that relieves any wrist problem.
DB's would offer the best option for building pec mass, for most people. That and pec decks, where the resistance is on the elbows (superior leverage on the pec's themselves), not with the arms and hands way out away from the body. Cables are also goods, though the pecs lose a little with the direct leverage factor. Might try pre-exhaustion, with doing a set of pec decks (or cables) followed ,with no rest, a set of inclines or benches. You do not need extreme heavy weight to build any area of the body . Pure BB'ing does not really call for that. But you may need more direct time under tension (TUT) for potential muscle growth. Experienced BB'ers can make 10lbs feel like a 100 if they follow the correct workout plan.
I consider Dip's (weighted) as a better muscle builder for the whole chest area. But that is just my view. Change the grip/hand position around if you can. Knuckles forward or inverted, to a degree, if you have a "V" dipping bar. And if having a "V" bar than try extra wide to narrow and see what happens. Good Luck.
Side Bar: So true what you said about that smaller guy using 140's. See that all the time. But than again, do you want to be strong or look very strong. Perception is everything in BB'ing. Of course but for Colemen. Superior power and muscle mass, the best of both worlds.
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ive almost got my chest back from babyweights, and gay exersize selection....my chest routine is absolutly pathetic ( due to shoulder issues )
if i can get that mass back training like that, im sure u can grow, sayin u can still press to an extent... think giant sets and pre exhaust, make your chest scream, youl probly end up lookn better for it in the end
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I consider Dip's (weighted) as a better muscle builder for the whole chest area.
Heavy dips can VERY easily turn into major shoulder wreckers if you use sloppy form--and most people DO use sloppy form.
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Heavy dips can VERY easily turn into major shoulder wreckers if you use sloppy form--and most people DO use sloppy form.
That's why you let the morons fuck themselves up. You are right though, a dip should be a slow controlled movement. Most drop down real fast and bounce at the bottom. I actually find the Vbar to be the best these days but most places don't have one.
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some of my best size in chest came from stopping the heavy sets of presses of 5-8 and starting higher rep dumbbell presses in the 15 rep range.
Flys are great. Try a little lighter weight, with a slower speed.
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That's why you let the morons fuck themselves up. You are right though, a dip should be a slow controlled movement. Most drop down real fast and bounce at the bottom. I actually find the Vbar to be the best these days but most places don't have one.
just wondering how far down on your dips do you go? i was told to never go below your upper arm parallel reason being it was said it fucks up your shoulder and like you said to always go down controlled
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Very sorry to hear about your accident and wrist problem. I wouldn't worry too much about what your co-worker lifts. There will always be bigger and stronger dudes out there. Just focus on doing the very best you can within your limitations (the wrist factor apparently being a big limitation) and you'll be fine.
Though I'm kinda curious...if you're "twice the size" of your co-worker who handles the 140s for 8--very respectable lift IMO--, how much do you weigh and how much does he weigh?
Very true, but like everyone of us out there, its just my competitive nature to atleast try and go toe to toe with my boys when ever we workout together, just cant help it.
But i would say about 99% of the time i work out on my own.
As for my co-worker, his one the biggest asian dudes i know, about 6-2, about 200 lbs, but extreamly lean, hes one of those guys at the gym that only does chest and arms, whenever i work out with him he does alot of wide grip pull ups and heavy bench and dumbells presses, never does legs. I have seen him bench 4 plates, and he told me that he does nothing special, its just natural for him, but now its caught up to him cus he told me he doesnt bench anymore cus he has shoulder pain.
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First things first. I assume that you have seen a doctor and gone through some form of rehab on the wrist & neck. It does sound like you do have a pinched nerve in the neck/trap area, which in some cases may effect the wrist pain. Or even vice versa. Some of the Moto Cross, Quad and BMX riders I know try to shake off most injuries. Regret that after awhile but do not seem to mind walking with a limp for the rest of their lives. Off road and track bikes are very big out here in SoCal and anyone does not have to go far to be in the desert, mountains or find deep sand.
The BB BP, though a good exercise, is not alway the best for pec's. Do not know if you do this now, but try pushing up while the bar is resting on the heels of the hand. Will not stretch the palms and fingers back as far back as when doing a regular grip BP. The bar/weight in in direct line with the wrist it's self. Will need a good spotter if not use to this way of push pressing (this push style works great when doing military presses also). Putting stickem on the bar/heels of the hand can help with any slipping program. But the weight of the bar should hold it in place. Also change grip spacing when doing regular BP, like extra wide to the upper chest/neck. See if that relieves any wrist problem.
DB's would offer the best option for building pec mass, for most people. That and pec decks, where the resistance is on the elbows (superior leverage on the pec's themselves), not with the arms and hands way out away from the body. Cables are also goods, though the pecs lose a little with the direct leverage factor. Might try pre-exhaustion, with doing a set of pec decks (or cables) followed ,with no rest, a set of inclines or benches. You do not need extreme heavy weight to build any area of the body . Pure BB'ing does not really call for that. But you may need more direct time under tension (TUT) for potential muscle growth. Experienced BB'ers can make 10lbs feel like a 100 if they follow the correct workout plan.
I consider Dip's (weighted) as a better muscle builder for the whole chest area. But that is just my view. Change the grip/hand position around if you can. Knuckles forward or inverted, to a degree, if you have a "V" dipping bar. And if having a "V" bar than try extra wide to narrow and see what happens. Good Luck.
Side Bar: So true what you said about that smaller guy using 140's. See that all the time. But than again, do you want to be strong or look very strong. Perception is everything in BB'ing. Of course but for Colemen. Superior power and muscle mass, the best of both worlds.
As for the extent of the injury, I fell really hard off my motorcycle and landed on my left hand, didnt go to the doctor until i noticed my hand getting smaller, before that i just figured it would fix it self. Yea i was dumb and young. I ripped all the ligaments completely from the wrist, and shattered alot of the bones in there too, they basically reattached it back by drilling bones and placing lil achors to attach some wires and pins to allow me to move my hand and fingers, All that said i had a hard cast for 9 months and then a soft cast for 3 months, and a 16,000 wrist, good thing i had insurance!!!
I had that surgery along time ago when i was 19 now 29 never went back to the doctor to check it out cus i know they will tell me the cause of my pain in is due to lifting weights and that im doing more damage to it.
Ill go when im good and old and gave up being a man!
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That's why you let the morons fuck themselves up. You are right though, a dip should be a slow controlled movement. Most drop down real fast and bounce at the bottom. I actually find the Vbar to be the best these days but most places don't have one.
Seems that everyone likes dips for size, my sorry ballys gym only has the parallel dips no V style ones.
Do you usually dip on both chest and on tricep days for just use dips for soley for one bodypart??
What rep range do you use on dips?
Usually i go for 12 -8 when i can hit 12 at 5 sets i usually start to add dumbell weight. And i always do them slow and in a controlled fashion.
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Seems that everyone likes dips for size, my sorry ballys gym only has the parallel dips no V style ones.
Do you usually dip on both chest and on tricep days for just use dips for soley for one bodypart??
What rep range do you use on dips?
Usually i go for 12 -8 when i can hit 12 at 5 sets i usually start to add dumbell weight. And i always do them slow and in a controlled fashion.
I dip on chest and tricep day. I'll go weighted on tricep day, usually at least. For chest I'll stick with 10-15 reps. As for triceps I find that higher reps work better. I use the chains so it is not much weight added but it is just enough. I go 15-20 reps on those.
As for the question about depth, I usually go slightly below parallel but I am def more careful when it is chest day because of the wider grip. I find that going lower on the tricep version works the arm better. Honestly though, I just think of it as an upper body squat now because everything comes into it if you work hard enough. I just look at the gymansts working out next to me and their delts, chest and tris are big and cut so I follow suit.
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I dip on chest and tricep day. I'll go weighted on tricep day, usually at least. For chest I'll stick with 10-15 reps. As for triceps I find that higher reps work better. I use the chains so it is not much weight added but it is just enough. I go 15-20 reps on those.
As for the question about depth, I usually go slightly below parallel but I am def more careful when it is chest day because of the wider grip. I find that going lower on the tricep version works the arm better. Honestly though, I just think of it as an upper body squat now because everything comes into it if you work hard enough. I just look at the gymansts working out next to me and their delts, chest and tris are big and cut so I follow suit.
very well put...i just was told and programmed myself not to go lower then parallel...and i did them on both chest and arms day but sometimes onthe arms day i will do weighted bench dips which i also love but one could definetly not pull that off with limited mobility in the wrist...
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Very true, but like everyone of us out there, its just my competitive nature to atleast try and go toe to toe with my boys when ever we workout together, just cant help it.
But i would say about 99% of the time i work out on my own.
As for my co-worker, his one the biggest asian dudes i know, about 6-2, about 200 lbs, but extreamly lean, hes one of those guys at the gym that only does chest and arms, whenever i work out with him he does alot of wide grip pull ups and heavy bench and dumbells presses, never does legs. I have seen him bench 4 plates, and he told me that he does nothing special, its just natural for him, but now its caught up to him cus he told me he doesnt bench anymore cus he has shoulder pain.
Gotcha. IF your friend is going all the way down to the chest with those DB benches, as opposed to those 6 inches off the chest phony "presses" you see a lot of guys doing, then he's a pretty damn strong dude for someone his size. Especially considering most taller guys like him have pretty long arms.
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I have thrown out heavy presses. I now never go above 135lb. Slow negatives, REALLY FEELING ur chest and concentrating on moving the weight with ur chest rather than pushing with ur arms..its a completely different feeling ...very hard for me to explain. Drop ur rest time between sets, and every set to faliure. Since i started using this techniuqe my chest has grown more in 2 months than it has in 2 years of heavy presses.
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A nice alternative if your gym has shitty dipping bars is to do the old Scott Crosses that Larry used. Set up the cable cross station at a height so you can grab the handles from a kneeling position and do a crossver type motion in the same arc as you would a chest dip. When you really nail the ROM it's one of the best feelings you can ever experience in a chest workout.
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just an observation.
if your wrists AND shoulder were getting hurt from benching, it's possible that both your form and the weight you were using needed modified.
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My chest is definately a weaknwess for me. My routine has been based around compound moves. I have gotten stronger on eery one and although there has been a little improvement, i still think chest is big time weakness. So try the flyes/pek dek and see.
Dips also, i need to work on line at bottom of chest, and these seem to hit it nicely.
Side note....flyes or pek dek??
davie
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Side note....flyes or pek dek??
Flyes. One of the best chest exercises there is. Pec deck over flyes is like leg press over squats IMO.
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can u build chest mass on flyes? sure. not as much as with bench press, though.
can u build chest mass with light presses? well, depends what's light. i mean, to build size, u have to be progressively overloading ur muscles. that is, working upto a point of failure on ur last set, including enough sets, reps and having enough rest to repair the broken down fibres. takes time to get everything right.
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Flyes. One of the best chest exercises there is. Pec deck over flyes is like leg press over squats IMO.
close, but slightly off. flyes would be the leg press, pec deck the leg extension, BENCH is the squat!
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I like to keep flyes tight, bringing the elbows down to stretch, but not too far out. Like a fly/press combo. A fless. About 4-6" short of touching at top for continuous tension. Haven't had shoulder, elbow, or wrist probs in ages.