Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: prizm on March 12, 2013, 03:12:57 AM
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Curious to see what he'll look like on stage next to some of the other pros. Show is shaping up to be 10x better than the belly classic. DJ is coaching him
(http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/579776_10152577627575121_466179464_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/64534_10152577631600121_103257947_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/735075_525552927496690_676002436_n.jpg)
(http://www.ifbb.com/images/2012_kuwait/Olympia%2011.jpg)
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Who is going to line up for the FIBO Power show?
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Curious to see what he'll look like on stage next to some of the other pros. Show is shaping up to be 10x better than the belly classic. DJ is coaching him
(http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/579776_10152577627575121_466179464_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/64534_10152577631600121_103257947_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/735075_525552927496690_676002436_n.jpg)
(http://www.ifbb.com/images/2012_kuwait/Olympia%2011.jpg)
He is a fucking monster with no gut! Hopefully Zack will show up so the two of them can stand next to each other on stage! Show should destroy the Arnold if everyone shows up in shape!
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BIG DUDE,,
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poke a needle in him and he will deflate
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A resurgence of Muhammad Salami next to him in clothes.
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Looks awfully short
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small waist. i hope he doesn't take the 'normal' pro route and try to add 20 pounds in an offseason. Add 3 pounds.
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small waist. i hope he doesn't take the 'normal' pro route and try to add 20 pounds in an offseason. Add 3 pounds.
He's supposedly 316lbs in the first two pics...no idea how accurate that is
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I saw the video of him stepping on the scale.. It was legit.. Tight waist.. It just goes to show ya you can be a mass monster and still have a decent waist if done right..
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he has only been training for 3 years
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some beasts
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For some reason, I do not think he will do well. Like he will be another hyped up dude...another Zach Khan, but actually steps on stage.
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The arabic bodybuilders are notorious for running insane (even by pro standards) doses of EQ all year round and suicidal amounts of diuretics pre contest.
This guy could have potential (biggest issue is that his back is all delts, same as wolf) but hell need to learn how to avoid burnout. Running crazy high doses of tren and eq all year long like many from that region will not do him any good in the long run.
Thats the main problem with a lot of the guys who come out of the Middle East and learned their bodybuilding strategies from gurus over there...they think test is garbage and use EQ as their test base instead. What they do not realize is that the bodybuilders with the most longevity and success in this sport know when to "just" run 3-4 grams of test and 2 grams of deca. Constant, excessive use of vet drugs all year long age you and burn you out like NOTHING else.
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DJ is coaching him
no, i'm not
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The arabic bodybuilders are notorious for running insane (even by pro standards) doses of EQ all year round and suicidal amounts of diuretics pre contest.
This guy could have potential (biggest issue is that his back is all delts, same as wolf) but hell need to learn how to avoid burnout. Running crazy high doses of tren and eq all year long like many from that region will not do him any good in the long run.
Thats the main problem with a lot of the guys who come out of the Middle East and learned their bodybuilding strategies from gurus over there...they think test is garbage and use EQ as their test base instead. What they do not realize is that the bodybuilders with the most longevity and success in this sport know when to "just" run 3-4 grams of test and 2 grams of deca. Constant, excessive use of vet drugs all year long age you and burn you out like NOTHING else.
burn you out in what ways specifically ? and with those insane doses of eq wudnt you need to be donating blood every few months at that rate ?
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burn you out in what ways specifically ? and with those insane doses of eq wudnt you need to be donating blood every few months at that rate ?
I am not sure of the exact science behind it...I dont think anyone is since there arent many peer reviewed long term studies on people taking large doses of vet drugs.
But the guys that run large doses of tren, eq, etc year round not only appear to age decades in just a few years, but their receptor response gets much more compromised and desensitized than those that cruise on test and deca...even very large doses of test and deca. Perhaps because of the extremely high androgen receptor affinity of the vet drugs? Again, I'd just be guessing but running these drugs in huge quantities without break WILL slow down your gains, age your body and organs much faster. Remember, none of these drugs were meant to be run by humans for long durations...their purpose is to quickly put muscles on animals...thats it.
Regarding giving blood on high doses of EQ...yes, some do - more SHOULD. Honestly, a lot of these middle eastern guys are crazy even by normal pro bb standards. This is the same crew that usually has a couple deaths pre contest due to diuretics...
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This guy is good ...
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This guy is good ...
you could say that...............
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(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/64534_10152577631600121_103257947_n.jpg)
Pic reminiscent of hallway Kiwi. Be interesting to see how he looks standing beside the big boys.
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great Arab genetics
will undoubtedly get overlooked because he is a non USA, non NPC athlete
great V taper , small waist and shoulder width
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you could say that...............
That shot is insane!
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BFF is correct about the high dosages of many middle eastern competitors.. And yes many do not like test mainly due to bloat ect.. They truly believe that test is inferior... That being said, eq is not different than any other anabolic steroid in most regards.. Animal receptors are no different than human receptors.. They work the same on both.. But in regards to eq, Vic Richards was a Hugh fan...
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great Arab genetics
will undoubtedly get overlooked because he is a non USA, non NPC athlete
great V taper , small waist and shoulder width
dorian didn't get overlooked, nor did Nasser, nor Clairmonte, nor did Feredov, nor did Ruhl, nor did Gunter, nor did the Arab Quadzilla.
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I am not sure of the exact science behind it...I dont think anyone is since there arent many peer reviewed long term studies on people taking large doses of vet drugs.
But the guys that run large doses of tren, eq, etc year round not only appear to age decades in just a few years, but their receptor response gets much more compromised and desensitized than those that cruise on test and deca...even very large doses of test and deca. Perhaps because of the extremely high androgen receptor affinity of the vet drugs? Again, I'd just be guessing but running these drugs in huge quantities without break WILL slow down your gains, age your body and organs much faster. Remember, none of these drugs were meant to be run by humans for long durations...their purpose is to quickly put muscles on animals...thats it.
Regarding giving blood on high doses of EQ...yes, some do - more SHOULD. Honestly, a lot of these middle eastern guys are crazy even by normal pro bb standards. This is the same crew that usually has a couple deaths pre contest due to diuretics...
So, am I to assume, BFG, that the middle easterners spout this look ( which is COMPLETELY different than their american counterparts ) due to little testosterone ( maybe no testosterone ) in the system, but with high amounts of eq as well as tren supplemented in it's place instead ??
Interesting.
Btw, BFG ... I've read EVERYTHING you have written. And I mean everything. I don't, however, remember you speaking much about eq. Not too get off-topic here, but is eq a good drug ?? I've always been told it does fuck all compared to other drugs ( deca, tren, primo, etc. ). A gentlemen in this thread ( LATS ) mentioned Vic Richards was big into eq. And we all know Vic was a fuckin' monster. Is there a correlation here regarding " size " of these bodybuilders. Is eq really that fuckin' good ?
As always, thank you for your time, sir. :)
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Looks awfully short
He is not. He is actually tall in the BB world.
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Yup. 5'10, to be exact. And with an on-stage weight of 283 lbs, I believe. Hahahaha. I don't know about you guys, but that's FUCKIN' INSANE ! WOW !
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I also used to talk to Vic years ago. He loved anabolics like EQ and anavar and hated test. Haney was also a big fan of EQ. Lats is correct no such thing as an animal steroid. I also hate test, the last two guys I helped compete I wouldn't let them use any at all.
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I also used to talk to Vic years ago. He loved anabolics like EQ and anavar and hated test. Haney was also a big fan of EQ. Lats is correct no such thing as an animal steroid. I also hate test, the last two guys I helped compete I wouldn't let them use any at all.
I need to look more into this. I definitely have a TON of respect for both you, LATS, BFG, and few others here ( VanB being the biggest one ).
So, why ( and I can say this since no one knows my real name, thank god ... lololol ) is it that the " gurus " I speak to ( and work with ) have me running test as my base ?? Why is test so damn popular ? It doesn't matter who I work with and / or talk to. Test is ALWAYS in my " gameplan ".
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I need to look more into this. I definitely have a TON of respect for both you, LATS, BFG, and few others here ( VanB being the biggest one ).
So, why ( and I can say this since no one knows my real name, thank god ... lololol ) is it that the " gurus " I speak to ( and work with ) have me running test as my base ?? Why is test so damn popular ? It doesn't matter who I work with and / or talk to. Test is ALWAYS in my " gameplan ".
Because most people play follow the leader. I also don't think you need slin at all and there is no need for GH.
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Good post !
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Because most people play follow the leader. I also don't think you need slin at all and there is no need for GH.
interesting take,,,i would take your word,,,the builds today other than genetic freaks like dex,cedric,rhoden,most have a ripped but smooth look especially relaxed ,guys like labrada,dex for example look hard just standing there ,,its all full as can be size and eat and not suffer to contest look today.
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weak back, similar to dj and strydom. might be a big delt thing. not able to manipulate the scapula or some other flexibility issue.
other than that, he's insanely huge
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Vic Richards never came off Tren
he was big into Tren,
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(http://oi48.tinypic.com/2z8ns51.jpg)
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calves need to come up too
hopefully he will get compared to some of the big names
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This guy is good!! Any more pics.... I was sure someone was gonna say 5' or something.... Shd be interesting!!
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work on those calves and will add another 10lbs to the frame
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(http://i.imgur.com/qjxvfxv.png)
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/24277_10152580675485121_1559855327_n.jpg)
(http://www.ifbb.com/images/2012_kuwait/Olympia%2010.jpg)
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his calves fucking suck for being as large as he is.
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his calves fucking suck for being as large as he is.
Remember, he hasn't been lifting that long...he has that "instant muscle" look to him...
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Yup. 5'10, to be exact. And with an on-stage weight of 283 lbs, I believe. Hahahaha. I don't know about you guys, but that's FUCKIN' INSANE ! WOW !
Wow, 5'10 even,. I stand corrected.
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Remember, he hasn't been lifting that long...he has that "instant muscle" look to him...
x2...even his abs cannot keep up with all the growth
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I also used to talk to Vic years ago. He loved anabolics like EQ and anavar and hated test. Haney was also a big fan of EQ. Lats is correct no such thing as an animal steroid. I also hate test, the last two guys I helped compete I wouldn't let them use any at all.
There are steroids made for cows and horses and there are steroids made for people.
I have no idea of why it works the way it does but every guy ive known whose run extremely large doses of EQ and tren year round burn end up burning out very fast and being unable to make big gains year after year.
You cant deny the fact that year round tren and EQ ages and beats your body much more than year round test.
Regarding the middle eastern competitors drugs...many use little to no test at all and run EQ, tren, primo and tons of orals year round. As I said, a lot of middle eastern gurus/coaches use EQ like a "test base" which results in crazy high doses of EQ..
I think EQ is a good drug but it requires long duration usage in the 1-2 gram range for best results. Ive always encouraged to wait to incorporate EQ (starting at 900mg) until one hits about 2.5-3 grams of test and 1.5+ grams of deca.
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Because most people play follow the leader. I also don't think you need slin at all and there is no need for GH.
I do agree that bodybuilder is a big game of copy-cat with drugs, training and diet but you cant dispute that mg for mg nothing beats test when you evaluate it based on:
1) ability to pack on muscle mass in a relatively short duration
2) overall weight gain ability
3) muscle mass retention in a major caloric deficit
4) relatively mild side effects
5) ability to run it for extremely long durations without health issues
6) metabolic increase
There are very few other drugs that you can stay huge on, keep making progress, keep staying lean while shoveling food and have relatively okay bloodwork and be able to stay on FOREVER.
I cant agree that there is no need for slin or GH...does it change physiques and arguably make them uglier? Yes. Is it necessary to be as big as possible? Yes.
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BFG, do you always recommend a test/deca base year round?
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I do agree that bodybuilder is a big game of copy-cat with drugs, training and diet but you cant dispute that mg for mg nothing beats test when you evaluate it based on:
1) ability to pack on muscle mass in a relatively short duration
2) overall weight gain ability
3) muscle mass retention in a major caloric deficit
4) relatively mild side effects
5) ability to run it for extremely long durations without health issues
6) metabolic increase
There are very few other drugs that you can stay huge on, keep making progress, keep staying lean while shoveling food and have relatively okay bloodwork and be able to stay on FOREVER.
I cant agree that there is no need for slin or GH...does it change physiques and arguably make them uglier? Yes. Is it necessary to be as big as possible? Yes.
NICE SUMMARY...
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He's supposedly 316lbs in the first two pics...no idea how accurate that is
Maybe he's carrying 120 phones from everyone in the gym in his pockets so they can train unencumbered?
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BFG, do you always recommend a test/deca base year round?
Yes. Dosage depends on the individual but "cruising" is always test and deca if you want maximum muscle mass retention as well as longevity in the sport.
The only time to ever come off deca would be pre contest. Even when blasting tren in the offseason, its really unnecessary to come off your deca base ("base" = "cruise amount"). Since large amounts of 19-nors can cause serious negative side effects with some people and the ancillaries like caber and prami honestly tend to be much worse than any amount of tren or deca, thats why i recommend keeping a mild (a term relative to the size of the bodybuilder) cruise base and raising and lowering doses with short esters. Far easier to gauge and control negative side effects.
For example
Cruise dose = 1 gram test, 600mg deca
Cruise weeks 1-4
1,000mg test c weekly
600mg deca weekly
BLAST weeks 5-19
1,000mg test c weekly
600mg deca weekly
200mg test prop ED
100mg NPP ED
Cruise weeks 20-25
1,000mg test c weekly
600mg deca weekly
BLAST weeks 26-40
1,000mg test c weekly
600mg deca weekly
125mg tren ace ED
200mg test prop ED
etc...
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(http://i.imgur.com/qjxvfxv.png)
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/24277_10152580675485121_1559855327_n.jpg)
(http://www.ifbb.com/images/2012_kuwait/Olympia%2010.jpg)
The two guys next to him ain't to shabby, would also be good IFBB Pros!
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About some drugs beeing better than others, i believe it depends on one's genetic.
I have no response to deca or winstrol but with test i have enormous lean gains.
Others get huge with abs on deca/winstrol combo.
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Sorry could not use quote button for some reason.
I do agree that bodybuilder is a big game of copy-cat with drugs, training and diet but you cant dispute that mg for mg nothing beats test when you evaluate it based on:
1) ability to pack on muscle mass in a relatively short duration
This applies to any anabolics steroid give or take. When you take away the water weight you have gained from test it certainly doesn't rank on top as far as lean muscle gains.
2) overall weight gain ability
Maybe, but why would anyone care about weight gain?
3) muscle mass retention in a major caloric deficit
I've had plenty of guys actually gain muscle while dieting and not using test.
4) relatively mild side effects
This is dose related as with any drug.
5) ability to run it for extremely long durations without health issues
I'll agree on this one, but that doesn't equate to being the best at building muscle
6) metabolic increase
Metabolic pertains to a whole range of biochemical processes so I am not sure what you are specifically implying to as far as test being superior as pertaining to other steroids.
There are very few other drugs that you can stay huge on, keep making progress, keep staying lean while shoveling food and have relatively okay bloodwork and be able to stay on FOREVER.
No one stays on forever and shoveling food is one of the major reasons these guys look and feel terrible.
I cant agree that there is no need for slin or GH...does it change physiques and arguably make them uglier? Yes. Is it necessary to be as big as possible? Yes.
You're right about this one. If you want to get your gut as big as possible and look just like these guys do today start taking massive amouints of slin and GH and start shoveling food.
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There are steroids made for cows and horses and there are steroids made for people.
I have no idea of why it works the way it does but every guy ive known whose run extremely large doses of EQ and tren year round burn end up burning out very fast and being unable to make big gains year after year.
You cant deny the fact that year round tren and EQ ages and beats your body much more than year round test.
Regarding the middle eastern competitors drugs...many use little to no test at all and run EQ, tren, primo and tons of orals year round. As I said, a lot of middle eastern gurus/coaches use EQ like a "test base" which results in crazy high doses of EQ..
I think EQ is a good drug but it requires long duration usage in the 1-2 gram range for best results. Ive always encouraged to wait to incorporate EQ (starting at 900mg) until one hits about 2.5-3 grams of test and 1.5+ grams of deca.
There are no steroids that are or have been made for animals that I am aware of. IF you have information to the contrary I would love to seee it. I'll agree that anyone that stays on tren year round is asking for trouble. EQ is a great drug, use as much a you can and with caution as with any other steroid and come off as need be. This is not rocket science and that is another mistake most "gurus" make. They over complicate the hell out of all this stuff.
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It seems like your response(s) is colored by an obvious disdain toward the current state of modern bb...
Anyway, there are always going to be anecdotal examples of "one guy I knew who gained muscle in a caloric deficit on 1 amp of winstrol every 30 days" - that doesn't speak to the norm.
5 grams of test vs 5 grams of trenbolone, compare the negative side effects.
Test, especially in high doses, is quite simply one of the best drugs to keep you lean. If you eat a shit diet you may look terrible due to the bloating and water retention but a few tabs of letro, some dyazide and you see how lean test keeps you. Hardness and lower bodyfat with water retention are so often confused and thahats why people get a negative idea of test.
Once again...why do you think people cruise on test and deca but not on tren? Or better yet, think of the guys you know who DO cruise on tren...they end up looking like shit and burn out fast. I can think of 2 pros specifically and countless amateurs that fit this criteria.
If you want to look like a fitness model then do crunches and take moderate doses of tren eq and primo. If you want to get huge take test deca and insulin.
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There are no steroids that are or have been made for animals that I am aware of. IF you have information to the contrary I would love to seee it. I'll agree that anyone that stays on tren year round is asking for trouble. EQ is a great drug, use as much a you can and with caution as with any other steroid and come off as need be. This is not rocket science and that is another mistake most "gurus" make. They over complicate the hell out of all this stuff.
the vets up here 'canada' sold plenty of juice to bodybuilders. you must mean that there were no specific formulations made for animals, and that they used the same chemicals as were made for humans?
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It seems like your response(s) is colored by an obvious disdain toward the current state of modern bb...
Anyway, there are always going to be anecdotal examples of "one guy I knew who gained muscle in a caloric deficit on 1 amp of winstrol every 30 days" - that doesn't speak to the norm.
5 grams of test vs 5 grams of trenbolone, compare the negative side effects.
Test, especially in high doses, is quite simply one of the best drugs to keep you lean. If you eat a shit diet you may look terrible due to the bloating and water retention but a few tabs of letro, some dyazide and you see how lean test keeps you. Hardness and lower bodyfat with water retention are so often confused and thahats why people get a negative idea of test.
Once again...why do you think people cruise on test and deca but not on tren? Or better yet, think of the guys you know who DO cruise on tren...they end up looking like shit and burn out fast. I can think of 2 pros specifically and countless amateurs that fit this criteria.
If you want to look like a fitness model then do crunches and take moderate doses of tren eq and primo. If you want to get huge take test deca and insulin.
The disdain I have as you call it has nothing to do with the facts and what current competitive BB has become. It is obvious that you are one of the "test is best" people and that is fine. If someone likes test then that's fine, but to say that is nothing more than your opinion. To say that test is with out a doubt the best muscle builder out there. well that's just plain wrong. I'm not going to compare test with any other drug as far as dose per dose sides etc since I believe that test is for the most part a crap drug so why would I compare it to anything?
As far as cruising well that's just another guru term that someone made up to yet again over complicate things. You are either on or off and if you lower your dose you stop growing period. Take half the amount then you keep half your gains relatively speaking so if you want to call if cruising then go ahead.
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the vets up here 'canada' sold plenty of juice to bodybuilders. you must mean that there were no specific formulations made for animals, and that they used the same chemicals as were made for humans?
Pretty much. There has been no specific chemical structure put together to my knowledge specifically for an animal, but there has been combinations of drugs put together for example cattle, but that is not what I am referring to.
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Pretty much. There has been no specific chemical structure put together to my knowledge specifically for an animal, but there has been combinations of drugs put together for example cattle, but that is not what I am referring to.
??? Tren is only sold for cows, EQ for horsed but lifters realized that humans could use it as well.
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??? Tren is only sold for cows, EQ for horsed but lifters realized that humans could use it as well.
Parabolin. Again, not what I am referring to.
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Funny that people bag on Gh19 but he also promoted low to no test. As for not needing GH, science has proven that adding GH to low test has a syngergistic effect that makes the test more effective. Now slin on other hand is shit but where would Heath be without it?
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Funny that people bag on Gh19 but he also promoted low to no test. As for not needing GH, science has proven that adding GH to low test has a syngergistic effect that makes the test more effective. Now slin on other hand is shit but where would Heath be without it?
Slin is not " shit ", my friend. I can assure you of that. As long as you don't abuse it, of course.
Btw, fairly certain Heath would still look pretty incredible. Guy is just genetically blessed. In that 1 % club, much like Ronnie and Dillet, for example.
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The disdain I have as you call it has nothing to do with the facts and what current competitive BB has become. It is obvious that you are one of the "test is best" people and that is fine. If someone likes test then that's fine, but to say that is nothing more than your opinion. To say that test is with out a doubt the best muscle builder out there. well that's just plain wrong. I'm not going to compare test with any other drug as far as dose per dose sides etc since I believe that test is for the most part a crap drug so why would I compare it to anything?
As far as cruising well that's just another guru term that someone made up to yet again over complicate things. You are either on or off and if you lower your dose you stop growing period. Take half the amount then you keep half your gains relatively speaking so if you want to call if cruising then go ahead.
I did not say test was the best muscle builder. I said that test is mg for mg the best drug when you evaluate it from all the aspects i listed.
While I appreciate your opinion that test is a "crap drug" you have been unable to refute my argument and so its pretty clear you are wrong, sorry.
also i am not sure what you are going on about with your assistance that there are no vet drugs. trenbolone and eq arent for people.
I am always welcome to hear differing opinions and love to discuss them but sometimes facts are facts.
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I did not say test was the best muscle builder. I said that test is mg for mg the best drug when you evaluate it from all the aspects i listed.
While I appreciate your opinion that test is a "crap drug" you have been unable to refute my argument and so its pretty clear you are wrong, sorry.
also i am not sure what you are going on about with your assistance that there are no vet drugs. trenbolone and eq arent for people.
I am always welcome to hear differing opinions and love to discuss them but sometimes facts are facts.
Nothing to refute as you have presented no facts just opinions. For example "trenbolone and eq arent for people" You are wrong about tren as parabolin is not a vet drug and If you say EQ is for animals then you are correct, but to say EQ was specifically chemically structured for animlas you are again wrong.
As for test I gave my opinions as have you. It's a crap drug " in my opinion" but my opinion is based on many years of training people.
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Didn't you "train" king kamali lol
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Didn't you "train" king kamali lol
This is what most people resort to when having no clear and rational response to refute someone. Seems like I have embarrassed you. ;D
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I recently started getting prepped by a guy who was runner up in the British Superheavyweights 3 years ago, the cycles he put me on were mainly test with about half the amount of another anabolic, it did work for myself and I gained nicely
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I recently started getting prepped by a guy who was runner up in the British Superheavyweights 3 years ago, the cycles he put me on were mainly test with about half the amount of another anabolic, it did work for myself and I gained nicely
I once trained a kid who won his weight class and used nothing but test all the way up to the show because that's all he had and could afford, but I can assure you he didn't win becuase he was using test. When I say test I mean nothing else and no AI's or even fat burners. Diet was the key to his conditioning.
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This is what most people resort to when having no clear and rational response to refute someone. Seems like I have embarrassed you. ;D
I asked because you introduced your credibility saying you have trained many people with these principles. Maybe kamali just needed some test?
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The issue on this thread is why test is so popular.. Test started use really started to be used heavily in the 8os.. Why? Much of it was the fact that it was so damn cheap.. The " bang for the buck" aspect is huge.. That being said, it does not translate into it being better.. But it is readily available and cheap.. Bloat translated into people's minds as size.. The added aggression in the gym was nice..
That being said, many faced issues.. Excessive bloat.. Libido issues once past hrt levels for many.. The added hassel of taking anti e meds to try and combat the estrogen related sides.. The increase in dht levels which led to prostate and hair loss issues.. ( you think all the shaved heads on the stage these days are a fashion statement? ) for many test is a bit of a hassel..
So test is diffinitely not a " must" in cycles.. Although I would recommend at least 150 Mgs of hrt level dosages in all cycles to keep the wood working.. And yes, if rami is working with Dennis James I would say that he is on grams of test.. No doubt.. But many in that region do not partake in the test is best mentality.. But most mass monsters do use excessive amounts of test without question.. Could they do it with out he huge dosages of test? Yes.. Easily ..but it is now ingrained in the trenches of the sport... Ask any dealer their top money maker... Test hands down..
But remember.. Many here love the look of the golden years.. Robby robinson ect.. Very little or no test by them.. Dbol.. Deca.. Winni... Para.. Mainly used by them..
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It's funny how someone can honestly say that test is a shit drug when thousands, maybe millions of people have used it and benifited from it. I personally have used eveyrthing and nothing for me compares to test/deca. Awkward statement that just has no base. As far as eq and tren, they are animal steroids, that's a fact and can not be disputed. I don't understand why people claim specific things about steroids when people are obviously seeing results from specific hormones. I grow on test, and maintain the most muscle on test, so with that said there is no argument as to the overall abilities of test.
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Nothing to refute as you have presented no facts just opinions. For example "trenbolone and eq arent for people" You are wrong about tren as parabolin is not a vet drug and If you say EQ is for animals then you are correct, but to say EQ was specifically chemically structured for animlas you are again wrong.
As for test I gave my opinions as have you. It's a crap drug " in my opinion" but my opinion is based on many years of training people.
My personal experience says keep the test prop all the way up to the show if you want to keep that popping out look while being lean.tren is great by all means but using it more than 8 week out never make any sense to me.it works way better below 7% body fat.
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Bywhatevermeans.. I don't think anyone is saying test has no benefit.. Hell just about everyone uses it.. What I am saying along wih disgusted is that you can gain without test by using other compounds.. Some don't feel good on large dosages of test...
As for tren being a animal drug.. No.. Parabolan is a tren ester... It as produced initially in France for human use.. Not animals... Eq , yes is a vet drug but reacts no different in the human body than any other steroid.. The receptors react the same..
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The issue on this thread is why test is so popular.. Test started use really started to be used heavily in the 8os.. Why? Much of it was the fact that it was so damn cheap.. The " bang for the buck" aspect is huge.. That being said, it does not translate into it being better.. But it is readily available and cheap.. Bloat translated into people's minds as size.. The added aggression in the gym was nice..
That being said, many faced issues.. Excessive bloat.. Libido issues once past hrt levels for many.. The added hassel of taking anti e meds to try and combat the estrogen related sides.. The increase in dht levels which led to prostate and hair loss issues.. ( you think all the shaved heads on the stage these days are a fashion statement? ) for many test is a bit of a hassel..
So test is diffinitely not a " must" in cycles.. Although I would recommend at least 150 Mgs of hrt level dosages in all cycles to keep the wood working.. And yes, if rami is working with Dennis James I would say that he is on grams of test.. No doubt.. But many in that region do not partake in the test is best mentality.. But most mass monsters do use excessive amounts of test without question.. Could they do it with out he huge dosages of test? Yes.. Easily ..but it is now ingrained in the trenches of the sport... Ask any dealer their top money maker... Test hands down..
But remember.. Many here love the look of the golden years.. Robby robinson ect.. Very little or no test by them.. Dbol.. Deca.. Winni... Para.. Mainly used by them..
SOLID POST !
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TTT
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you could say that...............
I think i did ...
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Seems like I read somewhere that EQ was briefly used/tested in humans in the 60s or something. May have been a post by flinstones..maybe he'll read this and chime in..memory is foggy on that one
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prizm?
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prizm?
???
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8)
(http://www.ozgameshop.com/product_images/posters/music/bands/pink_floyd_prism_maxi_poster_raw.jpg)
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(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a282/deetrakt/HDGR/h-MikeErgas.jpg)
Ergas
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(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMKUSLQ5hQlQkOkO3aGbcr3dEO8MhPQshV8WaQlxOOgAOpZG-m)
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(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a282/deetrakt/HDGR/h-MikeErgas.jpg)
Ergas
ergas would have made good 212 what happened to him,,great legs,thick dude ,,short but good overall build..
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i think his kidneys failed
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Its Victors show but this guy could give him a run i guess ................Maybe even Juan Morel
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Seems like I read somewhere that EQ was briefly used/tested in humans in the 60s or something. May have been a post by flinstones..maybe he'll read this and chime in..memory is foggy on that one
It was actually being made as an injectable version of dbol, but never was released as such.
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(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a282/deetrakt/HDGR/h-MikeErgas.jpg)
Ergas
DA FUQ ??? :-\
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Question for Disgusted cause you totally lost me here when you said gh is not necessary, not necessary for what? the average gym rat? You can not possibly be suggesting that it is possible at the Olympia level to be competitive without gh, no way this is what you are saying right ???
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Eq issues are not because of being a vet compound.. It is because of its affinity to raise red blood cell count..all gear raised RBI but eq seems to do this at a higher level.. So running large dosages of eq over a long period of time can be much harsher on the system as mentioned.. But it has nothing to do with it being a vet compound.. As for hgh being needed to compete today I would say at lower level no... But at Olympia level it will be needed..
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Question for Disgusted cause you totally lost me here when you said gh is not necessary, not necessary for what? the average gym rat? You can not possibly be suggesting that it is possible at the Olympia level to be competitive without gh, no way this is what you are saying right ???
I'm curious as well. In fact, could a person in the heavies / super-heavies even turn pro without gh, today ?? I'm skeptical.
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I'm curious as well. In fact, could a person in the heavies / super-heavies even turn pro without gh, today ?? I'm skeptical.
Honestly, even that scenario is highly unlikely, but even if that were possible it is still a far way up the Olympia stage. I means digusted is a good dude and knows his shit for sure but that gh comment is a shocker, he is the last person on earth i thought would make such comment.
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I have to stickup for disgusted.. There have been numerous national level winners (amatuer) that have done so without hgh.. Some of these guys are barely able to afford all the food and gear let alone hgh ect.. Now to get much further into the pro ranks it is "needed"..
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I have to stickup for disgusted.. There have been numerous national level winners (amatuer) that have done so without hgh.. Some of these guys are barely able to afford all the food and gear let alone hgh ect.. Now to get much further into the pro ranks it is "needed"..
Ya I know a few who have won nationals without hgh throughout the years but that is definitely only a few out of many certainly far from in between, disgusted's words were ''hgh is not needed" ....
Now this can mean anything, I don't want to put words in his mouth, so was he referring to not needed for the average gym rat? or was it in general all the way up to Olympia level, cause if so that would be something someone who is incredibly naive would say and I am shocked if disgusted would attached that comment to the Olympia guys cause disgusted is someone I looked up to here and is far superior in knowledge then myself, but making a comment like that is NOT KEEPING IT REAL, if and only if he was implying that gh is not needed for the Olympia guys.
Like I said I love the guy but the truth is the truth and reality is reality and the truest words in the world are the Olympia guys need gh to be competitive, this is not even up for debate.
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Question for Disgusted cause you totally lost me here when you said gh is not necessary, not necessary for what? the average gym rat? You can not possibly be suggesting that it is possible at the Olympia level to be competitive without gh, no way this is what you are saying right ???
Hang on I'll clarify in depth.
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OK I did say that GH is not needed, but that's a pretty general statement I'll admit so sorry for not clarifying what I meant by that. I've known plenty of guys who have built awesome looking physiques without GH and a few who have won shows without GH and slin too and they done so with just basic steroids and beat guys who have been on everything under the sun. Why? well there are a lot of factors like training genetics, but at that levels it's usually contest peaking that makes or breaks the win even over and above drug use. Now, I am specifically talking about competition level here. As far as being able to build an "Olympia" type physique with GH? Of course you can, but it depends on what exactly one means by that. Like I have said before, if you want to compete with the guys today then do what they are doing, but if you want to look like the guys back in the 70's and 80's then don't. Thing is I see guys using so many different drugs that these guys never even had access to and for some reason no one seems to be able to come close to the look of anyone back in the 70's let alone today. Does anyone on Getbig want to turn pro or even have the genetics and if you do how bout the money issue? Who here can afford 30 iu's daily or more of GH?
Look at every guy who has won the Olympia over the last many years and tell me how many of them never used GH at all or at least to the degree that these guys are using it today. Now, out of the ones who haven't how many here can post a pic showing me showing the level of development that these guys have had just using basic steroids and NOTHING else?? Not put anyone down, but I'm guessing not many if any at all. A lot of guys make fun of how these guys look today with their huge guts so I would guess that not too many here want to look like them anyway. If one is using GH at a therapeutic dose of 2 or so IU's daily then you are not getting much as far as the size benefit. In fact if you aren't using at least 10 to 15 (15 min in my opinion) then all you are doing is burning some fat and if that's what you want to do then stop eating all this unnecessary food!!
I'm not naive, I know people who are don't even compete and they use 15, 20 and even 30 IU's of GH so I know the benefits of it and what it does, but is it really worth it or necessary just to look great walking around in everyday life? I guess the answer to that is, it's up to the individual. I'm open to any questions no matter what they are so feel free to ask.
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dead or in hospital for life by 40.
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OK I did say that GH is not needed, but that's a pretty general statement I'll admit so sorry for not clarifying what I meant by that. I've known plenty of guys who have built awesome looking physiques without GH and a few who have won shows without GH and slin too and they done so with just basic steroids and beat guys who have been on everything under the sun. Why? well there are a lot of factors like training genetics, but at that levels it's usually contest peaking that makes or breaks the win even over and above drug use. Now, I am specifically talking about competition level here. As far as being able to build an "Olympia" type physique with GH? Of course you can, but it depends on what exactly one means by that. Like I have said before, if you want to compete with the guys today then do what they are doing, but if you want to look like the guys back in the 70's and 80's then don't. Thing is I see guys using so many different drugs that these guys never even had access to and for some reason no one seems to be able to come close to the look of anyone back in the 70's let alone today. Does anyone on Getbig want to turn pro or even have the genetics and if you do how bout the money issue? Who here can afford 30 iu's daily or more of GH?
Look at every guy who has won the Olympia over the last many years and tell me how many of them never used GH at all or at least to the degree that these guys are using it today. Now, out of the ones who haven't how many here can post a pic showing me showing the level of development that these guys have had just using basic steroids and NOTHING else?? Not put anyone down, but I'm guessing not many if any at all. A lot of guys make fun of how these guys look today with their huge guts so I would guess that not too many here want to look like them anyway. If one is using GH at a therapeutic dose of 2 or so IU's daily then you are not getting much as far as the size benefit. In fact if you aren't using at least 10 to 15 (15 min in my opinion) then all you are doing is burning some fat and if that's what you want to do then stop eating all this unnecessary food!!
I'm not naive, I know people who are don't even compete and they use 15, 20 and even 30 IU's of GH so I know the benefits of it and what it does, but is it really worth it or necessary just to look great walking around in everyday life? I guess the answer to that is, it's up to the individual. I'm open to any questions no matter what they are so feel free to ask.
Fair enough, I knew you would deliver bro ;),..., It was just a shocker the way you said it but I know exactly what you mean and yes there are guys with juice alone that wipe the floor with some freaks doing 30 iu daily, absolutely agree. Thanks for the explanation.
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OK I did say that GH is not needed, but that's a pretty general statement I'll admit so sorry for not clarifying what I meant by that. I've known plenty of guys who have built awesome looking physiques without GH and a few who have won shows without GH and slin too and they done so with just basic steroids and beat guys who have been on everything under the sun. Why? well there are a lot of factors like training genetics, but at that levels it's usually contest peaking that makes or breaks the win even over and above drug use. Now, I am specifically talking about competition level here. As far as being able to build an "Olympia" type physique with GH? Of course you can, but it depends on what exactly one means by that. Like I have said before, if you want to compete with the guys today then do what they are doing, but if you want to look like the guys back in the 70's and 80's then don't. Thing is I see guys using so many different drugs that these guys never even had access to and for some reason no one seems to be able to come close to the look of anyone back in the 70's let alone today. Does anyone on Getbig want to turn pro or even have the genetics and if you do how bout the money issue? Who here can afford 30 iu's daily or more of GH?
Look at every guy who has won the Olympia over the last many years and tell me how many of them never used GH at all or at least to the degree that these guys are using it today. Now, out of the ones who haven't how many here can post a pic showing me showing the level of development that these guys have had just using basic steroids and NOTHING else?? Not put anyone down, but I'm guessing not many if any at all. A lot of guys make fun of how these guys look today with their huge guts so I would guess that not too many here want to look like them anyway. If one is using GH at a therapeutic dose of 2 or so IU's daily then you are not getting much as far as the size benefit. In fact if you aren't using at least 10 to 15 (15 min in my opinion) then all you are doing is burning some fat and if that's what you want to do then stop eating all this unnecessary food!!
I'm not naive, I know people who are don't even compete and they use 15, 20 and even 30 IU's of GH so I know the benefits of it and what it does, but is it really worth it or necessary just to look great walking around in everyday life? I guess the answer to that is, it's up to the individual. I'm open to any questions no matter what they are so feel free to ask.
when you say 15 iu's minimum, you are talking about chinese, right? 6 to 9 iu's of serostim a day does a hell of a lot more than just burn fat.
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If one is using GH at a therapeutic dose of 2 or so IU's daily then you are not getting much as far as the size benefit.
But apart from the gut, the competitors of today are no bigger than the competitors of the 90s.
Heavy GH use as opposed to moderate use isnt building any more muscle overall.
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when you say 15 iu's minimum, you are talking about chinese, right? 6 to 9 iu's of serostim a day does a hell of a lot more than just burn fat.
Some better than others due to quality so yes as a general figure, but would never do less than 10 of high quality if money and hook up was not an issue.
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But apart from the gut, the competitors of today are no bigger than the competitors of the 90s.
Heavy GH use as opposed to moderate use isnt building any more muscle overall.
Bingo!! Photoshop their guts out and they prob look worse. So again the question is how is GH making a physique look better?
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i always had the same impression.
very good thread.
in the op,the guy looks like an absolute monster,in a positve way.
and then notorious bfg jumps in and knows what he takes.sure.
thanks disgusted, youre my absolute favorit poster as far nutrition, trainind and gear goes,if it means anything to you.
It does thanks.
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ah cool.
i have some question.the black steroid book claims that eq has about half the estrogen conversion rate compared to test.
so, if one uses say 500mg test weekly, hed get the same estrogen sides as the guy who runs 1000mg eq weekly, is that right?
do you think the results would be about the same anyway?
will eq alone cause limp dick?
ive done eq before, but mixed it with everything else, so couldnt tell the effects, what was from what.
oh and another question, do you think test propionate on same diet and dosage will cause less water retention than test e?
thanks
I'm not so sure I agree with that at all. I would have to see an actual study. Also, remember that as you increase dosages things may change. For example, A study may be done comparing say 200 mgs of test with 400 mgs of EQ, but would another study with the same drugs but at different dosages yield the same results comparatively to the first study? I personally wouldn't think so.
Lets say one is doing 1000 mgs of test and another 500 EQ. If these two guys would both keep upping the dose and lets say eventually one is up to 4000 mgs a week of test and the other 2000 mgs a week of EQ. Do you think that the results are just going to double or triple equally for both?
Never personally known of EQ causing limp dick.
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hm, very good point.
but overall, do you think eq causes less estrogen sides than test?
and what about the test prop to e comaparo.
Wops forgot sorry. Yes in real life application EQ less estrogen sides. Now to compare any test if all being equal and I am talking the same blood level which is tuff to accomplish because of the ester weight release time and injection frequency then I think all are pretty much the same. The higher the blood level the more water retention to a degree.
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Disgusted, have there been any studies on bodybuilders on what effects certain combos or dosages have on the individuals? Like if they monitored what Bber X took vs Bber Y, when getting ready for a contest.
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thanks disgusted, youre my absolute favorit poster as far nutrition, trainind and gear goes,if it means anything to you.
X2 Jim's knowledge is indispensable for BB's of all levels and is laced with basic commonsense - a great asset to GB - along with VanB, OTH,Dustin,Lats,Overload and many others who's names are not at the forefront of my mind right now ;D
BFG offers some great insights also, especially more advanced and whats happening at the higher levels in terms of drug use and is/would be interesting to those that find this enlightening.
Another good thing about Jim is he enjoys my art pics ;D
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/192caa268cc9ae92d30dfe99938e18d4/tumblr_mimho9iI5V1r600xqo1_500.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/2c48207cfa32c2cd3a468f58af8e7fd4/tumblr_mjrfjmUm0z1qg7xwvo1_500.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/f0f73404e0c1c8e19b1045b366de1f45/tumblr_mfzvrnf3lh1rbqdhmo1_500.jpg)
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Disgusted, have there been any studies on bodybuilders on what effects certain combos or dosages have on the individuals? Like if they monitored what Bber X took vs Bber Y, when getting ready for a contest.
Not that I am aware of but years ago in Muscle Digest I recall blood work being done before and after on a few guys in off season compared to competition dieting. I remember the only thing that changed was diet. Blood proiles were much better during precontest diet with more drugs.
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X2 Jim's knowledge is indispensable for BB's of all levels and is laced with basic commonsense - a great asset to GB - along with VanB, OTH,Dustin,Lats,Overload and many others who's names are not at the forefront of my mind right now ;D
BFG offers some great insights also, especially more advanced and whats happening at the higher levels in terms of drug use and is/would be interesting to those that find this enlightening.
Another good thing about Jim is he enjoys my art pics ;D
Yes I do! ;D
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disgusted
can u please shed light on what Kamali changed to go from his 2001 look to the 2009 look?
i know you did help him with his prep inthe late 90's, 2000's?
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small guy
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small guy
Is that what we call wide clavicles? Damn