Author Topic: Isaac Newton:The Dark Heretic (Read 3929 times)

DK II · « **Reply #26 on:** March 31, 2011, 01:42:42 AM »

SMM would break the bear's spine before it could fall off the cliff, no matter what fucking color the bear is.

kiwiol · « **Reply #27 on:** March 31, 2011, 01:56:29 AM »

Quote from: DK II on March 31, 2011, 01:42:42 AM

SMM would break the bear's spine before it could fall off the cliff, no matter what fucking color the bear is.

We'll call this the Getbig answer/solution. Now someone needs to post the OTHER answer

kiwiol · « **Reply #28 on:** March 31, 2011, 02:02:25 AM »

Quote from: wes on March 31, 2011, 01:33:10 AM

Are you saying tbombz is working on the solution as we speak

DK II · « **Reply #29 on:** March 31, 2011, 02:06:58 AM »

Quote from: kiwiol on March 31, 2011, 02:02:25 AM

Are you saying tbombz is working on the solution as we speak

These UG labs really produce shitty gear....

Roger Bacon · « **Reply #30 on:** March 31, 2011, 02:58:38 AM »

Watched it, that was cool

Tapeworm · « **Reply #31 on:** March 31, 2011, 03:49:34 AM »

The bear is red. Ewww.

Tapeworm · « **Reply #32 on:** March 31, 2011, 03:50:55 AM »

Quote from: suckmymuscle on March 30, 2011, 10:32:11 AM

Newton was not merely a physicist; he was history's greatest polymath. He created integral calculus, co-created differential calculus with Leibniz, discovered the principles of light refraction, the laws of motion, the law of gravity, created his theory of light as particles that can function as waves, which is accepted to this day, etc. I don't think that there has ever been a person for whom the word "genius" applies more. Even Einstein regarded Newton as the greatest genius ever.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Not Christiaan Huygens?

lovemonkey · « **Reply #33 on:** March 31, 2011, 06:41:10 AM »

Quote from: kiwiol on March 30, 2011, 05:50:27 PM

When I was in school many, many years ago and a fullblown nerd, I took this test just for kicks and it was famous for being incredibly hard.

One of the questions in it was about/based on Newton's laws of motion - the 3 laws showing the relationship between distance, time, velocity and acceleration

v = u + at

s = ut + 1/2 at² and

v² = u² + 2as

The question was this - a man goes out to hunt, spots a bear and takes a shot at it. He misses, but pisses off the bear who starts chasing him. The man's gun gets jammed, so he runs, with the bear chasing him. He runs up a hill, which has a vertical ledge (so it's a right angle triangle shaped hill) and he goes all the way to the edge of the cliff and ducks when the bear jumps for him.

The bear goes over the edge and falls (and dies). They give you all the variables - the dimensions of the hill (both the height and the length of the hypotenuse), the initial velocity of the bear as it goes over the edge, it's final velocity when it hits the ground and the time taken for it's fall.

Then they ask you to find the colour of the bear.

How would you solve that? I'll give you the solution after a couple of guesses if you don't get it. Bear in mind that ALL the variables in the above 3 equations are already given

Just a wild guess but could it be that you have to adjust the gravity constant to make sense out of the equation with all the other variables given? So lets say you end up using the gravity constant of the north pole, it would have to be a polar bear.

dr.chimps · « **Reply #34 on:** March 31, 2011, 06:44:02 AM »

Isaac Newton: The Dark Heretic!? Is this the new re-booted Batman franchise?

Alex23 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 31, 2011, 11:55:47 AM »

newton was truly a genius... a game changer... also a Brother Freemason.

kiwiol · « **Reply #36 on:** March 31, 2011, 12:00:59 PM »

Quote from: lovemonkey on March 31, 2011, 06:41:10 AM

Just a wild guess but could it be that you have to adjust the gravity constant to make sense out of the equation with all the other variables given? So lets say you end up using the gravity constant of the north pole, it would have to be a polar bear.

Brilliant! And yes, that's how you solve it

Most people assume g, the acceleration due to gravity to be 9.8m/s² but in this problem, you shouldn't, since all the variables of the equation are given (which is the biggest clue - it means you are asked to calculate g, rather than assume it like you always do).

Earth's rotation causes a slight flattening at the poles and for it to bulge at the equator, so g's value varies between 9.78m/s² at the equator to 9.83m/s² at the poles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_of_Earth

Depending on the answer, the bear will therefore either be brown or white (no racist).

I almost gave it away by saying all the variables in the equations are given, but it made no sense in the test where that vital piece of info wasn't pointed out specifically, since it was a 10 mark question (out of 100) and everyone of us who took it thought it would require a fair bit of calculation / mathematics to figure it out, lol. Nobody got it right in the end and people groaned when they gave us the solution

Pat yourself in the back for figuring it out

lovemonkey · « **Reply #37 on:** March 31, 2011, 12:41:57 PM »

Quote from: kiwiol on March 31, 2011, 12:00:59 PM

Brilliant! And yes, that's how you solve it

Most people assume g, the acceleration due to gravity to be 9.8m/s² but in this problem, you shouldn't, since all the variables of the equation are given (which is the biggest clue - it means you are asked to calculate g, rather than assume it like you always do).

Earth's rotation causes a slight flattening at the poles and for it to bulge at the equator, so g's value varies between 9.78m/s² at the equator to 9.83m/s² at the poles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_of_Earth

Depending on the answer, the bear will therefore either be brown or white (no racist).

I almost gave it away by saying all the variables in the equations are given, but it made no sense in the test where that vital piece of info wasn't pointed out specifically, since it was a 10 mark question (out of 100) and everyone of us who took it thought it would require a fair bit of calculation / mathematics to figure it out, lol. Nobody got it right in the end and people groaned when they gave us the solution

Pat yourself in the back for figuring it out

Sweeeet! I actually feel kind of smart now

But the Nasser option is the correct one here, obviously.

lovemonkey · « **Reply #38 on:** March 31, 2011, 04:33:30 PM »

Btw kiwiol, do you happen to have the actual numbers available at the test?

I'm totally showing this problem to my physics teacher later.

kiwiol · « **Reply #39 on:** March 31, 2011, 04:51:03 PM »

Quote from: lovemonkey on March 31, 2011, 04:33:30 PM

Btw kiwiol, do you happen to have the actual numbers available at the test?

I'm totally showing this problem to my physics teacher later.

No, sorry. I took that test when I was around 12/13, so don't remember the specific values. It was the hardest "easy" question in the test, which is why I remember it. The rest of the stuff was more straightforward and about standard calculations / method of solving.

You can always work it backwards by assigning the values - shouldn't take more than 3-5 mins.

As you can imagine, if you simply present the values and pose the question, just about everyone gets so focused on the equations/calculations part that they fail to notice that g shouldn't be assumed. So make sure you word it accordingly, to throw your teacher off course, lol.

And if you want to be more deceiving, you could simply post the length of the base and hypotenuse of the hill, so the height (distance of the fall) of the hill isn't given - most people would work that out first, since it's the first thing they need to do and then get stuck

suckmymuscle · « **Reply #40 on:** March 31, 2011, 04:58:35 PM »

Kiwiol, I hadn't seen your problem. What a shame. Please post another one and let's see.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

kiwiol · « **Reply #41 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:00:36 PM »

Quote from: suckmymuscle on March 31, 2011, 04:58:35 PM

Kiwiol, I hadn't seen your problem. What a shame. Please post another one and let's see.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

I posted it yesterday when you were online and was hoping you'd see it, but you logged off soon after. Didn't expect lovemonkey to solve it so quickly, lol.

Will post more if I remember or come across more of this stuff - always great for a little mind sharpening.

suckmymuscle · « **Reply #42 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:04:45 PM »

Quote from: kiwiol on March 31, 2011, 05:00:36 PM

I posted it yesterday when you were online and was hoping you'd see it, but you logged off soon after. Didn't expect lovemonkey to solve it so quickly, lol.

Will post more if I remember or come across more of this stuff - always great for a little mind sharpening.

I wonder how Newton would do trying to solve your riddles...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

kiwiol · « **Reply #43 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:09:26 PM »

Quote from: suckmymuscle on March 31, 2011, 05:04:45 PM

I wonder how Newton would do trying to solve your riddles...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

How do you think Tesla compares with Newton? You think they were equally gifted or was Newton in a league of his own?

BTW, this is extremely nerdy, but what the hell - I remember reading this poem

Nature, and nature's laws lay hidden at night
God said, "Let Newton be" and everything was light

Someone later added the next 2 lines

But that wasn't all. The Devil howling, "Ho!
Let Einstein be" restored the status quo

suckmymuscle · « **Reply #44 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:35:33 PM »

Quote from: kiwiol on March 31, 2011, 05:09:26 PM

How do you think Tesla compares with Newton? You think they were equally gifted or was Newton in a league of his own?

They are not really comparable. Newton was a theoretician and a polymath; Tesla was an inventor primarilly. And of course Newton was superior both in terms of genius as well as contributions to Mankind.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Tapeworm · « **Reply #45 on:** April 01, 2011, 04:06:05 AM »

Quote from: kiwiol on March 31, 2011, 05:09:26 PM

How do you think Tesla compares with Newton? You think they were equally gifted or was Newton in a league of his own?

BTW, this is extremely nerdy, but what the hell - I remember reading this poem

Nature, and nature's laws lay hidden at night
God said, "Let Newton be" and everything was light

Someone later added the next 2 lines

But that wasn't all. The Devil howling, "Ho!
Let Einstein be" restored the status quo

While we're being nerds... I think it was Pope.

Also heard that Newton worked out his law of gravitation m * m/ d² as a young man during a rural holiday, avoiding a London plague outbreak, but he didn't have his books with him and used the wrong dimensions for the Earth, so he miscalculated its mass. "Close but no cigar" he figured and shoved his calculations into a drawer, where they remained for about 40 years until Hubble and a couple other famous dudes I can't remember were working along very similar lines (over a pint, as I heard it). They came to see Newton about it and he told them that he did it already, a long time ago, and it didn't really work. So he brought the calculations out of the drawer and I guess someone kindly pointed out that he had used the wrong number for the diameter of the Earth.

Lumberjack88 · « **Reply #46 on:** April 01, 2011, 09:53:32 AM »

It's basically this problem, right?

a is the acceleration that the gravity exercises upon the bear, s is spatum/distance from top of the cliff to bottom. v0 is initial velocity and v is end velocity. t is the time it takes the bear to reach the ground when he jumps off the cliff. As you said... every of these informations is already available.

From physics, we know that

s = v0*t+(g*t^2)/2

-> g = (2*s-2v0*t)/(t^2)

Now that we know what the gravitational acceleration is, we can also find out the location.

North Pole g: 9.832 m/s^2

Equatorial g: 9.780 m/s^2

Most bears live in the zone between north pole and equator, that means, in that case, the g is somewhere in between the north pole g and the equatorial g, but only the polar bear lives at the north pole. So depending on the input values we either get g=9.832 or something in between 9.780-9.832. I guess with given values, it's much closer to 9.832, which ultimately makes the bear white, otherwise it'd be hard to distinguish between the brown, grizzly and the black bear, because all of them live in the vicinity of similar latitudes.

**I see you already figured this one out

Concerning Newton and Tesla: Being a polymath back then was outstanding, but by today's standards, it would be impossible. Nowadays, everything's so specialized, you can't be a biomed expert, a top mathematician plus a renowned painter at the same time. Tesla was, in a way, a polymath, too. He was very good at math and physics, had some fantastic insights into electricity, knew many languages (Serbo-Croatian, Latin, Italian, French, German, and English) and was very much into literature, be it goethe or twain (the latter even being a very good friend of his). But what really sets Tesla apart, in my opinion, is that he was first and foremost an engineer, meaning someone who could put his ideas into reality. Many don't see how hard it is to make reality out of theory. Sure, Newton was great, but it was all theory, and it's good. But being a theoretical genius plus proving your genius with real life applications, that to this day remain used, is something that very few scientists throughout history can claim. For me, Tesla is the biggest genius. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

kiwiol · « **Reply #47 on:** April 01, 2011, 02:25:25 PM »

Quote from: Tapeworm on April 01, 2011, 04:06:05 AM

While we're being nerds... I think it was Pope.

Also heard that Newton worked out his law of gravitation m * m/ d² as a young man during a rural holiday, avoiding a London plague outbreak, but he didn't have his books with him and used the wrong dimensions for the Earth, so he miscalculated its mass. "Close but no cigar" he figured and shoved his calculations into a drawer, where they remained for about 40 years until Hubble and a couple other famous dudes I can't remember were working along very similar lines (over a pint, as I heard it). They came to see Newton about it and he told them that he did it already, a long time ago, and it didn't really work. So he brought the calculations out of the drawer and I guess someone kindly pointed out that he had used the wrong number for the diameter of the Earth.

Interesting, never heard that before. I need to brush up on these giants, 'cause it's been ages since I looked into this kinda stuff.

And I wonder what kind of eccentricities and craziness Newton was known for. From what I've seen, the greater the mind, the more the eccentricities and perversions - very thin line between genius and madness that often gets blurred and crossed. Would be interesting to see read about them, lol.

Quote from: Lumberjack88 on April 01, 2011, 09:53:32 AM

Concerning Newton and Tesla: Being a polymath back then was outstanding, but by today's standards, it would be impossible. Nowadays, everything's so specialized, you can't be a biomed expert, a top mathematician plus a renowned painter at the same time. Tesla was, in a way, a polymath, too. He was very good at math and physics, had some fantastic insights into electricity, knew many languages (Serbo-Croatian, Latin, Italian, French, German, and English) and was very much into literature, be it goethe or twain (the latter even being a very good friend of his). But what really sets Tesla apart, in my opinion, is that he was first and foremost an engineer, meaning someone who could put his ideas into reality. Many don't see how hard it is to make reality out of theory. Sure, Newton was great, but it was all theory, and it's good. But being a theoretical genius plus proving your genius with real life applications, that to this day remain used, is something that very few scientists throughout history can claim. For me, Tesla is the biggest genius. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

My thoughts exactly, which is why I asked that question. I agree with what SMM says regarding Newton's accomplishments, but people underestimate the amount of thought, frustration and work that goes into coming up with real world applications of theoretical models, which is ridiculously difficult.

I suppose it's apples vs oranges in a way. Who knows, if Tesla had dedicated his life to pure theory, he may have been on par with Newton or at least come close. We need both kinds of people to progress.

Donny · « **Reply #48 on:** April 02, 2011, 08:20:22 AM »

Very mind blowing...

lovemonkey · « **Reply #49 on:** April 04, 2011, 07:32:14 AM »

I have been having so much fun presenting that bear problem to teachers and classmates etc

Only one got it right so far... he's got a masters in biomedical engineering so he better get it right lol!

Author Topic: Isaac Newton:The Dark Heretic (Read 3929 times)

Alex23

suckmymuscle

suckmymuscle

suckmymuscle